What's the possiblity of a Powerbook with Dual processor?

[boston8man]

Do you think it's possible for a Powerbook to support a dual processor? Is the Ti capable of this? Is Apple even pursuing this option?

[jefhatfield]

according to my mac peers in the IT field, the G4 has that dual processor ability unlike the G3 which either can't be dual processor is is very hard/expensive to do so

so why not the tibook then since it has a G4?

[spikey]

because of power consumption and heat issues

[jefhatfield]

oh, that's right, duh...but...

i never think much about power consumption because i always plug in my laptops to ac adaptors

i am not one of those airline flying dudes...especially now

[spikey]

especially not one of those really annoying airline flying dudes who need combo drives on their laptops......not mentioning any names.

[oldMac]

A dual-processor laptop could definitely be done. However, for power consumption purposes, you would probably only want one processor active during battery operation.

Heat dissapation could certainly be handled. While hot by PowerPC standards, this is not a hot chip by Intel standards. IE, hotter processors have been put in PC laptops in the past.

I think a "black-ice" laptop design would be cool, taking its design cues from the current mouse and keyboard look.

Wouldn't it be cool to mount the dual processors behind the screen with a "smoke" glass window that shows them off to the world?

Of course, Apple won't do this anytime soon. Any dualie will surely be a modification of the TiBook.

- J

[john123]

To my understanding, the real reason why you don't see a dual processor laptop is cost.

Power consumption isn't that big a deal. Your biggest power drains come from your screen and disk drives, respectably. Your processor, while hot, is #3 on the list.

Heat is a bit of a problem, but it, too, can be handled. If you believe the rumors, dual processor prototypes have been produced....

[jefhatfield]

so if heat and power comsumption is not the issue, let's say for arguments sake,

wouldn't someone like boston8 (if he gets his loan i hope) be someone who could utilize the dually G4 tibook if he had, let's say, $4200 dollars to burn on a machine like this

seriously, how many computing tasks for (most of us) need more power than a dual altivec 667 MHz G4 tibook with a giant hard drive? i mean we are talking about a real life mac desktop replacement here since the pc world considers a 15" screen, 20 GB HD, 1 GHz celeron running winbook a real desktop replacement

and the 15.2" viewing area on a tibook is actually the same viewing area as many 17" CRTs which don't really give you that full 17" of viewing area, but more than an inch less than documented (all laptop measurements for screens give you the actual viewing area though!)

[mymemory]

Before create a dual processor book think, how many dual processor towers are sold? You have to compare the amount of dual processor against single processor desktops. Now, from the amount of desktops in the market, how many PowerBooks are sold? I may guess less than 10%.
If in the real world almost any body have a dual processor mac, why should I have a dual PowerBook then? May be I can find a reason, but, is ther a market there for Apple?

Aple can sell cubes, can sell iPods because they are afforable, but to create a tecnology that would cost over $4.000 if not more? Apple powerbooks are tye most expensive computers in the market. Ok, they are good but they cost more.

PowerBooks are a solution for mobility, they still less flexible (no PCI or internal slots) and affordable than a desktop computers.

If you create a dual processor PowerBooks is because you are going to be moving 24 hours a day doing very heavy graphic work.
I do not know the first 3D animator that takes 3 planes in one day 5 times a week.
That would be the target audience for that kind of machine.
Remember that 99% of the products we buy are base on consumer needs, which guarantees sales.


[Edited by mymemory on 11-19-2001 at 10:17 PM]

[jefhatfield]

it is true that the market would be very, very small but i also thought that of the ipod and apple put that out

i believe the dual tibook's likely high cost would make it too obscure but it still would be cool one day when the price of such a unit becomes more affordable, like the next year in 2003...and by that time we will possibly be talking about a G5 laptop!

[oldMac]

A dualie laptop would not really be about practicality or affordability. The best reason for Apple to do it would be bragging rights. If they can do it and break even, they should. (Whether they could, that's another question.)

Apple needs to do a better job of conveying the idea that Macintosh's are at the top-end of performance. They can only do that effectively if they offer (not necessarily sell a lot of) the fastest machines in the market.

For the same reason, I think they should offer a quad-processor tower. (And I think they *would* sell quite a few of these.)

[jefhatfield]

you are so right...companies do that for bragging rights

before i was a pc tech, i was a salesman at the world's largest office and computer retailer and they posted some of the lowset prices on SOME models of computers anywhere on the globe

...no they didn't make a dime off these machines and after shipping, the company lost money

...but it was for that bragging "wow" factor for our "cheap prices"

...and that brought people in to also buy peripherals, paper, ink, paperclips, folders, coffeemakers, refrigerators, coffee, cookies, sodas, pens, maps, software, furniture, floor mats, books, kleenex, toilet paper, tvs, radios, typewriters, calculators, etc...and those items made the profit for the company, and we are talking billions which the company used to swallow up legions of their competitors like office max, viking, office club, and many other multinational coporations

...so in big business, bragging rights are a necessary expense

...the huge losing proposition called the NSX wowed the car world and put acura on the map of the big boys and helped sell their "ordinary" cars in obscene amounts and mounted a real threat to toyota and nissan!

[jefhatfield]

but the comment on quad processors is simple...

go around and ask you mac friends if they would buy one,

then ask if they could afford one today,

or next paycheck,

or the paycheck after that,

or even by the middle of next year,

you see my point?

...the only people i know who can afford or have a justifiable need for a quad G4 around me are a select cadre of companies in silicon valley in the media/multimedia industry

...but i do know some who would buy one to match their roomful of G4s and techie buyers who like to buy every model of mac (see the collectors section further down on the home page) and they might make up for some marginal sales

...so a quad G4 would be another "bragging rights" machine but, in my opinion, would not have the "wow" factor of a dualie tibook (which would easily make the cover of "mobile computing" and "laptop" magazines!

actually, i would nominate it (th tibook) to be on the cover of playboy, penthouse, and the february issue of sports illustrated

[spikey]

Then why not put a cheaper G4 in quad config?
Then you can brag and have a slightly affordable machine

Like a 500Mhz G4, that would deliver quite some performance.


Who would need to buy it though i dont know.

[spikey]

And many congrats jef.
You are now the most prolific poster on this forum.

[SPG]

Being in the media field and having sat my ass in a $2000 chair in a $250,000 edit suite, I can safely say that there are plenty of people and more importantly plenty of companies that would line up for the chance to buy a quad if the performance was there.
When you look at the cost of labor and the time it takes to render, even the smallest production house would have to look at something that would cut down on thumb twiddling time, therefore paying for itself and then generating more work and more profit$. That's why most studios still use Avid instead of FCP even though Avid cost several times more.

[jefhatfield]

you guys and gals altogether cannot even fill a college basketball auditorium or a costco store

i am not speaking out of my ass since my wife used to to art director for spin magazine and was going to be head graphic designer for architectural digest, both in nyc, before she came out to quiet rural northern california

but either way, go apple inc. and get that quad processor out and show the pc world what we are made of, even if it's just for the ego quotient

G4s can fit up to 16 in one machine, theoretically! so let's do that folks

..so i agree with you, let's get that puppy out and if you buy one, post here and let the rest of us poor folk know what it's like ;-)

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-20-2001 at 02:30 PM]

[Kela]

Umm like why have you guys all pussied out on me here? THIS WAS A POTENTIAL FIRE STARTING THREAD. But nooo, were all happy now. How come there werent any retarted remarks from John`23?

[SPG]

Plenty? Okay not nearly as many as iMac buyers, but enough to justify releasing a flagship faster than God Himself machine. I am not a marketer in the Video business so I dont' know how many studios there are but look at al the media being created, lots.
The real point is that there are more of us willing to throw down our bosses money on it than there are drug dealers willing to buy an Acura NSX.

oh yeah, Kela. Did you notice that Catharticus Sparticus Retardicus or whatever he wanted to call himself was in fact a brand new poster with background knowledge of Spikey? Hmmm, 2+2=John123 posing as the innocent to take a little stab?

[SPG]

Oh yeah Jef, You're Lebowski, I'm The Dude or The Dudester, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

[jefhatfield]

lebowski is cool, i think, right, dude

john123 is joeyj if you have not noticed yet, but neither "poster" will admit to that i am sure

i am really spikey, no just kidding but the multiple personality thing at least gives more fuel to the forum war thing and just think, one can play both sides or switch sides like in that war you know where

spikey, i didn't know the perverts were not in the tube bathrooms if there were no bathrooms there, maybe they all just piss on the subway platforms but london still seems clean compared to BART (bay area rapic transit)

all fluids are bad for ibooks, including piss and macworld should do a test on that...remember that other "test" they did on that poor blueberry ibook in a past macworld review?

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-20-2001 at 04:32 PM]

[john123]

Originally posted by Kela
Umm like why have you guys all pussied out on me here? THIS WAS A POTENTIAL FIRE STARTING THREAD. But nooo, were all happy now. How come there werent any retarted remarks from John`23?

You misspelled "retarded."

Oh the irony.

[john123]

Guys,

I am not "sparticus" or whoever, nor am I "joeyj." This is my one and only account on macrumors....I promise.

[jefhatfield]

then spikey has more sparring partners

[hinkhous]

When I first rambled in to http://www.macrumors.com I had an idea that this was an active web forum for all things mac. What I have come to find out is that this website is frequented by about 5 guys who know a lot about macs and just keep throwing their information into a mental wrestling match. It is kinda fun to watch every now and then, but it still comes as a disappointment to find out that "new blood" on this site is pretty rare. That's my 2 cents. Proceed to flame, if necessary.

[SPG]

Blood!?! Where? Someone said bood, right? Bring it on! We're all itching for a good fight!
Ohhhhhh, New Blood, nevermind.

[Catfish_Man]

When I first rambled in to http://www.macrumors.com I had an idea that this was an active web forum for all things mac. What I have come to find out is that this website is frequented by about 5 guys who know a lot about macs and just keep throwing their information into a mental wrestling match. It is kinda fun to watch every now and then, but it still comes as a disappointment to find out that "new blood" on this site is pretty rare. That's my 2 cents. Proceed to flame, if necessary.

This is exactly why I don't spend too much time on this forum. I would tell you where some more interesting/friendly ones are, but I'm sure they would just be invaded by the flamewar people. (who, of course, would be banned within a few days after annoying everyone else.)

to keep this on topic: A DP laptop would be cool, but I think the heat/power problems, and the problem of finding enough space for the second processor would make it very difficult/expensive to make.

[jefhatfield]

actually some of us may be female and be saying we are male for cyberstalker reasons

and some of us, me included, do not know much about macs as technicians/engineers/administrators, but many stupid comments i make do help me learn so i can be a mac tech some day...there are no mac tech schools around where i live except in cupertino which is 2 hours away if the traffic is heavy

you are more than welcome to join the fray, it's really no different than all the mac/pc boards i have seen since 1997 and there will always be dominant posters and that is ok...i post a lot but it took me three times as long to catch up to some others

don't be afraid of being attacked, it's a part of the posting process and if you are a user or tech, it's the best way to learn

[spikey]

i dont know if john123 is joey f**kface or not, but i know you two are d**kheads. Yes thats right sh**heads, i called you a rude word. Why dont you both giggle about it in the naughty corner. see if i give a ******.

Sorry Kela. Some things have come up lately, so i havent been in the mood for arguing with people.


more sparring partners???
for some reason i seem controversial to people, this annoys them because they are right wing little f**ks.
See if i give a ****** anyway, i can take on all the d**kheads out there help or no help.

John promises hes not joeyj?
a d**khead and now a lier, you have quite a record john.

[john123]

Spikey,

Sorry, but when your posts really say nothing other than a string of curse words, it's just not worth my time to reply. If you want to argue or fight, you have to do better than that.

[Eonicman]

If Apple really wanted to get the ultimate in WOW effect, on that Dual or Quad Processor machine, it would have to create an Artificial Intellegence layer to the OS so that the computer would have true learning ability and would be able to develop a personality of it's own. Then Apple could be the first to offer a Personal Computer with Personality (PCP) and 4 Brains with Power to Burn!

[gustl]

..for me a super drive (DVD-R/CD-RW) would make much more sense than having more processing power....then you would have a powerfull workstation which you can take everywhere you want.....the idea of the powerbook....

[jefhatfield]

why new blood?... you already routed me in my argument where i still though bg had a part of apple and you and another poster showed me that bg is no longer holding any strings at apple

actually i didn't feel defeated being wrong when i found out you two were right in showing me bg sold off his apple shares

i was so happy...it was like when i was 11 or 12 when i found out that girls didn't have cooties and the difference between boys and girls was actually a real plus...viva la difference!

...like richard pryor says, "I bet my daddy don't know about this"

but new posters come her all the time, even if some of them are previous posters with a new handle...i am a fat, aging techie...i might reincarnate myself here as young with no gray hair and not worrying about george forman's prostate commercials...yeah laugh now you idiots, but wait until you are 35 or 40 and see how funny it is...you get spam of sportcars and swinsuit models while i get spam of retirement funds and viagra...life starts at 40...************

but no matter your age, enjoy life everybody and happy thanksgiving...even to you bill gates!

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-22-2001 at 11:11 AM]

[spikey]

I dont expect you to reply to my post john, what i said in it were facts. You cant reply to it.

[spikey]

Chill jef, no need to worry about age.
It doesnt matter how old or fat you are. i say go out and have a good time.

I dont get sportscars, i cant afford a car. Infact i cant afford to get driving lessons.
But i do have a beautiful girlfriend.


i sort of lost the point of this post about half way through writing it, but i suppose its that we have bad and good sides.....or something like that.

[spikey]

wow, my last post was really *****.

[joey j]

>john123 is joeyj if you have not noticed yet, but neither "poster" will
admit to that i am sure

I am not john123 :p. How did you come up with that one?

[jefhatfield]

it is called a mid life crisis and it is well documented

sex drive goes down, you have to stand closer to the urinal so you don't pee on the floor, irregularity becomes more common, and all new popular music loses you

i mean, who the heck is slipknot? and are brittney spears, cristina agualera, and those other blond teens all the same person as well as backstreet boys and nsync? not to mention i have no idea if i am spelling these artist's names correctly

the last popular music i had a handle on was en vogue and nirvana but since then, it's been very confusing

i used to be thin and eat anything i wanted to and girls used to notice me all the time

and i won't buy a sportscar because mt reflexes are not what they once were...i know this because i routinely get routed by my 5'2" friend in basketball

spikey, wait 15-20 years and tell me what you think then

[jefhatfield]

you guys both have similar arguments and both target spikey and both of your writing styles are uncanny in their similarity

i am not the only one who pointed that one out and after nearly 18 months on this board, it is easy to get a feel for people's styles

if you are not john123, then i am truly surprised and i aplogize for the assumption, i will just call you two...the "jj" twins or something like that

you can call me that old fat pc guy if you want

[mymemory]

Too much pot in here, this people are getting crazzzzzy.

[joey j]

>you guys both have similar arguments

Specifically which arguments? So far the arguments of mine so far on Mac
Rumors are `G4 in imac is good' and `G5 aimed at MWSF 2001', which aren't
particularly unique.


>and both target spikey and

I did not and do not target spikey; he replied to me regarding the
G4-in-imac thread. What, I shouldn't reply?


> both of your writing styles are uncanny in their similarity

Maybe; I just `de-construct' posts when I reply; I specialise in
brick-by-brick demolitions :p When I used to hang out on usenet, I learned
the art (skill? =] ) There might be others who reply in the same
point-by-point method; I suppose john123 also does, then.


>i am not the only one who pointed that one out and after nearly 18 months
on this board, it is easy to get a feel for people's styles


>if you are not john123,

... and indeed, i'm not ...

> then i am truly surprised and i aplogize for the
assumption, i will just call you two...the "jj" twins or something like
that

>you can call me that old fat pc guy if you want

:p

[jefhatfield]

both you and john123 seem to do the deconstruct thing well in an academic way...very schooled and case study like...both of you like answering questions with further questions

but i am not anti academia since i am a part time teacher and am ashamed at bush for saying he believes in education because his wife is a teacher...jeez, then spend it on students, bush

only kela from what i have seen seems to approach arguments in such an academic manner and i know john123 isn't kela since i have seen their wars in the past

john123 is an ivy leauger grad, are you also one of those harvard or yale types?

just curious...and i know it's none of my business and personal info is private and i respect that...but now i and others, i am sure, are very curious

i will have to see more and more posts until i am convinced that you two are not the same...if you are not john123, go to his handle, and look up his past posts...this is my definition of uncanny

jh, the fat pc guy

[spikey]

Part opf the reason i think you are john, is because john needs another identity.
I have deconstructed,flamed, just taken his posts apart.

[spikey]

jef, i dont understand popular music either. The only reason it is popular is because 90% of the population is stupid. and 90% of the population buys it.

I still buy the clash,radiohead,slayer,hendrix.

Jef, it doesnt matter how old u are. we all have sh**tness, for example i cant afford to live in my own apartment so i have to stay at a friends house. My g/f lives abroad and i only see her once a year, i cant phone her because it costs too much. and i dont know where the f***k im going with my life.

Chill jef, you will always be respected because you are the part of the other 10% of the population.

[jefhatfield]

you want more of why i think so

(remember, i am the macrumors neutral guy...kind of like switzerland or sweden or bhutan)

ok, maybe spikey takes the first swipe

both of you (joey and john123) are very knowledgeable about macs and split knowledge on software and hardware equally, which is rare so i assume both of you are either very high end users or techs in training

based on comments from both of you, i could tell neither of you are full time techs currently in the field and gather many facts from journals, magazines, and periodicals and are not ones who have worked on thousands of machines which any tech has done with a couple years of experience or more

...not to say that is bad since the knowledge you two possess, you will have to mostly unlearn if you become working techies, whether you become software engineers or hardware engineers

...both of you quote from the cutting edge, too...of which much of it does not make it to engineers and techies like me...it gets quashed in r and d

under no circumstance do i think either of you are new users or very young kids since both of you have great IT knowldege and handle arguments more like adults instead of saying sweeping comments like, "all pcs suck" or "all macs rule"

neither of you talk out of your ass and i respect that

these are just guesses in the dark but you asked me why i thought you two are the same person

i am a good pc tech but still only a mediocre mac user and there is a lot i don't know about all the menus in os x and the finer details of photoshop and the like

i have used macs since 82 or 83 but i never had to make a living from fixing them, so i am just a user...nothing like having the check writing/cash wielding client standing over you while you try to fix their windows box...the more i fix, the closer i am to my new ibook

if you want another opinion on why you two are similar, ask spikey...he is very sharp and he will be able to pick out other things i missed

and also, there are 2000+ members on macrumors and i am one of the first members here and i make lengthy posts...so out of 2000+ posters, only you and john123 have been as wordy as me on any consistent basis...now what the heck are the odds of that...i hope spikey sees this post

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-22-2001 at 12:42 PM]

[joey j]

jefhatfield> both you and john123 seem to do the deconstruct thing well in
an academic way...very schooled and case study like...

I'm flattered :p


>both of you like answering questions with further questions

I do? I've never thought that an admirable trait and try to avoid it. Do I
really do that? doh.


>john123 is an ivy leauger grad, are you also one of those harvard or yale
types?

Not yet ;)


>just curious...and i know it's none of my business and personal info is
private and i respect that...but now i and others, i am sure, are very
curious

I would never have realised that my _approach_ to replying would incite so
much (as you assert above, "now i and others") interest. I suppose john123
feels as awkward as I do now.


>i will have to see more and more posts until i am convinced that you two
are not the same...if you are not john123, go to his handle, and look up
his past posts...this is my definition of uncanny

okay, i'll check it out.


>jh, the fat pc guy

you're redeemed, you use a mac at home... so you say... :p

[jefhatfield]

i sometimes think i will take you and john123's side and on other days i think i will take spikey and kela's side

it is very much like the original survivor with different alliances

the reason i stay neutral is because i don't have a deep understanding of macs like i do have with pcs so i don't want to make an ass of myself when some photoshop user asks me why the color management thingy won't work in conjuction with this or that 20000 dollar program is some high end london studio, etc...

[john123]

I go away for a day, and look at the mess I come back to....

The only thing that I'll respond to is jethatfield's discussion of my background -- specifically, that I'm not a "full time tech." That's totally right. I spent a lot of the past several years both selling and doing tech support for PCs and Macs, but as far as the engineering side of things, I have no formal experience (nor do I want it).

That's all. Let me get a shout-out to my twin joeyj, too. Hi, joeyj.

[jefhatfield]

this is so cute, you know, reuniting lost alter egos and such

being a tech is only fun for the first six months...and then guess what...it becomes just another job or career or livelihood or daily trudge

there is nothing more fun than being a user and having the computer work for you, not you for it designing, maintaining, upgrading, and repairing it...if that happens and you get paid for it, even 10 quid/dollars/yen/marks/lire , then you are working for the computer

but the good thing is i have never met a consistent tech in the same genre for over five years...software guys move to hardware, hardware guys move into sales, sales people move into programming, and anybody in any of those long enough become ACCOUNTANTS...another name for a CIO or MTO, (the suits) who often cite their last true hands on experience with the 020 or 8088 and think that firewire is a transgender biker skinhead BDSM club in soho or the tenderloin district

[joey j]

john123>That's all. Let me get a shout-out to my twin joeyj, too. Hi,
joeyj.


Hey man. Yes, it would indeed appear that we have been anointed twins ;)

[jefhatfield]

it has appeared that spikey and kela have joined forces in the past against the one, lone john123 and that seems unbalanced at best

sometimes monkeybusiness joins the war and mymemory also has a good arsenal of knowledge, too (citing frequent posters)

but with joey hopefully siding with john123 on an issue or two, then i could feel more compelled to be dubbed the neutral guy that some of you call me

i am neutral because i am only a mac user and not too involved with the tech side of mac unless it concerns crossover information with the pc world like buses, cache, ram, processor speed, etc.

buy ask me something on os x menus or rendering large graphic files, then i get lost (i hope to learn graphics one day because the hardware field can't last forever and support so many techs since the prices of hardware goes down every year and i suspect that will eventually in ten or twenty years require fewer people...like the vcr repairpeople of the past in the once super lucrative field...the local vcr repair business near where i live might be closing its doors and is now doing more computer hardware stuff and some networking hardware sales

it is good to have you, joey, macrumors has been given some new life on these boards and it is always fun to see a new, bold voice...especially someone brave enough to attack king spikey, the all time poster on macrumors.com...you remind me of ichiro the rookie coming into the majors and hitting 200+ hits, batting 350 overall, and batting 455 with runners in scoring position

hang in there for 30, and then 100...if you don't already know what i mean

[jefhatfield]

i forgot to mention SPG, the frequent poster who started this thread within a thread

...and most likely will be one of the next to hit 200 along with two or three others i can think of

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-23-2001 at 09:17 AM]

[spikey]

The debates were never Me & kela Vs john. Someone like megaquad, mnkybusiness or mymemory would always join johns side. Often 3 of them would take on me and kela.....and fail.
Me and kela only bash john because me and kela both hate him, we both have similar likes/dislikes, and kela and i dont really like zealots.
Otherwise i dont really team up with any1.

I did notice that thread jef, yeah u r right. Not only that but the metaphors used in attempting to flame someone are very similar. They would describe the comment they are trying to flame, the difference between their flaming style is joey doesnt brag about his details and how his background is superior to yours.... which is convenient.
they concentrate on disproving a particular thing written in the post.

both are cr*p at flaming though.


I hate zealots.

[joey j]

>I did notice that thread jef, yeah u r right. Not only that but the
metaphors used in attempting to flame someone are very similar.

I hardly attempted to flame anyone.


> They would describe the comment they are trying to flame,

You seem to have confused a flame with a rebuttal.


> the difference between their flaming style is joey doesnt brag about
his details and how his background is superior to yours.... which is
convenient.

In which way? Ah. You still think I'm john123, don't you?

I don't have any `details' or a `background [which] is superior' to brag about.


> they concentrate on disproving a particular thing written in the post.

... known as a rebuttal ...


>both are cr*p at flaming though.

Not too shabby, seeing as I never intended to flame anyone.

[spikey]

wow, analysing my posts again joey?
you are really starting to sound like john now.

[spikey]

Infact the way you always look at my posts is exactly what john would do.

So you dont intentionally flame me?
Why do you always contradict what i say?

The way you have to reply to every comment i make, then contradict and attempt to flame simultaneously is alos alot like what john would do.

[Edited by spikey on 11-23-2001 at 01:26 PM]

[joey j]

>wow, analysing my posts again joey?


Hardly. In which way am I `analysing' your posts? `analysing' is a very
vague term.

[joey j]

>Infact the way you always look at my posts is exactly what john would do.

>So you dont intentionally flame me?

No.


>Why do you always contradict what i say?

(does contradicting you count as a flame now?) Because it so happens that
most of your points are worth contradicting, because they appear
incomplete or flawed, based on false premises etc.


>The way you have to reply to every comment i make,

... is that a problem?


> then contradict and attempt to flame simultaneously

Point out for me one of these attempts. I'm only aware of making a reply.


> is alos alot like what john would do.

With ~3000 registered members, I'm hardly surprised that two frequent
posters have the same posting style.

[spikey]

no it isnt vague, you just dont understand jack *****.

I mean, looking at my posts, commenting on them.

It is uncanny the way both you and john do this, you also use the same points of my posts to criticise. It is always a point that is either slightly controversial or says something that would make more sense if it is looked at more broadly.

You alkways seem to be the first one to want to comment on one of my posts joey.
suspiciously like what john does.

I think you really are john arent you.

[Edited by spikey on 11-23-2001 at 01:40 PM]

[spikey]

">Why do you always contradict what i say?

(does contradicting you count as a flame now?) Because it so happens that
most of your points are worth contradicting, because they appear
incomplete or flawed, based on false premises etc.


>The way you have to reply to every comment i make,

... is that a problem? "

No, it means you and john are similar in alot of ways. you love to contradict someone like me. You=john.

See, even the way you reply by asking a question and using it to avoid answering the question i asked. Very john like.

And the way you try to phrase things intelligently to hide the lack of content, very john like.

It isnt a coincidence that you and john have the same writing style, because you are the same person.

[SPG]

Amazing to see what happens when people leave the Brits and one American, Jef (had a little wine with Thanksgiving dinner?) alone for a day.
Jef, one question, How did I start this?
BTW, I'm glad you don't listen to Britney Aguilera or Nstink, just don't pee on my floor if you ever stop by.
JoeyJ, I think you are John123 too, I'm not positive, but it seems too convenient that a brand new poster with such a similar style to John123 would come on to the boards and take on J123's favorite target, Spikey.
I do not take sides with anyone, nor am I neutral because I will stand up for what I believe to be true until proven otherwise or until I prove it to others.
Both John123 and JoeyJ seperate or otherwise, do all of us working stiffs a favor and just use the quote button when replying so we don't have to reread the original post a dozen times, some of us have other things to do every now and then although by the lengths of the posts it wouldn't always seem it.

[MacAztec]

Guys, this is no time for arguing. I really dont want to hear everyone getting "mad" on the internet. This thread is supposed to be about dual-processor powerbooks. I truly think is a horrible idea. I dont know one person that is going to use a powerbook for video-editing. Sure, it would be good for bragging rights, but Apple doesn't have enough money to do that. The G5, which i believe will be released at MWSF, is going to be bomb. If that releases, I am 95 percent sure there will be no more G3. Name one time apple has had more than 2 processors out for sell. The iMac, will probrobly have a G4 processor in it, and that would be great. I am only in 8th grade, and at my graduation, i get a new computer. Right now i am running a imac 333 with OS 10.1!!! Its awesome. But anyways, if apple could make that G4 iMac, that woulld be the hot ticket.

[joey j]

spikey> no it isnt vague, you just dont understand jack *****.

That's awfully enlightening of you.


> I mean, looking at my posts, commenting on them.

So that's what you take issue with.


> It is uncanny the way both you and john do this,

... with ~3000 registered forum members I'm hardly surprised that two with
similar posting styles should emerge.


> you also use the same points of my posts to criticise.

Has it ever struck you that the reason _why_, is because those points in
question might actually _be_worthy_ of criticism?


> It is always a point that is either slightly controversial or says
something that would make more sense if it is looked at more broadly.

I presented a case for the G4 in the imac; you repeated your initial
argument, i repeated my case, and things went downhill from there.


> You alkways seem to be the first one to want to comment on one of my
posts joey. suspiciously like what john does.

... or purely a coincidence given that my posting hours are similar to
yours.


> I think you really are john arent you.

Unfortunately, the answer is no. Disappointing hrmm?




> No, it means you and john are similar in alot of ways. you love to
contradict someone like me. You=john.

Because both john and myself happen to coincide in loving to "contradict
[you]", that is proof enough that I'm john?


> See, even the way you reply by asking a question and using it to avoid
answering the question i asked.

There was very little substance to answer to.


> Very john like.

I'm still not john123, in case you still don't realise.


> And the way you try to phrase things intelligently to hide the lack of
content, very john like.

Your accusals of `lack of content' are not matched with evidence. All I
see is invective.


> It isnt a coincidence that you and john have the same writing style,
because you are the same person.

... not.





SPG> Amazing to see what happens when people leave the Brits and one
American, Jef (had a little wine with Thanksgiving dinner?) alone for a day.

Are you referring to me when you refer to `the Brits'? :p

I was actually debating with myself whether or not to americanise (-ize?
:p) my spelling to mislead people into thinking that I was from North
America. I followed that rule religiously on usenet (the confusion came in
handy a couple of times for taking the moral high ground, people would
assume I was an "arrogant yank" or a "stupid canuck" or similar, i'd give
it to them then :p.

conclusion: people by and large (in my experience) don't read
newspostings' headers before they speculate on someone's nationality).

[i'm not british for the record. no, DON'T speculate on from where I
hail :p, it might invite puerile behavior and jokes from, erm, certain
others...]



> JoeyJ, I think you are John123 too, I'm not positive, but it seems
too convenient that a brand new poster with such a similar style to
John123 would come on to the boards and take on J123's favorite target,
Spikey.

Why does everyone think that I singled out spikey? I replied to him, he
replied to me, everything was civil for a while, too.


>use the quote button when replying so we don't have to reread the
original post a dozen times,

Erm, you mean `reply' as opposed to `reply-and-quote'?


> some of us have other things to do every now and then although by the
lengths of the posts it wouldn't always seem it.

Indeed, I've an extended break -- and all the time in the world :p

[john123]

Wow, Joey, errr, I mean me....keep up the good work.

Guys, just as a little bit of proof, take a look at all my old postings. Have I ever quoted postings the way Joey does? No. Have I ever even used the non-American English spellings of words? No.

Just because two people are highly analytical (and much smarter than the Spikeys and Kelas of the world) does not make those two people one in the same.....

[mymemory]

Originally posted by spikey

Jef, it doesnt matter how old u are. we all have sh**tness, for example i cant afford to live in my own apartment so i have to stay at a friends house. My g/f lives abroad and i only see her once a year, i cant phone her because it costs too much. and i dont know where the f***k im going with my life.


Man Spike, you can live in eather two places to say that, in Venezuela or in Afganistan. My economic situation is bad, but I still have a toyota truck and AC in my studio. About your life... I'm 26, living with my parents (my brother is 34 and he is here too, that is bad), I may get married next year but I do not make anough money to life by my self. Then we are a week from a dictatorship (that is as dramatic as Fidel Castro taking over the White House, we have been living in democracy for 60 years). So, my house may be confiscated next year may be.

If you do not know what to do with your life, think that Bill Gates is the only one with job security right now (and may be 10 others).

Else, you buy ***** music too, get some Depeche Mode (with Alan Wilder on the keyboars) or Erasure or Pet Shop Boys, I know these two last ones are gay but the electronics are good.

[jefhatfield]

SPG you are uncannily right, i had alcohol with thanksgiving and it was a cabernet sauvignon, maybe enough to make this yank loose on the boards

anyhow, i thought it was that blood comment i thought you made which brought on the latest war since all heck broke loose after the mention of blood

sorry if it was not you who made that blood, i want blood comment...i will have to check back in the posts now that i am sober today

jh
cabernet sauvignon drinker
chasing spikey in the race to hit 400

[john123]

Was it Kendall Jackson? That's my favorite....

[jefhatfield]

i am not a harvard guy like you so i drank a cheapo cab...i think it was vendage or something like that...i am not slamming harvard...i wished i got the grades to get in, the money to pay for it, or the discipline to study that hard, and for that i am jealous...the same way i am of evildead or blakespot's killer mac systems

the closest i come to buying a wine with a maple leaf on it is turning leaf, kendall jackson is out of my price range

but i am a wine enthusiast and my buddy gives me all the good stuff to taste like mondavi, kendall jackson, and the good french stuff (aged, of course) and he's an ivy leaguer...kind of...he went to stanford and MIT

i am mostly a product of a state funded universities (cal poly-slo, mpc, sbcc, and sonoma state university) so i will have to do with gallo and budweiser

i am not saying that ivy league universities have graduates that get paid more, it is not that at all

it is that ivy league schools have such a high price that you have to "usually" be rich in the first place and many people i have known who got into those schools spent a mint in prep schools which are the way to best get in, even today in 2001

but i know your story how you did it the hard way, but that still seems to be the exception from what i see

wow, what was this post about?

oh well, i am at least glad that with this post i have passed up your nemesis spikey en route to 400 but it is getting late here in california and he should be getting up soon and he will be in striking distance of 400 today in england

i know these things don't matter in the big scheme, but this board is a good procrastination tool away from my boring landscape and computer repair businesses

catching spikey is like trying to catch up with mark mcguire in '98

my predidction is that six months from now, joey, assuming he is not you, will be the all time poster on macrumors.com

i have been here 17 months but joey has reached full member in less than 6 weeks from i can gather

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-24-2001 at 01:58 AM]

[john123]

Dude, I wish I could get you a bottle of KJ then. I mean, I don't drink the stuff consistently...I'll have a bottle of Turning Leaf white zin frequently. And my cheap Chardonnay of choice is the Ernest and Julio Gallo....you can get a big bottle of the stuff for under $8.

Anyway, as for the number of posts...good for joey if he gets that high. Personally, I've deleted many of my posts in the past, after they've all been read. I wonder if any of you have ever noticed this.............

[spikey]

Mymemory, you missed the poiunt of my post, as per ususal.

Im saying we all have shittyness, often as much as each other. This isnt some sort of "who has the shittest life" contest.


pet shop boys???
Erasure???

LOL, my god. that really is sad. Is that all you get over there in venezuela?

[spikey]

deleting your posts?
Wow, thats exactly what joey does too.

nobody notices your posts john/joey/tw*tface.

[spikey]

"> And the way you try to phrase things intelligently to hide the lack of
content, very john like.

Your accusals of `lack of content' are not matched with evidence. All I
see is invective. "



All i see in your posts is *****, in word form.

your a w**ker, no offence.

[john123]

Originally posted by spikey

your a w**ker, no offence.



And you're a f*ckface.

But I'm sure you already knew that.

[joey j]

>deleting your posts? Wow, thats exactly what joey does too.

... and in closing as per requests, I'd like to say that I've never
deleted any of my posts. Surely if I'm as self-absorbed as you assert that
I am, I'd leave my posts for posterity?


>nobody notices your posts john/joey/tw*tface.

Indeed. You didn't read them (or IBM's press release regarding the FX) very closely.

re: `out the window' and `f***king canadian'. Not to mention the 400 mhz
bus that, erm, wasn't.

[MacAztec]

Hey guys. I hope you all had a great thanksgiving. Anyways, I just put 10.1 on my 333Mhz imac. Its running great! I am getting a new computer for my 8th grade graduation this summer. What do you think would be good for me? I am expecting a G4 iMac by then, and probrobly a G5. I do video editing, (helping my dad with Streaming Digital Producitons, check us out at http://www.streamingproductions.net) I am also doing cool games. I wanted to get a G4 tower because it has all the room I need for upgrades. My brother says an iMac would be good. Can you guys give me your advice on the debate??

[SPG]

If you're not getting a new machine until the summer, then don't even sweat it until a couple months before. Everything could very easily change by then, G5? iMac2? G5laptop? Who knows what else in the lab right now Apple.

Jef, My earlier comment about blood was a joke. Even so I don't think that would have started John123/JoeyJ vs. Spikey.

[jefhatfield]

with some posters, they don't need any incentive, the flame or fire just starts by itself

i think it was me who pointed out the similarities between john123 and joey, and that time another forum war broke out

how could i possibly find out if the two j's are the same or not...unless i am a hacker, i can't ever know the real truth

but you know, it is much for fun that way because the more either one claims they are not the other, the more they sound like the same person

it is good that super personal details are not required on this chat line but i put in personal information if i think it relates to what i am saying, even if that particular comment falls off the thread...ie) if someone asks what wine i like to drink or when i lived in london, etc..and other boring details

[Edited by jefhatfield on 11-24-2001 at 11:24 PM]

[MacAztec]

SPG, when a NEW machine comes out (g5, imac2, etc.) what do you think is up my ally? I was thinking a tower, not too expensive, maybe used but nice. That will have all the room for things to come. But a G4 iMac or something of that sort would be pretty nifty too!


As for this JJ crap, just stop arguing about crap people. I am using this site to hear about macs and peoples opinions, not to watch people argue. If you want to do that, go on the DREADFUL AOL!!

Oh yeah, anyone know about the Palm Desert Golf Cart Parade? Streaming Digital Productions (www.streamingproductions.net) just webcasted it 2 weeks ago. Its a big thing, so it will be edited with FINAL CUT PRO, and be on the web in two weeks. Right now you can watch last years!

[SPG]

What machine? Depends on your budget, what you need to do with it and what's available.
Forum wars...for the most part they are pretty dull, but hidden in there is some really good info being thrown around. I'll admit that I don't know too much about chip architecture, but I think that I've picked up some interesting little pieces from these battles and now can understand the mac lineup better for it.
jef, keep posting as long winded as you like and feel free to put in whatever personal details you like, it gives this place a little more human touch. Also I wouldn't worry about it coming back at you, you are far too diplomatic to get into one of these little pissing contests. Anyway I gotta get back to packing boxes...see you guys in a couple days. Stay out of trouble.

[john123]

Fellow Macheads:

I feel that I must confess and repent my sins.

It is true that I am "joeyj." I do not know why I have created this alter-ego -- perhaps it is to counter for my lacking love life, or exceptionally small genitalia, or inferior intellect. But whatever excuses may lay deep within, I apologize profusely for my deception and attempts to create an alter ego. I promise that it shall not happen again.

[joey j]

john123> Fellow Macheads:

> I feel that I must confess and repent my sins.

> It is true that I am "joeyj." I do not know why I have created this
alter-ego -- perhaps it is to counter for my lacking love life, or
exceptionally small genitalia, or inferior intellect. But whatever
excuses may lay deep within, I apologize profusely for my deception and
attempts to create an alter ego. I promise that it shall not happen
again.


You really want to keep this one going, don't you? :p I'll send two
Mercedes-loads of... Greeks... (big hairy mean-looking ones) to jef's
house then... I wonder if they accept kalamata olives as payment? 8-)

[I envision that now I/we now truly do belong to the ages. Enjoy the
feeling... good hmm? :p]

[jefhatfield]

we have members of literally every nation, continent, region, wine growing apellation, and creed in our family...africa, japan, okinawa, england, ireland, scotland, sicily, northern italy, greece, germany, lithuania, israel, russia, and macedonia

yes, and macedonia

so it you send an invasion force my way, i'll bring over alexander the great and his posse to open up a can of whoopass on you

and j, thanks for the touching jimmy swaggart confession

[britboy]

congrats on the 400!

[jefhatfield]

thank you, but did i beat spikey?

well, if not, there is always 500