Fire hits Palin's Church

[Peace]

A "suspicious" fire devastated the church attended by Alaska Gov. and former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin on Friday night in her hometown of Wasilla, the church's minister said."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/13/palin.church/index.html

[.Andy]

"God, should I run for president in 2012? Give me a sign"

[és:]

"God, should I run for president in 2012? Give me a sign"


''Oh, jees. God thinks it's a hot idea if I run for president. Ain't that just swell''

[Abstract]

"God will do the right thing."


Apparently the fire caused around $1 million worth of damage, or around 5 Palin wardrobes.

[drichards]

That's awful.

Thoughts and prayers.

[blackfox]

While I am certainly not a fan of Sarah Palin, I am much less of a fan of whatever douche is behind this.

Arson is so **cking clever.

[Thomas Veil]

Uh, yeah...you don't fight conservatism with worthwhile ideas and values; you fight it with matches and gasoline. :rolleyes:

....Jackass....

I don't care if anyone thinks Palin and/or the church are a bunch of religious nutcases...this is despicable.

Apparently the fire caused around $1 million worth of damage, or around 5 Palin wardrobes.Okay, I do feel bad about this, but that made me laugh. :D

[glocke12]

If this church was anything other than a Christian house of worship, and Palins church, people would be screaming "hate crime"....

[és:]

If this church was anything other than a Christian house of worship, and Palins church, people would be screaming "hate crime"....

I certainly don't think you'll find anyone condoning this despicable act of cowardice. It has nothing to do with it being a church or Palin being a member, it is wrong and people have expressed that.

[JW8725]

Terrible news. Sarah Palin is one hot hocky momma though.

[yg17]

Must've been all of those damn witches over in Africa. Her pastor is already on a flight to Kenya to do some more exorcisms.

[iJohnHenry]

God wants her home, to help rebuild His church. :rolleyes:

[rdowns]

I heard the closed circuit video showed this suspect leaving the church just before the fire broke out.


http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/gamebirds/images/wild_turkey.jpg

[leekohler]

That's terrible. My parent's house burned down a little over a month ago. It's one of the worst things that can happen. Let's hope they find whoever did it. It's fortunate no one was hurt.

If this church was anything other than a Christian house of worship, and Palins church, people would be screaming "hate crime"....

Is that really all you have to say? My god, are you that cynical?

[Peace]

I certainly don't think you'll find anyone condoning this despicable act of cowardice. It has nothing to do with it being a church or Palin being a member, it is wrong and people have expressed that.

Personally I think just the opposite. It is a hate crime focused on Palin and her church.

Just an opinion and arson is wrong. Anywhere.

Sadly this was probably done by one of those nut cases she got all wired up.

[Schtumple]

I heard the closed circuit video showed this suspect leaving the church just before the fire broke out.


http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/gamebirds/images/wild_turkey.jpg

Hahaha, POTD, easily.

[joepunk]

I bet it was relatives from that one un-pardon turkey in the interview that started it.

If it does turn out to be arson I hope they catch any involved.

[leekohler]

Personally I think just the opposite. It is a hate crime focused on Palin and her church.

Just an opinion and arson is wrong. Anywhere.

Well, we really can't say that just yet. I didn't see mention of a suspect in the article. That judgment could certainly be made depending on who did it. We won't know that til they nab someone. The sad thing is, fire destroys so much evidence. We may never know who did it.

[és:]

Personally I think just the opposite. It is a hate crime focused on Palin and her church..

I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying. I'm not saying that it had nothing to do with the fire, I'm saying that my opinion has nothing to do with Palin or the church. I've no idea why/somebody started the fire.

It was just a direct response to the other poster. It is despicable and nobody is denying that.

[Peace]

Well, we really can't say that just yet. I didn't see mention of a suspect in the article. That judgment could certainly be made depending on who did it. We won't know that til they nab someone. The sad thing is, fire destroys so much evidence. We may never know who did it.

Come on Lee. We're talking about a town of 5,000 people where everybody knows each other. And there were 5 women inside the church when it was started at the front door..Sounds to me like some wacko ran up to the church and started the fire then ran away. A local no doubt. And a local that's peeved off at the church. I know coincidences don't mean much in a large city but this is a tiny town with a national figure at the center.

It's obvious to me.

[IJ Reilly]

It's odd that this is being described as "Sarah Palin's church," when surely it is the church of hundreds of others besides her. Speaking of odd, Palin offered what I can only call a preemptive apology with a political edge when she said that she was sorry if the fire had anything to do with the "undeserved negative attention" the church received during the presidential campaign. Not only do we not know who set the fire or why, it's a little creepy at least for Palin to imply that something political might have been the reason in her only public statement on the matter.

[leekohler]

Come on Lee. We're talking about a town of 5,000 people where everybody knows each other. And there were 5 women inside the church when it was started at the front door..Sounds to me like some wacko ran up to the church and started the fire then ran away. A local no doubt. And a local that's peeved off at the church. I know coincidences don't mean much in a large city but this is a tiny town here with a national figure at the center.

It's obvious to me.

Perhaps. But what if it was someone from somewhere else? Why assume it was someone local? Palin is a national figure, indeed. It could have come from anywhere, unless you know something that's not in the article. ;)

[Peace]

Perhaps. But what if it was someone from somewhere else? Why assume it was someone local? Plain is a national figure, indeed. It could have come from anywhere, unless you know something that's not in the article. ;)

Funny guy!!

My nick is Peace for a reason you know.;)

[leekohler]

Funny guy!!

My nick is Peace for a reason you know.;)

Well, I'm just saying I don't think it's at all obvious. Once Palin stepped onto the national stage, she got the attention of the whole country. This could have come from anywhere.

[hayduke]

Psalm 11:6 "Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest, this shall be the portion of their cup."

[iJohnHenry]

And there were 5 women inside the church when it was started at the front door.

Sounds to me like ...

... a cuckold husband of one of the 5. :p

[mgguy]

This was probably inspired by those on the left who were spewing hateful words against Palin during the campaign.:D

[obeygiant]

''Oh, jees. God thinks it's a hot idea if I run for president. Ain't that just swell'' Yuk yuk!

If this church was anything other than a Christian house of worship, and Palins church, people would be screaming "hate crime"....

I certainly don't think you'll find anyone condoning this despicable act of cowardice. It has nothing to do with it being a church or Palin being a member, it is wrong and people have expressed that.

és, you either have a bad sense of humor or a very short memory.

[leekohler]

Yuk yuk!





és, you either have a bad sense of humor or a very short memory.

Huh? What does that mean?

[obeygiant]

Huh? What does that mean?

You really can't figure it out?

[leekohler]

You really can't figure it out?

No- I don't see anyone here condoning this act.

[obeygiant]

No- I don't see anyone here condoning this act.

Leek, if I made jokes about a gay kid getting beat up you would let that slide because I'm not actually condoning it? :confused:

[IJ Reilly]

It seems to me that there's only one even slightly interesting political angle to talk about in relation to this church torching (Palin's reaction to it) -- and nobody wants to discuss it. Everything but that it seems. Funny how that works.

[Blue Velvet]

It seems to me that there's only one even slightly interesting political angle to talk about in relation to this church torching (Palin's reaction to it) -- and nobody wants to discuss it. Everything but that it seems. Funny how that works.


Before the fire service have even fully investigated it, everyone is jumping on the statement by the minister... and then Palin uses it to make a political point that smacks of political victimhood sending dog whistles galore to her adoring base. I know exactly where you're coming from.

[rdowns]

When I heard about this and read her statement, my first thought was, "you political whore..."

[és:]

Leek, if I made jokes about a gay kid getting beat up you would let that slide because I'm not actually condoning it? :confused:

Seriously, what are you going on about?

[mgguy]

Before the fire service have even fully investigated it, everyone is jumping on the statement by the minister... and then Palin uses it to make a political point that smacks of political victimhood sending dog whistles galore to her adoring base. I know exactly where you're coming from.

This rush to judgement is reminiscent of the political victimhood being proclaimed by many posting in this forum against McCain/Palin when threats were being made by whack-jobs against Obama. No one ever asked about the details of the threats and the investigation results by the Secret Service to determine whether they were related to the McCain/Palin campaign.

[és:]

This rush to judgement is reminiscent of the political victimhood being proclaimed by many posting in this forum against McCain/Palin when threats were being made by whack-jobs against Obama. No one ever asked about the details of the threats and the investigation results by the Secret Service to determine whether they were related to the McCain/Palin campaign.

The two incidents are completely different.

However, the article says that it was being treated as suspicious and that arson was a possibility. If that is the case then condemnation is fair and, as I said earlier, you will not find anybody here condoning it.

[EricNau]

This rush to judgement is reminiscent of the political victimhood being proclaimed by many posting in this forum against McCain/Palin when threats were being made by whack-jobs against Obama. No one ever asked about the details of the threats and the investigation results by the Secret Service to determine whether they were related to the McCain/Palin campaign.
This is a completely different situation, one that has yet to produce a threat or any evidence that could be deemed suspicious.

You can start pointing fingers when the investigation is complete and produces evidence to support your claims.

[.Andy]

Leek, if I made jokes about a gay kid getting beat up you would let that slide because I'm not actually condoning it? :confused:
If a gay cult house costing $1 million built for people to worship a mythical gaylord burnt down I'd be making jokes as well.


edit: my bets are on the fire starting from a jesus nativity candle.

[gilkisson]

This rush to judgement is reminiscent of the political victimhood being proclaimed by many posting in this forum against McCain/Palin when threats were being made by whack-jobs against Obama. No one ever asked about the details of the threats and the investigation results by the Secret Service to determine whether they were related to the McCain/Palin campaign.

Are you seriously attempting to implicate Obama and/or his campaign folks for starting this fire?

When the skinheads were caught plotting their assassination against Obama, I do not recall anyone leaping to tie them to McCain. No, it was obvious they were of the nutjob-crackpot variety.

I suspect the arsonist in this case will be a slobbering idiot as well -- if it even has a political motive at all.

[gilkisson]

If a gay cult house costing $1 million built for people to worship a mythical gaylord burnt down I'd be making jokes as well.


edit: my bets are on the fire starting from a jesus nativity candle.

now you done it -- this place it toast:

[.Andy]

now you done it -- this place it toast:
Email sent to Westboro baptist church ;).

[gilkisson]

Email sent to Westboro baptist church ;).

oooh, maybe they did it! Wouldn't put it past them.... bastards.

[iJohnHenry]

Although I dabbled in this thread it too, I see a lot of drivel here-about.

Let's wait for the Fire Marshall's report, shall we.

[glocke12]

That's terrible. My parent's house burned down a little over a month ago. It's one of the worst things that can happen. Let's hope they find whoever did it. It's fortunate no one was hurt.



Is that really all you have to say? My god, are you that cynical?

Yes....I just find it ironic that when something happens to a non-white, non-christian person/organization/building, it is labeled as a hate crime. yet when something happens to a white christian person/organization it usually is not labeled as a hate crime. If this church had been a black/muslim/jewish/gay place of worship/gathering the media (and people on this forum) would have labled it as a hate crime...

[mgguy]

Are you seriously attempting to implicate Obama and/or his campaign folks for starting this fire?

When the skinheads were caught plotting their assassination against Obama, I do not recall anyone leaping to tie them to McCain. No, it was obvious they were of the nutjob-crackpot variety.

I suspect the arsonist in this case will be a slobbering idiot as well -- if it even has a political motive at all.

I was just being as quick-to-judgement as many of those who posted similar accusations against McCain/Palin campaign when threats were made against Obama. Not to single her out, but I remember exchanging some posts with Blue Velvet regarding her claims that things McCain and Palin were saying about Obama's association with Ayers were the catalyst for the threats against Obama.

[rdowns]

I was just being as quick-to-judgement as many of those who posted similar accusations against McCain/Palin campaign when threats were made against Obama. Not to single her out, but I remember exchanging some posts with Blue Velvet regarding her claims that things McCain and Palin were saying about Obama's association with Ayers were the catalyst for the threats against Obama.

And the crowd reactions at Palin's campaign stops seem to back that up.

[EricNau]

Yes....I just find it ironic that when something happens to a non-white, non-christian person/organization/building, it is labeled as a hate crime. yet when something happens to a white christian person/organization it usually is not labeled as a hate crime. If this church had been a black/muslim/jewish/gay place of worship/gathering the media (and people on this forum) would have labled it as a hate crime...
There is no irony here; if this crime was motivated by race or religion, it will likewise be charged with a hate crime. However, if it was targeted at Palin specifically (as she seems to believe), it's not a hate crime.

You can't have it both ways.

[iJohnHenry]

Palin gives herself too much credit, as is usual with a beauty contestant.

I still say accidental.

[mgguy]

And the crowd reactions at Palin's campaign stops seem to back that up.

What specific reactions are you referring to? Just because there are comments made by someone in a crowd doesn't mean that it was McCain/Palin made them feel that way or say it. Perhaps they already held strong views against Obama before coming to the rally. If this is the level of logical reasoning that suffices to make a charge against McCain, then the same reasoning should be applied to those who have said bad things about Bush. It is, of course, an absurd argument on both sides.

[leekohler]

Yes....I just find it ironic that when something happens to a non-white, non-christian person/organization/building, it is labeled as a hate crime. yet when something happens to a white christian person/organization it usually is not labeled as a hate crime. If this church had been a black/muslim/jewish/gay place of worship/gathering the media (and people on this forum) would have labled it as a hate crime...

And I find it odd that you still have yet to utter one word of sympathy regarding this situation. Rather than be glad that we all find this to be wrong, all you can do is complain that no one labeled it a hate crime. The glass is always half empty for you, isn't it?

[gilkisson]

I was just being as quick-to-judgement as many of those who posted similar accusations against McCain/Palin campaign when threats were made against Obama. Not to single her out, but I remember exchanging some posts with Blue Velvet regarding her claims that things McCain and Palin were saying about Obama's association with Ayers were the catalyst for the threats against Obama.

That is not what you were trying to say, it seems to me. You were trying to tie this crime directly to Obama, a la Watergate. That's what I wanted to clear up.

[mgguy]

That is not what you were trying to say, it seems to me. You were trying to tie this crime directly to Obama, a la Watergate. That's what I wanted to clear up.

I was making a "tongue-in-cheek" statement equivalent to what people have been saying in prior posts claiming that McCain was responsible for the threats against Obama. Equally absurd. I'm sorry you didn't pick up on my sarcasm and thought that I actually believe that Obama was responsible.

[gilkisson]

I was making a "tongue-in-cheek" statement equivalent to what people have been saying in prior posts claiming that McCain was responsible for the threats against Obama. Equally absurd. I'm sorry you didn't pick up on my sarcasm and thought that I actually believe that Obama was responsible.

I guess I don't see where those "equivalent statements" were made. It still sounds like making Palin into a martyr, a victim of the evil that has taken over the country.

What will you say if the police find the fire was started by the town drunk? Will you demand his biography and background, to make sure he isn't a Democrat "plant"?

[mgguy]

I guess I don't see where those "equivalent statements" were made. It still sounds like making Palin into a martyr, a victim of the evil that has taken over the country.

What will you say if the police find the fire was started by the town drunk? Will you demand his biography and background, to make sure he isn't a Democrat "plant"?

Alright, I can see that you still don't understand that I agree with you. I have no reason to believe that the fire was started by a Democrat, in the same way that I don't believe all the threats made against Obama were made by a Republican. If you read some of the threads about McCain/Palin accusations about Obama paling around with terrorists and the like, you will find plenty of examples of unproven accusations that the McCain campaign was responsible for the hateful words and threats against Obama. Just trying to keep it balanced.

[gilkisson]

Alright, I can see that you still don't understand that I agree with you. I have no reason to believe that the fire was started by a Democrat, in the same way that I don't believe all the threats made against Obama were made by a Republican. If you read some of the threads about McCain/Palin accusations about Obama paling around with terrorists and the like, you will find plenty of examples of unproven accusations that the McCain campaign was responsible for the hateful words and threats against Obama. Just trying to keep it balanced.

Ah, I see. Tit for tat, eye for an eye. Kid down the street got a red ball for Christmas, so you need to make sure it's fair.

If it was wrong of "them" to make these accusations, why is it now OK for you to do the same thing?

How about you lead by example, remain above the temptation, and take the high road?

[mgguy]

Ah, I see. Tit for tat, eye for an eye. Kid down the street got a red ball for Christmas, so you need to make sure it's fair.

If it was wrong of "them" to make these accusations, why is it now OK for you to do the same thing?

How about you lead by example, remain above the temptation, and take the high road?

You still don't get it. Let me try again. I WAS NOT SERIOUS ABOUT THE ACCUSATION I MADE. I WAS BEING SARCASTIC TO MAKE A POINT. Sorry for shouting, but maybe that will get through to you better.

[glocke12]

There is no irony here; if this crime was motivated by race or religion, it will likewise be charged with a hate crime. However, if it was targeted at Palin specifically (as she seems to believe), it's not a hate crime.

You can't have it both ways.

and if it was targeted at a person of color, it would more than likely be classified as a hate crime...

[glocke12]

And I find it odd that you still have yet to utter one word of sympathy regarding this situation. Rather than be glad that we all find this to be wrong, all you can do is complain that no one labeled it a hate crime. The glass is always half empty for you, isn't it?

Not at all. I think its terrible..and my first thoughts were of the people lucky enough to get out in time without injury.

You find my reaction odd, yet you dont find the sarcasm in many of the posts here odd and distasteful?

[gilkisson]

You still don't get it. Let me try again. I WAS NOT SERIOUS ABOUT THE ACCUSATION I MADE. I WAS BEING SARCASTIC TO MAKE A POINT. Sorry for shouting, but maybe that will get through to you better.

Oh, I get it. You were not being sarcastic. You were quite serious. You're just backing down now.

But I will take you at face value now. Fine, you now say the arson isn't politcally motivated. If it wasn't being seriously investigated, then you would have something to shout about. But it is being investigated, fully. So lets see what comes of that.

[IJ Reilly]

Before the fire service have even fully investigated it, everyone is jumping on the statement by the minister... and then Palin uses it to make a political point that smacks of political victimhood sending dog whistles galore to her adoring base. I know exactly where you're coming from.

Yes, precisely -- thank you.

Ironically, it's quite possible that the fire had some sort of political motivation, we will have to see about that. But Palin seemingly could not resist tipping her tin ear in the direction of making a political statement out of what currently is an unsolved crime.

[mgguy]

Yes, precisely -- thank you.

Ironically, it's quite possible that the fire had some sort of political motivation, we will have to see about that. But Palin seemingly could not resist tipping her tin ear in the direction of making a political statement out of what currently is an unsolved crime.

Again, this is precisely what many in these forums did when they concluded that the McCain linkage of Obama with Ayers is what lead to the threats against Obama that the Secret Service began investigating. The investigations into those threats had just begun when many posters (including Blue Velvet in a post responding to me) blamed the threats on McCain and said that he was somehow responsible. Some in the Obama campaign had similar condemnations for McCain for basically saying the same things that Hillary said about Obama and his link to admitted terrorists.

[IJ Reilly]

Sorry, not interested in the culture wars. I was making just the point I was making.

[leekohler]

and if it was targeted at a person of color, it would more than likely be classified as a hate crime...

It still could be. But no one has been caught yet. It can't be classified as a hate crime if no one knows who did it and no one knows the motive, now can it? What about this case so far merits the label hate crime? Do you know something about the fire that we don't?

Not at all. I think its terrible..and my first thoughts were of the people lucky enough to get out in time without injury.

You find my reaction odd, yet you dont find the sarcasm in many of the posts here odd and distasteful?

Wow- talk about putting words in my mouth. I find your reaction odd because you directly lashed out at everyone here for no reason. You started going on and on about expecting everyone to classify this as a hate crime, even though we have no idea what the motive is, but don't comment on the situation itself? Yes, I find that extremely odd. Basically, you used this to attack the members here instead of commenting on the situation. That was the first thing you saw fit to post. I find that rather unfortunate, and also indicative of what motivates you to post here.

As for people making jokes- whatever. People make jokes all the time.

[zap2]

and if it was targeted at a person of color, it would more than likely be classified as a hate crime...

That depends,was this victim(the person of color) attacked because of his or her color,or was it another reason, and the race thing was just by chance

[mgguy]

Sorry, not interested in the culture wars. I was making just the point I was making.

I apologize if I came off a bit strong. I understand the point you were making and accept it.

[EricNau]

and if it was targeted at a person of color, it would more than likely be classified as a hate crime...
That's completely false.

Hate crimes are based solely on motive and evidence; one is only charged with a hate crime if the criminal act was motivated by the victim's race or religion, regardless of what race or religion the victim may be.

There is no inherent irony or inequality in this situation.

[obeygiant]

(ANCHORAGE, Alaska) An accelerant was poured around the exterior of Gov. Sarah Palin's church before fire heavily damaged the building, federal investigators said Monday. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said the accelerant was poured at several locations around the church, including entrances.

Lab tests will determine the type of substance involved. Possibilities include gasoline, kerosene, diesel fuel or even lamp oil, Agent Nick Starcevic said.

The blaze was set Friday night at the main entrance of the Wasilla Bible Church while a small group, including two children, were inside. No one was injured. Fire authorities were called to the scene at 9:40 p.m., unusually early for many arsonfires, Starcevic said.link (http://www.newsweek.com/id/174696)

[.Andy]

link (http://www.newsweek.com/id/174696)
That sucks. Hopefully they catch the coward(s) that did this. They could have easily killed someone.

[leekohler]

That sucks. Hopefully they catch the coward(s) that did this. They could have easily killed someone.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with people? Burning a church is pretty low.

[mactastic]

If this church was anything other than a Christian house of worship, and Palins church, people would be screaming "hate crime"....
Funny... you've been screaming about "hate crimes" this whole thread. Guess you've proven yourself wrong, eh?