Apple Acknowledges 10.5.6 'Configuring Installation' Issue

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/19/apple-acknowledges-10-5-6-configuring-installation-issue/)

Apple released a technote (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2383) detailing an issue that some users have run into while installing the latest Mac OS X Software Update. When attempting to update software using Software Update in Mac OS X 10.5, the update process may stop responding while "Configuring installation" is visible in the update window.Apple describes that this may happen when trying to install a partially downloaded update. The work-around is to remove the partially downloaded update and try again. The incomplete update files may be found in "/Library/Updates" and can be safely deleted before trying Software Update again.

Alternatively, users can download the Combo update (list here (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/15/apple-releases-mac-os-x-10-5-6/)) and install it themselves.

It seems that the bug resulting in the partially downloaded file affects Mac OS X 10.5.1 through 10.5.5. Once you successfully installed 10.5.6, the issue seems to be fixed for future updates.

Article Link: Apple Acknowledges 10.5.6 'Configuring Installation' Issue (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/19/apple-acknowledges-10-5-6-configuring-installation-issue/)

[137489]

I wonder if this is the cause of my long boot up. since 10.5.6 my system beachballs for 1-2 minutes while starting up. otherwise it is fine.

other than that I had been 8 months without a problem.

[stefanski]

I had exactly this problem on my MBP. And I can confirm that it was because of an only partly downloaded file. After deleting it and re-running the update, all is well.

[irishgrizzly]

Because this issue I did a Combo update for the 1st time.

[the vj]

I just have the same problem. I got a new Mac Pro last week and I upgraded it and now when I boot up the machine it takes about 4 minutes, the screen stays blue for at least 4 to 5 minutes.

At first I rebooted the machine twice, then I was searching in the internet for the problem on another machine and all of the sudden it was ok.

My sugestion, do not update your OS, there are actually no improvements.

[scotty96LSC]

My update downloaded completely, or so it stated, but when I tried to install something to the effect, "couldn't verify software ..., contact software company for help."
I deleted the download from library>updates. Worked fine a secondtime.

[Jiddick ExRex]

eh? It's out?

[Melan]

I had this exact problem with safari 3.2.1, but not 10.5.6. I ended up solving the safari problem by downloading the dmg from apple.com and installing it from there

[Kilamite]

Didn't suffer from this luckily.

Pretty shocking that this happened though.

[motulist]

I can't even tell if anything is different in 10.5.6. Mail.app still doesn't always beep when new mail comes in. My airport still only works with some wifi networks but fails to connect to certain open wifi networks that 10.3 machines and Vista machines can connect to. etc.

Did 10.5.6 actual improve anything for anyone?

[themoonisdown09]

I didn't have this problem on either of my Macs. It was smooth for me, and so far so good.

[MacsBestFriend]

huh, this happened on my moms computer. we just thought it was because the computer requires a password to download anything...

[pete-01]

isn't the combo update overkill? isn't there also a standalone update that updates just 10.5.5 to 10.5.6? Doesn't the combo update update 10.5.1-10.5.5 to 10.5.6?

i keep seeing this advice to use the combo update in these scenarios, but the non-combo update (not through software update) did not show this issue, did it? it was just the update that software update was propagating.

[fredf]

pretty shocking that it took several days for Apple to respond with instructions. And yes, don't download this 'fix' unless you have a problem. And, even if you do, it's likely not going to help. more grief than it's worth.

[Kilamite]

isn't the combo update overkill? isn't there also a standalone update that updates just 10.5.5 to 10.5.6? Doesn't the combo update update 10.5.1-10.5.5 to 10.5.6?

i keep seeing this advice to use the combo update in these scenarios, but the non-combo update (not through software update) did not show this issue, did it? it was just the update that software update was propagating.

The combo will replace all system files with those updated from 10.5.1 to 10.5.6. When a single update causes problems, the combo updater usually fixes it.

The normal updater through Software Update had this issue, but it only affected a certain number of people.

If you are cautious, just download the combo updater. It won't do any damage..

[137489]

The combo will replace all system files with those updated from 10.5.1 to 10.5.6. When a single update causes problems, the combo updater usually fixes it.

The normal updater through Software Update had this issue, but it only affected a certain number of people.

If you are cautious, just download the combo updater. It won't do any damage..

Explains why the software update showed 191 mb an the combo update is showing almost 700mb.

Explain cautious :confused: this is my frist time using combo update, since I seem to have a slow startup problem. It is a dmg package - does that not just open up and install like any other dmg's?

also, when i first did the 10.5.6, I noticed to that the trackpad had it's own sytem preference. Not sure, but it looks like they added an option or two? here's to hoping for multi-touch coming to older macbooks through a software update.

[dr_lha]

I wonder if this is the cause of my long boot up. since 10.5.6 my system beachballs for 1-2 minutes while starting up. otherwise it is fine.

other than that I had been 8 months without a problem.
That is not the issue being described by this article.
Explains why the software update showed 191 mb an the combo update is showing almost 700mb.
No, combo updates are always much larger than the Software Update ones, because they contain everything. 190Mb is the correct size for the 10.5.6 updater on some platforms.

[dr_lha]

My sugestion, do not update your OS, there are actually no improvements.
Bull. 10.5.6 fixed several annoying bugs for me, including the "Mail won't quit" one.

[Kilamite]

Explain cautious :confused: this is my frist time using combo update, since I seem to have a slow startup problem. It is a dmg package - does that not just open up and install like any other dmg's?

also, when i first did the 10.5.6, I noticed to that the trackpad had it's own sytem preference. Not sure, but it looks like they added an option or two? here's to hoping for multi-touch coming to older macbooks through a software update.

If you are a cautious person and are paranoid about all of this, then apply the combo update so you can sleep at night ;)

Apple did this to keep all their laptops have similar System Preferences. The old MacBook's don't have the hardware to support multi-touch (other than two finger scrolling).

Apple would never update old products to support what the new products offer. They don't work that way - the Genius feature on the iPod, the Multi-Touch MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air's (pre late-2008 models) that are yet to see an official update to support 4 finger swiping.

[137489]

I just have the same problem. I got a new Mac Pro last week and I upgraded it and now when I boot up the machine it takes about 4 minutes, the screen stays blue for at least 4 to 5 minutes.




Not exactly my problem. my displays my wallpaper and my icons. then it beachballs for 1-2 minutes while loading my menu bar. Nothing new was added before the 10.5.6 - all my software was already installed when I did the 10.5.6. I deleted the file in the folder mentioned and am downloading the combo now. Quite hefty, so this is gonna take a while.

UPDATE:

*Hmm - must have been my problem, a partial update; yet my symptoms were different and did not appear as a partial. I did the combo and the first reboot took forever and sent my fans racing. Now, it boots up quickly., and my menu bar loads a lot quicker and no beach balls.

[peterdevries]

Didn't suffer from this luckily.

Pretty shocking that this happened though.

Why is that shocking? These things can happen. I have a windows PC that keeps installing the same update everytime I turn it off. Now that's annoying. At least Apple provides a standard workaround for this.

It's annoying I think, but nothing more than that...

[Kar98]

Bull. 10.5.6 fixed several annoying bugs for me, including the "Mail won't quit" one.

Right. Now it actually quits all by itself when trying to reply/quote to messages sent from Hotmail that have remotely linked images* embedded.

*smileys stored at the hotmail servers

[Orion27]

It's really quite simple. I'm always amazed at the impatience and ignorance surrounding these updates. First, Apple is not God though lord knows it sometimes seems so. Operating system code is a complex enterprise. The process is not infallible. Third party applications, obscure code glitch's and untidy users can affect the code stream. 99.99% percent of the time all goes well. One has to remember, OS X, Windows XP, Vista, Linux and even flavors of Unix are constantly tweaked and built upon. They are not finished systems.
Between updates, Apple, just as Microsft, offer security patches, application tweaks ect. Most conscientious users install these updates when offered. Many do not, particularly those with dial up or slow speed connections. Indeed, many never install these updates, content using 10.5 or even earlier versions of OS X. When a update is offered, say 10.5.6, it is meant to install on top of 10.5.5 as a stand alone update. Systems are amazingly robust reliable. Common sense dictates, over periods of time a bit or two may corrupt on the the hard drive. One may not notice until an update when a specific operation is called up. To eliminate trouble and inconsistency over time, keep your system current and keep your desktop organized. Multiple files on the desktop slows boot time. Organize them in folders. If you have neglected previous updates, security patches ect, download the Combo Update from the Apple downloads page. Those with slow connections I feel your pain but that is not Apple's fault. Do your download overnight. Regular
and consistent updates keep your system optimized. One more caveat. Be the first on the block to install to an update if you must. I usually do but I take responsibility for my actions, a rare thing theses days. My advice is to wait a day or two and see how things shake out with early adopters. When the coast is clear update.

[KindredMAC]

My PowerMac G5 took the update like a champ but my MacBook has been acting like a short circuiting droid, getting all pissy with me. Software Update crashes on launch, tried downloading the combo update but keep getting the same codec error.

The HDD has been acting up on the MacBook since June so I am thinking I've got some bad sectors on the disk and I need to just swap out the drive for a newer, larger one. I've reformatted this one probably 6 times since buying it back in May '06 due to glitches. It's time.....

[dr_lha]

Right. Now it actually quits all by itself when trying to reply/quote to messages sent from Hotmail that have remotely linked images* embedded.

*smileys stored at the hotmail servers
I'm sure you give more details in the bug report you submitted to Apple. Right?

[cecemf]

Personnally I didn't had any problem at all

[synth3tik]

It is rather upsetting that this has been an issue since 10.5.1, and Apple is only now acknowledging it only after they finally fixed it.

[skillwill]

Everything was fine with mine too!

A few people say they are not bothered with it because "it hasn't done anything" ... I'm sure a lot happens behind your desktop - maybe you don't notice the difference between every 10.5.x update, but go back to using 10.5 for while, then update to 10.5.6 and you will see the differences these updates clearly make.

and it doesn't have to be a major change, don't expect a brand new os with it, for example I was happy that this update stopped microsoft word text being copied into iChat im's as a picture, it's good that they would improve something small but annoying like that.

[trevu]

what about the 10.4.11 update?

That installed itself via Software Update and left my Macbook on the white startup screen and twirly thing for hours. Nothing could fix it for me, even delving into the terminal and trying all sorts of fixes all over the net.
It took an archive and install to sort it out.

If that had happened a day earlier Apple would have been in my black book forever.....incredible that an official update can just paralyse your entire machine!!

[Soat]

Installed on two Early 08 MBPs and a Unibody MBP, smooth installs.

Only problem I'm seeing is a SLIGHT reoccurance of the Black Screen of Death on my Unibody, but only during weird situations, like running 3 processes of World of Warcraft simultaneously while plugging in my iPhone with iTunes closed (and thus launching yet another bloated process). I should stop stressing my hardware...

[twoodcc]

hmm, glad i didn't run into this issue. seems like an easy work around though

[yuhaii]

Just remind you guys to backup your data. I have a bad experience for that!!!! My update has the exactly problem. I took my macbook air to the genius bar. The guy installed combo updates too. But It came to the end that My harddriver is failure. i can't start up my computer anymore. Before restart, verify the disk shows "invalid key length". The genius bar guy told me that I have to change my harddriver. How is it possible to come out this way?:(

[ltldrummerboy]

I always use the combo update and have never had a problem on two Macs. I just close all open apps before installing the update and I haven't had anything go awry yet.

Edit: As the poster above me says, it's a good idea to back up before any major update. I do that too.

[pknz]

Yeah I had this problem, tried it twice before checking the downloaded update size which was something around 60MB, as apposed to Software Updates 190MB. So I re-downloaded and its been fine since. Touchwood.

[jnc]

5.6 is so goddamn broken, it makes 5.5 look good. Jesus. absolutely terrible.

[Kilamite]

5.6 is so goddamn broken, it makes 5.5 look good. Jesus. absolutely terrible.

Really? What issues you having?

I've had no issues at all with 10.5.6. Extremely stable, if not slightly more responsive than 10.5.5.

[MARCHAND]

As mentioned below. Delete previous files and download the full Combo updater. First run permissions repairs always before doing an update. Second install the combo updater and all will be good.

The note that states do not run update and there are no improvements in this update is simply grossly incorrect. There are substantial fixes in this update and there always is. Always RUN APPLE UPDATES These guys do not spend hours upon hours creating updates of no value.

Often problems come from poorly maintained machines or poorly installed updates. If you follow the above Protocol you will avoid a lot of issues created by latency connections.
Best Wishes

[dylanschafer]

I cannot, for the life of me, find the updates folder. also, how am I supposed to reset permissions or whatever? I need to gt this fixed and don't want to come off as stupid, but this is really aggravating. I guess I need step-by-step tutelage.

I've included a screen shot of my library where the folder should be

[tingly]

When it happened to me, I couldn't find the partial, but downloaded the whole file from www.apple.com which worked.

[dylanschafer]

yeah, I tried that. the installer and itunes won't open, so I can't install the combo update or any other for that matter.

could it be...I'm running 10.4.11. apple prompted me to update to 10.5.6. I can't do that can I? maybe I stupidly just hit update, but then again why should such an update even be an option on my laptop?

[dylanschafer]

yeah, anyone know how to remove the update 10.5.6 so I can get back to 10.4.11?

[Orion27]

yeah, anyone know how to remove the update 10.5.6 so I can get back to 10.4.11?

Apple 10.5 is Leopard. 10.4.11 is Tiger. You have to buy the upgrade Leopard Disk which will update your system to 10.5. From 10.5 you can apply the 10.5 updates. If you want to go back to Tiger, use the install disk Tiger to revert.
Why would you want to do that?

[tj8]

this update ballsed up my macbook, completely ruined the whole thing. so badly, that i had to restart the whole thing from scratch, with the installation discs and all that. luckily i do back up some files, but not all of my films and music so that has all had to be completely put on again. im noooooooooo using this installation until its confirmed as bug-free, or the newest one comes out.

was very annoying and time consuming.

[dylanschafer]

my software updater told me to install 10.5.6. not cool, I know. but I need to go back to 10.4.11. or find a way to remove 10.5.6. ideas?

[Orion27]

this update ballsed up my macbook, completely ruined the whole thing. so badly, that i had to restart the whole thing from scratch, with the installation discs and all that. luckily i do back up some files, but not all of my films and music so that has all had to be completely put on again. im noooooooooo using this installation until its confirmed as bug-free, or the newest one comes out.

was very annoying and time consuming.

Helpful hint: Back up regularly. OS X Leopard has automatic backup called Time Machine. Use it.

[137489]

I cannot, for the life of me, find the updates folder. also, how am I supposed to reset permissions or whatever? I need to gt this fixed and don't want to come off as stupid, but this is really aggravating. I guess I need step-by-step tutelage.

I've included a screen shot of my library where the folder should be

Interesting mine is there :confused: At first I was confused and went to the /system/library (shows you how much I get deep under the hood :o). But I guess that is I had no problems up to now, and not having to look is a good thing.

all those people who said to me "that is not what the article said" , "or that is not the symptom". well, I cannot explain before the 10.5.6 software update why my system was fine, after the update I got the beachballs when booting and loading my menu bar. then after I deleted the update and applied the combo - i went back to being all fine and dandy.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come. I get a lot of this on Windows (1/2 machines messing up after autoupdates, the other 1/2 machines are fine). Went through a streak a few months back where every Windows update during a 2-month time hosed mine and several other PC's.

[mrkgoo]

The shocking thing isn't that it happens, but that when it does, it is not acknowledged by the system.

I had repeated partial downloads (this was early on - I had to research it to find a fix), and while it was downloading, it would suddenly 'finish', expand AND verify. How can it verify, when the size was totally wrong? That's the scary part.

[137489]

Helpful hint: Back up regularly. OS X Leopard has automatic backup called Time Machine. Use it.

Question on that note. Does time machine due a full hard drive backup, or only certain files? since I use my macbook a lot, it seems at times some backups take longer than others to run. Can I include othe drives? I am thinking about buying a 1 tb network drive and then converting the USB drive I have now to a data drive. that should be more than enough for my music, movies, etc. and then when I travel, only have my work essential items on it.

[tj8]

Helpful hint: Back up regularly. OS X Leopard has automatic backup called Time Machine. Use it.
Helpful Hint: Try not to sound like a smarmy know it all when giving advice. Some of us can't afford an external hard-drive when the laptop sets you back quite a bit already.

[Doc69]

This happened on my 2.0GHz Powermac G5 when I took it from 10.5.5 to 10.5.6, even though I used the combo updater. On second try, with the same .dmg file, it worked. My Macbook Pro updated without issues.

[137489]

Helpful Hint: Try not to sound like a smarmy know it all when giving advice. Some of us can't afford an external hard-drive when the laptop sets you back quite a bit already.

Here's an option for you. if you have an old computer that you are not using and had bit the dust (but the hard drive is still good) - get your self a USB external enclosure for the drive. Enclosures have dropped to at low as $25 depending on where you look. they now come in sizes to support the 3 1/2 inch desk top drive and 2.5 laptop drives. just make sure the enclosure is the right connection (IDEE, SATA, eSATA - or whatever the drive is using).

I used to have 3 or 4 of them laying around, before I got out of the PC repair ministry. They worked good, I had a friend who had a house fire, the laptop was toast and could not even recognize it. I grabbed his laptop, broke the cover and keyboard off of it (trust me it was pretty melted). Saw that the harddrive looked good (just had black soot on it). Plugged it up to an enclosure and hooked it up to my expendable (kept one with just an OS incase of viruses) laptop's USB. Drive was good, and got all his data back for him. Just the boot sector seemed to take a hit.

I done the enclosure thing many times to reuse hard drives, or too extract data from a drive where the OS or boot sector was trashed.

I do not think drive size matters too much with time machine (as long as it can hold one full backup). time machine will delete the oldest backup (you can set it to warn you), to make room for the newest one. I have a 500 gb harddrive for my laptop. I was using a 250 internal hard drive from a 4-year old HP machine for my wife's mini until a popup -no warning thunderstorm gave the drive a spike.

[Orion27]

Helpful Hint: Try not to sound like a smarmy know it all when giving advice. Some of us can't afford an external hard-drive when the laptop sets you back quite a bit already.

Then don't complain about lost data. Back up critical data and files you don't want to lose. You must have skipped school the day that was covered in 101.
Hard Drives are historically very inexpensive. Pennies per GB.

[stevo86]

Well my macbook updated with no problems, but my mac pro.. not so much.

I just blindly started updating when it popped up without paying much attention, so I wouldn't be able to tell you the size of the file. But, it seemed to go fine, then it asked me to restart. It hasn't booted up since. It just stays at the gray apple logo with that little circle animation spinning round and round, perpetually.

I don't know how i'm supposed to get into that folder to delete it and try again if i can't even boot up... any help would be greatly appreciated!

[lkrupp]

I can't even tell if anything is different in 10.5.6. Mail.app still doesn't always beep when new mail comes in. My airport still only works with some wifi networks but fails to connect to certain open wifi networks that 10.3 machines and Vista machines can connect to. etc.

Did 10.5.6 actual improve anything for anyone?

There were over 100 bug fixes in 10.5.6, most of which the average user would never notice. There were also a slew of security patches in 10.5.6. So, yes, it improves things and should be installed by everyone who runs Leopard. In my personal situation the update cleared up a minor Bluetooth issue on my Aluminum iMac. And contrary to your statement my Mail.app now plays all of the various sounds consistently. However the "no mail" and the "sent mail" sounds are now sent through the system alerts channel so you have to have the "Play user interface sound effects" checked in the Sound preference panel. You can adjust the Finder sounds by lowering the volume slide to zero.

[Orion27]

Well my macbook updated with no problems, but my mac pro.. not so much.

I just blindly started updating when it popped up without paying much attention, so I wouldn't be able to tell you the size of the file. But, it seemed to go fine, then it asked me to restart. It hasn't booted up since. It just stays at the gray apple logo with that little circle animation spinning round and round, perpetually.

I don't know how i'm supposed to get into that folder to delete it and try again if i can't even boot up... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Startup with your install disk and delete the file that way. Always good to have another bootable external hard drive though.

[mrkgoo]

Helpful Hint: Try not to sound like a smarmy know it all when giving advice. Some of us can't afford an external hard-drive when the laptop sets you back quite a bit already.

You can't afford to backup your data? Seriously, can you afford NOT to? What is more important than the data? Every part of your computer is replaceable EXCEPT the data, UNLESS you backup.

I would say some sort of backup facility is a MUST for anyone doing anything remotely important with their computer.

[audio_inside]

You must have skipped school the day that was covered in 101.

Man, some people just don't get it...

ANYWAY... My 3 machines (a MacPro and two G4 Powerbooks) are updated to 10.5.6 but there were some tense moments. Having heard of some rough landings with 10.5.6 I took what I thought to be a very conservative approach, doing full backups first, repairing permissions, cleaning caches, disconnecting peripherals, etc., then doing clean reboots and running the update off a Combo Update DVD with no other apps active.

All 3 rebooted themselves twice to complete the installation - spooky behavior I don't remember ever experiencing with another MacOS update - and my MacPro machine hung on shutdown before I power-cycled it (after waiting several hours). All the initial restarts took quite awhile as well, but they eventually resurrected themselves and now everything appears fairly happy.

Whew!

[dylanschafer]

the real question is why software updater thought I could go from 10.4.11 to 10.5.6...and if I can get back. my software update.log looks like this:

2008-12-18 02:13:13 -0800: Installed "Security Update 2008-008 (Intel)" (1.0)

even though I'm running 10.4.1. any ideas to get that undone?
are 10.5.6 and security update 2008-008 the same?

[motulist]

some sort of backup facility is a MUST for anyone doing anything remotely important with their computer.

Double, triple, quadruple true. Your hard drive WILL crash one day, guaranteed. The only question is when. You can buy a new monitor, you can buy a new video card, you can buy a new blank hard drive - but you can't buy back your digital photos again! If you're using a computer without a reasonably regular backup system, then you might as well be a Buddhist monk working on a mandala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandala#In_Buddhism), because one day very soon everything you've worked so hard over on your computer will disappear with the rushing wind and water and then be gone forever.

To symbolize impermanence (a central teaching of Buddhism), after days or weeks of creating the intricate pattern, the sand is brushed together and is usually placed in a body of running water to spread the blessings of the mandala.

[dylanschafer]

my new problem may be that security update 2008-008, and not an update to 10.5.6, has caused installer, itunes, etc to stop working. any ideas on a fix for this?

guess I was chasing the wrong latest mac issue.

running 10.4.11

[stevo86]

Startup with your install disk and delete the file that way. Always good to have another bootable external hard drive though.

And if i'm a total idiot who has lost his install disk? I'm sure it's around here somewhere, but after moving 5-6 times in the last 2.5 years and never once needing that disk... seems i've lost track of it.

EDIT:
Wow, security update 2008-008 definitely rings a bell... pretty sure that is what i installed. My mac pro doesn't even have leopard on it, it has tiger.

[jsalzer]

I didn't have the problem installing (though I'm glad that MR had me paying attention to the size of the download to make sure I didn't.)

However, Mail now acts as if it can only do one thing at a time. Am I the only one experiencing this?

For example, if I'm typing an e-mail, when Mail decides to check the servers for new mail, the entire app becomes unresponsive to my typing and to mouse clicks for 30 seconds while it checks and downloads the new mail.

I'm about to submit a bug report, but I'm just curious if anyone else is experiencing this.

[Orion27]

And if i'm a total idiot who has lost his install disk? I'm sure it's around here somewhere, but after moving 5-6 times in the last 2.5 years and never once needing that disk... seems i've lost track of it.

EDIT:
Wow, security update 2008-008 definitely rings a bell... pretty sure that is what i installed. My mac pro doesn't even have leopard on it, it has tiger.
FireWire Target disk mode to another Mac or PC with FireWire

[kaioslider]

I did the update via the software update and I got a hang. I forced the reboot and all seemed well; the system profiler indicated that the OS was 10.5.6. I keep my Time Machine backup disk connected to my PowerBook Dock. When I noticed Time Machine was not backing up I tried a couple of different things to get it to work, nothing seemed to work. I found that a lot of people were complaining about TM not working after the update, and then I saw this article indicating update issue.

Since the update was not normal, I deleted the update as indicated and tried again and I'm guess that since my system was showing 10.5.6 it was not downloading the update. So I tried option two, download it directly, but this did not work at all, every single time it tried to mount my Powerbook froze or crashed. I was about ready to do a reinstalled when I thought I'd try downloading the update on my iMac (which had not issues with the update) and then transfer the update to my PowerBook. That worked like a charm. I brought my backup disk home with me (since my iMac is at home) and plugged it in after the update - worked as it was suppose to. Really not sure what happened, but as my PB continues to age it gets more and more quirky with each of Apple's updates. The thing still runs great and it runs all of the OmniGroup apps I use, M$ Office (2004), and email and web. One thing to look forward to with Snow Leopard is it won't be on this PB since PPC are not supported (last I understood), which is fine. I use my Intel iMac for more intensive stuff so it works out pretty good.

Anyways, if you're running into the same problem as I had - not being able to download the update directly - try downloading it separately and then transfer it over.

[stevo86]

Found my install disks! but i can't get them in :S... CD drive doesn't wanna open.

[marombo]

I just had the same problem, and already wasted more than half an hour on this, including a phone call to Apple support which was not very helpful.

I wonder:
Why did Apple release such a sloppy software update?

Now, that they know that there's a hanging problem for some users, why are they still distributing the 10.5.6 update without a fix?

The person that I talked to at Apple support didn't tell me that Apple is aware of this problem. He just told me to restart my computer, warning me though that this could later cause problems on my system.

So, who is spending money on ads instead of fixing problems, Apple or Microsoft?

[captan]

Did 10.5.6 actual improve anything for anyone?

Rendering text in Java OpenGL (JOGL) applications now works again :)

[jnc]

Really? What issues you having?

I've had no issues at all with 10.5.6. Extremely stable, if not slightly more responsive than 10.5.5.

Internet's become damn near unusable. I've had wifi issues and prayed this would fix them, now it's pot luck whether a page even loads or not.

[Kilamite]

Internet's become damn near unusable. I've had wifi issues and prayed this would fix them, now it's pot luck whether a page even loads or not.

So it is just the internet?

Did you start a topic in the Mac OS X forum explaining your setup and symptoms so we can help? ;)

[JeffDM]

It's really quite simple. I'm always amazed at the impatience and ignorance surrounding these updates. First, Apple is not God though lord knows it sometimes seems so. Operating system code is a complex enterprise. The process is not infallible.

True, but an installer checking to see it's the correct length isn't hard to do. Heck, I thought running a quick checksum comparison was standard procedure for installers, a checksum error should arise if the file is the wrong length or if the file is corrupted.

Helpful Hint: Try not to sound like a smarmy know it all when giving advice. Some of us can't afford an external hard-drive when the laptop sets you back quite a bit already.

The problem is that they are right, even if it's a bitter pill in terms of cost. While hard drives don't actually fail as often as some people claim they do, the majority live long enough that they still work when they are replaced. Still, they fail often enough that if there is any value in the data on a drive, it's worth backing up somehow.

At least decent external drives only cost a tiny fraction of an Apple notebook. If you have an internal drive from a tower, you can put it in an external enclosure at an even lower cost. The good drives on Newegg are cheap, and the ones in ad inserts in a Sunday newspaper are usually competitive too.

[Live Steam]

such a crapshoot? Should this be the case and did they put something out there too soon? Why would they do that? Why would they put an update out that clearly wasn't ready or well thought out? They had to know this would be a problem for many.

[GGJstudios]

It would help if you said what update you're talking about. If you're referring to Mac OS X 10.5.6, the update worked fine for millions of Mac users, not to mention there are already threads where this is being discussed (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=10.5.6+site%3Aforums.macrumors.com&as_qdr=w&btnG=Search). No need for a new thread.

[satcomer]

Well did you read the apple Support document Mac OS X 10.5: Software Update stops responding during "Configuring installation" (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2383)? Plus you can always re-download the 10.5.6 Combo Update (http://support.apple.com/downloads/Mac_OS_X_10_5_6_Combo_Update) and run it. A Combo Update usually fixes update screw ups.

[Live Steam]

It would help if you said what update you're talking about. If you're referring to Mac OS X 10.5.6, the update worked fine for millions of Mac users, not to mention there are already threads where this is being discussed (http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=10.5.6+site%3Aforums.macrumors.com&as_qdr=w&btnG=Search). No need for a new thread.Yes there are threads discussing what happened to people's machines when they installed. There aren't any discussing why Apple would release this when it clearly wasn't ready. Millions also had their systems bricked. Read about that on the Net. Why are you such an apologist for Apple?

[Live Steam]

Well did you read the apple Support document Mac OS X 10.5: Software Update stops responding during "Configuring installation" (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2383)? Plus you can always re-download the 10.5.6 Combo Update (http://support.apple.com/downloads/Mac_OS_X_10_5_6_Combo_Update) and run it. A Combo Update usually fixes update screw ups.

That doc wasn't yet written when I did the update. I had no way of getting into the system to make any changes that would have helped. When was the last time an update trashed as many systems as this one apparently did?

[thomahawk]

are you one of those people who love to consistently complain about every little thing that apple does wrong? nobody is perfect you know, apple can make mistakes just like how microsoft makes mistakes

to me the update is just fine, there are still some bugs needed to be fixed but most of my gripes were solved

[GGJstudios]

Yes there are threads discussing what happened to people's machines when they installed. There aren't any discussing why Apple would release this when it clearly wasn't ready. Millions also had their systems bricked. Read about that on the Net. Why are you such an apologist for Apple?
I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.

[SpecOps2087]

I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.

Sadly, most people don't understand that :rolleyes:

[satcomer]

That doc wasn't yet written when I did the update. I had no way of getting into the system to make any changes that would have helped. When was the last time an update trashed as many systems as this one apparently did?

Then you just admitted to be an early software adopter. I always wait for a couple of days (once a point update comes out) to watch if a lot of Mac users have problems with it or I am waiting for a third party developer to update their application/plugin. By doing this along with a Combo Update I really never had any of the problem others on the web complain about.

I can't count the post of Mac users saying a point update is bad because their third party program/plugins (especially Internet Plug-Ins) broke. It like blaming Apple because a small hack/programers programing is badly written. It is like Apple MUST bow down to the posters plugin/ obsure program.

It is always smart to wait a few days after any point update to see if breaks third party programming (by reading complaints on the net) before updating.

[eXan]

Don't know what you're talking about :confused:

The update worked flawlessly on iMac G5 (via Software update) and MacBook (manual download combo-update).

[dukebound85]

all i know mine was bricked temporairly

[Ashka]

I've run all Apple updates on various Macs for every point version since 0SX 10.3.1. I have yet to have a problem caused by one.

Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.

MacBook Pro running OSX 10.5.6. without a problem.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The 10.5.6 update went fine on my MBP, but my upgraded PowerMac wasn't so lucky. Even though I did the update long after Apple acknowledged the problem, it STILL had the problem. Worst yet, it partially installed the update on the 2nd try and then said it could not install it (yeah it's a WTF moment). "About This Mac" now says I'm running 10.5.6 even though the Apple notify window said it couldn't install it. Is it installed? Is it partially installed? I do not know. But I do know when I tried to then download the Combo update, it gives a kernel panic EVER SINGLE TIME I try to open the DMG file so I would say, yes, something is screwed up.

I do have a backup of 10.5.5, but sadly I did a lot of photo scans and installed some new music, etc. after the last update so I'll have to move the directories over manually to the backup drive lest I lose them upon restoring the backup. Even then, I'm afraid I'll have missed something. This is the first time EVER that I've had a problem with a software update. Amazingly enough, my toaster just inexplicably died too while making toast for a hamburger while the Mac was rebooting. It just seems like one of those days....

[macrem]

I've run all Apple updates on various Macs for every point version since 0SX 10.3.1. I have yet to have a problem caused by one.

Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.

MacBook Pro running OSX 10.5.6. without a problem.
I'm guessing that is the problem in most cases, that or someone forgot to undo a hack they did to their system.

[Tosser]

I always wait for the combo update for a reason. if there is a problem, the combo update will most likely deal with it, and because it always comes later than the incremental update, by the time the combo is available, people will already have found some of the flaws.

However, I always make sure I can roll back, and the first I check is whether things I plug in and my work-specific software, well, works. If it doesn't I roll back. At one time all the way back to tiger.

Just out of curiosity, what do people consider hacks? Pith helmet? Other ad-blockers? Missing Sync? Soundbooth and Bridge CS4?


Third party software on the other hand has caused plenty of problems.

I'm guessing that is the problem in most cases, that or someone forgot to undo a hack they did to their system.

Are you people really arguing that one shouldn't install third party software in order to not get bummed when updating the OS? Do you really think that one should run with a virgin system and not do anything else with their Mac than what is offered by Apple?

[jnc]

So it is just the internet?


Just the internet?

JUST THE INTERNET?? :eek:

[PCMacUser]

This is the first time EVER that I've had a problem with a software update. Amazingly enough, my toaster just inexplicably died too while making toast for a hamburger while the Mac was rebooting. It just seems like one of those days....

I bought a toaster which in my opinion, would be the toaster Apple would brand their own (if they ever made toasters).

http://www.breville.com.au/ssl/cms/images_cms/DA0041.jpg

Single piece die cast exterior. No pull down lever to start the toasting - it's all electronic (buttons to start toasting on top). It slowly lowers the bread and slowly raises it when it's finished, with a 'beep'. No 'Pulp Fiction' popping moments.

Sorry, somewhat (but only slightly), off topic.

[motulist]

Just to keep things in perspective, lots and lots of us are upgrading without a hitch. My upgrade went perfectly on my G4 powerbook 1 ghz. I'm not downplaying how messed up it is that people are having failed upgrades though. Even a 1% failure rate (or whatever the rate is) for a routine upgrade is unacceptable. Routine upgrades should work 100% of the time on systems that aren't otherwise already damaged due to some other issue.

Still, I just want to make it clear that only a very small percent of people are having failed upgrades.

[Kilamite]

Just the internet?

JUST THE INTERNET?? :eek:

You said OS X 10.5.6 is really broken. If your internet isn't working properly, that doesn't really mean the rest of the system (i.e. running applications) is broke ;)

Did you post a topic asking for help?

[GGJstudios]

Are you people really arguing that one shouldn't install third party software in order to not get bummed when updating the OS? Do you really think that one should run with a virgin system and not do anything else with their Mac than what is offered by Apple?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.

[Tosser]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.

Like that. Although I don't consider Monolingual an "app" per se – more like a script that deletes system files.

I'd still say that Monolingual wasn't what Macrem and Ashka where thinking of.

[Live Steam]

I'd be very interested to see a reliable source that shows that "millions of systems were bricked". I'm not defending Apple. The update worked fine on the vast majority of systems. Just because a small fraction of users has problems, doesn't indicate that the update is the problem. If the update were faulty, everyone would have the problem. Troubleshooting 101.

No I'm not one to complain about much at all. However, just read the many Mac forums and you will find that it isn't just a few. I could equally ask you to post your data that shows the "vast majority" had no issues. I doubt anyone has this info as Apple would surely not release any data one way or the other. How many do you suppose have not update due to not knowing how to or even know that an update exists? How many more do you think would be adversely affected by the update?

Maybe you should visit your local Genius Bar to see how many machines are in for repair due to the update. This was a bad job by Apple. If you own a business and a measurable percentage were somehow compromised by your service, how long do you think you'd be in business?

[Live Steam]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that users should keep their Macs "virgin". But here's an example: I run Monolingual to remove extra languages from the apps on my MBP. It saves a lot of hard drive space. However, it causes the Microsoft Office updates not to install. I have to go through extra steps to install those updates, but I don't complain and I'm well aware that the reason is my choosing to use Monolingual, and I'm not naive and foolish enough to blame Microsoft or the update for this.

3rd party software is a fact of life in the computing industry. The developers of OS are certainly aware of this. Unless they release a new OS and state that certain apps will not work with the new OS, then they should be accountable for their design. Issuing an update that cripples a system is akin to distributing malware.

Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.

[Orion27]

3rd party software is a fact of life in the computing industry. The developers of OS are certainly aware of this. Unless they release a new OS and state that certain apps will not work with the new OS, then they should be accountable for their design. Issuing an update that cripples a system is akin to distributing malware.

Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.

If developers play by Apple Rules, there should be no problems. Third party developers are required to code to Apple Spec.

[GGJstudios]

Anything I had or have running on my system either comes from Apple directly, through recommendations from their site or are 3rd party apps that are issued by reputable software developers. It's unconscionable to release something that wasn't tested properly and ready for release to the general public. JMO of course. Opinions may vary.
It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around. Just because a vendor's apps are advertised on Apple's site is no guarantee that those programs are fully compatible with the most current Mac OS. As Apple states clearly on their site:
Apple is providing links to these applications as a courtesy, and makes no representations regarding the applications or any information related thereto. Any questions, complaints or claims regarding the applications must be directed to the appropriate software vendor.

[Casiotone]

Found my install disks! but i can't get them in :S... CD drive doesn't wanna open.

Hold down the mouse button (or trackpad button) while starting up your Mac, it's an old trick dating back to the original Mac 128k, it will eject any removable disks including CDs and DVDs.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

After restoring from my 10.5.5 backup drive (as mentioned above, the 'partial' 10.5.6 Apple Software Update messed up my machine as opening DMG files for one thing caused instant kernel panics), I reinstalled 10.5.6 using the combo update and all appears well now.

I read that 10.5.6 has some graphic/gaming improvements, so I decided to run Xbench again to compare (not the greatest tool overall, but OK for comparing against earlier results against itself within some constraints at least; it does seem to vary too much over several tests, IMO though).

Here's the overall results compared to 10.5.4 and 10.4.11 on a 1.8GHz G4 with 1.5GB of L2 latency ram and an ATI 9800 Pro and Sonnet SATA.

-CPU score is noticeably faster under 10.5.6 (84.3) than 10.5.4 (71.1), but still slightly lags Tiger (88.06). Good to see Leopard catching up, though.

-Thread test up slightly in 10.5.6 (65.8) versus 10.5.4 (62.5) but still lags Tiger significantly (79.7)

-Memory test is up in 10.5.6 (39.1) versus 10.5.4 (36.9) which was already slightly faster than Tiger (36.1)

-Quartz graphics is down (89.5) versus 10.5.4 (93.6) but still higher than Tiger's (85.2). Text rendering took the biggest hit in 10.5.6, dropping from 256 in 10.5.4 to 152 in 10.5.6! That is still faster than Tiger's 128 score, though. Still, I wonder what happened there as it's almost half 10.5.4's score (unless Xbench is that unstable?) Edit: I would say it's Xbench alright. Retests gave text scores anywhere from 100 to 350!

-OpenGL tests are higher in 10.5.6 (79.6) versus 10.5.4 (73.0) but still pale next to Tiger's score (90.9)

-User Interface Test is down in 10.5.6 (48.5) from 10.5.4 (50.6) and (83.1) in Tiger. It's sad to see that Leopard still lags in this area quite a lot from Tiger. The 9800 Pro has full Core Video and Core 3D support in Leopard so it's not that.

-The disk test seems to vary a lot from test to test so I don't want to jump to really big conclusions, but I do find it interesting where the changes are at. Overall, 10.5.6 scored lower (68.3) than 10.5.4 (75.4), but similar to Tiger (68.0). However, uncached write is nearly double of Tiger's score in 10.5.6 (88 versus 44.5) but 10.5.4 had a score of 115 there. OTOH, I've seen Tiger's disk score reach almost 100 before the last video card and USB card upgrades so there's some odd variances there).

Overall, 10.5.6 gained some significant ground over 10.5.4 (CPU, Memory, Thread, OpenGL), but also lost some minor ground in other areas (Quartz, User Interface and Disk with a huge possible loss in text rendering, although still better than Tiger (again I reiterate Xbench isn't that great of a consistent testing tool, but then what else is there?).

Overall scores were better for 10.5.6 (62.7) versus 10.5.4 (61.1) but still lagged Tiger (69.2).

Hopefully, Leopard will continue to be tweaked. With the rumor that Snow Leopard will dump PPC support, I'm hoping they can at least get Leopard up to Tiger speeds before they're done with it. The differences are small enough now and the bugs addressed well enough, though that I feel I could use Leopard on my PPC machine on a daily basis except that I also lose Classic mode. I do not use many classic apps these days, but it's nice to have available and a bit of a shame they could not have carried it over as an optional install for PPC machines as it's the main reason I still run Tiger (the only app I have that is Leopard only is Handbrake and I tend to run it on my MBP for the speed differences anyway).

Edit:

I ran XBench again under 10.5.6 and to give you an idea of how unreliable Xbench is here are some notable differences just between one test to the next (first number is 2nd test). I'm only posting significant differences; others were very similar numbers:

Overall: 63.0 versus 62.7

Cpu: 91.6 versus 84.3
Quartz: 93.2 versus 89.5
Disk: 65.1 versus 68.3

A 3rd test (shutting down background tasks I normally run) erased 10.5.4 differences in several areas where earlier tests indicated a loss so I'm guessing 10.5.6 differences are not very significant or at least untestable using Xbench in these areas for reliable differences:

Overall: 63.2 versus 61.1

Quartz: 94.2 versus 93.6 in 10.5.4 (passed it where it lost before)
User Interface: 49.9 versus 50.6 (closer than before)

I've also found the "100" defaults a bit odd compared to actual system tests. For example, my disk scores are often as high as 150 on the uncached 256k test yet as low as 20 on the uncached 4k write test. That's a huge difference in performance compared to a 100/100 norm. Maybe it's the hard drive?

Overall, I think the most surprising aspect was when I ran Xbench on my MBP I just bought in October (the pre-uni-body model with a matte screen and two 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo CPUs and 2GB of ram). For all the talk about how much faster the Intel Macs are compared to PowerPC ones, let alone G4 PowerPC models, I was surprised to find that the overall score was only about 2x faster than my upgraded PowerMac. User Interface was the biggest difference at about 6x faster. OpenGL was a mere 2x faster. The CPU score for having 2 cores and being Intel 2.4GHz was only 2x faster than my 7448 single core 1.8GHz G4. The thread test was 5-6x faster, though so clearly the core differences showed up there. Disk tests were noticeably slower than my PowerMac (5600rpm laptop drive versus my full size 7800 rpm drive), but still, that's pretty good for a machine originally from the turn of the century, IMO. Overall, the enhanced PowerMac isn't too shabby for such an old machine. If I had gotten the dual CPU model, I think it would closed the gap on the 6x scores to also only 2-3x faster maximum, which for being originally nearly 8 years old, isn't the night and day differences I would have expected. The machine clearly has plenty of life left in it for every day applications. I would imagine Mac Pro 4-core G5s would be VERY close to current Mac Pros, let alone iMacs, etc. It's a shame Snow Leopard wants to ditch them so hastily.

[Kar98]

are you one of those people who love to consistently complain about every little thing that apple does wrong? nobody is perfect you know, apple can make mistakes just like how microsoft makes mistakes

Yeah, but only Apple acts like their **** don't stink.

[AidenShaw]

I bought a toaster which in my opinion, would be the toaster Apple would brand their own (if they ever made toasters).

http://www.breville.com.au/ssl/cms/images_cms/DA0041.jpg

Single piece die cast exterior. No pull down lever to start the toasting - it's all electronic (buttons to start toasting on top). It slowly lowers the bread and slowly raises it when it's finished, with a 'beep'. No 'Pulp Fiction' popping moments.

Sorry, somewhat (but only slightly), off topic.

Do you have a link for that toaster - I can't read the logo and my Vista 64 system needs one....

(Last bit in jest - seriously I'd like some info on the toaster - I hate the one that my husband recently bought.)

[AidenShaw]

It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around.

That attitude is why Windows is around 90% market share, and Apple is under 10% share.

The operating systems should remain compatible, unless there's clearly a benefit to the end user to justify an incompatibility.

As an example - one of my most frequently used tools is TeraTerm, a telnet/serial port terminal app for windows (XP's telnet client sucks).

The latest version that I have was built in March 1998 - but it installs and runs without problems on my 64-bit Vista systems. Some of the DLLs were built in August 1996.

Anyone who claims that "It's the responsibility of software vendors to make sure their programs are compatible with the most current releases of operating systems, not the other way around." is rather clueless about how to attract developers, developers, developers to the platform.

If you want market share, you make sure that 10 year old programs continue to work. If you don't care about market share, then you don't care if 10 month old programs stop working.

[GGJstudios]

Anyone who claims that "...." is rather clueless about how to attract developers, developers, developers to the platform.

If you want market share, you make sure that 10 year old programs continue to work. If you don't care about market share, then you don't care if 10 month old programs stop working.
If you're a startup operating system, trying to get established, maybe. But if you think that operating system developers like Microsoft or Apple let the 3rd party applications "tail" wag the OS "dog", then you are the one who's clueless!

No OS would ever be released or upgraded if it had to ensure compatibility with the tens of thousands of apps that run on their platform. That is why you see some smaller apps cease development, because they don't have the resources to keep up with ongoing changes to the OS platforms, as evidenced by new releases of the apps following major changes in OS platforms. How many apps out there won't run on Mac OS X, but would run on earlier versions? The same goes for Windows.

Instead, you'll find the major 3rd party developers, like Adobe and others, getting a "heads up" about new releases, so they can adjust accordingly. The less significant app developers are always playing catch-up to make sure their apps continue to run on newer releases of the OS platforms.

Spend a few decades around the computer industry (with your eyes open) and you'll see this is true.

[Eidorian]

I waited for a few days on this update since I didn't have my MacBook around. I didn't have a problem with the 190 MB update luckily.

[AidenShaw]

But if you think that operating system developers like Microsoft or Apple let the 3rd party applications "tail" wag the OS "dog", then you are the one who's clueless!

Sorry, but if you put "Microsoft" and "Apple" together in this argument, then you are truly the clueless one.

I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".

Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)

If it isn't a "driver", I don't need to download the x64 version. Even if the application does contain a driver, almost always the single kit contains both x86 and x64 code - so it's transparent to the user.

And I can't wait for 10.6 to ship, and the problems show up with running PPC and x86 (32-bit) apps on the x64 10.6 kernel. Oh, and do you have a driver - sorry, that 10.5 driver is an x86 driver - can't be loaded.

[Stevamundo]

Thanks to 10.5.6 my computers crashed hard and they've been down all week!

I tried the combo update on my laptop too.

APPLE SHOULDN'T PUT OUT DEFECTIVE INSTALLERS.

[MagnusVonMagnum]

That attitude is why Windows is around 90% market share, and Apple is under 10% share.

The operating systems should remain compatible, unless there's clearly a benefit to the end user to justify an incompatibility.

As an example - one of my most frequently used tools is TeraTerm, a telnet/serial port terminal app for windows (XP's telnet client sucks).

The latest version that I have was built in March 1998 - but it installs and runs without problems on my 64-bit Vista systems. Some of the DLLs were built in August 1996.

I wouldn't go as far as to suggest that is the sole reason Apple is under 10% share given it ignores the market trends all the way back to 1995 and the causes thereof, but I would agree it is irresponsible of Apple to cause software to break. I too have software for my Windows computer dating back to 1999 and using Windows98. When I built my new PC a year ago, I installed WindowsXP and ALL and I mean ALL my software from 1998 onward to today works in WindowsXP.

SOME of the Mac software I have here from 1999 works on the upgraded PowerMac I'm using, but only in Tiger with Classic running. None of that early software functions in Leopard on this computer or on my brand new MBP period. Many apps from the Tiger era even had problems in Leopard. Leopard proved early on it was slower and less stable than Tiger. Some of the speed losses have been reversed by 10.5.6, but not all. Stability does seem much improved, at least. But I believe it was irresponsible for Apple to release Leopard before it was ready. We should have seen 10.5.0 about 6 months ago (one year after it was actually released) and a SLEW of problems could/would have been avoided. There was nothing wrong with Tiger that it couldn't have continued on another year. In fact, it would have received some nice updates if it had and I might have better Bluetooth features, etc. in Tiger today (Apple simply stopped all updates to Tiger save security ones including camera support, etc. Microsoft continues updates to a Windows operating system several years after the new operating system is introduced. They don't just abandon it overnight like Apple does. Apple COULD have included Classic support in Leopard for PPC users, but once again, it chose to break all prior software compatibility. For a platform with so little software to begin with compared to Windows, it seems unconscionable to me, but then that's Steve for you.

On the other hand, most software for Linux breaks after revisions to the operating system as well. The only major difference is that it's mostly open source and so you can just recompile and everything is usually well again and if not, someone will usually fix it if there's any interest in that program. The same cannot be said for things like GAMES and games are the primary form of software that cannot and will not be supported by Mac OS. It's unreasonable to expect software companies to bother to update games that are no longer selling for an operating system (hence the term Abandonware) and it's unfortunate that such software isn't made open source so others CAN fix it, but that's not how the world works and so most Mac games don't work on newer Mac operating system versions.

Of course, most responses in this thread will be by fanboys and they will tell you that Apple MUST do what it MUST to continue to make OS X the best operating system in the whole wide Universe!!! Most of those people, though are clueless fanatics and hence the term fanboy. Microsoft, the kludge of operating systems that it is does a pretty good job of maintaining backwards compatibility. While problems do surface between hardware, etc., given how MUCH hardware it supports, it's still a pretty good job all in all considering. If Windows only had to support the handful of hardware variations that Apple supports, it would be darn near problem free as well. But that's the difference between 90+% and 8-9% of the consumer market.

I use OS X precisely because it's a small market and uses Unix type cores. This makes it stable and highly unlikely to be attacked by malware and viruses (the combination thereof). Thus, it's the machine I want to use when shopping or banking online or to drive a 24/7 house audio/video system and that sort of thing. That it's more friendly to use 'most' of the time than Windows doesn't hurt either. But it also means I keep a Windows machine around as well for gaming and software you cannot get for the Mac. Yes, I could install Windows on my MBP and have both on one machine but then I might open the Mac side up to potential issues as well and I'd have to start virus scanning (takes FOREVER these days given the large hard drive sizes, etc.) on the laptop and I'd rather not, really.

[GGJstudios]

I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".

Of course if you're on an alpha or beta program, the purpose is to report flaws, but that's not the role of the average user.

Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.
That doesn't mean they make it a priority to ensure that every Windows app runs successfully on each updated release of Windows. That's the responsibility of the app developers.

I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)
If you're in a software alpha program, you're obviously not an average user. Unless you've had your head in the sand since Vista came out, you should know very well the monumental problems caused by that fiasco. Even neophytes know that Vista was a disastrous release.

If you Google "doesn't run on Vista" or "not supported on Vista" or many other such terms, you'll find a flood of links showing the flaws in that system. The fact remains that, while an OS developer may make efforts to minimize the impact of new releases and to coordinate with app developers, at the end of the day, they release updates that cause problems for some 3rd party apps. It's then the responsibility of the 3rd party developer to make sure they get "in step" with the current OS.

[Undecided]

I just did the update and it worked fine for me.

[Orion27]

Sorry, but if you put "Microsoft" and "Apple" together in this argument, then you are truly the clueless one.

I'm part of the Windows 7 alpha program - and the foremost rule is "if anything that works on Vista doesn't work on Windows 7 - tell us ASAP".

Microsoft considers it a top priority to make sure that non-privileged 32-bit images built 10 years ago run on their latest 32-bit and 64-bit operating systems.

I use Vista x64 every day on my desktop and laptop, and everything that I install "just works". (Actually, that's not completely true. Some 16-bit Win3.1 and DOS programs from the 80's don't work.)

If it isn't a "driver", I don't need to download the x64 version. Even if the application does contain a driver, almost always the single kit contains both x86 and x64 code - so it's transparent to the user.

And I can't wait for 10.6 to ship, and the problems show up with running PPC and x86 (32-bit) apps on the x64 10.6 kernel. Oh, and do you have a driver - sorry, that 10.5 driver is an x86 driver - can't be loaded.

I'm sorry but your BS is too much to bare. Certainly, as OS's move forward there are bound to conflicts with developers. I run both legacy PPC Macs and Intel Macs, with full suites of Adobe, Macromedia, MS Office, and Open Source, not too mention cross platform support for latest camera raw processing and HD Video. I sit between platforms on a daily basis. To here you defend Vista Capable is laughable. Not only is the Vista OS a failure, as a System 7 developer I hope your efforts this time around cause less legacy apps incompatibility than Vista does. And lets not get into the issue of Vista Capable machines sold, under pressure from Microsoft, which must run crippled versions of Vista because they do have the power to run Vista. OS X runs fully and completely on my early 2000 PPC's. And lets talk about scalability. Seen any Windows Vista Phones? OS X is on the iPhone. And by the way, I run XP Professional on my Mac Laptop. And I sure it will run your obscure 10 year old terminal app as well. And another aside, you said as a System 7 developer you were told "if it doesn't run an app that runs on Vista, let us know immediately." I would have to caution, thats a pretty low threshhold.

[SeanMcg]

but apparently Apple has released a newer version of the update as of 12/21/08, with the original having been posted on the 15th. This only applies to the client, point update, not the combo update or either server version.

I ran Software Update yesterday on my MBP. I had an odd error on saying "Directory does not exist" and the SU didn't work.

Opened up Terminal, ran SSH to login as the local admin, then ran sudo softwareupdate -i -a. That worked.

After the reboot, my MBP was snappier than ever.

I ran Software Update on my iMac G5 without any problems.

[Live Steam]

I'm sorry but your BS is too much to bare. Certainly, as OS's move forward there are bound to conflicts with developers. I run both legacy PPC Macs and Intel Macs, with full suites of Adobe, Macromedia, MS Office, and Open Source, not too mention cross platform support for latest camera raw processing and HD Video. I sit between platforms on a daily basis. To here you defend Vista Capable is laughable. Not only is the Vista OS a failure, as a System 7 developer I hope your efforts this time around cause less legacy apps incompatibility than Vista does. And lets not get into the issue of Vista Capable machines sold, under pressure from Microsoft, which must run crippled versions of Vista because they do have the power to run Vista. OS X runs fully and completely on my early 2000 PPC's. And lets talk about scalability. Seen any Windows Vista Phones? OS X is on the iPhone. And by the way, I run XP Professional on my Mac Laptop. And I sure it will run your obscure 10 year old terminal app as well. And another aside, you said as a System 7 developer you were told "if it doesn't run an app that runs on Vista, let us know immediately." I would have to caution, thats a pretty low threshhold.

Aiden is 100% correct in her assessment. I am far from being the biggest Windows fan, I switched last year because I was tired of the security issues. That said, in all of the hundreds of updates initiated by MS, my system was never once compromised in any for or fashion. Not once. I repeat, not once. Therein lays my difficulty in accepting the idea that a major OS player such as Apple could issue updates that equate to malware for many, many users. That is just not acceptable. Sorry. I'm not moving back to Windows because of this, but they need to take a hard look at how they implement software updates.

Oh, by the way, Vista was a 100% completely different OS from XP. They informed people that there could be conflicts with software prior to issuing it. Not only that, but the upgrade didn't brick users systems, should they have chosen to employ it.

[Orion27]

Aiden is 100% correct in her assessment. I am far from being the biggest Windows fan, I switched last year because I was tired of the security issues. That said, in all of the hundreds of updates initiated by MS, my system was never once compromised in any for or fashion. Not once. I repeat, not once. Therein lays my difficulty in accepting the idea that a major OS player such as Apple could issue updates that equate to malware for many, many users. That is just not acceptable. Sorry. I'm not moving back to Windows because of this, but they need to take a hard look at how they implement software updates.

Oh, by the way, Vista was a 100% completely different OS from XP. They informed people that there could be conflicts with software prior to issuing it. Not only that, but the upgrade didn't brick users systems, should they have chosen to employ it.

Vista a 100% completely different OS from XP? Please, not only is your use of the term "brick" inaccurate, your knowledge of Vista and it's underpinnings discredits your posts. Spreading FUD is one thing, calculated distortion and misinformation another.

[Live Steam]

Vista a 100% completely different OS from XP? Please, not only is your use of the term "brick" inaccurate, your knowledge of Vista and it's underpinnings discredits your posts. Spreading FUD is one thing, calculated distortion and misinformation another.

I am obviously not a programmer, however, even with my rudimentary knowledge of this subject, XP and Vista are significantly different in their core design.

Again, this is aside from the subject. MS never, ever issued an update that prevented me from booting or accessing my system. I was able to fix this on my own, but the majority of "PC" users do not have that ability. In essence, they issued malware for a good portion of their customers. Just look at the OS X forum on any site and you will see how many issues people have. We also, as users, don't know what issues will continue to crop up. I seem to be having trouble with my Logitech cordless mouse that I didn't encounter before.

[Undecided]

MS never, ever issued an update that prevented me from booting or accessing my system.

Maybe not you, but it has happened to others.

Google search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=9xW&q=windows+update+boot+fail&btnG=Search)

I've never had an update from Apple fail me.

But the bottom line is that computers suck. They're complicated and unreliable. To me, Macs are *better* but far from *perfect*. Seriously, I work on a XP PC all day, and I want to blow my brains by the end. Spotlight alone is compelling enough to use a Mac instead of a PC.

[GGJstudios]

I am obviously not a programmer, ...
Trust me, you didn't need to say that...... it's quite obvious! :rolleyes:

[ronk]

so..i updated the mac software; however, after the update, my browsers (safari&firefox) are not working properly. i go to my email and it will hang. i also visited some of my friends blog and when i clicked on a link, the browsers will just stop working. anyone else experiencing this?
if not, anyone can offer a suggestion on how i can fix this?? please?
thanks in advance.:o

[Orion27]

so..i updated the mac software; however, after the update, my browsers (safari&firefox) are not working properly. i go to my email and it will hang. i also visited some of my friends blog and when i clicked on a link, the browsers will just stop working. anyone else experiencing this?
if not, anyone can offer a suggestion on how i can fix this?? please?
thanks in advance.:o
Next time you post give us details of your internet connection. Sounds like you're just not connected to your WiFi. Try rebooting both your machine, modem if you have one and router as well. This should solve your problem.
Get back to us with your success story.

[ronk]

Next time you post give us details of your internet connection. Sounds like you're just not connected to your WiFi. Try rebooting both your machine, modem if you have one and router as well. This should solve your problem.
Get back to us with your success story.
Hi, sorry...
uhm..well...i have cable [ i believe ] for my internet connection, it comes with the house. i am connected to my wiFi and I turned it off and on again and it still did not work. I also did the whole router reboot and it still did not change a thing. Another thing I tried was to delete Firefox and reinstall it, and vice versa with Safari. Firefox still screws with me. As for Safari, it did let me go on the blogs without hanging, but when I hit up Gmail, it hanged again.

[Orion27]

Hi, sorry...
uhm..well...i have cable [ i believe ] for my internet connection, it comes with the house. i am connected to my wiFi and I turned it off and on again and it still did not work. I also did the whole router reboot and it still did not change a thing. Another thing I tried was to delete Firefox and reinstall it, and vice versa with Safari. Firefox still screws with me. As for Safari, it did let me go on the blogs without hanging, but when I hit up Gmail, it hanged again.
Are you sure email is just syncing? Sometimes IMAP servers take a little time to update. Are you getting your mail through Apple Mail?