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MacRumors
Feb 24, 2004, 10:19 AM
CNet reports (http://news.com.com/2110-1027_3-5163722.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news) that Napster has passed the 5 million song sales mark since its relaunch in late October.

Napster is considered the #2 music service (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/7988684.htm) according to Mercury News and was previously noted to have only 1/4 of the sales as iTunes.

While comparisons are likely to be made between Napster's numbers and iTunes' numbers, it may be difficult to compare due to differences in launch times and platforms at time of launch.

Apple announced sales of 13 million songs at the launch of the Windows iTunes Store, and then 25 million iTunes songs as of December, 2003.

nuckinfutz
Feb 24, 2004, 10:21 AM
Geez they suck :p

jholzner
Feb 24, 2004, 10:21 AM
Apple also announced sales of 30 million songs on Januarys 6th. It's in a press release. I posted it as a comment to the Macbytes post of this news yesterday.

MattG
Feb 24, 2004, 10:21 AM
OOOH 5 million songs
Puuhhleeze :cool:

AirUncleP
Feb 24, 2004, 10:22 AM
Does the general public even know Napster is an option? For that matter, do they know iTunes.com is an option?

wdlove
Feb 24, 2004, 10:32 AM
Apple just pulverizes the competition in ease of use and quality. Now onward to 50 million.

virividox
Feb 24, 2004, 10:33 AM
5 million, wel lets hope they dont ever catch up :D

varmit
Feb 24, 2004, 10:36 AM
is universities buying in for their students to listen too, not download the music. And people who were stupid enought to get the Napster MP3 player.

I have personally used Napster here at PSU, and I find the service alright when it comes to streaming, but getting around the site just sucks ass. You hit the back button and it goes all the way back to the home page, when there is already a home page button right next to it. When I hit the back button, I expect to go back to the page that I was at before the one that I'm at presently. Nope, all the way back to the beginning. Other odd things is when it adds 30 second songs, aka buy only songs, to my play list, it adds it right in the god damn middle of my playlist. When I try to delete it, it always prompts me to stop the song first before deleting, just delete it man, do I have to click 500 things just to get it to do something simple as take it out of my playlist. OH, and once you make a playlist, you can't delete it, yeah right, horrible I say, horrible.

impierced
Feb 24, 2004, 10:38 AM
5 million songs sold at a loss of 15 million dollars. Now that is impressive.

Grimace
Feb 24, 2004, 10:38 AM
[yawn]

oh well. Eventually, Napster may catch up. Still, I walk around town and see nothing but white headphones....

montecristo
Feb 24, 2004, 10:40 AM
I wonder how many of those songs came from that university (Rochester?) that had that deal where students could get free songs?

If iTMS goes from 25 mil in December to 30 mi on January 6, that is at least 1 million songs a week (a conservative estimate, assuming 25 mil December 1).

So, its 8 weeks later, and iTMS should be at least 40 million! (if the Pepsi thing is even remotely successful, we could be way more than that!).

So 40 million at a clip of 1 mil per week for iTMS.

And Napster, launch in October, thats 1,2,3,4 -- 5 months. 5 million in 5 months. Congratulations. At this rate they won't reach 40 million until 2007. :eek: By that time iTMS will be at 200 million:D (assuming the rate stays the same of course. Which is like saying an iPod dropped from the empire state building will travel at the same speed all the way down. Nope, no way, it will gather steam and just crush the little napster dude into the sidewalk).

Belly-laughs
Feb 24, 2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by carletonmusic
[yawn]

oh well. Eventually, Napster may catch up. Still, I walk around town and see nothing but white headphones....

... you can buy those separate you know...

swissmann
Feb 24, 2004, 10:54 AM
I hope apple pays attention to it's own personal history lesson. The Mac was at the top and look at market share now. Fast forward about 20 years the iPod and the iTunes music store are at the top. Hopefully Apple will be smart enough this time to stay there for the next 20 years. DOS sucked and Windows still sucks yet a lot of people used/use them.

tacojohn
Feb 24, 2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by impierced
5 million songs sold at a loss of 15 million dollars. Now that is impressive.

Same here- I go to school at MSU and see about 10 people (at least) a day with iPods.

In my 3D class one kid was like "iPods suck! My roommate just got one this week and the battery was already dead by the weekend." Mean while- another PC user (the TA) said "I'm just glad they ported iTunes to the PC- I don't care what anyone says its the best jukebox software ever." That shut him up.

How stupid can you get? YES! You have to charge the battery. I don't care what anyone says- the iPod is the BEST digital music player- nothing beats it.

On a side note- I was asking about 3D options on the Mac and people were mentioning Maya and stuff- and then he just comes in a says- "I personally hate macs". I just replyed "Well, I love them and personally hate windows". I didn't reallly feel like getting into a debate.

Now I just wish apple would rid itself of the G4 and get the G5 into its consumer machines!!!!! So the speed/value argument goes away!

neilw
Feb 24, 2004, 11:06 AM
I just bought my first batch of songs on iTMS the other day. It was unbelievably slick and effortless, and the tunes are now happily playing on my iPod.

If iTMS actually had half the songs I wanted, I'd be in serious financial danger, but alas there are still loads of gaps in their selection (and I seem to have special skill at finding them). Not obscure stuff either, mainstream stuff that is absent for no reason I can fathom.

It's hard to beat the whole iPod/iTunes/iTMS triumvirate for seamless ease of use. And in the meantime, while Napster and others try to get traction in the market, Apple is locking people into their platform (well, sort of, but you know what I mean.)

mrsebastian
Feb 24, 2004, 11:07 AM
i don't see how napster plans rivaling, much less beating itms? what do they offer the consumer that's so much better in value or ease of use? nothing, they purchased a name that everyone knows, so after the hype that napster is back (which it really isn't), they are really just another download service that's not as good as apple.

bub-bye napster, thanks for playing.

swissmann
Feb 24, 2004, 11:11 AM
In my 3D class one kid was like "iPods suck! My roommate just got one this week and the battery was already dead by the weekend." Mean while- another PC user (the TA) said "I'm just glad they ported iTunes to the PC- I don't care what anyone says its the best jukebox software ever." That shut him up.

How stupid can you get?

I just posted but had to reply to this. OK so there are a lot of stupid people out there. I like to think of Mac users as the ones who actually pull their heads out and figure out what is the best option and then of course use a Mac (although there are some stupid Mac users too). I got in a big debate over a friend group email about the latest G5 vs. AMD 64 chip. In the end my friend said that he could custom build a machine that would be cheaper and faster than a G5. At the end of this debate my other friend piped up and said yeah like the machine you built for me that I threw away because it never worked and replaced it with an HP? On a positive note my Sister's Boyfriend hated Macs with a passion (for no real reason) and about 30 seconds on my G5 later he now is a Mac advocate and getting a 15 GB iPod on Saturday. From his opinion iTunes and the iPod rule so some stupid PC users can increase in intelligence I guess but only because Apple's products are good enough to educate.

jholzner
Feb 24, 2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Belly-laughs
... you can buy those separate you know...

Of course you can but no one who owns an iPod is going to shop at a store that only supports WMA.

skunk
Feb 24, 2004, 11:24 AM
[i]Which is like saying an iPod dropped from the empire state building will travel at the same speed all the way down. Nope, no way, it will gather steam and just crush the little napster dude into the sidewalk).
Ummm, I don't think so: once it reaches terminal velocity, it won't go any faster. Unless the Empire State Building is in a vacuum...

dongmin
Feb 24, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by skunk
Ummm, I don't think so: once it reaches terminal velocity, it won't go any faster. Unless the Empire State Building is in a vacuum... Apple has SO many advantages over Napster. Napster really has no future. How did they think they would ever compete?

Apple advantages:
1. Existing infrastructure, i.e. they didn't have to plunk down bucketloads of money to get the service started
2. iTunes: quickly becoming the favorite of Windows users as a jukebox software
3. iPod and the iPod mini
4. "Mindshare"
5. Deals with HP and Pepsi (and maybe MacDonalds)

Apple's only real competition is Microsoft, if and when they enter the market. Hopefully, by then, Apple will have become the Amazon of online music.

SiliconAddict
Feb 24, 2004, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by tacojohn

Now I just wish apple would rid itself of the G4 and get the G5 into its consumer machines!!!!! So the speed/value argument goes away!

Amen

Savage Henry
Feb 24, 2004, 11:42 AM
When I was a lad, I used to be able to sport a dashing pair of Speedos, and Napster used to be cool.

But the more Old Mother Wisdom nurses the pair of us to our inevitable grave it doesn't take me too long to realise that:

a) I now have to wear a comfortable pair of knee length rope tie swim shorts above some leather strap sandals

b) Napster is now very very tired.

I for one would have thought that, with the sophistacated re-launch, and the rather high brow yet street cred logo of a little kitten with ear muffs, they would give Apple a run for its money.

But perhaps they will. Suppose they, unlike those dullards at Apple, have managed to sort it out with the RIAA to make a bottom line 10c profit on every 99c song, then they would only have to sell 150 million songs to recoup that $15m loss they reported. And that would only take another 10 years!!:D

Mav451
Feb 24, 2004, 11:47 AM
swissman: Your friend is right. A "faster" AMD64 based computer can be built for much cheaper. But if you are a Mac user, than that probably doesn't mean much to you b/c of your dependence on OSX. Even if PCs were one dollar, you would still stick to the Mac. The thing with self built machines is that the build quality is highly in question (as your "other friend" demonstrated) b/c every user will vary in their technical ability, experience and stress testing.

I have only built one so far, and it is one for my brother. It has been working since this August. I actually stress test it with loop of Prime/3dmark, Mem test the memory, and ran Black Viper's registry tweak on his computer. The machine has withstood his use of Kazaa/IE (vs. using Firefox), which i daresay is a feat on its own. Of course i had to sneak on to it to run SpyBot:S&D now and then lol.

*But how many people know how to do this? Not many. My brother is pretty lucky to have a good brother like me to build him one :)

The computer I built for him is based on the 2500+ chip (multiplier unlocked, became a 3200+ with 2 simple changes in BIOS).

By the way, I was one of the first (and maybe only) in my dorm hall to install and use iTunes. I told everyone to switch, but alas, no one listens to me. iTunes is a bit bloated on the PC side (forced QT install), but overall is awesome.

Le Big Mac
Feb 24, 2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Belly-laughs
... you can buy those separate you know...

And doesn't the fact that people might do so tell you something more?

wPod
Feb 24, 2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by montecristo
(assuming the rate stays the same of course. Which is like saying an iPod dropped from the empire state building will travel at the same speed all the way down. Nope, no way, it will gather steam and just crush the little napster dude into the sidewalk).

um, last time i checked, on earth (that is where the empire state building is located) theres a cool thing called an atomosphere which, when soemthing is dropped through it, produces drag. this drag induces a thing called 'terminal velocity' (i think they made a movie called that sometime) so at some point the rate is constant. sorry :-)

as for the little napster guy, lets not completly smush him, some competition is nice, we wouldnt want apple to turn into the M$ of music would we? pretty soon our beloved iPods would have a grey screen of death (or blue screen if they ever come out in color) and we dont want that now do we?

so, its good to see napster put in a valliant effort, but even better to see apple doing so well!!!!

pbreit
Feb 24, 2004, 12:21 PM
You missed the best part from the press release: "the first PC-only digital music service to sell over five million downloads."

How hilarious is that?? The "first PC-only"?? Hah, hah, hah!!

Fuchal
Feb 24, 2004, 12:24 PM
By the way, I was one of the first (and maybe only) in my dorm hall to install and use iTunes. I told everyone to switch, but alas, no one listens to me. iTunes is a bit bloated on the PC side (forced QT install), but overall is awesome. [/B]

iTunes depends on QuickTime for its functionality which is why it requires QT to be installed.

Rick Friele
Feb 24, 2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
You missed the best part from the press release: "the first PC-only digital music service to sell over five million downloads."

How hilarious is that?? The "first PC-only"?? Hah, hah, hah!!

They had to be the first at something.

iTunes > all

winmacguy
Feb 24, 2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
You missed the best part from the press release: "the first PC-only digital music service to sell over five million downloads."

How hilarious is that?? The "first PC-only"?? Hah, hah, hah!!

Well hey I guess all that HUGE percentage of Mac users in the US have such a MASSIVE impact on downloading songs against the "other" 95% of PC users who use iTMS. ;)

winmacguy
Feb 24, 2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Rick Friele
They had to be the first at something.

iTunes > all

Of course that is probably more of a reference to the .wma format verses .aac

corey
Feb 24, 2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by wPod
um, last time i checked, on earth (that is where the empire state building is located) theres a cool thing called an atomosphere which, when soemthing is dropped through it, produces drag. this drag induces a thing called 'terminal velocity' (i think they made a movie called that sometime) so at some point the rate is constant. sorry :-) montecristo specifically said "all the way down". so, even factoring in terminal velocity, he is still correct. unless of course you are saying it will instantaneously reach terminal velocity.

whooleytoo
Feb 24, 2004, 01:07 PM
In another news story (link forgotton), I saw a mention of "a record 2 million songs legally downloaded last week". They mentioned the majority were from iTunes and Napster, but given Napster has sold 5 million in total, it gives us a fair indication of the current rate of iTunes sales..

Roller
Feb 24, 2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by neilw
I just bought my first batch of songs on iTMS the other day. It was unbelievably slick and effortless, and the tunes are now happily playing on my iPod.

If iTMS actually had half the songs I wanted, I'd be in serious financial danger, but alas there are still loads of gaps in their selection (and I seem to have special skill at finding them). Not obscure stuff either, mainstream stuff that is absent for no reason I can fathom.

There are quite a few songs that I'd happily buy, if only they were available. It would be helpful if there were some way of triggering an email notification when songs matching a specified set of criteria are added to the store. I have at least 10 or 15 songs that I'm waiting for, and it's a pain to have to look for them using the search function or the "added" lists.

winmacguy
Feb 24, 2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by whooleytoo
In another news story (link forgotton), I saw a mention of "a record 2 million songs legally downloaded last week". They mentioned the majority were from iTunes and Napster, but given Napster has sold 5 million in total, it gives us a fair indication of the current rate of iTunes sales..

I think the article was to do with the extent of illegal file sharing that still exists which was on www.australianit.com.au
It is still great news about iTMS and Apple :)

stoid
Feb 24, 2004, 02:12 PM
Well, Napster was the first to take a successful product in the music download world, bastardize everything the name stood for, and hope that the faithful 'moral-less thieves' would see the light, have a change of heart and start paying for music again.

Originally posted by Rick Friele
They had to be the first at something.

iTunes > all

spinner
Feb 24, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
You missed the best part from the press release: "the first PC-only digital music service to sell over five million downloads."

How hilarious is that?? The "first PC-only"?? Hah, hah, hah!!

That also means that buymusic.com hasn't even reached 5 mil yet and they opened for business before Napster didn't they?

Snowy_River
Feb 24, 2004, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by AirUncleP
Does the general public even know Napster is an option? For that matter, do they know iTunes.com is an option?

Well, given the fact that I see an iPod/iTunes commercial about once a week, and, if it weren't for what I read here, I might not even know about the existence of Napster 2.0, I'd say that the Public does know about iTunes, but probably doesn't know much about Napster.

Does anyone know what's been happening with buymusic.com?

XForge
Feb 24, 2004, 02:21 PM
I notice there's no mention of the mass exodus at Napster of almost all its senior execs, or Roxio laying off a bunch of people in the Napster division... HP backed out of a deal with Napster before they went with iTunes and a rebranded iPod...

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/7987726.htm

Snowy_River
Feb 24, 2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Mav451
... iTunes is a bit bloated on the PC side (forced QT install), but overall is awesome.

Well, if the required install of QT makes it bloated, then it's bloated on both platforms. If, for some reason, you don't have QT installed on your Mac (or don't have the latest version) then iTunes won't work, either.

mzarra
Feb 24, 2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Roller
There are quite a few songs that I'd happily buy, if only they were available. It would be helpful if there were some way of triggering an email notification when songs matching a specified set of criteria are added to the store. I have at least 10 or 15 songs that I'm waiting for, and it's a pain to have to look for them using the search function or the "added" lists.

Try using the RSS new feed. It will do pretty much what you are looking for.

WICKEDfour
Feb 24, 2004, 02:39 PM
Hi, I usually lurk :\. But anyway, the fact that iTunes began life as the music jukebox app tells worlds about Apple's direction. The iTunes Music Store was a feature that was added to iTunes; Napster launched with the sole purpose of selling music, and I guess they threw an app in there too (I know nothing of Napster or whatever app you use with it because I simply don't need to.) Even before the iTunes Music Store, Apple was commended for iTunes because it was a well-designed app. That's the root of Apple's success with iTunes, the iPod, and the iTunes Music Store, in my opinion.

Also, the iTunes broke the 5 million sales mark while it was still Mac-only (sorry I don't know the exact number). Around the time, critics were purely marvelling at how many songs were sold to ~3% of the computing market/world. As we can see, Apple hasn't slowed down at all. In my opinion, Apple has finally gotten to the point where "me too" music stores such as BuyMusic.com and possibly Napster (its previous background and stories of its rebirth emerged before iTunes, technically) just can't cut it. By now, whether on Windows or on the Mac, the iPod family is the portable music player, iTunes is the jukebox app, and the iTunes Music Store is the legal music download service. Great job Apple, it's good to see you guys get a lucky break at long last.

Wendy_Rebecca
Feb 24, 2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
Apple just pulverizes the competition in ease of use and quality. Now onward to 50 million.

LOL...50 million? Steve Jobs promised 100 million in the first year. Is he even close to that number? The end of year one looms!

Of course, Scot Blum was gonna stomp all over iTunes, right? And Paul "Windows Fanboy" Thurrott said iTunes "is now officially toast" when BuyMusic.com appeared, so everyone is probably wrong here.

montecristo
Feb 24, 2004, 02:48 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by carletonmusic
[yawn]

oh well. Eventually, Napster may catch up. Still, I walk around town and see nothing but white headphones....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by Belly-laughs
... you can buy those separate you know...

...and as Jobs said when asked whether he worried about knock-off white headphones. "So what do you do when the girl asks 'Oh, let me see your iPod!'?"....

nagromme
Feb 24, 2004, 02:50 PM
Re: Mac was once on top and then dropped, so iTunes might -- No, Mac was NEVER the market leader, just the best :)

Re: making the 100 million goal -- Pepsi is the key I think.

Re: people knowing about iTunes -- I was at a friends' house and saw one of my Windows friends giving another friend an iTunes gift certificate as a gift. Another asked me if I knew about the Pepsi thing, and plans to revive an old PC purely to get iTunes in the living room connected to their stereo. These are among the last people I'd ever to have expected to be aware of such things. I think people ARE aware of iTunes. But not Napster :)

montecristo
Feb 24, 2004, 03:02 PM
[i]quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wPod
um, last time i checked, on earth (that is where the empire state building is located) theres a cool thing called an atomosphere which, when soemthing is dropped through it, produces drag. this drag induces a thing called 'terminal velocity' (i think they made a movie called that sometime) so at some point the rate is constant. sorry :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

montecristo specifically said "all the way down". so, even factoring in terminal velocity, he is still correct. unless of course you are saying it will instantaneously reach terminal velocity.

Thanks for backing me up, corey. And I definitely didn't mean it would instantaneously reach terminal velocity. And with the slick design of the iPod, it's not clear it would reach terminal velocity from that height. Either way...napster flattened.

And regarding the 100 million song target in the 1st year -- we have what about 6 or 7 weeks left? Apple would need 7 or 8 million songs a week! I don't think it will happen.

BTW, does anyone know where Jobs set this target?

bokdol
Feb 24, 2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by pbreit
You missed the best part from the press release: "the first PC-only digital music service to sell over five million downloads."

How hilarious is that?? The "first PC-only"?? Hah, hah, hah!!


haha that is funny but wait arnt mac's pcs... should it not say the first windows-only digital service.... ;) :rolleyes:

ITR 81
Feb 24, 2004, 03:47 PM
At the old rate we should already be pass the 40 million mark.

Around 43-45 million or so...but this does not include all the free songs from Pepsi.

So we should hit atleast 60+- million on iTMS's on it's own merit without the Pepsi deal.

wPod
Feb 24, 2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by corey
montecristo specifically said "all the way down". so, even factoring in terminal velocity, he is still correct. unless of course you are saying it will instantaneously reach terminal velocity.

yeah yeah yeah, specifics. . . dont make me calculate the terminal velocity of an iPod and how far from the top of the empire state building this speed would be reached.

speaking of pepsi. . .
this sunday will mark one month of, or half way through, the pepsi iTunes give away. . . i wonder if apple will put out any numbers to show how many songs have been sold through the give away. also only one more month until april

doogle
Feb 24, 2004, 05:05 PM
Apple has to sell more than 100 million songs. On the scale of sellingmusic worldwide 30 million barely registers - online music selling is still chicken feed and has not entered the mainstream yet.

Apple MUST keep the innovation in this market rolling - it must run the agenda. Keep developing marketing strategies and NEW devices to attract and more people and keep the competition off their balance........this actually means FUD in some peoples language but I think Apple can do it in their own way by just making the best music service and music orientated products.

Its all about music right now. I have suggested it in the past (and been laughed at - go ahead please - I like entertaining) it may not be an impossibility to see iTunes (iTMS) and iPod as a separate Apple company - break the Apple brand from the devices and software and place it under iTunes/iPod and you have a new business (just look at the lack of Apple logo in the Pepsi ad and Apple-less HPod)

geerlingguy
Feb 24, 2004, 05:46 PM
I can't always find the song I want on iTMS... I wonder how bad it'd be trying to find it on Napster!!! (I like CCM, classical, etc.)

One of my friends (well, not a friend anymore ;) ) said he used Napster because it came with his computer :rolleyes: ... To which I, and about three of my true friends said we use iTunes (two of us use Macs, two PeeCees), and it is better.

If you want a REALLY bad experience, use Raphsody.

geerlingguy
Feb 24, 2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by doogle
orientated products...

Cool new word :D

geerlingguy
Feb 24, 2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by wPod
yeah yeah yeah, specifics. . . dont make me calculate the terminal velocity of an iPod and how far from the top of the empire state building this speed would be reached.

speaking of pepsi. . .
this sunday will mark one month of, or half way through, the pepsi iTunes give away. . . i wonder if apple will put out any numbers to show how many songs have been sold through the give away. also only one more month until april

If you want to get even more complicated... calculate the iPod when it is vertical, horizontal, and all ways in between... It obviously won't be falling in the same position all the way down.

Then, you can calculate the air resistance and force caused by wind.

Finally, you can take temperature into account, and the atmospheric conditions (to be as precise as possible).

Or not.

ccuilla
Feb 24, 2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Wendy_Rebecca
LOL...50 million? Steve Jobs promised 100 million in the first year. Is he even close to that number? The end of year one looms!

Well, careful here. I think the Apple goal has been revised a couple of times and the 100 million number was thrown out as a "let's go for it" thing.

I think originally, they were expecting something like 1 million in the first year...but they hit the number so fast, they revised to 10 million for the some period, then they hit THAT faster than they expected, then I think he said something like "Well, let's go for 100 million in the first year!" So not exactly a promise...

billyboy
Feb 24, 2004, 07:58 PM
No doubt if they only sell 80 million that will be publicised by detractors as a failure.

stoid
Feb 24, 2004, 08:14 PM
As for Apple's goals, they originally hoped to sell 1 million in the first month. That happened in 7 days, so Steve set a deadline to sell 10 million songs. That got blown away too.

I think that the final 100 million song goal was set for one reason: to bait the crowd for the Pepsi give-away.

Undoubtedly, there will be the dumb-asses that take the 100 million completely out of context, and make Apple having sold 10 fold the number of songs of all the competition combined out to be a failure simply because they did not reach a ludicrous goal.

You want failure, I'd call Napster/buymusic.com/Coke (is the Coke music store still up and does anyone care?) utter and resounding failure.


The reason that MS was able to take over a Apple dominant market 20 years ago was because the market grew faster than Apple. If Apple wants to keep this market, all they need to do is continue to grow with the market until it fully expands over the next few years. If that means hearing more iTMS/iPod news for awhile, I'll take it to see Apple take a leader position in the field that it's quality products deserve. I just hope that Apple doesn't 'go Microsoft' once they've secured the field and stop giving a damn about the customer and innovation.

doogle
Feb 24, 2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by geerlingguy
Cool new word :D

new word? Or have I missed something?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=orientated

Makosuke
Feb 24, 2004, 08:42 PM
I like the implication that BuyMusic hasn't even managed to sell 5 million songs yet. Considering that good ol' Mr. Blumm apparently thought he'd make that number in less than a week, you've almost gotta feel sorry for that level of abysmal failure. Almost. Serves the Mac-hating punks right.

Napster is obviously doing badly, but it's hardly a business plan to loose $15 million on gross sales of $5 million--sounds like the late 90s to me. Thanks to the iPod, Apple can make it work.

By the way, this being new music Tuesday, I noticed that the iTMS had its biggest run of new stuff ever--about 1000 albums, for 10-15K new songs. Not bad for a week, although I wish they'd either fill in the popular stuff or start getting some good, obscure imports.

dontmatter
Feb 24, 2004, 08:45 PM
So when do we hear the next set of numbers from apple? I wanna know how much pepsi has effected this, as we could easily have 5 million pepsi songs redeemed a week, for all we know. Or, those yellow caps could be going to the trash.

Not to mention, it would be REALLY great if we heard the total and how much was from pepsi...because maybe the pepsi millions matter now, but what really matters is if the store is still growing, and growing faster b/c of the pepsi publicity...


also, anyone know how much is bought in CD format?

Sparky's
Feb 24, 2004, 08:51 PM
Simple Question:
how many songs does iTunes list?
how many songs does Napster list?

how much does iTunes charge per?
how much does Napster charge per?

stoid
Feb 24, 2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Sparky's
Simple Question:
how many songs does iTunes list?
how many songs does Napster list?

how much does iTunes charge per?
how much does Napster charge per?

Steve announced at MWSF that Apple had broken 500,000. I would guess they are about 550,000 then.

Napster's big point was that they started with 500,000 but since many of their songs were for streaming only and not for download, I don't know how YOU want to count that.


iTunes charges (I think without exception) 99 cents for every song. Even the 'Silent' tracks.

I don't know if Napster has exceptions to the 99 cent rule (minus the tracks that you can't even buy if you want to), but that was one reason buymusic.com did even worse, they had many, many, many exceptions to the 99 cent rule.

splashman
Feb 25, 2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by doogle
Orientate is a new word? Or have I missed something?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=orientated

Oh my. Speaking for the all the language purists out there, this is a revolting development.

To those who don't know any better, "orientate" was not a word twenty years ago (and still isn't, despite what Webster says). Because so many underachieving products of our glorious school system had spent all their time in diversity training and global warming indoctrination, they didn't have time to learn how to properly utilize the word "orient" in a sentence. Instead, it was easier to bastardize "orientation" into "orientate". The teachers couldn't object, for fear they would be mobbed by subpeona-wielding parents screaming about repressive educational agendas; instead, the teachers gave the students a check-plus (letter grades are fascist) for creative writing. Fast-forward a few years, and the population notices "orientate" in Teen magazine, MTV and Dilbert. BAM! It magically enters the lexicon, and those of us over the age of 17 are forced to endure another inane assault on the language, common sense, and . . .

Okay, I'm an obsessive nut case. ;)

doogle
Feb 25, 2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by splashman


Okay, I'm an obsessive nut case. ;)

You said it! :)
If its in A dictionary then its good enougn for me. Lets avoid any silly arguments over these things and stay on topic.

doogle
Feb 25, 2004, 12:35 AM
"enougn" is a word! :D

crazylb1
Feb 25, 2004, 01:00 AM
Not specifically Napster related but since I cant post topics here ya'll go. I recently won not one but two songs off a Mountain Dew bottle. Here's some proof:

theRebel
Feb 25, 2004, 05:12 AM
Ellen Degeneres just recently presented William Hung with an iPod when he performed on her show.

Now Apple marketing needs to solicit William Hung to be a spokesman for them. An iPod/iTunes Music Store commercial starring him would be a guaranteed HUGE hit.

Along with that they could have William Hung record some exclusive tracks for sale via the iTunes Music Store and they could easily sell another 100,000 songs or more.

All Apple has to do is take a trip up the road to Berkeley before someone else beats them to it.

rdowns
Feb 25, 2004, 06:14 AM
Originally posted by theRebel
Ellen Degeneres just recently presented William Hung with an iPod when he performed on her show.

Now Apple marketing needs to solicit William Hung to be a spokesman for them. An iPod/iTunes Music Store commercial starring him would be a guaranteed HUGE hit.

Along with that they could have William Hung record some exclusive tracks for sale via the iTunes Music Store and they could easily sell another 100,000 songs or more.

All Apple has to do is take a trip up the road to Berkeley before someone else beats them to it.

I love this dude. Although he is as funny as hell and can't sing for ******, I admire his spirit. His rendition of She Bang is often mimiced in my office by about 6 people. Makes a great break up to boring meetings.

I think your idea is great. Add Simon to the ad and you'd really move the iPod/iTMS more into the mainstream.

theRebel
Feb 25, 2004, 10:25 AM
I am not sure what Simon would add to it.

Also, although William is obviously not the most talented singer in the world, neither are most of the famous singers that you hear on the radio or see on MTV. William's voice is actual not as bad as people have made it out to be. I could make a VERY LONG list of popular singers who can not sing as well as William can. American Idol had him singing without any music; many famous singers refuse to sing live without music because it would expose how bad they actually are. Also, practically every singer that I know of uses reverb when performing but there was no reverb for William on American Idol.

For example, listen to William singing at Berkeley with a some background music : http://members.cox.net/newhomes/Shebangslive.mp3

Then go to the iTunes Music Store and listen to some tracks from various artists' LIVE albums.

William Hung is not the best, but he is not the worst.

Snowy_River
Feb 25, 2004, 11:58 AM
[Off Topic]
Originally posted by doogle
new word? Or have I missed something?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=orientated

Just for the record, it does indicate that this word is an improper usage.

Originally posted by splashman
Oh my. Speaking for the all the language purists out there, this is a revolting development.

. . .

Okay, I'm an obsessive nut case. ;)

Hey, friend, as much as you and I might not like it, languages change. I believe that the only well known language that hasn't changed in the past couple of hundred years is Latin, and that's because it hasn't been in common use. But any language, including English, that is in common use changes. New words come into use, and some die out. Grammatical rules change.

So, while I'm not fond of the word 'orientate' either, the fact that our language is a living growing language means that such things must be lived with.
[/Off Topic]

Back on topic, I look forward to the day that I'll be able to find any song I want on iTunes. Though, I think I still might choose to buy CDs, at least some of the time...

doogle
Feb 25, 2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River
[Off Topic]


Just for the record, it does indicate that this word is an improper usage.



Hey, friend, as much as you and I might not like it, languages change. I believe that the only well known language that hasn't changed in the past couple of hundred years is Latin, and that's because it hasn't been in common use. But any language, including English, that is in common use changes. New words come into use, and some die out. Grammatical rules change.

So, while I'm not fond of the word 'orientate' either, the fact that our language is a living growing language means that such things must be lived with.
[/Off Topic]

Back on topic, I look forward to the day that I'll be able to find any song I want on iTunes. Though, I think I still might choose to buy CDs, at least some of the time...

Bloody Geeks can't help themselves :) - leave those keyboards alone!

MorganX
Feb 26, 2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Makosuke

Napster is obviously doing badly, but it's hardly a business plan to loose $15 million on gross sales of $5 million--sounds like the late 90s to me. Thanks to the iPod, Apple can make it work.


I can't figure out Napster. They do have good distribution, the Napster cards are all over the Midwest, grocery stores, book stores, etc.

But they have to know without hardware tied to the service, it will be a losing proposition. Most people aware of Napster still get their music free.

I can only guess Napster is going to hang in long enough to see if they can move their new player which I really like. But, even though I need a new player soon (iPod battery, just not going to buy a new battery less than a year in), I don't know if I'll buy another high capacity player with multimedia devices coming.

dontmatter
Feb 27, 2004, 09:04 AM
While it might feel nice to know that napster has yet to make a signifigant dent in apple's monopoly of online music selling, we need to remember that iTMS has yet to make any sort of a dent into album sales. Valentines day week, 17 million albums were sold. No matter how you cut it, 30 million SONGS, TOTAL, is a drop of water in the ocean for the recording industry.

Someday, though.....

(also, this makes the directly comparable statistic of that record breaking week of 2 million songs sold online pretty bad...it's like, what, 15-20 times as many sales in a single day of albums?)

Source is the NY Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/23/business/media/23music.html

whooleytoo
Feb 27, 2004, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by dontmatter
While it might feel nice to know that napster has yet to make a signifigant dent in apple's monopoly of online music selling, we need to remember that iTMS has yet to make any sort of a dent into album sales. Valentines day week, 17 million albums were sold. No matter how you cut it, 30 million SONGS, TOTAL, is a drop of water in the ocean for the recording industry.
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I recall some music industry exec saying online selling needs to be selling in the region of 20 to 50 million songs a month before it starts becoming significent. If we extrapolate 2 million a week to 8.5 to 9 a month, it's starting to get there. That's not too bad for a fledgling industry! (Subscription-free online music sales are still less than a year old)

OTOH, 30 million sales from a catalogue of 500,000 means an average revenue of just $60 per song! Admittedly, some songs probably made a hell of a lot more than that, but that would also mean many made less than that too.

Sedulous
Feb 29, 2004, 04:01 PM
Yes, online sales are still only a fraction of the total sales. Then again, there are not as many songs for sale online.

iChan
Mar 3, 2004, 09:08 AM
i don't believe a word of it.

G4scott
Mar 23, 2004, 11:36 AM
Ellen Degeneres just recently presented William Hung with an iPod when he performed on her show.

Now Apple marketing needs to solicit William Hung to be a spokesman for them. An iPod/iTunes Music Store commercial starring him would be a guaranteed HUGE hit.

Along with that they could have William Hung record some exclusive tracks for sale via the iTunes Music Store and they could easily sell another 100,000 songs or more.

All Apple has to do is take a trip up the road to Berkeley before someone else beats them to it.

It is so.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=5892661

GFLPraxis
Mar 23, 2004, 01:46 PM
On a positive note my Sister's Boyfriend hated Macs with a passion (for no real reason) and about 30 seconds on my G5 later he now is a Mac advocate and getting a 15 GB iPod on Saturday.

Thats what happened to me. I had been using old OS 8 and 7 computers at school and was given the idea that they were relatively new Macs. I saw an IT technition friend of mine on a laptop with a shiny Apple logo, said, "What are you doing? Macs suck!", then he handed me the laptop, running OS X 10.1. Never put down Macs again...

Now I'm one of the only two Mac users/advocates at my school...