2008-09 Football Thread - The Second Half [Archive] - Page 5

MacsRgr8

Apr 18, 2009, 03:02 PM

I'd suggest that maybe he's prioritising the Champions League and the domestic League over the FA Cup. Granted, your chances of winning the title are very slim but more pressing is the need to finish at least fourth and guarantee Champions League football next season.

Both Villa and Everton can still potentially overtake you, perhaps he has an eye on that and is ensuring he can field as strong a side as possible in the League?

I understand the importance of finishing in the top 4, but it should be safe enough to have a 100% go at the FA Cup Semi-Final... I mean... COME ONE!!! The FA Cup Semi at Wembley, against Chelsea!
This wasn't the strongest line-up we could offer... :rolleyes:

It's a game of chances:
1) What is the chance we can win the league?
2) What is the chance we can finish 4th?
3) What is the chance we can win the FA Cup?
4) What is the chance we can win the CL?

IMHO, questions 1 an 2 are too close to 0% and 100% to let it influence the outcome of questions 3 and 4.
And, let's be honest.... the real question for us was:
5) What is the chance we can win EITHER the FA Cup OR the CL?
The way this season is going, giving 100% in both these cups (FA and CL) is the only way for us to give us a slight chance in winning something....

Jaffa Cake

Apr 18, 2009, 03:06 PM

I mean... COME ONE!!! The FA Cup Semi at Wembley, against Chelsea!Oh, I agree entirely! The thing is though, quite a few teams have demonstrated that the FA Cup is way down their list of priorities. Unfortunately, we're now in the position where finishing third or fourth seems to be more attractive than winning the FA Cup, due in no small part to the riches the Champions League offers.

It's a sorry situation, it really is.

MacsRgr8

Apr 18, 2009, 03:18 PM

Oh, I agree entirely! The thing is though, quite a few teams have demonstrated that the FA Cup is way down their list of priorities. Unfortunately, we're now in the position where finishing third or fourth seems to be more attractive than winning the FA Cup, due in no small part to the riches the Champions League offers.

It's a sorry situation, it really is.

That's the thing...
Money-wise, you're right. But losing an FA Cup Semi hurts, especially if you feel the line-up wasn't the strongest... :(
If we stay 4th in the PL, and if we don't win the CL, then do we have to admit this was a good season? FA Cup and CL semi's (maybe the Final..)?
Ask any fan.... you'd rather win the FA Cup, and fight a tighter battle to stay 4th, than loose a cup tie with a purposely slightly weakened team, and end up 4th comfortably.

And somehow, when you start to do these things (you know, play careful) the players respond in the same way: Play cautiously when they are sent into action... you don't want that. Always send the best team, when there's something at stake.

Lord Blackadder

Apr 18, 2009, 05:11 PM

Another win for Chelsea...they have an annoying habit of that under Guus (the sooner he returns to Russia the better ;)).

Arsenal still has probably the biggest influence on the league outcome - they are probably going to finish fourth but Everton and Villa still have a chance. But if the Gunners beat Man Utd...well, they'll still win the league, but it will be a bit more interesting.

Gerrard is out for longer than expected, it's a blow but we rely on him too much TBH - hopefully this will give other players an opportunity chance to step it up and show some squad depth.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 18, 2009, 05:18 PM

Gerrard is out for longer than expected, it's a blow but we rely on him too much TBH - hopefully this will give other players an opportunity chance to step it up and show some squad depth.He's apparently a major doubt to face us – given my predictions about us losing to the other teams at the bottom and getting points against the top clubs being correct so far, it seems all the pieces are falling into place.

1-0 to us, I reckon – Carragher own goal. ;)

Lord Blackadder

Apr 18, 2009, 08:06 PM

1-0 to us, I reckon – Carragher own goal. ;)

Hmm, I thought we eliminated the own goal problem when we got rid of Riise. ;)

It won't happen, of course, but I'm looking to see Everton knock Man Utd. out tomorrow.

pachyderm

Apr 19, 2009, 07:36 AM

... http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/predictor/images/players/kilmarnock_player.gif

137 Fuzzy14
10 DumbartonPachyderm

iBecks

Apr 19, 2009, 12:43 PM

Well Done Everton. :D

Lord Blackadder

Apr 19, 2009, 12:47 PM

A good result for the neutral, I didn't want to see two top four teams in the final.

Didn't sound like it was a classic by all accounts. Best of luck to the "other" Liverpool side against Chelsea! ;)

And a big shout out to USA's starting keeper Tim Howard, with two saves in the shootout!

Mitthrawnuruodo

Apr 19, 2009, 01:07 PM

Wow, just one (incredible hard) game away from the first title since 1995.

A good day. :)

Lord Blackadder

Apr 19, 2009, 02:00 PM

Chelsea are going to be a tough opponent, but perhaps the fact that Hiddink still has to think about the league and Champions League will give Everton a little edge. United are still a very good team but are wobbling at the moment, whereas Chelsea have returned to winning ways under Guus.

EDIT: I'm loving the photos of Fergie in an apoplectic fit after the penalty no-call. His head literally looks as if it's going to explode.

MacsRgr8

Apr 19, 2009, 02:29 PM

Didn't sound like it was a classic by all accounts. Best of luck to the "other" Liverpool side against Chelsea! ;)

You mean against the "other" London side... :p

Jaffa Cake

Apr 19, 2009, 02:33 PM

EDIT: I'm loving the photos of Fergie in an apoplectic fit after the penalty no-call. His head literally looks as if it's going to explode.Indeed. With Mr M Riley (West Yorks) as the man in the middle, you would have had it down as a stonewall penalty...

XIII

Apr 19, 2009, 04:35 PM

I think Wenger got it wrong, this was probably our only chance at silverware and he fielded a weak side. When you practically have no defence you need your strongest midfield players on the pitch. Why didn't Nasri, Arshavin & Song start?...surely he's not protecting them for the liverpool match on...does he still think he can win the league?!

Diaby, Ade, Silvestre & Fabianski might as well have stayed home. Gutted but credit to Chelsea and i really fear for our tie against Man Utd now and more importantly hope we don't lose players again this summer

A bit of clearing up maybe. It wasn't really a weak side.

Defense wise, Fabianski Gibbs Silvestre Toure Eboue is basically all we had, so that wasn't debatable. The problem is Fabianski was ****, Eboue isn't brilliant defensively, ditto for Gibbs, and Silvestre is totally crap - not to mention hideously slow.

For the United games in the CL I think the priority has to be to get rid of Silvestre at CB as that is where we are being horribly shown up (and in goal, but there's nothing we can do there). Song can play CB, I'd probably be happier with him there - or Sagna if he recovers in time. I'm just desperately hoping that some miracle will happen and somehow some of Almunia/Clichy/Djourou/Sagna will be fit for the United CL games. Gallas is beyond miracle wishes. Ugh, its a mess. The rest can be perfect, but with that defense, I'm afraid we're a bit ****ed against United, or Chelsea, or anyone decent.

Midfield yesterday was a bit odd, the general consesus is that apparently Nasri was feeling weak or something? And Arsene chose to start attackingly with Walcott Ade and RvP - not Arshavin. He put Diaby in to add some strength to the midfield. Diaby was unfortunately ****. Song shouldn't have been rested I think, Denilson had a bad game too. Adebayor tends to have **** games but score so that's forgotten, see Wednesday.. yesterday he didn't score.

Uggghhhh I hope something changes before the CL games, everything is on those (and finishing fourth but that SHOULD be okay now).

Jaffa Cake

Apr 19, 2009, 04:49 PM

It might not exactly be the ideal situation, but aren't there any promising youngsters on the cusp of the first team who could be drafted in?

Lord Blackadder

Apr 19, 2009, 11:24 PM

Indeed. With Mr M Riley (West Yorks) as the man in the middle, you would have had it down as a stonewall penalty...

Apparently even Moyes thought it could have been a penalty. Well Alex, you win some, you lose some.

Uggghhhh I hope something changes before the CL games, everything is on those (and finishing fourth but that SHOULD be okay now).

Arsenal is still pretty suspect at the back IMO, and I expect United to exploit that. But you still have a world class attack, one that is capable of knocking goals past United's best on the day. I'm expecting a higher scoring pair of ties as a result. I think Arsenal can get it done in the semis though.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 07:02 AM

Hmm.

It seems that a plan to expand the English Premier League (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8006934.stm) is going to be discussed by the current set of club chairmen later in the week. Essentially, the proposal is for a two-tier Premier League consisting of 18 clubs each, with only a single spot at the foot of the second tier available for promotion from and relegation to the Football League. A salary cap could also be incorporated into the new system.

It seems that the main objective would be to insulate the middish-level clubs against relegation to the Championship, and the loss of revenue that entails. However, the aspect of the proposal that really sticks out is that Scottish giants Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join.

So, what do we all think - an exciting evolution of our domestic leagues, or the latest cynical attempt to keep the cash at the top level while pulling up the ladder to Football League clubs? Personally, I'm with the latter opinion.

Fuzzy - I'd be particularly interested to hear a Scottish perspective on this.

politickle

Apr 20, 2009, 07:10 AM

The top teams in the Premier League will reject it, so it is a non-starter. Simply will not happen.

BoyBach

Apr 20, 2009, 07:14 AM

...or the latest cynical attempt to keep the cash at the top level while pulling up the ladder to Football League clubs?

Sadly, there's your answer. No doubt that even more TV rights would be sold to yet another PPV TV station all in the name of giving football fans even more "choice". :rolleyes:

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 07:21 AM

The top teams in the Premier League will reject it, so it is a non-starter. Simply will not happen.Indeed, it's highly unlikely that the big four clubs will agree to a move that could potentially weaken their domestic dominance and income. The question is if the mid-tablers can get enough support from other clubs to push things along. Of course, even if the majority of clubs agree then the plan will need the green light from the English and Scottish authorities, and I'd like to see what the Scottish FA have to say about it!

I'm doubtful it'll go any further than discussion, but stranger things have happened...

politickle

Apr 20, 2009, 07:35 AM

Indeed, it's highly unlikely that the big four clubs will agree to a move that could potentially weaken their domestic dominance and income. The question is if the mid-tablers can get enough support from other clubs to push things along. Of course, even if the majority of clubs agree then the plan will need the green light from the English and Scottish authorities, and I'd like to see what the Scottish FA have to say about it!

I'm doubtful it'll go any further than discussion, but stranger things have happened...

I'd be blown away if it happened. I'd imagine the top clubs would boycott the league in favor of some super league.

daneoni

Apr 20, 2009, 09:11 AM

This just gets better and better. Now the two main strikers RVP/Ade won't be making the Anfield trip. Well at least Eduardo is set to return as is Sagna.

XIII

Apr 20, 2009, 10:42 AM

It might not exactly be the ideal situation, but aren't there any promising youngsters on the cusp of the first team who could be drafted in?

Well apparently not. Gibbs is that promising youngster. I'd prefer an unknown 18 year old to Silvestre to be honest.

Sagna is fit which is good. Now in my opinion the best back 4 we can play has to be:

Gibbs - Song - Toure - Sagna

The problem being Song - Fabregas has worked well in the middle, and Denilson - Fabregas doesn't seem to. Only other option then might be:

Gibbs - Sagna - Toure - Eboue

I can remember a Carling Cup game where Sagna played CB and was pretty decent. He's a top defender. But then the problem here is Eboue at RB is suspect, and even if Sagna adapts it's not ideal in the centre. Song filled in well there last season, and I think he might even play CB for his national team? He certainly has played there a fair bit before.

Unfortunately all I can imagine happening is:

Gibbs - Silvestre - Toure - Sagna :(

Pleasee not Silvestre.

This just gets better and better. Now the two main strikers RVP/Ade won't be making the Anfield trip. Well at least Eduardo is set to return as is Sagna.

I think if this was a CL semi final, Ade and RvP would both be making the trip. The league is a little bit safer now and I think Arsene believes he can afford to rotate and not risk anyone who's got a slight injury. I imagine Bendtner will start, which sort of signals our intent for the game. And Arsene has hinted Sagna won't start as he's not totally ready, so I imagine the same defense as Saturday. Which all points to a not very convincing performance/loss.. not the end of the world I guess.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 10:50 AM

Song filled in well there last season, and I think he might even play CB for his national team? He certainly has played there a fair bit before.I think he played at centre back in last year's African Cup of Nations. Might be wrong, though.

A bit of a headscratcher for Wenger, me thinks.

politickle

Apr 20, 2009, 11:18 AM

Watching Fernando Torres against Mikael Silvestre might be akin to watching a sporty version of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. At least Arsenal only have to deal with Yossi Benayoun instead of Steven Gerrard.

I think Arshavin could cause a bit of trouble to Liverpool, though.

daneoni

Apr 20, 2009, 12:06 PM

Silvestre is past it, Wenger needs to face that reality and buy a decent CB this summer. A holding midfielder won't be a bad addition either. We have no depth whatsoever and it been showing for the past 2 seasons. Eboue is more of a winger than a RB. I also think Bedtner is subpar...can't score to save his life, i'm surprised Wenger doesn't field Vela a lot more than he does...im surprised by wenger period

Hopefully Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri & Eduardo can do something tomorrow, unlikely to be enough but one can still hope

Prediction...albeit a pessimistic one: Arsenal finish 4th and no silverware...again

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 12:55 PM

Silvestre is past it, Wenger needs to face that reality and buy a decent CB this summer.Arsenal are one of the clubs reckoned to be keeping tabs on Michael Turner. I expect that we'll be receiving offers for him this summer, moreso if we are relegated.

daneoni

Apr 20, 2009, 02:46 PM

Arsenal are one of the clubs reckoned to be keeping tabs on Michael Turner. I expect that we'll be receiving offers for him this summer, moreso if we are relegated.

Sounds good because we need to update that backline

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 02:49 PM

Sounds good...Not so much from our point of view. We loves us some Michael Turner.

gauchogolfer

Apr 20, 2009, 03:49 PM

Well apparently not. Gibbs is that promising youngster. I'd prefer an unknown 18 year old to Silvestre to be honest.

Sagna is fit which is good. Now in my opinion the best back 4 we can play has to be:

Gibbs - Song - Toure - Sagna

The problem being Song - Fabregas has worked well in the middle, and Denilson - Fabregas doesn't seem to. Only other option then might be:

Gibbs - Sagna - Toure - Eboue

Sadly, Arsenal have just announced that Gibbs is also unavailable this week due to a groin injury. Here's hoping for Sagna's speedy recovery!

Update: OK, now Arsene is saying he's 'concerned' about Gibbs, and hasn't ruled him out yet..

Fuzzy14

Apr 20, 2009, 05:06 PM

137 Fuzzy14
10 DumbartonPachyderm

Yes well done, you bet the local boy this week (1 measly point).

As for the Premier League 2... news outlets up here not hyping it up this time, most of the stories are regarding the end of year league split where the top teams have to play each other again. I'm pretty sure the league thing won't happen this time (again) but a few interesting developments.

It's been instigated by an English team
UEFA said they won't oppose it, indeed they now seem to regard the Scotland/England situation differently than they would Holland/Germany or Spain/Portugal.

The other thing is what happens to SPL2 currently being discussed, and also what happens to the teams in Scotland? I think what will happen is a 2nd tier team still plays in the Scottish league (as Celtic currently propose with a 2nd Celtic team in the lower leagues.) If anything, this would make the Scottish league more competitive.

As for the big teams EPL not liking it... what league is going to reject the sudden injection of two teams with a combined season ticket membership of 120,000? And think of the Irish TV money the EPL would suddenly attract.

However like I say, maybe not this time but there are a few precedents and something will happen eventually.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 05:14 PM

As for the big teams EPL not liking it... what league is going to reject the sudden injection of two teams with a combined season ticket membership of 120,000? And think of the Irish TV money the EPL would suddenly attract.I think their worry would be that the TV money that is now split between 20 clubs would be split between 36, at least until the deals are renegotiated. It also raises the issue of Champions League qualification (and revenue) – at the moment, the big four in England and the Old Firm in Scotland are all but guaranteed Champions League football, but six places aren't going to be available in a revised Premier League. Some of the big boys would have to miss out, and they wouldn't be happy at that.

However, it's all a moot point because apparently the proposal is now off the table. So, it looks like we won't have to do anything extreme like forming our own MacRumors AFC Wimbledon/FC United-esque club in protest. A pity, because the shirt we'd have to wear to keep everyone happy – blue, red and amber stripes with white sleeves – would have looked gorgeous. :p

It's been instigated by an English teamIndeed – by Bolton Chairman Phil Gartside, no less. I wonder if he'd still be as keen on this idea if if Bolton were still languishing in the lower leagues, playing in a decrepit Burnden Park?

Fuzzy14

Apr 20, 2009, 05:24 PM

The thing that made me laugh was that this used to be the English Premier League thread, but you kept posting before Hull joined, and I kept posting before the Old Firm joined.... it was looking good for Markleshark!:D

Lord Blackadder

Apr 20, 2009, 09:26 PM

So, what do we all think - an exciting evolution of our domestic leagues, or the latest cynical attempt to keep the cash at the top level while pulling up the ladder to Football League clubs? Personally, I'm with the latter opinion.

I like the idea of a salary cap, but it won't work unless it's Europe-wide. I don't like the fact that this proposal would really lock in teams at the top, and the rest of the football league would drift farther away from the spotlight and revenue.

Watching Fernando Torres against Mikael Silvestre might be akin to watching a sporty version of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. At least Arsenal only have to deal with Yossi Benayoun instead of Steven Gerrard.

I think Arshavin could cause a bit of trouble to Liverpool, though.

Liverpool will have a better defense to work with, so Arsenal will want to play aggressive and try to get an early score. I expect Arshavin to be a big threat.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 20, 2009, 09:35 PM

I don't recall Brown's injury status or when he's due back -- would be helpful to have that back line all together again.Apparently, he played an hour for the reserves yesterday - so a return to the first team might not be that far off...

Silencio

Apr 21, 2009, 12:56 PM

Apparently, he played an hour for the reserves yesterday - so a return to the first team might not be that far off...

Yeah, I did read that he returned to training last week. Wonder how quickly he can get fit enough to make a contribution. Would be very helpful to have the entire back line together again and defending the way they were just a few months ago.

pivo6

Apr 21, 2009, 03:53 PM

Who says Arsenal need defenders. All the need is for Arshavin to score 4 every game. Of course as I am typing, Benayoun just tied it up.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 21, 2009, 03:56 PM

Wasn't a bad match, that.

Hopefully Liverpool have tired themselves out a bit for the weekend...

daneoni

Apr 21, 2009, 04:01 PM

Safe to say we could've have won. Sheesh...some defense. What about Arshavin...come on!!!

BoyBach

Apr 21, 2009, 04:19 PM

Erm, is there any way of allowing Liverpool to only play on Tuesday nights!?

Arsenal couldn't defend for toffee, luckily neither could Liverpool which made for a thoroughly entertaining match.

XIII

Apr 21, 2009, 05:15 PM

Shocking defending.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 21, 2009, 06:41 PM

So, that's eight goals Liverpool have conceded in their last two games. With the Scouser's apparent defensive shakiness, I can't see how we'll fail to score against them on Saturday.

Ah, yes – I remember now. We can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. :o

daneoni

Apr 21, 2009, 07:05 PM

...Ah, yes – I remember now. We can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo. :o

That literally made me LOL

Lord Blackadder

Apr 21, 2009, 08:41 PM

That was not supposed to happen. Arsenal proved a bit shaky at the back, which wasn't a huge shock given the absences, but Liverpool's back four have some questions to answer themselves. I have to think that whatever glimmer of hope we had for the title must now be snuffed out, unless Man Utd. choke spectacularly.

XIII

Apr 22, 2009, 03:27 AM

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Syug7GfP98) was my favourite Arshavin goal, after we looked a bit dead having lost the lead and gone 2-1 down.. :)

Jaffa Cake

Apr 22, 2009, 03:37 AM

Have I read right that's six goals and five assists in eight league games? Not a bad return for the diminutive Russian, that.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 22, 2009, 05:02 PM

The word is that Roy Keane will be appointed the new boss of Ipswich Town tomorrow, after they parted company with Jim Magilton earlier today...

Silencio

Apr 23, 2009, 01:49 AM

It's not easy being a defender on a top Premiership team these days: both Gary Neville and John O'Shea went down to injury in Man Utd's win against Portsmouth yesterday and will miss a couple of weeks apiece.

Champions League and Premier League titles look like they're both becoming battles of attrition at this point. Not the way I'd prefer to see things go down, but injuries are a part of the sport...

iBecks

Apr 23, 2009, 02:36 AM

Jaffa Cake

Apr 23, 2009, 02:59 AM

Spot on with your rumourI don't divulge my sources. ;)

<taps side of nose mysteriously>

pivo6

Apr 23, 2009, 06:26 AM

The word is that Roy Keane will be appointed the new boss of Ipswich Town tomorrow, after they parted company with Jim Magilton earlier today...

Spot on with your rumour

BBC Link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/i/ipswich_town/8013572.stm)

It looks like Keano will actually move closer to Ipswich, which is a good thing since I think commuting from Cheshire would get old in a hurry. Maybe the Ipswich area is a little nicer than Sunderland?

Jaffa Cake

Apr 23, 2009, 02:28 PM

Meanwhile, Southampton are in bother – they've been docked 10 points (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8014811.stm) for financial naughtiness.

If they are relegated then the points will be deducted from next season's tally, if they stay up they'll be taken off their total for this campaign. Either way, it's going to be League One football on the Solent next season.

iBecks

Apr 24, 2009, 02:27 AM

Jaffa Cake

Apr 24, 2009, 06:10 AM

Damn, this might help Forest stay up. :mad:On the plus side, if Forest do stay up I'll have the chance to go to see City play at the City Ground next season – I've not been there for a few years.

No, think positive – we're staying up! :D

I take it you're a Magpie then?

iBecks

Apr 24, 2009, 06:16 AM

On the plus side, if Forest do stay up I'll have the chance to go to see City play at the City Ground next season – I've not been there for a few years.

No, think positive – we're staying up! :D

I take it you're a Magpie then?

Yes for my sins, it has certainly been a long season and although we are safe it hasn't been a season of progress.

If things don't improve by October I think it may be time to get a new man in charge.

If you do end up playing the tricky trees next year, just think of it as 6 easy points. :D

pachyderm

Apr 24, 2009, 07:52 AM

Fuzzy14 137
DumbartonPachyderm 11

Jaffa Cake

Apr 24, 2009, 08:28 AM

Lord Blackadder

Apr 24, 2009, 11:44 AM

I love that photo of Fabregas; with the snazzy black jacket and hairdo he looks like John Travolta in Grease.

Question for you Jaffa: I have heard pundits on several podcasts tracing Hull City's troubled form back to your gaffer's unusual on-the-pitch half time talk against Man City. I think it sounds pretty silly myself, but do you think that that incident might have been the beginning of morale/dressing room problems for the Tigers?

Best of luck on the weekend!

Jaffa Cake

Apr 24, 2009, 02:28 PM

Question for you Jaffa...Yes, it's been mentioned a lot that this was the start of our problems, in fact BV mentioned she'd heard a lot of similar opinions a while back.

The general feeling among City supporters though is that the Manchester City team talk didn't have the drastic effect the pundits seem to think. It was a very visible and high profile incident, and I think that the media are showing their usual laziness in just blaming things on that – you wouldn't expect them to actually take the time to look into the matter deeper and work out if there could be any other reasons.

I think it's wrong to say that Brown has totally lost the dressing room off the back of it – to do so ignores a number of facts...

After our fantastic start, things had started to slow down for us after the home loss to Chelsea at the start of October. We had still been picking up points though, so it wasn't really panic stations.
Arguably our most abject performance of the season came before half-time at Eastlands – quite literally, it was the first half against Manchester City!
The next match was against Aston Villa, and the team played very well – we were very unfortunate not to get anything out of that one.
We went on a poor run of form until we beat Fulham – and at the final whistle the players flocked to the dugout to celebrate the win with their manager. Not the reaction of a group of players who have serious problems with him, I feel.

Another common cry from the pundits is that we've 'been found out' and that we aren't able to take teams by surprise any more. I don't think this has been a huge problem – granted, teams did under estimate us at the state of the season but to say that they were totally unprepared for us suggests that the likes of Arsene Wenger and Rafa Benitez don't scout and analyse their opposition. This patently isn't the case.

However, it's fair so say that things haven't been going well for Brown – he's made some baffling team selections, and his tactics and formations have lacked the daring and verve that served us so well in the opening months of the season. Many City supporters pinpoint our home match against Sunderland as the start of this – the match before the Manchester City game, so again this can't be blamed on that team talk. As a friend of mine eloquently put it, "Brownie lost his bollocks against Sunderland – big time". So, let's look at potential reasons why things went so wrong for us from Sunderland onwards.

It's fair to say confidence has been an issue – it's common for teams to hit a poor run of form and doubts to start entering heads. The other side of the coin is of course when confidence is high teams can punch above their weight, as we ourselves did. But this is only part of the problem.

I think a massive reason is the January transfer window. We lost Marlon King – not necessarily a bad thing as he was a serious problem in the dressing room – but the major crime is that we didn't replace him with someone of sufficient quality.

We made three signings in January – Bullard, whose injury problem has been well documented, Manucho on loan from Manchester United, who has failed to live up to the standards set by the boy Campbell last season, and Kevin Kilbane who has been solid enough for us, but as a defender come midfielder he's not going to solve our problems in front of goal. One only has to look at Stoke City and their astute acquisitions to see that we were really poor with our transfer dealings. Tony Pulis – despite being a baseball cap wearing buffoon – identified the weaknesses in his squad and took steps to resolve them. We didn't, and in my opinion our poor recruitment is the key reason why we've done so poorly since Christmas.

But I think there may also be another factor – and it's a bit of a left-of-field one this. It might play a part, it may have nothing to do with it – I don't know. But the other night I was mulling over our plight, and something occurred to me. When we were doing great last season, and at the start of this one, there was a regular face at the KC. That face belonged to Sam Allardyce.

He's Brown's mentor, and it's common knowledge that our manager likes to bounce ideas off him. They talk in great detail about what Brown's doing, about tactics and signings and stuff. Indeed, he's been in our changing room before and after quite a few games, most notably the play-off final at Wembley last season. There was even talk of Allardyce taking on a 'Director of Football' role at one point. As I say, Brown's tactics and selections have lacked confidence and daring of late – could this be because he's having to fend for himself now, without Big Sam's advice and reassurance? Certainly, he's not likely to offer Brown the same level of support when he's managing a club in the same division, a potential relegation rival.

This could explain – in part at least – why Brown seems to have lost the plot a bit, why despite the bluster and attempts at mind games he's seemingly lacking confidence in himself. Put simply, perhaps he feels a bit out of his depth without the guidance and approval of his close friend and mentor.

So, how far back does this go? I suppose you could suggest this would have started once Allardyce took over at Blackburn Rovers – he was appointed as their new manager on last December, on the 17th to be precise.

We played Sunderland three days later...

Lord Blackadder

Apr 24, 2009, 03:40 PM

Well said. Sounds like a good breakdown on the situation...the press have said lots of silly things about the promoted clubs this season. Lets not forget that football punditry collectively gave Hull City and Stoke City zero chance of staying up, preferring West Brom. Well, it looks as if the tables have turned....

Jaffa Cake

Apr 24, 2009, 03:47 PM

Well said. Sounds like a good breakdown on the situation...Would a simple yes/no have done you? :o

Lord Blackadder

Apr 24, 2009, 03:54 PM

Would a simple yes/no have done you? :o

Actually, I was hoping more for a why, which you provided in spades. ;)

Fuzzy14

Apr 24, 2009, 05:55 PM

Fuzzy14 137
DumbartonPachyderm 11

Yes yes yes you've done a lot better than me (since 2 weeks ago when we started.) No league games in Scotland this weekend, it's Cup Time. I'll send you a bottle of single malt (SCOTCH!:)) if you've done better than me by season end. BTW, why Dumbarton? Any coincidence there is an elephant in teh Sons of teh Rock logo?
http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/images/head_right_08.jpg

a lot of words

****** me am I meant to read all that? I'm just back from a night out and a wee bit worse for wear. In fact, what am I even doing drunk posting on MR? That's a lot of words for me to read. Can you sumarise it for the lazy/drunk? i.e. a lot of you (Kingston people) are a bit annoyed with Brown due to recent results but teh rest are happy that you are there in the first place.

sh! why did I have those Red Bulls I'm never going to sleep tonight and that satan child of mine will be up at 6am BST. Oh look teh golf is on Setanta.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 24, 2009, 07:14 PM

Can you sumarise it for the lazy/drunk?It's nowt to do with that team talk, we just didn't buy any good, fit players and Phil's feeling a bit lonely.

There you go. ;)

Fuzzy14

Apr 25, 2009, 03:38 AM

Oh, God, God, God! What on earth was I drinking last night? My head feels like there's a Frenchman living in it.:rolleyes:

mouchoir

Apr 25, 2009, 04:07 AM

Jaffa Cake

Apr 25, 2009, 05:31 AM

I was under the impression that Brown going on and on about the alleged spitting (I suppose the media did roll with it too) was just to divert the attention from his teams poor run of form?It's not something that he's really discussed since the days following the event as far as I'm aware – it's been brought up a few times by the press, his response has been that the matter is in the hands of the FA and as such he's not in a position to discuss it any further.

Of course, there's always the possibility that by attracting media attention onto himself – and it's been highly negative of late – he's trying to insulate the players from press criticism. Sir Alex Ferguson did something slightly similar earlier in the season when he came embroiled in a war of words with Rafa Benitez, ensuring his players weren't under the spotlight ahead of a crucial match. However what Brown is doing is a risky strategy as the press have no qualms about trying to make him look foolish, and he's nowhere near as good at the mind game stuff as Fergie.

Today's Guardian has an interesting interview with Brown (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/24/phil-brown-hull-city) – discussing where things have gone wrong this season, naturally Eastlands gets a mention but he's dismissive that the team talk is the root of the problems...

"I'm facing the problems suffered by anyone who does a good job for a while and gets put up on a pedestal," he reflected ahead of today's crucial home game against Liverpool. "We're receiving slightly the wrong kind of press now, but we've won only two games out of 24 and I'm there to be knocked down. I enjoyed it when we were doing well so I understand the deal. We're playing with the big boys on the big stage. I've got to get on with it."

Half-time diatribes are rarely delivered on stages as public and prominent as the Eastlands pitch but Brown, whose side were trailing 4-0, remains unrepentant. "It certainly wasn't a red-mist decision and it got a response," he insisted. "I'm not sure what the difference between a pre-meditated and a knee-jerk decision is but the idea came about the time City's third goal went in. I don't regret it."

Nonetheless, one suspects this stunt will not be repeated. Although the game finished 5–1 to City after an improved *second-half performance, the longer-term legacy involved a blow to dressing-room morale which a February bonding trip to Dubai did not quite repair. While certain players, such as Nick Barmby, kept faith with the undeniably tactically articulate Brown, others were less enamoured and one recently confided: "Some of the lads thought the manager had gone mad at Manchester City."

Whatever his reasoning, the incident left Brown newly vulnerable to criticism. Behaviour which had previously been interpreted as charmingly idiosyncratic was now regarded as irritatingly naff. Suddenly everyone was taking pot shots and even Piers Morgan got in on the act, devoting his newspaper column to a scathing deconstruction of the 49-year‑old's suntan and distinctive sartorial style. "Ah, Piers Morgan," said Brown. "Well, let's say I've got my Christmas card list. And I've never been on a sunbed in my entire life. It's just that I take the rays very easily."

They've also got a sports psychologist to analyse Brown's approach. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/apr/24/phil-brown-hull-city-mind-games) The boffin descibes Brown as an alpha male. Grrr. :p

politickle

Apr 25, 2009, 08:11 AM

Bolton W. ? - ? Aston Villa
Everton ? - ? Manchester C.
Fulham ? - ? Stoke C.
Hull C. ? - ? Liverpool
West Brom ? - ? Sunderland
West Ham ? - ? Chelsea
Man U. ? - ? Tottenham H.

Today's game. Liverpool need Spurs to do something at Old Trafford to have any chance of getting back into the title race.

XIII

Apr 25, 2009, 08:37 AM

Meanwhile, Phil Brown and Cesc Fabregas have been charged by the FA (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/fa_cup/8016780.stm) for the aftermath of the Arsenal vs City FA Cup tie. Brown being charged due to the comments he made about the officials was to be expected, but it seems that the evidence Hull City submitted proves the Arsenal captain did indeed spit at Brian Horton in the players tunnel, despite his claims to the contrary...

Well no.

Fabregas faces two charges of improper conduct relating to his conduct on the pitch following the game. One charge concerns his behaviour in coming onto the pitch after the final whistle, the second charge relates to an alleged spitting incident. The charges are based on submissions from Hull City and video evidence.

"Alleged spitting incident". The video evidence must relate to him coming onto the pitch after the final whistle, as you can be sure if there was any video evidence of the spitting whatsoever it would be all over the internet by now. The FA apparently have confirmed this view. I don't quite see what he did wrong coming onto the pitch, but I'm sure the FA will find something to throw at him about that. The spitting incident remains completely unproven and alleged.

Also, read this (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11670_5236428,00.html).

Lord Blackadder

Apr 25, 2009, 09:49 AM

Oh, God, God, God! What on earth was I drinking last night? My head feels like there's a Frenchman living in it.:rolleyes:

Indeed! You must have been drinking my incredibly strong ale. :D

I've never been on a sunbed in my entire life. It's just that I take the rays very easily."

It is a rather unusual look; I myself (an American mongrel) tan like Phil Brown, but most of you Englishmen are whiter than ghosts.

"Alleged spitting incident". The video evidence must relate to him coming onto the pitch after the final whistle, as you can be sure if there was any video evidence of the spitting whatsoever it would be all over the internet by now.

I agree - if the FA actually had video evidence of Cesc spitting on someone, you could be certain that they would have probably already taken action. He was smart enough to do it in the tunnel (allegedly, of course ;)), so it's going to be his word against Brown's.

I'm hoping Spurs get something done against United today; I'd be pretty happy with a draw. But Arsenal are probably still going to decide the title. They broke our hearts in 1989, now it's time to spread the love to United's camp and ruin their campaign. Pretty please? :D

Jaffa Cake

Apr 25, 2009, 10:05 AM

I must confess to being a little confused - the noises in the media indicated that the alledged incident took place in the section of the tunnel not covered by the CCTV cameras. Indeed, Arsene's comments are the first I've heard of the existence of any such footage.

Which raises the question - if Arsenal are in possession of footage which completely exhonorates their captain, why wasn't it submitted to the FA when they were asked for their version of events?

Lord Blackadder

Apr 25, 2009, 10:23 AM

Which raises the question - if Arsenal are in possession of footage which completely exhonorates their captain, why wasn't it submitted to the FA when they were asked for their version of events?

That is a bit odd. The question is, where did the video come from? Maybe it didn't surface until now. Well, if the FA have it now, it's up to them to decide. Hopefully it doesn't affect Cesc's ability to appear against United so they can ruin their title campaign.

I'm suddenly a big Gunners supporter. :)

xUKHCx

Apr 25, 2009, 01:18 PM

Jumping in here as there are a lot of comments to catch up on and I don't have time to read/respond today about those however

Howard Webb totally gave the game to United with that penalty decision. It was a polar opposite game before that but when United got the penalty it gave them the hope that they needed to get into the game.

daneoni

Apr 25, 2009, 05:57 PM

Yet again United gets the luck card and it could be argued Howard Webb pretty much handed the title to them

Lord Blackadder

Apr 26, 2009, 12:43 AM

Well, if there's any team that's going to get the luck, it's going to be United. <Sigh>

As a Liverpool supporter, one thing I can at least take heart in is doing the double over both United and Chelsea in the league; if we could just manage the Stokes and Middlesbroughs we would have waltzed to the title this season.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 26, 2009, 02:47 PM

Well, that went better than I dared to hope. I thought we might have been on the receiving end of a thumping but we put in a great performance (despite apparently having a terrible pitch, Rafa) against a Liverpool side who were nowhere near their best. Play like that in all our remaining fixtures and we should be fine. Unfortunately, we won't play like that in all our remaining fixtures. :o

One thing that struck me about Liverpool yesterday – they gave away a number of totally needless corners, Skrtel being the major culprit. There were a few balls that were going safely out for goalkicks that he got his head to and put out for a corner. Given that our major threat in a match like this was liable to be set pieces (and we're not that bad at them either) it could have proved costly, and certainly put him and his team mates under further and quite needless pressure. I don't know if this is a regular thing with him or not, or if he was just having an off day, but if so it's an aspect of his game that might need to be addressed.

As an aside... I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed in my life, Part 5. (http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/news/Singing-cabbie-roar-Tigers/article-936112-detail/article.html) Cringeworthy stuff. :o

xUKHCx

Apr 26, 2009, 03:06 PM

Skrtel did look a tad dodgy. It lost his confidence that game which resulted in lots of corners. Which considering how leaky Liverpool are from corners it could've been quite bad.

Do you think Folan was taking tips from Pepe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOeSAsELyAA)

I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed in my life, Part 5. (http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/news/Singing-cabbie-roar-Tigers/article-936112-detail/article.html)

Then perhaps you shouldn't have gone to the papers :p

Jaffa Cake

Apr 26, 2009, 03:14 PM

Then perhaps you shouldn't have gone to the papers :pI believe the Hull City chairman has had a sign saying this put up in Phil Brown's office. :D

Do you think Folan was taking tips from Pepe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOeSAsELyAA)I certainly don't know what he was thinking, but it was utter stupidity on Folan's part. It happened at the opposite end of the ground from where we sit so I didn't have the best view, but the red card suggested to me he'd either kicked or stamped on Skrtel – the former was confirmed when we got back to the car and the match was being discussed on the radio.

What Folan should have done was stand well off Skrtel and let him win the ball – he'd have most likely put it out for a corner... ;)

Lord Blackadder

Apr 26, 2009, 11:56 PM

One thing that struck me about Liverpool yesterday – they gave away a number of totally needless corners, Skrtel being the major culprit. There were a few balls that were going safely out for goalkicks that he got his head to and put out for a corner.

It seems to me that Skrtel has been off form since his iffy performance against England on international duty. He seems short on confidence. One thing is for sure, Liverpool's defense is looking a little shaky as of late.

As an aside... I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed in my life, Part 5. (http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/news/Singing-cabbie-roar-Tigers/article-936112-detail/article.html) Cringeworthy stuff. :o

Well, I suppose you can't fault his enthusiasm?... :o

Do you think Folan was taking tips from Pepe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOeSAsELyAA)

Horrible. Possibly the worst part is that Casquero took a terrible penalty after that which was saved, and Real went on to what I think was a totally undeserved win. I have no idea what Pepe was thinking, but that was a Joey-Barton level of violence. Casquero went down a little easily, but Pepe did push him and then simply went haywire. Hopefully he will get a nice long ban plus fines from both league and club.

...BTW, Giggs would not be my choice for the PFA award, unless it is for a "lifetime achievement" sort of thing. He played well this season for a top club (THE top club in England, as much as I hate to say it), but was he really the best player in the Premier league this season? I'm not so sure.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 27, 2009, 01:29 AM

I think the Giggs award smacks a bit of sentimentality. Granted, he's been a fantastic player throughout his career and his medal collection can't be argued with - but giving the award to a player who has made only 12 League starts this campaign? Not the right decision, in my opinion.

Fuzzy14

Apr 27, 2009, 07:01 AM

Here's a wee anomoly for you to demonstrate cup runs and the oddity of the way they give out European places.

Rangers booked their place in the Scottish Cup final at the weekend, as did Falkirk. With Rangers likely to be playing Champions league next season, Falkirk will get a place in the new UEFA Cup (Europa League) regardless if they win or loose the SFA Cup. Falkirk also look likely to go down this year, so this means our UEFA Cup competitors for the last 3 years have not been from the top flight (Falkirk, Queen of the South and Gretna.) Just goes to show the 'romance of the cup' idea!

It's the rules when the season started, so I'm not complaining but the likes of Hearts, Aberdeen or Dundee Utd will feel a bit left out if they just miss out.

aloofman

Apr 27, 2009, 11:16 AM

I'm hoping Spurs get something done against United today; I'd be pretty happy with a draw.

They did. In the first half. Followed by a collapse of epic proportions. :eek:

Jaffa Cake

Apr 27, 2009, 11:28 AM

Pah – we've been on a collapse of epic proportions since Christmas. You Spurs types are rank amateurs in comparison.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 28, 2009, 05:56 AM

This morning's big football news – Brown has left Hull City! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leicester_city/8022294.stm) :eek:

That'll be snail-paced centre back Wayne Brown, not golden-glowing gaffer Phil Brown, by the way.

iBecks

Apr 28, 2009, 06:03 AM

Jaffa Cake

Apr 28, 2009, 06:35 AM

Lol, I didn't see the small print until after.Clearly, iBecks needs some iSpecs. ;)

daneoni

Apr 28, 2009, 06:35 AM

MacBoobsPro

Apr 28, 2009, 07:04 AM

Today is D-day, i cannot wait for the match. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint. I'm not convinced of *****gwa to be honest, isn't match fit and coming back from an injury whilst the 'little god' is on form.

Messi on the right & Henry on the left + that deadly mid-field. Suffice it to say Chelsea have their work cut out for them

I'm quietly confident Barça can pull off a decent result tonight. It doesnt matter who plays at left back as Messi will be all over the pitch and if you man mark him then Etoo, Henry and Iniesta will kick your teef in. :D

Because the attacking line is so dangerous you have to zonal mark Barça but then that plays to their advantage because they love to drag the opposition around and then strike quickly.

To beat Barça you need to REALLY pressure them when on the ball. Easier said than done when Xavi and Iniesta play in slow motion and hardly ever lose the ball.

The 2006 Barça team was fantastic but this season they are absolutely amazing. When they go 1-0 down (which is rare) the feeling is usually 'oh well its just a matter of time before we score 2' and invariably they do.

By the way they are averaging over 3 goals a game even at this late stage of the season. 134 goals (in all comps) this season, 85 of which are shared between Eto'o, Messi and Henry.

They are amazing to watch!

Spanish Football, Sky Sports Saturday and Sunday evenings (occasionally midweek too). Watch it! :D

Jaffa Cake

Apr 28, 2009, 07:14 AM

I'm going to go for a 2-0 win for the Spanish, with Manchester United to win tomorrow's tie 2-1.

daneoni

Apr 28, 2009, 03:39 PM

Well that was unexpected...kinda reminds me of mourinho 'boring but get the job done' style of play. Credit to Chelsea though.

BoyBach

Apr 28, 2009, 04:11 PM

gauchogolfer

Apr 28, 2009, 05:33 PM

That was an awful game of 'football' - and I use that term extremely loosely.

Pass, pass, pass, pass, crap! Barca needed the metaphorical rocket up the arse and Chelsea just couldn't be bothered. Appalling... grumble grumble...

Hopefully tomorrow's tie will be much more exciting, with the excitement due to Gunner goals, of course!

Lord Blackadder

Apr 28, 2009, 11:09 PM

I hope I don't sound like a curmudgeon, but if it's a Man U - Chelsea final again I'll be tempted to give it a miss...the MLS season will be in full swing anyway. :o

I'm shocked that it ended goalless. Chelsea did a better job of stopping Barca's offense than most of us probably gave them credit for. Hiddink continues to impress (Though, we shouldn't forget that Avram Grant managed the same and even better in the league last season). I expected a scored draw at least...I don't think Stamford Bridge will hurt Barca's performance too much though; if anything the away goals rule helps them. I'm still pretty confident they will get the job done.

pachyderm

Apr 29, 2009, 05:40 AM

Silencio

Apr 29, 2009, 03:54 PM

Was that not the most lopsided 1-0 result in a long time? Arsenal is very lucky they didn't get buried in the first leg like Bayern Munich was.

BoyBach

Apr 29, 2009, 04:05 PM

Tonight's offering was no better than last nights.

That's it, I'm not watching anymore football... at least until MOTD on saturday night!

daneoni

Apr 29, 2009, 04:51 PM

XIII

Apr 29, 2009, 05:42 PM

We were very lucky...credit to the defense. Midfield and attack didn't really show up for us. I still think our tie was better...we didn't park the bus like a certain London team did yesterday and really tried to play

I'm not sure. There wasn't as much committing people forward as you'd usually see from us, and if that was us really trying to play, then I'm worried. Offensively we did nothing.

daneoni

Apr 29, 2009, 05:57 PM

I'm not sure. There wasn't as much committing people forward as you'd usually see from us, and if that was us really trying to play, then I'm worried. Offensively we did nothing.

Thats because our attacking players were silenced and didn't really fight for anything. They also kept trying to go in centrally (virtually impossible) as opposed to wide. They tried to play...they just didn't do it particularly well.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 30, 2009, 06:33 AM

Hopefully Manchester United were saving themselves for Saturday's match against Middlesbrough, intending to inflict a heavy defeat on the Teesiders. Yes, that's probably it.

Fuzzy14

Apr 30, 2009, 07:01 AM

Remaining Hull fixtures (for the benefit of others, not Jaffa who will know this like a mantra)

4 May away to Villa
9 May home to Stoke
16 May away to Bolton
24 May home to Man U

Hope you get safe before the last match, might be the title decider!

Jaffa Cake

Apr 30, 2009, 07:28 AM

Indeed – I know those fixtures off by heart, given that I've been thinking of every possible permutation... :o

I read something earlier (I can't remember which paper it was though) that the Premier League top brass are getting a bit nervous about our final match of the season against Manchester United. See, a victory for Sir Alex's side that afternoon could be the game that clinches them the title – but it could also result in our relegation. The prospect of staging a triumphant celebration and trophy presentation in front of 20,000+ folk who have just seen their team relegated is causing a few sweaty palms, it would seem...

OllyW

Apr 30, 2009, 07:44 AM

Jaffa Cake

Apr 30, 2009, 07:49 AM

Hmm. Looks like we'll have to beat Villa, Bolton and Stoke City prior to that then, just to be on the safe side and everything.

iBecks

Apr 30, 2009, 07:58 AM

What are the chances of West Brom staying up, leaving Newcastle, Boro and Sunderland being relegated?

Worth a quid at the bookies.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 30, 2009, 10:55 AM

Stockport County are the latest club to go into administration...

XIII

Apr 30, 2009, 01:24 PM

Thats because our attacking players were silenced and didn't really fight for anything. They also kept trying to go in centrally (virtually impossible) as opposed to wide. They tried to play...they just didn't do it particularly well.

To a certain extent. Adebayor was silenced and isolated. He didn't work hard, and didn't impress - but to defend him a little, he got no service at all and very little to work with.

Nasri worked very very hard all games both offensively and defensively so it seems harsh to criticise him, when he's carrying the team forward 60 yards on occasions.

Fabregas was played further forward again, which doesn't suit him. I think he got pulled back a little bit second half and worked harder defensively while still trying to come forward.

The reason they went centrally and not wide I think was partly tactical. The full backs rarely overlapped, and when they did, there was always someone else filling in for them at the back. I'm sure this would've been a deliberate tactic. When we broke, we had Nasri and Fabregas bringing the ball forward from helping out at the back, Walcott well marked (and when he wasn't he was the only slight chance) and Adebayor swamped. As we approached the box nothing happened - passes went sideways instead of forward, and no one was bursting into the box or coming from midfield especially.

Diaby and Song looked like they were both deployed defensively, along with Nasri and Fabregas told to work back. That's what lead to a disappointing attacking display. I'm sure if Arsene changes it round, as he will have to for the second leg, you'll see a lot more attacking and hopefully chances. That will be us trying to play, properly.

Fuzzy14

Apr 30, 2009, 04:20 PM

Worth a quid at the bookies.

I'll take your money!

Remember Newcastle have Liverpool and Middlesbrough have Man U then they play each other, so I think Hull have the 'easiest' run in.

My prediction, several weeks ago, is Newcastle to go down, Hull safe.

Jaffa Cake

Apr 30, 2009, 04:26 PM

My prediction, several weeks ago, is Newcastle to go down, Hull safe.I've always liked Fuzzy, sensible fellow that he is. :)

My two main concerns about Newcastle United are Shearer's innate jamminess, and the fact that as it stands they have a superior goal difference to us. Hopefully Liverpool can sort that latter point out this weekend with a thumping win – and they owe us a favour after we took John Welsh off them...

pachyderm

May 1, 2009, 06:01 AM

I think Middlesbrough, Newcastle and West Brom are a lock for relegation.

am i yer buddy too jaffa...? :o :D

pknz

May 1, 2009, 06:39 AM

I've always liked Fuzzy, sensible fellow that he is. :)

My two main concerns about Newcastle United are Shearer's innate jamminess, and the fact that as it stands they have a superior goal difference to us. Hopefully Liverpool can sort that latter point out this weekend with a thumping win – and they owe us a favour after we took John Welsh off them...

Hey, whats happened to Welsh? I'm pretty sure he was tipped at one stage to be the up and coming Gerrard.

Jaffa Cake

May 1, 2009, 01:31 PM

am i yer buddy too jaffa...? :o :DYes, you're lovely too. :p

Hey, whats happened to Welsh?That's a very good question.

As you'll probably know, he joined us originally on loan and impressed during his time here, his switch was made permanent as part of the deal that sent Paul Anderson to Anfield. The thing is, after he joined us permanently he seriously went off the boil. It's been suggested that his head went a bit wrong – he'd been at Liverpool since he was a kid, and going out at loan was fine as it would give him first team experience. But then he wasn't wanted at Anfield, his dreams were dashed and rather than being destined for greatness as the next Steven Gerrard he was having to compete for a place in a struggling Championship side. Down to earth with a bump, as they say.

Whatever the reason, his performances suffered and he found himself out of the team. He then broke his leg and, after his recovery, hasn't appeared for our first team since – instead, he's had brief loan spells at Chester, Carlisle and Bury, where he currently is. Given that successive City managers haven't played him and his loan spells are brief, some have suggested this might indicate there's an attitude problem there and he's rubbing his gaffers up the wrong way.

Whether this is the case or not is unclear, but I think ultimately he's one of those youngsters who has a huge amount of promise and talent but doesn't really utilise it. I think his contract is up in the summer, I doubt very much that it'll be renewed.

Anyway – how's that Paul Anderson getting on, anyway? I know he's at loan at Nottingham Forest at the moment, but is he still tipped to have a bright future at Anfield?

daneoni

May 2, 2009, 06:17 PM

Barcelona 6 - 2 Real Madrid

Chelsea be afraid...be very afraid

As for the Premier League its pretty much over IMHO. The only people still playing really are the bottom 5, for everyone else...its pretty much 'as you were'

pachyderm

May 3, 2009, 09:23 AM

Sheffield Wednesday 1 - 0 Cardiff City
71' Jermaine Johnson 1

Sheff Wed 16-13-17

GOALS
14 Tudgay
8 Clarke
3 Esajas
3 Watson
3 McAllister
3 Jeffers
3 Johnson
2 Sodje
2 Spurr
2 Varney
2 Potter
1 Small
1 Burton
1 McMahon
1 Slusarski
1 Buxton

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/predictor/images/players/kilmarnock_player.gif
J.J.-DY-NO-MITE!!!

pivo6

May 3, 2009, 11:17 AM

Sheffield Wednesday 1 - 0 Cardiff City
71' Jermaine Johnson 1

Sheff Wed 16-13-17

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/sportscotland/predictor/images/players/kilmarnock_player.gif
J.J.-DY-NO-MITE!!!

That result keeps Cardiff out of the playoffs due to total goals scored. I guess they shouldn't have lossed to Preston 6-0.

BoyBach

May 3, 2009, 11:36 AM

That result keeps Cardiff out of the playoffs...

A bad day all 'round for Cardiff. The football team somehow managed to balls up securing their playoff position and the rugby team lost a penalty shoot-out (yes, a penalty shoot-out in a rugby match!) to Leicester in the Heineken Cup semi final.

pachyderm

May 3, 2009, 12:59 PM

That result keeps Cardiff out of the playoffs due to total goals scored. I guess they shouldn't have lossed to Preston 6-0.

yep. i really would prefer cardiff get to go up.... but the OWLS come first! UP YOU OWLS!! We're all WEDNESDAY aren't we? ;)

CarlisleUnited

May 3, 2009, 03:43 PM

Markleshark

May 3, 2009, 03:53 PM

Once again Carlisle United performed a last day miracle to stay up :D Can't believe it, first win in 11 games, against a team in the play-offs. Need a new board and manager though, doesn't look like it will happen unfortunatly :(

Board yes, Manager no. Greggy Abbott is the man for the job. We need investment.

We're you there CarlisleUnited? Great day.

THE BLUES ARE STAYING UP!!

pknz

May 4, 2009, 12:38 AM

Does anyone know who scored a goal that was not from a corner but was near the corner flag and the player curls it around the keeper...

Probably wasn't in the premier league or (english leagues).

Got a video?

Fuzzy14

May 4, 2009, 03:23 AM

As for the Premier League its pretty much over IMHO.

Maybe try watching a different premier league? All to play for up here in Scotland, there is a point between Rangers & Celtic, and the two play each other this coming weekend. Proverbial 6-pointer!:)

Crunch day for Hull. Are Villa playing for anything? I think they are safe in the UEFA cup and too far back for a CL spot, but does that matter? Will they still be up for it?

My Mrs says I have a glass half full attitude. If Hull languished in relegation spot all season then had a chance to stay in the EPL would you all not be celebrating at this point?

CarlisleUnited

May 4, 2009, 03:41 AM

Board yes, Manager no. Greggy Abbott is the man for the job. We need investment.

We're you there CarlisleUnited? Great day.

THE BLUES ARE STAYING UP!!

Unfortunately I wasn't, had an exam that very day (I couldn't believe it, the one time of the year I have an exam on a saturday :() but I heard we played really well, saw the goals yesterday and they were both stunners!

I thought Abbott was good when he was caretaker before Ward came in but one win in 11 games isn't exactly brilliant. Maybe I was a bit hasty in saying he has to go but I'm interested to see what he does in the pre-season. You think we'll keep Harte and Bridges?

Jaffa Cake

May 4, 2009, 01:29 PM

Crunch day for Hull. Are Villa playing for anything? I think they are safe in the UEFA cup and too far back for a CL spot, but does that matter? Will they still be up for it?

My Mrs says I have a glass half full attitude. If Hull languished in relegation spot all season then had a chance to stay in the EPL would you all not be celebrating at this point?Certainly, our current position is one you would have taken at the start of the season when every pundit and his dog were predicting we'd do worse than Derby County the season before. The thing is, after our great start if we are relegated it's naturally going to make it even more disappointing and frustrating. But we're still in it and have four games left to book our spot in the top flight for next season, starting tonight at Villa Park.

We played very well against them in the reverse fixture earlier in the year, and were highly unfortunate not to have got at least a point from the game. Hopefully we can put in the same sort of performance this evening and get something out of the game – all our relegation rivals had bad results this weekend so we've got an ideal opportunity to put some space between us and the relegation places.

Oh, and CarlisleUnited – Bridges' contract is up this summer I believe, so he'll be available on a free transfer to Brunton Park if both parties want it. Certainly, I can't see him getting a new deal from us.

Jaffa Cake

May 4, 2009, 04:10 PM

Bugger. That wasn't supposed to happen. :(

CarlisleUnited

May 4, 2009, 06:01 PM

You can take encouragement from the fact it doesn't look like Newcastle and Middlesbrough will pick up any more points this season, can't be certain though. If we can keep Bridges I think he'll have a big impact next season

Jaffa Cake

May 4, 2009, 06:07 PM

You can take encouragement from the fact it doesn't look like Newcastle and Middlesbrough will pick up any more points this season, can't be certain though.Thing is, they play each other a week today so at least one of them will gain some points – the ideal result from our point of view would be a draw. Meanwhile, Villa play both clubs before the end of the season so if Mr O'Neill could arrange for his side to whoop some north-east ass in the upcoming weeks it would be much appreciated.

We now really need to beat Stoke City on Saturday...

Fuzzy14

May 5, 2009, 06:59 AM

Bugger. That wasn't supposed to happen. :(

Oh poo.:mad: You'll need to take at least 4 points from Stoke and Bolton.

BTW, can we have a voluntary ban on phrases in this thread such as 'business end of the season'?

Congratulations to Pachyderm's Dumbarton winning promotion. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_div_1/8028057.stm)

daneoni

May 5, 2009, 11:10 AM

Wenger seems overconfident of victory...me i'm not so sure. Hopefully im wrong

Jaffa Cake

May 5, 2009, 11:31 AM

BTW, can we have a voluntary ban on phrases in this thread such as 'business end of the season'?I'd also like to add to the list of banned phrases...

Reality check
Freefall
The bubble's burst
Half-time team talk at Eastlands

...which the pundits repeat ad nauseam with such glee and relish.

Meanwhile, my prediction is for Manchester United to progress this evening.

CarlisleUnited

May 5, 2009, 11:35 AM

A raw tonight so Man Utd to progress to the next round, I can see Barca beating Chelsea tomorrow as well (fingers crossed)

Queso

May 5, 2009, 11:50 AM

Stockport County are the latest club to go into administration...
Not at all unexpected TBH. Our ex-Chairman and Managing Director signed a debenture deal which may have seemed like a good idea at the time but soon turned sour. We'll be back from this, though whether we have much of a team left is another matter.

daneoni

May 5, 2009, 01:58 PM

Ugh...it's one of those nights. Pathetic.

Silencio

May 5, 2009, 02:35 PM

Wow. I really feel sorry for Gibbs.

Well, that was not quite what I expected. Arsenal looked threatening in the first few minutes, but Gibbs' slip-up and Park's cashing it in really took the wind out of the Gunners' sails. Some have said that lousy goalkeeping allowed Ronaldo's free kick into the back of the net, but I just didn't see it -- looked like a great strike to me.

Now what I really don't see is Fletcher's red card. Who says Man Utd gets all the breaks from the refs? I think he'll be sorely missed in the finals.

Other than that, a dream night for Utd.

Lord Blackadder

May 5, 2009, 10:18 PM

CarlisleUnited

May 6, 2009, 03:41 AM

I missed the game last night and have not seen the highlights yet but I heard the Fletcher sending off was shocking, did he get a big touch on the ball or did he just brush it? Hoping for a Barca win tonight

Jaffa Cake

May 6, 2009, 03:44 AM

He shouldn't have been sent off, CarlisleUnited – he won the ball and the penalty was extremely harsh, never mind the red card.

XIII

May 6, 2009, 04:09 AM

"I felt the fans were really up for a big night and to disappoint people who stand behind the team so much hurts." - Wenger

At least he understands a bit :(

Peterkro

May 6, 2009, 04:21 AM

We are dangerously close to another Chelsea - United final...I can't say I'm excited about that. Though, we can expect some entertaining banter from Platini and Blatter, who are sure to complain about it.

Best of luck to Barca...

I'm not excited about a United/Chelsea final although it could go either way.Barca/United on the other hand is drool worthy although United would probably lose.

Jaffa Cake

May 6, 2009, 01:39 PM

Barcelona to progress tonight, I feel.

gauchogolfer

May 6, 2009, 01:40 PM

Barcelona to progress tonight, I feel.

I hope so. I'm all prepped to watch the match on ESPN360 from my desk at work.

while efficiently getting all my other work to be done, for sure

gauchogolfer

May 6, 2009, 02:36 PM

What a strike from Essien!

takao

May 6, 2009, 02:39 PM

that early goal sure led to the italian style concrete mixers start again

i know it's the only way to win against barca but no team made me wish for a fast 2 goal turn around in the last 5 minutes more than chelsea's playing

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 02:56 PM

So, I've overcome last night's bitter disappointment.... and watching Chelsea v Barcelona.

Part of me wants Hiddink to win. But, OTOH... please, not another Chelsea v Man Utd final.

BTW, how did Chelsea not get to 2-0! Drogba.... man, what a chance!

Must admit Chelsea are not enjoying the ref ATM.

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 03:26 PM

Chelsea could have had 3 penalties by now.. and Barcelona has had 0 shots on target! (8 mins left)

If Chelsea were not to win... :eek:

There you go again.... 1 shot on target, and they win. I really feel sorry for Chelsea.

Don't know which side I want less to win in the final.

Jaffa Cake

May 6, 2009, 03:37 PM

You know, I'd only just mentioned to Miss Jaffa Cake that I fancied Barcelona to get one good shot in during injury time... :D

takao

May 6, 2009, 03:37 PM

93 minute. 1st shot on goal of barca and it's in

oh boy so much for my hoped for last minute turnaround

that's what you get for playing like the italian national team

stridemat

May 6, 2009, 03:39 PM

93 minute. 1st shot on goal of barca and it's in

oh boy so much for my hoped for last minute turnaround

that's what you get for playing like the italian national team

I am so gutted, Chelsea should have had at least two penalties!!!

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 03:40 PM

93 minute. 1st shot on goal of barca and it's in

oh boy so much for my hoped for last minute turnaround

that's what you get for playing like the italian national team

When the Italian national team wins, everyone shouts "it's all about the result".
:rolleyes:

I am so gutted, Chelsea should have had at least two penalties!!!

Exactly.

This is going to be a first for me: I think I really prefer Mac Utd to win in the final.
Let's hope they have a decent ref then.

takao

May 6, 2009, 03:42 PM

I am so gutted, Chelsea should have had at least two penalties!!!

and a few yellow cards for diving for the matter

seriously if you play in a 9-0-1 formation at home you deserve it

Jaffa Cake

May 6, 2009, 03:43 PM

Drogba's lost the plot. He's going to get himself in bother if he's not careful...

CarlisleUnited

May 6, 2009, 03:44 PM

Shocking, UEFA ****ed over the premier league and would not be surprised if it was on purpose. Drogba going mental at the camera in the end, and I can understand why lol

stridemat

May 6, 2009, 03:46 PM

but they also do not deserve to have 2 nearly 3 clear penalty decisions, Two handballs in the second half and a foul in the first. Massive injustice! How on earth can the ref not give them, the ref was on the edge of the box for the first.

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 03:48 PM

Drogba's lost the plot. He's going to get himself in bother if he's not careful...

So what.
He's right.

I am not a Chelsea fan, but this was disgraceful. How many penalties do you have to win to actually be given one?
If I were a Chelsea fan, I would be LIVID! :mad:

Get a ref from a country where they have to make big decisions on a regular basis.
Get an Italian or German for these HUGE fixes (if an English and Spanish club are involved)

stridemat

May 6, 2009, 03:50 PM

So what.
He's right.

I am not a Chelsea fan, but this was disgraceful. How many penalties do you have to win to actually be given one?
If I were a Chelsea fan, I would be LIVID! :mad:

Get a ref from a country where they have to make big decisions on a regular basis.
Get an Italian or German for these HUGE fixes (if an English and Spanish club are involved)

totally agree, and I am livid

Jaffa Cake

May 6, 2009, 03:55 PM

Get a ref from a country where they have to make big decisions on a regular basis.
Get an Italian or German for these HUGE fixes (if an English and Spanish club are involved)The referee was poor tonight, but Chelsea had more than enough chances to win the game in their own right. And to say that a mere Norwegian shouldn't referee a big match – as Andy Gray was bleating throughout the game – is nonsense. Refereeing in a 'big' league is no guarantee of ability or quality, as England's officials often demonstrate. And let's not forget the referee in last night's game was Italian – does that mean his decision to red card Fletcher was correct?

Meanwhile, I see Tom Henning Ovrebo's Wikipedia page has been vandalised by disgruntled Chelsea fans already... :rolleyes:

CarlisleUnited

May 6, 2009, 03:56 PM

But half the time the chances were denied by a Barcelona foul in the box, the Pique hand ball was disgusting, how did the linesman not give it!?

daneoni

May 6, 2009, 03:57 PM

Very unlucky chelsea has to be said, shoddy refereeing if you can call it that but there you go.

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 04:04 PM

The referee was poor tonight, but Chelsea had more than enough chances to win the game in their own right. And to say that a mere Norwegian shouldn't referee a big match – as Andy Gray was bleating throughout the game – is nonsense. Refereeing in a 'big' league is no guarantee of ability or quality, as England's officials often demonstrate. And let's not forget the referee in last night's game was Italian – does that mean his decision to red card Fletcher was correct?

Meanwhile, I see Tom Henning Ovrebo's Wikipedia page has been vandalised by disgruntled Chelsea fans already... :rolleyes:

I agree having a ref who is used to a big league is no guarantee, but this guy looked more or less afraid to give a penalty. Every ref has his day, and likewise has an off-day.
But this fellow simply didn't look "up to it".

No, Fletcher's red card wasn't correct, and again: you can't get everything right. But looking as if you can't handle the pressure really is the worst thing.

Nickygoat

May 6, 2009, 04:04 PM

I'll steal a few quotes from the hilarious BBC forum:

It's funny how a load of teammates pulling him away from a ref doesn't move him, but in the penalty box he hits the floor like he's been shot when he gets breathed on.

Chelsea were clearly the better side tonight. And as a football fan I would have prefered them to go through, they were much better and the referee robbed them.

But as a United fan, it's good Barcelona went through. We are certain to win it again. Abidal, Marquez, Alves all out, toothless attack. Give us the trophy now.

Quit whining. It happens.

Jaffa, as usual, is right; doesn't make a difference where the ref comes from.

takao

May 6, 2009, 04:06 PM

Meanwhile, I see Tom Henning Ovrebo's Wikipedia page has been vandalised by disgruntled Chelsea fans already... :rolleyes:

that's the spirit for some obviously :rolleyes:

here they just after the game in the discussion they showed last years "not given penalty" on messi in the barca manchester semi final ;)

and not that a german/italian would have been better for Chelsea .. it just would have led to Drogba going showering early with yellow-red in the first half for diving
Barca got a red card for Anelka falling over his own feet for christ sake

MacsRgr8

May 6, 2009, 04:07 PM

Quit whining. It happens.

Fun. That's what we do on forums.

Mitthrawnuruodo

May 6, 2009, 04:11 PM

But this fellow simply didn't look "up to it".He's an incompetent, arrogant tool, and has always been so.

Here's from last year's football thread:
I know, Øvrebø is a genuine arrogant tosser who has terrorised the Norwegian Premiere League for years, and gotten away with it somehow. There's not a game where he's not involved in some sort of controversy, mostly for extreme lack of judgement and/or the game. But for some reason the refereeing comity of the Norwegian FA seems to like him...as the only ones in Norway...

daneoni

May 6, 2009, 04:19 PM

Would it be fair to say though that over the two legs, the better team got through?

Also conspiracy perhaps to prevent an all English final at all cost, personally i don't think so but what the heck...conspiracy theories are entertaining.

Drogba's reaction probably stems more from the sad realization that he should've killed off the game with the chances he had than anything else

Lord Blackadder

May 7, 2009, 12:11 AM

Chelsea got the short end of the stick from the ref - although, 1 goal in the Champions League is not much of a margin for victory...Hiddink still has a pretty good chance of lifting the FA Cup, so he doesn't have time to cry over spilled milk.

I also agree that the nationality of the ref is irrelevant.

I'm happy to see Barca go through, but if Chelsea can hold them to one goal over two legs I can't see them scoring much against United - and in order to beat United they will need to score early and often. I do not want to see Ferguson lift another European trophy but his team must be the favorites for the win.

XIII

May 7, 2009, 04:06 AM

Yes, Chelsea were unlucky. The media bleating does seem to ignore the stone wall penalty Barca should have had last week at the Nou Camp, and the fact Ballack should've been sent off. Also, the referee made a terrible decision to send Abidal off - if United want to appeal Fletchers red, Barcelona should want to appeal that red. So all in all - it balances out. Congratulations Barcelona, I thoroughly enjoyed that.

Lord Blackadder

May 8, 2009, 04:49 PM

Jaffa Cake

May 8, 2009, 05:07 PM

Bad news for Jaffa about Ian Ashbee, possibly out for the rest of the season with the dreaded knee-ligament injury that seems so common these days.

Whatever happens to Hull City, I think Ashbee is still one of the interesting stories of the season. Few players out there have captained their team through as much as he has.Indeed your Lordship, this injury couldn't have come at a worse time really. We'll miss Ashbee, not so much for his skills but for his leadership – whenever he's missing we seem to lack direction.

It's another huge game for us tomorrow, and one we simply cannot afford to lose – especially as Newcastle and Middlesbrough play each other on Monday night. If things go wrong, come Monday evening we could be in the bottom three – the perfect set of results would be for us to thump Stoke City and our north-east rivals to play out a tepid, dour goalless draw. Mind, so long as we get the three points I don't particularly care what happens in our game – we can win 1-0 after an injury time deflection off Delap's backside, it might not be pretty but it'd be three points we desperately need. :o

We need to play Barmby from the start, and give him the armband I say.

Queso

May 8, 2009, 05:28 PM

I'm glad Barça won anyway. A moment of happiness in an otherwise dreadful week football-wise.

swiftaw

May 8, 2009, 05:58 PM

It's another huge game for us tomorrow, and one we simply cannot afford to lose – especially as Newcastle and Middlesbrough play each other on Monday night. If things go wrong, come Monday evening we could be in the bottom three – the perfect set of results would be for us to thump Stoke City and our north-east rivals to play out a tepid, dour goalless draw. Mind, so long as we get the three points I don't particularly care what happens in our game – we can win 1-0 after an injury time deflection off Delap's backside, it might not be pretty but it'd be three points we desperately need. :o

Let's break it down.

As far as I can see it is 3 from 5:

16 Sunderland 35 -17 35
17 Hull 35 -23 34
18 Newcastle 35 -19 31
19 Middlesbrough 35 -26 31
20 West Brom 35 -31 28

Sunderland:
Bolton A
Portsmouth A
Chelsea H

Hull:
Stoke H
Bolton A
Man U H

Newcastle:
Middlesbrough H
Fulham H
Villa A

Middlesbrough:
Newcastle A
Villa H
West Ham H

West Brom:
Wigan H
Liverpool H
Blackburn A

I would say that West Brom are almost certainly down. Even if Hull don't pick up another point, and Newcastle and Middlesbrough only pick up a single point then West Brom would need 7 points from 9 to get out of the relegation zone. Liverpool should beat them, so that's that.

So, realistically it's 2 from 4.

While Sunderland are currently in the best position they have a pretty tough run-in, they could quite easily lose all 3 games.

Hull will fancy their chances at home against Stoke who has woeful away form. I guess they'll also be hoping for the title to be wrapped up before the last day of the season so that Man U have nothing to play for and have one eye on the cup final.

Vila will play a big role in the fates of Newcastle and Middlesbrough. If the rampant attacking Villa shows up then I think they win both those games. In fact, I think Middlesbrough have a very tough last 2 games even though both are at home.

I think Hull defeats Stoke tomorrow essentially making them safe.

Lord Blackadder

May 8, 2009, 06:03 PM

It's a tight battle at the bottom, to be sure. Stoke will not be an easy opponent, but they are weak on the road as swiftaw says. United may put out a B-side on the last day, but as we have seen this season a Man Utd B-team can still overpower most anyone outside the top four. They may just steal a draw...

It seems Drogba may be dropped for the league match against Arsenal for abusing the ref in the Barca match. I think Hiddink would be right to do it. Put Anelka in there and let Drogba sit in the stands and think about calling refs a "****ing disgrace" on live TV.

Jaffa Cake

May 8, 2009, 06:05 PM

I think Hull defeats Stoke tomorrow essentially making them safe.If we win tomorrow and it's a draw on Monday, then we'll have a five point cushion with two games remaining. You can't take anything for granted of course, but that should be enough I hope.

Hopefully everything will be sorted by the time Manchester United pop over. I've heard a few people say it'd be good from our point of view if they've got thetitle by then and field a reserve side, but let's be honest their reserves aren't exactly shoddy, are they? I think a side of young, hungry and very talented players looking to stake their claim for consideration next season would be a tough proposition...

Lord Blackadder

May 8, 2009, 07:32 PM

Hopefully everything will be sorted by the time Manchester United pop over. I've heard a few people say it'd be good from our point of view if they've got thetitle by then and field a reserve side, but let's be honest their reserves aren't exactly shoddy, are they?

I agree. It will be a very tough match regardless of the side Fergie puts out, and you don't want to be in a position where you need to take points from United. But, as you said, there are other, more winnable matches to get points from. Plus, Middlesbrough and Newcastle will probably help you out by continuing to be horrible.

Fuzzy14

May 9, 2009, 05:45 AM

"title decider*" in Scotland today and it is chucking it down! And I'm going to miss it beacause I am currently on a golf course.:confused:

* unless you support the losing team, then the league is still very much alive.

Jaffa Cake

May 9, 2009, 06:21 AM

I'm starting to get a bit nervous, truth be told. :o

pachyderm

May 9, 2009, 07:40 AM

Go You Amber Warriors!!!

GO PNE!!

Mitthrawnuruodo

May 9, 2009, 11:17 AM

I'm starting to get a bit nervous, truth be told. :oAnd rightly so, it seems...

I've been quite optimistic on Hull's behalf, but after today's 1-2 loss at home to Stoke, I'm not really that sure anymore...now you're in trouble. :(

And West Bromwich might just have gotten the lifeline they needed... :eek:

Jaffa Cake

May 9, 2009, 01:23 PM

At the final whistle, the incestuous mug-makers unfurled a large banner reading 'WER STAYING UP'. The illiterate buffoons. :rolleyes:

We fell into our usual trap against the bigger teams – we lofted ball after ball into their box. Given that the average height of a Stoke City player is somewhere about the seven foot mark and it was the diminutive Nick Barmby we were expecting to get on the end of these balls, it was a plan doomed to failure.

I did note though that our advertising boards were a good eight or nine feet closer to the pitch than normal, in order to prevent Delap taking a mighty run up. Heh.

Anyway, beat Bolton and Manchester United and we're safe. I'm off now to compose a 'Why the Championship is better than the Premier League, so there' list...

Fuzzy14

May 9, 2009, 04:51 PM

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45756000/jpg/_45756343_stoke466x282.jpg:mad:

CarlisleUnited

May 9, 2009, 05:10 PM

Imagine if the Albion stay up, would be great to see and an incredible story! They play very watchable football and have some good players (Greening, looks like Jesus, plays like a god! :P) would much prefer them to teams like Bolton in the league

Lord Blackadder

May 9, 2009, 05:57 PM

My condolences Jaffa; it's a tight race now but your boys still have their own future in their hands to some degree. You need to throw everything at Bolton though, since nobody can expect points from United. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

Glad to see Torres and Gerrard playing together again - look what happens when they do! Liverpool is a world class side but we need perhaps a little more depth if we are going to lift titles. Let's see if Man City can make things a little interesting tomorrow. Also good to see them score three, goal difference is important these days. I think we need to win out even if it doesn't change things, and let Fergie know we'll be back next season to pick up where we left off.

Middlesbrough and Newcastle are in a tough situation - neither can afford a draw, but both sides leak goals. They can't afford to sit back, but if they attack they will concede, so I'm gambling that that their defense will be shaky and we'll get a scored draw.

pachyderm

May 9, 2009, 08:40 PM

Jaffa Cake

May 10, 2009, 01:27 AM

Imagine if the Albion stay up, would be great to see and an incredible story!No, it would be rubbish.

CarlisleUnited

May 10, 2009, 03:32 AM

No, it would be rubbish.

Sunderland could still go down! I wasn't saying it would be good to see hull go down, I like Hull, especially the team that played in the first 6 months of the season

pachyderm

May 10, 2009, 05:47 AM

No, it would be rubbish.

lol. sorry jaffa, i agree on this one. although i really think they should be relegated.
HULL CITY A.F.C. staying up would be a better one though. ;)

OllyW

May 10, 2009, 06:07 AM

Imagine if the Albion stay up, would be great to see and an incredible story!

I've got very mixed feelings on this one. :eek:

Obviously, as a Wolves fan Albion are not my favourite team. There are years and years of bad feelings between our two sets of fans, which has escalated out of control since they gifted us Steve Bull in the mid eighties.

But it has been over 25 years since the big four Midlands sides (us, them, Birmingham & Villa) were in the top flight together and I think it would be good to see them battling against each other again after all these years.

So I suppose I'm in a win-win situation. I can laugh my socks off at my mates if the Baggies go down or look forward to the intense rivalry next season if they stay up.

Lord Blackadder

May 10, 2009, 11:46 AM

No, it would be rubbish.

I don't want to sound harsh, but I have to agree, for the following reason. I've only seen a couple West Brom matches this season, but I don't understand why people say they play "attractive football".

True, they try to play a possession game, keep it on the ground and ping the ball around. But they aren't quick enough or precise enough to play that game in the premiership. Their defense can't handle premier league attacks. So, while they try to play attractive football, they don't have the tools to make it work against most of the teams in the league.

Stoke and Hull City have, at times, played a much more effective if not as ambitious type of game. I think pragmatism is the order of the day for a promoted team's first season. If WBA stay up it will be through luck as much as anything (but you could probably say the same about the bottom five right now) - but if it does happen it will be interesting to see how their strategy changes next season (and the same can be said for Stoke and Hull City). Will they get back to basics, or keep trying the "attractive" thing going?

In MLS news, defending champs Columbus finally have their first win, 3-2 over Kansas City, after an 0-2-5 start to the season (the worst ever for a defending MLS champ :( ). It's about bloody time is all I'll say...we are scoring goals at a similar clip to last year, but a few key injuries tore a big hole in our defense, and it cost us.

Jaffa Cake

May 10, 2009, 01:20 PM

West Brom played some good football last season and it was little surprise they won the Championship... er... championship as a result. As you say your Lordship, Stoke City's approach is further towards the other end of the spectrum (although they do have some quality in their side too), while we're somewhere between the two.

At the start of the season it was West Brom the 'experts' had down as the most likely survivors, while Stoke would struggle and we'd be relegated by the end of October.

I think the problem West Brom have found is that they're trying to continue the positive approach which won them the title last season, but the Premier League is a much more unforgiving environment – as you allude to, their opponents need fewer chances to score, while the Baggies get less opportunities themselves.

Fizzoid

May 10, 2009, 01:37 PM

GO PNE!! I'll be cheering them on too. After we did them a favor in beating Cardiff, they can return the favor by beating the blunts! :)

pivo6

May 10, 2009, 02:17 PM

Thanks to ManCity losing, Fulham are still in 7th. Could we see Fulham in Europe next season?

Fizzoid

May 10, 2009, 02:19 PM

It's looking likely. They've had a great season, all credit to Roy Hodgson really.

Lord Blackadder

May 10, 2009, 04:00 PM

I think the problem West Brom have found is that they're trying to continue the positive approach which won them the title last season, but the Premier League is a much more unforgiving environment – as you allude to, their opponents need fewer chances to score, while the Baggies get less opportunities themselves.

...And there are no easy answers to the riddle. Assuming the team survives, they have to decide how to spend their limited resources. In the case of WBA, should they stick with the attractive football and try to become the "poor man's Arsenal"? Or should they become a more direct, physical side? The pundits whine about route one football, but they really aren't showing much sympathy for a side that has tried and failed to play Galactico-style football on a shoestring budget.

Thanks to ManCity losing, Fulham are still in 7th. Could we see Fulham in Europe next season?

Roy Hodgson is a worthy manager, and I'd love to see Clint Dempsey in Europe next season, so I hope they make it. European football seems a poison chalice for mid-table clubs though. They either make a run, and then drop places in the league, or they play reserve sides and get dumped out.

pachyderm

May 11, 2009, 05:46 AM

I'll be cheering them on too. After we did them a favor in beating Cardiff, they can return the favor by beating the blunts! :)

Fizzoid = Wednesday...?

we're all wednesday aren't we?

;)

Fuzzy14

May 11, 2009, 06:52 AM

Can I just point out when I posted that picture (courtesy of the BBC) on Saturday I was demonstrating the illiteracy and wasn't mocking Hull/Jaffa.

Still a long way to go which is why my celebrations at the weekends Old Firm game are a bit more muted, because I expect both teams to drop points in the last three games so top of the league is still in flux.

Unusual calls on the terraces of Motherwell's Fir Park at the weekend, "Don't gerintaehim!" As a result of no yellow cards they got a Fair Play place in the UEFA cup.

Fizzoid

May 11, 2009, 07:52 AM

Fizzoid = Wednesday...?

we're all wednesday aren't we?

;)Guilty as charged! :)

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 02:23 PM

I proclaim Sheffield Wednesday (along with the inestimable Sheffield FC) to be the acceptable face of South Yorkshire-based football. Barnsley, Doncaster Rovers and the Blunts can only dream of being Wednesday.

Can I just point out when I posted that picture (courtesy of the BBC) on Saturday I was demonstrating the illiteracy and wasn't mocking Hull/Jaffa.Good job too – in the manner of Ledley King, I was just about to send 'one of my boys' around to teach you the error of your ways... :p ;)

170631

1-1 at St James' Park at the moment. This would suit us...

pachyderm

May 11, 2009, 03:37 PM

Guilty as charged! :)

Do you post here: OwlsAlive (http://owlsalive.proboards.com/index.cgi?)

I proclaim Sheffield Wednesday (along with the inestimable Sheffield FC) to be the acceptable face of South Yorkshire-based football. Barnsley, Doncaster Rovers and the Blunts can only dream of being Wednesday.

Good job too – in the manner of Ledley King, I was just about to send 'one of my boys' around to teach you the error of your ways... :p ;)

OH AYE!!!

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 03:37 PM

OH AYE!!!Oh no. :(

MacsRgr8

May 11, 2009, 03:40 PM

Hull's free fall seems to continue.... where will the fall end? The Championship?

Well, seems certain now that Newcastle have overtaken Hull...

Fizzoid

May 11, 2009, 03:52 PM

Do you post here: OwlsAlive (http://owlsalive.proboards.com/index.cgi?)

OH AYE!!!No, haven't seen it before. Probably should sign up though :)

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 03:53 PM

This is not good. Not good at all.

No, haven't seen it before. Probably should sign up though :)They like my Jaffatar™ over there. :p

OllyW

May 11, 2009, 03:56 PM

This is not good. Not good at all.

Won't this be the first time you've been in the relegation zone this season?

If so, it's a bloody daft time to be in there. :(

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 04:01 PM

Won't this be the first time you've been in the relegation zone this season?

If so, it's a bloody daft time to be in there. :(Yes, we've kind of been a bit wrong headed about this whole relegation zone thing – the idea was that we'd start there and fight our way out, rather than heroically battling our way down the table with a single-minded determination.

It's not over yet – we're only in there by goal difference – so we're just going to have to go all out to try and pick up points against Bolton and Manchester United and hope Newcastle slip up.

Hmm. :o

swiftaw

May 11, 2009, 04:06 PM

I can actually see Hull only needing 1 point to be safe as I can see Newcastle not picking up another point.

Fizzoid

May 11, 2009, 04:08 PM

I can actually see Hull only needing 1 point to be safe as I can see Newcastle not picking up another point. Have to agree, I think Newcastle's revival is over.

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 04:15 PM

swiftaw

May 11, 2009, 04:48 PM

We play Bolton on Saturday at the Reebok, while Newcastle entertain Fulham at St James'. On the last day of the season, they play Villa while we play Manchester United (or, if they've won the title by then, their under-12 side and Darren Fletcher).

I think whichever one of us is in 17th next Saturday evening will be all but safe. I can't really see either side taking anything out of the final weekend.

Aren't Phil Brown and Sir Alex friends? If Man U have the title locked up before the last day do you see him playing his reserves resting his big names for the CL final 3 days later. Could the reserves be under orders to take it easy?

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 04:53 PM

Could the reserves be under orders to take it easy?They're reasonably pally, yes. But I really don't think 'taking it easy' on other teams is part of Sir Alex's mindset.

I fully expect to see a second string side from United if the title has been sown up by that point, as I think I've already mentioned though that's not really a good thing from our point of view. Their reserves are still bristling with very good players, and they'll relish the chance to prove themselves in a first team game against opponents they expect to beat comfortably. Fergie need only point out the example of Macheda to them.

Lord Blackadder

May 11, 2009, 05:47 PM

We play Bolton on Saturday at the Reebok, while Newcastle entertain Fulham at St James'. On the last day of the season, they play Villa while we play Manchester United (or, if they've won the title by then, their under-12 side and Darren Fletcher).

I'd rather play Bolton than Fulham. 3 points against Bolton would be HUGE, and almost certainly save you, but even a draw may be enough as it would force Newcastle to get something done as well. Villa is the easier tie of the two on the last day matches, but as you said it would not be realistic to expect much from either game.

Jaffa Cake

May 11, 2009, 05:55 PM

Hopefully Jääskeläinen will think the clocks go back this weekend and, as a result, won't turn up at the Reebok until Phil Brown is saying something daft as part of a victorious post match interview.

Yes, that'll do the trick.

Lord Blackadder

May 11, 2009, 06:08 PM

It's a scramble for points, pure and simple. Based on current form I can see more 1 point ensuring survival for either Hull City or Newcastle. There's also always the (unlikely) possibility that Sunderland will collapse spectacularly and end up in the bottom three if Newcastle and Hull City both pick up wins. Next weekend almost certainly decides it.

pachyderm

May 11, 2009, 09:23 PM

This is not good. Not good at all.

They like my Jaffatar™ over there. :p

that they do! that is my ave there...well the Wednesday one.. ;)

http://web.mac.com/wreed4/iWeb/Site/Images/avatar2.sheff_weds_1950s.jpg

Jaffa Cake

May 12, 2009, 01:52 PM

The Wednesday version is more Francis Jefferstar™ than Jaffatar™...

pachyderm

May 12, 2009, 03:08 PM

The Wednesday version is more Francis Jefferstar™ than Jaffatar™...

if that were true it would be the most highly overrated and UNDERUSED avatar ever! :p :rolleyes: ;)

Fizzoid

May 12, 2009, 03:54 PM

Actually, the link to it would spend 8 out of 12 months broken and you'd never see it

swiftaw

May 13, 2009, 10:39 AM

xUKHCx

May 13, 2009, 10:42 AM

Congrats to Burnley on reaching the playoff final. Hope they win. Was actually hoping that PNE would get promoted so that the premiership could experience the Wigan-Preston rivalry.

Also, I hear their two goals last night were spectacular. Unfortunately the game wasn't on tv here so if anyone knows anywhere i can watch the goals online I'd appreciate it.

They were great goals.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/2515417/

101 is a good website for football goal coverage as well as footytube.com

I really hope they beat Sheffield United.

Bikey is in trouble after his sending off in the other leg.

CarlisleUnited

May 13, 2009, 11:02 AM

I am loving the old premiership games you can now get in the iTunes store :D some epic games over the last few years! Anyway, looks like our board has messed things up again, how are we broke when we don't even have decent players and draw pretty good crowds :(

swiftaw

May 13, 2009, 11:41 AM

They were great goals.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/2515417/

101 is a good website for football goal coverage as well as footytube.com

I really hope they beat Sheffield United.

Bikey is in trouble after his sending off in the other leg.

If Burnley get promoted there will be 3 teams in the premier league with the claret/blue strip. Kind of strange given that you wouldn't think it would be that common.

Edit: Just did a little research, apparently West Ham's colours are claret/blue because they got their hands on some Villa kit way back when.

Fizzoid

May 13, 2009, 02:32 PM

Could that let Liverpool in with a shout, or will Man U make a comeback?

pachyderm

May 13, 2009, 03:44 PM

Actually, the link to it would spend 8 out of 12 months broken and you'd never see it

lol. did u sign up...?

Jaffa Cake

May 13, 2009, 03:46 PM

Edit: Just did a little research, apparently West Ham's colours are claret/blue because they got their hands on some Villa kit way back when.It's surprising how many famous team colours actually started out in this fashion – a key example would be Arsenal, who adopted red after Nottingham Forest donated them a set of old shirts.

On the claret and blue front, there's also Sc*nthorpe United sporting those colours in the League but they're a promotion or two away from the Premier League...

MacsRgr8

May 13, 2009, 03:48 PM

2-1 Man Ure....

Title is almost theirs.... let's hope we can get a huge result @ Old Trafford.

Jaffa Cake

May 13, 2009, 03:50 PM

Title is almost theirs.... let's hope we can get a huge result @ Old Trafford.Nope – we need them to have the title already won by the time they come to play us on the last day of the season. ;)

MacsRgr8

May 13, 2009, 03:55 PM

Nope – we need them to have the title alreday won by the time they come to play us on the last day of the season. ;)

I was just looking at this weekend's fixtures for the bottom 4.
Even though your rivals play at home, all of those games are extremely tough!

So, yes. I will be having fingers crossed for Hull City, for you! >>> therefore, okay... we'll settle for a draw Saturday... ;)

CarlisleUnited

May 13, 2009, 04:27 PM

Nope – we need them to have the title already won by the time they come to play us on the last day of the season. ;)

Although if Man Utd win the title in their game against Arsenal West Brom will be playing a depressed and deflated Liverpool team at the Hawthornes, could easily see them get points from that game making the end of the season even tighter!

Fuzzy14

May 13, 2009, 04:33 PM

Oh crap, we've just thrown it away with a draw at Hibs.
All to play for up here, 2 games left.

_____________P GD PTS
1__Celtic_____36 47 80
2__Rangers___35 45 79

Fizzoid

May 13, 2009, 04:50 PM

lol. did u sign up...?
Well reminded! :)
Just did :cool:

iNash

May 13, 2009, 05:10 PM

It's surprising how many famous team colours actually started out in this fashion – a key example would be Arsenal, who adopted red after Nottingham Forest donated them a set of old shirts.

On the claret and blue front, there's also Sc*nthorpe United sporting those colours in the League but they're a promotion or two away from the Premier League...

It could happen though ;)

I actually really like the claret and blue shirts (not that I'm biased at all) ;)
But I liked West Ham's kit when I first saw it (back in the day) :)

Fuzzy14

May 14, 2009, 05:03 PM

Here is a curious little oddity, the BBC got it wrong, so half of Glasgow who checked the web last night thought Rangers were a point behind Celtic, when in fact they are level on 80 points.:confused:

Note the quick correction below, the above was a copy-paste direct from BBC site.

_________P GD PTS
1__Celtic 36 47 80
2__Rangers 36 45 80

pachyderm

May 15, 2009, 05:44 AM

Well reminded! :)
Just did :cool:

fizzy... ;)

xUKHCx

May 16, 2009, 09:01 AM

Despite the ultimately poor match Manchester United do enough to be crowned champions this season. Congratulations.

Good news for Hull who play them on the last day of the season, United will put out a weakened side and won't have anything to play for while Hull will be playing for their survival.

Good news for West Brom as Liverpool now have a lot less to play for

Bad news for Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland who are in the fight with Hull.

Jaffa Cake

May 16, 2009, 11:11 AM

As well as that, results have conspired to lift us out of the relegation places as we pinch a priceless, priceless point at Bolton.

Cripes. It's in our hands now.

swiftaw

May 16, 2009, 11:13 AM

As well as that, results have conspired to lift us out of the relegation places as we pinch a priceless, priceless point at Bolton.

Cripes. It's in our hands now.

I'm guessing you'll be (temporarily) a huge Villa fan next weekend.

Jaffa Cake

May 16, 2009, 11:14 AM

Hopefully they'll administer a mauling and meanwhile Fergie will feel the need to field a team of nine-year olds, allowing us to maybe clinch a point.

xUKHCx

May 16, 2009, 11:18 AM

Middlesborough now have to hope Hull lose and they win while trying to gain 4 goal difference between the two clubs.

West Brom still are in dire straights they need a win and a draw for any sort of hope. If they lose tomorrow (Liverpool) they are down.

Sunderland have two games left as well, if they get two points from those they are safe. On Monday they are playing Portsmouth (away) who are now safe so they have nothing to play for. Their final game is against Chelsea.

Newcastle have to rely on others losing (Hull against Manchester United) and then get at least a draw (Aston Villa away).

Hull need a win to secure it. They can still survive if they lose but they would have to rely on Newcastle losing and West Brom losing one of their 2 games and Middlesborough drawing/losing.

Hopefully they'll administer a mauling and meanwhile Fergie will feel the need to field a team of nine-year olds, allowing us to maybe clinch a point.

24th May - Hull vs Man Utd
27th May - Barcelona v Man Utd

With the Premiership wrapped up, all the top players will be kept well away from a potential mauling. I expect to see the reserve team come out next sunday against Hull.

Jaffa Cake

May 16, 2009, 11:22 AM

I think it's fair to say Darren Fletcher will get a start. :D

Congratulations to Manchester United on their title win, by the way.

CarlisleUnited

May 16, 2009, 12:27 PM

That was a horrible game though (Man Utd Vs. Arsenal) interesting to see what happens in the remaining fixtures. West Brom Vs. Liverpool and Portsmouth Vs. Sunderland are massive games! I lover this stage of the season, just wish I didn't have finals Monday and Tuesday :o

pachyderm

May 16, 2009, 01:35 PM

16 Sunderland 36 9 9 18 31 48 6 3 9 19 22 3 6 9 12 26 -17 36
17 Hull City 37 8 11 18 39 63 3 5 10 18 35 5 6 8 21 28 -24 35
18 Newcastle United 37 7 13 17 40 58 5 7 7 24 29 2 6 10 16 29 -18 34
19 Middlesbrough 37 7 11 19 27 55 5 9 5 17 20 2 2 14 10 35 -28 32
20 West Bromwich Albion 36 8 7 21 36 65 7 3 8 26 31 1 4 13 10 34 -29 31

pivo6

May 16, 2009, 02:31 PM

Fulham are just a point from the Europa Cup. Hard to think that this club was in the bottom three until the last game.

SactoGuy18

May 17, 2009, 02:22 AM

By the way, what are the current betting odds in the UK between Man Utd and Barcelona for the Champions League final?

CarlisleUnited

May 17, 2009, 03:47 AM

8/5 for both teams, 9/5 for a draw

Jaffa Cake

May 17, 2009, 09:10 AM

Hmm. Looks like we might not have West Brom to worry about any more...

CarlisleUnited

May 17, 2009, 09:58 AM

Hmm. Looks like we might not have West Brom to worry about any more...

Depressing as that is :o anywho I think you will stay up but need to have a good game on sunday because even the reserve team players from Man Utd would get in most premiership teams

Jaffa Cake

May 17, 2009, 10:10 AM

...even the reserve team players from Man Utd would get in most premiership teamsAs evidenced by the fact that we've spent the last year trying to make a club transfer record smashing bid for one of United's reserve strikers.

The team we face on Sunday won't have any of the big household names in its ranks, but it'll be a very good team and one that is perfectly capable of beating us.

Our situation is better than it was yesterday dinnertime, but we're a long, long way from being safe yet. Iit's going to be an awful 90 minutes, with one eye on the game in front of us and another on what Newcastle and Middlesbrough are up to...

By the way, I've got the Chelsea-Blackburn match on and Chelsea are wearing their new 2009-10 shirts. Absolutely awful.

OllyW

May 17, 2009, 05:38 PM

By the way, I've got the Chelsea-Blackburn match on and Chelsea are wearing their new 2009-10 shirts. Absolutely awful.

I've just seen them on MOTD2.

They've ruined a nice cycling top by sticking on that Chelsea badge.

Jaffa Cake

May 17, 2009, 06:24 PM

They've ruined a nice cycling top by sticking on that Chelsea badge.It's a pity Cech plays in goal, he's got the cycling helmet to go with it. :p

swiftaw

May 17, 2009, 06:28 PM

By the way, I've got the Chelsea-Blackburn match on and Chelsea are wearing their new 2009-10 shirts. Absolutely awful.

Just saw some photos on the BBC website, what the heck????

Edit: Apparently they are the same template currently used by New York Red Bull in MLS: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/2009-new-york-red-bulls-shirts_2091

Edit 2:
Out of interest, some other shirts for next season,
Bolton Home: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/bolton-wanderers-200910-home-shirt_3700
Blackburn Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/0910-blackburn-away-officially-launched_3697
West Ham Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/west-ham-united-away-shirt-200910_3669
Wigan Home: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/0910-wigan-athletic-home-shirt_3664
Liverpool Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/0910-liverpool-black-away-kit_3633
Arsenal Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/arsenal-nike-0910-pinstripe-away-shirt_3630
Stoke Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/stoke-city-away-shirt-0910_3595
Chelsea Away: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/chelsea-away-shirt-200910-leaked_3546
Chelsea 3rd: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/chelsea-third-shirt-200910-leaked_3549
Wolves: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/wolves-home-away-shirts-0910_3466
Sunderland Home: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/sunderland-home-shirt-0910_3446
Newcastle Home: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/newcastle-united-home-shirt-0910_3367
Everton Home: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/new-everton-home-kit_3353
Sheff Wed: http://www.football-shirts.co.uk/fans/sheffield-wednesday-unveil-new-200910-kits_3324