iPhone Developer Success Stories Continue to Inspire

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/16/iphone-developer-success-stories-continue-to-inspire/)

Most developers will tell you that getting rich quickly through an iPhone App is the exception, but the stories of those who do continue to inspire many. Newsweek profiles (http://www.newsweek.com/id/174266) some of the biggest winners of the App Store at this early stage.

Ge Wang is the developer behind Smule (http://smule.com/) who has created a number of $0.99 applications, the most popular of which is Ocarina (http://appshopper.com/music/ocarina), a virtual musical wind instrument (video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhCJq7EAJJA)). Ocarina has seen over 400,000 downloads in less than a month and remains in the Top 10 Paid iPhone Apps (http://appshopper.com/bestsellers/paid). Wang expects his company to pull in close to $1 million this year.

Pangea Software (http://www.pangeasoft.net/) is another company that has been able to find huge success on the App Store. As a long time Mac developer, Pangea was able to leverage several of their existing titles into popular iPhone Apps. Games such as Cro-Mag Rally (http://appshopper.com/games/cro-mag-rally) and Enigmo (http://appshopper.com/games/enigmo) will help Pangea generate $5 million in revenue this year. Pangea's Brian Greenstone notes that in the past four and a half months, Pangea's iPhone apps have generated more income than retail sales of all of Pangea's apps for the Mac for the past 21 years combined. It's no surprise that Pangea has given up writing Mac games and will focus entirely on the iPhone from now on. Greenstone says this sort of success is within anyone's reach:"Some kid in his bedroom can literally make a million bucks just by writing a little app," Greenstone says.

Article Link: iPhone Developer Success Stories Continue to Inspire (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/16/iphone-developer-success-stories-continue-to-inspire/)

[oshoel]

If only I had the skills :(

[InkMaster]

"Some kid in his bedroom can literally make a million bucks just by writing a little app," Greenstone says.

There is of course only 1 in a million chance :p

[SFStateStudent]

So what, no more games for Macs? Whatever happened to "doing something for the love of doing it?" Are Ge Wang and Pangea Software, the Curt Flood of the Mac App Industry? I need to barf...:eek:

[holmesf]

As an iPhone developer I'm tired of seeing these types of stories published. Yes, a few people are making lots and lots of money, but in general the market is incredibly saturated with junk apps and new-comers will probably not like the situation they find there. Please, listen to other, less successful developers, the majority of which are just struggling to hold on in this insane marketplace apple has devised, and stop this gold rush! Stories like this only encourage more junk apps!

[Doctor Q]

Not every developer is going to be as successful, but news about the big winners will certainly inspire more established Mac developers and brand new developers to give iPhone application development a shot.

With the increased quantity of apps, we'll get more that are worthwhile as well as more than aren't.

[tkidBOSTON]

It's no surprise that Pangea has given up writing Mac games and will focus entirely on the iPhone from now on. Greenstone says this sort of success is within anyone's reach:


Well thats not a good thing.

Lets hope this is an isolated occurance.

[fendol]

Some kid in his bedroom can literally make a million bucks just by writing a little app," Greenstone says.

My guess is that "some kid" needs to be very knowledgeable in programming and love his work with passion to come up with something all by himself. I'm glad it's turning out ok for some folks, especially those that have been making Mac games for 21 years. Now that's persistence :Dhttp://seoagora.com/img/459/k08q1024glza/ecstatic.gifhttp://seoagora.com/img/589/d08l1104oulu/smiley2.gif

[yalag]

Well thats not a good thing.

Lets hope this is an isolated occurance.

I friggin hate stories like this. One in a 10,000 app made it to the top, draws the attention a million developers wannabe. And appstore turns into the biggest pile of crap. All users are forced to sift through pile and pile of junk to find a gem.

[JS77]

As an iPhone developer I'm tired of seeing these types of stories published. Yes, a few people are making lots and lots of money, but in general the market is incredibly saturated with junk apps and new-comers will probably not like the situation they find there. Please, listen to other, less successful developers, the majority of which are just struggling to hold on in this insane marketplace apple has devised, and stop this gold rush! Stories like this only encourage more junk apps!

Totally Agree... I can't comment on the Apps mentioned in this article as I've not used them but for the most part, the App store is saturated with pointless and completely useless "Apps".

[B1gMac]

If I were a developer, I would be strongly urging Apple to allow the use of the iPhone with more service providers (Verizon, Sprint). More potential customers will help all of the developers. The problem right now is that there is a bigger barrier to entry for consumers than there is for producers.

Also, I really think there needs to be a better system for searching through applications. I also hope that there would be a way to show a list of the all-time best sellers. Along with possibly what is best selling (cumulative) this year.

Another possible way that we could encourage fair pricing of apps is to have a ranking of best selling apps that is weighted by price. Therefore, those who price their application optimally and get the best price X sales figure will be rewarded.

[holmesf]

Not every developer is going to be as successful, but news about the big winners will certainly inspire more established Mac developers and brand new developers to give iPhone application development a shot.

With the increased quantity of apps, we'll get more that are worthwhile as well as more than aren't.

Perhaps not. When you saturate the iTunes app store with many junk apps and small minority of really worthwhile stuff, with only the very top apps receiving additional promotion from Apple, what you get is a situation where quality apps and low-quality apps get roughly equal promotion. The result is of this situation is that the most economic incentive exists for a developer to create a huge number of low quality applications. I'm afraid that if Apple doesn't change the structure of the store, pretty soon developers will only be able to get by by turning out a large quantity of low-value applications.

Most people don't understand how bad the situation really is.

[wesg]

And that is why I am learning Cocoa and Objective C. I need to pay for University!

[crees!]

So what, no more games for Macs? Whatever happened to "doing something for the love of doing it?" Are Ge Wang and Pangea Software, the Curt Flood of the Mac App Industry? I need to barf...:eek:

Then there's also the reality of business; sustaining and growth.

[Unspeaked]

I'm glad it's turning out ok for some folks, especially those that have been making Mac games for 21 years. Now that's persistence :D

I think you mean those that had been making Mac games for 21 years.

[Littleodie914]

Then there's also the reality of business; sustaining and growth.That's a good point. It's certainly a two-sided coin; you need to care about what you're doing, but it's often very difficult to do it for free for any extended period of time.

I say kudos to the kids who make millions off this, but I hope that they realize that there's more to it than the money, and I certainly hope that they don't think that the industry will work that way in every (or nearly any) situation.

[DipDog3]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

The kid in the bedroom needs a great marketing plan along with a great app to just make it.

These people are more lucky than anything else.

[Mal]

If only I had the skills :(

I don't think skill is the issue. Sure, you have to learn how to code an app properly, but that you can learn if you put a little time into it. I think the biggest thing in making a successful app is coming up with something that is both unique and either entertaining or useful (depending on the intended goal). From there, of course the second most important thing is marketing. The actual coding is really not a big deal in the process of making a million dollar company from an iPhone app.

jW

[detz]

I don't think skill is the issue. Sure, you have to learn how to code an app properly, but that you can learn if you put a little time into it. I think the biggest thing in making a successful app is coming up with something that is both unique and either entertaining or useful (depending on the intended goal). From there, of course the second most important thing is marketing. The actual coding is really not a big deal in the process of making a million dollar company from an iPhone app.

jW

I agree with this 90%. The idea has to be unique and work well on the iPhone but the target audience has to be correct too. There are so many young people with iPhone's and iPod touches that a quality "adult" application doesn't get much tration where useless cheap programs like Pull my finger do.

[schneb]

If I were a developer, I would be strongly urging Apple to allow the use of the iPhone with more service providers (Verizon, Sprint).
If they would allow Pay-As-You-Go, I would drop my iPod Touch and buy an iPhone today.

[MacTheSpoon]

I gotta say, I am really impressed and entertained by all the cool apps that people are coming up with. Keep 'em coming! :)

[ivladster]

I think Apple will fix this whole problem with developers. They just need to make better App Store and expand it into Apple TV and Macs.

[ztigerpaw]

If I ever get into App Developing for the iPhone/Touch, the intension will be for fun. Both on my side & the consumers.

I've also noticed a increase in ports like Katamari and the upcoming Sim City (DO WANT x2 EXTREME!!!!!). That are preetty dang impressive compared to the early line ups. Which will give the PSP a run for its money next year no doubt. ;)

I think Apple will fix this whole problem with developers. They just need to make better App Store and expand it into Apple TV and Macs.

If they expand app development to the Apple TV, then you basically got yourself the next PlayStation.

[swarmster]

Perhaps not. When you saturate the iTunes app store with many junk apps and small minority of really worthwhile stuff, with only the very top apps receiving additional promotion from Apple, what you get is a situation where quality apps and low-quality apps get roughly equal promotion. The result is of this situation is that the most economic incentive exists for a developer to create a huge number of low quality applications. I'm afraid that if Apple doesn't change the structure of the store, pretty soon developers will only be able to get by by turning out a large quantity of low-value applications.

Most people don't understand how bad the situation really is.


How is this situation different from any kind of store? A retail store like Target advertises a few choice products every week in a circular and otherwise it's up to the product manufacturer to externally advertise and get people to be aware of and want their product.

When is the last time you saw an ad for an iPhone app paid for by the app maker? Have you ever seen a magazine or newspaper ad advertising a company's new iPhone app? Why do iPhone devs think Apple owes it to them to do all their marketing for them? Putting your product on a retailer's shelf is not sufficient.

A lot of the most successful games (besides being fun) give places like Touch Arcade press releases and/or review copies and get the word out there. I can't remember the last time I browsed the App Store and its "top 10" or "top 100" lists, but I've bought a lot of great games that have been marketed toward me through sites like that.

[BornAgainMac]

I don't think skill is the issue. Sure, you have to learn how to code an app properly, but that you can learn if you put a little time into it. I think the biggest thing in making a successful app is coming up with something that is both unique and either entertaining or useful (depending on the intended goal). From there, of course the second most important thing is marketing. The actual coding is really not a big deal in the process of making a million dollar company from an iPhone app.

jW

The point the poster is making is that if they are really good ideas and marketing, they can't do something some programmers take for granted such as making the actual iPhone App. (Even Hello World!)

I can see some iPhone Developers that are very skilled but are terrible in the idea department.

[bretm]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

The kid in the bedroom needs a great marketing plan along with a great app to just make it.

These people are more lucky than anything else.

You keep thinking everyone that is successful is just lucky and you sure never will be. Iit's a mindset that will cripple your success in life. They might be a better programmer than you. They might be more creative than you. And sure, some are lucky. Good for them.

[Substance]

Maybe one should consider the possibility that the pricing structure for software is antiquated and not serving the developer as well as it could. I've realized that I have far more games on my iPhone than I do on my Mac.

Why?

Because iPhone games are cheap. Many are a buck, some of the better ones are $5, and at most maybe $10. Granted I'm only looking at puzzle and brief time-waster games games, which tend to be the ones dominated by shareware developers anyways. Not RPG epics and video-card-crushing first-person shooters which charge the big bucks. But even those puzzle games on the Mac desktop cost at least $15 and often over $20. For that price I'm not buying.

At $5 and less (I tend to stick with $1 games) I'm willing to buy several apps knowing that if one is a dud, I've got several more to choose from. And it's working. The lower entry price on iPhone games is getting me to buy a lot more whereas on the desktop side I've just sat out and played solitare or emulators.

[dolphin842]

I wonder if the recession will put the brakes on this gold rush next year... just as thousands of young, budding developers begin to invest their time and effort getting to know the platform. Quite a bit of disillusionment down the road, perhaps...

[bretm]

I think Apple will fix this whole problem with developers. They just need to make better App Store and expand it into Apple TV and Macs.

Yes. But if they do so it will be to increase Apple's bottom line. To bring in better apps to increase sales to increase their cut. That's their job.

[bretm]

There is of course only 1 in a million chance :p

I guess it's more like a 1 in 10,000 chance, huh? So, let's see, a little hard work and you have a possibility of making a million. Seems to be a better bet than buying a lottery ticket of which the odds are as close to zero as you get.

And of the 10,000, some make millions, some make an extra 10 grand a year and some pull in a few hundred bucks a month extra. It's all good. Other than the labor to make the app, if you make it yourself, there aren't many costs involved. Successes like this will definitely help the economy move forward.

[baleensavage]

It's no surprise that Pangea has given up writing Mac games and will focus entirely on the iPhone from now on.

Well now I know whose iPhone games I won't be buying. :mad: Big jeers to Pangea for deserting so many years of Mac gaming for a quick buck. Let's hope that others don't follow their lead.

[bytethese]

"Some kid in his bedroom can literally make a million bucks just by writing a little app," Greenstone says.


Once the semester is over, I am going to try to write 2 apps I have ideas for before next sem starts. :)

[Unspeaked]

Well now I know whose iPhone games I won't be buying. :mad: Big jeers to Pangea for deserting so many years of Mac gaming for a quick buck. Let's hope that others don't follow their lead.

I agree; I hope that line was just misquoted or the intent misinterpreted. It doesn't make sense to me that Pangea would simply abandon the Mac OS X platform, especially due to additional success with a related platform.

If things were that bad on the Mac, why did they stick around so long before the App Store?

[Ted13]

If I were a developer, I would be strongly urging Apple to allow the use of the iPhone with more service providers (Verizon, Sprint). More potential customers will help all of the developers. The problem right now is that there is a bigger barrier to entry for consumers than there is for producers.
Here we go again: Yes, I think that Apple should sell full priced (no subsidy) fully unlocked iPhones.

But they still wouldn't work on Verizon or Sprint's networks, because they use the obsolete CDMA standard. Until the incompatibility ends with 4G, you will not see a Verizon or Sprint iPhone. Being GPS allows the iPhone to work in Europe which is far more important.

The one thing the iTunes App store isn't lacking is customers: 300,000,000 downloads! More iPhones sold than Razors (or all Blackberry models combined) in the last quarter plus untold amounts of iPod Touches... iPhone App developers may have problems -- but lack of customers isn't one of them.

[kdarling]

And of the 10,000, some make millions, some make an extra 10 grand a year and some pull in a few hundred bucks a month extra. It's all good.

That's like saying, if you make $1 an hour, then it's just as good as getting $100 an hour. It's definitely not the same if you want to see quality apps.

Other than the labor to make the app, if you make it yourself, there aren't many costs involved. ...

Other than the labor you do for your daily job, there aren't many costs, either. Oh wait, yes there are. Your house, car, insurance, utilities, food etc while you're creating the app. :)

So that's the whole point. Is it worth chancing the labor to make the app. For kids with no bills, or those with angel financing, yes. For those of us who already make a very good living, it's a big decision to put divert major effort into a free lance project... as much as we might want to.

It's no different anywhere, mind you, but I'm responding to the apparent idea that software is free to make. It's not.

[alexbates]

I am only 14, so I am kind of new to all of this. I have had an interest in developing for the App Store since it first came out. I know it requires the iPhone SDK, and I have used it before (mainly played around with the iPhone simulator). The one thing that I am concerned about is time.
- Does anyone know how much code writing is required (3000, 300 or 30 line Xcode file) or can you copy and paste a lot of it from online articles?
- How much Cocoa do you need to have learned and be able to write with? I have mainly focused on writing in Ruby but I do have some expirience with Cocoa.
- Do most developers spend months and months writing one individual Application? Again, I am checking to see what kind of time I would have to put in this?

[kdarling]

The one thing the iTunes App store isn't lacking is customers: 300,000,000 downloads!

300 million / 10,000 apps = only 30,000 downloads per app (obviously very skewed, but you get the idea. Some get lots, some get few. Mostly free apps, no doubt. And many of those deleted afterwards.)

Big numbers are impressive.

There have been one million downloads of free Opera Mini from GetJar.com, a smartphone app source that's not well known.

There have been one million downloads of the free My Space app for Blackberries in the past month.

10 million people with dumb phones have downloaded the Verizon music id application in the past year. (Now THAT is a surprising number.)

Just saying... :)

[Doctor Q]

Perhaps not. When you saturate the iTunes app store with many junk apps and small minority of really worthwhile stuff, with only the very top apps receiving additional promotion from Apple, what you get is a situation where quality apps and low-quality apps get roughly equal promotion. The result is of this situation is that the most economic incentive exists for a developer to create a huge number of low quality applications. I'm afraid that if Apple doesn't change the structure of the store, pretty soon developers will only be able to get by by turning out a large quantity of low-value applications.
I think that the practical solution is to make it easier to find the best applications, not to try to prevent developers from making lower-quality applications. In the same way, it's not practical to prevent people from creating web sites none of us would find interesting, but it's not a problem as long as nobody links to them! Many tools could help us find the best iPhone/iPod touch applications, among them professional and user reviews, ratings, help from Apple, and good methods of retrieval.

[sangosimo]

their are always stories like this for every software platform, but for every success their is 9,999 failures.

[Hattig]

Well now I know whose iPhone games I won't be buying. :mad: Big jeers to Pangea for deserting so many years of Mac gaming for a quick buck. Let's hope that others don't follow their lead.

I don't call waiting over 20 years to make money "a quick buck".

[Hattig]

I am only 14, so I am kind of new to all of this. I have had an interest in developing for the App Store since it first came out. I know it requires the iPhone SDK, and I have used it before (mainly played around with the iPhone simulator). The one thing that I am concerned about is time.
- Does anyone know how much code writing is required (3000, 300 or 30 line Xcode file) or can you copy and paste a lot of it from online articles?
- Do most developers spend months and months writing one individual Application? Again, I am checking to see what kind of time I would have to put in this?

Depends on the scale of your application.

Setting up a screen is easy in Cocoa (and Cocoa Touch from the articles I've seen) but that's library convenience code. A simple 2D game would be drawing onto a canvas which you would need to control every aspect of - the lines of code could go up drastically. Tetris could be a few hundred to a few thousand lines and that quite simple - and that's only the block bin. Something 3D will be a lot more (even though a lot of that is in the OpenGL libraries, all the GL commands take up a lot of code, and it isn't a simple API).

Time, that's the problem we all have if we want to develop something beyond a shopping list or very simple game.

[torneko]

As a student who are majoring in computer science, I'm really happy about this news!!!

I felt a developer is just like an music artist whose songs are being sold in iTunes Store.

Better songs - more buyers.. better apps - more buyers too!

Steve Jobs gave developers or companies these opportunities!!!

[hypermark]

I think that the practical solution is to make it easier to find the best applications, not to try to prevent developers from making lower-quality applications. In the same way, it's not practical to prevent people from creating web sites none of us would find interesting, but it's not a problem as long as nobody links to them! Many tools could help us find the best iPhone/iPod touch applications, among them professional and user reviews, ratings, help from Apple, and good methods of retrieval.

Bingo. Personally, it's ridiculous to hear people bitch and moan about crap apps or how hard it is for developers. Give me ample supply and better tools to filter out the crap or stuff that I am not interested in, and I am happy.

On the developer front, yeah most people won't become millionaires from the App Store marketplace. What was the better alternative before? The truth is that some developers will find the balance between compellingness and quality, and marketing savvy and some won't.

The best will build brands (oh, I am going to grab the Freeverse bowling game instead of the SGN bowling game because I like their stuff and all of my account/social data is integrated), and become sizable businesses.

Over time, more App Store variants will proliferate on other platforms (Blackberries, Playstations, XBoxes, Palms, etc.), growing the addressable market and driving competitive-factored innovation.

Give me a choice between surplus and scarcity and I will choose surplus every day.

There is a truism that when items shift from scarcity to commodity, tremendous wealth is created, and more innovation occurs.

This truth is made crystal clear every time my six year old asks where the other games are on my Blackberry, and I explain to him that my iPod touch has wings and my BB doesn't.

Mark

[russellb]

I dont want to dump on all those hard working people getting Iphone apps to us all. But I have to sort of agree with an article I read recently.

The App store is like any other market and there is a difference between putting your App there and selling your App.

Apple is not there to market your Apps , it is there to distribute them. It is up to developers to find ways to market their apps.

But i agree that it's a pain to sift your way through all the piles of junk apps

[morespce54]

Man, I wish I was that kid... ;)

[russellelly]

As I'm writing an App now (albeit one which will never go on App Store) it's quite inspirational to read these kind of stories. I hope I can get something worth charging for on it at some point!

[fbboi999]

I wish I had a Mac and knew how to program.

I would love to do it. But no mac + no experience = no apps.

Not to mention I have NO IDEA how to do any marketing...

[macFanDave]

Are they going to mention the persistence involved in the success of "Pull My Finger?"

That story is heartwarming!

[sflocal]

As an iPhone developer I'm tired of seeing these types of stories published. Yes, a few people are making lots and lots of money, but in general the market is incredibly saturated with junk apps and new-comers will probably not like the situation they find there. Please, listen to other, less successful developers, the majority of which are just struggling to hold on in this insane marketplace apple has devised, and stop this gold rush! Stories like this only encourage more junk apps!

Or maybe, it should encourage YOU to make better apps.

[twoodcc]

wow. i've got to get some apps out there!

[holmesf]

Because Apple controls application distribution 100%. I hear people coming up with "stop whining, that's how the free market works" type arguments all the time. But the iTunes application store is not a free market -- it is the sole method of distribution and so its policies most directly affect what types of applications get developed.

What happens is not that your applications gets put up on the shelves and then you need to market it, rather your application is put up on the shelves while a plethora of other products, mostly junk, are quickly stacked on top of it making it impossible for customers to find. If iPhone apps actually operated in a free market, the iTunes app store would be pressured by other iPhone application distribution sources to improve their policies. Instead developers are forced to game these policies, and the problem gets worse.

It's true that you can market the app outside of the store -- and trust me, I have. But none of this makes as much impact as apple's policies in the iTunes app store itself. Once you're a developer, you will know what it means to go from page 1 to page 2 on the product lists, or from the top 100 list to nowhere land -- it means no more sales.

Besides, if Apple could come up with a policy that encourages high quality applications to be developed, and lets developers waste less time on marketing (I'm a programmer, not a marketer!) that's beneficial for everybody.

How is this situation different from any kind of store? A retail store like Target advertises a few choice products every week in a circular and otherwise it's up to the product manufacturer to externally advertise and get people to be aware of and want their product.

When is the last time you saw an ad for an iPhone app paid for by the app maker? Have you ever seen a magazine or newspaper ad advertising a company's new iPhone app? Why do iPhone devs think Apple owes it to them to do all their marketing for them? Putting your product on a retailer's shelf is not sufficient.

A lot of the most successful games (besides being fun) give places like Touch Arcade press releases and/or review copies and get the word out there. I can't remember the last time I browsed the App Store and its "top 10" or "top 100" lists, but I've bought a lot of great games that have been marketed toward me through sites like that.

[holmesf]

Or maybe, it should encourage YOU to make better apps.

You've missed the point entirely. My goal as a developer is to make applications that my customers will buy and keep around for a long time. And I'm happy to say that's what I've done. The problem is that to keep making good applications instead of junk applications, there needs to be enough incentive to produce the good stuff.

Unfortunately, Apple's policies, which includes gives more or less equal promotion to both good and junk applications (with a handful exceptions that receive very good promotion) as well as equal promotion to new applications and updated applications has some bad ramifications:

- Developers are encouraged to create as many applications as possible. Instead of creating one good game, for example, the policy encourages them to produce a set of 4 mini-games.

- Developers are encouraged to produce "junk apps". Afterall, these apps will receive roughly equal promotion as good apps.

- Developers are encouraged to game the system by producing useless updates to their applications in order to be placed back on the front page.

- Developers are encouraged to game the system by dishonestly introducing a product as free, then ramping up the price once the game has hit the top 100 or top 10 list.

All of these effects are negative towards the end user. Moreover, they have a snowballing effect. As more and more junk and novelty apps roll in, high quality applications receive less and less promotion.

Also, while the dramatic drop in prices of iPhone apps over the months does have something to do with free-market competition, it also has a lot to do with the limited ability developers have to market their application in the iTunes store (ex. no movies). Sure, developers could market elsewhere, but unlike us power users, most users just look in the store for apps.

I do not know exactly how I would change the iTunes application store if given the chance. Certainly I would not want to get rid of the Democratic element where anyone can release an application, but Apple really needs to address the issues I've mentioned. It's hurting both their developers and negatively affecting the user experience.

[bytethese]

- Developers are encouraged...
- Developers are encouraged...
- Developers are encouraged...
- Developers are encouraged...


Developers, developers, developers, developers!!!
/Ballmer :)

[kdarling]

Why do iPhone devs think Apple owes it to them to do all their marketing for them? .

Why? Because of the 30% they take. When a contracted (and in this case, sole) distributor takes a percentage, it's usually greatly / partly in exchange for advertising.

The trouble in this case is, the sole distributor is also the distributor for ALL iphone apps.

[holmesf]

Developers, developers, developers, developers!!!
/Ballmer :)

Heh.

[hypermark]

.

Why? Because of the 30% they take. When a contracted (and in this case, sole) distributor takes a percentage, it's usually greatly / partly in exchange for advertising.

The trouble in this case is, the sole distributor is also the distributor for ALL iphone apps.

This is one of those statements of having never had to count on other indirect channels to sell your products.

My friends in the iPhone Developer universe that sell/sold their products through retail and other channels consider the iPhone App Store model to be manna from heaven in terms of margin, reach and control.

It's like US-style democracy. It's sucks until compared to all other forms of government.

My only point is get over the premise of 100% free market as that is not what Apple provides. By same token, the alternative is an indifferent channel that provides zippo to drive monetization for you.

Lots of experience on this one, and the margin, reach and control factor is significant. Would I like to have my cake and eat it too? Sure, but that's not the real world.

That said, it's critical that developers use these forums to drum beat on the specifics that are reasoned to separate the wheat from the chaffe, as the model is unquestionably a work in progress.

[kdarling]

This is one of those statements of having never had to count on other indirect channels to sell your products.

I sold my first commercial home computer applications back in 1982, through indirect channels. I understand the sales, royalty and marketing aspects.

My friends in the iPhone Developer universe that sell/sold their products through retail and other channels consider the iPhone App Store model to be manna from heaven in terms of margin, reach and control.

No doubt that's true, but they're still missing having their app promoted on its own merits, which again I point out is a normal reason for giving up a percentage. Instead, as pointed out by others, the programmers must game the system to do the marketing they paid for.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, and I think that the App Store is a great idea in principle. I just think it needs some competition to help refine it. Another outlet, where people could buy advertising, perhaps. Not sure yet. Just throwing out ideas. But it would have to come on the phone like the App Store does.

Thoughts?

[hypermark]

I sold my first commercial home computer applications back in 1982, through indirect channels. I understand the sales, royalty and marketing aspects.

No doubt that's true, but they're still missing having their app promoted on its own merits, which again I point out is a normal reason for giving up a percentage. Instead, as pointed out by others, the programmers must game the system to do the marketing they paid for.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, and I think that the App Store is a great idea in principle. I just think it needs some competition to help refine it. Another outlet, where people could buy advertising, perhaps. Not sure yet. Just throwing out ideas. But it would have to come on the phone like the App Store does.

I stand corrected then. Sorry. You actually go go back further than I (1993). :-)

For what it's worth, I just blogged on the inevitability of competition and the need for it. While it seems inevitable that Apple will be THE sole App Store for the foreseeable future, from a marketing and community perspective, someone else is destined to plug in to bridge some of the gaps that you reference.

The App Store app placement conundrum frankly is analogous to when Google changes their SEO algorithms. Real blood spills in the streets. Here, the impact on the individual developer is arguably more profound (since you are dealing with lost full dollar transactions versus incremental lost paid clicks).

A legitimate side question is whether Apple would ever allow an iPhone App that bridges some of this gap. Clearly, they couldn't preclude a web app but Apple has shown great willingness to block things they consider in their domain (I am not editorializing right or wrong, just wondering aloud).

Cheers.

Mark

[oticon6]

The point the poster is making is that if they are really good ideas and marketing, they can't do something some programmers take for granted such as making the actual iPhone App. (Even Hello World!)

I can see some iPhone Developers that are very skilled but are terrible in the idea department.

And even more that have neither skill nor creativity...

I'm in the situation where I have the skill... and I've built a game engine... but I can't find anyone good enough to make decent graphics :mad: It's so annoying... I'm at a university, and the only people capable here are either overconfident of their skills (but really not that good) or completely unmotivated.

[MacFly123]

I think Apple will fix this whole problem with developers. They just need to make better App Store and expand it into Apple TV and Macs.

This is what it will be like in the future for software I think. There will be an App Store on the Mac and Apple TV and we will buy and download all our software through there :) I can't wait till that happens, and I do think that would help push for much more elaborate and well made functional apps.

P.S. I have heard things about Microsoft already working on a software delivery system like that for Windows and the Xbox. Anyone know more about that?

Everything is going to the cloud eventually and we will be even more dependent on technology that could easily crash and have big ramifications on life haha, kinda scary.

[PowerFullMac]

This is why I'm learning Objective-C, I'm gonna try and do a game coz it's the best way to get the cash... Huge market for games, there is!

MacFly123, App Store on Macs would not be a good thing, it would be too restricted!

[johnnyjibbs]

I think these stories are inspiring and I see little harm in them. Everything starts with a dream.

I'm new to development but I consider doing it all for the right reasons. My only experience of programming was a PacMan game on the Amiga in BASIC, but I've never had any experience of OO programming or C-based languages before.

I picked up the SDK and thought I'd give it a shot. Although I do have ambitions to make some money (don't we all), I don't go for the 'something for nothing' attitude and am looking for the following rewards out of my iPhone development:

1) that I am learning Objective-C and therefore adding a worthwhile addition to my CV (Resumé)

2) the development is enjoyable and a hobby that keeps my brain fit and tests my logical skills

3) as an iPhone user myself, any app that I develop could be of direct benefit to me, even if no-one else buys it

4) I might make some money.

At the moment, I'm focusing on a productivity app to get my head around table views and the whole data model. It's progressing nicely and will be released when ready (I'm learning a lot) but I doubt it will make too much money.

I have some ideas for innovative other apps, including what I consider to be a very original and fun game concept that I will begin development once I have gotten my first app out of the door. I expect this app, if executed well and priced correctly, to potentially make some money. But it will also serve to improve my graphics ability and get me familiar with OpenGL, of which I currently know very little about.

I see this all as a potential way of moving towards my ultimate goal to create my own business(es), as the App store approach is pretty much risk-free because there are basically no costs involved other than my time, which is good education and enjoyable anyway.

Realism must remain the focus, however. I'm not intending to give up the day job any time soon. ;)

[swarmster]

.
Why? Because of the 30% they take. When a contracted (and in this case, sole) distributor takes a percentage, it's usually greatly / partly in exchange for advertising.


No, if you wanted advertising, you would be giving the distributor a 95+% take, like what happens to the original artist in the Music Store. Apple hosts your apps, gives you an easy way to link to it externally and accept credit cards, and allows everyone in your target market to access it from anywhere in the world, immediately. That's why you're paying 30%.


What happens is not that your applications gets put up on the shelves and then you need to market it, rather your application is put up on the shelves while a plethora of other products, mostly junk, are quickly stacked on top of it making it impossible for customers to find. If iPhone apps actually operated in a free market, the iTunes app store would be pressured by other iPhone application distribution sources to improve their policies. Instead developers are forced to game these policies, and the problem gets worse.

It's true that you can market the app outside of the store -- and trust me, I have. But none of this makes as much impact as apple's policies in the iTunes app store itself. Once you're a developer, you will know what it means to go from page 1 to page 2 on the product lists, or from the top 100 list to nowhere land -- it means no more sales.

Besides, if Apple could come up with a policy that encourages high quality applications to be developed, and lets developers waste less time on marketing (I'm a programmer, not a marketer!) that's beneficial for everybody.

I still don't see how this is much different from a brick-and-mortar store. When you walk in the front door you can barely see a fraction of all the merchandise held there. You have to walk down every single aisle if you want to browse them all.

Apple maintains top 100 lists for interest's sake, but I don't think people are seriously being asked to shop using those methods. The Music Store works in exactly the same way: Apple puts up banners for a few random artists, and occasionally uses a song in a commercial and that's the extent of their advertising. People who go there by and large have an idea of what they want to pick up already, search for the artist, and click buy. Or even better, they read a music blog or something and get linked directly to it.

If someone browses the App Store and stumbles across your app and buys it, that is luck. Marketing by definition tries to take luck out of the equation.

What would you like Apple to do to their policies exactly? Start ejecting "bad" apps from the store? Have a "Top 100 good apps" list? If you think there's been backlash about what apps are being accepted now, I wouldn't want to see what would happen if they actually started doing that.

[firewood]

No doubt that's true, but they're still missing having their app promoted on its own merits, which again I point out is a normal reason for giving up a percentage.

The normal reason for giving up a percentage to an agent is because that agent can produce a net increase in total revenue through that channel, even after the additional costs, by any means (might be by advertising, or might be by knowing which executive to lose a golf game to...). The App store seems to do that. (And I sell other apps for other devices though multiple types of channels, so I have comparison data).

Instead, as pointed out by others, the programmers must game the system to do the marketing they paid for.

Given that, even excluding several thousand "junk" apps of the 10K, there are still several hundred interesting (to some segment of the customer base) apps, more than there a slots for in any top list. Whatever a developer does to get on this list will be called "gaming the system" by developers of equivalent quality apps who don't get on the list. The only "fair" system might be what department stores do, let suppliers bid and pay for additional featured advertising and aisle end-cap positioning (and well above the equality 30% that their competition pays).

Once Apple starts charging $10K for being featured on front pages, the $0.99 chaff from quicky developers taking a gamble will fall away.

.

[kingtj]

I'm disturbed that a company like Pangea hasn't grasped the reality of things; their iPhone apps were only that successful because they first built them on the Mac!

Anything's possible, but I just don't think a game like Enigmo is the type of thing one would be likely to come up with on a touch-screen device with very limited screen "real-estate". Only after making it a success on a full-blown computer system, was it much easier to figure out how to do a successful port to the iPhone. Plus, the Mac version probably generated enough "hype" over the years to help boost sales on the iPhone too. (I know I personally mentioned it to people a few times, saying "Hey, if you're looking at buying iPhone games, Enigmo is really good. I have it on my Mac.)



Well thats not a good thing.

Lets hope this is an isolated occurance.

[kingtj]

The Windows platform has already had this for a while. It's called 'Steam". You can shop for and immediately download all sorts of games through it.

That's the primarily method of sales they used for "Half Life 2".


This is what it will be like in the future for software I think. There will be an App Store on the Mac and Apple TV and we will buy and download all our software through there :) I can't wait till that happens, and I do think that would help push for much more elaborate and well made functional apps.

P.S. I have heard things about Microsoft already working on a software delivery system like that for Windows and the Xbox. Anyone know more about that?

Everything is going to the cloud eventually and we will be even more dependent on technology that could easily crash and have big ramifications on life haha, kinda scary.

[MacFly123]

The Windows platform has already had this for a while. It's called 'Steam". You can shop for and immediately download all sorts of games through it.

That's the primarily method of sales they used for "Half Life 2".

But isn't that 3rd party? I am talking about an article I read pretty recently after the App Store opened that talked about Microsoft building it right into Windows natively as a central digital software store for all software, not just games.

[PowerFullMac]

I think these stories are inspiring and I see little harm in them. Everything starts with a dream.

I'm new to development but I consider doing it all for the right reasons. My only experience of programming was a PacMan game on the Amiga in BASIC, but I've never had any experience of OO programming or C-based languages before.

I picked up the SDK and thought I'd give it a shot. Although I do have ambitions to make some money (don't we all), I don't go for the 'something for nothing' attitude and am looking for the following rewards out of my iPhone development:

1) that I am learning Objective-C and therefore adding a worthwhile addition to my CV (Resumé)

2) the development is enjoyable and a hobby that keeps my brain fit and tests my logical skills

3) as an iPhone user myself, any app that I develop could be of direct benefit to me, even if no-one else buys it

4) I might make some money.

At the moment, I'm focusing on a productivity app to get my head around table views and the whole data model. It's progressing nicely and will be released when ready (I'm learning a lot) but I doubt it will make too much money.

I have some ideas for innovative other apps, including what I consider to be a very original and fun game concept that I will begin development once I have gotten my first app out of the door. I expect this app, if executed well and priced correctly, to potentially make some money. But it will also serve to improve my graphics ability and get me familiar with OpenGL, of which I currently know very little about.

I see this all as a potential way of moving towards my ultimate goal to create my own business(es), as the App store approach is pretty much risk-free because there are basically no costs involved other than my time, which is good education and enjoyable anyway.

Realism must remain the focus, however. I'm not intending to give up the day job any time soon. ;)

I agree with this post except the last part, it's not fully risk free coz there are costs... $100 a year developer registration fees, to be precise.

[Jessica Sampson]

Hopefully most of it will fade away soon and anyway any half decent app, and there are thousands of users out there more than eager to pay for anything just half decent, will rise to the surface and will be successfull.

How many iPhone users are Windows only users? More than you think and even if these guys are developers there's no chance of them writing any app with the SDK as it's MAC only. No developer like's to be out of his comfort zone and the last thing a Windows developer wants is to be plunged into the alien world of writing apps on a platform he doesn't know.

You MAc developers are in a good position. Get coding.