Theory

[TSE]

Okay, as most of you know, in the Current Events section, there is a thread called "Hovering Weapon" or something like that. It really scared the **** out of me. Not because of the technology, but because of what might come from all this rise in "top secret" technology.

Imagine if the American government, or any government for this matter, becomes corrupt. The American people voted in somebody because they are desperate and he is a good speaker and lies about who he is or something (I would predict 70% of voters don't even know a **** about politics). He and the senate start up a secret police force, starts throwing political prisoners in camps, and forces people to do labor. The American people have had it, the only thing left to do is start a revolution.

The American people start a revolution, but with all this rise in super expensive and secretly government controlled war technology, it gets harder and harder everyday for the everyday person to do if the time comes, I mean, the government is what controls all these weapons.

Back then, during the French revolution, the Russian revolution, etc., all those revolutions had was basic guns and stuff, nowadays if we started a revolution, the American government could just throw something at us that nobody could survive from.

Scary stuff.

[itcheroni]

Hasn't it been this way for a while? Weapons have been sophisticated for a long time. It would be much more efficient to control us through medication.

[Blue Velvet]

It would be much more efficient to control us through medication.

Or television.

[EricNau]

Luckily, our government isn't run by one person, it's run by many thousands and thousands of elected officials. "A government of the people, by the people, for the people," remember?

And who do you think creates these weapons? The people.

The notion of an all powerful government taking control of its people isn't realistic when you consider our government is composed of the very people it controls.

[Digital Skunk]

Luckily, our government isn't run by one person, it's run by many thousands and thousands of elected officials. "A government of the people, by the people, for the people,"

Right. Thousands and thousands of corrupt elected officials. :rolleyes:

And last time I checked the Manhattan project was created in secrecy by the government, not the people.

[EricNau]

And last time I checked the Manhattan project was created in secrecy by the government, not the people.
Funded by the government, but created by the people.

Our government is nothing without the support of the people. ...And if the people decide to support a corrupt government, the point of a revolution is moot.

[Digital Skunk]

...And if the people decide to support a corrupt government, the point of a revolution is moot.

I can agree with that (Bushes second term comes to mind), but the US gov. does put money in places without the people knowing, and does create weapons never asked for, and kept under secrecy.

Just like every government on the planet. Secrecy isnt just a US thing

Agreed, I was never arguing that it wasn't.

[NT1440]

I can agree with that, but the US gov. does put money in places without the people knowing, and does create weapons never asked for, and kept under secrecy.

Just like every government on the planet. Secrecy isnt just a US thing

[EricNau]

I can agree with that (Bushes second term comes to mind), but the US gov. does put money in places without the people knowing, and does create weapons never asked for, and kept under secrecy.
And the motive for that secrecy is ultimately the point of this conversation. Are they intentionally hiding secret weapons from their people to prevent revolution, or are they hiding them from our foreign enemies?

It's a matter of national security; our government can't keep us safe if they make all of their weapon designs public domain.

[Digital Skunk]

And the motive for that secrecy is ultimately the point of this conversation. Are they intentionally hiding secret weapons from their people to prevent revolution, or are they hiding them from our foreign enemies?

It's a matter of national security; our government can't keep us safe if they make all of their weapon designs public domain.

Maybe not the weapon designs, but hiding the weapons themselves is something I don't agree with 100%. I'd like to know where my taxpayer money is going.

[NT1440]

Maybe not the weapon designs, but hiding the weapons themselves is something I don't agree with 100%. I'd like to know where my taxpayer money is going.
I belive that falls under "national security". A bit of a necessary evil, if citizens know where our weapons are held, what keeps our "enemies" from knowing too?

also, my 2000th post :)

[Digital Skunk]

I belive that falls under "national security". A bit of a necessary evil, if citizens know where our weapons are held, what keeps our "enemies" from knowing too?

also, my 2000th post :)

True, but the gov can hide weapons and still let American's know that they exist.

And some of our best weapons can't be hid that easily and are put out there in the open.

[Blue Velvet]

also, my 2000th post :)

Posts don't count in this forum. :p

[EricNau]

True, but the gov can hide weapons and still let American's know that they exist.

And some of our best weapons can't be hid that easily and are put out there in the open.
You saw the video, didn't you? :p

[NT1440]

Posts don't count in this forum. :p

DAMMIT ALL!! lol

why is that?

Anyway, Digital, i dont understand your last post.

[EricNau]

why is that?
Post count is a general representation of a user's contribution to this community. Political discussions attract a lot of quick exchanges between users, thus significantly bolstering post count, without the user contributing to the community as a whole.

[NT1440]

Post count is a general representation of a user's contribution to this community. Political discussions attract a lot of quick exchanges between users, thus significantly bolstering post count, without the user contributing to the community as a whole.

Makes sense.

I dont honestly care about the count other than it shows that i spent entirely too much time here:p

night all.

[itcheroni]

Maybe not the weapon designs, but hiding the weapons themselves is something I don't agree with 100%. I'd like to know where my taxpayer money is going.

Letting the world know you have a new weapon is a deterrent in itself. If you're going to build it, you might as well let known its capacity for destruction.

What's funny is we have all the weapons we need. Our best defense is intelligence.

[LethalWolfe]

Back then, during the French revolution, the Russian revolution, etc., all those revolutions had was basic guns and stuff, nowadays if we started a revolution, the American government could just throw something at us that nobody could survive from.

Scary stuff.
What is the point of killing everyone in the country you want to rule, occupy, and/or manipulate? Sure, Spooky Shadow Government X could use nukes to stop an uprising but then Spooky Shadow Government X would go from running the world's only super power to running the world's biggest radio active wasteland. Wiping a country off the map is relatively simple. Occupying a country is hard.


Lethal

[Digital Skunk]

Letting the world know you have a new weapon is a deterrent in itself. If you're going to build it, you might as well let known its capacity for destruction.

What's funny is we have all the weapons we need. Our best defense is intelligence.

Very true. And exactly the case during the cold war, where M.A.D. was the name of the game.

[Counterfit]

The American people voted in somebody because they are desperate and he is a good speaker and lies about who he is or something (I would predict 70% of voters don't even know a **** about politics). He and the senate start up a secret police force, starts throwing political prisoners in camps, and forces people to do labor.

Your imagination is scary.




Oh wait, you just described Hitler's rise to power, minus the scapegoating of "Inferior races", and swapped "Germany/Germans" for "America/Americans". :p

[EricNau]

Oh wait, you just described Hitler's rise to power, minus the scapegoating of "Inferior races", and swapped "Germany/Germans" for "America/Americans". :p
Then the point again, in moot. Who fought against the German Government in WWII? The German People? No, other nations, with equally sophisticated weaponry, fought and won that war.

[Queso]

If the American people were clever they would simply stop working until the system fell apart. You don't have to riot in the streets to bring a government down, as has been proved many times throughout history. This mythical dictator (who, most certainly, hasn't just been elected :D) can have all the weapons he/she wants, but if people don't assemble together and instead passively resist by staying in their homes and refusing to work those weapons aren't going to be much good.

[skunk]

Then the point again, in moot. Who fought against the German Government in WWII? The German People? Quite a number of Germans, actually, together with an immense number of Russians armed with fairly basic kit.

[iJohnHenry]

Just like every government on the planet. Secrecy isnt just a US thing

Have you children forgotten the lesson learned in Dr. Stangelove, about the Doomsday Machine??

"The Premier was going to unveil it in his May-Day speech." :p

[NT1440]

Have you children forgotten the lesson learned in Dr. Stangelove, about the Doomsday Machine??

"The Premier was going to unveil it in his May-Day speech." :p

:(

I have no idea what your talking about.

I'm sorry.

[iJohnHenry]

Don't be sorry about that, just be sorry that you are unfamiliar with Stanley Kubrick's genius.

[skunk]

:(

I have no idea what your talking about.

I'm sorry.If you haven't seen the movie, you definitely should.
"You can't fight in here, it's the War Room..."
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=29czSGSPE7k

[iJohnHenry]

Shear genius, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD9o0OWYHRo

[Lord Blackadder]

Dr. Strangelove = outstanding film!

No matter what level of technology a government/military musters, a revolution is always possible if enough of the populace are behind it.

[iJohnHenry]

And, like it or hate it, thanks to the Second Amendment, civilians numbering the 100 millions could be in the streets, well armed.

The best guarantee against tyrants that I can think of.

[AP_piano295]

And the price of tinfoil EXPLODES....

[Queso]

And the price of tinfoil EXPLODES....
Now you see, if we'd only kept the Cornish tin industry going the Pound might actually have gone up there.

Bloody Thatcher!! :p

[skunk]

Now you see, if we'd only kept the Cornish tin industry going the Pound might actually have gone up there.

Bloody Thatcher!! :pDon't be silly. Everybody knows tinfoil is made of alumin(i)um.

[Queso]

Don't be silly. Everybody knows tinfoil is made of alumin(i)um.
Only because Thatcher wanted away with the Cornish mining industry :D

[63dot]

Okay, as most of you know, in the Current Events section, there is a thread called "Hovering Weapon" or something like that. It really scared the **** out of me. Not because of the technology, but because of what might come from all this rise in "top secret" technology.

Imagine if the American government, or any government for this matter, becomes corrupt. The American people voted in somebody because they are desperate and he is a good speaker and lies about who he is or something (I would predict 70% of voters don't even know a **** about politics). He and the senate start up a secret police force, starts throwing political prisoners in camps, and forces people to do labor. The American people have had it, the only thing left to do is start a revolution.

The American people start a revolution, but with all this rise in super expensive and secretly government controlled war technology, it gets harder and harder everyday for the everyday person to do if the time comes, I mean, the government is what controls all these weapons.

Back then, during the French revolution, the Russian revolution, etc., all those revolutions had was basic guns and stuff, nowadays if we started a revolution, the American government could just throw something at us that nobody could survive from.

Scary stuff.

One of the last interviews I saw recently when Obama was questioned about Gitmo, he said he would close that and the "black detention centers" which are US based Gitmo type prisons.

That gave me hope and I didn't even vote for him. :)