Apple Popularizing

[Azoblue]

Does apple really want to become this ginormously powerful corporation many people think they should become? Consider why they aren't already as large or larger than it's nemeses; they have the innovation and the resources necessary to exceed Microsoft technologically (they have shown it time and time again), not to mention the strength and stability behind programming and it's OSs. Apple chooses to be smaller.

And that's exactly it. Hypothetically, if Apple were to become as large and powerful as Microsoft, they would inevitably lose the control over the quality of their products. More products in less time, equates to such a conundrum.

Furthermore, with the increased number of users, viruses and things of the sort will become as big of an issue as it is now with PC's. Thus virtually eliminating the aura that surrounds Apple. Quality. Stability. Stigma. Apple has lots to lose.

In my opinion, I think Apple is succeeding, despite their 3 percent market share.

Refute me if you may, but be prepared to support your argument.

[masterjedi73]

Most people are just afraid to switch...they believe the rumors that there isn't enough a mac can do.

...if only they knew.

I think I've convinced a co-worker to switch though. He's sick of all the viruses he gets hit with even with his virus software.

[Dont Hurt Me]

so this means that since Forbes issued a statement today that marketshare had gone to 1.7% Apple should be thrilled? 1st time it went below 2%. I think you are mistaken and this is one reason why business isnt using Xserves the other was G4. with a tiny fraction of the market Apple is not even a afterthought for these corporations or for 90% of the consumer base. Right now Apple only has 2 great products pods and dual G5 pro towers. everything else is getting its butt handed to it by cheaper and faster machines that can run software from Walmart plus you dont have to buy crap you dont want.

[Dale Sorel]

Is Apple popular? Who cares...Porsche and BMW are still making money ;)

[Azoblue]

Dale's comment is disturbingly relevant.

I dont think Apple's goal is to be the MAJOR label everyone needs. DHM - you're missing the point, IMHO. They don't need to be in the thought process of 90% of the market. 10% is plenty.

Perhaps Apple really IS striving for market dominance, but it would be unfortunate for the mac users now.

I disagree. The PowerBook line (although due for a revision in my opinion), by virtue of being a mac OS, is superior in many ways to it's so-called "cheaper and faster machines that can run software from Walmart".

If you are referring to the pre-installed software for "buying crap you don't want", you're not actually buying it. And even so, why wouldn't you want iPhoto, iTunes or GarageBand?

[janey]

i found a great sig (sorry i dont remember whose sig it was :p ) from a MacRumors member that stated that the day Apple has a majority market share is the day he switches to PC...i so agree with that statement...but i'm already using PCs :p

If Apple ever beats MS, Apple will become the next MS.
There's a sizable Apple community in Los Angeles though, so its awesome :D
And even 1% is a large amount. Think about it. Apple's real market share is around 5% (generously), out of every 100 people, 5 are Maccies. Thats not bad lol.

[Frohickey]

I don't think Apple has growth as the #1 priority at all. I don't see it that way here. If anything, Apple's priority is in ease-of-use and technological excellence. Makes it like the nerd's choice of computer, if you happen to be the nerd making the computer.

But with this ease-of-use and technological excellence done within Apple, it takes the tinkering task away from the consumer nerd that wants to tinker with their computer. Contrast this with the Wintel world, where they just wnat to get something out the door fast, half-baked or not. This gives plenty of opportunity for the consumer nerd to be wallowing in tinkering-heaven.

So, you have the consumer nerd whose hobby is computers that end up being asked by their peers to what to get. They say get a Wintel computer, and the ignorant non-nerd happilly buys a Wintel computer. Fast forward a few decades, and this is where we are at.

[takao]

Originally posted by übergeek
And even 1% is a large amount. Think about it. Apple's real market share is around 5% (generously), out of every 100 people, 5 are Maccies. Thats not bad lol.

5% is perhaps true for "the biggest country _eva_: usa"
but with 37.000 sold units in germany in the year 2003 (and 23.000 in the year 2002...but the record was 39.000 the year the original imac was introduced)
how many units sold apple in the us ?
if a computer manufacturer sells 130.000 how would you call that ?

argh and stop comparing BMW-Apple: BMW is car manufacturer number 3 behind VW (big leader) and Mercedes, with 9-11 percent marketshare

[Savage Henry]

Originally posted by übergeek

If Apple ever beats MS, Apple will become the next MS.

Exactly. But I do think there is potential for their share will increase when MS release Longdrawn.

For a hacker to break a brand new mass released Microsoft OS it would be such a notch for them [not advocating the activity, just pointing out]. The natural evolution that is 'virus' is that they get stronger and more sophisticated time. And I'm sure that when they start happening to Longyawn there will be plenty of smart people who think enough is enough. Sure, we won't be seeing the sort of market share from the the early days, but it should be a little more dignified.

[Azoblue]

so we all agree. Let's hold hands now.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Perhaps by next year they will be at that 1% ubergeek is talking about and everyone can jump up and down for joy! I just dont see dwindling marketshare to be a good thing for us Mac users nor for Apple. will this mean they will charge 3 times what a g4 is worth to make up for it? i would say yes since they charge twice what its worth now. Those Fast Pcs are looking more attractive everyday.

[Azoblue]

by all means...

[rdowns]

Market share is simply one measure. While declining market share sucks, Apple isn't interested in growing it (more later). Let's say the market for all computers was 1,000 last year and Apple had 2.5%, so they sold 25 computers. The market for all computers this year is 1,500 and Apple sold 1.7% or about 28. They sold more but had a lower market share.

Installed base is another measure. Apple here is at anything between 7-12% from what I've read. Macs last longer than PCs.

As for growing market share, I don't think Apple is very interested in doing this. They do nothing to promote the benefits of the Mac, its OS, its ease of use, lower TCO etc. They release the G5 and run that anemic, "world's fasted computer" ad ad nauseum. BFD, most who saw it probably said, "big deal, you can't connect to the Internet with it or there's no software to run on it" (or any of the many falsehoods about the Mac out there)

I would love to see Apple run ads showing families using a Mac and using Office (mom and dad bring work home and it just works), iPhoto, iTunes etc. We have all this great software that comes with Macs and no one knows about it.

The iPod proves people will buy a more expensive product if its better than others. Why can't they even try this with their flagship product?

Distribution is another achilies heal. If peopel can't touch, see and try Macs, they aren't going to buy them. Macs aren't where the bulk of people buy their PCs. (Circuit City, Best Buy etc.)

Apple's marketing seems to be how we can continue to gouge our fiercely loyal base and protect our higher margin products against the ones that could sell millions.

rant over

[Dont Hurt Me]

nice rant and thats about right.

[dukemeiser]

Obviously Apple would like a little bit bigger market share. But I don't see them pushing that. Why does Dell have a big market share? Because they advertise. A lot. Dell PCs aren't any better than other companies' PCs, Dell just markets the hell out of theirs. You can't sit down and watch TV without seeing a Dell commercial.
But Apple? I've probably seen 10 Apple commercials on TV in my lifetime. Apple doesn't advertise very much at all IMO. They could at least squash some myths about Macs in their commercials (limited software, professionals only, etc.). But no, Apple doesn't do that.
Why was the original iMac so popular? Advertising. 5 of those 10 commercials I've seen were for the original iMac. And it worked, because my family bought one for our first computer 4 years ago.

[whocares]

Apple is a business and thus is primary goal is to make money.

If they can make money with 1% market share that's great. Increasing market share may not equal increasing profit... And advertising Dell style costs a ****** load of money.

[MrMacMan]

Ah what I don't get is the ignorance of PC users.

We have a mac Lab (always a free computer) and a Pc Lab (never a free computer).

We have people waiting in the Pc lab everyday waiting for a machine for something they have on a floppy...

Basically a conversation goes like this.
Person A: Why are you waiting here?
Person B: Need to print something out.
Person A: Why not use the Mac Lab?
Person B: I saved this on a PC.
Person A: Oh, okay.

Now normally the ignorance is left be, but I overhear this all the time.
Me: Um... if you saved it at home using word, most likely its gonna open on a mac.
Person B: Was I talking to you?
Me: Just wanted to save you time...
Person B: Yeah thanks.

:rolleyes:




I agree, if apple has .001% market share but makes money I will be happy.

If apple has 50% market share and doesn't make a profit, I'm not as happy.

I still would like more apple market share tho.

[whocares]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Now normally the ignorance is left be, but I overhear this all the time.
Me: Um... if you saved it at home using word, most likely its gonna open on a mac.
Person B: Was I talking to you?
Me: Just wanted to save you time...
Person B: Yeah thanks.

I "enjoy" watching people in the comp. lab of my department. People waiting for a free PC:
Person A: Damn no more comps left. Oh wait, I'll use the Mac
Person B: you don't wanna use that, you can't do anything with it!

Why is it people have to put other people off using them too? :rolleyes:

One good thing about an increase in Apple market share is perception of other people. They might just realize that the Mac is just as good (hmm, better ;) ) than the next computer...

[ChrisH3677]

As rdowns said, marketshare is so misleading.

The fallacies are...

1) Total market may be 1million computers this year and only 900,000 next year. So if they sold 10,000 computers each year, then the first year their market share is 1% but the next it is 1.1% So by doing nothing, they increase it!

2) At the same time, they might for instance, lose 5% of their installed base, yet that's not reflected in marketshare.

Steve said something like 43% of Macs now run OSX. What happened to the other 57%? In all likelihood, a lot of them prob can't upgrade. This means there's truckloads of old macs still doing the job. Unlike PCs which have a usable life getting nearer and nearer to 2 years. Which can also explain slipping marketshare - i.e. PC users are upgrading more often.

These sorts of issues are why marketshare is so misleading.

I think Apple's first concern is maintaining their installed base.

And their switch campaign indicates they are keen on increasing that base but they don't seem to have any interest in the corporate desktop.

[abhishekit]

I feel, as others also pointed out, the share is low because of the marketing, or the lack of it.
I mean, an average person never even in dreams, thinks that he even has a choice between pc and mac. Leave alone the benefits of os x and iapps, he just feels that macs are not for him.
I had never even seen a mac closely when I bought my first mac, which was the first comp I bought with my money. But still I always followed macs, so I knew it was a gr8 choice. but an average home user who doesnt spend his time reading about gadgets would never know that macs are perfect for him...
And actually the macs are not that costly anymore. My roommate bought a centrino m for 1600. Now after seeing my mac, he wishes he had bought a pb on edu discount instead..
So if Apple can just do some marketing..
Anyways I do my share :D , my roommate is gonna buy a pb next, and my two other freinds are also gonna switch..

[takao]

Originally posted by ChrisH3677

Steve said something like 43% of Macs now run OSX. What happened to the other 57%? In all likelihood, a lot of them prob can't upgrade. This means there's truckloads of old macs still doing the job. Unlike PCs which have a usable life getting nearer and nearer to 2 years. Which can also explain slipping marketshare - i.e. PC users are upgrading more often.

43% is a lot ...
many pc users are happy with their slow windows 98 pentium 200mhz

my aunt upgraded from a 386 33mhz windows 3.1 to a pentium 4 2ghz last year with xp
i've got an pentium 133 here in the flat used as a server/router,a pentium 166 with 20 gb HD at home as a music server (got both computers for free) and 486 which still get used for old games
zero problems with fans..all working like charm, i still know many people using pentium 3s-Pentium 1s so what's the point ?

PC enthusiasts are upgrading every 2-3 years
Mac enthusiasts are upgrading every 2-3 years

if you look at other threads like 'how many macs did you have owned' etc. you will see that the "PC users upgrade more often" thing is a myth....
some will upgrade at insane rate like pro-gamers or rich kids but they are no majority how many companies are out there using NT 4.0 on Pentium 1s or even DOS?

[Applespider]

Originally posted by takao
43% is a lot ...
many pc users are happy with their slow windows 98 pentium 200mhz

i still know many people using pentium 3s-Pentium 1s so what's the point ?



I think it's enthusiasts who are able to keep their machines running that long. I had a PC which was coming up for years and still pretty much OK. But despite me applying appropriate patches, having the maintenance tasks run etc, one Norton update appeared to put it over the edge in terms of RAM not being enough and began showing BSOD several times a day and making v peculiar noises.

Now, yes, I could have opened up the case, checked all the connections, added some new RAM, reinstalled Windows, put all my programs/files back and I might have got a bit longer out of it. I bought a Powerbook instead :D

My mother's is 4 year old PII. She's like many of her friends (average users). She knows how to work the programs on her PC but she understands very little about why applying patches, keeping virus software etc up to date, what defragging is. There is no way that she would be comfortable with doing any of the things in para 2. She'll go out and buy a new PC (or an iMac if I have anything to say about it!)

[ChrisH3677]

takao - hey maybe you're right. maybe i was stretching that stat a bit. It would be interesting to know for sure. is any one aware of any studies into the upgrade patterns of PC and Mac users?

[agreenster]

Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I heard the car anaolgy.....

But thats only partly true. Apple isnt quite as luxury as porsche and BMW....Apple has a few hurdles yet before they are at that level.

First thing: speed. They arent as fast as PC's......yet. The G5 needs to mature a bit and they'll be there

Second: Service. Apple customer service lacks a bit, especially their repair department.

Last thing, this topic has been debated to death here at MacRumors (search for marketshare) and its widely agreed upon that Apple (and most of its user base) would be happy with a 6-10% marketshare.

[Mav451]

Originally posted by whocares
I "enjoy" watching people in the comp. lab of my department. People waiting for a free PC:
Person A: Damn no more comps left. Oh wait, I'll use the Mac
Person B: you don't wanna use that, you can't do anything with it!

Why is it people have to put other people off using them too? :rolleyes:

One good thing about an increase in Apple market share is perception of other people. They might just realize that the Mac is just as good (hmm, better ;) ) than the next computer...

While that is kinda of funny, it sadly is true. Until this semester, the entire "new" computer lab in the university's largest library consisted of Dells. Now, however, 14 out of about 30 computers are now 2.0 G5's! And the funny thing is that while I have seen some days where people are waiting and I tell them there's three Macs open (and they still refuse); there are other days that the 2.0G5's are all taken! Alot of these users are the same people with the iPods in pocket(earbuds on the whole time), Pshopping, or the random PC using student who feels like procrastinating (where's IE? Oh click the compass thing? Thanks).

[besson3c]

Originally posted by Azoblue

Furthermore, with the increased number of users, viruses and things of the sort will become as big of an issue as it is now with PC's. Thus virtually eliminating the aura that surrounds Apple. Quality. Stability. Stigma. Apple has lots to lose.



I agree with everything but this. On what basis do you claim this? It has been discussed countless times that the number of virii is not proportional to the market share.

[dukemeiser]

I would be happy when people actually consider a Mac as well as a PC in their purchases. But only the tech. savvy do that. The average user only knows about a PC. If Apple wants more average users, then they need to market a little bit more.

[xiliquiern]

Posting from the view of 'your moderately more learned PC user', Macs have a few problems that keep them out of the everyday household.
1) You can get a Dell that surfs the web, runs Word, Excel, and some games for about $500. Less if you build it yourself. If Macs offered a 2.5+ Ghz for less than $600, then they would certaintly have a larger market share.
2) People, when working on a Mac, don't want to explore, they want it all to be there right infront of them. Macs are very good for the things not right in front of you, for example, the average joe user just puts word, excel, and IE (which I HATE vehemently) on the destop. *clicky-clicky* Instant (sorta) internet. That's all most people use; the icons on the desktop.
3) Learning curve: Most people are just casual users...they would never be found on a forum like this. They were brought up on PC's and they like the comfort zone. They wouldn't know where to get third party software, how to update manually, etc. etc. (assuming they wanted to)

Personally, I find Macs to be incredible peices of hardware, that are wonderful for many tasks...I just don't have the money for one to match my PC. Also...incredible monitors are a plus.

[Mord]

i found a great sig (sorry i dont remember whose sig it was :p ) from a MacRumors member that stated that the day Apple has a majority market share is the day he switches to PC...i so agree with that statement...but i'm already using PCs :p

If Apple ever beats MS, Apple will become the next MS.
There's a sizable Apple community in Los Angeles though, so its awesome :D
And even 1% is a large amount. Think about it. Apple's real market share is around 5% (generously), out of every 100 people, 5 are Maccies. Thats not bad lol.

my sig probably lies i'd buy a macintosh 128k and sit in a cupbord all day remembering the good old days when i was cool for having a powerbook 100 :p

[jaw04005]

The problem with Apple having such a small portion of the market is that retail stores in smaller communities don't carry Mac software. I live in a small town, and we have 3 computer stores--none of which carry any Mac software at all. The nearest store with Mac software/Accessories is 60 miles away. Everyone I know brags about how "neat" or how "cool" my macs are but they are like "You can't even buy software for them here".

[jaw04005]

Posting from the view of 'your moderately more learned PC user', Macs have a few problems that keep them out of the everyday household.
1) You can get a Dell that surfs the web, runs Word, Excel, and some games for about $500. Less if you build it yourself. If Macs offered a 2.5+ Ghz for less than $600, then they would certaintly have a larger market share.
2) People, when working on a Mac, don't want to explore, they want it all to be there right infront of them. Macs are very good for the things not right in front of you, for example, the average joe user just puts word, excel, and IE (which I HATE vehemently) on the destop. *clicky-clicky* Instant (sorta) internet. That's all most people use; the icons on the desktop.
3) Learning curve: Most people are just casual users...they would never be found on a forum like this. They were brought up on PC's and they like the comfort zone. They wouldn't know where to get third party software, how to update manually, etc. etc. (assuming they wanted to) Personally, I find Macs to be incredible peices of hardware, that are wonderful for many tasks...I just don't have the money for one to match my PC. Also...incredible monitors are a plus.

I completely agree. I dunno if Apple releasing a sub $500 product would even help them now. They tried this once with releasing a $799 iMac then upped the price on them. So I dunno what the answer is. I bought an iMac for my grandparents, and my grandpa loves Sherlock and Safari and said the funniest thing the other day--"Apple seems to be the most innovative out of the bunch." hehe--go gramps!

[rdowns]

I would be happy when people actually consider a Mac as well as a PC in their purchases. But only the tech. savvy do that. The average user only knows about a PC. If Apple wants more average users, then they need to market a little bit more.

Not to mention that their computers need to be on the shelves of places where people buy PCs.

[jaw04005]

I don't understand Apple's marketing either. There commercials rarely mention anything about the product itself. Take the G5 commercial... yeah it was cool but did it say anything about the computer itself? I don't even remember if it said its price. Everytime I turn on the TV, there is a Dell commerical on.

[ftaok]

Posting from the view of 'your moderately more learned PC user', Macs have a few problems that keep them out of the everyday household.
1) You can get a Dell that surfs the web, runs Word, Excel, and some games for about $500. Less if you build it yourself. If Macs offered a 2.5+ Ghz for less than $600, then they would certaintly have a larger market share.
That $500 Dell that you're talking about is a 2.66ghz P4 with 128MB RAM. It has an integrated graphics card, so games won't run very well. Plus, you'll have to pony up $129 for Office Basic (doesn't include PowerPoint).

In the end, you're looking at $630 for an XP machine with not enough RAM. Plus it won't run games very well.

[Dale Sorel]

But thats only partly true. Apple isnt quite as luxury as porsche and BMW....Apple has a few hurdles yet before they are at that level.

I don't know...a neighbor of mine just recently bought a DVD player from BB for $30. It lasted a week before it wouldn't eject her DVD. She went back and paid $130 for a DVD/VCR combo box. The first player had a manual in at least two languages. The second player's manual was in english only. She said something about getting what you pay for, and when I compared her Acura Integra to a Chevy Malibu she got it.

[richland]

That $500 Dell that you're talking about is a 2.66ghz P4 with 128MB RAM. It has an integrated graphics card, so games won't run very well. Plus, you'll have to pony up $129 for Office Basic (doesn't include PowerPoint).

In the end, you're looking at $630 for an XP machine with not enough RAM. Plus it won't run games very well.

It comes with Productivity Pack including WordPerfect® and Money® so there would be no use to buy office for the average user.

[ftaok]

It comes with Productivity Pack including WordPerfect® and Money® so there would be no use to buy office for the average user.
I realize that. The original poster stated that you can get a $500 Dell that can surf the web, run Excel and Word, and some games. In reality, you need to add on the Office option to run Excel and Word. And you'll never be happy playing games on an XP machine with 128MB RAM and an integrated graphics card.

[JDOG_]

An earlier comment about the "Compass thing" reminds me how much I get simple pleasure of teaching people little things about Mac computers.

We've got a nice little section of about 25 17" 1.25Ghz. iMacs and nearly everyday I start doing some work on one of them I'll see somebody flustered by really simple things like figuring out how to make the drive bay open. Is there anything more gratifying than showing them the eject button (which was right by their hand) and having the bay come out so subtly?

I think Macs are gaining momentum, especially with the iPod being so hip and well-designed and the co-current drop of iBooks into the $1000 range for students...great move by Apple! Get the kiddies computers now so they'll keep buying the $2,000 ones when they're older. Good times.