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MacRumors
Feb 23, 2004, 08:25 AM
Updates to Apple's "pro" line of computers -- the PowerMac and PowerBook -- remain two of the most anticipated hardware updates.

IBM's new PowerPC 970FX provides hope for upcoming updates for both product lines. While information on the web related to the PowerPC 970FX was relatively sparse after IBM's presentations at ISSCC last week... this Japanese report (http://pcweb.mycom.co.jp/articles/2004/02/18/isscc1/) provides some basic specs with speeds ranging from 1.3GHz - 2.5GHz, and this German report (http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/44737) offers some details of the PowerTune technology from IBM. The PowerTune technology is reportedly capable of stepping down speed to 1/2 or 1/4 of the processor's top speed, thus reducing the power consumption.

The most recent hints (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/02/20040216084436.shtml) have pointed that PowerMacs will not be updated in February... but the new processor suggests that the new machines will top out at 2.5GHz when they do arrive.

Meanwhile, whispers have suggested that Apple is continuing to investigate liquid-based cooling techniques for both PowerMac and PowerBook lines. Whether/When this technology will be delivered as a shipping product is unclear.

AmigoMac
Feb 23, 2004, 08:27 AM
I'm waiting... come on Steve, challenge my cerdit card! ;)

StudioGuy
Feb 23, 2004, 08:28 AM
And, if they do update them before the Summer, I wonder if the "Pro Audio" noise issues that have been discussed at length regarding the dual units will be solved.

That's stopping me from buying a G5 at all. :(

NicoMan
Feb 23, 2004, 08:32 AM
Another week, another Powerbook rumor.

Oh well...

(fingers crossed)

spinko
Feb 23, 2004, 08:32 AM
the powerbooks to G5 soon, I'll be getting a VAIO

:D

hvfsl
Feb 23, 2004, 08:32 AM
I wont be upgrading until the G5 PowerBooks come out. I have the money ready to buy one, I just need Apple to release them.

Dr. Distortion
Feb 23, 2004, 08:34 AM
Nice rumor recap Arn! Let's hope that these new products Apple is undoubtedly working on get announced soon... a G5 PowerBook is all I'm waiting for... and I love to see how the performance gap between Apple/IBM and WinTel increases steadily :)

-Dr. D.

NicoMan
Feb 23, 2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by AmigoMac
I'm waiting... come on Steve, challenge my cerdit card! ;)
No time for spell-checking when you are trying to be the first post...

:)

Photorun
Feb 23, 2004, 08:37 AM
This week... another vague rumor, tune in next week for... more vague rumors. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict, by the end of 2004, Apple will have one of their pieces of hardware quite possibly maybe slightly faster in speed than it is as of today... but don't hold me to it.

wordmunger
Feb 23, 2004, 08:39 AM
Anyone ever come up with a human translation of that Japanese article? I didn't see one posted on this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61121&highlight=translation).

(For those too lazy to search, here's the link to the human translation (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60968&highlight=translation) of the German article)

NicoMan
Feb 23, 2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
Nice rumor recap Arn! Let's hope that these new products Apple is undoubtedly working on get announced soon... a G5 PowerBook is all I'm waiting for... and I love to see how the performance gap between Apple/IBM and WinTel increases steadily :)

-Dr. D.

Somehow I'm hoping that this makes it to the first page because of more information/rumor received by Arn to confirm this...

centauratlas
Feb 23, 2004, 08:39 AM
I think that the reason we haven't seen the updated PM G5s (and perhaps PB G5s) is IBM.

Take note of the following facts:
1. Apple's xserve G5s are shipping in "6-8 weeks".

2. InfoWorld quotes an IBM spokesman, Feb 13, 2004 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/04...bmblends_1.html) that says "Samples of the chip have already shipped, and production volumes are increasing." Note, they are producing, but if they were producing at full capacity they'd have said so and not used the language they did.

3. There was an article here (http://www.reed-electronics.com/ele...mp;doc_id=30982) that said this:
"IBM is about to deliver its very first volume production of an SOC on 90nm, said Reeves. This will be a design for Apple."
Note that it says "about to".


So, I think it is safe to say they are producing them in some volume, but it is not yet enough to handle xserve G5s, PM G5s (updated with the 970fx of course), and PB G5s all at once.

Thus, I would expect Apple to catch up on the xserve G5s (or at least know *when* they will be able to do so) and then announce upgraded PM G5s at that point to ship as soon as they can after xserve G5 orders.

Until they can handle demand for those two, I doubt you'll see PB G5s. There may be other factors delaying the PB G5s, but 970fx chip supplies may be one of them.

I am waiting for both - a want to replace my Dual 800 G4, and get a PB G5 (I can wait however long it takes though for it, but I don't WANT to have to!).

Ge4-ce
Feb 23, 2004, 08:42 AM
Wow.. Nicoman.. nice.. very nice!! that's a very difficult spell error to track! I had to read trought it for 4 times before I saw it!

that's like.. you know what it has to be so you assume it is there..

another famous example..:

Time is
is running out!

but you have to ad a sand thingy.. don't know the english word for that one.. litery translated it's a sandwalker.. (like the windows version of the spinning beachball)

Trowaman
Feb 23, 2004, 08:42 AM
if this new chip tops out at 2.5 and if it were to go in G5 desktops released in the next month or two, wouldn't a processor bump from 2.5 to 3.0 come June seem a bit soon. I think since Apple skipped Jan and Feb for Powermac upgrades they should hold off until June and do the juge leap.

On that note there are no rumors of chips hitting the 3.0 ghz mark. Are they even going to make good on their promise>:(

centauratlas
Feb 23, 2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
stepping down speed to 1/2 or 1/4 of the processor's top speed, thus reducing the power consumption.


Consequently decreasing heat production.

TorbX
Feb 23, 2004, 08:45 AM
Oh man, wouldn't that be nice... Imagine www.apple.com, updated.

"NEW! PB G5!" followed by a nice, long article about its features, speed, how chill it is, a few switching people, a glance at the hi-tech insides, some jabbering about AltiVec, about beeing the first portable 64 bit for consumers, and some UNIX-links inside and beyond apple.com.

That would make my day!

A headless iMac, as well... :rolleyes:

adamfilip
Feb 23, 2004, 08:46 AM
the posted ratings on cpu's are always conservative. so if they say 2.5 they can prob easily do 3.0 if they say 3 they can prob run at 3.5

mgargan1
Feb 23, 2004, 08:49 AM
Centauratlas: I think you may be on to something here... something, somewhere in the realm of apple, something is going to be updated. I really do think that right now, Apple has something big... well atleast 4 months ago they did... when the AFX was the only contender... now it's the A64 3400+ and the soon 2.4GHz AFX-53 which will be a very good contender; however, a 2.5GHz 970FX will be a scorcher, and not literally... i'm amazed by the heat specs that this thing puts out... By the way, did you guys know that right now, the G5 has a 600Watt Power Supply? That's huge!! I mean. the G5 needs some major cooling and power requirements now!! I can't wait to hear what the PC zealots have to say about this... "oh, yea... well too bad apple has only 5% of the marketshare.." I just say, well 5% of one billion is 50,000,000... that's a lot of computers... i'd like to have 5% of a total market, cause 5% is a lot if you really think about it... and the PC marketshare is divided up into Dell, Gateway... etc..

mpopkin
Feb 23, 2004, 08:52 AM
Very accurate viewpoint and take a hint Powerbook Lovers.(not saying i am not one either, but own a Dual 2g g5 and will be getting a pb when the right time comes) Apple has not even shipped the Xserve G5 yet and trust me. Apple is $$$$ driven so they favor Xserve over Pmac. IBM has not delievered as expected and even if they announced a pmac update now i do not believe it would ship until may/june at the earliest. with that in mind i would wait until august-oct when the g5 3ghz will ship. Patience is a virtue we all can use.



Originally posted by centauratlas
I think that the reason we haven't seen the updated PM G5s (and perhaps PB G5s) is IBM.

Take note of the following facts:
1. Apple's xserve G5s are shipping in "6-8 weeks".

2. InfoWorld quotes an IBM spokesman, Feb 13, 2004 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/04...bmblends_1.html) that says "Samples of the chip have already shipped, and production volumes are increasing." Note, they are producing, but if they were producing at full capacity they'd have said so and not used the language they did.

3. There was an article here (http://www.reed-electronics.com/ele...mp;doc_id=30982) that said this:
"IBM is about to deliver its very first volume production of an SOC on 90nm, said Reeves. This will be a design for Apple."
Note that it says "about to".


So, I think it is safe to say they are producing them in some volume, but it is not yet enough to handle xserve G5s, PM G5s (updated with the 970fx of course), and PB G5s all at once.

Thus, I would expect Apple to catch up on the xserve G5s (or at least know *when* they will be able to do so) and then announce upgraded PM G5s at that point to ship as soon as they can after xserve G5 orders.

Until they can handle demand for those two, I doubt you'll see PB G5s. There may be other factors delaying the PB G5s, but 970fx chip supplies may be one of them.

I am waiting for both - a want to replace my Dual 800 G4, and get a PB G5 (I can wait however long it takes though for it, but I don't WANT to have to!).

NicoMan
Feb 23, 2004, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Wow.. Nicoman.. nice.. very nice!! that's a very difficult spell error to track! I had to read trought it for 4 times before I saw it!

that's like.. you know what it has to be so you assume it is there..

another famous example..:

Time is
is running out!

but you have to ad a sand thingy.. don't know the english word for that one.. litery translated it's a sandwalker.. (like the windows version of the spinning beachball)
a sandwalker ?? in french? or in flemisch ?

dongmin
Feb 23, 2004, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Trowaman
if this new chip tops out at 2.5 and if it were to go in G5 desktops released in the next month or two, wouldn't a processor bump from 2.5 to 3.0 come June seem a bit soon. I think since Apple skipped Jan and Feb for Powermac upgrades they should hold off until June and do the juge leap.

On that note there are no rumors of chips hitting the 3.0 ghz mark. Are they even going to make good on their promise>:( the jump to 3+ ghz is supposed to happen before the end of the summer, meaning announced in August, shipping in September. A March release would mark six months since the G5s were first released, and six months until next Sept., a perfect timeframe.

The big question is about PowerBooks, since we're starting to approach six months. The WWDC, while still two plus months away, would make a good stage for G5 PowerBook announcements--one year anniversary of the G5 Power Macs.

Akira
Feb 23, 2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by Ge4-ce
[...]
but you have to ad a sand thingy.. don't know the english word for that one.. litery translated it's a sandwalker.. (like the windows version of the spinning beachball)
zandloper is in het engels sand glass volgens worldlingo.com ;)
kzou zeggen hour glass trouwens

Ge4-ce
Feb 23, 2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by NicoMan
a sandwalker ?? in french? or in flemisch ?

in flemisch.. :)

sherlock translated it as a sand glass.. is that correct? I don't trust sherlock on translations that much.. :)

dongmin
Feb 23, 2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by mpopkin
Apple is $$$$ driven so they favor Xserve over Pmac. This is absurd, on many levels. Of course Apple is '$$$$ driven'; which company isn't? Power Macs, while cheaper per unit, is WAY more important for Apple's bottom line than the Xserve. Power Macs are a significantly ibgger chunk of the revenue pie. Sure the Xserves probably has the biggest profit margins of any of their hardware, but they just don't move that many units of them to make a huge difference. Now, with the notice that the VT cluster has been serving, Xserves sales may pick up a lot more (who wouldn't want a $5 mil 10-terraflop cluster???) but that remains to be seen.

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by TorbX
about beeing the first portable 64 bit for consumers

AMD 64-bit portables are shipping (see http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_M6807 for an example).

You can download Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for these from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/downloads/upgrade.asp. (Note that this is basically the currently shipping Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for IA64, recompiled for the AMD64 ISA.)


You can get both 64-bit hardware (AMD64, IA64, and soon Intel's AMD64 compatible chips) and 64-bit operating systems (Linux, Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, Windows Server 2003 64-Bit) on the Wintel side.

Apple has a 64-bit CPU, but there is no 64-bit software capability in OS X (that is, no 64-bit process virtual addressing). Apple has not even discussed when OS X might gain some 64-bit features.


Apple will be able to claim the first Mac 64-bit portable, but any other claims about being first with 64-bit portables will be wrong. (And one doesn't even need to consider any of the 64-bit RISC portables that have been sold....)

geerlingguy
Feb 23, 2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Distortion
Nice rumor recap Arn! Let's hope that these new products Apple is undoubtedly working on get announced soon... a G5 PowerBook is all I'm waiting for... and I love to see how the performance gap between Apple/IBM and WinTel increases steadily :)

-Dr. D.

How many 'rumor recaps' have we had? I'm getting sick of every rumor site on the Internet, as well as every Mac forum, talking of new PowerMacs and PowerBooks. When will Apple release them??? PBs are DUE for an update NOW! C'mon, Apple! Let's have G5s!

p.s. My dad's G5 is awesome! I wish I had one (even a 1.6GHz blows away my iBook 933 in Final Cut Express rendering, which I do quite a bit of).

NicoMan
Feb 23, 2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Ge4-ce
in flemisch.. :)

sherlock translated it as a sand glass.. is that correct? I don't trust sherlock on translations that much.. :)
I guess it's hour glass.

stingerman
Feb 23, 2004, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by centauratlas
I think that the reason we haven't seen the updated PM G5s (and perhaps PB G5s) is IBM.

Take note of the following facts:
1. Apple's xserve G5s are shipping in "6-8 weeks".

2. InfoWorld quotes an IBM spokesman, Feb 13, 2004 (http://www.infoworld.com/article/04...bmblends_1.html) that says "Samples of the chip have already shipped, and production volumes are increasing." Note, they are producing, but if they were producing at full capacity they'd have said so and not used the language they did.

3. There was an article here (http://www.reed-electronics.com/ele...mp;doc_id=30982) that said this:
"IBM is about to deliver its very first volume production of an SOC on 90nm, said Reeves. This will be a design for Apple."
Note that it says "about to".


So, I think it is safe to say they are producing them in some volume, but it is not yet enough to handle xserve G5s, PM G5s (updated with the 970fx of course), and PB G5s all at once.

Thus, I would expect Apple to catch up on the xserve G5s (or at least know *when* they will be able to do so) and then announce upgraded PM G5s at that point to ship as soon as they can after xserve G5 orders.

Until they can handle demand for those two, I doubt you'll see PB G5s. There may be other factors delaying the PB G5s, but 970fx chip supplies may be one of them.

I am waiting for both - a want to replace my Dual 800 G4, and get a PB G5 (I can wait however long it takes though for it, but I don't WANT to have to!).

I agree, many do not realize that this is another major processor change. Going from 130NM to 90NM is a major change for IBM. If they pull it off by March, that will be great. Now that we have the advantage of hindsight, if it would have been possible, Apple should have considered a 130NM 2.2GHz G5 release within December. But, maybe everyone was working on the 90NM chips by then.

Rocketman
Feb 23, 2004, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by centauratlas
I think that the reason we haven't seen the updated PM G5s (and perhaps PB G5s) is IBM.

"IBM is about to deliver its very first volume production of an SOC on 90nm, said Reeves. This will be a design for Apple."
Note that it says "about to".


So, I think it is safe to say they are producing them in some volume, but it is not yet enough to handle xserve G5s, PM G5s (updated with the 970fx of course), and PB G5s all at once.


It also means they are "about to".

IBM tends to give reliable "road maps". This is good and HARD news.

Rocketman.

ultimind
Feb 23, 2004, 09:26 AM
This is all speculation, but i'm bored and i like thinking creatively.......

What if Apple were to produce a liquid-cooled single-processor G5 based on the 970FX chip....lets say that the chip spec is 2.5Ghz... now we know that even with a lower power consumption and lower heat, a chip in a powerbook would run too hot and/or consume too much battery to keep it cooled with liquid.....soooooo....here's my idea:

When running on battery, the chip clocks itself down to 1.8Ghz or whatever it can run at without the need for liquid cooling...THEN.....when a user plugs the powerbook in at home/office, they drop it into a sleek looking dock that is a "liquid cooling" dock that allows the powerbook (when using AC power) to run at full chip spec of 2.5Ghz (or whatever speed)

Seems to me like a good tradeoff between speed, power consumption (battery life), and using it as a desktop machine as well as a portable one.


Let me know what ya'll think...maybe some engineers have some logistical feedback as to how apple would accomplish this in a 1" thick design.


I'll fool around in Photoshop later and see what i come up with... (Remember my black 15" powerbook???)


-Dave

Foxer
Feb 23, 2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by NicoMan
I guess it's hour glass.

I thought he was talking about the "beach ball."

PretendPCuser
Feb 23, 2004, 09:30 AM
..that IBM may also be producing regular 970 (not 970FX) on 90nm and might therefore Apple would be able to put those into new PowerMacs? Reason being, would they be cheaper? Would they scale up to 2.4-2.5ghz? Does a PowerMac need the additional technologies the FX is sporting? Does the FX cost more than the regular 970? If it's a volume issue, would it make sense for IBM to produce the 970 and the 970FX (both on 90nm) at the same time?

I obviously don't know enough about the manufacturing process to answer these myself. Perhaps there's been something said that the regular 970 is being retired?

Uh-oh, this post might not be completely useless, so i have to add that i predict that there will be a G5 powered eMac before the end of the year. And a resurrection of the cube.

:D

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Stelliform
(Although that would be so cool to own a liquid cooled laptop!)



My 3 1/2 year old Compaq M700, as well as my new Dell Centrino, uses liquid-cooled heat pipes as part of the CPU heat sink.

Liquid-cooling is an established technology....

Dippo
Feb 23, 2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Foxer
I thought he was talking about the "beach ball."

It's a beach ball on the Mac and an hourglass in Windows...

Of course I think Apple should update the Powerbooks (since I am sure they have bigger margins) then the PowerMacs, and then last the iMacs.

Somedays, I wish I had some say so in when or how things are released, or at least I knew why they weren't released.

warmd
Feb 23, 2004, 09:51 AM
I guess, given the dismal collective record of the rumorworld recently, that MOSR is not the only site whose "sources" have been revealed as the site author's hunches/imaginings, eh?

centauratlas
Feb 23, 2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman
It also means they are "about to".

I agree, but does "about to" mean, last week or in early March or late March? And from their delivery, how long will Apple take to build the machines. My guess (based on Apple delivery times) is that mid March for IBM to ship enough volume for the 970fx xserves, plus a few weeks to get caught up with demand.

IBM is great, don't get me wrong, I just think that they haven't delivered enough volume to support 970fx xserve G5s, PM G5s, and (perhaps) PB G5s all at once.

And I agree it is good hard news, except that "about to" is undefined.

Dippo
Feb 23, 2004, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
My 3 1/2 year old Compaq M700, as well as my new Dell Centrino, uses liquid-cooled heat pipes as part of the CPU heat sink.

Liquid-cooling is an established technology....

Heat Pipes, yes.

Liquid Cooling, no.

Please post a link to back up your statements, I looked but I couldn't find anything that mentioned Dell using liquid cooling in laptops!

kristo
Feb 23, 2004, 09:55 AM
check this out

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35749.html

heh, my guess is a long wait for those G5 powerbooks....

Docrjm
Feb 23, 2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by spinko
the powerbooks to G5 soon, I'll be getting a VAIO

:D
Go ahead, but you will find it preloaded with one of the worst oses.

MongoTheGeek
Feb 23, 2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Dippo
Heat Pipes, yes.

Liquid Cooling, no.

Please post a link to back up your statements, I looked but I couldn't find anything that mentioned Dell using liquid cooling in laptops!

Heat pipes rely on liquids to work.

The only other liquid cooling I know of is for dinosaurs and then you hook up tap water.

jcook793
Feb 23, 2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by MongoTheGeek
Heat pipes rely on liquids to work. No they don't.

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Dippo
Please post a link to back up your statements, I looked but I couldn't find anything that mentioned Dell using liquid cooling in laptops!


It probably isn't mentioned because liquid-filled heat pipes have been used for so long it isn't worth noting....


Look at http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/latd600/sm/thermal.htm#1000001, in particular the picture:


http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/latd600/sm/thermal4.jpg

#1 is the plate connected to the CPU itself, above it you can see the liquid-filled heat pipes that carry the heat to the radiator, which is located behind the fan when installed. The fan does not blow on the CPU, it forces air through the radiator and out the vent opening in the back of the case. The liquid in the heat pipes transfers the heat from the CPU to the radiator.

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by jcook793
No they don't.


Yes they do.

http://www.thermacore.com/hpt_how.htm


http://www.thermacore.com/images/heat_pipe_illustration.jpg

cubist
Feb 23, 2004, 10:12 AM
Beautiful illustrations, AidenShaw. These are used in laptops and in Shuttle PCs, and have been for quite a long time as you say.

ntg
Feb 23, 2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by kristo
check this out

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35749.html

heh, my guess is a long wait for those G5 powerbooks....

I would expect this to go into an iBook update to be releaed in the next couple of weeks along with the G5 Powerbook and iMac upgrades.

(hopefully...):D

Nig.

ntg
Feb 23, 2004, 10:19 AM
The expected cooling is this from Cooligy:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7028

It's different, AND involves Apple (amongst others!) already!

Nig.

johnnyjibbs
Feb 23, 2004, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by kristo
check this out

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/35749.html

heh, my guess is a long wait for those G5 powerbooks....
hmmm.. interesting. Looks like this could fit the PB for a quick update. However, it doesn't seem to offer that much more for less power, but at least I guess it will allow the 12" to move up to 1.25GHz. I could see Apple using this while allowing the available G5 processors to ship in Xserves and PowerMacs.

wdlove
Feb 23, 2004, 10:32 AM
Thank you guys, now I have learned something today. I did not realize that liquid cooling was currently used in a laptop PC. Hopefully Apple can put their innovative touch into this technology. Using it so that a G5 processor can be used in the next generation PowerBook.

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by ntg
The expected cooling is this from Cooligy:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7028

It's different, AND involves Apple (amongst others!) already!

Nig.

Cooligy uses all liquid with an active fluid pump, whereas heat pipes uses a vapor-liquid passive system (the heat from the CPU makes the liquid boil, and the vapor moves through the tube to the condenser (radiator) - where the vapor gives up its heat and returns to liquid and gets back to the heat source - where it boils....).

Note that the Cooligy website has diagrams and discussions of using the technology for servers and PCs, not laptops. Maybe they need to work on miniaturizing that fluid pump.

mcdawson
Feb 23, 2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Trowaman
if this new chip tops out at 2.5 and if it were to go in G5 desktops released in the next month or two, wouldn't a processor bump from 2.5 to 3.0 come June seem a bit soon. I think since Apple skipped Jan and Feb for Powermac upgrades they should hold off until June and do the juge leap.

On that note there are no rumors of chips hitting the 3.0 ghz mark. Are they even going to make good on their promise>:(

I believe that it would be good marketing to ship a 2.5 GHz, even if its replacement is announced in 4 months--just to show that progress is being made (vs the tiny Moto speed jumps).

The rumors about the 3 GHz have centered around the PPC 980--the rumor is that Apple and IBM have been doing dual-tracked development, meaning that they have been working on the 970 & 980 lines at the same time. The 980 is a derivitve of the Power5 chip. I'm pretty sure that the techincial fortunetellers have said that the 970 can't make 3 GHz, so the goal all along was to make good improvements on the 970, while having its replacement (the 980) ready in time when the 970 ran out of speed upgrade steam.

JJTiger1
Feb 23, 2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
It probably isn't mentioned because liquid-filled heat pipes have been used for so long it isn't worth noting....
{snippage}
The liquid in the heat pipes transfers the heat from the CPU to the radiator.

... so, we can add this freon cooling system to the heat sink, and overclock the processor...

Years ago, a chip vendor did a similar trick at a tradeshow. The cooling system was hidden under the display stand. The compressor (similar to that used in a household refridgerator) quit and the computer melted down to useless sand.

... but they had the world's fastest personal computer, even if it worked for only a few days. Set the stage for the speeds that we see today.
=-=
In a laptop: The heat dissipation grid/radiator could be built into the metal vertical display housing. A square foot (or more with a 17 inch display) of metal surface that is raised up into the open air.
... might shorten the life of the display, though.
... might spring a leak in the hinge area.
=-=
JJ

daveL
Feb 23, 2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by centauratlas
I agree, but does "about to" mean, last week or in early March or late March? And from their delivery, how long will Apple take to build the machines. My guess (based on Apple delivery times) is that mid March for IBM to ship enough volume for the 970fx xserves, plus a few weeks to get caught up with demand.

IBM is great, don't get me wrong, I just think that they haven't delivered enough volume to support 970fx xserve G5s, PM G5s, and (perhaps) PB G5s all at once.

And I agree it is good hard news, except that "about to" is undefined.
Well, "about to" is referring to the SOC (System On a Chip) that IBM has designed for Apple, not the 970FX. The context of the blurb that mentioned the SOC was ASIC production, not stock PPC processor production.

Also, the VT PM G5s are already being sold, so G5 Xserves must already be shipping to VT, at least. These are 2 GHz parts, which should be easier to come by, at this point, then 2.5 GHz parts.

I'm thinking another couple weeks, but who knows?

nighthawk
Feb 23, 2004, 01:22 PM
Regarding the Cooligy, their technology needs to be build directly into the processor and cannot be just added as a heatsink to any processor.

The other problem with cooling modern processors is that because the core components are so small, there is a great deal of heat that needs to be removed from a small area. This is where the Cooligy technology is suppose to exceed current cooling methods by using microchannels within the processor to pass the cool liquid through, as opposed to surface-only cooling. This would allow more heat to be disappated.

With the XServe, I do not believe that Apple has a higher profit margin than Powermacs. I think that the prices are comparible, especially if you purchase the Cluster version XServe.

Disadvantages:
- No Superdrive (or any internal optical for Cluster)
- No stock video card
- Stock hard drive is half the size as the Powermac

Advantages:
- Double stock memory (512 MB or 1GB) compared with 256 MB or 512 MB for PowerMac
- DDR400 instead of DDR333 with PowerMac
- ECC memory instead of non-ECC
- 8 GB maximum for all models
- Two Gigabit ethernet ports
- Hot Swappable drives
- Compact design (42 in a rack compared to 9 PM)
- OS X Server 10-client (Cluster) or Unlimited Client - $499 value for 10-client and $999 for Unlimited.

So if you are using it as a Server, in a Cluster or need the improved memory specs, then it is a better value than the PowerMac -- at least right now.

Plus, because of the higher R&D per unit cost, Apple is not making nearly as much profit. However, because of Virginia Tech and their famous cluster, XServe sales should go up. Especially when XGrid is implemented into more software.

eSnow
Feb 23, 2004, 01:33 PM
Of note, the 970FX actually consumes a lot less energy than the 7447A. At 1.4 Ghz, it consumes a modest 12.3W (24.5W at 2.0Ghz), while the 7447A requires a full 20W at the same speed.

Somehow, I don't quite see the 7447A in a PowerBook, maybe it is intended for the iBooks.

IBM spec sheet (http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54/$file/PPC_QRG_1-22-04.pdf)

MrSugar
Feb 23, 2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by eSnow
Of note, the 970FX actually consumes a lot less energy than the 7447A. At 1.4 Ghz, it consumes a modest 12.3W (24.5W at 2.0Ghz), while the 7447A requires a full 20W at the same speed.

Somehow, I don't quite see the 7447A in a PowerBook, maybe it is intended for the iBooks.

The thing people need to realize is that a g5 in a powerbook is a HUGE re-design. It's not like the power is that huge of a factor, but you have to have new motherboards which need to be designed around. New methods of placement, I bet the internals of the PB g5 are completely different than the g4. All these things, esspecially following with apple's 1" enclosure history, are going to take a LONG time to get worked out. It is not simply a matter of switching in a chip, regardless of power, the engineering to complete a g5 powerbook has to be insane.

I hope they come out around summer time, but I have no faith.... I bet it's longer.

AidenShaw
Feb 23, 2004, 01:52 PM
Check out:

http://www.ixbt.com/portopc/athlon-64-m/cooler.jpg

3 heat pipes going to a centrifugal blower.

It's for an 80-watt CPU in a laptop (see http://www.ixbt-labs.com/articles2/amd-athlon64-m/index.html)....

eSnow
Feb 23, 2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by MrSugar
The thing people need to realize is that a g5 in a powerbook is a HUGE re-design.

True, but Apple has been knowing they'd switch to the 970 for at least two years now, they have the XServe and PowerMac logic board and if the IBM guy talking about a 90nm SOC being produced for Apple is right , they are probably just now receiving die-shrunk system controllers.

I am getting more optimistic about an early spring release.

XForge
Feb 23, 2004, 02:04 PM
Too late, I was just forced to order a dual 1.8 instead of waiting for the revisions. Now we'll take shipment of the new machine the same day as the price drops $700 on that unit, betcha betcha.

XForge
Feb 23, 2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Photorun
This week... another vague rumor, tune in next week for... more vague rumors. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict, by the end of 2004, Apple will have one of their pieces of hardware quite possibly maybe slightly faster in speed than it is as of today... but don't hold me to it.

Sorta like Homeland Security and their color-coded threat levels huh? "We've heard there may be a risk, we won't tell you exactly what or where or when, or even what you're supposed to do about it... just be scared, okay?" ;)

hayesk
Feb 23, 2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by XForge
Too late, I was just forced to order a dual 1.8 instead of waiting for the revisions. Now we'll take shipment of the new machine the same day as the price drops $700 on that unit, betcha betcha.

Apple has a price protection guarantee. If the item has not yet shipped, they'll ship you the newer revision at the same price. If you bought a new one within ten days and it has shipped, Apple will refund the difference in price.

thatwendigo
Feb 23, 2004, 02:51 PM
Laptop manufacturers and Shuttle form factor desktops use heatpipes already, as some people have pointed out. What's surprising me is that nobody's brought up that Apple already uses them, too. In fact, the machine right in front of me uses a heatpipe. The eMac has a dual contact pipe that rests between the processor and the SuperDrive, running back around the monitor and up to an exhaust fan.

So we know Apple has some experience using them. Whether that translates to laptop designs is best left to people who have more engineering experience than I.

daveL
Feb 23, 2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by thatwendigo
Laptop manufacturers and Shuttle form factor desktops use heatpipes already, as some people have pointed out. What's surprising me is that nobody's brought up that Apple already uses them, too. In fact, the machine right in front of me uses a heatpipe. The eMac has a dual contact pipe that rests between the processor and the SuperDrive, running back around the monitor and up to an exhaust fan.

So we know Apple has some experience using them. Whether that translates to laptop designs is best left to people who have more engineering experience than I.
Funny, I was just thinking the same thing (Apple already using heat pipes). I've taken the keyboard off my TiBook 1 GHz and it's amazing the amount of plumbing in there.

army_guy
Feb 23, 2004, 05:58 PM
Cooligy is an addon HSF style device, its a piece of silicon with channels in it with liquid that shift the heat away to a radiator via a pump (solid state). This sits on top of the CPU die and since its silicon to paste to silicon the thermal characteristics are excellent, however I dont know what kind of performance you can expect but the objective was to produce a cheap reliable high performance cooling device to replace the current HSF solutions. The only problem is it needs to make contact with the CPU die NOT the heatspreader.

TorbX
Feb 23, 2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by XForge
Sorta like Homeland Security and their color-coded threat levels huh? "We've heard there may be a risk, we won't tell you exactly what or where or when, or even what you're supposed to do about it... just be scared, okay?" ;)

Hahaha, good one! ROFL! :D

Americans are great fun, after all.

Later,
-TorbX.

kingtj
Feb 23, 2004, 08:33 PM
To be perfectly honest, I think this issue has been blown a bit out of proportion. Apple does appear to be trying to solve the problems - and by many accounts, their latest power supply revision does correct most or all of it.

I have a dual 2Ghz tower that I use for some recording work (granted, not quite at the "pro" level, but I have some "pro" level gear attached to it), and I'd say that even with the older revision power supply I've got - the noise "issue" is less of an issue than what I had to deal with on many Windows PC setups.

I don't fault folks for striving for perfection -- but I'm also not sure I quite understand why PowerMac G5 users automatically thought they were entitled to a dead quiet audio input/output with just the built-in audio? In the Windows PC world, it's commonly understood that top-quality audio isn't obtained through your USB ports or through sound card chipsets integrated onto the motherboard. You purchase a "pro quality" audio card with outboard breakout box! Macs may be expected to be superior to Windows PCs, overall, but I never really saw any promises on Apple's part that on-board audio eliminated the need for 3rd. party pro-audio cards?


Originally posted by StudioGuy
And, if they do update them before the Summer, I wonder if the "Pro Audio" noise issues that have been discussed at length regarding the dual units will be solved.

That's stopping me from buying a G5 at all. :(

daveL
Feb 23, 2004, 08:48 PM
I agree. It's just not practical, from a business point of view, for Apple to make every peripheral part of a system to meet the highest "pro" specs. If you think Apple hardware is over-priced now, what do you think it would be if the video, audio, etc. were really "studio" grade? Not everyone needs these system attributes, nor do they want to pay for them. I think Apple tries to hit the "better" quality mark, knowing that it will satisfy most of the market. If your particular application requires something more than that, well that's what expansion slots/buses are there for. Otherwise, you end up with a specialized niche product that very few can afford and even fewer actually need. Third-party add-ons exist for a reason.

aswitcher
Feb 24, 2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by MrSugar


I hope they come out around summer time, but I have no faith.... I bet it's longer.


Sigh, I hope your wrong. I hope they have been working on it for 9 months or so and are just waiting for the chips...

army_guy
Feb 24, 2004, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Yes they do.

http://www.thermacore.com/hpt_how.htm


http://www.thermacore.com/images/heat_pipe_illustration.jpg

Technically heatpipe technology isnt liquid cooling, the common term liquid cooling in industry assumes the use of a pump, radiator and some kind of block to absorb the heat from a hot surface. Heat pipe is reliable and performs quite well but IMO doesnt compare to the flexibility and performance of a liquid cooling system.

rotorblade
Feb 24, 2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by AidenShaw
Note that the Cooligy website has diagrams and discussions of using the technology for servers and PCs, not laptops. Maybe they need to work on miniaturizing that fluid pump.

The issue with laptops really hinges on radiator size and airflow. Radiator size is dependent on many factors such as total power, delta T from fluid temperature to ambient, flow rate...etc. Portable systems are so airflow constrained that the problem is not moving the heat from the package (processor) to the radiator. The problem is getting the heat from the radiator into the air.

With limited airflow, the efficiency difference between a fluid radiator and a heat pipe radiator is not that great. As airflow increases (and the amount of dissipated power increases) in larger chassis, the efficiency difference in the radiator grows. Having a small radiator in an enclosure which provides little airflow will be the major isssue to overcome.

billefrafra
Feb 24, 2004, 09:23 PM
Saw this at the Apple Retail Store (not Education):

"Power Mac G5
Sale Price is $1,899. ($200 savings applied at Check Out)



These products are new and unopened units.


Power Mac G5 1.8GHz/512MB/160G/SuperDrive/PCI/GeFr5200
Add
$2,099.00"

I know I want it to be evidence, but maybe it IS really a good sign. . . .

iPC
Feb 24, 2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by spinko
the powerbooks to G5 soon, I'll be getting a VAIO

:D
Get a ThinkPad instead. Not as sexy, but a higher quality machine for sure.

Ge4-ce
Feb 25, 2004, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by billefrafra
Saw this at the Apple Retail Store (not Education):

"Power Mac G5
Sale Price is $1,899. ($200 savings applied at Check Out)



These products are new and unopened units.


Power Mac G5 1.8GHz/512MB/160G/SuperDrive/PCI/GeFr5200
Add
$2,099.00"

I know I want it to be evidence, but maybe it IS really a good sign. . . .

Well.. it is rather a good sign than a bad one.. but then again.. these machines are rather old.. they were allready replaced by the DUAL 1.8 Ghz models. No-one want's those anymore if you can buy a dual for about the same price.

That's why they really have to dump them lowprice..

but I saw the Ingrammicro stock of PowerMac G5 is getting pretty low.. Same as the displays! that's often a good sign!!

army_guy
Feb 25, 2004, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by rotorblade
The issue with laptops really hinges on radiator size and airflow. Radiator size is dependent on many factors such as total power, delta T from fluid temperature to ambient, flow rate...etc. Portable systems are so airflow constrained that the problem is not moving the heat from the package (processor) to the radiator. The problem is getting the heat from the radiator into the air.

With limited airflow, the efficiency difference between a fluid radiator and a heat pipe radiator is not that great. As airflow increases (and the amount of dissipated power increases) in larger chassis, the efficiency difference in the radiator grows. Having a small radiator in an enclosure which provides little airflow will be the major isssue to overcome.

The cooligy was designed to replace current HSF combinations ( heat sink fan) thats it, it is not competing with liquid/phasechange/TEC cooling.

neonart
Feb 25, 2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Ge4-ce
Well... I saw the Ingrammicro stock of PowerMac G5 is getting pretty low.. Same as the displays! that's often a good sign!!

How can you see Ingram's stock? Are you a reseller, or is there a way for regular people to see it?

Soire
Feb 25, 2004, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by hayesk
Apple has a price protection guarantee. If the item has not yet shipped, they'll ship you the newer revision at the same price. If you bought a new one within ten days and it has shipped, Apple will refund the difference in price.


Is this really true? If I were hypothetically waiting on the edge of my seat for the new PowerMacs to come out, but decided to order the dual 2ghz like tommorow... then what's the safety window? The couple weeks till it ships and then ten more days, within which i'm covered for cost? Or they'd ship off the newer model instead? And while I'm throwing questions around- even if they released a beefed up G5, it still wouldn't ship for at least a month or two, right? Thanks for the info though.

-Soire

rotorblade
Feb 25, 2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by army_guy
The cooligy was designed to replace current HSF combinations ( heat sink fan) thats it, it is not competing with liquid/phasechange/TEC cooling.

I never made such a claim. My response was to AidenShaw's comment regarding pump size. I was only commenting that pump size is not the real issue in trying to use cooligy type technology to cool the processor in a laptop. Airflow is.

AidenShaw
Feb 25, 2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by rotorblade
My response was to AidenShaw's comment regarding pump size. I was only commenting that pump size is not the real issue in trying to use cooligy type technology to cool the processor in a laptop. Airflow is.

Radiator size and airflow are the same issue for both heatpipe and Cooligy fluid cooling. (Let's ignore HSF in a laptop, since it appears that just about everyone is using heatpipes today.)

If you look at the Dell Latitude D600 heat assembly (below), this is handled by placing a fan that inhales from the side and bottom of the laptop, and blows out an opening in the back. The radiator sits between the fan and the opening, so that most of the airflow from the fan goes directly over the CPU radiator fins. A pair of heatpipes conduct the heat from the nearby CPU to the radiator. (In the diagram, you can see the open space between the fan and the louvers in the rear of the case - the radiator drops into that space.)

The AMD64 laptop cooler (below) is even more tightly coupled, with the blower attached to the radiator - but then it has to cool an 80 watt chip rather than a Pentium M (Centrino).

So, it seems the issues are:

Heatpipe advantages:
- passive, nothing to fail and no connections to leak
- reasonable efficiency
- proven over many years in millions of systems

Heatpipe disadvantages:
- radiator should be close to evaporator, restricts design choices

Cooligy advantages:
- higher efficiency, especially at the contact point with the CPU
- radiator and CPU can be separated by arbitrary distances

Cooligy disadvantages:
- the physical bulk of the pump and tubing
- active components add failure possibilities, tubing can leak
- untried new technology
- pump draws battery power


IMO, I'd be surprised to see Cooligy being used in a laptop - especially in an Apple laptop.

Perhaps it would be good for one of the "desktop replacements" which are already bulky and which use a 50watt to 80watt (or more) chip. Piping that heat to a bulky radiator/fan assembly could be good.

For the design goals for Apple (and mainstream PC portables), you're looking at a situation where battery life is going to dictate CPU power in the 10 watt to 20 watt range. Apple isn't going to put an 80watt chip in a Powerbook.

The goal to make the laptop small and thin is also going to argue against unnecessary bulk. Unless Apple decides to introduce big, hot "desktop replacement" systems - small and simple is an advantage.

Heatpipes are proven effective at cooling chips in laptops today - there doesn't seem to be an overwhelming need to change technologies.

Dell Centrino heat assembly (Latitude D600):
http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/latd600/sm/thermal4.jpg

AMD64 heatpipe cooler (80 watt):
http://www.ixbt-labs.com/articles2/amd-athlon64-m/index.html (about the middle of the page)

rotorblade
Feb 25, 2004, 10:41 AM
IMO, I'd be surprised to see Cooligy being used in a laptop - especially in an Apple laptop.

I suppose that was the point I was trying to make. :) While I can certainly see the potential for cooligy technology in servers, workstations , etc., I doubt there's much to be gained over technology currently in use in laptops given the current space and airflow constraints.

a17inchFuture
Feb 25, 2004, 11:07 AM
So I am reading macosrumors.net, and they seem damn confident that the new motorola chips are to be used in the next rev of pb's, which they say is literally around the corner.

But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the pbook updates?

And isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?

paulvee
Feb 25, 2004, 11:09 AM
this promotion is the surest sign yet that they're trying to blow out their stock in preparation for updates:

Between February 25, 2004 through March 27,2004, customers must purchase qualifying Apple product(s) and additional RAM modules (sticks), in either 256MB, 512MB, or 1GB RAM modules (only DDR333 or DDR400 RAM modules qualify).

a17inchFuture
Feb 25, 2004, 11:40 AM
I disagree. They always have deals that go along with their comps. For example, the past couple months hav been buy a comp, get a epson printer. And I think before that it was something else too.

Point being, I dont think its a sure sign. And didn't the original articel say 3-6 months untl teh chips would be available?

paulvee
Feb 25, 2004, 11:52 AM
I pasted the text from the offer. There's a one-month window to get more RAM if you get a PowerMac. Apple isn't trying to sell RAM.

And, yes, there are no sure signs, it was bad language on my part, but I still believe it's a sign of upcoming updates.

StudioGuy
Feb 25, 2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by kingtj
To be perfectly honest, I think this issue has been blown a bit out of proportion. Apple does appear to be trying to solve the problems - and by many accounts, their latest power supply revision does correct most or all of it.



Actually, I wouldn't use the on board audio in/out either. Apparently there are significant issues with the dual G5s and ProTools systems, like the Digi002, which we run our studio on for external audio i/o. It is affecting FW interfaces and the analog audio outs on those boxes too.

See:
http://bmer.servemp3.com/g5/viewtopic.php?t=8

for an overview. I have heard about "Rev E" fixing things, but some Rev E upgraders have seen no change.

Not trying to create a sub-thread here, so anyone with a quiet dual G5 with external audio like a Digi002, please PM me :D and post to the bmer "Pro Audio" forum too. Thanks!!!

daveL
Feb 25, 2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by a17inchFuture
So I am reading macosrumors.net, and they seem damn confident that the new motorola chips are to be used in the next rev of pb's, which they say is literally around the corner.

But didn't the article say the chips wouldn't be ready for mass usage until 3-6 months from now? Wouldn't that be a bit long for the pbook updates?

And isn't macosrumors.net usually wrong?
Well, actually: Yes, yes and yes!

JJTiger1
Feb 25, 2004, 01:44 PM
... but the rumor mill is right once in awhile. :D

wdlove
Feb 25, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by JJTiger1
... but the rumor mill is right once in awhile. :D

Yes, we did get our beloved G5. :)

firewood
Feb 25, 2004, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by eSnow
Of note, the 970FX actually consumes a lot less energy than the 7447A. At 1.4 Ghz, it consumes a modest 12.3W (24.5W at 2.0Ghz), while the 7447A requires a full 20W at the same speed.

Note that the power requirements of Apple's hub chip/memory controller ASIC also needs to be taken into account. The one on the G5 PCB looks like it might be quite a bit more power hungry than the one in a G4 PowerBook.

aswitcher
Feb 25, 2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by paulvee
I pasted the text from the offer. There's a one-month window to get more RAM if you get a PowerMac. Apple isn't trying to sell RAM.

And, yes, there are no sure signs, it was bad language on my part, but I still believe it's a sign of upcoming updates.

I agree, its a potential indicator of an update.

In the least I think Apple have a back log of RAM because most pros and those in the know go to Crucial.

Likely they want to shift it, a) because its no going to move fast enough without help and they need to reduce their holdings.

But possibly b), upgrades are going to use different RAM and such backlogs would be a real liability if that was going to happen.

;)

neonart
Feb 25, 2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by aswitcher
I agree, its a potential indicator of an update.

In the least I think Apple have a back log of RAM because most pros and those in the know go to Crucial....


It's interesting you say that...

I'm willing to assume Apple gets good discounts on RAM. Why do they price it so high?
Wouldn't it make more sense to be competitive with companies like Crucial and others? They would increase sales volume of ram, which in turn sends out more CPU's with more adequate RAM, which in turn makes people have faster machines, which in turn makes for happier initial purchases! All while still selling more product.

Thats just a though, but maybe they DO sell a bunch of overpriced RAM and make a killing at it. Who knows.

Beck446
Feb 26, 2004, 12:31 AM
Neon, I agree. But the obvious answer is that they just make a killing on selling overpriced RAM. This is a crummy promo to boot - their RAM prices should be at this level (or lower) permanently. How about this for a promo: throw in a Mini!

Beck446
Feb 26, 2004, 12:33 AM
Here's a question: is apple still making G4 PowerMacs? And if they are, how long do they usually keep the last generation models in production?

johnnyjibbs
Feb 26, 2004, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by neonart
It's interesting you say that...

I'm willing to assume Apple gets good discounts on RAM. Why do they price it so high?
Wouldn't it make more sense to be competitive with companies like Crucial and others?
They are high because most people don't realise they can go to crucial or whatever. The RAM at time of purchase is one less hassle to worry about and people don't notice they are paying 4 times as much. Sure, Apple charge for the installation of the RAM but it's hardly rocket science is it. Easier than installing new batteries in any device.

aswitcher
Feb 26, 2004, 02:59 AM
Well it might just be profiteering on Apples part...I guess its a pretty good bet...shame really.

CalfCanuck
Feb 26, 2004, 03:04 AM
Well, I've been mislead by following what's in stock before, but it seems interesting that in the G5 lineup the current model that's lagging seems to be the dual 1.8.

Makes sense - the dual 2.0 might not be discontinued, but shifted to be the new middle (or new low end, depending on the speed increase).

Also, the single 1.8 might become the new low end at $1699 - it's funny how many of these single 1.8's have started showing up again after disappearing from stock for so long. People have talked about that they are just the clearing of inventory, but it seems like an AWFUL lot of 4-5 month old inventory to be clearing, and they seem to be increasing rather than decreasing in numbers. So either Apple is trying to get rid of excess inventory of 1.8 CPUs, or else it may be the new low end model.

But back to the dual 1.8 - seems that this unit will be discontinued in the new line up, so the drop in stocks before an upgrade makes sense...

http://www.macprices.com/powermactracker.shtml

pierre74
Feb 26, 2004, 04:16 AM
The French rumor site "Croquer dans la pomme" (http://croquer.free.fr) reports that Apple is ahead of schedule on the development on the PowerBook G5.

Apparently it is about to reach qualifying with delivery expected 8-12 weeks from now.

NicoMan
Feb 26, 2004, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by pierre74
The French rumor site "Croquer dans la pomme" (http://croquer.free.fr) reports that Apple is ahead of schedule on the development on the PowerBook G5.

Apparently it is about to reach qualifying with delivery expected 8-12 weeks from now.

Do you know how reliable they are? They seem to be pretty certain of their 'facts'. Whatever that means...

pierre74
Feb 26, 2004, 08:27 AM
AFAIK they are pretty new to the game.

pierre74
Feb 26, 2004, 12:16 PM
Now, I don't (want to) believe http://croquer.free.fr .

My bet is for Jobs making it to the press conference outside the San Francisco Apple Store to announce the new PowerBook I'll order minutes later. :-)

Pierre

aswitcher
Feb 26, 2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by pierre74
Now, I don't (want to) believe http://croquer.free.fr .

My bet is for Jobs making it to the press conference outside the San Francisco Apple Store to announce the new PowerBook I'll order minutes later. :-)

Pierre

Drum roll please....:D

a17inchFuture
Feb 26, 2004, 02:09 PM
If Jobs announces it at wwdc on teh 28th of june, will it really be available that day to purchase, or is there usually a small waiting period? And if there is a wait, how long until it can be purchased, not shipped or received, but purchased?

Thanks.