Potential PC -> Mac converter here...Questions. Also, have issues w/ OSX? Pls share.

theNEOone · Dec 21, 2008

I'm currently searching for a new notebook and have a few on my list - the Macbook pro is currently on top. I'm a life-long Windows user and have been using Vista without any issues...happy user here.

I've played with the Macbook pro at the store...it's a great machine. A couple of things irk me, however...

1. Is there really no way to maximize windows w/ 1-click? In Windows, I can maximize a window to take up the entire screen. If I click the "+" icon on a Mac, it doesn't maximize the window....what's worse, if I'm in a browser, it sometimes shrinks the window to the width of the webpage...this drives me nuts. I realize websites have a bunch of unused white space, but if I want to maximize the screen, let me ***** maximize without having to manually resize.

2. In the short time I was playing with the computer, I wasn't able to figure out how to re-locate my docs, my music, etc. On my Vista machine, I have multiple hard drive partitions, with my documents located on a non-os partition. I can re-point Vista's default location of my docs/music/pics/contacts etc. to the partitioned drive. Can this be done on OSX?

3. There are things that I REALLY REALLY like about the MBP, but I'm hesitant to drop $2500 on a new computer to gain some cool new features, but lose some basic ones that I've grown accustomed to. What other things bother you about OSX?

4. I have an Xbox 360 that I LOOOVVVEEEE. I connect to my Vista PC occasionally to use Media Center and browse my media. Is there a way to do this w/ OSX, or will I have to boot-camp into my Vista installation.

5. I currently own an iPhone, and although it's the coolest phone I've ever used, I'm sometimes frustrated by how limited I am....there are many things I wish I could do on the phone that I simply can't. I've put up with it, however, because it's a phone. I can't make the same sacrifice with my computer.......will I have any limitations (from a vista user's perspective) if I make the switch?

Thanks for your thoughts.

=|

Nermal · Dec 21, 2008

1. The green + is "zoom", which as you discovered fits the window to its contents. Mac OS does not have a Maximise function, however I have seen a script for Safari that resizes the window to full screen. I don't have a link handy.

4. I believe that there's an app called Connect360 which can do this.

yoyo5280 · Dec 21, 2008

theNEOone said:
1. Is there really no way to maximize windows w/ 1-click? In Windows, I can maximize a window to take up the entire screen. If I click the "+" icon on a Mac, it doesn't maximize the window....what's worse, if I'm in a browser, it sometimes shrinks the window to the width of the webpage...this drives me nuts. I realize websites have a bunch of unused white space, but if I want to maximize the screen, let me ***** maximize without having to manually resize.

I hated this at first. But now I love it and when I use pcs at school I find my self un-maximizing them. I like the idea of having windows spread over the desktop like papers over a table top.[

It might be just me.

dimme · Dec 21, 2008

Let me try to ge you so answers
1 you will need a 3rd party utility and they some times cause conflicts. I know it's a nice feature of windows but I do not miss it on a mac

2 you can with so hacking but again it will cause problems down the road. For me in OS X I just use the full disk with one partition. OSS X files system is pretty stable and there is really no need to have a data partition.

3 I love OS X.

4 I do not know but I think you will need Vista and boot camp.

5 I use both mac and windows. OS X is my main computing system both at home and work, (I work in the graphics industry). Apple is a great company but they like to control everything which is why the user experience s soo good for most people. If you like to tinker with things you may be disappointed.

If you can borrow someones machine for a weekend it may help you better decide. Or spend a afternoon at a apple store.
Good Luck

dialed1 · Dec 21, 2008

1. I found that if you maximize the screen with the bottom stretch slider on the bottom right that next time you open it it will be the same size next time. Another thing that is very handy is the four finger gesture i find I use that alot to see what windows i have open and quickly find what i want.

4. I really love mine too connect 360 works fine to stream anything from itunes iphoto, basically any folder you point it too, I have a time machine with an external 1.5tb hard drive attached talk about wireless streaming city.

5. I haven't had any trouble switching over at all it JUST WORKS and works good man I couldn't be happier.

munkery · Dec 21, 2008

theNEOone said:
1. Is there really no way to maximize windows w/ 1-click? In Windows, I can maximize a window to take up the entire screen. If I click the "+" icon on a Mac, it doesn't maximize the window....what's worse, if I'm in a browser, it sometimes shrinks the window to the width of the webpage...this drives me nuts. I realize websites have a bunch of unused white space, but if I want to maximize the screen, let me ***** maximize without having to manually resize.

In Safari, resize the window to the size you want, then hit control (ctrl). This will set that window size to be the default window size of safari.

Once you get used to it, you will really like how Mac OS X handles app windows.

The General · Dec 21, 2008

theNEOone said:
2. In the short time I was playing with the computer, I wasn't able to figure out how to re-locate my docs, my music, etc. On my Vista machine, I have multiple hard drive partitions, with my documents located on a non-os partition. I can re-point Vista's default location of my docs/music/pics/contacts etc. to the partitioned drive. Can this be done on OSX?

You can have different partitions for documents, etc, but I hardly see the point. Just drop your documents in ~/Documents, put your music in iTunes, put your contacts in Addressbook, put your photos in iPhoto. There's no point to having separate partitions for those things. That makes no sense at all.

But if you want to use hardlinks or symlinks, you can repoint location to other volumes. I just don't see the point of any of what you just said.

theNEOone said:
3. There are things that I REALLY REALLY like about the MBP, but I'm hesitant to drop $2500 on a new computer to gain some cool new features, but lose some basic ones that I've grown accustomed to. What other things bother you about OSX?

Nothing bothers me about Mac OS X.

theNEOone said:
5. I currently own an iPhone, and although it's the coolest phone I've ever used, I'm sometimes frustrated by how limited I am....there are many things I wish I could do on the phone that I simply can't. I've put up with it, however, because it's a phone. I can't make the same sacrifice with my computer.......will I have any limitations (from a vista user's perspective) if I make the switch?

About the only things you'll be limited with is games and CAD software. Not because the OS is incapable of running such software, but because its just not available. Of course, you can always use Boot Camp and install Vista to do those things.

JustGretchen · Dec 21, 2008

1. I have never missed that about windows and got used to it really fast on the mac. it lets you better track what else is going on with your other open apps by being able to see them. If you would like to not see them or at lease diminish them, there are 3rd party apps that kinda gray out the screen behind the active window.

2. I don't quite understand the thinking behind what you do on vista, why would you want to have your things on a different drive, but you can really store things anywhere you'd like on a mac just like you can on a PC.

Also, the way OS X is built you can potentially copy your entire user folder to an external drive, plug that drive into another mac, and import your user account from that folder, and pick up working right where you were...then again, if you do a proper backup, like everyone should, it doesn't matter were you keep your stuff.

3. I haven't really found anything that "bothers" me about OS X in the last 5.5 years that I've been using it...but I have realized there's a LOT of things that bother me about Windows since I started using it.

4. Connect360 works flawlessly. I use it every day.

5. It truly depends on what types of things you do, what are those? What is some of the main software that you use? Are there softwares you have that you can ONLY use on windows?

If you give us an answer to that we can probably rest your [silly] fears

Take the plunge, you will not regret it.

Tallest Skil · Dec 21, 2008

1. It's not in the nature of OS X to do this. OS X is built from the ground up to be a multitasking OS. Thus, it's silly to waste screen space on a mostly empty web page or whatever you're doing. Try getting used to using multiple apps at once. You'll love the productivity boost.

3. What features are you losing? You're not losing anything, and if you say anything about a fingerprint reader, your argument will be rendered void.

4. Probably Boot Camp. I have no knowledge of this area.

5. Like... what? What can't you do with an iPhone besides copy/paste?

HLdan · Dec 21, 2008

Meh, I think the OP shouldn't bother buying a Macintosh, it's not worth his time. For the things he needs to do like certain "Windows Tricks" he'd be better suited staying on a physical PC. The Mac is not going to do those things you want without hacks or software and you seem happy with Vista so don't waste your time and money on an overpriced Apple computer that can't do half of the features of your Vista machine. Don't even waste your time using the Bootcamp feature. You won't be happy. You're not even happy at all right now and you just tested a Macintosh for a short time.
Again, don't waste your money on a Macintosh, stay on PC.

J the Ninja · Dec 21, 2008

1. This is something almost everyone seems to miss the first time they try OS X, then very quickly learn to live without. After a few weeks of OS X, you will wonder why on earth you ever wanted a button that makes one item dominate your entire screen. Including in Windows. It's just something you learn is kinda useless and even a hindrance when you're forced to compute without for a month.

5. My biggest gripe is Finder's strange behavior, for example, I have NO CLUE why it sometimes opens a spring-loaded folder in a new window, or moves the current window to the new folder. It's has it's own pros over Windows Explorer, like Quick Look, and Cover Flow (actually useful here, unlike iTunes. It's great for looking through your wallpaper collection, for example). Still, sometimes I just don't understand why it does some things.

6. The only limitations I've found is the lack of gaming support. Other than that, it's great. You'll forget how you lived without Expose and Spaces very quickly.

theNEOone · Dec 21, 2008

Thanks for the responses.

1. I'm glad to see that many agree that they first missed the issue of non-maximizable windows, but learned to love it. I'm hopeful that I'll get used to the new treatment, but it still perplexes the hell out of me that with such a strong window management system (spaces, expose, touchpad gestures) that Apple wouldn't even allow the option of easily maximizing windows. You would think that the fact that it has such great options for multitasking that having maximized windows would work great because it's so easy to switch between programs. I don't understand the point of not even having the option...

munkery - thanks for the trick on how to set the default screen size for safari. this will come in handy, should i take the plunge.

2. The reason I partition my drive in Windows is for two reasons: (1) It isolates my documents. If the OS ever fails, I can just take the HD and put it in an external enclosure and easily transfer the files to a new computer. Granted, this is just a residual of how I used to set up my PC under Windows 95 when things went wrong all the time. I haven't had to do this kind of recovery in years, but I still like the "safety" of knowing my files are separate from the OS partition. (2) I partition my drive so that my files are located on the outermost section of the HD. Because of radial velocity (term check?!?!), read/write speeds are faster the farther away from the center of the HD you get. The speed increase is negligible, but again, it was something I set up back in the day and have just continued the practice. I guess the biggest problem is that it kinda just ticks me off that I don't have the option to relocate my documents folder....whether it helps or not, why can't I put my documents where I want them to be?

3. I didn't see any complaints here.....anyone?

4. Connect 360...check. It looks like it'll do the trick for general media streaming, but it looks like I'll still lose the Media Center functionality. Can anyone confirm that I can still use media center if I bootcamp into Vista? What if I run Vista in Parallels? Will WMC work?

5. As far as what else I run on on Vista...I really can't think of anything that's critical, but I will miss little things...I use Chrome as my browser (just a matter of waiting until a Mac version is released) and there are a ton of misc apps that I use which I'll have to replace w/ a Mac version....not the end of the world, but just slightly annoying.

Tallest Skil - Limitations on the iPhone are plentiful....of course, I'd start out with things like no copy/paste, having to jump through hoops to get custom ring tones, and of course Apple's insistence of completely neutering bluetooth functionality on the phone, for no reason other than "just because." However, I would also include on my list of gripes the fact that I'm required to use the native mail app (instead of the google mail app that's available on other phones), the problem that I'm unable to delete built in apps (whether, stocks, etc) because I've replaced them with Apps from the App store, and the annoyance of not allowing a landscape keyboard in things like SMS, mail, etc. But I don't want to turn this into an iPhone bashing post....I just want to make sure that the control and limitations that Apple has placed on the iPhone haven't been duplicated on the MBP...I don't want to have to be told how Apple thinks I should be computing. OSX is great and they have some great solutions for common tasks, but I just want to make sure that they realize that their approach isn't the best for everyone, and allow some wiggle room for customization and personalization.

=|

HLdan · Dec 21, 2008

theNEOone said:
I don't want to have to be told how Apple thinks I should be computing. OSX is great and they have some great solutions for common tasks, but I just want to make sure that they realize that their approach isn't the best for everyone, and allow some wiggle room for customization and personalization.

=|

I'm going to say this once more because I think you ignored what I wrote. I don't think the Mac system is for you. You have too many Windows habits that you refuse to break.

I'll give you another feature on Windows you won't find on Mac OS X and that's Cut N Paste so if you're unhappy with your iPhone not having Copy N Paste you really won't be happy with the lack of Cut N Paste on the Mac.

Here's another feature of OS X (or lack thereof) you WILL complain about in the future. When you click the close button on programs in OS X the application does not quit like in Windows. You have to do a key combo or File-Quit in order to shut off the application.

Apple's Mac OS X system uses "Logic" which is why the apps don't quit with the close button or the browser windows don't maximize when you click the green button.

If you have to install Windows on a Mac to run Xbox features in Media Center then there's no point in using a Mac. There are tons more options for less money in the PC world. "You", yourself will not be happy on a Macintosh.
You say that Apple's approach in OS X isn't the best for everyone? You're right, it's not the best for "you". You're going about Apple's products like they should run like everyone else's products and that's just not logical.

petermcphee · Dec 21, 2008

Don't buy a mac if what you really want is a PC. It sounds like a PC is what you want, so why make yourself miserable with something that you don't want?

In my case, I wanted a Mac. So step 1 for me was to get one.

In your case, you want a PC. So step 1 for you is to buy a PC. Steps 2 through infinity are going to be trying to make it as awesome as a Mac.

Lone Deranger · Dec 21, 2008

It seems the computing habits of the OP have been shaped and set by many years of having to fight the shortcomings and pitfalls of the Windows platform.
And by his wording seems unwilling to let these habits go for fear of "losing" control and letting the OS "dictate" how he uses a computer.
I was once like that. Adamant on keeping my documents separate, managing my media manually.
I came to realize what a chore that was when I finally switched to a Mac and let OSX do many of these things for me. And what a relief and time saver it has been.
Also.. while there are things the OSX GUI might not let you do, doesn't mean they cannot be done. This is one of the biggest misconceptions about OSX.
The power and functionality of OSX' BSD/Unix command line and AppleScript give the experienced user all the under the hood access and control he/she could wish for.

theNEOone · Dec 22, 2008

HLdan said:
I'll give you another feature on Windows you won't find on Mac OS X and that's Cut N Paste so if you're unhappy with your iPhone not having Copy N Paste you really won't be happy with the lack of Cut N Paste on the Mac.

You're joking, right? You can't copy/paste on the Mac? Please tell me you aren't serious...

HLdan said:
Here's another feature of OS X (or lack thereof) you WILL complain about in the future. When you click the close button on programs in OS X the application does not quit like in Windows. You have to do a key combo or File-Quit in order to shut off the application.

Apple's Mac OS X system uses "Logic" which is why the apps don't quit with the close button or the browser windows don't maximize when you click the green button.

Well, I know about this "feature" because I've read about it......and I'll be OK with this. What I find amusing though, is that in some cases the X actually closes the program (Sys pref, iPhoto, etc). I'm not sure I'd call that "logic" - seems more like "inconsistency"....not huge, though. Windows has this same issue for some programs, just backwards....where hitting X doesn't actually close the program, but instead minimizes it to the notification area....Microsoft Communicator, anybody?

HLdan said:
"You", yourself will not be happy on a Macintosh. You say that Apple's approach in OS X isn't the best for everyone? You're right, it's not the best for "you". You're going about Apple's products like they should run like everyone else's products and that's just not logical.

I guess you misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't intend to say that their approach to the entire OS wasn't best for me. I'm saying that certain features within it aren't the best for me - just like certain features within Vista aren't the best for me. I'm not sure why you think that a couple of missing features is going to make me throw out the entire idea of getting a MBP....throwing out the baby with the bath water, eh? This is more of a balancing act here, where I'm looking at specific features. Notice how I didn't ask whether or not I should get OSX....I'm asking specific questions regarding the operation of OSX and it's features. Let me worry about the overall strategy and about making the ultimate decision. You worry about answering my questions....or not.

Lone Deranger · Dec 22, 2008

He said CUT N paste isn't in OSX.... You can copy & paste and move.

theNEOone said:
You're joking, right? You can't copy/paste on the Mac? Please tell me you aren't serious...

theNEOone · Dec 22, 2008

Lone Deranger said:
He said CUT N paste isn't in OSX.... You can copy & paste and move.

Ok...but that's still pretty bad. What's the logic behind not having cut/paste? Does this apply to the entire OS, because the only app I use cut/paste in is Excel.

=|

HLdan · Dec 22, 2008

theNEOone said:
You're joking, right? You can't copy/paste on the Mac? Please tell me you aren't serious...

I guess you misunderstood what I wrote. . I'm not sure why you think that a couple of missing features is going to make me throw out the entire idea of getting a MBP....throwing out the baby with the bath water, eh? This is more of a balancing act here, where I'm looking at specific features. Notice how I didn't ask whether or not I should get OSX....I'm asking specific questions regarding the operation of OSX and it's features.

Let me worry about the overall strategy and about making the ultimate decision.
You worry about answering my questions....or not.

Firstly, your last line is a bit on the rude side. Remember, we are here to help you and we don't get paid for those types of comments.

Secondly, if you were one of "US" (posters that are reading your posts) you give a great impression that you are unhappy with the way Apple makes the iPhone and you don't like how they design the OS to be less customizable, well Mac OS X is the same way. It's designed to be simple and logical.

The logic behind why ALL apps on the Mac don't quit when you hit the close button is because the Macintosh is a multi-windowed, multi-tasking OS. Microsoft Windows is a single windowed, single task OS. It's not meant for true multi-tasking like the Mac OS. If an app has functionality without the last window opened logically the system won't quit the app until you do a key combo or File-Quit.
Example the Safari browser still has functionality after the window is closed. You can still choose File-New window, access bookmarks and history.
System Preferences can't do anything without the window opened because all it's functions are within that window so it will quit when you hit the close button.
The Mac OS is not inconsistent, the entire system works this way for any and all apps, even 3rd party software.

Lastly you also misunderstood what I wrote. I said the Mac OS doesn't have CUT N PASTE, not copy n paste, it does have that but CUT N PASTE is the #1 complaint ranted by recent switchers.
I will tell this, unless you are really tired of Windows you will end up using your Mac as a Windows machine which is a waste since you are paying more for the computer and extra money for a Windows license. At this point a PC is better suited for you. Don't buy a Mac because it's pretty. Buy it for OS X or it's a waste.

Lone Deranger · Dec 22, 2008

It applies just to Finder... Finder doesn't have Cut.... It does have Copy, Paste and the ability to Move files/folders between locations. I can't say I've ever missed Cut.

Other applications (like Safari, Text editor, PhotoShop, iTunes, etc.) do have Cut functionality. So don't worry so much about it.

theNEOone said:
Does this apply to the entire OS, because the only app I use cut/paste in is Excel.

=|

Ploki · Dec 22, 2008

heres a feature you can dig:
no viruses.

TuffLuffJimmy · Dec 22, 2008

Ploki said:
heres a feature you can dig:
no viruses.

I don't think that's much of a feature anymore. When's the last time someone got a virus in Vista? I have no anti-virus on my install of vista and it's been running fine for a while.

Cliff3 · Dec 22, 2008

theNEOone said:
I'm currently searching for a new notebook and have a few on my list - the Macbook pro is currently on top. I'm a life-long Windows user and have been using Vista without any issues...happy user here.

3. There are things that I REALLY REALLY like about the MBP, but I'm hesitant to drop $2500 on a new computer to gain some cool new features, but lose some basic ones that I've grown accustomed to.

Your budget doesn't appear to include OS X application software. If you're planning on buying a Mac to run Windows, buy a Lenovo machine instead. You can configure the hardware to have similar features as the Mac and it will be a lot less expensive, particularly if you factor in the software costs.

theNEOone · Dec 22, 2008

HLdan said:
Firstly, your last line is a bit on the rude side. Remember, we are here to help you and we don't get paid for those types of comments.

Fair enough - I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to make a point.

HLdan said:
...you give a great impression that you are unhappy with the way Apple makes the iPhone .

It's sort of a love-hate relationship, and I thought I made this clear. Even though there are things that drive me mad about the iPhone, I really can't think of any other phone I'd rather have....This shouldn't keep me from demanding more features, however. I have the right to expect more.

I don't understand this either/or logic that you have. Why can't I dislike certain features without enjoying the overall device? I realize that I'm someone that will never be 100% happy with OSX or Vista. I'll probably be happy with 75% of one and 65% of the other. What I'm trying to do is figure out if OSX will be the platform that pisses me off 25% or 35% of the time...

HLdan said:
Microsoft Windows is a single windowed, single task OS. It's not meant for true multi-tasking like the Mac OS.

I have no idea why you think this...I use Windows with a bazillion windows open at work, using many simultaneously. Isn't this THE definition of multi-tasking? In fact, I've always viewed Windows as the more productive platform where you get your work done (with your 10 million programs) and the Mac as the platform where you do the 2 or 3 simple things, like email, photo editing, and web browsing...Maybe this is a misconception, but look no further than Apple if you want the culprit.....their marketing for their product in the Mac vs. PC ads is a perfect example: PC for the serious/professional (boring) stuff, and Macs for the personal (fun) stuff.

HLdan said:
The Mac OS is not inconsistent, the entire system works this way for any and all apps, even 3rd party software.

I don't think this is true, because from what I've read things like "Internet Connect" only has one window but doesn't close when you hit X and the Chess game is similar, but slightly even more inconsistent because it doesn't even have an X in the window...again, not something I've experienced personally, but what I've read during my research.

I think what I'm going to do is take one of the suggestions in this thread and ask a friend to let me use her Mac for a week. Hopefully this will settle things once and for all.

theNEOone · Dec 22, 2008

Cliff3 said:
Your budget doesn't appear to include OS X application software. If you're planning on buying a Mac to run Windows, buy a Lenovo machine instead. You can configure the hardware to have similar features as the Mac and it will be a lot less expensive, particularly if you factor in the software costs.

Which hardware features are you talking about?

The software is included, btw. I have a great EPP through work where I can get a nice config on a 2.8 MBP for $2300, Office 08 for $15 (yes, fifteen), etc. etc.

=|

Potential PC -> Mac converter here...Questions. Also, have issues w/ OSX? Pls share.

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