Reparations for Black Americans?

[Digital Skunk]

Been looking for this thread for a while now, and with the rise in just about every other topic I felt very curious to read what others think about the topic of reparations for the descendants of African American slaves in some way. shape or form.

When I do hear comments like this:

Why does there seem to be the continuing sense of disbelief among African Americans that whites don't want to pay reparations? Is it really so hard to believe that people who had no part in slavery don't want to give someone who was not enslaved money because a distant relative was enslaved? Since this web site is supposed to be all about diversity's bottom line, how would reparations benefit [businesses that] would be required to pay them?

It doesn't get me upset, but it does make me realize not too many people consider the 300 years of oppression and ongoing effects of it deserves a second thought.

[dukebound85]

so for how long must reparations be paid until its supposedly "even"

nothing will erase what slavery did but where do you draw the line with reparations? im curious

why not devote those resources to help inner city children have a chance at better education and not focus on a specific race?

sorry, i dont believe in reparations. yes slavery was an ugly mark in american history but it is our past. with that said, lets help those in need now no matter the race. thats my opinion so take it for what its worth

[TuffLuffJimmy]

It doesn't get me upset, but it does make me realize not too many people consider the 300 years of oppression and ongoing effects of it deserves a second thought.

And by second thought you mean money?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but don't reparations cause a lot of resentment. And What about people who are half black half white? Should they send themselves a check or what?

[Digital Skunk]

so for how long must reparations be paid until its supposedly "even"

nothing will erase what slavery did but where do you draw the line with reparations? im curious

why not devote those resources to help inner city children have a chance at better education and not focus on a specific race?

sorry, i dont believe in reparations. yes slavery was an ugly mark in american history but it is our past. with that said, lets help those in need now no matter the race. thats my opinion so take it for what its worth

It's fine to have an opinion, I pretty much expressed mine.

As for the reparations, what you mentioned would be one of the ways in which it could be handled. Find a predominantly black city/town/area and pour money into it. Fund a black school or university. Create scholarships and housing programs.

And no, not every race deserves it simply because these are different times and slavery was bad and was the past. So was the holocaust but reparations were paid. So was the genocide of the Native Americans, and the imprisonment of Japanese American's.

To simply shrug off the suffering of blacks for the past 300 years that has only stopped during the past 50 years as being the 'past' let's forget about it is simply callous. IMHO.

[iJohnHenry]

Will the Dutch, British and even Blacks in Africa, who all participated in the slave trade, be included in this windfall?? :rolleyes:

[Digital Skunk]

Will the Dutch, British and even Blacks in Africa, who all participated in the slave trade, be included in this windfall?? :rolleyes:

Glad you posted this comment. It shows the incredible lack of knowledge on the part of some.

No, just the part that involves the Black American's...

You know.... like, the ones that are American. :rolleyes:

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Glad you posted this comment. It shows the incredible lack of knowledge on the part of some.

No, just the part that involves the Black American's...

You know.... like, the ones that are American. :rolleyes:

Does this include black Americans who's ancestry had nothing to do with slavery?

[dukebound85]

Will the Dutch, British and even Blacks in Africa, who all participated in the slave trade, be included in this windfall?? :rolleyes:

what about those who have family ties to slavery in egypt, asia or whatnot and are currently americans? or is it simply those affected by slavery that was at one point practiced in the US?

[Lord Blackadder]

How do we decide how much is owed, and to whom?

More importantly, is it right to put a price on "slavery", pay out, and call the issue finished? That's pure madness. No reparation of any kind could ever "solve" or "put right" past events.

The only way to deal with such things is to do the right thing going forward.

[iJohnHenry]

Glad you posted this comment. It shows the incredible lack of knowledge on the part of some.

Now don't go all "vague" on us.

Are you saying they had no part in the original slaves being transported from Africa?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Now don't go all "vague" on us.

Are you saying they had no part in the original slaves being transported from Africa?

He's using that as a deflection and implying that for some reason we shouldn't worry about them.

[Digital Skunk]

He's using that as a deflection and implying that for some reason we shouldn't worry about them.

No, I am not. But of course you would take his comment seriously, given that I did state African American in my thread title. Meaning said reparations should be for more than just slavery, hence the need NOT to include asking the European and West African countries (many of which have ceased to exist) for compensation.

Does this include black Americans who's ancestry had nothing to do with slavery?

Yes!

This link says it plainly. (http://www.diversityinc.com/public/2283.cfm)

This would benefit ALL Americans by providing the environment in which African-American talent can rise to its potential. An analysis of past social programs that benefited mostly white people (GI Bill, for example) demonstrates that improving opportunities for people dramatically increases wealth generation, which, in turn, liquidates any cost of the program involved by increased income taxes collected.

Time also has an interesting article about the more recent incidents. (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,38907,00.html)

Slavery and its long aftermath were a very terrible crime — and the resulting devastation is still evident. The long duration inured white people; they ceased to see the great wrong clearly, as, in fact, they ceased to see black people at all. Worse, the crime was so immense that white Americans resorted to racism as protection against the implications — as a way of mitigating their own offense. If blacks are inferior, then the crime of enslaving them and treating them badly becomes less, becomes almost... natural.

Reparations are not just needed for slavery. That's the idea that needs to get out of people's heads. It's also for the Jim Crow era, and a good portion of the 1900's.

Now don't go all "vague" on us.

Are you saying they had no part in the original slaves being transported from Africa?

No, just that it's not about asking for reparations from those that didn't benefit as much as the American nation. Also, those that had no part in the oppression and wrong doings of the years after slavery.

[Sun Baked]

Funny thing is, it is one of the most common tax scam perpetrated by black american scam artists against other americans from their own race.

---

Of course, I'm all for giving anyone wanting reparations, 10k dollars and a 1 way ticket back to Africa in exchange for their US citizenship. ;)

[iJohnHenry]

Remember, there were crimes committed well after slavery, that would still warrant reparations. See example below.

No, that crime warranted prosecution, not reparations.

How are descendants of those people involved in a lynching accountable for their ancestor's actions??

Is this like Original Sin??

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Yes!

This link says it plainly. (http://www.diversityinc.com/public/2283.cfm)



Time also has an interesting article about the more recent incidents. (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,38907,00.html)



Reparations are not just needed for slavery. That's the idea that needs to get out of people's heads. It's also for the Jim Crow era, and a good portion of the 1900's.



No, just that it's not about asking for reparations from those that didn't benefit as much as the American nation. Also, those that had no part in the oppression and wrong doings of the years after slavery.

Remember, there were crimes committed well after slavery, that would still warrant reparations. See example below.

well absolutely none of my ancestry had to do with African American slavery so I refuse to pay any sort of reparations or feel guilt (guilt for my ancestors, I do feel empathy for those affected, not their children) for jim crow laws or slavery.

In fact, I think I should have some reparations coming my way for anti-gay laws and bigotry and harassment against anyone not heterosexual.

[dukebound85]

No, that crime warranted prosecution, not reparations.

How are descendants of those people involved in a lynching accountable for their ancestor's actions??

Is this like Original Sin??

its like saying im responsible for my father's debt:cool:

id like to be held accountable for my actions, not others

[Digital Skunk]

No, that crime warranted prosecution, not reparations.

How are descendants of those people involved in a lynching accountable for their ancestor's actions??

Is this like Original Sin??

Way wrong, and shows a lack of understanding of the issue.

You logic would imply that the Holocaust just needed the legal actions that were taken shortly after the war.

well absolutely none of my ancestry had to do with African American slavery so I refuse to pay any sort of reparations or feel guilt (guilt for my ancestors, I do feel empathy for those affected, not their children) for jim crow laws or slavery.

In fact, I think I should have some reparations coming my way for anti-gay laws and bigotry and harassment against anyone not heterosexual.

No need to feel guilt, and technically we'd all be paying them if the American government were to pay them.

Plus, give the links a read. They give good insight into some ways they could be distributed.

Truth is you can ask for reparations for anti-gay harassment and bigotry, and you will get it before black Americans get any for their oppression and bigotry.

if i had to pay that i would move to another country they shouldn't get it otherwise the Jews should pay Christians for killing Jesus

Jesus was a Jew, as were the early Christians.

[italiano40]

if i had to pay that i would move to another country they shouldn't get it otherwise the Jews should pay Christians for killing Jesus

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Way wrong, and shows a lack of understanding of the issue.
No it doesn't, it shows a differing opinion. If anything you have not produced one bit of evidence to support why one person should pay for another person's crimes.


You logic would imply that the Holocaust just needed the legal actions that were taken shortly after the war.
Now who is the one with the lack of understanding?

[Surely]

if i had to pay that i would move to another country they shouldn't get it otherwise the Jews should pay Christians for killing Jesus

I didn't know that the Romans were Jewish.

[dukebound85]

No need to feel guilt, and technically we'd all be paying them if the American government were to pay them.


but not all receiving them, which i guess is the point of reparations.

i had nothing to do with slavery. i ididnt control what actions my ancestors did. my ancestors werent even in the US during the 1800's. why should i have to pay reparations?


Truth is you can ask for reparations for anti-gay harassment and bigotry, and you will get it before black Americans get any for their oppression and bigotry.


any evidence of that claim?

[Surely]

but not all receiving them, which i guess is the point of reparations.

i had nothing to do with slavery. i ididnt control what actions my ancestors did. my ancestors werent even in the US during the 1800's. why should i have to pay reparations?




I just moved to the US from Canada this year. Will I have to pay too?

[iJohnHenry]

Hey, maybe New Englanders and others *coughCanadianscough* can get in on this, what with them supporting the Underground Railroad and all. :rolleyes:

A friend of mine's Grandfather had a farm in Nova Scotia, thanks to those abolitionists. Can he get a cut too??

[sangosimo]

just another bailout.

[Digital Skunk]

but not all receiving them, which i guess is the point of reparations.

i had nothing to do with slavery. i ididnt control what actions my ancestors did. my ancestors werent even in the US during the 1800's. why should i have to pay reparations?

My ancestors didn't swim over here from Africa, why did they have to suffer in the American South?

I wasn't a slave, nor was I alive during Jim Crow, nor did I have anything to do with much of American history prior to my first time voting, but why do I have to see the effects of slavery and such other times of oppression on others like me, and myself included.

just another bailout.

That's a great idea! :D

[iJohnHenry]

just another bailout.

Like that Big-3 fake ad, except the heading would read

You didn't participate in slavery,
so we'll be taking your money anyway.

http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/jasoncalacanis/ihFmaJmvRuINe73wjcoG6h67LIn5jDWHNug6FLeW4wsF7AYTF5ntrVCRfQoy/bigthree.jpg

[TuffLuffJimmy]

No, just that it's not about asking for reparations from those that didn't benefit as much as the American nation. Also, those that had no part in the oppression and wrong doings of the years after slavery.

What the hell what the point of that picture? You post a picture to try and make people feel guilty, yet you say it's not about guilt... This is ridiculous hypocrisy.

[NT1440]

What the hell what the point of that picture? You post a picture to try and make people feel guilty, yet you say it's not about guilt... This is ridiculous hypocrisy.

exactly what I thought when I saw that picture.

Any way, is there any GOOD reason why reparations is around at all? You know, other than those not involved in slavery trying to pay off guilt that they shouldnt hold anyway?

[Digital Skunk]

What the hell what the point of that picture? You post a picture to try and make people feel guilty, yet you say it's not about guilt... This is ridiculous hypocrisy.

No. Your mental feeling of guilt has nothing to do with what I show you. That is strictly up to you and your feelings. Seriously!

Hopefully it reminded you that it's not ONLY about slavery. It's about the ENTIRE 295 year history.

By the way, here is your evidence (http://www.straightblack.com/culture/African-American-Articles/African-American-Slavery-Reparations.html) but I am sure many will by pass reading any of it like some did this the other link that said:

I think reparations should be paid in the form of dramatically increased public-school funding for predominantly black school districts, mortgage subsidies for low-income African Americans (who were not allowed to aggregate family wealth in the form of land/homeownership for most of our country's history) and extensive food and healthcare services in lower-income, predominantly black neighborhoods. Wealthy black people could get a nice tax abatement for a period of years—just like industrialists such as Vice President Dick Cheney, who currently receives deferred compensation from Halliburton (deferred compensation is a way to postpone taxes, often into a period where the person is in a lower tax bracket).

I don't think it matters that one particpated in slavery or not, but the fact that a large portion of america's infrastructure was built upon it; I think that is the op's argument. I don't think "reparations" need to be given but I do think America needs to do more to educate the poor inner city, and this will help blacks.

Whoo Hoo!

[sangosimo]

I don't think it matters that one particpated in slavery or not, but the fact that a large portion of america's infrastructure was built upon it; I think that is the op's argument. I don't think "reparations" need to be given but I do think America needs to do more to educate the poor inner city, and this will help blacks.

[NT1440]

how bout instead of picking and choosing which ethnicities we want to help, which is actually racist, we put plans in place to try to help ALL those who are worse off, and actually fund schools, simply because they need the funding?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

No. Your mental feeling of guilt has nothing to do with what I show you. That is strictly up to you and your feelings. Seriously!

Hopefully it reminded you that it's not ONLY about slavery. It's about the ENTIRE 295 year history.

By the way, here is your evidence (http://www.straightblack.com/culture/African-American-Articles/African-American-Slavery-Reparations.html) but I am sure many will by pass reading any of it like some did this the other link that said:





Whoo Hoo!

I tried reading the other things you posted, but the site was covered in ads and was forcing me to give them my email address. I'm glad you link to such classy organizations :rolleyes:

And as I said I felt no guilt over that picture (obviously I felt a little disgust over seeing dead bodies on my computer). If it wasn't to make me feel guilt then what was the point of that picture? What's that? You're not going to answer this question... interesting.
As I said before I have absolutely no guilty feelings toward slavery or three hundred years of oppression. No amount of your links will change that.
If anything you should be paying me reparations because it was the black and hispanic communities in California that passed prop 8, and that is going on TODAY, not fifty years ago. Next you'll say, "but I didn't pass prop 8, I voted against it (maybe, I don't know you, for all I know you could have voted to further oppress 'my people')" yeah well I didn't enslave anyone or oppress them.

I don't think it matters that one particpated in slavery or not, but the fact that a large portion of america's infrastructure was built upon it; I think that is the op's argument. I don't think "reparations" need to be given but I do think America needs to do more to educate the poor inner city, and this will help blacks.

That makes sense, but supporting poor communities has absolutely nothing to do with reparations ad should not be labeled as such.

[rhett7660]

That makes sense, but supporting poor communities has absolutely nothing to do with reparations ad should not be labeled as such.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Digital Skunk]

how bout instead of picking and choosing which ethnicities we want to help, which is actually racist, we put plans in place to try to help ALL those who are worse off, and actually fund schools, simply because they need the funding?

The Israeli's didn't say that, nor did the Japanese Americans, nor the Native Americans.

Not that I don't agree with you, because this topic has tossed around for decades, but it's paramount to belittling the oppression.

Also, as was twice quoted, predominantly, not only black schools, neighborhoods, etc.

....

Did you read Time magazine?

And before we start going back and forth, I mean no harm or forced guilt in anyway. I apologize if I came across and trying to do so.

[NT1440]

The Israeli's didn't say that, nor did the Japanese Americans, nor the Native Americans.

Not that I don't agree with you, because this topic has tossed around for decades, but it's paramount to belittling the oppression.

Also, as was twice quoted, predominantly, not only black schools, neighborhoods, etc.
they didnt say what?:confused:

I just still dont understand why, because of the mistakes of the past, we should voluntarily try to pay off any guilt that someone is foolishly feeling. I dont feel guilty, because i played no roll in it. That doesnt belittle that racism and slavery are terrible things.

[EricNau]

So I, a white American who had nothing to do with the enslavement or oppression of African Americans in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, should have my tax dollars given to an African American who also had nothing to do with said slavery or oppression?

Sorry, but the time for reparations has come and gone ...about 150 years ago.

[Digital Skunk]

they didnt say what?:confused:

I just still dont understand why, because of the mistakes of the past, we should voluntarily try to pay off any guilt that someone is foolishly feeling. I dont feel guilty, because i played no roll in it. That doesnt belittle that racism and slavery are terrible things.

They didn't say "let's give our reparations that we deserve to others."

It's not about feeling guilty, not my fault if you do, sorry.

Belittling racism and slavery and bigotry IS a result of saying that reparations for those that suffer from it should be spread around to everyone.

So I, a white American who had nothing to do with the enslavement or oppression of African Americans in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, should have my tax dollars given to an African American who also had nothing to do with said slavery or oppression?

Sorry, but the time for reparations has come and gone ...about 150 years ago.

Yes, because you, as a white American is in some way benefitting from the free labor that my ancestors provided. And should help the millions that also did not participate in slavery, that are suffering from it's aftermath.

No, but the time for reparations is now. It's only been 48 years since the end of the oppression.

[NT1440]

They didn't say "let's give our reparations that we deserve to others."

It's not about feeling guilty, not my fault if you do, sorry.

Belittling racism and slavery and bigotry IS a result of saying that reparations for those that suffer from it should be spread around to everyone.
Again, your confusing anyone that brings up guilt as someone who feels guilty. Do I feel guilty at all? **** no! I didnt play a role in it at all.

And youve confused what I said with "belittling racism/slavery". My stance is NO on reparations, not YES but spread it around.

[NT1440]

Yes, because you, as a white American is in some way benefitting from the free labor that my ancestors provided. And should help the millions that also did not participate in slavery, that are suffering from it's aftermath.

No, but the time for reparations is now. It's only been 48 years since the end of the oppression.

So you get to assign guilt to people, nice.

The underlined made me laugh in a holy crap how can anyone think thats true kinda way.

hint: prop 8, oppression is alive and well my friend.

[Digital Skunk]

Again, your confusing anyone that brings up guilt as someone who feels guilty. Do I feel guilty at all? **** no! I didnt play a role in it at all.

And youve confused what I said with "belittling racism/slavery". My stance is NO on reparations, not YES but spread it around.

No, I am saying that it wasn't meant for anyone to feel guilty, but if YOU DO I can't help it. Glad that you don't feel guilty.

And YES, whether you said it or not, making a small deal out of oppression and slavery and innocent killings is the effect of saying yes reparations but spread it around.

Last time I checked I was referring to the blatant oppression of black Americans. Prop 8 has plenty of thread, go there please if you want to talk about it.

[Badandy]

People make CHOICES that determine whether they will have a poor future or a successful one. These choices may be less prevalent for some, they may be a bit cloudier for others, but they are choices nonetheless. Until you can prove to me that you can not get ahead in life even if you make all of the right choices (the ones that aren't counter-productive to future success) the whole reparations argument is ridiculous.

Every single person has felt some kind of discrimination, and you don't have a monopoly on it, Digital Skunk. The notion that you do, or are even entitled to my money because descendants of my race did something to descendants of your race is offensive. Shall we give free money to people whose lives began in less fortunate circumstances because of a death in the family? Some people start life at a disadvantage, it happens. It's unfortunate. The only thing we can do is make sure that these people, at some point, are offered choices that can lead to future success.

And until you can prove that there's no choice at all, and the lack of these choices are directly attributable to the PAST enslavement of African Americans, I'll consider the whole argument of reparations for what it is: A way of absolving personal responsibility and blaming your problems on the white man.

[NT1440]

I'm not making a small deal out of racism and slavery, I just dont think people should pay out needlessly.

Why is money the solution to you? No one alive today was directly involved with slavery at all, white or black, so why is anyone entitled to anything right now?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

No, I am saying that it wasn't meant for anyone to feel guilty, but if YOU DO I can't help it. Glad that you don't feel guilty.

Then just ****ing say why you posted that picture if it wasn't an attempt to make people feel guilt.

[Teh Don Ditty]

I wasn't planning on jumping in here but I felt compelled...

What about the Native Americans?

What about the Irish and Italians?

I'm not down playing what the effect of slavery had on the course of American history, but the above mention groups also paid a price.

[Digital Skunk]

...

It's not about that at all, and I am not the first African American to talk about reparations, so where did you get this monopoly thing from? :confused:

It's more about what the nation did to a people, and how the nation owes them for the after effects that don't stop at poverty.

Check this link out please. (http://www.alternativeinsight.com/Reparations-Slavery.html#Conclusion) And the others I posted, especially the one from Time, give a much shorter view point.

Then just ****ing say why you posted that picture if it wasn't an attempt to make people feel guilt.

I already did, and calm down.

Hopefully it reminded you that it's not ONLY about slavery. It's about the ENTIRE 295 year history.

I wasn't planning on jumping in here but I felt compelled...

What about the Native Americans?

What about the Irish and Italians?

I'm not down playing what the effect of slavery had on the course of American history, but the above mention groups also paid a price.

The native Americans got their reparations. The Irish and Italian Americans never brought up the question, and never faced as much as the Native, Japanese and African Americans, nor the Jewish in Germany during the holocaust.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

No, but the time for reparations is now. It's only been 48 years since the end of the oppression.

Maybe is over for black people, but not everyone. So why should you be getting reparations if other people are still suffering, black and white.

[NT1440]

your quote of yourself does not explain what relevance that picture has....

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I already did, and calm down.

No you didn't. You said why you didn't post it (claim it wasn't for guilt) but you didn't say why you posted it (and I have a sneaking suspicion it had to do with forcing guilt on people).

Please, in one sentence, state exactly why you posted that picture.

[Badandy]

I'm not making a small deal out of racism and slavery, I just dont think people should pay out needlessly.

Why is money the solution to you? No one alive today was directly involved with slavery at all, white or black, so why is anyone entitled to anything right now?

Because everything is someone else's fault. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33695-2005Jan24.html)


I'll also mention that Chinese-Americans were treated like absolute scum in the past, especially where I'm from in California. They were treated absolutely as second-class citizens and what they endured is comparable to slavery. Of course, their culture places a strong emphasis on education and as an ethnic group, they are doing remarkably well.

[EricNau]

Yes, because you, as a white American is in some way benefitting from the free labor that my ancestors provided. And should help the millions that also did not participate in slavery, that are suffering from it's aftermath.
We're all equal, no? The supposed benefits I've reaped from slavery (of which I am definitely not clear) apply to you just as me.

No, but the time for reparations is now. It's only been 48 years since the end of the oppression.
Then end? There are still millions of Americans who are currently being oppressed. I don't see you opening your wallet for them.

[rhett7660]

Yes, because you, as a white American is in some way benefitting from the free labor that my ancestors provided. And should help the millions that also did not participate in slavery, that are suffering from it's aftermath.

I call bulls**t, how am I benefiting? Please tell me how I am benefiting?

Are you trying to imply that all racism in America is because of slavery? I am sorry but jim crow laws and the like also applied to other groups not just african americans.

I didn't know America enslaved other groups?

[Teh Don Ditty]

The native Americans got their reparations. The Irish and Italian Americans never brought up the question, and never faced as much as the Native, Japanese and African Americans, nor the Jewish in Germany during the holocaust.

But in the end they still got their land taken from them. You're totally down playing what the Irish and Italians did.

What about women? Women have been treated as second class citizens pretty much since the dawn of time.

[NT1440]

The native Americans got their reparations. The Irish and Italian Americans never brought up the question, and never faced as much as the Native, Japanese and African Americans, nor the Jewish in Germany during the holocaust.

:rolleyes: Belittling the oppression faced by thousands and thousands, possibly millions of people?


does the hypocrisy taste good?

[rhett7660]

But in the end they still got their land taken from them. You're totally down playing what the Irish and Italians did.

What about women? Women have been treated as second class citizens since the dawn of time.


Exactly......... But since they are not african american and were not enslaved we will just by pass them. :rolleyes:

[Teh Don Ditty]

:rolleyes: Belittling the oppression faced by thousands and thousands, possibly millions of people?


does the hypocrisy taste good?

Thank you very much (as I stated in the above post)

Exactly......... But since they are not african american and were not enslaved we will just by pass them.

You're welcome. I wanted to bring that up originally but I wanted to see where the OP would take it.

[rhett7660]

Thank you very much (as I stated in the above post)



You're welcome. I wanted to bring that up originally but I wanted to see where the OP would take it.

I don't think he/she will....

[Teh Don Ditty]

I don't think he/she will....

Ya never know.

Reparations isn't the answer. Education and knowledge is the answer people. Help the poor neighborhoods, no matter what race, creed or skin color... it's that simple.

[NT1440]

Ya never know.

Reparations isn't the answer. Education and knowledge is the answer people. Help the poor neighborhoods, no matter what race, creed or skin color... it's that simple.
+1 thats what Ive been saying all along.

Screw race, help the PEOPLE.

[JW8725]

Whilst your at it, you Cowboys owe them Red Indians money too.

[Digital Skunk]

I guess no one thinks anymore.

Since many don't know the history of reparations. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery)

Nor why other races and cultures received it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_reparations)

And yet others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations)

A good read for those that can. (http://books.google.com/books?id=FA-Yb0eW67QC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=the+ignorance+of+white+people&source=bl&ots=rr9jGnXs8s&sig=zF1TwaFqUM2ezaOd415eNFka6Gg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result)

Why did I think people could have an intelligent conversation in anonymity? :rolleyes:

[Teh Don Ditty]

+1 thats what Ive been saying all along.

Screw race, help the PEOPLE.

Sorry, I forgot to include sexual orientation. No offense to my LGBT friends.

[Badandy]

+1 thats what Ive been saying all along.

Screw race...

Racist! Pay me money.

[robanga]

While I am not against the idea of reparations in some form, the notion of how one would ever carry them out seems untenable.

Proving one's lineage back to slavery? That sounds hard at best.

My ancestors were abolitionists and one of them even died at Gettysburg. Should I get a tax credit? :D

Should I get reparations from Norway because my ancestors were massacred by Vikings? How about colonialism? Lets throw some money to those people to.

Monetarily covering every injustice in the past of very imperfect people is going to be very expensive.


Now let's go bailout the auto industry. They all seem deserving.

[NT1440]

I guess no one thinks anymore.

Since many don't know the history of reparations. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery)

Nor why other races and cultures received it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_reparations)

And yet others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations)

See, thats the thing, we do think. We think OUR opinions, not what some Time article says.

Just because reparations have been paid in the past doesnt mean they were the right thing to do then either.

Different times, different solutions, beleive it or not people are starting to realize that money for individuals isnt as important as making the lives of ALL better.

[Teh Don Ditty]

I guess no one thinks anymore.

Since many don't know the history of reparations. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_for_slavery)

Nor why other races and cultures received it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_reparations)

And yet others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_reparations)

A good read for those that can. (http://books.google.com/books?id=FA-Yb0eW67QC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=the+ignorance+of+white+people&source=bl&ots=rr9jGnXs8s&sig=zF1TwaFqUM2ezaOd415eNFka6Gg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result)

Why did I think people could have an intelligent conversation in anonymity? :rolleyes:

Insulting us doesn't help your argument.

We simply disagree with what you're saying and we are not downplaying what happened. We are trying to point out there are also other groups that had things happen to them.

[Badandy]

While I am not against the idea of reparations in some form, the notion of how one would ever carry them out seems untenable.

Proving one's lineage back to slavery? That sounds hard at best.

My ancestors were abolitionists and one of them even died at Gettysburg. Should I get a tax credit? :D

Should I get reparations from Norway because my ancestors were massacred by Vikings? How about colonialism? Lets throw some money to those people to.

Monetarily covering every injustice in the past of very imperfect people is going to be very expensive.


Now let's go bailout the auto industry. They all seem deserving.

This is a great post, all around.

[Digital Skunk]

Insulting us doesn't help your argument.

We simply disagree with what you're saying and we are not downplaying what happened. We are trying to point out there are also other groups that had things happen to them.

Not insulting everyone, just those that care not to think about anything other than their own stance on the issue.

Yes, everyone that has had something "bad" things happen, how many groups are still effected personally, how many have had serious detrimental effects on their culture and way of life, and how many can point directly to a nation or large group of people that did so over the course of centuries?

See, thats the thing, we do think. We think OUR opinions,

No ones opinion should out way the facts. PERIOD!

[Tilpots]

Not insulting everyone, just those that care not to think about anything other than their own stance on the issue.

Yes, everyone that has had something "bad" things happen, how many groups are still effected personally, how many have had serious detrimental effects on their culture and way of life, and how many can point directly to a nation or large group of people that did so over the course of centuries?

I can't think of any groups, religions or peoples that haven't been persecuted at one time or another in the history of mankind.

[NT1440]

No ones opinion should out way the facts. PERIOD!

Thats what I dont understand. Are you saying its a fact that reparations should be paid? So YOU get to decide fact?

What facts are we outweighing?


I used to really respect you when I first came to this site, when you do things like this however, that respect has really waned.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Not insulting everyone, just those that care not to think about anything other than their own stance on the issue.

Yes, everyone that has had something "bad" things happen, how many groups are still effected personally, how many have had serious detrimental effects on their culture and way of life, and how many can point directly to a nation or large group of people that did so over the course of centuries?



No ones opinion should out way the facts. PERIOD!

The facts have no opinion. They are presented and then there are a couple of opinions you can take from them. No opinion presented in this thread is wrong and it is incredibly small minded and ignorant of you to think otherwise.

[Teh Don Ditty]

Not insulting everyone, just those that care not to think about anything other than their own stance on the issue.

Yes, everyone that has had something "bad" things happen, how many groups are still effected personally, how many have had serious detrimental effects on their culture and way of life, and how many can point directly to a nation or large group of people that did so over the course of centuries?

Women and Jews, for give or take 3000 years?

I understand what you're trying to convey, but African-Americans aren't and will not be the only ones persecuted, if you will. Look what's happening to the Latino and LGBT communities.

[NT1440]

Yes, everyone that has had something "bad" things happen, how many groups are still effected personally, how many have had serious detrimental effects on their culture and way of life, and how many can point directly to a nation or large group of people that did so over the course of centuries?


Hint: ALL of them, thats how history works, something happens, then everything comes forth from it.

I cannot think of ANY group that has not at some point or another been discriminated. You can say white folks, but then if you like to subdivide, religious persecutions come into play and that covers just about every race.

[Badandy]

No ones opinion should out way the facts. PERIOD!

Is it my ancestors' fault you can't spell "out-weigh"? How about this. How 'bout the taxpayers pay some money to build schools, free of charge, that people can attend. Inside these schools kids can make a choice whether they want to pay attention or not. If the school isn't of the greatest quality, they can go to a place where there are books everywhere payed for by the taxpayers called libraries. These exist, and they're free of charge. If you value education enough (and if you don't, that's a combination of your own fault and your parents') you can study and get into a college that you CAN afford from either free scholarships or low interest loans. Many of these colleges even like accepting people who come from bad living conditions because rising above it shows tenacity that someone else may not have displayed. Or are you telling me that this is all just a pipe dream?

[rhett7660]

Is it my ancestors' fault you can't spell "out-weigh"? How about this. How 'bout the taxpayers pay some money to build schools, free of charge, that people can attend. Inside these schools kids can make a choice whether they want to pay attention or not. If the school isn't of the greatest quality, they can go to a place where there are books everywhere payed for by the taxpayers called libraries. These exist, and they're free of charge. If you value education enough (and if you don't, that's a combination of your own fault and your parents') you can study and get into a college that you CAN afford from either free scholarships or low interest loans. Many of these colleges even like accepting people who come from bad living conditions because rising above it shows tenacity that someone else may not have displayed. Or are you telling me that this is all just a pipe dream?


Agreed also......

[Badandy]

As long as success can be realized by making the right choices in life, I'm not paying anyone for not doing so. It may be harder for some (that includes many other groups as well as blacks), but that's life. Past injustices do not justify new ones.

[Digital Skunk]

Is it my ancestors' fault you can't spell "out-weigh"? How about this. How 'bout the taxpayers pay some money to build schools, free of charge, that people can attend. Inside these schools kids can make a choice whether they want to pay attention or not. If the school isn't of the greatest quality, they can go to a place where there are books everywhere payed for by the taxpayers called libraries. These exist, and they're free of charge. If you value education enough (and if you don't, that's a combination of your own fault and your parents') you can study and get into a college that you CAN afford from either free scholarships or low interest loans. Many of these colleges even like accepting people who come from bad living conditions because rising above it shows tenacity that someone else may not have displayed. Or are you telling me that this is all just a pipe dream?

Technically it is when said institutions don't have the resources or capital to properly educate. And when certain groups of people have to go the extra mile since state or local governments won't fund their institutions.

Or were you not around for Brown vs. Board of Education?

And since you don't want to read the links. I will post it here for you, but I know that doesn't mean you'll read it.

A misconception has individual Americans responsible for reparations. The American system and its present government remain responsible for the actions of the previous American governments that began the unlawful persecution of Black people in 1787. Reparations are based upon the collective legal responsibility of the American system and not on its individual citizens.

[Tilpots]

^^^


Who do you think pays the American Gov???:confused:

[TuffLuffJimmy]

A misconception has individual Americans responsible for reparations. The American system and its present government remain responsible for the actions of the previous American governments that began the unlawful persecution of Black people in 1787. Reparations are based upon the collective legal responsibility of the American system and not on its individual citizens.

Yet it would still make Americans pay more, thus put more ridiculous responsibility on individual citizens.

[Digital Skunk]

^^^


Who do you think pays the American Gov???:confused:

Been answered that. And like I said before and will continue to say, there are many ways to institute the reparations that will help the economy and ALL races.

Can someone prove to me that this isn't a bunch of uber conservative WASPs screaming, "Give my money to those negroes! No way!"

Without passing opinion or judgement?

It's garbage.

I guess you know a lot about that since it keeps winding up in your posts.

That's my opinion, call it what you want.

[Badandy]

And since you don't want to read the links. I will post it here for you, but I know that doesn't mean you'll read it.

It's garbage.

Can someone prove to me that this isn't a bunch of uber conservative WASPs screaming, "Give my money to those negroes! No way!"

Thread over.

[Blue Velvet]

Can someone prove to me that this isn't a bunch of uber conservative WASPs screaming, "Give my money to those negroes! No way!"

Without passing opinion or judgement?


That's an impossible thing to prove and making slurs against forum members isn't encouraged. Engage with the argument.

[NT1440]

Been answered that. And like I said before and will continue to say, there are many ways to institute the reparations that will help the economy and ALL races.

Can someone prove to me that this isn't a bunch of uber conservative WASPs screaming, "Give my money to those negroes! No way!"

Without passing opinion or judgement?



I guess you know a lot about that since it keeps winding up in your posts.

That's my opinion, call it what you want.

I call your opinion extremely arrogant and ignorant.

And to the underlined, prove that it IS, where are you getting that from ? oh yea, YOUR opinion, so u cannot even fulfill your own request.

[Tilpots]

DS,

What do you think you are entitled to?

[Blue Velvet]

I am not going to argue this topic by PM. This thread is closed.

If anyone receives unwanted PMs, please let a moderator know.