How does Apple keep things Soooo Secretive?

[akdj]

With a recent MB/MBP update, Nahelm not ready yet (for the Pros), it seems the iMac is the MOST anticipated update, to a lesser extent the Mini and 17" MBP...

HOW in the World does Apple keep such great secrets? With ALL of the pieces and parts....any outsourcing, etc....how is there not a bigger leak than the limited speculation we have on this board...8 hours before these new products drop?

What other company has EVER been able to do this? Especially with such eager anticipation from the frothing, drooling fan-base....and the New Recruits? Folks with the "itch to switch" from Windows with their first Macs.

Crazy! Especially for a publicly traded company....there are so few leaks of "real" information. Again, from my first sentence....we can almost use deductive reasoning to figure out which products will get updates, speed bumps, or full on make overs....but "real" info; like processors (Core 2 duo, Quad, i7), Display/LED, Blu-Ray....or even more-so....The next Ipod/Iphone/iMac invention that we have NEVER even DREAMED of on Macrumors. I will never forget when I bought my first Mac. I posted on Apple's forum a "speculation" thread....not even sure what I said, just wondering when something was coming or would be adopted by the platform. Before I got a single response, my thread was shut down because of "future product speculation!" I couldn't believe it....on the Creator's Creator website....I couldn't speculate. I immediately bumped into Macrumors after a quick google search. Ever since then...>Tuesdays are like Christmas! Watching the incessant speculation on this board and how rarely any one person gets it right.

Sorry for the ramble....Just can't believe that there aren't more leaks from the HQ's of our beloved platform. Apple's secrecy rivals that of the NSA, CIA, etc.

...Lookin forward to tomorrow:)

J

[NotFound]

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

[edesignuk]

Simple, if you leak information and they find out, you get taken to a replica of the London Dungeons under Apple HQ in Cupertino, where you will be horribly and slowly tortured to death, while listening to mmmm-bop on repeat on your choice of iPod.

:)

[Sun Baked]

Financial penalties for squealing like a pig, ATI dropped the ball and Steve did a last minute change yanking their contract.

They typically do their best to put smaller companies into dire financial straights with their lawyers, and when all else fails walk down to the DA to file a criminal complaint.

---

all else fails, buy them out, hire all their staff and have them sign agreements that make speaking again very hurtful.

[kellen]

Non disclosure agreements and the ability to release what they want to whom they want to.

[akdj]

I knew there was a place like that! Just knew it:)

Hilarious! Like there are magic elves cranking out new products....never to see our world!!! For fear those of us ferocious speculators will torture the poor little elves....to let us know whether or not Nahelm is ready YET!!!! Or WHY they took our FW 400 away!

Poor little dude(ette)s. Listening to Hanson all day

"Non disclosure agreements and the ability to release what they want to whom they want to"

LOL...I have worked in Radio and Entertainment for 19 years. Non diclosure, no compete, and No, don't talk about this and That crap has NEVER worked in my line of work! Not when more then one and a half people know about it, Especially Lawyers!!! They are the worst!~ Give them $50 and they'll squeal like a stuck pig:) Two of my three brothers are lawyers, HA!

No, I realize what a pain staking process they must go through to protect their assets with vendors, etc. Just seems like a like would be impossible to protect with that many people involved.

Maybe it's not the kind of information people (press) will pay for yet, therefore no reason for employees and vendors to talk....

J

[alphaod]

LOL...I have worked in Radio and Entertainment for 19 years. Non diclosure, no compete, and No, don't talk about this and That crap has NEVER worked in my line of work! Not when more then one and a half people know about it, Especially Lawyers!!! They are the worst!~ Give them $50 and they'll squeal like a stuck pig:) Two of my three brothers are lawyers, HA!
J

That only makes you untrustworthy. Nothing to be proud of.

[Tallest Skil]

Simple answer: People like to have a job. People like to know that they will have a job in the future.

Longer answer: This is your future if you leak: "So, it says here that your last employer, Apple, terminated you. Why was that?"

"I leaked industry secrets and intellectual property to the public."

"I see. Get out of my office. Good luck ever getting a job again."

[Fuchal]

Simple answer: People like to have a job. People like to know that they will have a job in the future.

Longer answer: This is your future if you leak: "So, it says here that your last employer, Apple, terminated you. Why was that?"

"I leaked industry secrets and intellectual property to the public."

"I see. Get out of my office. Good luck ever getting a job again."

Perhaps a job in politics would be in order.

[atszyman]

Perhaps a job in politics would be in order.

Even less likely. Many jobs in politics require access to information that is not available to the general public. Having someone who's already outed corporate secrets on staff would be a recipe for disaster, not to mention I would think that it would seriously impair your chances at getting any sort of government clearances.

[BornAgainMac]

Apple does a pretty good job with secrets.

Microsoft likes to blab about their products years before they come out. My understanding is that businesses like that because they know the roadmap so they can plan accordingly.

The problem is they miss delivery dates and / or consumers wait on purchasing decisions for the next thing. Businesses wait on things like service packs before they get in bed with Microsoft next thing.

[wesleyh]

It appears they succeeded in keeping everything secret because they had nothing noteworthy to announce this time.

[southerndoc]

People and companies sign non-disclosure agreements. Violate an NDA and you'll be sued.

[synagence]

Companies like Microsoft has sooooo many partner companies to deal with and they supply one component of a PC ... Apple controls more of the pie so they don't have to keep the myriad of PC manufacturers in the loop 2 years in advance so they can start adapting..

[mcpryon2]

I guess we found out how they kept the new iMac and Mac Mini secrets so well this year...

[Hoopdy]

Steve does all the work. The other employees just party it up and make Steve slave away developing Apple products...Why do you think he's lost so much weight?


*i know about his hormone problemm

[St0rMl0rD]

So for instance, someone who works for Apple and knows everything about new Macs; why wouldn't they just use the net to anonimously post information about that? If one takes good care of concealing the identity, it is VERY hard to track down that person. Or not?

-J

[edesignuk]

So for instance, someone who works for Apple and knows everything about new Macs; why wouldn't they just use the net to anonimously post information about that? If one takes good care of concealing the identity, it is VERY hard to track down that person. Or not?

-JNot.

Any and all traffic out of Apple will be logged (just like any other business). Apple will likely take anyone (site owner) to court that has published a leak to ascertain their source from web server logs (if the leak was serious enough to really pursue).

You could get away with it, but you'd stand a fair chance of being busted. If you're privy to the kind of info anyone would care about leaking, you probably don't want to risk your well paid job.

[St0rMl0rD]

Not.

Any and all traffic out of Apple will be logged (just like any other business). Apple will likely take anyone (site owner) to court that has published a leak to ascertain their source from web server logs (if the leak was serious enough to really pursue).

You could get away with it, but you'd stand a fair chance of being busted. If you're privy to the kind of info anyone would care about leaking, you probably don't want to risk your well paid job.

Yeah but why report directly from Apple? One could just go to a public www spot or something and post information from there. Do it under alias, and how are they gonna get you?

-J

[edesignuk]

Yeah but why report directly from Apple? One could just go to a public www spot or something and post information from there. Do it under alias, and how are they gonna get you?

-JI covered that.
Apple will likely take anyone (site owner) to court that has published a leak to ascertain their source from web server logs (if the leak was serious enough to really pursue).

[63dot]

Apple is not secretive. The NSA/FBI/Homeland Security is. Apple just likes to have more control over how they release their relatively very few items that they do have. Dell or some giant like that just puts out stuff all the time, far too much, and not much of it is easy to remember.

If you go through the posts here over the years, you can get a fairly good idea what Apple is going to do next most of the time. Macrumors pretty much got sources for the Cube, iPod, iPhone, and leaks of software just about every single time.

Only a couple of times looking here for 8 1/2 years has Apple completely surprised me, like with MBA, iLife, server stuff, and a couple of other things I wouldn't normally really pay that much attention to.

Many of their past keynotes would highlight their new OS months in advance.

[mags631]

Simple answer: People like to have a job. People like to know that they will have a job in the future.

Longer answer: This is your future if you leak: "So, it says here that your last employer, Apple, terminated you. Why was that?"

"I leaked industry secrets and intellectual property to the public."

"I see. Get out of my office. Good luck ever getting a job again."

That is an honest trade-secret leaker.

[Tallest Skil]

That is an honest trade-secret leaker.

It's either be honest in your interview and not get the job or lie in your interview and have Apple tell them directly when the company calls them to ask about your termination and not get the job.

What, you think that companies don't talk to one another when they hire former employees?

[63dot]

Microsoft likes to blab about their products years before they come out.


And it has really, really hurt them, and turned them into a much smaller company with products you can't find anywhere ;)

Anyway, whether a company is low key like Apple, or is more aggressive like Microsoft, in the end my dollar goes to a product if I find it useful. There is plenty of stuff out there now that I have not learned about.

And basically, I really don't care about what either company does next week, next month, next year.

Apple rarely lets me down, so I don't have to speculate as to what they are up to next. If you want an iPod, iPhone, or Mac, get it now, they are great products. Anyone who doesn't think so wouldn't likely join this site.

Even though it's called Macrumors, to me this site is about community more than being able to find out in advance what Apple is up to. And even if I found out in advance what they are going to put out, 97.9% percent of the computer market for home and business simply don't care.

If Apple's computer market share was 1/10 of 1% percent, I would still use it. I even use stuff on my Mac that I suspect very few people use a lot, like TextEdit, which I use for a lot of things. I have MS Word, but rarely use it outside of online school.

[63dot]

Simple answer: People like to have a job. People like to know that they will have a job in the future.

Longer answer: This is your future if you leak: "So, it says here that your last employer, Apple, terminated you. Why was that?"

"I leaked industry secrets and intellectual property to the public."

"I see. Get out of my office. Good luck ever getting a job again."

:)

...or if you are Microsoft or some huge PC box company, "Welcome".

The high tech industry is so incestuous that they don't even know how uniform they look to other industries. There seems to be a very big lack of creativity these days in hardware and software.

Though I have no problem with Apple products, so many others have copied them, that there isn't that wow factor anymore with a Mac.

When I bought my clamshell, I could hardly use the thing in public. It was so different, both in its hardware and software, that people were always asking to check the thing out. Today, Macs blend in more and if it wasn't for the logo, I would never know. People who had first generation iPods had that same problem since it was just so cool and revolutionary.

I don't know if this was the return of Steve Jobs or if Apple just had this amazing burst of energy of innovation from the blueberry iMac to first iBook to first iPod. Those earlier products were icebreakers unlike anything I see now these days and I don't think I will ever see Apple have that buzz again.

[OrangeSVTguy]

My understanding is they use alias' and have each individual part manufactured in different plants so no one knows this part is being devolped for said company. Then the final assembly plant is in an old abandoned underground nuclear fallout shelter somewhere in the desert or mountains of Area 51. That way if anyone squeals, they'll just let the aliens handle the rats.

[JML42691]

Not.

Any and all traffic out of Apple will be logged (just like any other business). Apple will likely take anyone (site owner) to court that has published a leak to ascertain their source from web server logs (if the leak was serious enough to really pursue)...
Ya, and I remember reading somewhere that arn was once faced with a subpoena once from Apple regarding the identity of somebody who leaked information, just goes to prove that Apple will go far to pursue somebody who leaks info. And nothing is anonymous today on the internet, there is always a way to track who you are, it is just a matter of how long and how hard you have to try to find who it was.

EDIT:
Article Quote:When a Macrumors.com visitor posted a schematic drawing of a new case for the PowerMac line of computers, site founder Arnold Kim got a subpoena demanding that he give up any information on the person who posted the drawing.

“I didn’t want to get someone in trouble, but I talked to some people and they said the wisest decision was to cooperate,” said Kim, 28, a medical intern at the University of North Carolina Hospitals. He gave authorities the poster’s e-mail address.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jan/07/business/fi-rumors7

[63dot]

Ya, and I remember reading somewhere that arn was once faced with a subpoena once from Apple regarding the identity of somebody who leaked information, just goes to prove that Apple will go far to pursue somebody who leaks info. And nothing is anonymous today on the internet, there is always a way to track who you are, it is just a matter of how long and how hard you have to try to find who it was.

EDIT:
Article Quote:

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jan/07/business/fi-rumors7

It's a good thing nothing bad happened to Arn and that this site has remained up.

However, in the law, non disclosure agreements are among the weakest form of legal documentation in American law. The first thing I find out in law school on day 1 is that "if you do what tv-lawyers and judges do, as to what popular culture makes us believe about the law, in 99% percent of the cases, you can get disbarred."

One of the favorite sets of cases of Appeals judges to eat for lunch are overturning non-disclosure agreements and disclaimers. Time to reverse and remand in high gear. Heck, if not for that, they would not have that much work. :) I have since had the nauseating feeling about the law as it is vs. the cozy world of tv-law, or popular culture law.

In a perfect world, people would sign non disclosure agreements and there wouldn't be high tech espionage, or if people squealed, they would get sued successfully. But as in life, but more so in American law, we are far from that perfect world.

When one company, for instance, spies on another, the threat of getting sued is just the cost of doing business as usual. The economic forces of getting that product, even if like in a Bill Gates' sort of way, is what produces your bottom line. To stay competitive is every MBA's mantra and lawyers are seen as slight nuisances. Think of it as insurance premiums when you get huge.

Anybody notice how XP was the jump up from Windows 2000? Lots of copying going on there, which led SJ to simply say sometimes you just have to be flattered. And who the heck wants to take BG to court? ;)

[CharlesX]

I don't see what would have been so bad, if someone told a friend back in August that nothing was going to happen to the Mini for another 8 months at least and that, if one was waiting, better not to wait and buy it now. If anything that would have helped Apple.

The only reason that hasn't happened yet, I think, is that no one is working on the Mini. The team was disbanded over 3 years ago and updating the parts has been an ad hoc project by whatever engineers are available.

Ridiculous. 18 months without an update. I know the OP said the iMac was the most anticipated update, but get real. Look up Moore's Law and realize the significance of 18 months in the computer industry, then look at the iMac.

[Soxy]

I haven't had time to read the entirety of this thread but everyone seems to have gotten the gist right.

Apple are incredibly vicious when it comes to this, and essentially the leak isn't worth the potential (probable) repercussions.

In Apple itself I'd assume only the higher-ups (ones with a huge yearly salary and industry reputation to lose) know about the plans.

In terms of factories, it's already been said, they'd hunt the individual(s) down, and it'd severely hurt the owners too.

As much as we want to know, I think if my job hung in the balance, or worse, or the prospect of being sued for millions of dollars or going to jail did, I'd keep pretty schtum. :p

As for why, it's Apple's strongest tactic, I mean what a lot of people don't realise is that Apple will be selling potentially thousands of "old" units of a system right up to and on the same day as they release new models, how many companies in this business can claim that? And it's all down to secrecy. Sucks for us, but we aren't the one's making record profits.

[St0rMl0rD]

And it's all down to secrecy. Sucks for us, but we aren't the one's making record profits.

No, but without us, there ARE no record profits.

-J

[Soxy]

No, but without us, there ARE no record profits.

-J

Unfortunately even if every member of MR who owns a Mac dropped off the map, Apple wouldn't notice.

You can probably count the amount of people who've out and out refused to buy a Mac because of Apple's Secrecy, on one hand.

[pwn247]

Apple keeps things secret to stay ahead of the game. What if: 6 months prior to the iPhone release, Apple comes out and says "WE'RE MAKING A TOUCHSCREEN CELL PHONE WITH THESE FEATURES: etc... etc...", imagine the companies (LG, Samsung, Sony...) who would immediately start producing a "touchscreen phone with these features: ...".

By keeping the iPhone a secret, Apple released a whole new product that we've never seen. By keeping it a secret, they also "WOW"ed the world at how thin the Air is.

And it seems to be serving Apple well. It seems that ~8 months after Apple releases a product, we see a very similar product coming from other companies. But by then, Apple's already got something new up their sleeve. It's clear that Apple is leading the pack when it comes to the consumer electronics market.

[St0rMl0rD]

As long as they continue making great products, we're all good. :D

-J

[63dot]

No, but without us, there ARE no record profits.

-J

I would have said that was the entirely the case for sure before the iPod, if "us" means Mac only users. Apple was smart to make the iPod available to all. Sometimes I will go to the mall or a college campus and not see one non-Apple MP3 player all day.

While a Mac costs more and is out of many a person's range, an iPod is much more readily mass produced and Apple could still charge a hefty markup for any iPod as, at least now, people are totally willing to pay hundreds for one as that does not break the bank.

[godaz]

Leak info lose your job...simple as.

[robotartfashion]

Simple answer: People like to have a job. People like to know that they will have a job in the future.

Longer answer: This is your future if you leak: "So, it says here that your last employer, Apple, terminated you. Why was that?"

"I leaked industry secrets and intellectual property to the public."

"I see. Get out of my office. Good luck ever getting a job again."

you'll find that nowadays even background check companies don't find out specifics about dismissals, they only verify if you were employed on the dates that you listed via your resume

providing you haven't committed felonies its your choice if you disclose why you aren't working for a company anymore. Your answer could be as simple as "I had to leave to take care of a sick family member" or "I needed a new challenge"

If you're a big enough idiot to say the above then you shouldn't be working there anyways (see: a large majority of corporate america)

[Lesser Evets]

How does Apple keep things secret?

A: They aren't making anything any more.

[CharlesX]

How does Apple keep things secret?

A: They aren't making anything any more.

This is truer than most would like to believe. Look at the desktop line. If you add the number of months together that the iMac, Mini, and Pro have gone without an update, right now it's 40. It's never been anywhere near that high before. The most it's ever been is 26.

[pwn247]

This is truer than most would like to believe. Look at the desktop line. If you add the number of months together that the iMac, Mini, and Pro have gone without an update, right now it's 40. It's never been anywhere near that high before. The most it's ever been is 26.

And we're overdue for an update. I hope if- and when- the desktop line is updated it's a BIG update, and EVERYTHING gets updated (Mini, iMac, Mac Pro).

[akdj]

"and I don't think I will ever see Apple have that buzz again."

Seems like a brave statement to me, 63Dot. Just got the Iphone, the Air, I think Apple is on to something with AppleTV (not that it is anywhere close yet:)), etc. I think the entire industry has their eye on Apple now. Dell, MS, Sony, even the boutique manufacturers like IBuyPower and AlienWare. I think the lure to get an Apple employee that is in the "know" to talk would be a serious temptation! Insider trade secrets are SUPER lucrative and prevalent in all industries.

But I'm not even speaking about the "Big Dogs" so much, as the 40 hour a week supply/labor/warehouse/design engineer....whatever guy or gal that has access to the "know." Obviously, there are better ways to leak secrets than your email or IP address at your employer's office. Internet cafes, fake ISP's, even friends talking to friends....or the old fashion way....someone just leaves an envelope on the reporter's doorstep with pictures and details:)

All kidding aside. Apple must take good care of their employees, provide an excellent working environment, and adequate compensation. If you have happy employees that believe in the product they are producing, perhaps you don't have to worry as much about "leakage." Not that I am naive, but seems to me, if employees realize that their paychecks are related to corporate secrecy or anonymity, the said employees may be less inclined to blab.

J

[63dot]

"and I don't think I will ever see Apple have that buzz again."

Seems like a brave statement to me, 63Dot. Just got the Iphone, the Air, I think Apple is on to something with AppleTV

Now that Steve Jobs is either retired or taking it easy from Apple Inc, I just don't think the press or many Mac/iPod/iPhone users will be as interested in that company.

Sure, it will still make the best stuff, don't get me wrong, it's just that Apple's resurgence in the late-90s, and their innovative iPhone and iPod were amazing moves in high tech, probably helped a lot by the genius of Steve Jobs. He may not be the best business person overall in is whole career, or the nicest guy, but he is the "buzz" master of all time in high tech products.

I simply can't see anybody with the type of charisma that Steve Jobs had these last ten years. Now that Apple Inc is on their feet and stable, they don't have great things to prove the way they did when they came back from the brink of destruction. Those were tense, and exciting days. It was fun to see Apple bounce back, and in some markets, grab the top spot.

Who can top that? Not even today's Apple Inc. IMHO.

Anyway, I hope Steve Jobs has a full recovery. Cancer is not an instant death sentence these days, even with pancreatic cancer.

[m1stake]

Actially pancreatic cancer is a death sentence: Jobs had an extremely rare variant that could be surgically removed. Most peopleare not so lucky to get this form, and similarly, most people can't afford the treatment either.

[63dot]

Actially pancreatic cancer is a death sentence: Jobs had an extremely rare variant that could be surgically removed. Most peopleare not so lucky to get this form, and similarly, most people can't afford the treatment either.

The other form is not as swift but is a long term threat from most medical sources on the internet. The press caught onto this pretty quickly and didn't make him sound like he was going to die right away.

More akin to diabetes or heart disease where it can eventually kill you, but not very fast such as the more aggressive form of pancreatic cancer. Where there are cancers with a very good long term prognosis, this one is usually not one of them. I knew a person who lost their husband to this long term version and another who had a couple of family members stricken. While rare, it is better to have that than the more common aggressive version, but still it's a bad cancer as far as cancers go.

[motulist]

Since we can't know what Job's genetic risk factors are, I wonder what environmental risk factors Jobs might've been exposed to. Off the top of my, I see a huge amount of stress for decades, possibly high levels of carcinogens from all the manufacturing processes he must've been around, possibly high levels of carcinogens from constantly being surrounded by newly unboxed technology gear which can emit toxins when new. Is it possible that being a vegetarian raises a person's risk of cancer, despite what we've been lead to believe by the media's terribly poor science reporting?

[63dot]

Since we can't know what Job's genetic risk factors are, I wonder what environmental risk factors Jobs might've been exposed to. Off the top of my, I see a huge amount of stress for decades, possibly high levels of carcinogens from all the manufacturing processes he must've been around, possibly high levels of carcinogens from constantly being surrounded by newly unboxed technology gear which can emit toxins when new. Is it possible that being a vegetarian raises a person's risk of cancer, despite what we've been lead to believe by the media's terribly poor science reporting?

What I found interesting in my family is that one form of cancer got passed through the generations, as I suppose people who have more than one family member with SJ's rarer form of pancreatic cancer. Sometimes a genetic factor can add to recurrence and increased risk to future offspring. As to what are the stress factors and environmental factors, there is probably little dispute over that.

While he may survive a long time, even with the ravages against his body at his age and his incredible stress level put on him this last decade, there is still no guarantee that he will want to come back to Apple Inc. and those CEO duties when he has already proven his worth and stabilized Apple for the long term.

I had a good friend who got leukemia and people would always say, "At least it's just leukemia and not lung cancer or melanoma", but the truth is that like the lesser form of pancreatic cancer, it's still cancer and not as benign as SJ would make you to believe. It's obviously been a struggle for him and what few people realize with cancer and many other diseases, is that the complications often kill people and not the cancer itself.