Racism still a Big Issue in America

[carbonmotion]

:)

[mactastic]

Who's the comedian who does the routine where he's in an elevator speaking Spanish so the whities can't understand him then he gets all pissed off 'cause he can't understand the Chinese guys and he says something to them like "This is America! Speak Spanish!"

[TEG]

Canada still has racial issues. Most Anglophones (English Speakers) hate Francophones (French Speakers) causing huge debates, and Many Quebeccers to want to leave Canada. Also there are huge resentments between the White, Indian, First Nations (Native Americans), and Asian persons. They just hide the conflicts in the government, instead of voicing opinions out like the U.S. does.

[Nermal]

We've got racism here in NZ too. I'm not too sure of the details, but the Maoris (natives) get better treatment from the Government than the rest of us.

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by mactastic
Who's the comedian who does the routine where he's in an elevator speaking Spanish so the whities can't understand him then he gets all pissed off 'cause he can't understand the Chinese guys and he says something to them like "This is America! Speak Spanish!"

Sounds like a Paul Rodriguez sketch.

[Frohickey]

I think that Racism is a virtual non-issue. You will always have some person vent and use something in order to characterize the issue they are venting at. It could be race, it could be gender, it could be job status, it could be financial status.

I would vent sometimes, and I vent because they are women drivers. Or I would vent at times because they are blacks with their radios on too loud.

[candan9019]

Originally posted by TEG
Canada still has racial issues. Most Anglophones (English Speakers) hate Francophones (French Speakers) causing huge debates, and Many Quebeccers to want to leave Canada. Also there are huge resentments between the White, Indian, First Nations (Native Americans), and Asian persons. They just hide the conflicts in the government, instead of voicing opinions out like the U.S. does.

Some French hate English speakers too, it goes both ways. People are more tollerant up here but thats not to say that there isn't racism. The government doesn't hide it they just try to please everyone which keeps things at a slightly lower level than it is in the States.

One thing I have noticed is many people dislike Americans. Since I lived in the U.S. for so long some think I'm American and are kinda rude. They need to realize people are people.

[Earendil]

How big of an issue is Racism in the next generation? I was brought up a Home schooled kid. Not at all sheltered, except for the CURRENT issues with racism. I live in a small town called "White Salmon", and though it's named for the Fish that populate the many rivers, there is *MAYBE* 5 black families within 20 miles. I was raised to not have any predigest towards any color of skin (a Black man even married into the family and is now my uncle, great guy, funny). But I always believed that racism was still a big problem, just not as bad as the 60s (well, no *****, I know :D)

BUT

I've gotten to talking to some of my big city friends about the subject. They believe that Racism isn't an issue hardly at ALL these days. They all have african-american friends that don't mind what you call them, and joke around with names. It's a very open topic, and among college and under kids it isn't a huge deal. I've started to experience this myself. And though I haven't had a chance to ask a minority if he feels oppressed because of his race, many of my friends (again from the city) say their friends don't feel anything at all.

So perhaps kids of todays generation are being raised right? Or perhaps living in the NW has something to do with it...

That said, there will ALWAYS be people with a predigest towards people. And the way it works, the majority will always be able to in act, both verbal and physical, they predigest then those that are the minority, and get away with it.

Anyone have similar experiences?

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Frohickey
I think that Racism is a virtual non-issue.

do your black, asian and arab friends agree with you?

excuse me while i go order some Freedom Fries.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Frohickey
Sounds like a Paul Rodriguez sketch.

Reminds me of this joke:

A Latino walked into his favorite Mexican restaurant and sat down at the table. He was surprised when his waiter turned out to be a young Chinese man, who took his order in broken, heavily-accented Spanish. When he was finished with his meal, the man tracked down the restaurant owner, and asks him, "Where did you ever find a Chinese guy who speaks Spanish?"

"Shssh!" the owner says, "He thinks he's learning English!"

[Taft]

Originally posted by Earendil

I've gotten to talking to some of my big city friends about the subject. They believe that Racism isn't an issue hardly at ALL these days. They all have african-american friends that don't mind what you call them, and joke around with names. It's a very open topic, and among college and under kids it isn't a huge deal. I've started to experience this myself. And though I haven't had a chance to ask a minority if he feels oppressed because of his race, many of my friends (again from the city) say their friends don't feel anything at all.

I would agree that overt racism in urban america is far more rare than it used to be. However, I still think there is a fair amount of institutional racism in many cities. Further, while racism may be in decline, segregation remains an issue.

For example, in Chicago there is a very diverse population. In fact, I believe there are more minorities living in the city of Chicago than there are whites (not sure on that actually). Anyway, while Chicago may be statistically diverse, you would never know it if you stayed in certain parts of the city. Virtually all of the black population lives on the West and South sides and virtually all of the white population lives on the North/Northwest side.

This type of situation is common in America's cities and it leads to some pretty serious problems in terms of crime, access to education, access to elected officials, access to other city services (including public transportation), etc.

Also, things like racial profiling still run rampant. I've been told by more than one cabbie in Chicago that they will usually not pick up black men. They say something like, "Those _____ don't pay half the time and will mug you the other half." Besides being ridiculously wrong, its a pretty racist statement. I've also read many stories about racial profiling from cops, as well. (I know this evidence is only anecdotal, but...) My black friends have also told me of many similar instances of such treatment.

My point is this: while racism (at least overt racism) may be on the decline, the problems that have traditionally accompanied racism are often still present. Until blacks and other minorities are more integrated into "white society" there will continually be an imbalance in quality of life and the ability to receive fair treatment accross the board.

I look forward to the day when race isn't an issue any more. Unfortunately, I think we are still a long ways away from that point.

Taft

[Earendil]

Originally posted by zimv20
do your black, asian and arab friends agree with you?

excuse me while i go order some Freedom Fries.

As my post says, I grew up in a town with no Minorities my own age (except Mexicans, and as a soccer player, there isn't anything but respect there). But my friends that live in the city who have cross culture friendships say that their African-American friends don't think it is an issue in their personal life. Of course my friends could be lying, but they have no reason to, not in the context our conversation was in.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by Earendil
my friends that live in the city who have cross culture friendships say that their African-American friends don't think it is an issue in their personal life.

if that's how they truly feel, that's great. i don't think that's been everyone's experience.

a long time ago, i met this guy, who happened to be black. he proposed an experiment: we walked down the street together. i've never been stared at so much. because he lived in a predominately white area, he said that's what it's like for him all the time.

[Earendil]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Taft
I would agree that overt racism in urban america is far more rare than it used to be. However, I still think there is a fair amount of institutional racism in many cities. Further, while racism may be in decline, segregation remains an issue.

An issue, but does that make it a problem? Is mere segregation a negative thing?

For example, in Chicago there is a very diverse population. ...Virtually all of the black population lives on the West and South sides and virtually all of the white population lives on the North/Northwest side.

I don't know Chicago at all, but could this be a segragation brought on by the finacial situation of these familes? Are there wealthy black familes living on the NW side? Are there poor white families living on the NW side?

This type of situation is common in America's cities and it leads to some pretty serious problems in terms of crime, access to education, access to elected officials, access to other city services (including public transportation), etc.

I can understand this. But if I'm even partially right about the financial situation of families in these "segregated areas", then that might explain a lot of what you are defining.

Also, things like racial profiling still run rampant. I've been told by more than one cabbie in Chicago that they will usually not pick up black men. They say something like, "Those _____ don't pay half the time and will mug you the other half." Besides being ridiculously wrong, its a pretty racist statement. I've also read many stories about racial profiling from cops, as well. (I know this evidence is only anecdotal, but...) My black friends have also told me of many similar instances of such treatment.

That is very sad indeed.

My point is this: while racism (at least overt racism) may be on the decline, the problems that have traditionally accompanied racism are often still present. Until blacks and other minorities are more integrated into "white society" there will continually be an imbalance in quality of life and the ability to receive fair treatment accross the board.

What you are describing sounds more like a financial segregation then a race one. TRUE, the major reason these African-Americans( just an example) in general are the ones in the poorest parts of town does have to do with the problems with race in the past. However I do not think that a Black family with money would have any problems seeking a better house, a better school, or better transportation, and in that case it isn't "racial" segregation at all.

As I said though, I think it's still a problem. I was referring more to the younger population. Do you think that the 20 year olds of today are even near as racist or prone to racist behavior as their parents were/are? It's been a huge jump in my experience.

Tyler

ps
The USA is HUGE. And I'm probably (without proof) living in the least racist part of the country...

[Earendil]

Originally posted by zimv20
if that's how they truly feel, that's great. i don't think that's been everyone's experience.

And I would never claim so. I'm talking about in general I think it has come a long ways in this future generation.

a long time ago, i met this guy, who happened to be black. he proposed an experiment: we walked down the street together. i've never been stared at so much. because he lived in a predominately white area, he said that's what it's like for him all the time.

My uncle got the same thing in our 99.99% white town. But if I were to walk down the street wearing a clown suit people would look at me, and they'd look at you if you were walking with me.

I think they look because it is out of the ordinary. Not because they harbor some hated towards Blacks, and would be less then polite to your friend if he were to ask for, say directions (at least compared to a white man, but we don't ask for directions...).

I do know how predigest and preconceived notions are for people, and I know from first hand experience :mad:

Tyler

[bousozoku]

Racism is not the issue it was 30 or 40 years ago, I assure you, but it is still there.

People aren't able to be quite so overt about it. I never see anyone from a minority group being asked to leave a store because the owner or manager doesn't like "their kind" as I used to have happen. I don't think anyone would dare.

Obviously, after 11 September 2001, there were many attacks against people who looked like some person's idea of a muslim. These people still have to be careful.

Generally, if I hear anything around this area, it's in Spanish and against anyone who isn't hispanic. I suppose this grinds against my thinking that people who live here should be speaking English in the U.S.A., so I speak Japanese to them. :D I guess that makes me a hypocrite.

Understanding and communication with the world has certainly changed things. It used to be that most people got their view of the world from ridiculous films and war broadcasts over the radio. It was easy to hate another race when you didn't know them. It's easy to hate what you don't understand.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by zimv20
do your black, asian and arab friends agree with you?

excuse me while i go order some Freedom Fries.

Dunno. I don't talk to my black, asian and arab friends about racism. I only talk to my black, asian and arab friend about why the operating system is doing what its doing, about what the computer chip is doing, and about why the cad software sucks so much.

In my microcosm of the world, only the performance of their duties matter to me. That, and if they buy drinks for me. :p

[carbonmotion]

:)

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by carbonmotion

...
One time I was walking to my car from the super market and my hands were full of groceries and a black man offered to help me... he was dressed in his phat farm and mecca clothing along with a gold chain and immediate the first though that crossed my mind was "oh **** Im,getting robbed." Even though this occured in the middle of the day with a lot of people around at the entrance of meijers.
...


That makes me really sad because blacks were the caring group when I was young. The whites were the ones always beating me up or telling me where to sit or whatever. :(

[m4rc]

It all depends on where you are. Larger cities people may appear to be less racist because they will walk along the road and not stare at an Asian guy, or an Arabic lady, but this may be because they see so many people of so many races everyday, How they act when they are with theirfriends getting drunk, or if a person from a different race asked them a question, is different. And I mean this in every combination, whether it is a white person in a black neighbourhood or vice versa.

My Step-Son is mixed race. We had loads of trouble and racial aggression towards him and us when we lived in London, we now live in a small (97,000) town, mainly white (97.2%) and we have had only one incident at his school, where the kid concerned was expelled and relocated. I did wonder if we would have more people 'looking' at us as we go about our business, or my friends would change when I introduced my Son to them, but this has just not happened at all. As I said, I had more trouble in a supposedly racial diverse and modern city, but I think many more people just keep quiet about their feelings and beliefs.

Seperate subject, but their is a well documented case of an (Asian?) guy in the UK who sends his CV (resume) to a company for a job as himself - he is a well qualified, well educated guy - and the same CV with a traditional British name and obviosuly slightly changes the details. Basically, the 2 CV's look like two different people, but they both have the same skills, knowledge and education.

More often than not, the fake CV is the one the company would like to interview, and the guy gets a letter saying 'no thanks' for his genuine CV. He then takes the company to Court. He is living off of his court case winnings.

This has caused outrage from both camps, some say he should get a job, some say what he is doing is a good thing. It does show however that racism is not dead, it may not be so prevailant, but it is still there, maybe just better hidden.

Marc

[Taft]

Here's an article from the Chicago Tribune today:


Racist fears linger after radio slurs
Hearings set on firefighter culture

March 3, 2004

By Gary Washburn and Dan Mihalopoulos, Tribune staff reporters. Tribune staff reporter Glenn Jeffers contributed to this report


Nearly five years after outside consultants concluded that an "enormous" racial divide plagued the Chicago Fire Department, city officials are divided over whether recent racial incidents are isolated or clear illustrations that the old problem hasn't been fixed.

But after the third time in less than a month that slurs were broadcast over departmental radio frequencies, concern was evident Tuesday in both camps.


"The fact of the matter is, you do have some racists out there in the Fire Department," said Ald. Isaac Carothers (29th), chairman of the City Council's Police and Fire Committee. "There's no doubt the department has had many, many racial problems in its history, and they're not going away."

Carothers' committee will hold a hearing on Wednesday on the offensive radio transmissions, and the council's Human Relations Committee also will convene a hearing, said Ald. Billy Ocasio (26th), its chairman.

"The culture has changed," asserted Ald. Patrick O'Connor (40th). "The department is becoming younger and younger, and those people coming in today are not the same people working ... who were part of firefighter families that went back generations."

Nevertheless, the department "has to stand up, and not just the brass but the rank and file, and say: `We are not going to tolerate this anymore. We are not going to allow ourselves and our good work to be embarrassed by a couple of knuckleheads.'"

O'Connor is among council members calling for the firing of anyone in the department who utters racial slurs.

The latest remarks were broadcast Monday morning over "fire main," a band used by the department for an area stretching from the Near South Side to the Far North Side, officials said.

The transmission was about seven seconds long, and the caller ticked off pejorative terms for more than half a dozen racial and ethnic groups.

Fire Commissioner James Joyce said that whoever broadcast the list appeared to be "someone thumbing his nose at the fire administration" over a 90-day suspension imposed last week on a firefighter who allegedly made racial slurs on Feb. 2 over an open microphone in a department vehicle.

Radio linked to 1 employee

An identification number that "popped up" with Monday's transmission indicated that the radio used is one of 875 hand-held models in the department's inventory and was assigned to a specific fire company and a particular employee, Joyce said. Investigators on Tuesday were questioning firefighters to determine who made the broadcast, he said.

City officials contend the Fire Department's record on race has improved in recent years despite a checkered history.

The department was not integrated until 1968, and its racial composition is virtually unchanged since 1998.

Of the city's 4,896 firefighters and paramedics at the end of 2003, 68.8 percent were white, 19.4 percent were black, 10.4 percent were Hispanic, .9 percent were Asian-American and less than one-half of one percent were American Indian.

Whites made up 88 of 107 battalion chiefs, 142 of 182 captains and 447 of 594 lieutenants.

According to the 2000 census, the population of Chicago is 36.4 percent black, 31.3 percent white and 26 percent Hispanic.

In 1998 the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission charged that the city's affirmative action efforts had "utterly failed," and that the city discriminated in the hiring and promotion of firefighters.

Among findings of a 1999 consultant's study commissioned by the city was one conclusion that the "racial divide in the department is enormous" and "permeates every aspect of department life ...

"Whether they were white, black or Hispanic, the vast majority" of firefighters interviewed "offered some negative experience involving race relations."

Anger over affirmative action

Some white firefighters contend that affirmative action has advanced minorities who have scored lower on tests and are less qualified for command positions than white colleagues.

"The racial attitude of white guys in the houses is that white guys are getting screwed," said a white member of the department who spoke in return for anonymity. "Their attitude is they are being [passed over] for promotion" because of affirmative action, and "they see that a lot of the big bosses are black."

In late 1997, a videotape of a firehouse retirement party held seven years earlier surfaced. Firefighters were caught on tape drinking, exposing themselves and making racial slurs.

In 1998, six firefighters were suspended for harassing an American Indian colleague.

Capt. Ezra McCann, an African-American firefighter who brought the party videotape to the attention of department officials, charged Tuesday that the city performs "damage control" after racial incidents "and then it's back to business as usual.

"Race relations are low, and that has been the case for years," he said.

But James McNally, president of Local 2 of the Chicago Fire Fighters Union, cautioned against reading too much into the recent radio slurs.

"This certainly is not indicative of a larger problem that some people are making it out to be," he said. "If this is supposed to be an indicator of some inherent type of racism, it certainly isn't supported by actions of our members on a daily basis. ... Every single day the firefighters and paramedics who go to work are dedicated to what they do, and are willing to put their lives at risk in minority communities and in every other community."

McNally has won praise as head of the union, but critics say he carries baggage of his own. He attended the 1990 retirement party and once appeared in black face to protest affirmative action promotions.

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

[2jaded2care]

IMHO, racism begins with the faulty logic that, "if someone looks like me, they are like me". (Of course, this spawns the corollary, "if someone looks like that, they fit my preconceived notion of what that is".) It might seem logical, but experience proves otherwise.

While I like to think myself not racist (being of mixed race myself), I will admit to being "classist" in a sense. I do believe that my middle-class values are preferable to what I consider the lower-class values of certain people. Not talking about blue-collar workers, for example, but rather the people who don't think it's unusual for the police to be called out to their house every month or two to resolve some situation. This goes whether they're white, brown, green or purple.

IOW, I try to judge people as individuals, by their actions, not as a "group".

[Mav451]

2jaded2care - I think you probably have said the best approach, and that is to approach everyone as an individual and judge them on what you know about the person SPECIFICALLY.

Some people may say racism is down, its up, or whatever. The thing is that it varies on the culture of the area. Even in the US, East Coast and West Coast have immensely different cultures. Boston/New England area has its own culture just like the Midwest (e.g. Illinois) will. And how bout the differences between high school and college? Most kids at college are pretty open to talk bout this (that's why I like college compared to high school, alot of open forum on this).

Racism is going to be around forever. The same way people will always base everything on FIRST IMPRESSIONS, people in general will always have a personal bias. Yeah everyone's human, but when we're not comparing humans to aliens, than there's more of a difference.