Marijauna

[glocke12]

Just curious what people think of pot on here. Not in a legal sense either.

[jmann]

I approve of it ;)

[redAPPLE]

you mean marijuana, right? or is that typo intended to prevent the "bad words" police deleting the thread?

never tried it. one thing i approve of it is, it doesn't make you aggressive (i was told), unlike alcohol.

[glocke12]

you mean marijuana, right? or is that typo intended to prevent the "bad words" police deleting the thread?

whatever... I didnt realize we get gold stars on here for correct spelling.

[rdowns]

Dude, got any more Zesty Taco/Chipotle Ranch Doritos?

[sushi]

Never tried it. Don't plan on ever trying it.

[leekohler]

I think it should be legal. However, it does make me stupid and unmotivated. I hate it. LSD and shrooms though...;)

On the other hand, some people find it inspiring. It does different things to different people. I don't think it's anyone's right to make a plant illegal.

Actually glocke, I'm surprised you started this thread. I would think you'd hate anything drug-related.

Regardless- I think most drugs are something people grow out of. You learn from the experience and move on. Some people get trapped by them too, no doubt.

[bartelby]

I used to smoke it and have hash brownies but like most things like that continual use bored me, to the point that one day I just stopped and I've never had it again.
Same happened with cigarettes and drinking alcohol with the aim to get a smashed as possible*...




* I still drink booze but nowhere near the quantity and frequency I used to.


But I don't think it should be illegal. It's way less damaging than alcohol.

[glocke12]

I think it should be legal. However, it does make me stupid and unmotivated. I hate it. LSD and shrooms though...;)

On the other hand, some people find it inspiring. It does different things to different people. I don't think it's anyone's right to make a plant illegal.

Actually glocke, I'm surprised you started this thread. I would think you'd hate anything drug-related.

Regardless- I think most drugs are something people grow out of. You learn from the experience and move on. Some people get trapped by them too, no doubt.


hahah...nothing is as it appears Lee..

I wouldnt go so far as to say I "love" drugs, but I do think they have their place, and I do think they are a useful tool, but Ive come to realize that with everything, moderation is key...

I've smoked more than my share (and probably more than your share) of ganja in the past, only the sticky, stinky kind though. I like shrooms also. Although these days I really prefer to take it easy on my brain and am trying to stay as sober and clear headed as possible.

Im a musician, and play in a couple of bands that are of the jam band genre, so I get exposed to alot. Some of what I see concerns me and has helped push me towards my recent pursuit of 100% sobriety.

[bartelby]

Im a musician, and play in a couple of bands that are of the jam band genre, so I get exposed to alot. Some of what I see concerns me and has helped push me towards my recent pursuit of 100% sobriety.

I was in a stoner rock band for a few years after I stopped smoking. The others smoked more than enough. I always said I was in a passive stoner rock band.

[itcheroni]

I think it's fantastic, but not for everyone.

[yoyo5280]

I can understand why people would...for health reasons and for pleasure.

But i have never, and dont plan on it.

[iObama]

Never tried it, and never will. It's changed too many people I know for the worse.

[velocityg4]

You need another option for "use to smoke, just got tired of it"

I use to smoke it a lot. Then about six years ago a lost interest and have not smoked since. The cannabis club was great.

I don't know where the argument of using it as a painkiller comes from. I remember smashing my finger pretty bad. So I tried using it as a painkiller and it just made it much worst. Not only was it still painful but all I could think of after smoking was the throbbing pain

[dukebound85]

never done it and thank god i didnt as my background check inquired about it

i do not understand SAFER's (http://www.saferchoice.org/) logic honestly. trying to legalize it by saying alcohol's more dangerous.....

utter amazed at how this crap goes on here in colorado
http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/apr/20/cus-420-pot-smoke-out-draws-10000/

[BrettFarve04]

I rather be high and fly...then drink and drive ;)

[Neil321]

Cant get enough of it, smoke it nearly on a daily basis

[takao]

Never Tried It. i never simply bother enough to do so.
Also it involves smoking which i never tried either.

also just like cigarettes it smells awfully bad

[EvanLugh]

Some people need to get out lol.. I used to smoke it for both medical and recreational purposes. I was thinking about having a few every now and again but my job puts me on the right side of the law. Hmm what to do? :(

[iJohnHenry]

This was my only option, as I don't smoke, and the 3 puffs of a cigarette I took as a 12-year-old left a lasting "impression".

Did try a brownie once, but the "cook" couldn't boil water successfully. All seeds and stems. Disgusting.

[ErikCLDR]

I don't know if it should be legalized but it should be decriminalized, meaning if you're caught with it they fine you and take it from you and thats it.

The police would never go for legalization because you can't easily test it like blood alcohol content.

[ucfgrad93]

Never tried it. Don't plan on ever trying it.

Same here.

[Mord]

Where's the option for "tried it a few times, didn't like it"? I don't see where it gets fun to sit about doing bugger all not being arsed to go find something interesting to do.

Then again the majority of recreational drugs I've tried don't work as advertised, I probably have odd brain chemistry or something.

[glocke12]

Where's the option for "tried it a few times, didn't like it"? I don't see where it gets fun to sit about doing bugger all not being arsed to go find something interesting to do.

Then again the majority of recreational drugs I've tried don't work as advertised, I probably have odd brain chemistry or something.

that would be poll question number 2.

[leekohler]

hahah...nothing is as it appears Lee..

I wouldnt go so far as to say I "love" drugs, but I do think they have their place, and I do think they are a useful tool, but Ive come to realize that with everything, moderation is key...

I've smoked more than my share (and probably more than your share) of ganja in the past, only the sticky, stinky kind though. I like shrooms also. Although these days I really prefer to take it easy on my brain and am trying to stay as sober and clear headed as possible.

Im a musician, and play in a couple of bands that are of the jam band genre, so I get exposed to alot. Some of what I see concerns me and has helped push me towards my recent pursuit of 100% sobriety.

I used to sing in punk bands back in the 80's/early 90's, so I know what you mean. People get carried away with things. I grew out of that stuff a long time ago. Nothing negative happened, I just didn't feel the desire to do it any longer. It was fun while it lasted, though.

[zioxide]

Weed is great. Honestly, there's nothing more relaxing than sitting back with a few friends and smokin a bowl while listening to music.

Did try a brownie once, but the "cook" couldn't boil water successfully. All seeds and stems. Disgusting.

I hope your "cook" wasn't trying to extract the THC in to water... because THC isn't water soluble. You need to extract the THC in to oil...


On November 4th Massachusetts voted to decriminalize possession of an ounce or less of marijuana. It just went in to effect on Friday :D

[bruinsrme]

Sure did it up until I went into the Navy, that was 21 years ago.

My mom lost her battle to cancer. I knew she was smoking but at the time didn't understand why.

Now I do.

There is a difference between using it for a need, using it responsibily, and using it irresponsibily.

[themoonisdown09]

Never tried it and don't plan on it. I've got plenty of friends that smoke it... some that do it a couple times a day. I do think it should be legalized here.

[ntrigue]

Having a girlfriend in with Cannibus Card has turned me into a luxury smoker. We only smoke the finest and almost exclusively use a vaporizer. I can go without for weeks (even had a 4-year dry spell) but normal use is 8 times a month.

I am starting to train for a triathlon next month and I will stop smoking for the duration.

[Much Ado]

My uncle once took some, but his life soon went to pot.

ding-ding

[redwarrior]

I could never get used to smoking it; I can't smoke anything, which I consider a good thing. I do enjoy "homemade" brownies. It's been about 10 years since I had any though. I was once married to a very heavy user; he couldn't function unless he smoked several times a day, or so he thought. It cost so much money, that we started dealing to pay for his habit.

I think it should be legalized. I don't understand why alcohol is legal but marijuana isn't.

[zap2]

Never tried it, don't really want to


But legalize it!!

And tax it!

[Cassie]

I've done it a few times before, plan to do it again. It's a rare thing for me though, maybe once every two or three months. It's enjoyable if you don't overdo it.

[j26]

I used to smoke it a fair bit when I was younger. I just got out of the scene for a while and now I will smoke it if offered, but I wouldn't bother going looking for it.

I think it should be legalised and taxed. There would be a saving in enfircement costs, and additional tax revenues.

[iSaint]

Regardless- I think most drugs are something people grow out of. You learn from the experience and move on. Some people get trapped by them too, no doubt.

I tried a handful of times in my younger years. I never really liked it.

I have a good friend that still smokes (probably) daily, if not more often. We're 46 now. He's very smug about how much he can do it and how no one can tell when he's under the influence. His family, including his wife, do not know. He is also a priest, and in charge of a rather large parish.

He says he's smoked since he was 14.

He has also smoked (and does) with parishioners, other priests, and young people that have been under his care/influence.

I, too, would think (people) he would have grown out of this. I don't think it's very cool. I never got a lot out of it, nor do I drink much anymore because I think it makes you a different person.

Why a priest would need something to get him through the day is beyond me. There's probably a lot more people that smoke that I'm naive about.

:confused:

I teach high school. I'm sure a good third of the population is stoned on a daily basis. I don't understand society's unwillingness to battle drug use and drug dealing.

[leekohler]

I tried a handful of times in my younger years. I never really liked it.

I have a good friend that still smokes (probably) daily, if not more often. We're 46 now. He's very smug about how much he can do it and how no one can tell when he's under the influence. His family, including his wife, do not know. He is also a priest, and in charge of a rather large parish.

He says he's smoked since he was 14.

He has also smoked (and does) with parishioners, other priests, and young people that have been under his care/influence.

I, too, would think (people) he would have grown out of this. I don't think it's very cool. I never got a lot out of it, nor do I drink much anymore because I think it makes you a different person.

Why a priest would need something to get him through the day is beyond me. There's probably a lot more people that smoke that I'm naive about.

:confused:

I teach high school. I'm sure a good third of the population is stoned on a daily basis. I don't understand society's unwillingness to battle drug use and drug dealing.

Your friend needs to grow up. That's kind of ridiculous.

[Mord]

that would be poll question number 2.

There was negative interest happening not merely "not much".

It's not like I got paranoid or smoked too much, I just fundamentally find the effects unenjoyable.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Society has spent billions for nothing on this one, its time to legalize and tax the crap out of it. The laws around weed are built on lies,politics and spin and going after illegal mexicans from years ago. The illegals got in but weed is still" a major crime" Its time we free the law system to go after the real criminals not these made up pretend ones.

If it was legalized and not so politically incorrect i'd be burning one.

A much better buzz then alcohol and much much safer, thats why its been made illegal. To easy to grow, and to safe to use thats why those in power have found new ways for us to fear it. That way they make $$$ keeping it illegal and growing the police state all at the same time. Its a Lie govt keeps pushing.

[zachplaysguitar]

I do it quite often when I have nothing important going on. At school I tend to shy away from it in the interest of keeping my mind clear and getting good grades. It should definitely be legal by now.

[cycocelica]

I wouldn't say I love it, but I do it on occasion. It's more of a social thing, I don't do it by myself or never have the urge to just smoke.

[NT1440]

Why a priest would need something to get him through the day is beyond me. There's probably a lot more people that smoke that I'm naive about.

:confused:


Well, it cant exactly be a fun life.

As far as its integrated into his profession, thats completely unacceptable.

[bobber205]

The day cigarettes and tobacco in general is illegal, then we can start talking about weed. Until then, we're huge hypocrites for allowing one and not the other.

[iJohnHenry]

Well, it cant exactly be a fun life.

Yes, laughing out loud, to the tales of someone's confession, would be off-putting. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/MouseMeat/Smilies/m1.gif

The day cigarettes and tobacco in general is illegal, then we can start talking about weed. Until then, we're huge hypocrites for allowing one and not the other.

And you can bet those industries are paying BIG lobby "fees" to prevent legalisation from happening. I can't grow tobacco, I'm not allowed to distil, but even I can grow-my-own. ;)

[edesignuk]

I'm partial to a toke.

Tobacco has never interested me in the slightest, actually just tried it out of complete curiosity for the first time a couple of weeks ago (25 years old!) and hated it.

Booze is enjoyable enough while you're drinking it, but the second you stop it's all down hill from there.

For me the feeling of weed is similar to booze, only better, without the nasty side effects.

FREE THE WEED!

With Jacqui Smith in charge, there's no hope...

[zachplaysguitar]

I'm partial to a toke.

Booze is enjoyable enough while you're drinking it, but the second you stop it's all down hill from there.

For me the feeling of weed is similar to booze, only better, without the nasty side effects.

FREE THE WEED!


I agree with this. After a night of drinking I almost always wake up with my head throbbing and feel sick all day. With pot the worst that happens I feel groggy and perhaps a little forgetful. It seems odd to me when people prefer alcohol, excluding the legality issue.

[jmann]

I'm partial to a toke.

Tobacco has never interested me in the slightest, actually just tried it out of complete curiosity for the first time a couple of weeks ago (25 years old!) and hated it.

Booze is enjoyable enough while you're drinking it, but the second you stop it's all down hill from there.

For me the feeling of weed is similar to booze, only better, without the nasty side effects.

FREE THE WEED!

With Jacqui Smith in charge, there's no hope...

I completely agree, drinking is okay but the hangovers aren't worth it. I love that weed has no crappy after-effects. :D

Society has spent billions for nothing on this one, its time to legalize and tax the crap out of it. The laws around weed are built on lies,politics and spin and going after illegal mexicans from years ago. The illegals got in but weed is still" a major crime" Its time we free the law system to go after the real criminals not these made up pretend ones.

If it was legalized and not so politically incorrect i'd be burning one.

A much better buzz then alcohol and much much safer, thats why its been made illegal. To easy to grow, and to safe to use thats why those in power have found new ways for us to fear it. That way they make $$$ keeping it illegal and growing the police state all at the same time. Its a Lie govt keeps pushing.

It's illegal because it's all about money. People would lose money in all areas, lawyers, prison systems etc.

[Mord]

I agree with this. After a night of drinking I almost always wake up with my head throbbing and feel sick all day. With pot the worst that happens I feel groggy and perhaps a little forgetful. It seems odd to me when people prefer alcohol, excluding the legality issue.

Personally I get brain fog and disturbances in my visual field for a few days, I also find it difficult to get quality sleep as I experience recursive nightmares.

[edesignuk]

Personally I get brain fog and disturbances in my visual field for a few days, I also find it difficult to get quality sleep as I experience recursive nightmares.To be fair you've posted many times about sleep problems and nightmare problems and this that and the other. I'd hardly say the weed is to blame for your existing issues. Even if it tends to bring these out in you.

[Mord]

To be fair you've posted many times about sleep problems and nightmare problems and this that and the other. I'd hardly say the weed is to blame for your existing issues. Even if it tends to bring these out in you.

I wouldn't correlate the two, I've not had weed since those problems started, weed has a very distinctly different impact on me, it's definitely unique to me, that much is fairly clear. Besides I've not had sleep trouble in months, I figured out everything that was triggering it and now avoid them.

The brain fog was my more significant point, the sleep disturbance and residual mild hallucinations just went hand in hand with it.

[dukebound85]

I'm partial to a toke.

Tobacco has never interested me in the slightest, actually just tried it out of complete curiosity for the first time a couple of weeks ago (25 years old!) and hated it.

Booze is enjoyable enough while you're drinking it, but the second you stop it's all down hill from there.

For me the feeling of weed is similar to booze, only better, without the nasty side effects.

FREE THE WEED!

With Jacqui Smith in charge, there's no hope...

off topic but ive always had the impression you were older than 25 lol

[iBlue]

I'll confess; I'm a toker, probably a few times per week, sometimes less but rarely more.
Unlike other chemicals, some of which are widely available and legal, weed has never been damaging to my life. It gets a bad rap sometimes all too often.

Free the weed!

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/spliff.gif

[obeygiant]

Weed could solve many world problems. :) :D

[Neil321]

I've already posted my views ( love it )

but why not do both (drink & weed ) & see if you can chuck a whitey :D

[SactoGuy18]

I'll legallize it on the following conditions:

1) THC levels per gram of raw cannabis must not exceed a certain level (the cannabis people grow nowadays have such high THC levels that the dangerous side effects are much more immediate and dangerous). Smoking plain marijuana nowadays have almost the same effects as smoking hashish made from lower-THC level cannabis back in the 1960's.

2) There is a really low threshold for "being under the influence" by legal standards to discourage people from smoking cannabis and then operate any sort of machinery or go out in public. In short, don't go driving a car or go out in public places after a smoke!

3) Medical marijuana usage have to be dispensed and used inside a hospital and/or medical clinic under close supervision of a doctor or nurse.

[edesignuk]

3) Medical marijuana usage have to be dispensed and used inside a hospital and/or medical clinic under close supervision of a doctor or nurse.That's crazy. If you're lucky enough to have medical MJ, you can't force it to be taken in these circumstances. It just wouldn't work or be useful.

[Kardashian]

Your choices are really quite limiting.

I'd have gone for the "not my drug of choice - but do it occasionally".

[Blue Velvet]

I'll legallize it on the following conditions:

1) THC levels per gram of raw cannabis must not exceed a certain level (the cannabis people grow nowadays have such high THC levels that the dangerous side effects are much more immediate and dangerous).

What dangerous side-effects? Do we limit alcohol proof in this way, when the side-effects of excessive alcohol consumption include death?

[iBlue]

What dangerous side-effects? Do we limit alcohol proof in this way, when the side-effects of excessive alcohol consumption include death?

All that laughing, eating and chilling out at home... That is dangerous business, as it were. All those NUMEROUS medicinal properties and how much safer it is than many of the crap we get pedalled legally, well that is dangerous to many a cooperate and government pocketbook. Friggin criminalize that stuff and slap some government propaganda on top!

[Blue Velvet]

Myth: Marijuana Is More Potent Today Than In The Past. Adults who used marijuana in the 1960s and 1970s fail to realize that when today's youth use marijuana they are using a much more dangerous drug.

Fact: When today's youth use marijuana, they are using the same drug used by youth in the 1960s and 1970s. A small number of low-THC samples seized by the Drug Enforcement Administration are used to calculate a dramatic increase in potency. However, these samples were not representative of the marijuana generally available to users during this era. Potency data from the early 1980s to the present are more reliable, and they show no increase in the average THC content of marijuana. Even if marijuana potency were to increase, it would not necessarily make the drug more dangerous. Marijuana that varies quite substantially in potency produces similar psychoactive effects.

King LA, Carpentier C, Griffiths P. “Cannabis potency in Europe.” Addiction. 2005 Jul; 100(7):884-6
Henneberger, Melinda. "Pot Surges Back, But It’s, Like, a Whole New World." New York Times 6 February 1994: E18.
Brown, Lee. “Interview with Lee Brown,” Dallas Morning News 21 May 1995.
Drug Enforcement Administration. U.S. Drug Threat Assessment, 1993. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, 1993.
Kleiman, Mark A.R. Marijuana: Costs of Abuse, Costs of Control. Westport: Greenwood Press, 1989. 29.
Bennett, William. Director of National Drug Control Policy, remarks at Conference of Mayors. 23 April 1990.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#psych


And speaking from personal experience, some of those Thai Buddha sticks I encountered in the mid-80s were phenomenally strong, but clear. Much stronger than skunk I've had in the last few years.

[Electro Funk]

I'll legallize it on the following conditions:

1) THC levels per gram of raw cannabis must not exceed a certain level (the cannabis people grow nowadays have such high THC levels that the dangerous side effects are much more immediate and dangerous). Smoking plain marijuana nowadays have almost the same effects as smoking hashish made from lower-THC level cannabis back in the 1960's.

2) There is a really low threshold for "being under the influence" by legal standards to discourage people from smoking cannabis and then operate any sort of machinery or go out in public. In short, don't go driving a car or go out in public places after a smoke!

3) Medical marijuana usage have to be dispensed and used inside a hospital and/or medical clinic under close supervision of a doctor or nurse.

but i suppose it is OK to drive a car after a few drinks?

the most harmless "drug" on the planet, yet the most demonized...

the only thing the higher THC content does (18-20%) instead of 5-10% is allow someone to smoke or ingest less. Does amazing things for people going through chemo... actually gives them an appetite and allows them to keep food down, great for anorexia, glaucoma... the list goes on and on.

[Neil321]

And speaking from personal experience, some of those Thai Buddha sticks I encountered in the mid-80s were phenomenally strong, but clear. Much stronger than skunk I've had in the last few years.

Try getting hold of some white shark, AK-47, blue cheese or white russian, ive smoked Thai sticks before and those hybrids i listed beat it hands down ( 22% to 29% THC )

[apsterling]

Yeah, and when the entire nation is under the influence, what stops somebody sober from making a move on removing rights from a nation that's desensitized and slower mentally?

Maybe I can't speak for the condition the Marijuana imposes, but having an entire nation choosing to use seems like it could be negative.

If you set restrictions to legalize Marijuana, apply them to Alcohol, Tobacco and Marijuana. 21+ across the board, high tax rates, and DUI for Alcohol and Marijuana at a certain level of being impaired.

[zioxide]

I'll legallize it on the following conditions:

1) THC levels per gram of raw cannabis must not exceed a certain level (the cannabis people grow nowadays have such high THC levels that the dangerous side effects are much more immediate and dangerous). Smoking plain marijuana nowadays have almost the same effects as smoking hashish made from lower-THC level cannabis back in the 1960's.

If you get better ****, you'll get stoned off of less, so then you don't have to smoke as much.

And there aren't really any dangerous side effects of weed.. (unless you're a bag of cheetos :p)

In order to overdose, you'd have to smoke your body weight in like 15 minutes.

One estimate of Cannabis's LD50 for humans indicates that about 150 pounds of marijuana would have to be smoked within 15 minutes.[12] This estimate is supported by studies which indicate that the effective dose of THC is at least 1000 times lower than the estimated lethal dose (a "safety ratio" of 1000:1). This is much higher than alcohol (safety ratio of 10), cocaine (15), or heroin (6).[13]
(LD50 = lethal dose for 50% of the test subjects)

Yeah, and when the entire nation is under the influence, what stops somebody sober from making a move on removing rights from a nation that's desensitized and slower mentally?

It's not like people turn in to retarded vegetables just because they have a little smoke. I'd estimate that I can still think clearly like 9 times out of 10 when blazed. It's only when you get super stoned (brownies! :p) that you might have a little bit of trouble. However, it's still much less than if you got absolutely hammered.

If you set restrictions to legalize Marijuana, apply them to Alcohol, Tobacco and Marijuana. 21+ across the board, high tax rates, and DUI for Alcohol and Marijuana at a certain level of being impaired.
That would be fine, except none of that 21+ ********. 18+ should be the age. If you can go vote and go to war to get killed for your country, you should be able to have a drink/smoke legally. That's probably a debate for another thread though...

[SactoGuy18]

What dangerous side-effects? Do we limit alcohol proof in this way, when the side-effects of excessive alcohol consumption include death?

If you're tried a 150 proof liquor (yes, I've done it with Mao Tai liquor from China), the effects of even a half-shot (0.75 ounce) drink can be quite pronounced, to say the least. I just can't imagine why people like "white lightning" with its near-200 proof alcohol--smooth-tasting it probably isn't! Besides the medical effect of anything over 150 proof, there's also the danger that it will ignite rather easily--small wonder why Barcardi 151 rum has a fire warning on its label.

I still prefer if they legalize marijuana that we establish a limit on the THC level per gram of raw marijuana for legal use, though. The reason why I mentioned usage of medical marijuana only in a hospital or medical clinic is that in such circumstances, we can precisely meter just how much THC the patient needs. With standardized-level THC marijuana, we avoid the issue of buying marijuana "from the street" with its potentially wildly varying THC levels per gram--not to mention what other additives are in the stuff! (Remember the paraquat scare from the early 1980's?)

[Blue Velvet]

I still prefer if they legalize marijuana that we establish a limit on the THC level per gram of raw marijuana for legal use, though.

Perhaps if it was graded and labelled that might please those on both sides of this debate. I'm a grown adult, I can handle something stronger than a 5% beer. ;)

[Neil321]

I still prefer if they legalize marijuana that we establish a limit on the THC level per gram of raw marijuana for legal use, though

Why?, what's the point of someone like myself who's been chuffing away for around 24 yrs now buying something that has little or no effect, i need something that's gonna get me stoned

[iBlue]

THC limitations? If you have the choice with alcohol, which is infinitely more dangerous, then you should have the choice with legalized marijuana. A person can decide for themselves what they want out of their weed and that will be easy to decipher if the choice were there. Different strains do different stuff to you and everyone has their preferences, once they know there are options. When it's illegal, your choices can be limited to what your possibly shady dealer gives you, and who knows how it's been grown or WTF it is or what's been added or taken away. If it were legal, these things could be regulated. There isn't a lot of danger with pot but illegality increases many problems. Take it out of the hands of dodgy characters and things improve. People will always want it, only the sources change. Prohibition doesn't work.

We have a living sample of what a society living with semi-legal (or at least tolerated) marijuana is like, and it's going on swimmingly. The rate of use is lower in the netherlands. The one sure way to make people want something and watch it get out way of hand is to criminalize it. Prohibition doesn't work and it's just ridiculous when it comes to weed.
I have little hope that things will change but I wish that it would.

[Neil321]

THC limitations? If you have the choice with alcohol, which is infinitely more dangerous, then you should have the choice with legalized marijuana. A person can decide for themselves what they want out of their weed and that will be easy to decipher if the choice were there. Different strains do different stuff to you and everyone has their preferences, once they know there are options. When it's illegal, your choices can be limited to what your possibly shady dealer gives you, and who knows how it's been grown or WTF it is or what's been added or taken away. If it were legal, these things could be regulated. There isn't a lot of danger with pot but illegality increases many problems. Take it out of the hands of dodgy characters and things improve. People will always want it, only the sources change. Prohibition doesn't work.

We have a living sample of what a society living with semi-legal (or at least tolerated) marijuana is like, and it's going on swimmingly. The rate of use is lower in the netherlands. The one sure way to make people want something and watch it get out way of hand is to criminalize it. Prohibition doesn't work and it's just ridiculous when it comes to weed.
I have little hope that things will change but I wish that it would.

I've gotta agree with this ( although I'm not to sure what you mean by things added and taken away & illegality increases problems ? ) as even with home grown their is little or no risk ( with skunk anyway ).Anyway i think your second paragraph is spot on just decriminalize it for gods sake, that way like you said it can be regulated eg strains, strengh's ( THC content )type of high, like they do in say Amsterdam for instance

I) White Russian
2) AK-47
3)White Shark
4)Blue Cheese

etc etc, that way you know how strong it is and what it is going to do to your bonze when you buy it

Legalize it NOW thats what i say

[bassproguy07]

the military said i cant smoke anymore!! they apparently frown upon it!

[Dmac77]

I think that it should be legal for any type of use. They should also make LSD legal. LSD has been proven to not be addictive. Plus it's been shown to help people with chronic migraines (I'm in that group).

I have never used drugs (only 14), but I probably will try the aformentioned drugs in my lifetime.

Don

[Neil321]

the military said i cant smoke anymore!! they apparently frown upon it!

Surely that didn't come as a surprise ?

[iBlue]

I've gotta agree with this ( although I'm not to sure what you mean by things added and taken away & illegality increases problems ? ) ..

I was referring to the absolute horrible practice that is "grit weed", insufferable prick dealers adding sand, glass, metal, silicone spray, whatever to weed to add weight and make it look more quality than it is. It's a really sick thing to do and it's rather a problem in the UK from what I have heard. What I meant by having things taken away is the cheating practice of it being rolled over a screen (or something) to remove some of the "crystals", which they can then be used/added to hash. It's the marijuana equivalent of "cutting", giving less quality than was there originally. It's less of a problem than grit weed but it's still shady practice.
Oh and the illegal status causes problems for the reasons I've mentioned in these posts and more. When it's legal and regulated, it takes it out of the hands of some of the shadier peeps. Less problems all around. I think you get what I mean though.

[Neil321]

I was referring to the absolute horrible practice that is "grit weed", insufferable prick dealers adding sand, glass, metal, silicone spray, whatever to weed to add weight and make it look more quality than it is. It's a really sick thing to do and it's rather a problem in the UK from what I have heard. What I meant by having things taken away is the cheating practice of it being rolled over a screen (or something) to remove some of the "crystals", which they can then be used/added to hash. It's the marijuana equivalent of "cutting", giving less quality than was there originally. It's less of a problem than grit weed but it's still shady practice.
Oh and the illegal status causes problems for the reasons I've mentioned in these posts and more. When it's legal and regulated, it takes it out of the hands of some of the shadier peeps. Less problems all around. I think you get what I mean though.

Yer i get your drift, but I've got to be honest I've never experienced any of these problems as I've always bought my weed ( i rarely smoke hash & only if times are bad & hard) from one or two dealers all my weed smoking life. Thinking about it now though i have heard of grit weed and your right its a horrible thing. I do agree with its legal status to stamp out this sort of thing ( like what i said in the post your quote is from ) I'm just lucky i guess that i can get ***** hot weed with no risks involved

[bassproguy07]

Surely that didn't come as a surprise ?

no it did not haha lol

[Neil321]

no it did not haha lol

Well at least your swapping your weed smoking career for another one :)

[Mord]

I think that it should be legal for any type of use. They should also make LSD legal. LSD has been proven to not be addictive. Plus it's been shown to help people with chronic migraines (I'm in that group).

I have never used drugs (only 14), but I probably will try the aformentioned drugs in my lifetime.

Don

I agree in part but only if people were educated properly about the effects of psychedelics. All my drugs education left me with was a strong sense of curiosity and a ton of misconceptions, I consider myself lucky that I've never had a particularly bad experience with psychedelics as a result.

So many people think when they try such drugs that they'll be fine as they'll remember that it's all just a hallucination and that nothing can harm them, an hour later once time has fallen apart and their ego has been obliterated desperately wanting it all to stop but knowing that it never ever will.

My girlfriend took a HUGE dose of psilocybin the first time she tried psychedelics and it left her rather mentally scarred, not because of what she saw but because of what happened to her mind, the feeling of never ending trapped recursive never ending psychedelic oblivion is with her to this day, she does not believe in anything not even herself.

tryptamines definitely have their dangers but I consider it a travesty that a well informed educated person can't dive down the rabbit hole legally.

[Neil321]

Its all in the brain Mord, your gotta use the drug & not let let the drug use you :)

[iBlue]

Its all in the brain Mord, your gotta use the drug & not let let the drug use you :)

Have you ever messed with a really strong or high dose of a psychedelic/hallucinogen? Sometimes there is no differentiating from reality and what is "just in your mind." That being said, I agree with Mord, that it is a travesty that a well informed educated person can't dive down the rabbit hole legally. LSD may scare the hell out of you, but it, like marijuana, won't kill you.

[Neil321]

Have you ever messed with a really strong or high dose of a psychedelic/hallucinogen? Sometimes there is no differentiating from reality and what is "just in your mind." That being said, I agree with Mord, that it is a travesty that a well informed educated person can't dive down the rabbit hole legally. LSD may scare the hell out of you, but it, like marijuana, won't kill you.

Blue I've taken more different types of trips, schrooms etc in my time than most people have had hot dinners, i do agree with what your saying ( i think we & others had discussed this elsewhere ).I know loads of people who haven't held it together will tripping ( even got sectioned for it ) but i have never had a bad trip and have always held onto reality,I'm not saying i've come mighty close mind you

[Mord]

Its all in the brain Mord, your gotta use the drug & not let let the drug use you :)

Drop 400 mics or 40g of shrooms and get back to me on that one ;)

In all seriousness my favoured way of dealing with such things is having a strong sense of "it doesn't really matter, nothing does." so if I find myself in a timeless recursive psychedelic place It's not like I have to worry about paying the rent now do I? I don't have much trouble sitting back and enjoying the pretty colours.

(Language fails somewhat here, "I" seems wrong but I can't think how else to describe it without sounding like a mental.)

Fyi my worst and singular uniformly pants trip was just incredibly boring, I didn't have anything to do and the acid wasn't that strong but dilated time enough that it seemed like years until it ended, I'd also mixed the substance with other things rather foolishly so was a little mentally broken on top of this.

[Neil321]

Drop 400 mics or 40g of shrooms and get back to me on that one ;)

In all seriousness my favoured way of dealing with such things is having a strong sense of "it doesn't really matter, nothing does." so if I find myself in a timeless recursive psychedelic place It's not like I have to worry about paying the rent now do I? I don't have much trouble sitting back and enjoying the pretty colours.

(Language fails somewhat here, "I" seems wrong but I can't think how else to describe it without sounding like a mental.)

Fyi my worst and singular uniformly pants trip was just incredibly boring, I didn't have anything to do and the acid wasn't that strong but dilated time enough that it seemed like years until it ended, I'd also mixed the substance with other things rather foolishly so was a little mentally broken on top of this.


People have different ways of dealing with things,I've never said schrooms don't/didn't effect me ( see post above yours ) all i said was i seem to have a strong sense of being able to hold things together while tripping, thats all like i said its mind games

[Peterkro]

People kill people drugs don't kill people or some reactionary crap like that.:D

[Blue Velvet]

All this idle talk and boasting gets wearisome after a while. And please, stick to the topic. We're not really interested in your trips because, after all, each generation thinks they're the first to discover the world.

[Neil321]

All this idle talk and boasting gets wearisome after a while. And please, stick to the topic. We're not really interested in your trips because, after all, each generation thinks they're the first to discover the world.

No ones boasting BV ( i take it your talking about me ? ), just replying to mords post about trips thats all, back on topic I'm off for a joint, bye

[yojitani]

I'm all for legalization. I don't smoke it anymore because I got tired of the insufferable loser-types you have to associate with in order to get it. Either that or take your chances with some guy on the street. No thanks. I wish I could grow it legally for my own consumption. Instead, I'll settle for dark chocolate and coffee.

[Dmac77]

I agree in part but only if people were educated properly about the effects of psychedelics. All my drugs education left me with was a strong sense of curiosity and a ton of misconceptions, I consider myself lucky that I've never had a particularly bad experience with psychedelics as a result.

So many people think when they try such drugs that they'll be fine as they'll remember that it's all just a hallucination and that nothing can harm them, an hour later once time has fallen apart and their ego has been obliterated desperately wanting it all to stop but knowing that it never ever will.

My girlfriend took a HUGE dose of psilocybin the first time she tried psychedelics and it left her rather mentally scarred, not because of what she saw but because of what happened to her mind, the feeling of never ending trapped recursive never ending psychedelic oblivion is with her to this day, she does not believe in anything not even herself.

tryptamines definitely have their dangers but I consider it a travesty that a well informed educated person can't dive down the rabbit hole legally.

People need to properly educated before they take drugs that is for certain. But I really don't understand why some of them (Marijuana, LSD, Mushrooms, Ecstasy, Khat) aren't legal. A lot of doctors will say that those are safer then alcohol and tobacco. Some dugs like cocaine, heroin, and Meth should be illegal because they can harm your body really badly, and they are all highly addictive.

As with everything, the key is moderation.

Don

[synth3tik]

There is a lot of non-marijuana talk in a marijuana thread.

First off Marijuana is in a class with tea and coffee in the realm of the dangers it presents. Things such as shrooms although natural have some major side effects. Processed drugs like prescription drugs and street drugs have major side effects and draw backs.

Marijuana is a natural growing planet with some major health benefits which was only originally outlawed in the US due to corrupt politicians that wanted to curb the distribution of hemp. Up until the 1920's Marijuana was rather highly regarded. Even Thomas Jefferson writes about smoking hemp on his porch.

There is a large array of drugs (legal or otherwise) that are far worse then marijuana which has very minimal possibly negative effects.

[barkmonster]

but why not do both (drink & weed ) & see if you can chuck a whitey

I was out for a few beers in town last year, about November after 2 pints of Staropramen in 1 pub, 2 stella in the next and another 3 stellas in the final one, I went to a friends' house for a smoke. He had some skunk and we were sharing 1 small pipe between 3 of us. After about 5 minutes, I pulled the most almightly whitey since I was a teenager! It was embarrassing and the next week when I saw the same friend again, it turned out the weed had was quite old stuff that had being stored for ages, very dried out and whoever he'd got it off had dusted it with coke to give it a bit of buzz.

That really pissed me off and I haven't touched it since but before then I used to smoke it every few months personally or odd times when friends had it.

I didn't bother touching at all for most of my 20s, then after moving out and realising I didn't have the money to go out and enjoy myself as much I used to be able to and I was very tired a lot of the time, I bought a bong and started smoking weed almost ever week!

I don't think I'd got through even an oz in 1 year at any stage to be honest so I reckon I was light smoker but when I was younger, 16 or 17, I used to smoke an 8th a week and rolling tobacco with it. It took me from 18 - 25 to quit smoke that legal taxable drug, long after I'd stopped smoking weed apart from odd times when friends had it.

I suppose, I've never really quit weed since I started, I just have gaps of year on end or months on end between smoking it!

It's 6 years now since i quit smoking cigarettes and my cunning plan of putting the money I was addicted to spending every week in a savings account has failed to get me either a new Mac in the past 6 years or an LCD for the living room because I couldn't stick to it after moving out and I know at this point, even if I didn't detest the smell of tobacco, I couldn't afford to spend £40 a week on cigarettes.

£20 a few times year for a nice bag of weed is a smoking "choice" rather than a habit like cigarettes are and I wish I'd had a bong that first time I smoked weed, not a joint. It's much better in a pipe and I'd have never have become addicted to cigarettes at all.

Tobacco had a serious affect on my metabolism, I'm only about 9 and a half stone at 31 but in my mid twenties I must have looked as healthy as Christian Bale in "The Machinist" before I quit.

Just after I posted this, a film called "Thank You For Smoking" has just started on film 4 :D

[johnmartin78]

I have a theory about drug use and creativity.

When my parents were teenagers,they smoked pot,and did other things,they listened to music like Jimmy Hendrix,The Stones,The Beatles ect....and those bands also did drugs.When I was a teenager I smoked a little pot,and some other things.I listened to groups like Aerosmith,Queen,Van Halen ect...those guys all did their fair share of drugs.....

Nowadays,I see kids that don't smoke pot,or do drugs,listening to bands like..Miley Sirus,and Avril Lavigne....See where I'm going here.

Is it just that I'm now old,and think music kids listen to these days is worse than it is?.....Or are these musicians actually incredibly lame due to the lack of drug use.

[NT1440]

Nowadays,I see kids that don't smoke pot,or do drugs,listening to bands like..Miley Sirus,and Avril Lavigne....See where I'm going here.

Is it just that I'm now old,and think music kids listen to these days is worse than it is?.....Or are these musicians actually incredibly lame due to the lack of drug use.

What your listing is corporate made "stars", not lame talent due to lack of drug use.

[leishan]

Are you a cop???

just kidding...

[rasmasyean]

People need to properly educated before they take drugs that is for certain. But I really don't understand why some of them (Marijuana, LSD, Mushrooms, Ecstasy, Khat) aren't legal. A lot of doctors will say that those are safer then alcohol and tobacco. Some dugs like cocaine, heroin, and Meth should be illegal because they can harm your body really badly, and they are all highly addictive.

As with everything, the key is moderation.

Don

Well, LSD has been known for making ppl jump off buildings so to protect people from this fate...

It also has a significant chance of inducing flashbacks years afterward. Maybe even forever, who knows. I had this coworker that took LSD back in the days so I asked whether he had any flashbacks and he said "Oh really? I didn't know it does that. I do remember once taking a step down the stairs and I got really freaked out because I thought I was jumping off a cliff!" ROFL! That seems funny but I guess...what happens if he thought he was running to his late mom in the open fields while actually crossing the streets of a freeway?

So I wouldn't doubt LSD and equivalents have contributed their fair share of ghost sitings. But how else are you supposed to speak with jesus. :p

As for weed and related...one thing I didn't see mentioned is the fact that this introduces the weeds to your environment where people around you "smoke it" reluctantly. So if you smoke it in the living room with your kids around...never mind everyone else.

A lot of stuff that "effects your brain" sometimes can be hard to measure. I mean, unless you got a twin who was abstinent to compare with. Even lead poisoning to the extreme makes kids retarded...but what about all those in between...how would you know since some ppl are dumber than others anyway. But no doubt it is a fairly accepted fact and documented that it messes you up in this fashion to whatever extent depending on the case. A friend of mine who failed out of school blamed his friends for getting him "drinking" because he felt that the alcohol reduced his brain capacity. He was a strait A student in high school. So did it have this effect on this person? Hard to say, because he was a real nerd in HS and we went to college with a difficulty that was always in the national tops. Since he tried to "study a lot more" and didn't make it in an environment where some ppl with talent didn't even study in HS (but now studied a bit more) it could be because he wasn't built for it anyway...but did the alcohol contribute any? Hard to say...

But yeah, I know many people don't give a crap about their brains and body anyway...and rather just enjoy themselves. :o

[Dagless]

Never tried it. Don't plan on ever trying it.

Ditto.

I was at a concert once up in the rafters, some people in front were smoking something (never did find out). The whole ride home I was feeling really odd and silly in my head and didn't like that one bit. So no. But I don't drink either - I like my head all stable and such. And seeing what even "weak" drugs did to my brother... Nah. I'll pass thanks.

And about creativity... I run a little 2 man independent game studio where I whip up art (which includes characters, locations, settings), design, music, programming, promo materials and websites every waking minute and I've done all this without drugs. I have fairly lucid dreams and a wild imagination for that :D

[iCantwait]

where is the "i have never had any, but will fold under peer pressure and/or if i get laid:D

[edesignuk]

where is the "i have never had any, but will fold under peer pressure and/or if i get laid:DIf you're getting laid, you'll definitely be wanting some stuff too. ;) :D

[SamIchi]

Ditto.

I was at a concert once up in the rafters, some people in front were smoking something (never did find out). The whole ride home I was feeling really odd and silly in my head and didn't like that one bit. So no. But I don't drink either - I like my head all stable and such. And seeing what even "weak" drugs did to my brother... Nah. I'll pass thanks.

....I have fairly lucid dreams and a wild imagination for that :D

Most likely they were smoking nothing less than weed, and you wouldn't even have gotten a contact high if u were standing next to them.

[KingYaba]

I approve of it ;)

I do not approve but I also do not approve the laws making it illegal to use and to possess.

[iObama]

As with everything, the key is moderation.

Don

Are you kidding me? Heroin and Meth are so addictive that you can get hooked on the first time you use.

The key is moderation :rolleyes:...

[Blue Velvet]

Are you kidding me? Heroin and Meth are so addictive that you can get hooked on the first time you use.

Untrue. I've been there.

[iObama]

Untrue. I've been there.

can - auxiliary verb - 1. to be able to; have the ability, power, or skill to

[Blue Velvet]

can - auxiliary verb - 1. to be able to; have the ability, power, or skill to

Nice try at walking back your assertion.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I have a theory about drug use and creativity.

When my parents were teenagers,they smoked pot,and did other things,they listened to music like Jimmy Hendrix,The Stones,The Beatles ect....and those bands also did drugs.When I was a teenager I smoked a little pot,and some other things.I listened to groups like Aerosmith,Queen,Van Halen ect...those guys all did their fair share of drugs.....

Nowadays,I see kids that don't smoke pot,or do drugs,listening to bands like..Miley Sirus,and Avril Lavigne....See where I'm going here.

Is it just that I'm now old,and think music kids listen to these days is worse than it is?.....Or are these musicians actually incredibly lame due to the lack of drug use.

Well I'd say that most people who listen to Miley Sirus and Avril Lavigne, typically, don't smoke pot. However, I'd venture to bet that just as many teens smoke today as those who did back in the day. Bands to smoke to these days are Pink Floyd, The Pixies, Animal Collective, Broken Social Scene, Explosions in the Sky, Iron & Wine and Neutral Milk Hotel.

[iObama]

Nice try at walking back your assertion.

Nice try at understanding the word can.

Sorry. I had to say it, since I didn't know what you meant and had to get back at you. ;)

[iBlue]

Are you kidding me? Heroin and Meth are so addictive that you can get hooked on the first time you use.

The key is moderation :rolleyes:...

Bullshyte. No picking apart of the word "can" makes it so either. You can have an addictive personality and be drawn to drugs and crave them again but you CANNOT get yourself physically "addicted" to ANYTHING from one use. Period.

[Dmac77]

Are you kidding me? Heroin and Meth are so addictive that you can get hooked on the first time you use.

The key is moderation :rolleyes:...

If you read my earlier posts, you'll notice that I specifically said that heroin, cocaine, and meth should be illegal.

People need to properly educated before they take drugs that is for certain. But I really don't understand why some of them (Marijuana, LSD, Mushrooms, Ecstasy, Khat) aren't legal. A lot of doctors will say that those are safer then alcohol and tobacco. Some dugs like cocaine, heroin, and Meth should be illegal because they can harm your body really badly, and they are all highly addictive.

As with everything, the key is moderation.

Don

See?

Don

[iObama]

Bullshyte. No picking apart of the word "can" makes it so either. You can have an addictive personality and be drawn to drugs and crave them again but you CANNOT get yourself physically "addicted" to ANYTHING from one use. Period.

Backspace on the period. Cause you're wrong.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Backspace on the period. Cause you're wrong.

There is literally no way that your body can build up a physical dependency on coke, meth, or heroin after just one use. Sure you might get "hooked" but that's all a mental game.

What was even the point of your post? Dmac said that they should be illegal...

[bobfitz14]

there's few things i haven't tried.

[iBlue]

Backspace on the period. Cause you're wrong.

Put down the propaganda kool-aid.

[iObama]

Put down the propaganda kool-aid.

Propaganda kool-aid?

If you mean the two people I know that it's happened to, then it's a little hard to do.

Get over yourself.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Propaganda kool-aid?

If you mean the two people I know that it's happened to, then it's a little hard to do.

Get over yourself.

really? They were physically dependent on the substance after only one use?

[iObama]

really? They were physically dependent on the substance after only one use?

Yeah. And no, not mentally dependent. They were physically dependent on it.

That stuff's potent.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Yeah. And no, not mentally dependent. They were physically dependent on it.

That stuff's potent.

I'm sorry, I call shenanigans!

[zachplaysguitar]

I'm sorry, I call shenanigans!

I agree.

Lets see some references to back up this claim.

[johnmartin78]

So funny to see how brainwashed Americans are about drug use.From your D.A.R.E. programs in elementary school and the media your whole lives telling you how bad drugs are.I'm not saying drug use is good,but you can't get physically addicted to anything in the world after doing it once....Well other than masturbation maybe.

[Dont Hurt Me]

The U.S is as screwed up on marijuana use as it is on sex, Politics of lies. Example people thrown in jail for years for weed, or the outrage over Janet Jackson's nipple. They the politicians need us to fear something for their own power and control.

Woman should be able to show the breasts at the beech and burn a doobie at the same time:)

[iBlue]

Yeah. And no, not mentally dependent. They were physically dependent on it.

That stuff's potent.

Potent or not, that isn't how it works. Either that or these two people are full of crap. You cannot become physically dependent on anything after merely one use. Seriously. End of story. You can feel like crap when you "come down" and if you're a moron you could mistake that for some sort of physical dependence, but it's not in any true sense of the term. If you are prone to addictions and or someone who is searching for an "escape", you can get psychosomatic responses and cravings which may trick you into wanting more but it's just not the same thing as physical dependency.

Anyway, this is a thread about marijuana.

[johnmartin78]

In an ideal world,people wouldn't do drugs,but the case is they do.Politicians need to wake up and realize that making them illegal just gives criminals an avenue of revenue.As far as marijuana goes,there's a lot of tax revenue the government is losing by not legalizing it.In these days the government needs all the revenue it can get.

[Mord]

Potent or not, that isn't how it works. Either that or these two people are full of crap. You cannot become physically dependent on anything after merely one use. Seriously. End of story. You can feel like crap when you "come down" and if you're a moron you could mistake that for some sort of physical dependence, but it's not in any true sense of the term. If you are prone to addictions and or someone who is searching for an "escape", you can get psychosomatic responses and cravings which may trick you into wanting more but it's just not the same thing as physical dependency.

Anyway, this is a thread about marijuana.

I don't think you even can be physically dependent on amphetamines, you'll feel like utter crap during withdrawal but it's not dangerous to your health to stop. Physical dependence with things like booze and opiates is dangerous as you can do yourself serious harm by going cold turkey, you have to ease the drugs out of your system.

If you define physical addiction as chemically induced craving then I'd pose that this is possible after one administration of amphetamines, smack I have no idea about but from my limited experience with dexamphetamine it definitely can induce an irrational strong desire for more upon the first dose.

[skunk]

Propaganda kool-aid?Yes, you have clearly become physically dependent on it.

[rasmasyean]

In an ideal world,people wouldn't do drugs,but the case is they do.Politicians need to wake up and realize that making them illegal just gives criminals an avenue of revenue.As far as marijuana goes,there's a lot of tax revenue the government is losing by not legalizing it.In these days the government needs all the revenue it can get.

Yeah, they'll get much more revenue if there are crack houses on every corner of the world.:rolleyes:

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Yeah, they'll get much more revenue if there are crack houses on every corner of the world.:rolleyes:

That would saturate the market and they would all go bankrupt.

[ipodtouchy333]

I've never smoked anything before.....but I do have a thing for alcohol, lol.

[johnmartin78]

Yeah, they'll get much more revenue if there are crack houses on every corner of the world.:rolleyes:

If it were legal there wouldn't be dirty crack houses on every corner.Like prostitution for example.In countries,states,counties where it's illegal,those places are where you see dirty nasty aids ridden hookers walking the streets.In places where its legal,example Amsterdam,even Nevada.You don't have that problem.

[iObama]

.
Anyway, this is a thread about marijuana.

Actually, it's a thread about marijauna. Check the thread title. :D

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Actually, it's a thread about marijauna. Check the thread title. :D

I don't get it... they're both spelled correctly.

However, originally the OP had spelled it wrong, it has since been corrected.

[iObama]

I don't get it... they're both spelled correctly.


No they're not. I (as a pun on what the OP did in his thread title) switched the a and the u.

[petermcphee]

I used to be into intoxicants in a big way. As of today, I have been clean/sober for 9+ years. No more pot for me. I have friends that still smoke, and I do not proselytize. I find it unbecoming. (The proselytizing.):D

[rasmasyean]

If it were legal there wouldn't be dirty crack houses on every corner.Like prostitution for example.In countries,states,counties where it's illegal,those places are where you see dirty nasty aids ridden hookers walking the streets.In places where its legal,example Amsterdam,even Nevada.You don't have that problem.

How does "sex" and "mind altering drugs" fit in the same category? rofl

[johnmartin78]

How does "sex" and "mind altering drugs" fit in the same category? rofl

Just an example of when something like "mind altering drugs",or "sex"(not sure what the need for you to put those in quotations was)is made illegal it creates a much larger problem.

Combined with the inability to draw the parallel,the need to go around putting random words in quotations,and rolling on the floor and laughing at posts.Maybe your smokin dope.

[rasmasyean]

Just an example of when something like "mind altering drugs",or "sex"(not sure what the need for you to put those in quotations was)is made illegal it creates a much larger problem.

Combined with the inability to draw the parallel,the need to go around putting random words in quotations,and rolling on the floor and laughing at posts.Maybe your smokin dope.

The point...is to clearly isolate the two phrases and compare the two concepts. I presume you would understand that structure in language but are just reaching further to try to defend you weak point. Because there is clearly a difference between those two activities besides the legality of particular usage of them. Why don't you just say..."Let's make murder legal. This way blah blah blah."

[iBlue]

How does "sex" and "mind altering drugs" fit in the same category? roflSometimes the two go rather nicely together, but that's not what we're talking about here. ;) :D

The decriminalization of prostitution and marijuana in Holland, for instance, has shown that what some cultures consider very dodgy indeed works out just fine in practice. Taking it out of the hands of criminals and regulating it a bit has shown that these taboo things can be decriminalized and still handled responsibly. I don't know about the prostitution rates but Marijuana use in Holland among the young is lower than it is in most of Europe and the USA. The forbidden fruit theory works.

Personally I think the Dutch have it together.

[johnmartin78]

The point...is to clearly isolate the two phrases and compare the two concepts. I presume you would understand that structure in language but are just reaching further to try to defend you weak point. Because there is clearly a difference between those two activities besides the legality of particular usage of them. Why don't you just say..."Let's make murder legal. This way blah blah blah."

Because murder affects someone other than the person doing it.Speaking of weak points.Murder is comprised of normally one willing party,and one unwilling party.Drug use is comprised of willing parties all around.

If I want to smoke pot,I can smoke pot alone and it would bother no one else.If I wanted to murder someone,the person I'm murdering most likely won't want me to do it to them.Equating murder with drug use is asinine.

That being said,drugs and murder have a connection,because drugs are illegal,people murder for them.

[rasmasyean]

Because murder affects someone other than the person doing it.Speaking of weak points.Murder is comprised of normally one willing party,and one unwilling party.Drug use is comprised of willing parties all around.

If I want to smoke pot,I can smoke pot alone and it would bother no one else.If I wanted to murder someone,the person I'm murdering most likely won't want me to do it to them.Equating murder with drug use is asinine.

That being said,drugs and murder have a connection,because drugs are illegal,people murder for them.

You would be pretty naive to think that drugs don't affect "non-users" around them. You can ask any users' family and friends who have dealt with addicts and such. And yes...people murder for them when they need another hit and don't have money to buy it. It's not just gangs killing gangs like you see in the movies. Even many drugs that may only be mildly addicting at most has potential for permanent damage, especially to the nervous system. It's gotta be someone's job to protect people from themselves when they don't know any better or in down states.

Since you may not know this...here's a lesson in health education...

Drugs can cause other long-term changes in the anatomy and physiology of the brain's neurons. Alcohol, methamphetamine, and MDMA (Ecstasy) can kill neurons.3 (http://forums.macrumors.com/references.htm#L43) Unlike other types of cells in the body, neurons in many parts of the brain have little or no capability to regenerate. (Recent studies have shown that the adult human brain can generate new neurons in the hippocampus, a part of the brain important for learning and memory.5 (http://forums.macrumors.com/references.htm#L45) Other parts of the brain do not show this ability.) Alcohol kills neurons in the part of the brain that helps create new memories. If those neurons die, the capability for learning decreases. Methamphetamine kills dopamine-containing neurons in animals and possibly in humans as well.6 (http://forums.macrumors.com/references.htm#L46) MDMA kills neurons that produce another neurotransmitter called serotonin.7 (http://forums.macrumors.com/references.htm#L47) In addition to neurotoxic effects, drugs can significantly alter the activity of the brain. PET scans of cocaine addicts show that the metabolism of glucose, the primary fuel for cells, is drastically reduced in the brain, and that this decrease in metabolism can last for many months following cessation of drug abuse.8 (http://forums.macrumors.com/references.htm#L48)
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih2/addiction/guide/lesson4-1.htm

[Mord]

Anti-oxidants++

They massively reduce neurotoxicity. I like to take a gram of vitamin C and a couple of multi-vits before/after I indulge in any intoxicant that has the potential to kill neurons.

[johnmartin78]

You're completely brainwashed.Drug prohibition creates more deaths than it prevents.These government organizations have been brainwashing you since the first D.A.R.E. class you took in the first grade.

Do these government funded organizations mention how the Mafia came into power in America?By alcohol prohibition.Alcohol being illegal in America gave criminals countless opportunities to make money,and gain power.Just like the drug prohibition of today.

Do these government funded programs tell you anything about heroin clinics in Europe?They give out laboratory created drugs to addicts,drugs that are 1000 times cleaner,and safer than anything your American drug addicts get from some dirty drug dealers basement.

If you actually read my first post you would see I said that in an ideal world people wouldn't do drugs.But they do.

But whatever,keep putting guys in jail for having a joint.Keep using up tax dollars to imprison people for years because a cop stopped them for speeding and found a pot seed on their floorboard.You don't need the extra revenue for anything like health care,or schools.

[skunk]

<reefer madness-type propaganda>None of the above has the slightest relevance to marihuana, does it?

[Phat_Pat]

marijuana users are not criminals. it sucks to see people who aren't harming anyone be punished.

[Trajectory]

Far more people die from alcohol-related incidents than pot. Tobacco has probably killed at least a million people over the years. Yet pot, a simple plant, is relatively harmless yet illegal.

The billions of taxpayer money the government spends on throwing pot smokers in jail could be put to much better use. Like perhaps education or national healthcare. And if the production, sale and use of pot were made legal, the U.S. would become so wealthy from all new tax revenue marijuana would generate, it could retire all debts and lower income taxes. But we Americans don't want that, we'd rather spend billions on jailing those "druggies" for smoking a harmless plant that was made illegal only in the 1950s.

The only reason the "Drug War" continues is because it's very profitable for jails, security companies and law enforcement. It's why 1 in 10 Americans are in jail, the highest rate of incarceration of all Democratic nations combined. The Drug War was primarily meant to target the African-American community, and it has been very successful: most prisoners are black.

All this over a plant that God put on the Earth for us to enjoy and use.

[johnmartin78]

The only reason the "Drug War" continues is because it's very profitable for jails, security companies and law enforcement. It's why 1 in 10 Americans are in jail, the highest rate of incarceration of all Democratic nations combined. The Drug War was primarily meant to target the African-American community, and it has been very successful: most prisoners are black.


Great point,lets not forget that a large portion of American prisons are private owned facilities.That get paid per inmate.

[likemyorbs]

Great point,lets not forget that a large portion of American prisons are private owned facilities.That get paid per inmate.

really? i actually never knew that, online proof?

[johnmartin78]

really? i actually never knew that, online proof?

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=867

[AP_piano295]

Is awsome :)

But seriously I smoke pretty infrequently but I enjoy it.

[AP_piano295]

I agree with this. After a night of drinking I almost always wake up with my head throbbing and feel sick all day. With pot the worst that happens I feel groggy and perhaps a little forgetful. It seems odd to me when people prefer alcohol, excluding the legality issue.

I feel great the morning after smoking, probably because the stuff makes me sleep like a baby ahhhh.

[chrmjenkins]

Was a user in middle school and the beginning of high school, but I've since never touched it. I don't take any drugs (other than caffeine). My general opinion is that if a substance is meant to make me have fun, shouldn't I examine my leisure activities and idea of fun?

Not to say it can't have medical benefits and the like. I would not be against decriminalizing it as long as it could be regulated and taxed. Other substances, however, I am more dubious on.

[WinkWink726]

lol, "Reefer Madness" was awesome!!! LOL :D

Personally... Im ambivolent about the entire topic!
On one hand, I partly envy those who can (and are willing) to partake.
and on the other, I sort of enjoy NOT partaking!
it makes no sense!

In school, me and my close little clique of friends used to joke and share the same ideology as "Cher" from "Clueless"

"its one thing to spark up a doobie and get laced at a party, but it is QUITE another to be fried all day!"
That's how we rolled ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdhcNegZgU&feature=related

[edesignuk]

The upgrade of Cannabis to Class B takes place today in the UK.

Cannabis law change 'illogical'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7850342.stm)

[és:]

The upgrade of Cannabis to Class B takes place today in the UK.

Cannabis law change 'illogical'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7850342.stm)

'illogical' is right.

[davidjearly]

The upgrade of Cannabis to Class B takes place today in the UK.

Cannabis law change 'illogical'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7850342.stm)

Outstanding. Now if only they would actually wisen up and dish out the same punishment for possession that go along with all other Class B drugs.

[edesignuk]

Outstanding. Now if only they would actually wisen up and dish out the same punishment for possession that go along with all other Class B drugs.Yeah, the world would be a much better and safer place :rolleyes:

[iBlue]

Outstanding. Now if only they would actually wisen up and dish out the same punishment for possession that go along with all other Class B drugs.

Your excitement over our government going against their scientific advisors shows how little you actually know about marijuana. But I guess so long as it meets your personal "logical" conclusions, who cares how ridiculous it is, right?

[Neil321]

Outstanding. Now if only they would actually wisen up and dish out the same punishment for possession that go along with all other Class B drugs.

Do you have any idea about the effects of ganja,or what your talking about?

[és:]

Here (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUd3NHRM9o) is what Noam Chomsky has to say about Marijuana.

[MacSamurai]

Here (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ioUd3NHRM9o) is what Noam Chomsky has to say about Marijuana.

Chomsky is and always has been the man.

[és:]

Chomsky is and always has been the man.

Yep. If Chomsky says it, it's probably 100% right.

[iJohnHenry]

The people against pot should have been an an ALS-Lou Gehrig's disease, (MND in England), support group that I was at last night.

A father, 75, forced to risk jail, to acquire illegal pot for his son, so he can keep his food down. The same can be said for other sufferers too, including those undergoing chemo treatment for cancer.

EDIT: And now, some humour. http://video.aol.com/video-detail/how-to-roll-a-joint/4226391110

[kainjow]

Time For Marijuana Legalization? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/25/opinion/courtwatch/main4828659.shtml)

Yes it is.

[Trajectory]

Outstanding. Now if only they would actually wisen up and dish out the same punishment for possession that go along with all other Class B drugs.

Yes, let's lock up even more people in prison for smoking a natural, harmless plant.

This is what happens when we let stupid people make the decisions for all of us.

[Acorn]

I now know 5 people in thier 50s that smoke for recreational use. its funny I never knew to many older people (40s-50s) who smoked when i was growing up but thats because that isnt your crowd. Now that I am much older now and have no crowd basically haha I see many many older people doing it too.

I never really got in to pot and cant really now do to screwed up brain chemistry. im not allowed anything that alters the mind including alcohol. apparently when your mind is really screwed up your not suppose to alter it haha. oh well sucks for me.

[kastenbrust]

In the immortal words of Shameless:

Make poverty history - cheaper drugs now :p

As for making marijuana legal, i believe it should be because our country and democracy are based on Christian principles and it says that theres nothing wrong with Cannabis in the Bible

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
Genesis 1:29

[maestro55]

I am not against smoking pot, in fact I have smoked pot a couple of times (though I don't think I ever actually got high, which is really strange). If offered and I was going to drive that evening I would probably smoke it again but I haven't smoked put in nearly a year.

It is just like any other drug, I mean I drink, too. I have no desire to get messed up on harder drugs and really the only advantage to pot is is chills you out (or I have heard that after you smoke pot a few times it starts getting you high because like I said I smoked it twice and didn't get high).

Nothing morally wrong with it and it should be legal.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Time For Marijuana Legalization? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/25/opinion/courtwatch/main4828659.shtml)

Yes it is.It was time 50 years ago, the laws around it are lies,spin and politics of look at me fight the drug war. Tax the crap out of it and free up jail space for people doing real crime. Safer then alcohol by a mile and a half.

[KingYaba]

I was thinking about this today. The initial supply of marijuana may come from some drug cartel upon legalization but in the long-term, however, the narcotic will be supplied by Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds. So, legalization might help to stop these guys (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/us/02pot.html?partner=rss).

Raise your hand if your alcohol comes from moonshiners and rum runners.

It's just a thought...

[Dont Hurt Me]

I was thinking about this today. The initial supply of marijuana may come from some drug cartel upon legalization but in the long-term, however, the narcotic will be supplied by Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds. So, legalization might help to stop these guys (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/us/02pot.html?partner=rss).

Raise your hand if your alcohol comes from moonshiners and rum runners.

It's just a thought...I agree , you want to fight the cartel? legalize. Now you just put them out of business as far as weed goes. Keeping it illegal empowers the drug dealers, the police state and the politician.

[Trajectory]

"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica."

Abraham Lincoln

Today, one of our greatest presidents would have been thrown in jail for enjoying that pipe of "sweet hemp." How pathetic has America become?

[SactoGuy18]

If we do legalize marijuana, make sure we regulate it like alcoholic beverages and tobacco (it will probably be under the purview of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms).

That way, we'll have real standards for things like THC levels per gram of cannabis leaves (very necessary for serious medicinal use) and standards for keeping unwanted additives and impurities out (e.g., the legal stuff will actually be "clean").

Making it legal would put a very serious hurt on the Mexican drug gangs, since Mexican drug gangs rely on nearly 2/3 of their revenue on selling marijuana. I mean, would you buy cannabis from the Mexican gangs if you have no assurances on quality and safety? And without that money from marijuana sales, could they afford to import cocaine and opium derivatives into Mexico before redistributing it into the USA?

[TuffLuffJimmy]

If we do legalize marijuana, make sure we regulate it like alcoholic beverages and tobacco (it will probably be under the purview of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms).

That way, we'll have real standards for things like THC levels per gram of cannabis leaves (very necessary for serious medicinal use) and standards for keeping unwanted additives and impurities out (e.g., the legal stuff will actually be "clean").

Making it legal would put a very serious hurt on the Mexican drug gangs, since Mexican drug gangs rely on nearly 2/3 of their revenue on selling marijuana. I mean, would you buy cannabis from the Mexican gangs if you have no assurances on quality and safety? And without that money from marijuana sales, could they afford to import cocaine and opium derivatives into Mexico before redistributing it into the USA?

I agree with you partly, except the regulation bit. If I could get my hands on a few seeds I could grow as much dank as I want. There doesn't need to be any standard of THC level since THC isn't dangerous.

[kastenbrust]

I agree with you partly, except the regulation bit. If I could get my hands on a few seeds I could grow as much dank as I want. There doesn't need to be any standard of THC level since THC isn't dangerous.

Wow, the first person outside a chem lab that knows what theyre talking about on the topic of weed. Your right, the levels of THC arnt important, its the levels of the antipsychotic drug Cannabidol thats important. Yes thats right antipsychotic. Marijuana actually contains a chemical that stops paranoia and psychosis too, but its in balance with the THC and Cannabidols, and in recent years the Canaboids have been increased to give weed a stronger effect, which reduced the Cannabidol or antipsychotic drug levels which is the issue.

There are companies (such as Pfizer)actually trying to get the antipsychotic canabidols out of weed to treat mental disorders.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070601/msgs/761171.html

[iBlue]

I was thinking about this today. The initial supply of marijuana may come from some drug cartel upon legalization but in the long-term, however, the narcotic will be supplied by Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds. So, legalization might help to stop these guys (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/us/02pot.html?partner=rss).

Raise your hand if your alcohol comes from moonshiners and rum runners.

It's just a thought...
It's not a narcotic. Just sayin'.

Wow, the first person outside a chem lab that knows what theyre talking about on the topic of weed. Your right, the levels of THC arnt important, its the levels of the antipsychotic drug Cannabidol thats important. Yes thats right antipsychotic. Marijuana actually contains a chemical that stops paranoia and psychosis too, but its in balance with the THC and Cannabidols, and in recent years the Canaboids have been increased to give weed a stronger effect, which reduced the Cannabidol or antipsychotic drug levels which is the issue.

There are companies (such as Pfizer)actually trying to get the antipsychotic canabidols out of weed to treat mental disorders.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070601/msgs/761171.html
That isn't strictly true either. THC does matter a great deal, it and other properties of the plant not being toxic or able to kill you doesn't mean that higher THC content doesn't affect you. THC is broken down into several other compounds, such as cannabinoids (a secondary metabolite found in the plant) which have a pharmacological affect on the brain. We have specific receptors in our brain for it, which is why it affects us. Alleluia for that too! It's a lovely pairing.
Anyway, I don't disagree on principle, just that THC does indeed matter.

[.Andy]

Wow, the first person outside a chem lab that knows what theyre talking about on the topic of weed. Your right, the levels of THC arnt important, its the levels of the antipsychotic drug Cannabidol thats important. Yes thats right antipsychotic. Marijuana actually contains a chemical that stops paranoia and psychosis too, but its in balance with the THC and Cannabidols, and in recent years the Canaboids have been increased to give weed a stronger effect, which reduced the Cannabidol or antipsychotic drug levels which is the issue.

There are companies (such as Pfizer)actually trying to get the antipsychotic canabidols out of weed to treat mental disorders.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20070601/msgs/761171.html
Have you got a more reputable source on the information you've posted than an unreferenced forum post on dr-bob.org/babble?

[arkitect]

"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica."

Abraham Lincoln

Well I'll tell you one thing: those were some nifty tongue 'n lip moves ol' Abe had there… doing both at the same time?

:p

[SactoGuy18]

I agree with you partly, except the regulation bit. If I could get my hands on a few seeds I could grow as much dank as I want. There doesn't need to be any standard of THC level since THC isn't dangerous.

It should be noted that in the case of both tobacco and alcohol the BATF does specify regulations like the levels of tar and nicotine in the cigarette and some regulations on alcohol content (I do know that it's mostly states that regulate the percentage of alcohol, which is why most states limit the "proof" to 151 for hard liquor; Everclear in 191 proof is only legal in a few states).

The reason why I mentioned THC levels per gram is that you do need that regulation if wider medicinal use is common. That way, doctors using things like vaporizers can consistently get the right level of THC needed for each patient.

[Trajectory]

We have specific receptors in our brain for it, which is why it affects us. Alleluia for that too! It's a lovely pairing.

I think a lot of people are completely unaware that our brains are embedded with thousands of THC receptors. I wonder how that happened! Perhaps we evolved this way due to the fact that our evolutionary ancestors were pot-heads?? Whatever the case, hemp and humans were meant for each other.

[.Andy]

I think a lot of people are completely unaware that our brains are embedded with thousands of THC receptors.
There's many more than thousands. But they're not THC receptors per se. They're receptors for other related molecules that are endogenous to the brain that just so happen to also bind THC.

I wonder how that happened! Perhaps we evolved this way due to the fact that our evolutionary ancestors were pot-heads??
It most certainly wasn't because we had pothead ancestors - we can cross evolution off the list in this regard. This is akin to saying that because we have receptors that bind opiates that humans were meant to consume opiates. Or because organophosphates bind enzymes in our bodies we were meant to consume organophosphate pesticides.

There are literally millions of examples where exogenous compounds can interact with endogenous biological pathways, in many cases eliciting negative responses. This is a function of how organic molecules can mimic each other and that receptors are rarely specific to the extent of binding a single ligand. This is more to do with the evolution across species and the fact that we utilise a similar/related biological toolkit for divergent functions.

Whatever the case, hemp and humans were meant for each other.
One could perhaps make a stronger case that hemp was "made" for humans by reference to such things as its usefulness as a textile.

[skunk]

It most certainly wasn't because we had pothead ancestorsWhich is not to say we didn't, of course...

[.Andy]

Which is not to say we didn't, of course...
True. I'm sure there's a long ancestry of individuals that used all sorts of plants for all sorts of reasons. Many of which we are probably completely unaware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9N3BWLH-Bs

[woolyback]

I kicked the arse out of it at Uni, then that went down to annual meet ups and now I can't honestly remember the last time I had a smoke

Nothing against it, but I know I couldn't do it now and still function - especially with kids :eek:

[Lord Blackadder]

I am not a fan; haven't tried it, don't like what it did to a bunch of my friends eons ago when I was in high school...

...but I think it should be legalized and regulated like tobacco and alcohol. That would wipe away a huge chunk of the illicit drug market and all the horrors and crime associated with it. Not to mention that sales of FunYuns would soar.

[obeygiant]

I am not a fan; haven't tried it, don't like what it did to a bunch of my friends eons ago when I was in high school...


You should try it at least once. Come on!


lol@peer pressure

LEGALIZE!

[SactoGuy18]

You should try it at least once. Come on!


lol@peer pressure

LEGALIZE!

Actually, I did try it once by smoking a joint, but that was the last time I did it. The combination of feeling woozy for several hours and a hacking cough was something I didn't want to repeat anytime soon. :rolleyes:

[Desertrat]

Sacto, the stuff from Bolinas was really smooth. No hack. :) A tad potent, though. Amazing what PhD Botanists can accomplish.

Don't ask me how I know. :D:D:D

There was a C-Span program in the mid-1990s, with a discussion of drugs and drug laws. The Grand Dragon of the DEA declared that there was no evidence showing that medical marijuana had any utility. Nobody asked him why artificial THC alleviated the nausea of chemo. But, back then, 12 hours of relief cost about $10. A couple of tokes off a joint did just as good, and was a helluva lot cheaper. When folks lacked either the money or the joint? Like a cancer-ridden friend of mine commented, "You haven't lived until you've been in a ward with a bunch of guys puking all at once."

'Rat

[Trajectory]

Interesting article in the NY Times, here’s an excerpt from the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/us/01sin.html

“Betty Yee, chairwoman of the California Board of Equalization, the state’s tax collector, said that legal marijuana could raise nearly $1 billion per year via a $50-per-ounce fee charged to retailers. An additional $400 million could be raised via sales tax from marijuana sold to buyers.

The law would also establish a “smoking age” — 21 — effectively putting marijuana in a similar regulatory class as alcohol or tobacco. Marijuana advocates argue that legalization could also decrease pressure on the state’s overburdened prison system and members of law enforcement.

All of which, Ms. Yee said, at least makes the proposal worth talking about in a state with chronic budget problems and a law already on the books allowing the medical use of the drug.”

[iJohnHenry]

Taxes are indeed the "carrot" to getting weed legalised. ;)

[Desertrat]

Humph. A $50/ounce tax on something that in the wild is worth about $20 per ton as cattle fodder. Figures. "Raw greed and indifference to human suffering is what made this country great."

[ipodtoucher]

Never done it, but the threat of ball cancer pushed me away and when my roommate smoke-boxes it in the bathroom it just pisses me off. I don't mind it, in fact I think that that medical marijuana should be legal, just not as easy to get a hold of.

[iJohnHenry]

Humph. A $50/ounce tax on something that in the wild is worth about $20 per ton as cattle fodder. Figures. "Raw greed and indifference to human suffering is what made this country great."

They have to figure a way to harness your labour to benefit the State.

Policing home-grow ops will not get any better, if that's the type of price structure they attempt to implement. The drug dealers would just laugh.

[SLC Flyfishing]

.........The Grand Dragon of the DEA declared that there was no evidence showing that medical marijuana had any utility. Nobody asked him why artificial THC alleviated the nausea of chemo........

'Rat

I'm taking a Pharmacology/Toxicology course right now as part of my Medical School Preparations. My professor has just returned from a 3 year stint as the director of NIDA (National Institute of Drug Abuse).

He commented in class the other day that the problem with the DEA is that they are a law enforcement agency first. When he was called to testify before them, they didn't really want to be bothered with the physiology and pharmacology of marijuana. His impression was that they wanted mainly to know if there was something unique about marijuana that is useful clinically. Sort of like they were looking for an excuse to keep it illegal.

But my professor also feels like it doesn't have any significant unique clinical value, and that because it can impair judgement and coordination it had very serious dangers if allowed to be legally consumed (can you imagine driving the freeway with a bunch of stoned drivers?) The main issue is that as far as I'm aware, there is no reliable test to know if a person is presently high on marijuana. The drug is fat soluble, meaning that the body expels it very slowly, and this makes it difficult to decide whether or not a person is under the influence or merely still has traces in his/her system.

SLC

[iJohnHenry]

But my professor also feels like it doesn't have any significant unique clinical value, and that because it can impair judgement and coordination it had very serious dangers if allowed to be legally consumed (can you imagine driving the freeway with a bunch of stoned drivers?)

And this differs from alcohol in what respect??

[rdowns]

I'm taking a Pharmacology/Toxicology course right now as part of my Medical School Preparations. My professor has just returned from a 3 year stint as the director of NIDA (National Institute of Drug Abuse).

He commented in class the other day that the problem with the DEA is that they are a law enforcement agency first. When he was called to testify before them, they didn't really want to be bothered with the physiology and pharmacology of marijuana. His impression was that they wanted mainly to know if there was something unique about marijuana that is useful clinically. Sort of like they were looking for an excuse to keep it illegal.

But my professor also feels like it doesn't have any significant unique clinical value, and that because it can impair judgement and coordination it had very serious dangers if allowed to be legally consumed (can you imagine driving the freeway with a bunch of stoned drivers?) The main issue is that as far as I'm aware, there is no reliable test to know if a person is presently high on marijuana. The drug is fat soluble, meaning that the body expels it very slowly, and this makes it difficult to decide whether or not a person is under the influence or merely still has traces in his/her system.

SLC

Of course the DEA wants to keep it illegal. They're more concerned with maintaining and growing their budget than winning the so-called 'war on drugs'. Talk about a failure.

As for stoned drivers, that is a straw man. With the way doctors give away prescriptions today, probably 30-40% of our drivers are 'stoned' on some kind of pill or another.

[SLC Flyfishing]

As for stoned drivers, that is a straw man. With the way doctors give away prescriptions today, probably 30-40% of our drivers are 'stoned' on some kind of pill or another.

It's no straw man, and believe me I know that there are other substances that can impair drivers that are currently prescribed (opiate pain killers spring immediately to mind). But there are punishments set forth for those found to be driving while under the influence of such drugs, and proving that they were intoxicated at the time of the infraction is very easy to do. Like I said before, with Marijuana, it's not so simple.

Most drugs out there are water soluble, meaning that if they show up in a urine sample, you've got an almost 100% certainty that they have been recently taken into the system. Fat soluble molecules (marijuana is a fat soluble drug) pass through the system much more slowly, the intoxicating effect of marijuana can be long gone while the drug remains in the system. It's very difficult (essentially impossible) to determine if a person is under the influence at the time, or if the drug's effect has worn off.

Do you understand now?

SLC

[FF_productions]

And this differs from alcohol in what respect??

Yeah its the same thing...it's a society kind of thing. We've been on the tobacco bandwagon since before this country existed, alcohol has a wonderful history. Marijuana? That's laughed at, but isn't that where some of our drug problems are stemming from?

Suddenly you legalize it, you're not buying from dealers, you're buying from the government, you post an age limit of 21+ and suddenly that cuts down the number of people buying weed (shame on those people that are selling it to minors but eh it's still happening now).

My question is, what are the negative consequences of legalizing and taxing marijuana in this country?

First thing you can punch off the list is driving under the influence, that's already an issue with alcohol so the blame can't be placed solely on the pot as already mentioned.

I don't smoke pot, just did it in high school for ***** and giggles, didn't enjoy it.

[zioxide]

21 is stupid. Make it 18. If you can die for our country, you should be able to drink or smoke

[FF_productions]

21 is stupid. Make it 18. If you can die for our country, you should be able to drink or smoke

Good point. That's a thread by itself.

[SteveMobs]

Just did it in high school for ***** and giggles, didn't enjoy it.

Haha, right. You can be honest here.

[FF_productions]

didn't enjoy it....

....enough to keep doing it...:D

[TuffLuffJimmy]

It's no straw man, and believe me I know that there are other substances that can impair drivers that are currently prescribed (opiate pain killers spring immediately to mind). But there are punishments set forth for those found to be driving while under the influence of such drugs, and proving that they were intoxicated at the time of the infraction is very easy to do. Like I said before, with Marijuana, it's not so simple.

Most drugs out there are water soluble, meaning that if they show up in a urine sample, you've got an almost 100% certainty that they have been recently taken into the system. Fat soluble molecules (marijuana is a fat soluble drug) pass through the system much more slowly, the intoxicating effect of marijuana can be long gone while the drug remains in the system. It's very difficult (essentially impossible) to determine if a person is under the influence at the time, or if the drug's effect has worn off.

Do you understand now?

SLC

Not really there are sobriety tests you can do that test specifically for marijuana. For example your eyes don't track left to right/right to left correctly when you're stoned.

[Mord]

Haha, right. You can be honest here.

Some people just don't enjoy the effects. I certainly don't and it's not like I don't enjoy other drugs.

[kastenbrust]

Legalize Marijuana, Tax It, Use said proceeds to save banking system and fund bailout, then make it illegal again.

Tough times call for desperate measures... :p

[EvanLugh]

Legalize Marijuana, Tax It, Use said proceeds to save banking system and fund bailout, then make it illegal again.

Tough times call for desperate measures... :p

I'll put my dibs in for one tonne right now.

[SLC Flyfishing]

Not really there are sobriety tests you can do that test specifically for marijuana. For example your eyes don't track left to right/right to left correctly when you're stoned.

Yeah, but a sobriety test alone won't be sufficient enough for a driving under the influence conviction.

It takes urinalysis or blood specimen analysis

SLC

[Desertrat]

SLC Flyfishing, as I said in my post above, I'll take my buddy's word for the beneficial effects with respect to chemotherapy.

I ran across an article some years back which compared the numbers for various causes of death from doing stupid. Somewhere around 300,000 to 400,000 deaths per year from the effects of alcohol, and about the same for tobacco. All illegal drugs? 30,000.

I still say that the psychology of the whole deal is that if you remove the "lure of the illicit" and the "thrill of rebellion" from drugs, the overall amount of usage would decline. I imagine there would be an initial spike in use, but I don't believe it would last. And we'd have a ton of money for education programs and medical help. Fewer muggings and medical bills. Many fewer shootings, since there would be no point in turf wars over who sells where. Lower insurance premiums for burglary since there would be less need for the cash to buy drugs.

And less corruption within our legal system, as well as less of an assault on the Bill of Rights in the name of the War on Some Drugs.

[Surely]

My views:

It should be legal, taxed, and regulated in the same way as alcohol and tobacco. It is hypocritical to not legalize it.
I think it's totally ridiculous that many of the same people who are against legalization consume beer, wine, or hard liquor, and just can't conceive that there is no difference between pot and alcohol.


It's been around 4-5 years since the last time I smoke pot. I just kind of stopped- no real reason. It just kind of faded from the things that I do. I miss it sometimes, it was a fun thing to do. I liked the fact that I could smoke a joint, enjoy it, and not be hung-over the next day- I could sit in class or be productive at work without having to pop Advil and drink a gallon of water. I used it responsibly- only after all of my reading/studying/work was complete, and it was time to chill out. It was a social thing for me- it was very rare for me to smoke a joint by myself (I was a master joint-roller...:D). I never drove while high, just like I would never drive while drunk.

Now I live in LA after having moved here last year, and even if I wanted to smoke again, I wouldn't know who to get it from anyway.

There are medical marijuana clinics here, but I have no real medical reason to go to one. I could make something up, but why would I want some made-up condition (anxiety, insomnia, etc) on my medical records? Besides, I don't think it would be fair for me to abuse those clinics- I wouldn't want to ruin it for the people who actually need it.

If it does become legal (one day it will, when is another matter), I will most definitely be a customer, no matter how old I am when it happens.

Just like alcohol's catch phrase is "Drink Responsibly", marijuana's should be "Smoke Responsibly".

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Just like alcohol's catch phrase is "Drink Responsibly", marijuana's should be "Smoke Responsibly".

Awww I like the way you think. However, big tobacco already has "smoke responsibly" marijuana's would probably be "toke responsibly"

[CalBoy]

Yeah, but a sobriety test alone won't be sufficient enough for a driving under the influence conviction.

It takes urinalysis or blood specimen analysis


Isn't there already a similar rule for alcohol? Why can't the suspect be taken to the station for urinalysis if he is suspected of being too high to operate a vehicle?
SLC Flyfishing, as I said in my post above, I'll take my buddy's word for the beneficial effects with respect to chemotherapy.

I ran across an article some years back which compared the numbers for various causes of death from doing stupid. Somewhere around 300,000 to 400,000 deaths per year from the effects of alcohol, and about the same for tobacco. All illegal drugs? 30,000.

I still say that the psychology of the whole deal is that if you remove the "lure of the illicit" and the "thrill of rebellion" from drugs, the overall amount of usage would decline. I imagine there would be an initial spike in use, but I don't believe it would last. And we'd have a ton of money for education programs and medical help. Fewer muggings and medical bills. Many fewer shootings, since there would be no point in turf wars over who sells where. Lower insurance premiums for burglary since there would be less need for the cash to buy drugs.

And less corruption within our legal system, as well as less of an assault on the Bill of Rights in the name of the War on Some Drugs.

I can't believe it, but I agree entirely. :)

[Surely]

Awww I like the way you think. However, big tobacco already has "smoke responsibly" marijuana's would probably be "toke responsibly"

'Toke responsibly' works well too.

I just can't wrap my mind around smoking cigarettes. I don't get the point of it (well, besides satisfying the acquired nicotine addiction). But, I guess that's another topic for another thread.

[EricNau]

I still say that the psychology of the whole deal is that if you remove the "lure of the illicit" and the "thrill of rebellion" from drugs, the overall amount of usage would decline. I imagine there would be an initial spike in use, but I don't believe it would last.
I'm not so sure. People don't drive over the speed limit because it's illegal; rather, they speed because they want to reach their destination quicker.

Similarly, I don't believe drug users (be it marijuana, coke, meth, heroin, etc.) abuse substances because they're illegal; no, they take drugs because they like the effects.

What laws are broken purely for the thrill of breaking a law? People steal because they want an item at no cost, not because it's illegal. People don't murder because it's illegal. People don't hit-and-run because it's illegal. People don't kidnap because it's illegal.

What crimes do people commit purely because it's illegal?

[Peace]

Calling Marijuana a drug is wrong. It's nothing like coke or meth or heroin.

Here in Oregon it's legal for medical use and the California legislature is considering legalizing it in order to collect taxes.

Sorry. I just get peeved when pot is described in the same vein as drugs.

[Surely]

I'm not so sure. People don't drive over the speed limit because it's illegal; rather, they speed because they want to reach their destination quicker.

Similarly, I don't believe drug users (be it marijuana, coke, meth, heroin, etc.) abuse substances because they're illegal; no, they take drugs because they like the effects.

What laws are broken purely for the thrill of breaking a law? People steal because they want an item at no cost, not because it's illegal. People don't murder because it's illegal. People don't hit-and-run because it's illegal. People don't kidnap because it's illegal.

What crimes do people commit purely because it's illegal?

It's not quite that black and white. Some people most definitely do some of those things simply because they're illegal. For the thrill of it.

[EricNau]

Calling Marijuana a drug is wrong. It's nothing like coke or meth or heroin.

Here in Oregon it's legal for medical use and the California legislature is considering legalizing it in order to collect taxes.

Sorry. I just get peeved when pot is described in the same vein as drugs.
While marijuana is most certainly a drug, I absolutely agree: that comparison would usually be unfair. However, for the purposes of my argument I didn't see a differentiation as significant. People do drugs, any drugs, because they enjoy the effects.

Otherwise alcohol use would be virtually non-existent, no?

[Peace]

I absolutely agree. However, for the purposes of my argument I didn't see a differentiation as significant. People do drugs, any drugs, because they enjoy the effects.

Otherwise alcohol use would be virtually non-existent, no?

I agree. "drugs" have been an integral part of most cultures for thousands of years.

[thebassoonist]

Where's the "Haven't tried it, but not against it... and may use if the opportunity arises" option?

I don't know where the argument of using it as a painkiller comes from. I remember smashing my finger pretty bad. So I tried using it as a painkiller and it just made it much worst. Not only was it still painful but all I could think of after smoking was the throbbing pain

Probably depends on the type of pain. Maybe not for pain due to injuries, but chronic pain?

[iBlue]

Humph. A $50/ounce tax on something that in the wild is worth about $20 per ton as cattle fodder. Figures. "Raw greed and indifference to human suffering is what made this country great."
That is a fantastic price! Not all weed is cultivated so cheaply and probably none of the good stuff is.

It's no straw man, and believe me I know that there are other substances that can impair drivers that are currently prescribed (opiate pain killers spring immediately to mind). But there are punishments set forth for those found to be driving while under the influence of such drugs, and proving that they were intoxicated at the time of the infraction is very easy to do. Like I said before, with Marijuana, it's not so simple.

Most drugs out there are water soluble, meaning that if they show up in a urine sample, you've got an almost 100% certainty that they have been recently taken into the system. Fat soluble molecules (marijuana is a fat soluble drug) pass through the system much more slowly, the intoxicating effect of marijuana can be long gone while the drug remains in the system. It's very difficult (essentially impossible) to determine if a person is under the influence at the time, or if the drug's effect has worn off.

Do you understand now?

SLC
I do understand the concern but not as a reason for keeping it criminalized. I would MUCH prefer to drive among stoned people than drunks anyway. It's like that joke, "The drunk will run through the stop sign, the stoner will sit and wait for it to turn green." Neither should be on the road but I'll always find alcohol to be the more dangerous choice in every way.


Probably depends on the type of pain. Maybe not for pain due to injuries, but chronic pain?
It's definitely better for certain types of pain. For acute ("oh crap, I just hurt myself") types of pain I find it doesn't help much and sometimes can make it seem worse. Very different story for chronic pain.

[barkmonster]

Calling Marijuana a drug is wrong. It's nothing like coke or meth or heroin.

Here in Oregon it's legal for medical use and the California legislature is considering legalizing it in order to collect taxes.

Sorry. I just get peeved when pot is described in the same vein as drugs.

I think given the credit crunch, legalising Hash would be a fantastic way of clawing back millions in taxes. I wouldn't legalise Weed though, the really strong stuff is far too powerful but should still only be a class C, not a class B like all pot now is in the UK.

[SactoGuy18]

Actually, legallizing cannabis has a number of advantages:

1) It guarantees that the cannabis is actually safe and not loaded with potentially lethal additives.

2) It will allow the FDA to create a standardized form of cannabis for medicinal use by defining the level of THC per gram of cannabis.

3) An excise tax will mean a huge financial boon to the state.

4) It will serious affect many criminal gangs, since with legalized marijuana, who's going to buy the stuff from the street?

5) It may finally lift the ban on the cultivation and harvesting of the hemp plant, which is cannabis with very low to zero THC levels. Hemp has many potential industrial uses from clothing to a source of cellulosic processed biofuels.

[iJohnHenry]

Actually, legallizing cannabis has a number of advantages:

1) It guarantees that the cannabis is actually safe and not loaded with potentially lethal additives.

Yep.

2) It will allow the FDA to create a standardized form of cannabis for medicinal use by defining the level of THC per gram of cannabis.

Slippery slope. Canada has produced some real crap medical THC sprays and pills.

3) An excise tax will mean a huge financial boon to the state.

More luxury for the State, less for the Crooks. ;)

4) It will serious affect many criminal gangs, since with legalized marijuana, who's going to buy the stuff from the street?

Only if it is price-competitive. The market will still decide, in the long run.

5) It may finally lift the ban on the cultivation and harvesting of the hemp plant, which is cannabis with very low to zero THC levels. Hemp has many potential industrial uses from clothing to a source of cellulosic processed biofuels.

That shows just to what level of stupidity the State will go, to make sure they get taxes for your "recreational" drug choice.



I'll believe it when it happens. And no, I am not from Missouri.

[Desertrat]

Eric, I was around the Austin music scene from the mid 1960s to the mid-1980s. Mostly a customer, but I did own a couple of folk-music clubs. Hung out at the old Armadillo World Headquarters a fair amount. I never did enough sweet grass to notice, but I certainly was around bunches of the Hippies and the protest crowd. I was in and out of the Hashbury in SF, a few times.

So, my "psychology" comment is based on bits and pieces of conversations I overheard, or attitudes of people I was around. And, some of it is based on one hard fact about young people: They will indeed do things out of rebellion, and trying forbidden fruit is just one of those things.

Heh. Threads like this bring back memories. The first Willie Nelson July 4th picnic. Hippies and rednecks on the same hillside. Budweiser and Mary Jane. Tex Ritter and Jerry Jeff Walker. And if you were sitting on the downwind side, you didn't need to smoke; just breathe. :D

'Rat

[ErikCLDR]

It should be at the very least decriminalized.

Legalization would be good for the reasons people have said before.

I don't know if it would ever happen though because there is no easy way of testing for it. i.e. Breathalyzer with alcohol

[TuffLuffJimmy]

It should be at the very least decriminalized.

Legalization would be good for the reasons people have said before.

I don't know if it would ever happen though because there is no easy way of testing for it. i.e. Breathalyzer with alcohol

alcohol was legal well before the breathalyzer and cars were common place too.

[iJohnHenry]

And if you were sitting on the downwind side, you didn't need to smoke; just breathe. :D

'Rat

Ah yes. I've been to Rocky Horror showings like that. Happy times. :D

[ErikCLDR]

alcohol was legal well before the breathalyzer and cars were common place too.

True but I think DUI is a much bigger deal now than it used to be with more people driving. Politicians would obviously want to see a way to test how high people are easily.

[Gelfin]

Politicians would obviously want to see a way to test how high people are easily.

"Sir, I need to run your plate and license. This will take a few minutes, so please step out of the car and hold my bag of Cheetos for me."

[joepunk]

Here in Washington State there is a bill (currently in the rules committee) which would reduce penalties for possessing 40 grams or less of pot to a $100 infraction, generate $973,600 of revenue for the state. The state is already spending about 16 million dollars a year in prosecuting and jailing people for possession of pot for personal use according to a report (https://fortress.wa.gov/ofm/fnspublic/legsearch.asp?BillNumber=5615&SessionNumber=61) by the ACLU of Washington.

Will be waiting to see it passed on to the senate floor.

[Trajectory]

"Sir, I need to run your plate and license. This will take a few minutes, so please step out of the car and hold my bag of Cheetos for me."

LOL!! Perfect test.

[xXriderXx7]

"Sir, I need to run your plate and license. This will take a few minutes, so please step out of the car and hold my bag of Cheetos for me."

Epic Win.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Epic Win.

Thanks :) I missed this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B91wki_jQf0

[jmann]

Thanks :) I missed this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B91wki_jQf0

That video is awesome! :D The ending <3. :)

[TuffLuffJimmy]

That video is awesome! :D The ending <3. :)

Nick Swardson is one funny guy!