I've tried Jaguar... and I don't like it

[McFreggle]

Hey everybody,

I just installed the Jaguar release on a test system, and I thought it might be interesting to share some experiences. If you don't find it interesting: suits me fine; ignore the thread...

I'm not quite as happy as I thought I would be... I know it's still a Preview version, but it seems that the definitive version will still lack a couple of important features... :(

First of all: maybe someone else pointed this out allready, but in the Startup Disk System Preference, it says 'OS X 10.2'. Well, I know it doesn't mean anything, it can still change, but it's there all right (for what it's worth). By the way... The system profiler also tells me it's OS X 10.2.

Let me also say that Jaguar has lots of improvements, before I go to the negative points... I'm very, very, very happy with the overall speed (testsystem: iMac G3 400, 128 MB, where it was very hard to run OS X 10.1.5). Also, nice cosmetic improvements, and better system preferences. I think speed is the best improvement of all... Oh yeah, and the spring loaded folders work just fine :D

But I have been waiting for some other improvements as well, and they don't seem to be there...

still no dynamic refreshing of the Finder. I mean: when you delete a file from e.g. your Desktop with e.g. the Terminal, the file remains visible until you explicitely click the Desktop. The same for downloaded files... a file isn't visible on the desktop until Finder takes focus. Is this so hard to implement?
Energy Saver! I have been waiting for quite a long time now for the Energy Saver features of OS 9. In OS 9 you can schedule different settings for Power or Battery. OS X 10.2... still nothing. One setting to rule them all...
Disk Copy goddammit! In OS 9 it was soooooooo easy to make a disk image... You put all your stuff in a folder, you drag the folder to Disk Copy, and you have your Disk Image of the folder. Does anybody know how to do this in OS X?? I don't, and it's still not present in OS X 10.2.
Still some cosmetic bugs, but I take it this _will_ be solved in the final release.


*Sigh* Maybe I'm whining, but these are just my experiences after waiting a long time for this big release and then being a bit dissapointed. Sure, it's a big upgrade, but it's not that big.

I wouldn't be surprised if it will be OS X 10.2. It certainly won't be OS XI - the upgrade isn't big enough for that.

Also, there is still a chance it won't be a paid upgrade, I think...
A small chance, that is...

Well... those are my experiences... Back to work!

k.

[arn]

Originally posted by McFreggle

Disk Copy goddammit! In OS 9 it was soooooooo easy to make a disk image... You put all your stuff in a folder, you drag the folder to Disk Copy, and you have your Disk Image of the folder. Does anybody know how to do this in OS X?? I don't, and it's still not present in OS X 10.2.

k.

I'm not sure if this is what you want... but try...

Launch Disk Copy
Image -> New Blank Image

and then when it mounts, just copy your files to it.

arn

[Nipsy]

I think Apple is aiming at implementing features that people are screaming about, and speed.

The uproar over Spring Loaded Folders was unexpected, as column view was thought to replace them, and that has been addressed. The uproar over general Finder speed has also been addressed.

With smaller feature like those you describe, the best way to see them implemented is to get a lot of people to mail the bug report/feature request to Apple.

While posting here feels good, it doesn't let the developers know what the public wants. Apple legal may check here often, but Apple dev prolly don't!

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by arn


I'm not sure if this is what you want... but try...

Launch Disk Copy
Image -> New Blank Image

and then when it mounts, just copy your files to it.


No this isn't what I wanted... the disadvantage was that you had to say how big your image would be. The OS 9 method was much easier: just drag a folder to the Disk Copy.

Anyway, I have been looking a bit further now, and I discovered something... In the new Disk Copy, there is a new option File --> New --> From folder. There you can choose a folder to image (this is not as easy as just dropping the folder on the icon, but that's not the problem now). This seems to be what I'm looking for, so this feature is included, then...
It doesn't work properly, but again, I take it this is just because of the Beta release.
I really hope they get this working fine.

So you can erase that from my negative list. In stead I have a new item :D
The Grab utility still doesn't work properly to make a screen dump of just one window in stead of the whole screen or a part you draw with your mouse...

Oh well... we'll see.

See ya

k.

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by Nipsy
With smaller feature like those you describe, the best way to see them implemented is to get a lot of people to mail the bug report/feature request to Apple.

While posting here feels good, it doesn't let the developers know what the public wants. Apple legal may check here often, but Apple dev prolly don't!

Okay... I'll discuss these issues with Steve next time I see him...

:D

k.

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by McFreggle


Okay... I'll discuss these issues with Steve next time I see him...

:D

k.

Since I hear he's kinda busy, try
http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

[edesignuk]

Take a look at this for some dmg tools:
http://www.versiontracker.com/mp/new_search.m?productDB=mac&mode=Quick&OS_Filter=MacOSX&search=dmg
There are some there that you can drag the files into the app to create the image, e.g:
DropDMG 1.5
DMG Maker 1.1.6
DMG Tool 2.6

[j763]

Apple can only add so many features per release and the stuff you're mentioning is so minor... It's not a big deal and it's really no reason to say that you don't like Jaguar because of minor little things like Desktop refreshing...

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by j763
Apple can only add so many features per release and the stuff you're mentioning is so minor... It's not a big deal and it's really no reason to say that you don't like Jaguar because of minor little things like Desktop refreshing...

Hmmmm it's something that might seem very minor, but I find it extremely annoying in daily use.

And the energy saver issue is also not-so-minor, if you ask me...

k.

[Backtothemac]

Well, overall I would have to say that you are moaning about petty stuff. Look, what is important is speed, and performace. Those have been addressed, along with multiple other problems that have plagued X since its Public Beta days. Now, that being said, you have to remember that the core of 9 had many, many years of advances. X, however is only one year out there. Give it time, it will get to where you want it. But I can say that it is so much better than Winblows right now.

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, overall I would have to say that you are moaning about petty stuff. Look, what is important is speed, and performace. Those have been addressed, along with multiple other problems that have plagued X since its Public Beta days. Now, that being said, you have to remember that the core of 9 had many, many years of advances. X, however is only one year out there. Give it time, it will get to where you want it. But I can say that it is so much better than Winblows right now.

Hey everybody... don't get me wrong... I'm not saying the OS sux... I certainly will upgrade as soon as it's available... I'm just... yeah, maybe I'm moaning and whining a bit, but I'm just saying that there are some things still missing (hey we need a reason for OS X 10.3, don't we?) and that it isn't a supermajor upgrade.

But I admit... the speed is impressive (correction: the speed is finally what it should be), and it's a hell of an OS!

Hooray!

k.

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by McFreggle


Hey everybody... don't get me wrong... I'm not saying the OS sux... I certainly will upgrade as soon as it's available... I'm just... yeah, maybe I'm moaning and whining a bit, but I'm just saying that there are some things still missing (hey we need a reason for OS X 10.3, don't we?) and that it isn't a supermajor upgrade.

But I admit... the speed is impressive (correction: the speed is finally what it should be), and it's a hell of an OS!

Hooray!

k.

Now you are talking. We have to be paitent on this. Imagine 10.5 running on a dual 3 GHZ machine. Now, doesn't that put a smile on your face? Oh, love the sig, just don't let eye see it. :p

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by McFreggle


Instead I have a new item :D
The Grab utility still doesn't work properly to make a screen dump of just one window in stead of the whole screen or a part you draw with your mouse...

Oh well... we'll see.

See ya

k.

for the part you draw with your mouse, just use cmd+option+4 and draw the square. it will take a snapshot of it.

[yogi477]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
But I can say that it is so much better than Winblows right now.

Indeed, no doubt, so whereas we are wanting slight improvements, PeeCee users need a whole new OS and I can't see Mr. Gates trying that again after "Fisher Price" XP. At least not until the G5 has sent Intel into recievership.

[Kid Red]

Some things missing? Uh, gee, yea, it's not even an alpha much less a beta dn you're whining about things missing? Jesus christ you whiners kill me. Why don't you wait for the RC or the GM before whining about what's there. This is for developers to test their apps, not chat online, not watch dvds and do all kinds of daily activities as this is NOT an OS to use daily.

When it is, then you may bitch without looking like a premature whiner.

[Rower_CPU]

I'm actuallly happy with the improvements they've made to the Energy Saver.

Yes, we still don't have scheduling, but at least now there are presets for portables, as well as custom settings and auto-detection of battery or AC power.:D

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I'm actuallly happy with the improvements they've made to the Energy Saver.

Yes, we still don't have scheduling, but at least now there are presets for portables, as well as custom settings and auto-detection of battery or AC power.:D

I agree with Rower on this one. I think it is a vast improvement over what 10.1 was. Now there is another thing to consider. Do you really think that Steve is going to show everything that 10.2 is going to have in a developer preview? Dont' count on it. There will be suprises in the retail of 10.2

[mr.w]

remember how much was missing in the first version of OSX, you couldn't burn CD's easily, and you couldn't even watch DVD's, but in 10.1 everything was fixed. I wouldn't expect 10.2 to be perfict, but within 3 monthf of release, we should be expecting an update 10.2.1 or something, where apple will compile all of the complaints or input and fix the problems. I guess no operating system is perfect, but i think that OSX is on it's way to being pretty damn close. Just give x.2 a while and i'm sure you'll be happy...

[mc68k]

Are you all running WWDC, 6C35, or 6C48?

I'm running 6C35 exclusively, and have no qualms other than no ability to change my icons w/o hacking them (but it's an alpha, i know...)

[merman637]

i completely agree with the need for desktop refreshing...i work in a production environment and having to click on and off of the desktop several times to get the file to appear is very frustrating.....on another note i also find while using software in classic i have problems saving to the desktop or importing files from the desktop...it tells me the disk could not be found.....what the crap is that?! it's the desktop not an ejected disk.!!!??..and one more thing for God's sake....when i set my preferences for a window i expect them to stay that way....instead when i log out/in i (aggrivatingly) find my desktop arranged however X wants it to be and my windows return to their previous unsorted setting(with icoins overlapping)this only happens in certain window(HD) (desktop) what's the deal-io with that?!....FLAME ON.

[yogi477]

Originally posted by merman637
when i set my preferences for a window i expect them to stay that way....instead when i log out/in i (aggrivatingly) find my desktop arranged however X wants it to be and my windows return to their previous unsorted setting(with icoins overlapping)this only happens in certain window(HD) (desktop) what's the deal-io with that?!....FLAME ON.

I have the same problem with the applications window, why does this happen with one window and not all of them? Please help if this is fixable somebody because it is very annoying. Cheers Fellas

[Rower_CPU]

The fix that an Apple rep told me is the following.

Open a window you wish to modify the settings for, change the settings and then immediately close the window (navigating to new folders will lose the settings).

From now on the window should open exactly as you left it.

[yogi477]

It stays like that until I restart then the setting is lost but I have tried this so I will see what happens after I have restarted later on. Thanks

[merman637]

immediately closing the window does nothing after i restart the same thing happens...it has been this way since X.0.......very annoying

i think i have trying everything(including holding my mouth in different positions) to get it to remember I am the master...(sigh) but to no avail................

[Rower_CPU]

It works fine for me...

How are you navigating to the folders?

Plus, network drives seem to always go to the default settings...

[merman637]

im double clicking on my Hd icon....???
it's not networked...im set as the administrator...the setting is not as global...and i have it in icon view(any other way wouldnt give me that problem...the problem come when i want it sorted...(by date per say) it works fine all day long unless i restart or until the next day after restarting...then it goes back to it's random arrangement(same arrangement every time) fyi...my desktop used to do the exact same thing i would arrange my HD so that it was on top(standard i thought) and then after restarting my HD icon would be on the bottom and my desktop would be rearranged....somewhere along the way it stopped doing this though now its down to my actual HD window and 1-2 other random windows.......very curious

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by merman637
im double clicking on my Hd icon....???
it's not networked...im set as the administrator...the setting is not as global...and i have it in icon view(any other way wouldnt give me that problem...the problem come when i want it sorted...(by date per say) it works fine all day long unless i restart or until the next day after restarting...then it goes back to it's random arrangement(same arrangement every time) fyi...my desktop used to do the exact same thing i would arrange my HD so that it was on top(standard i thought) and then after restarting my HD icon would be on the bottom and my desktop would be rearranged....somewhere along the way it stopped doing this though now its down to my actual HD window and 1-2 other random windows.......very curious

This was a known problem in the first revisons of X and X.1. X.2 is supposed to fix this problem, although the problem persists in my WWDC copy. Now, I can say that 10.1.5 has stoped doing that, and if I am not mistaken, this was limited to laptops. Crazy, but that is what Apple said when I called them about it on my iBook, cuz my iMac doesnt' do it.

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by Kid Red
Some things missing? Uh, gee, yea, it's not even an alpha much less a beta dn you're whining about things missing? Jesus christ you whiners kill me. Why don't you wait for the RC or the GM before whining about what's there. This is for developers to test their apps, not chat online, not watch dvds and do all kinds of daily activities as this is NOT an OS to use daily.

When it is, then you may bitch without looking like a premature whiner.

Now, no need to get rude.

I completely agree when you say it's a beta. But there's a difference between things that are present but don't work properly (the whole OS is still rather buggy, but I'm not complaining about that) and things that really aren't present at all. And I don't expect those things to be present in the final release.

Oh well, nevermind. Yes, I am a whiner, and yes I don't have patience.

And worst of all: I own two PC's.
Now I'm a complete bastard.

k.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by merman637
im double clicking on my Hd icon....???
it's not networked...im set as the administrator...the setting is not as global...and i have it in icon view(any other way wouldnt give me that problem...the problem come when i want it sorted...(by date per say) it works fine all day long unless i restart or until the next day after restarting...then it goes back to it's random arrangement(same arrangement every time) fyi...my desktop used to do the exact same thing i would arrange my HD so that it was on top(standard i thought) and then after restarting my HD icon would be on the bottom and my desktop would be rearranged....somewhere along the way it stopped doing this though now its down to my actual HD window and 1-2 other random windows.......very curious

There are other ways to navigate to folders, my young padawan learner...

You could create an alias of the folder you want to have a certain layout...

You can also use keyboard shortcuts to jump to common folders (Home, Applications, etc.)...

The problem lies in that there are multiple ways to open a folder, and opening via different methods will give you different results.:)

[Choppaface]

although finder refreshing is an issue that *REALLY* needs to be addressed (lets hope that the guy they got from Be will do that for us :D :D), at least its not as bad as XP is at times. sometimes on my XP box it will give me a little window with a status bar just to move files to the trash (and its not my hard drive..I have a 100gb jumbo buffer western digital in this thing). other times it takes a while for it to report to the user than an unsuccessfully moved file is being used by something else. I'm just saying that although apple really needs to fix this, the problem could be worse/more annoying.

[merman637]

im not using a laptop i have a DP800
and its not like im asking for something dramatic....i just want my icons to stay where i put them....not some weird folder...my HD folder...ive updated to 10.1.5...and everything is the same....ive tried going into 9 and rebuiding desktop...and from X rebuilding 9's desktop.....makeing setting changes and immediately closing window, then restarting...etc......any better ideas?

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by merman637
im not using a laptop i have a DP800
and its not like im asking for something dramatic....i just want my icons to stay where i put them....not some weird folder...my HD folder...ive updated to 10.1.5...and everything is the same....ive tried going into 9 and rebuiding desktop...and from X rebuilding 9's desktop.....makeing setting changes and immediately closing window, then restarting...etc......any better ideas?

As I said, it is a laptop issue. Apple is aware of the problem, and it is supposed to be addressed in X.2

[nicos]

About all the negative things people like to say about the dock, I've not yet seen one issue: the fact that finder and applications windows don't give a merde of the dock: when they open, they shamelessly walk over the poor thing.

Does 10.2 give the dock the recognition it deserves?

Am I the only one to hate see this happen?

I do have an iBook and therefore little screen space...

Ciao

Nicos

[G4scott]

Originally posted by yogi477


Indeed, no doubt, so whereas we are wanting slight improvements, PeeCee users need a whole new OS and I can't see Mr. Gates trying that again after "Fisher Price" XP. At least not until the G5 has sent Intel into recievership.

I don't want to sound like I like windoze... I don't... Ok... now, as far as m$ and their OS updates, the next big windoze is codenamed: "longhorn" and will be out around no earlier than 2006. By this time, I would hope to have G5's in iBooks, or consumer machines, and G6's (or whatever the next gen processor is. This G- stuff is getting kinda old... kinda like P1, PII, PIII...) I think that 3 and a half years is enough time for Apple to convert the masses...

Windoze has jumped around with OS's... They had 3.1, which was basically a GUI for DOS, there was the 95-ME series, the NT-2000-XP phase, and now this new one. Apple will have only gone through 2 types of OS's, while m$ will have gone through at least 3 or 4... stupid microsoft...

[drastik]

HHMMM

Chane the G-designation? SOunds ggod in theory, spark the market a little bit, the hey whats this new stuff angle. People are lately obsessed by numbers, though, so that will have to kep convention. Perhaps the new chips should be called... Wintel Sux 8

[Grokgod]

Now don't get me wrong, Ilike you, your a good guy.

BUT~ you have OSx running on a G3 and your happy with the speed but unhappy with 10.2!>?

Well that is quite whiney!

Speed is all I care about at this point, other things will come as the the os matures.
I want to see the speed that an UNIX workstation should have!
I want to scroll fast and happy. I want SNAP and ZOOM.
I want what a freakin 3 thousand dollars computer should feel like.!

If you saying that is going all that on a G3 then I am very happy.

All those other things will come , its time to speed this baby up so that everyone will move to X from 9.
I read somewhere that there is still about half of the users in 9.

Even though that was the funeral!

[McFreggle]

Originally posted by Grokgod
Now don't get me wrong, Ilike you, your a good guy.

BUT~ you have OSx running on a G3 and your happy with the speed but unhappy with 10.2!>?

Well that is quite whiney!

Hey, it's okay, I got over it allready... :D

It was just that I was a bit dissapointed the moment I got my Jaguar and I immediately tried some things out I expected. I guess it will turn out okay...

Yeah, the speed was good on my iBook G3...

k.

[idkew]

Originally posted by yogi477


I have the same problem with the applications window, why does this happen with one window and not all of them? Please help if this is fixable somebody because it is very annoying. Cheers Fellas


The problem is that you do not own that window. Root does. Login as root, set every window how you want it, and then it *should* stay that way. Sucks kinda, but it works.

[Funkatation]

Every folder has a file called .DS_Store, thats what stores the information of how big the window is, what view you have, where the icons are etc. try trashing that (via rm command in terminal) see if that helps, could be that file has just gotten corrupted.

[mc68k]

Originally posted by nicos
Does 10.2 give the dock the recognition it deserves?
Yes it does. The only thing I don't like about the dock is that they changed the right/middle/left pdf implementation. Now I can't hack my dock. It's semi-opague and ugly. The transparent dock does not work on it either.