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MacRumors
Feb 27, 2004, 10:04 AM
This blog (http://www.tzonbryan.is-a-geek.org/myblog/blosxom.cgi/tech/apple/news_and_rumours/nuanditunes.three) reports on an unconfirmed rumor that Apple may be stepping up to negotiate with at least one college to provide iTunes Music service to their students.

According to the blog, Northeastern University "is negotiating to buy a predetermined number of downloads at the reduced rate from iTMS so that its students will be encouraged not to download songs off P2P networks."

So far Napster has found success in negotiating deals with universities (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/02/20040204204644.shtml) to provide their unlimited streaming service for college students. Apple's iTunes does not share a similar flat-fee/unlimited access model, however, so its unclear how such a deal would be implemented.

1macker1
Feb 27, 2004, 10:06 AM
How would this work, ITMS is a pay per song store, unlike napster which is subscription based.

paulypants
Feb 27, 2004, 10:08 AM
it would be great for apple to compete with napster on that level

pb1212580
Feb 27, 2004, 10:23 AM
great idea... would solve SOME of the P2P illegal download problems and just tag on the price into the student fee... yet another misc. fee! ;)

so is this going to turn into a "flat rate" program in the future? like the cell phone plans...

$30/month for UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS!

and Buy an iPod and get 1st month free!

think about it... how many people you know download 30 songs a month...? that's about 2 albums. or how many CDs would you buy ON AVERAGE per month... it's definitely 2+ for me! :)

VicMacs
Feb 27, 2004, 10:24 AM
yeah, a neat deal to start off with, then the money wouldnt hurt so much and we could get used to the "music bill"

go with this apple!

Wash!!
Feb 27, 2004, 10:25 AM
All the University has to do is to set up the students as allowance system and the students buys it from the University as need it or they pay a flat fee for it.

Also they can sell gift certificates at a discount...

Its not that difficult to set up

gwuMACaddict
Feb 27, 2004, 10:27 AM
i think all these campus things are a bad idea personally... downloading music IS illegal... why pander to it at all?

wdlove
Feb 27, 2004, 10:33 AM
I think that anything that encourages students to download music legally is a good idea. It's good for Apple and the students.

raptorhigh
Feb 27, 2004, 10:34 AM
I attend the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, and they have taken a pretty hard line on this subject. They are constantly monitoring network packets trying to catch people file sharing. It seems to have worked at least to a degree. In the beginning of the year the violators were fined, cut-off from the network, and forced to do community service. I already used iTMS exclusively, but if I hadn't I would have been convinced to stop stealing.

ITR 81
Feb 27, 2004, 10:38 AM
How about MIT, Yale and Harvard?
Ivy League Schools need love too.

Frisco
Feb 27, 2004, 10:46 AM
Great Idea!

I am glad Apple isn't becoming complacent just because they are currently #1. Apple is determined to stay #1.

Other music services have their own strengths and if Apple finds a way to implement others' strengths into ITMS then it will only be that much stronger!

mrsebastian
Feb 27, 2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i think all these campus things are a bad idea personally... downloading music IS illegal... why pander to it at all?

i agree that the selling to colleges and how those funds are come by is a sore subject for many. though i'm outta college by a long shot, i'd rather have that money go to some part of my education.

all that said, i think it is a good idea to stop some of the illegal downloading. however, until the industry changes it's greedy ways and remembers that they wouldn't be anything without first the artists and second the customers, they aren't going to get much sympothy. i think every artist should set up a website for donations for their hard work. i'd just assume download their music directly from them.

Doctor Q
Feb 27, 2004, 11:23 AM
If Apple makes no changes to the iTMS service and software, the university would presumably pay for a number of tunes at some discounted bulk price and then parcel them out to students. But they couldn't give students umlimited downloads for a fixed price or "for free" (bundled into tuition) since there would be an upper limit to the quantity. And I doubt the university would agree to pay Apple after the fact no matter how many were downloaded, or to cut off all students if one of them used up the monthly allotment that covers all students. And how would iTMS distinguish students from that university from the rest of us?

So, without Apple making changes to the iTMS system and software, I don't see a practical way to implement this service.

If Apple does make changes, it could be to allow a charge-my-group-account method of some kind. Maybe connections from the university network would be given access to the university iTMS account, with unlimited downloading once the university and Apple set up a fixed-cost contract based on estimated usage. Allowing downloading by off-campus students would still present a technological challenge.

jvaska
Feb 27, 2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i think all these campus things are a bad idea personally... downloading music IS illegal... why pander to it at all?


it is illegal...and it's probably here to stay...

i'm reading more and more about general usage fees (not just at colleges) that will provide for either unlimited downloading or a point system for downloads (each song is three points or something like that...

which is why i believe this is happening...because it must...it's not about encouraging bad habits, it's about encouraging good ones with the obvious extra incentives...

if the industry doesn't get on board...it will fall apart...they should have been doing this back in 99...v

Elektronkind
Feb 27, 2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i think all these campus things are a bad idea personally... downloading music IS illegal... why pander to it at all?

Buying a bootleg CD from a street vendor is illegal. Does that make going to a store and buying the real CD a bad thing?

By your logic, music shops are "pandering" to the bootleg street vendor.

/ek

david_r_p
Feb 27, 2004, 11:30 AM
for universities to have to subsidize their student's music downloading habits in any way whatsoever. I mean really, how ridiculous, especially considering that many universities are public and supported with taxpayer money. I really don't want my taxes going to some kid's Eminem collection! Will the university have to supply an iPod to all students too?!?

I guess for Apple this would be a good thing though. I wish Apple would worry more about getting universities to adopt the Mac platform and OSX rather than this year's Walkman.

dongmin
Feb 27, 2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
If Apple makes no changes to the iTMS service and software, the university would presumably pay for a number of tunes at some discounted bulk price and then parcel them out to students. But they couldn't give students umlimited downloads for a fixed price or "for free" (bundled into tuition) since there would be an upper limit to the quantity. And I doubt the university would agree to pay Apple after the fact no matter how many were downloaded, or to cut off all students if one of them used up the monthly allotment that covers all students. And how would iTMS distinguish students from that university from the rest of us?

So, without Apple making changes to the iTMS system and software, I don't see a practical way to implement this service.

If Apple does make changes, it could be to allow a charge-my-group-account method of some kind. Maybe connections from the university network would be given access to the university iTMS account, with unlimited downloading once the university and Apple set up a fixed-cost contract based on estimated usage. Allowing downloading by off-campus students would still present a technological challenge.

I'm sure Apple has and is considering different economic models. Changes to iTMS, I'm assuming, is the easiest part of the solution.

There was talk of listener loans. It wasn't clear how exactly this would work, especially since Jobs has explicitly come out against the idea of 'renting' music.

My guess is that Apple will just offer discounted price on gift certificates or allowances. This would be the easiest to implement and most consistent with their strategy of 'selling' music. Maybe it'll be 79 cents a pop.

pbooktebo
Feb 27, 2004, 11:33 AM
What I think is flawed here is that the ITMS still doesn't let you stream your purchased music on your local network. This is what music at college is all about, and many dorms have converted everyone to using ITMS so that the building's network has music for all.

In fact, I was in my college library yesterday and found 3 shared libraries through my Airport card. I started listening, but two or three tunes brought up the "popup" registration screen.

In other words, if I buy a CD and rip it, I can stream it, but if I buy it off ITMS, I can't stream it. This doesn't make sense as the streaming was always touted by Apple as legal. Like I said, it is a primary reason for those without iPods to use it (that and the fact that it is the best interface).

Any thoughts on this?

Elektronkind
Feb 27, 2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by david_r_p
for universities to have to subsidize their student's music downloading habits in any way whatsoever. I mean really, how ridiculous, especially considering that many universities are public and supported with taxpayer money. I really don't want my taxes going to some kid's Eminem collection! Will the university have to supply an iPod to all students too?!?

I'm sure the cost of this would be coming out of a student fee subsidized budget.

Almost every US uni out there charges students money, separate from tuition, under names such as "Student Activity Fee", "Student Technology Fee" and so on. These are $50-$100 fees that each student pay to the uni for those services.

/ek

duce
Feb 27, 2004, 11:40 AM
It can be done via a localized distribution license . If Apple sold a unique iTune software license and package to the university that would allow them to stream music via iTunes. Now you can share music a maximum of three computers. If a special sever version could share to only those on the university network. The students could choose the songs and they would be uploaded to the server for all to share. Just a thought:rolleyes:

CmdrLaForge
Feb 27, 2004, 11:42 AM
Instead of that they should work a little bit harder on the european version ! ! !

Why can't they release it in Europe one after another.

:(

Doctor Q
Feb 27, 2004, 11:42 AM
How soon before some U.S. city decides that all of its residents would like music on demand, and buys into the same arrangement as the universities? Funding would come from city taxes. All citizens would be provided access at home or at the public library and it would become just another public utility.

If a majority in some small town favors it "for the common good", is there any reason to think this wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't happen?

CMillerERAU
Feb 27, 2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
How soon before some U.S. city decides that all of its residents would like music on demand, and buys into the same arrangement as the universities? Funding would come from city taxes. All citizens would be provided access at home or at the public library and it would become just another public utility.

If a majority in some small town favors it "for the common good", is there any reason to think this wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't happen?

Eeek, sounds a "big brother" situation to me. If that's the case then they might start asking Apple to censor music and not let anyone in that community to download Explicit tracks or something. No, I don't think that groups should be doing this. If only from an ethical standpoint. I personally would hate for my school to start this up. Most people on campus would probably either abuse it or not use it at all, making the fees unfair to the general student body. As for government bodies such as city hall or counties to start this up, I really think its a waste of public resources.

vpalvarez
Feb 27, 2004, 11:58 AM
It is going to be curious to see how this works out considering that ITMS downloads are only in aac. Although its an excellent idea to get people started on the RIGHT standard, the means to ultilze that standard are even more important, in my opinion i don't think that provided the itunes software goe far enough. I don't expect Apple to give iPods away, but they will have to at least discount them for the students, because they want to take their music with them, and not just have it on the computer.

Snowy_River
Feb 27, 2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
i think all these campus things are a bad idea personally... downloading music IS illegal... why pander to it at all?

So those songs I downloaded from iTMS aren't legal?
As far as 'pandering' to it, I'd say that there's clearly a demand for music among students. Why is it pandering for universities to respond to this demand by making such music available? If a university uses its position to leverage a 'bulk' rate for the songs from iTMS, then, if I were a student, I might find that an attractive deal. Go to XYZ-U, and I know that $15 of my fees go toward allowing me to get 20 songs a semester, or whatever. If I was going to download those 20 songs anyway, then this would be a $5 savings for me...

:rolleyes:

Elektronkind
Feb 27, 2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
How soon before some U.S. city decides that all of its residents would like music on demand, and buys into the same arrangement as the universities? Funding would come from city taxes. All citizens would be provided access at home or at the public library and it would become just another public utility.

If a majority in some small town favors it "for the common good", is there any reason to think this wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't happen?

Because a city isn't liable for the internet traffic of it's citizens, duh.

Universities are liable, to some degree, for the traffic and use by it's student. Universities are also seeing their networks pushed to the max by rampant file sharing. Hence the universities are exploring way to turn the student to the light side of the force, so to speak.

/ek

SiliconAddict
Feb 27, 2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by 1macker1
How would this work, ITMS is a pay per song store, unlike napster which is subscription based.

If I had to make a blind guess? Maybe a monthly limit of free songs that are paid by the college. Think minutes on a phone but in this case songs. So maybe 50-100 songs per person per month with (or maybe without.) rollover.

stoid
Feb 27, 2004, 12:23 PM
If a college really cared about rampant file sharing they would implement a firewall like they have here at Northwest Missouri State U. They open the internet, instant messaging, and E-mail ports, and other special ports per request. Kazaa and other file sharing programs use ports that aren't open, and so you simply cannot connect to it. The only bandwidth problems we have here are these dang viruses that slow the whole campus to 1/3rd speed and requires all the HDs (about 4000!) to be wiped clean about once every other month.

dmaestro3
Feb 27, 2004, 12:25 PM
I'm currently a student (soph) at Northeastern and it is odd how they plan on spending our money this time. They already cancelled the major concert in wake of the riots that resulted due to the malicious acts of only a dozen people versus the 14,000 or so that attend here. It is pretty ridiculous. http://www.pillagefest.com ... Sign the petition to help us out!! http://www.petitiononline.com/sprngfst/petition.html anyways, everyone here uses our own local Direct Connect Hub which the Resnet people don't mind at all because all the bandwidth is internal and the speeds are amazing. Usually around 1Megabyte/s steady. (The Neo-Modus OS X version of the hub is for some reason limited to around 470K/s per user, so its possible to get up to a meg, but not from a single user). Its good to see a greater presence of Apple here on campus. I applied last year for a position as the Apple campus representative but didn't make it, I will be trying out in another year when the current guy graduates. This is good to hear overall as our Infocommons (big computer lab) just set up 6 dual 1.25GHz G4s with dual 17" LCDs and tons of the latest software os x 10.3.2 etc etc, very sweet, and another like 20 or so 17" FP iMacs with Superdrives. There are also 2 XServe (G4)s in a rack underground. Hopefully this will lead to an even greater Apple presence.

SiliconAddict
Feb 27, 2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Elektronkind
Because a city isn't liable for the internet traffic of it's citizens, duh.

Universities are liable, to some degree, for the traffic and use by it's student. Universities are also seeing their networks pushed to the max by rampant file sharing. Hence the universities are exploring way to turn the student to the light side of the force, so to speak.

/ek


No need to be snotty. This is an intriguing idea. I don't think it will ever happen but its similar in scope to how the idea of internet access might be handled as a state or city provided utility. I believe, don't quote me on this, there are a few cities in CA that have already tried this. Now take it one step further with songs. Again I'm doubtful it will ever happen but it's an interesting idea.

Snowy_River
Feb 27, 2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Instead of that they should work a little bit harder on the european version ! ! !

Why can't they release it in Europe one after another.

:(

Do you honestly think that their decision to work on a deal like this is having any effect on the delay for the Europe service?

Snowy_River
Feb 27, 2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by vpalvarez
... I don't expect Apple to give iPods away, but they will have to at least discount them for the students, because they want to take their music with them, and not just have it on the computer.

Uh, students already get iPods at a discount...
:rolleyes:

Elektronkind
Feb 27, 2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
No need to be snotty. This is an intriguing idea. I don't think it will ever happen but its similar in scope to how the idea of internet access might be handled as a state or city provided utility. I believe, don't quote me on this, there are a few cities in CA that have already tried this. Now take it one step further with songs. Again I'm doubtful it will ever happen but it's an interesting idea.

Roads are a necesity of life. Police are. Medical services are. We have government oversight of telecom, power, water, and sewage utilities. Why? Because people would have a hard time functioning if these don't exist. No roads to drive on, no phone to call the police or medical services. No sewer to carry our **** away.

The Internet, and further more, an entertainment service which runs on top of it, are not requirements for a modern society to sustain itself. Government paying for music downloads for its citizens would be like the government paying for or subsidizing the paint you use to repaint your living room.

It's a stupid idea. I can't belive that you even think it's intriguing.

/ek

vpalvarez
Feb 27, 2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Uh, students already get iPods at a discount...
:rolleyes:

I am aware of the education prices, I should have been explicit in saying a discount beyond the current edu prices. Something else that might work is a deal that lets say If you buy an iPod (at the edu price) than you get 30 dls a month for a year. As opposed to adding a fee to the tuition. Just a thought.

Snowy_River
Feb 27, 2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by vpalvarez
I am aware of the education prices, I should have been explicit in saying a discount beyond the current edu prices. Something else that might work is a deal that lets say If you buy an iPod (at the edu price) than you get 30 dls a month for a year. As opposed to adding a fee to the tuition. Just a thought.

Well, assuming that iTMS is a break-even business at $.99 per song, and it's really there to sell iPods, you're advocating giving away $356.40 when someone buys a $269 iPod? So, inorder to break even, Apple has to put in more money than they get out, gross, not net, of the iPod purchase? This makes no sense, whatsoever. Even if it were reduced to allowing the number of downloads that would only be equivalent to the profit that Apple makes on the iPod, this still makes no sense for Apple. It would be a money losing venture.

Sure, I think that Apple should cut things close to try to bolster their position, but I don't think that they should be stupid enough to take massive losses to do so...
:rolleyes:

m01ety
Feb 27, 2004, 01:46 PM
Another Northeastern student chiming in...

This sounds new to me... Haven't heard anything on campus. However, our spankin' all-glass fancy new building for the College of Computer Sciences is opening this fall right across the Museum of Fine Arts, and with a greater campus presence, I wouldn't be surprised to have them be a bit more proactive in the iTMS arena as well...

Apropos: Our underground network operations center has a glass wall adjoing the interbuilding tunnels, and you can peek inside and see the racked servers... I'm happy to report that we have quite a few XServes in there running our campus network... ;)

And yes, as the other student posed above, we did just get several new dualies with dual LCDs, all updated to 10.3.2 and radiating the whole lab with a little realtiy distortion field.. ;)

legion
Feb 27, 2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by ITR 81
How about MIT, Yale and Harvard?
Ivy League Schools need love too.

MIT is not part of the Ivy League.

fyi

SiliconAddict
Feb 27, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Elektronkind

The Internet, and further more, an entertainment service which runs on top of it, are not requirements for a modern society to sustain itself. Government paying for music downloads for its citizens would be like the government paying for or subsidizing the paint you use to repaint your living room.

It's a stupid idea. I can't belive that you even think it's intriguing.

/ek

Say that in a few years when ALL companies realize the amount of cash they can save by moving everything onto the net. How about tax returns? Aren't they making web\electronic based returns mandatory in the next couple of years? Get use to the idea of web everywhere Elektronkind because its happening NOW.
And another thing you better get enlightened on is that the web has migrated from a means of pure entertainment to a means of doing business. Entire industries rely on the net. Hell our way of life relies on the net. You sit at your house and you don't realize how dependant on the net the services you take for granted are dependant on. Gas, phone, electricity to a certain extent all use the net for communications. We havn't gotten to the point of 100% dependency but I would guess we are at a good good solid 40%.
Look at your computer. Tell me how you would get updates for that glorified box of metal without the net? There is serious talk about the teco companies making a transition to VoIP and you can be assured at least part of that system will use the web. Get a clue my friend.

Ja Di ksw
Feb 27, 2004, 01:55 PM
Hopefully this will come to my college before I leave here. Jobs, if your out there, bring it to the U of Illinois :). One more reason to go to grad school, maybe it will be here by then (j/k)

Elektronkind
Feb 27, 2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Look at your computer. Tell me how you would get updates for that glorified box of metal without the net? There is serious talk about the teco companies making a transition to VoIP and you can be assured at least part of that system will use the web. Get a clue my friend.

The original source for this argument was someone posting about cities paying for citizens to have music downloads using tax payer money, a la Universities. That is what I have been focusing on in my replys. You seem to have carried the subject far out of that scope by applying the Internet as a whole to the "Government Subsidizing" subject.

There is no denying what you said that the world is indeed moving everything to Internet-based communication. When the time is right, perhaps something like the Depression-era Rual Electrification Project may be in order so citizens may continue to function in this paradigm.

But, per the original poster's postulation, there is no room for the government to subsidize or pay for music downloads for its citizens.

/ek

Doctor Q
Feb 27, 2004, 02:00 PM
What interesting reactions to the hypothetical city-wide music service idea!

"Music service" is certainly not a necessity, but some cities do provide nonessential services to their citizens. I remember reading recently about a rich city somewhere that provides a health club and other "freebies" to all residents. A university is much like a small city. So are the Mall of America, Disneyland, and companies with large "business campuses".

So another way to put my question is

What other large groups with a high demand for music might find it reasonable to buy in "bulK", i.e., who besides universities might Apple sell this type of service to?

Photorun
Feb 27, 2004, 02:19 PM
This is great news! Get's Apple back in the door with universities on another level. Leverage baby!

Moxiemike
Feb 27, 2004, 02:28 PM
What if Apple did some sort of thing where you were issued a student ID # or it say, worked off of your uni email, where when you logged in, you would be able to get songs for say, $.75??

And maybe $9.99 albums for $7.49

Make it something that's university wise, like a student discount program.

There HAS to be a way.. and that would ensure marketplace dominance. I think that a $.25 loss on each would song would more than be made up for by the sheer volume of students who would download like crazy.

1macker1
Feb 27, 2004, 02:50 PM
So they trying to sneak into being subscription based.

winmacguy
Feb 27, 2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by david_r_p
for universities to have to subsidize their student's music downloading habits in any way whatsoever. I mean really, how ridiculous, especially considering that many universities are public and supported with taxpayer money. I really don't want my taxes going to some kid's Eminem collection! Will the university have to supply an iPod to all students too?!?

I guess for Apple this would be a good thing though. I wish Apple would worry more about getting universities to adopt the Mac platform and OSX rather than this year's Walkman.

Never mind what is right or wrong in this situation or whether students should or should not download music of the internet or P2P networks. This is where Apple can directly compete with Napster and beat them for market/mind share, that is to Apples advantage.

it is also illegal to exceed the posted speed limit (all cruise control aside)

MrMacMan
Feb 27, 2004, 03:12 PM
Hmmmm

Rumors from a blog eh?


:rolleyes:


:opens up his own blog:

'PowerBooks G5's coming Tomorrow, unreleased information details here'

:submits to MR:

Ahhh... good to know.

:D

jholzner
Feb 27, 2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike
What if Apple did some sort of thing where you were issued a student ID # or it say, worked off of your uni email, where when you logged in, you would be able to get songs for say, $.75??

And maybe $9.99 albums for $7.49

Make it something that's university wise, like a student discount program.

There HAS to be a way.. and that would ensure marketplace dominance. I think that a $.25 loss on each would song would more than be made up for by the sheer volume of students who would download like crazy.

If you are neting a loss of .25 per song it does not matter HOW many songs are downloaded...it's will still be a loss...the more songs downloaded the greater the loss. It only works when they cut their PROFIT down to maybe 1 cent...and then make it up in volume.

jadam
Feb 27, 2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Doctor Q
How soon before some U.S. city decides that all of its residents would like music on demand, and buys into the same arrangement as the universities? Funding would come from city taxes. All citizens would be provided access at home or at the public library and it would become just another public utility.

If a majority in some small town favors it "for the common good", is there any reason to think this wouldn't, couldn't, or shouldn't happen?

dont forget, no matter how wierd this may sound... some people DONT listen to music. And they wouldnt want to pay taxes for something like this.

splashman
Feb 27, 2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Moxiemike
There HAS to be a way.. and that would ensure marketplace dominance. I think that a $.25 loss on each would song would more than be made up for by the sheer volume of students who would download like crazy.

Heh heh heh. I think that's what our illustrious educational system calls "creative math". Gotta love it.

Remember way, way back, in 6th grade math class, those silly little rules about multiplying negative numbers?

Anyway, I was going to bring up the same issue, with a slightly different focus. Since Apple claims that they're not making any money on downloads, we can assume that any discount will result in a loss. And since Apple isn't in the habit of selling products at a loss, even for the sake of increasing market share (heck, they won't even sell their hardware at a reasonable margin for the sake of increasing market share!), I'd imagine there's more to this deal than meets the eye. For instance, perhaps the deal will include some other way for Apple to make up for the loss, such as a bulk purchase of iPods. Even with that, it's hard to imagine any kind of a discounted deal that makes money for Apple in the long run, because long after the student body is saturated with iPods, they'll still be downloading discounted tunes, every one of which will cost Apple money.

ssnmx
Feb 27, 2004, 06:37 PM
I think the discount would have to come from the music companies and not from Apple itself. If they are already getting a couple of cents per song, then a $0.95 per song doesn't sound appealing.

I would NOT like my university to adopt this, because let's face it: we students are poor. I, personally, would like to see tuition staying the same (going down sounds impossible) rather than going up for free downloads!! I have a huge debt already to pay for my tuition and books! And this year my university increased tuition by almost $800!! Did I mention PUBLIC university? :mad:

Music companies should allow Apple to give the songs at a discount for students. Then Apple should convince universities across the US to encourage students to get music through iTMS... Otherwise or Apple loses or we, students, lose!

macnulty
Feb 27, 2004, 09:28 PM
not a good idea, first it breaks the simplicity of the system by offering a seperate pricing structure for a university: how can Apple approach the record labels with a one size fits all deal then turn around and offer different consumers different deals, second, napster as an example? give me a break they leak money as fast as a windows os leaks security. But then again if the whole idea is to sell
iPods, there is nothing more appealing then a 20 year old moroon with some cash and a dull saturday night in the mid-west or pa for that matter :})

Inspector Lee
Feb 28, 2004, 12:04 AM
I think this could be a potential nail in the coffin of Napster. Most college kids lack the $$$ to blow on downloaded music. There are too many other necessary expenses on top of food, tuition and books e.g. booze, smokes, prophylactics, exotic oils, etc. If you didn't have a whole lot of coin lying around, which would you rather have:

1) 10 songs for $10
2) Unlimited access to 1,000,000+ songs for 30 days for $10

We all know iTMS is pretty slick, I mean right know with the pepsi cap thing, I'm donwloading songs for quasi-free hand over fist. However, in the future wouldn't it be nice to have choices over which company to download songs from?

It would pain me to see Jobs morph into a "Gateshole" on this issue.

I. Lee

Snowy_River
Feb 28, 2004, 02:38 AM
Originally posted by splashman
...(heck, they won't even sell their hardware at a reasonable margin for the sake of increasing market share!)...

You know, I get sick and tired of comments like these. If someone has an actual link showing that Apple's margins are significantly higher than those of the rest of the market, please provide it. It's not hard, at any price point, to find a roughly equivalent machine on the Wintel side that costs the same. Yes, it's from a high quality computer manufacturer, but that's what Apple is.

If you're complaining that there are no cheap Macs because there are no clones, then that's another issue, which I've talked about before. Until Apple gains more marketshare,, it would be suicide to license clones again...

Snowy_River
Feb 28, 2004, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by ssnmx
... And this year my university increased tuition by almost $800!! Did I mention PUBLIC university? :mad:...

Forgive me if I don't have that much sympathy for you. My university increased resident tuition by over $1000 last year, and is considering an increase of more than $600 this year.

And, yes, mine is a public university, too.

My undergrad school was a private university, and I recall one year when the tuition went up by $2000, from $16000 to $18000. My load debt from that is hefty...

billyboy
Feb 28, 2004, 03:38 AM
There is more to education than poring over books and assignments. If the iTMS "philosophy" can be engrained into students, they will be learning a lesson for life that it is possible to have your musical cake and eat it as long as you put a little bit back into the system.

iFranky
Feb 28, 2004, 09:09 AM
This is good news for Apple if it comes off.

But what they REALLY need to do is to win the standards war. If they don't make AAC the de facto standard then the wheel is off as badly as it was when Mac market share sunk into single figures in the 90s.

They need to make it the cheapest technology to license, support people embedding AAC-DRM support in music players et al.

They have the best music player and the best store, hands down. But its not always going to be like this as the market expands. They can't allow themselves to become the prohibitively expensive 'niche' supplier in this market if they want to succeed.

Doctor Q
Feb 28, 2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by billyboy
There is more to education than poring over books and assignments. If the iTMS "philosophy" can be engrained into students, they will be learning a lesson for life that it is possible to have your musical cake and eat it as long as you put a little bit back into the system. iTMS will be an important part of every student's education. I'm sure most students will buy mostly educational "books on tape" and buy popular music only for scholarly research if they are music majors. ;)

curious0
Feb 29, 2004, 08:40 PM
seeing as I'm a member of the NEU system I would be happy about hearing that my school was involved in such a project, however given that they just cancelled Ludakris and Jurassic 5 from playing due to post superbowl rioting I question whether apple would continue to be associated with them either.

as for the business details, I doubt it is happening though it is an interesting rumor. It could be a measure to make the now angry student body happier about having their spring fest cancelled, but it just seems unlikely. Part of the question would be are all students going to be able to download, or just those on campus.

Counterfit
Feb 29, 2004, 09:16 PM
seeing as I'm a member of the NEU system I would be happy about hearing that my school was involved in such a project, however given that they just cancelled Ludakris and Jurassic 5 from playing due to post superbowl rioting I question whether apple would continue to be associated with them either.

as for the business details, I doubt it is happening though it is an interesting rumor. It could be a measure to make the now angry student body happier about having their spring fest cancelled, but it just seems unlikely. Part of the question would be are all students going to be able to download, or just those on campus. Pff.:rolleyes: We all know they should move the target down Huntington Ave a bit and strike a deal with WIT!




HAHAHA!!! Like that would ever happen, this school is so horribly in M$'s pocket, it's not funny. That and I don't think it would be running by the end of the year, so I don't care if they get it here. :p

RichardCarletta
Mar 1, 2004, 09:58 AM
Apple only makes 10 cents per Itunes download . The rest of the fee , 89 cents goes to the Recording industry , so Apple could not reduce the download fee lower than 89 cents. As for college kids , they expect to be treated as adults . Adults are expected to be responsible for their actions as well as the consequences of their actions. Therefore if they are caught illegally downloading music, they should expect to pay the piper. Using the Apple Itunes Store is legal , but using it everyday could really slowdown the college's network. If a school has broadband facilities , then maybe it could work out. Maybe schools could restrict downloading Itunes music to Weekends , that way schoolwork and research would be less impacted by massive network traffic.

Counterfit
Mar 1, 2004, 12:57 PM
I'd like to assume that a large school like NU has sufficient bandwidth to deal with it. And it's not like no one there uses it now anyway.

MongoTheGeek
Mar 1, 2004, 01:42 PM
It hit me what the solution is.

They just buy one copy of each song and have a copy of iTunes running on a bunch of beefy servers sharing their playlists.

No changes to the licenses.
No onerous continuing fees.

If Apple were *REALLY* clever they could even subcontract out the selling inside of the subdomain and give the school a cut. The school could perhaps even make money on it.

andybouchard
Mar 2, 2004, 12:21 AM
I am a NEU undergrad, and like most colleges and universities our tuition is going up also. Although this would be one of the few good things I would not mind paying for. But, I sort of doubt this will happen at NEU, but hey, you never know! I'm keeping my fingers crossed! :D

Counterfit
Mar 15, 2004, 12:59 PM
It hit me what the solution is.

They just buy one copy of each song and have a copy of iTunes running on a bunch of beefy servers sharing their playlists.

No changes to the licenses.
No onerous continuing fees. That wouldn't work. You have to authorize the computer playing the song, not just the one that has the file. So streaming like that wouldn't work.

ebuddy889
Mar 21, 2004, 11:01 PM
This blog (http://www.tzonbryan.is-a-geek.org/myblog/blosxom.cgi/tech/apple/news_and_rumours/nuanditunes.three) reports on an unconfirmed rumor that Apple may be stepping up to negotiate with at least one college to provide iTunes Music service to their students.

According to the blog, Northeastern University "is negotiating to buy a predetermined number of downloads at the reduced rate from iTMS so that its students will be encouraged not to download songs off P2P networks."

So far Napster has found success in negotiating deals with universities (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/02/20040204204644.shtml) to provide their unlimited streaming service for college students. Apple's iTunes does not share a similar flat-fee/unlimited access model, however, so its unclear how such a deal would be implemented.

Why don't they just put a real music store on campus such as "Strawberries", and block all access to p2p networks. Make them buy the CD if they want to listen to the new songs. Otherwise you make the college "in the business" of selling music. Plus you incurr a cost of music in the tuition to these colleges for everyone and some might not even listen to music or the selection that is offered.

Today music is the fad, tomorrow who knows.... movies, software then what porn? when does it end?

You know if you buy the cd, and burn only the songs you like to another mixed cd with a few other songs from cd's you bought, no one will ever know, incuding the RIAA. And I believe it's pefectly legal as long as you don't sell the cd's.

You can dump the contents of a music cd onto an ipod within seconds at home or on a friends computer. What is the scenerio at the college? Buy the song from Apple through itunes on campus computers, hook up your ipod to campus computers (if it's permitted) and copy it to your ipod. Doesn't sound legal to me.

Even if you did buy the song it is on campus property. Then you need to erase it from the campus computer? Why would you leave it for others to copy or listen to, you paid for it?

CD's are still the way to go! You'll have those songs in 20 years when they come back to reload on your ipod.....