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MacRumors
Feb 24, 2004, 09:51 PM
The latest print version of Business 2.0 offers an article about Sony's CEO Nobuyuki Idei.

While it has appeared that Sony is positioning itself as a direct competitor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031105012550.shtml) with Apple, it appears the two companies are working together. According to Idei:

There are a lot of joint projects going on between Sony and Apple. I've seen Steve Jobs three times in the past year, and we talk a lot about how we can define common technologies for, say music downloads. We are working with Apple on improving connectivity with camcorders. We make great use of QuickTime in our Sony Ericsson telephones and in our Cliť PDA's.

Idei goes on to say that they would like to work more closely with Apple.

shadowfax
Feb 24, 2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
Idei goes on to say that they would like to work more closely with Apple. who in his right mind wouldn't? ;)

narco
Feb 24, 2004, 09:53 PM
Nice. I would love to see them work more closely together. Sony has a lot of beautiful products-- it'd be nice to see what they can come up with collectively.

Grimace
Feb 24, 2004, 09:55 PM
Sony should ditch its Vaio line and join up with Apple.

lindmar
Feb 24, 2004, 09:58 PM
I SAY it again and again..
Apple is taking over...
They are going hard core these days!

Counterfit
Feb 24, 2004, 09:59 PM
This isn't first time they've worked together on something. Sony joined up with Apple and helped fine tune FireWire not too long before it was accepted as a standard.

Steven1621
Feb 24, 2004, 10:00 PM
two of the most creative companies out there working together is a very good thing, for both the mac and pc worlds.

plasticparadox
Feb 24, 2004, 10:00 PM
It would be great if they worked more closely together. Sony is a fantastic company and a brilliant innovator, much like Apple.

If I had to use a PC, I would buy a Vaio.

blueBomber
Feb 24, 2004, 10:05 PM
It's no small secret that Steve Jobs has always had a great deal of respect for Sony. I think it's going to be great if any products or services come from a combined effort of the two companies.

SpY2K
Feb 24, 2004, 10:07 PM
bring on the Apple edition Sony Ericsson iPhone :cool: ... you know the new T630 is very Apple styled as is... think of the possibilities ;)

mvc
Feb 24, 2004, 10:09 PM
Yep, the two companies have a similar strategy - make stylish products for design sensitive people and charge a premium for them.

But Sony hasn't been making as much money lately, wonder if they are going off the boil.

MrMacMan
Feb 24, 2004, 10:09 PM
Sony is a good company.

Too bad we don't have a weblink on this puppy.

Maybe the phone is gonna use MPEG4 video support?

Hmmmm... don't know, maybe.

G4scott
Feb 24, 2004, 10:13 PM
Well this is good news. Even if we don't see Sony-Apple branded products, Sony's influence in the tech world would help us behind the scenes... Sony stereos that hook up to your network and communicate via rendezvous... Stuff like that...

Lets hope this partnership stays fruitful, and doesn't turn sour...

fatbarstard
Feb 24, 2004, 10:26 PM
This article mirrors a very similar one in Fortune in the Feb 23 issue - shock horror aren't both mags owned by the same company?!?

Anyway, it makes a whole boatload of sense for the two companies to work together - Jap efficiency and US innovation... makes a pretty formidable team

the deal betwen HP and Apple over the iPod probably gives Apple the confidence to talk to other bigger players and helps validate to the bigger players that Apple is worth taking seriously....

Now does this mean a takeover bid is in the air???

jrv3034
Feb 24, 2004, 10:26 PM
Sony should make PowerPCs that run OS X. That could put some serious heat on MS, and produce some reaally innovative products. Look what Sony did to the Palm Pilot. The Clie is a remarkable PDA.

Rocketman
Feb 24, 2004, 10:31 PM
Sony makes money on unit sales so they should not be faulted for selling PC crap to PC crap buyers. The fact they wear out, break, and become obsolete is a "sales feature" to Sony.

Apple has cool tech that Sony does or should want in their throw away products.

Yet another Tuesday has passed without a major hardware announcement
:rolleyes:

michael666
Feb 24, 2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by plasticparadox
If I had to use a PC, I would buy a Vaio.

I wouldn't do it again. Besides my Mac, I'm using a VAIO laptop and it is just crap. I know, part of the blame has to go to Windows ME, but in combination the two crash more often than any other Windows machine I have ever seen or even heard of. Here in Japan, Sony's computers have the reputation of the most expensive crap on the market, and I fully agree with this.

0 and A ai
Feb 24, 2004, 10:37 PM
I hope sony makes a home media player with rendezvous support of iphoto and itunes with aac decoding as well as decoding of itunes music store downloads.

eclipse525
Feb 24, 2004, 10:38 PM
At first it sounds like a great idea of Sony and Apple getting together but for some reason I don't think it'll work. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the two do some amazing thing and being that Sony is HUGE worldwide that could benefit Apple big time. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if anything actually comes to fruition.

~e

agreenster
Feb 24, 2004, 10:45 PM
Whats even more remarkable is how so many companies are moving away from Microsoft/Windows. THAT's the trend I want to see ramp up.

Powerbook G5
Feb 24, 2004, 10:49 PM
I agree that their VAIO computers are seriously lacking in the quality department. I love Sony, they have some really awesome products that generally last forever which is why I am generally loyal to them, but I have yet to see one of their computers come close to being stable or reliable.

iAtom
Feb 24, 2004, 10:54 PM
It's strange; if they have such a good relationship with Apple, how come the Clie PDAs don't come with Mac OS X support?

Powerbook G5
Feb 24, 2004, 10:56 PM
Sony's response: "Oops, my bad!"

iomar
Feb 24, 2004, 11:02 PM
Great News!

sonyrules
Feb 24, 2004, 11:04 PM
I agree on the computer front, I am a big Fan of there high end audio and high end video, Create it on a mac, play it on a Sony ES DVD player. No complaints here. But it would be nice to see the two create some technologys that blow the rest of the world away, cause both companies are known to do that.

Digital Dubb
Feb 24, 2004, 11:05 PM
I don't think its a good Idea. Sony is known for stealling internal structures of a company and making their own. Small example but undetected: Nintendo and Sony had planned to worked together on an expansion for the Super Nintendo (do you remember that) which would enable the Super Nes to play cd-roms. Sony backed out the deal then created the playstation a seperate cd-rom console...Nuffff said.

12thgear
Feb 24, 2004, 11:20 PM
Actually, you have the console history backwards. Sony partnered with Nintendo to make a Super Famicom/CD device. Nintendo backed out at the last minute to work with Phillips. So Sony continued development and beefed it up, creating what would be the PlayStation.

Originally posted by Digital Dubb
I don't think its a good Idea. Sony is known for stealling internal structures of a company and making their own. Small example but undetected: Nintendo and Sony had planned to worked together on an expansion for the Super Nintendo (do you remember that) which would enable the Super Nes to play cd-roms. Sony backed out the deal then created the playstation a seperate cd-rom console...Nuffff said.

patmcfar8
Feb 24, 2004, 11:29 PM
IIRC, Nintendo is the one who backed out on Sony... regardless, they're big tech companies that would screw each other over to increase the bottom line regardless. ;)

Anyway here's a few other interesting tidbits from the article...

Idei on the similarities of Steve Jobs and Ken Kutaragi: "Two weeks ago I went to see Steve Jobs. I see many simliarities between Ken Kutaragi and Steve Jobs. Apple and SCE are about the same size, and they are both micromanagers who like to dive into the details of things. But at Pixar, Steve Jobs is very hands-off. Yet both of his companies are very successful. It's very interesting. He's learned when to be hands-on and when to be hands-off. If Ken can learn when to be hands-off, like Steve, well, this is what I'm hoping for..."

Also, later...

"But we would like to work more closely with them (Apple). My plan now is to get Steve Jobs together with our own Steve - Ken Kutaragi. They haven't met yet. It would be interesting to see how they would get along, because both of them think they have all of the answers. [Laughter] Where we go from here with Apple all depends on the chemistry between Ken and Steve."

I'm a big fan of Sony (not their computers, mind you) and I think any alliance with them could lead to good things for Apple. Just my opinion... ;)

JohnGillilan
Feb 25, 2004, 12:14 AM
Maybe there will be a Sony-Apple partnership to help the iTunes Music Store reach the rest of the world, or at least initially in Japan. I'm not sure how I feel about the potential BMG/Sony Music merger -- it could be harmful or beneficial.

sushi
Feb 25, 2004, 12:32 AM
In the FWIW department, Sony has already produced a Macintosh OS computer for Apple.

I used it.

It was very innovative at the time and it worked great!

Sushi

JohnGillilan
Feb 25, 2004, 12:35 AM
Here's another scenario that just popped up in my mind:

Does anyone remember the rumors of an Apple branded serious competitor to Digidesign's ProTools?? Sony's Oxford Audio Division makes a great console and their semi-recent release of Oxford plug-ins for ProTools have been extremely successful. Maybe Apple eMagic and Sony Oxford will release a co-branded software/hardware combo. This seems farfetched but who knows??

Also remember, Apple recently trademarked "morphpad" and "ultrabeat" under the heading of "computer hardware and software; software for use in authoring, editing, synthesizing, encoding, decoding, playing, storing and organizing audio data." (most lilekly unrelated)

Again, just some scattered thoughts of mine. Any thoughts??

SiliconAddict
Feb 25, 2004, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by plasticparadox


If I had to use a PC, I would buy a Vaio.

And then you'd promptly be pissed at the quality. Vaio quality has steadily been decreasing over the last few years. I know 6 relatives/friend/coworkers that have Sony hardware and in at least 4 of the cases, if memory serves, they have had hardware problems.

I'll live and die by Sony consumer products, all my home entertainment hardware is Sony, with one exception. Memory stick. Never again will I ever touch anything that uses that proprietary PoS. I purchased a Sony Cybershot 707 5megapixl camera 3 years ago at a cost of around one grand. Sony had stated they would be releasing memory sticks larger then 128MB in the near future. (This IS fact.) And in fact they did do such a thing. Memory sticks that are not compatible with the old version of the memory stick, dubbed Memory Stick Pro. They offered backward compatibility only to the extent that you have to flip a fricking switch on the memory stick select media card to access each 128MB partition. For a camera this is insane since to find a picture I have to plug it into the computer, search through the camera, oops its not on this partition, unplug the camera, remove the card, flip the switch, replace the card, plug the camera back in.
So in less then 6 months the dumb***** at Sony laid my one grand purchase obsolete all because they couldn't follow open standards such as CF or SD memory. If they had this would never have been an issue. Memory stick is not a superior format in any way shape or form. Its just a money generator plain and simple. And that money generator cost me a good camera. Sure it still works but AFAICT the largest ďboneĒ Sony has tossed those million plus pre memory stick pro users is the pathetic 256 card. And even if they did would I want to deal with 4 switches on a card for 512MB?!?!? Lets see which partition did I leave that picture in?

NEVER again will I EVER purchase any Sony device that uses the memory stick. This applies to cameras, PDA, cellphones, etc. I got burned once in life. Not twice.

With that being said I still want to see Sony and Apple develop standards in the online music realm. Like it or not DRMed music is fragmented with 2 major players (WMA and AAC.) and a few minor players. Microsoftís WMA is seen as a wanna be standard to the extent that its in many consumer based devices. Now let me think for a second who in this article is the master of consumer products? ;) Sony teaming with Apple could lead to widespread use of AAC and frankly I think there is growing animosity between Sony and Microsoft. There canít be any love lost between the companies when it comes to the PSX2 vs. the Xbox and Iím guessing the thought of leaving control of a media codec in the hands of Microsoft just plain scares Sony. The rest of the industry may be the whores of Microsoft but Iím betting Sony knows better. That and havenít they been using AAC for years? :confused: Wasnít it called atrackt a few years ago or something?

neutrino23
Feb 25, 2004, 12:52 AM
Maybe Sony has been getting better. Over the last 10 years I bought several Sony products, some costing thousands of dollars, and I have been disappointed in the quality (both in design and manufacturing). I am very unlikely to buy another Sony product.

Silencio
Feb 25, 2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by sushi
In the FWIW department, Sony has already produced a Macintosh OS computer for Apple.

I used it.

It was very innovative at the time and it worked great!


I also loved my Powerbook 100. Poky, but oh so sweet.

TMay
Feb 25, 2004, 01:03 AM
It seems to me that the Sony that SJ wants to emulate was the Sony Co-Founded and directed by Akio Morita, who almost single handedly created consumer electronics as we know it today.

I am in constant amazement at the perfectionism (often flawed) that SJ embodies, whether it be fonts, music, art, animation, or consumer products. Still, recent speculation of Sony purchasing Pixar, makes me a bit nervous.

While I certainly appreciate Steve's direction of both Apple and Pixar, it seems obvious that he would love to tackle the challenges of directing a far larger domain.

Kirk
Feb 25, 2004, 01:03 AM
Why not make all the Sony Playstation games run on Mac OS X? An extra chip in the iMac or something. That would be cool . . ! :D

Apple //e
Feb 25, 2004, 01:05 AM
i personally like sony consumer products and will pay a premium for them.

however, i will never buy a sony computer.

for desktops ill build my own.

for laptops, its ibm

SiliconAddict
Feb 25, 2004, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by Digital Dubb
I don't think its a good Idea. Sony is known for stealling internal structures of a company and making their own. Small example but undetected: Nintendo and Sony had planned to worked together on an expansion for the Super Nintendo (do you remember that) which would enable the Super Nes to play cd-roms. Sony backed out the deal then created the playstation a seperate cd-rom console...Nuffff said.

This is quite possibly the most twisted, messed up story in gaming console history. Here is what DID happen. (at least as far as I remember it since its late and I donít feel like digging around the 100+ copies of Next Generation magazine I have.
Sony and Nintendo entered into a partnership to build a CD-ROM based drive addon for the Super NES dubbed PSX since no one at the time knew what it was going to be hence the X variable. (The name that stuck for the Playstation. Sort a thumbing of the nose at Nintendo for giving Sony the brush off.) It was intended to combat the Sega CD that was released for the Saga Genesis at that time. At some point in time, well into the development stage on Sonyís part, Nintendo said goodbye and they parted ways. Personal theory. I'm betting Nintendo saw how badly an addon did for Sega (Sega CD had only minor success followed up by the colossal blunder called 32X.) and decided to ****can the program before they dropped to much coin into it.
Contrary to popular belief there was no fully built system for the Super NES. There was however the idea of Sony and gaming that did flourish. Itís probably a forgone conclusion that at least some of the folks that worked on that project went on to build the Playstation but thatís it. There was NO theft of anything.

Awimoway
Feb 25, 2004, 01:31 AM
My impression of Sony:

Innovative
Feature Rich
Poor Quality Control
Zero Customer Service


My impression of Apple:

Innovative
Features in Proportion to Need
Decent Quality Control (great for software, a little better than average for hardware)
Okay Customer Service

Evan_11
Feb 25, 2004, 01:40 AM
Design wise they seem nothing alike.
Apple designs easy to use interfaces. Almost zen like in use. Sony OTOH likes to cram everything into one small package with layers of techno menus and tiny buttons to use.

I like some Sony products but not others. Panasonic does just as well with innovation.

Where Sony and Apple are most alike is in their philosophy that "what we design is what you need". Take Sony's proprietary Betacam, minidisc or the newer SACD formats. All while high quality basically died with the public. Both companies tend to be too controlling when it comes to product. Its next to impossible to win this way because the market demands competition. Even if you beat the competition it does you little good then to keep it all to yourself by not licensing it.

Apple's finally changing this by releasing the hPod....

ph8te
Feb 25, 2004, 01:43 AM
I think that Apple's strategy of expanding their parnetship base is a good idea. After the slump in the economic world over the last xouple of years, it is good to see that companies are trying to help one another in creating new products and ideas.

Imagine having a Sony based home theatre system with all the bells and whistles, and the entire system can then be controlled from the Mac. There are many areas that Apple and Sony can work together. Sony could come out with a Nokia-like "Communicator" based on an OS with a light version or OS X. The possibilites with a strategic partnershp between these two companies are endless...

sushi
Feb 25, 2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by TMay
It seems to me that the Sony that SJ wants to emulate was the Sony Co-Founded and directed by Akio Morita, who almost single handedly created consumer electronics as we know it today.
Morita-san was a very interesting individual.

He definitely knew how to innovate and lead a developing industry.

Good skier too! :-)

Sushi

Demon
Feb 25, 2004, 03:05 AM
The only PCs i've owned are Sony desktop and laptop. but i still prefer Macs.. so i had to "reswitch" and go Mac again. My windows PCs crash like mad... unfortunately, many of the apps i use only run on Windows. should be called "Hanger" not "Windows" since it hangs every other boot up.

Anyway, Sony makes awesome designs and so does Mac, so with them working together, they can bring the ultimate PDA. "iClie" or something. the new CLIE TH series is really looking good... i would get it if i didn't have the hope Mac would come out with one sometime this year... haha.

virividox
Feb 25, 2004, 03:32 AM
maybe this is what the rumored home device is, a colab project between sony and apple. this i wouldnt mind so much

billyboy
Feb 25, 2004, 04:45 AM
Maybe they are collaborating on a consumer device to play Sony-Pixar movies.

the silver fox
Feb 25, 2004, 05:05 AM
I would love to see them produce great products together. The phone would obviously make the most sense given that it is a well known fact that Apple is a member of the consortium that provides the mp4 technology currently used in Sony-Ericsson phones like the P800 or P900 and, as the article mentions, the Clie.

However, there was an article on the register last year (couldnt find it, sorry) where Sony talked about how 'difficult' Steve was to work with. The problem here is one of a potential ego clash. Until relatively recently, Sony has ruled the nest when it comes to consumer products (particularly personal music systems). They must have been a mite peeved when the iPod came along and robbed them of a large (music player) user base. It stated in the article that it was unlikely that they would be working with each other again in the near future. I can only imagine that it is due to their continuing profits slide that they have realised that it was time to swallow hard and form a strategic alliance (an awful lot of mac users like or own a Clie as opposed to a Palm piece of hardware). It would be great if Sony was able to get round the lack of OOTB support for Macs in the next revision of the Palm OS (Cobol I believe).

Back to the phone... I myself have a P900. Since I bought it I haven't touched my Clie. Steve is quite right about the PDA, its time is over. It's all about convergence technologies. Apart being part of the consortium that provides Ericsson with its Video player, it has also worked with them directly to make sure that the SyncML technology works beautifully with Apple's iSync software (Well done Apple-France on coding that), and as Steve always says, "Who knows what we are working on in our labs".

ph8te
Feb 25, 2004, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by billyboy
Maybe they are collaborating on a consumer device to play Sony-Pixar movies.

There always has to be one who does not take these things seriously.

LOL

Matrix9180
Feb 25, 2004, 05:47 AM
Apple's history with Sony goes way back:
http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Hide_Under_This_Desk.txt&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=medium&search=closet

The floppy drive in the original Mac was by Sony =)

rotorblade
Feb 25, 2004, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by neutrino23
Maybe Sony has been getting better. Over the last 10 years I bought several Sony products, some costing thousands of dollars, and I have been disappointed in the quality (both in design and manufacturing). I am very unlikely to buy another Sony product.

I have to agree with you! I think the quality of Sony products has taken a serious nose-dive over the years. Every Sony product I've purchased since my CDP-707ESD and DTC-1500ES has had serious quality issues. Until Sony starts delivering quality products again, they're off my list.

mactarkus
Feb 25, 2004, 06:49 AM
I'm a huge fan of Sony products, products that include their stereo equipment and televisions, etc. However, I haven't been too keen on their computers since after they co-designed the PowerBook 100 way back when. Sony is trying hard on the whole convergence idea, but unfortunately they had little choice but to jump into the Wintel world where cheap is king. Their desktops and laptops do little more than slap different enclosures on the same commodity components running the same bloated OS. I think they should stick to beautiful televisions. It is nice to see them working with Apple -- I just don't know how they'll divide up the market between them in areas where they directly compete.

Photorun
Feb 25, 2004, 07:38 AM
Though I'm sure Steve has some respect, even if he has a hard time showing it, I just can't imagine him being able to have Sony too much the lead in anything because he's such a control freak.

FriarTuck
Feb 25, 2004, 07:50 AM
Sony, HP... none of these folks want Mister Softee to define standards any more than he already does.

bensisko
Feb 25, 2004, 07:51 AM
Before we jump to too many conclusions, I think, at least for the near future, the only thing we will see in a partnership between Apple and Sony is co-operation with music stores. Sony probably sees that Jobs is right when he says there is no money to be made by distibuting music online, and instead of creating their own infrastructure and trying to compete will Apple, Sony Music is probably insterested in making a deal with iTMS (maybe not nessessarily through iTMS, Sony will probably have it's own store, but will be "compatible" with the iPod and iTunes). If that were to happen, there would be the possibility of making a Sony branded iPod (purple?).

I seriously doubt Apple will liscense OS X to Sony (even if Sony wanted it, which they probably don't), and I doubt Apple will partner with Sony for any kind of iPhone (though a working relationship could mean improved connectivity between Apple products and Sony products).

bokdol
Feb 25, 2004, 07:52 AM
i wonder if this will bring on more mac game development. like fianl fantasy 11. i would love to have that and planet side.....

srobert
Feb 25, 2004, 08:00 AM
Wathever Sony and Apple are up to, my guess is that if they build something together, it won't be Mac only. It will have to be compatible with windows too. (That is, if the new product is computer related)

the_mole1314
Feb 25, 2004, 08:00 AM
I'm thinking we could see the iTMS on the PSP and PS2/3? That would be awsome.

billy
Feb 25, 2004, 08:05 AM
sony and apple would be nice together, especially if incorporated into Apple's industrial design...

gopher
Feb 25, 2004, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by iAtom
It's strange; if they have such a good relationship with Apple, how come the Clie PDAs don't come with Mac OS X support?

What do you mean no Mac OS X support?

http://www.markspace.com/ms_clie_purchase.html#updaters

rotorblade
Feb 25, 2004, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by gopher
What do you mean no Mac OS X support?

http://www.markspace.com/ms_clie_purchase.html#updaters

I believe the poster was referring to the fact that Sony does not provide the support themselves. Their lack of support does not speak well for their overall interest in supporting the Mac... at least at this time.

sinisterdesign
Feb 25, 2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by gopher
What do you mean no Mac OS X support?

http://www.markspace.com/ms_clie_purchase.html#updaters

i think we're looking for BUILT IN support, not 3rd party software. now that Palm is dumping us, maybe it's a moot point.

i love Sony products, but i have passed over a few in the past b/c of no Mac support. i just bought a LaCie firewire drive a couple weeks ago b/c the Sony i was looking at was PC only. i threw away my old Sony "MP3" (Atrac) player for the same reason. i already have a Sony Tivo, Sony camera, Sony widescreen HDTV, but having some Mac support/influence in some of the products would be REALLY nice.

crap, come to think of it, i may own more Sony branded stuff than Apple! c'mon steve, let's pen some deals over a bottle of sake...

actripxl
Feb 25, 2004, 08:33 AM
I've been thinking about this for a long time, it just makes perfect sense. If your Apple who better to license OSX to than a manufacture that charges a premium on their products as well. This will pretty much keep things stable and not eat away at Apple's revenue's like the clones did. If your Sony you really want to try and show MS a thing or two (how dare they challenge the PS2):D. Competition is good and anything that will get any Apple product mentioned will eventually lead to a Mac purchase somewhere.

KooStarck
Feb 25, 2004, 08:49 AM
Sony and IBM are collaborating on the Cell processor, which is essentially a PowerPC derivative with some built-in clustering features: Multiple Cell-powered devices can share the CPU load automatically, for instance. The practical upshot of this is that games for PS3 could use G5 Macs as a development platform, and it would make it a lot easier to port PS3 games to OS X. This would have been impossible with PS2 - too much custom hardware to emulate.

Microsoft's XBox Next is also using G5s, and -from reports- using G5 Macs as a development platform. Is this Apple's stealth strategy - they've already taken over Hollywood (and Indie-wood) and the music business, now they're going after the multi-billion-dollar console games market?

xDANx
Feb 25, 2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by fatbarstard
Anyway, it makes a whole boatload of sense for the two companies to work together - Jap efficiency and US innovation... makes a pretty formidable team

i'm sure that you weren't specifically trying to be offensive, but your post reinforces a whole bunch of stereotypes...the japanese as busy little worker bees, with the implication being that they need US help to innovate anything, which is obviously not true. oh, and the term 'jap' is actually a derogatory term, not merely an abbreviation. i just thought i'd point it out.

digital1
Feb 25, 2004, 10:02 AM
Is this going to bring back Apple/Sony game system consipiracy theories now? I suppose it would be interesting. But its like everyone is going to IBM anyways, I suppose open collaboration on a system of that sort would make some sense.

Shrike_Priest
Feb 25, 2004, 10:26 AM
I think that from Apple's point of view, it would be great to work with Sony on the Playstation line of products.

For several reasons:

1. They own the console market, which equals big, big, big userbase. Imagine if they could get an iTunes-version preloaded on the PS3? Roughly 50 million potential iTMS customers right there.
2. Tons of great exposure for Apple.
3. "outsourcing" of products. Why should Apple make a set-top-box if they could just connect a PSX or PS3 with a Mac and have them work together? I think something like that would drive sales of Macs crazy high, if it were to ever happen. Or make a PDA, when they could just add iCal/iTunes-syncing with the Sony PSP?
4. both companies are making their ownd digital hubs, but if they work together they'd get the most out of it.

Naturally, in my dream-scenario Sony wouldn't be benefiting that much compared to Apple, so something like this would probably never happen. But still, I'd be in heaven if it did.

flipflash77
Feb 25, 2004, 11:01 AM
The Holy Grail in any relationship Apple has with Sony has to be undoubtedly iTunes, and support for the iTunes Music Store. There would be no greater coup, no greater slap in Microsoft's face, and no greater validation than having the company that invented the Walkman and portable personal music players on-board with iTMS and FairPlay/AAC.

Of course whether that would happen or not is really a question mark. Sony is notorious for it's NIH-syndrome; "Not Invented Here". They would need to drop (or augment at least) support of their own proprietary ATRAC3 format and god-awful DRM (and you thought WMA DRM was restrictive) and SonicStage software, in favour of AAC which they would need to pay licensing for. But think of the insane potential market penetration that could be achieved with AAC-capable CD Walkman, NetMDs, and Sony's own MP3 player line? Granted, the latter two don't sell particularly well, but you always see people buying CD Walkman.

Will that cut into low-end iPod sales? Probably, but perhaps the greater exposure and increased user base might actually make iTMS more profitable. And the iPod will always be the goal device. Start people using iTMS on something low-end, and work them up to aniPod as their music collection grows.

Just my $0.02.

Silencio
Feb 25, 2004, 11:08 AM
At least with respect to the VAIO lines, Sony has tried really hard to build integrated multimedia creation and playback solutions. They've got most of the hardware aspects down well enough, but they have still yet to grasp the importance of good software that integrates well with the hardware. Too often they bundle together multimedia PCs with software from different vendors that is poorly documented, works inconsistently on their own or with each other (for movie editing and DVD authoring, for example). Looking at Sony's offerings, then looking again at Apple's iLife and professional suites, really drives home the point.

Apple can't really help Sony out in this venue unless they license out Mac OS X to Sony. I always thought Sony would be a natural candidate to license OS X for consumer/multimedia purposes, much like IBM is a natural candidate to license OS X for high-end workstation/server applications that Apple can't really target right now.

And I used to be an inveterate Sony brand loyalist myself. My dad did some consulting work for Sony in the 70s and flew back and forth to Tokyo quite a bit. He came up with his own tagline that became a mantra to me: "Sony, no baloney!" Unfortunately that's worn off over the years.

Like all big electronics manufacturers, some lines fare better than others: they still make the best overall consumer-level DV cams, but the quality of their low-to-midrange stereo components really took a nosedive, Panasonic/JVC/Toshiba have caught up on flat-screen TV technology, and Sony got a late start on plasma/LCD technology. Their vaunted design quality has been very inconsistent; some things are elegant and simple to understand, other products are too fussy and confusing. They have "Not-Invented-Here" syndrome (manifested most infamously in the Memory Stick) far worse than Apple ever did. It seems there isn't a strong overriding vision overseeing their product design and targeting. It's a harder task for a huge company with such a diverse product line; Steve Jobs and Jonathan Ive would be hard pressed to duplicate their success in this area at Apple if they were magically transported over to Sony.

mrsebastian
Feb 25, 2004, 11:11 AM
how about a multi-media box built by sony with apple specs and software.

concentricity
Feb 25, 2004, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by billy
sony and apple would be nice together, especially if incorporated into Apple's industrial design...

is it me, or does no one realize that Ideo has done a huge number of design projects for Apple? Everyone is always talking about Apple's industrial design, but no one seems to know that Apple learned design from Ideo. No doubt Apple is now great, but I'd be willing to bet they continue to work with Ideo.

srobert
Feb 25, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by concentricity
Everyone is always talking about Apple's industrial design, but no one seems to know that Apple learned design from Ideo.

You're right. Ideo designs are really good looking. Only them (maybe Apple too) could come up with such a swell looking "Kidney Transporter" ^_^

ó> Click to see: Kidney Transporter <ó (http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=50190)

I like their remote too:

ó>_Click to see: Wireless Handheld Remote <ó (http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=85691)

JJTiger1
Feb 25, 2004, 12:01 PM
... old rumor.

... new sparks :p

Apple is Debt-Free.

JJ

Elektronkind
Feb 25, 2004, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Sony is a good company.

Too bad we don't have a weblink on this puppy.

Maybe the phone is gonna use MPEG4 video support?

Hmmmm... don't know, maybe.

It most likely already does.

GSM/GPRS phones use the 3GPP video/audio codec, which is a part of the MPEG-4 spec... just like AAC is.

/ek

flipflash77
Feb 25, 2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by JJTiger1
... old rumor.

... new sparks :p

Apple is Debt-Free.
But Sony quality control has gone way down over the past several years. I'd rather apple stay independant, at least in terms of their manufacturing contracts and specifications. Isn't Sony in debt up to it's eyeballs and laying off lots of people worldwide??

yakirz
Feb 25, 2004, 02:28 PM
Do you think Steve would license OS X to Sony?

Macmaniac
Feb 25, 2004, 03:01 PM
Heh, if Apple bought Sony, Bill gates would shoot himself, if Sony is in a slump, now is the perfect time to buy them, keep the Sony brand name, but have Apple as the official company!

takao
Feb 25, 2004, 03:28 PM
i thinking this whole
sony / apple rumor has to do perhaps something with those 'Black Onyx' tft-screens
perhaps Apple wants them, to put into their new displays or laptops
those screens are the best laptop screens IMO

gopher
Feb 25, 2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by takao
i thinking this whole
sony / apple rumor has to do perhaps something with those 'Black Onyx' tft-screens
perhaps Apple wants them, to put into their new displays or laptops
those screens are the best laptop screens IMO

The 17" LCDs Apple has now in the 1.33 Ghz Laptop IMHO are the best i've ever seen. It is so bright it lights the whole room!

As for Apple/Sony merger, I've been hyping that for years. Sony will among other things be forced to finally make their Mavica cameras easier to access from Macs. And some DV Camcorders of Sony don't work with iMovie, or with any other PC other than their Vaio computers. If Sony and Apple merged, they'd both become more open as they'll need to make their products more open to each other!

takao
Feb 26, 2004, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by gopher
The 17" LCDs Apple has now in the 1.33 Ghz Laptop IMHO are the best i've ever seen. It is so bright it lights the whole room!

i never saw a powerbook in real life so i can't compare .......sad but true

rdowns
Feb 26, 2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by takao
i never saw a powerbook in real life so i can't compare .......sad but true

My god. Hard to sleep at night when you see poor, deprived people such as this. :D

gopher
Feb 26, 2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by takao
i never saw a powerbook in real life so i can't compare .......sad but true

In Innsbruck:

Steiger Electronics
Innrain 87
6020 Innsbruck
www.steigermedia.com

takao
Feb 26, 2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by gopher
In Innsbruck:

Steiger Electronics
Innrain ....

i know i tried to find that shop already ...no success until now ... walking around in snow isn't funny ;-)

but i think postive ..i can't buy something there without reconsidering.. ;)

perhaps i'll take another look when there are new powermacs/powerbooks/imac

BTW: my comment about the powerbook was more like : "i never saw anybody using one" :)

jero
Feb 26, 2004, 08:17 PM
sony and apple are my TWO FAVORITE companies. its not even funny how many products i have owned from both. sony is one of the largest companies in japan and have loyal support from the japanese and apple doing business with them sounds awesome to me.

GregA
Feb 26, 2004, 08:26 PM
Sony has it's finger in so many pies they could collaborate anywhere. Negotiate as a computer company, phone company, music distributor, movie company, game console company, game writer company, stereo-system company, etc

Much as I'd like it, I don't see Apple licensing Mac OSX. I think they'd have to charge a high amount to reflect their cost of upkeep, and Sony wouldn't pay it.

I could see potential for Apple to license iLife-for-Windows to Sony though. It would give Sony a nice differentiating factor, incorporate iTMS, give Apple some iLife revenue, and extend AAC support. And open up many more possibilities.
(would the HP deal prevent this?)

iChan
Mar 3, 2004, 09:09 AM
i think apple should consider using the black onyx or onyx black screens that are currently on sony vaio's. these screen put the apple laptop displays to shame... the contrast levels are unbelievable and also the vibrancy, they really have to be seen to be fully appreciated.

iChan
Mar 3, 2004, 09:24 AM
I don't think its a good Idea. Sony is known for stealling internal structures of a company and making their own. Small example but undetected: Nintendo and Sony had planned to worked together on an expansion for the Super Nintendo (do you remember that) which would enable the Super Nes to play cd-roms. Sony backed out the deal then created the playstation a seperate cd-rom console...Nuffff said.

Digital Dubb, you ahve gotten your facts all wrong. Nintendo pulled out of the deal with Nintendo because nintendo decided that optical media was too slow for loading games...


get your facts straight please.

the playstation was the neglected baby of an unloving parent - Nintendo.

mpowell77
Mar 11, 2004, 03:36 PM
I don't understand why apple would work with sony. None of sony's products come with software or drivers for use with macs. I repeat none of them. And now apple is working with sony and helping out with connectivity of video camera's. The only reason that some sony products work with macs is because of Apple itself creates drivers and is including them with the os. When I received a mini disc player for a present and couldn't use it I called customer support and had that person tell me "There is not enough mac customers to create a driver and software for that platform." I was a huge sony customer till that day and have not bought another sony product since and will not ever buy one again.