My Perfect iTunes Scam [Archive]

mystixman

Mar 4, 2004, 01:39 PM

I run the snack bar at my school, and the latest shipment of about 100 Pepsi and Sierra Mist bottles had the iTMS contest on them. Anyway, I hand picked the winners ( 25 in all ) and seperated them from the others. Whenever someone from the cosmetology class comes by ( Most of them wouldn't even know what a computer is ), I offer them a "Garunteed Winner" Pepsi. Even if they didn't want a Pepsi, they will still buy one. All of these bottles are still warm ( I intentionally didn't refrigerate them ), so I also get them a cup with ice and pour the Pepsi in it. In this whole process I write down the code. They get their "winning" bottle, and I get the code. :D

jelloshotsrule

Mar 4, 2004, 01:46 PM

wow, that's pretty scummy

agreenster

Mar 4, 2004, 01:48 PM

Very scummy. I love it.

Laslo Panaflex

Mar 4, 2004, 01:48 PM

Whatever you think is fair. I personally would not pull a scam like this on innocent people. Seriously, this scam is no better than just downloading music from Kazaa or whatever. I really don't think that Jobs and Pepsi had what you are doing in mind when they came up with the promotion.

mystixman

Mar 4, 2004, 01:48 PM

wow, that's pretty scummy

Nah, not really. These girls wouldn't even use the codes anyway!

wordmunger

Mar 4, 2004, 01:56 PM

It's amazing how low people will go for a lousy 25 bucks worth of music. I personally would not bother, but if others are willing to commit immoral, if not illegal acts in order to get a CD or two, I suppose that's the trade-off they make. Shoplifting would probably be easier.

jenniff

Mar 4, 2004, 01:56 PM

Nah, not really. These girls wouldn't even use the codes anyway!

You don't know that. I'm female, I use computers, and I've taken classes like that.

mystixman

Mar 4, 2004, 02:01 PM

You don't know that. I'm female, I use computers, and I've taken classes like that.

I'm not stereotyping females, I am talking about 95% of this one class that consists mostly of people that have *no* idea about iTunes

agreenster

Mar 4, 2004, 02:04 PM

Awww jeeez. C'mon guys (and gals). Immoral? Illegal? You're acting like he killed somebody. Is it a little bit slimy? Maybe, but he's not 'ripping them off' because they pay for a pepsi, and get a pepsi. Its a FREE promotion by Pepsi and Apple.

Okay, so what should you do? Show them the cap and say that they've won. If they ask what it is, tell them, and chances are they wont care. If one of them wants the cap and is an iTunes user, then maybe you can spark up a conversation and get a date. Cosmetology students are hot.

jelloshotsrule

Mar 4, 2004, 02:10 PM

why not just download the stuff for free if you're going to go to that much effort? lots more selection on kazaa or whatever it is people use these days

beefcake

Mar 4, 2004, 02:15 PM

Wow, nice work, criminal mastermind.

If you're looking to branch out, old ladies rarely see it coming when you run away with the groceries you offered to carry for them.

:rolleyes:

raiderz182

Mar 4, 2004, 02:19 PM

"good job"?
more like get a life..

17th Hole

Mar 4, 2004, 02:21 PM

jenniff

Mar 4, 2004, 02:29 PM

You all are missing the fact that there were only 25 winners out of 100 bottles, which means that Pepsi's claim that 1 in 3 is a winner is false. There should have been at least 33 winners. I'd sue Pepsi for 8 free downloads or make them send you check for $7.92. However, since you didn't pay for any of the bottles...

Of course, I'm just kidding, but seriously...shouldn't there have been a few more winning caps in that batch? Just a thought...

It's all part of the scam. I've noticed in college campus vending machines, the ratio of winners to losers is much closer to 1:2 or even 3:5 than 1:3. Makes sense: get the college kiddies hooked on downloading iTMS music.

What bothers me so much isn't that you are taking the winning caps, but that you're not telling the people that you are taking them. If you just asked, they probably wouldn't care. On campus, I told everyone that I was collecting them, so people just started giving to me. I got six or seven in a couple days that way.

rainman::|:|

Mar 4, 2004, 02:37 PM

who the hell cares? seems pointless to take a moral highground on such an issue... My thought is usually, if you're clever enough to come up with it, more power to you...

paul

dxp4acu

Mar 4, 2004, 02:45 PM

Man, this guy's a loser...

Not that that's bad. We're all losers at some things.

SiliconAddict

Mar 4, 2004, 02:47 PM

wow, that's pretty scummy

Gotta agree. Scum thy name is mystixman. Not really anything to be proud of.

D*I*S_Frontman

Mar 4, 2004, 02:59 PM

Wow. If you spent half the effort in actually finding something PRODUCTIVE to do that you have put into this lower-than-pond-scum ripoff scheme, you could legally buy all the iTunes you want. It would be great if someone else from your school trolled this board and reported you to the school administration. You are an idiot for doing it and twice the idiot for bragging about it online.

I hope one of these "girls" gives her winning cap to her captain-of-the-football-team boyfriend who gets denied by Apple when he tries to download his favorite track. He screams, she cries, and after a few moments of reflection they figure out the scam. The next day at school he and the rest of the defensive line meet up with you in the bathroom...

Kwyjibo

Mar 4, 2004, 03:20 PM

good scam, work smarter not harder

hes not really doing anything wrong if they are not seeing this its half their fault. Pt Barnum always said theres a sucker born everyday ...

Hes not going to get beaten up over this.... thats just dumb. I mean if a gang of guys gets pissed over $1 then well hes got bigger problems than this guy messing around with his girlfriends chances to win music ...

OutThere

Mar 4, 2004, 03:21 PM

jenniff

Mar 4, 2004, 03:23 PM

hes not really doing anything wrong if they are not seeing this its half their fault. Pt Barnum always said theres a sucker born everyday ...

What kind of logic is that? It's half their fault?

Someone hands me a pop top and says I'm a winner, I don't assume that they're going to jot down the code so when I go home and try it out it's invalid. I think "Oh, woot, I won a song. I'm going to go home and type this in." How could it ever be half their fault??

jelloshotsrule

Mar 4, 2004, 03:34 PM

Whenever someone from the cosmetology class comes by ( Most of them wouldn't even know what a computer is ), I offer them a "Garunteed Winner" Pepsi.

quick question: would any of these dumb bimbos you are apparently so knowledgeable of know how to spell the word "guaranteed" correctly?

mystixman

Mar 4, 2004, 03:52 PM

quick question: would any of these dumb bimbos you are apparently so knowledgeable of know how to spell the word "guaranteed" correctly?

Umm, it's a typo. I'm sure you make them too!

And holy crap guys, I didn't expect everyone to be so passionate about this! :confused:

tomf87

Mar 4, 2004, 03:58 PM

I guess you are seeing that most people, including myself, think stealing anything is stealing, no matter what way you look at it.

Imagine reaching into any person's wallet/purse and plucking a dollar out. I would hope most people would say, "Hey, you stole that dollar!" not "Hey, since you got away with it, that's okay." Bring that up to a larger scale, say stealing a car, computer, etc, and I think everyone would think that is stealing. Now, at what point is it OK to take and where does it cross the line stealing?

To put it another way, would you want someone to do the same thing to you? I know I wouldn't at least.

Cheers,

tomf87

jenniff

Mar 4, 2004, 04:00 PM

Wow, nice work, criminal mastermind.

If you're looking to branch out, old ladies rarely see it coming when you run away with the groceries you offered to carry for them.

:rolleyes:

I just read that again. I didn't get it the first time I read it (probably because I read it fast and didn't read the whole thing). That's hysterical. I have to give you kudos, man, because these forums almost never make me laugh out loud.

ij3ffy

Mar 4, 2004, 04:03 PM

Why not just skip all that and take their money and put it in your pocket instead of putting it in the cash register? At least you would be cutting through all the B.S. and getting right to the stealing. What amazes me is your excitement about this. What kinda school you go to? Hopefully a grade school or a special education school, then that way you can at least justify your moronic behavior in some fashion. Anyone that would sell out their decency for $24.75 is nothing to take pride in.

mactastic

Mar 4, 2004, 04:11 PM

Wow, nice work, criminal mastermind.

If you're looking to branch out, old ladies rarely see it coming when you run away with the groceries you offered to carry for them.

:rolleyes:

Along those same lines....

"See boy, the real money is in bootlegging, not your childish vandalism."
Homer Simpson

Kwyjibo

Mar 4, 2004, 04:35 PM

What kind of logic is that? It's half their fault?

Someone hands me a pop top and says I'm a winner, I don't assume that they're going to jot down the code so when I go home and try it out it's invalid. I think "Oh, woot, I won a song. I'm going to go home and type this in." How could it ever be half their fault??

They let him open them for him, they don't ask if he has any cold ones, or even watch the guy as he opens their pop for them ... yeah i'm victim blaming ... but half the problem is what the victim does perhaps they should be wonderign why they always get a winner or they should goto a pop machine if this is really becoming a problem to them personally.

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 4, 2004, 04:36 PM

Umm, it's a typo. I'm sure you make them too!

And holy crap guys, I didn't expect everyone to be so passionate about this! :confused:

Basically it is theft.

As to the girls. That is like saying that since you work in a cafeteria, you will always work in a cafeteria. Or at the least you might move up to the QwikiMart. I would hope that is not the case.

So hopefully you learned one of two things. Either keep something like this to yourself and live with bad karma, or do the right thing by people. I hope it is the later.

jenniff

Mar 4, 2004, 04:46 PM

They let him open them for him, they don't ask if he has any cold ones, or even watch the guy as he opens their pop for them ... yeah i'm victim blaming ... but half the problem is what the victim does perhaps they should be wonderign why they always get a winner or they should goto a pop machine if this is really becoming a problem to them personally.

I still don't like your logic. It's such a stretch, hehe. I'm sure the chicas don't care, which is why they don't make a fuss when he opens their Pepsi for them.

I just know that Jiminy Cricket wouldn't like the whole situation.

johnnyjibbs

Mar 4, 2004, 05:30 PM

You all are missing the fact that there were only 25 winners out of 100 bottles, which means that Pepsi's claim that 1 in 3 is a winner is false. There should have been at least 33 winners. I'd sue Pepsi for 8 free downloads or make them send you check for $7.92. However, since you didn't pay for any of the bottles...

Of course, I'm just kidding, but seriously...shouldn't there have been a few more winning caps in that batch? Just a thought...
I know you're kidding, but there is a possibility that, out of 100 bottles, none are winners, and yet 1/3 are still winners overall. That's just the laws of chance, not to mention bias due to geographical distribution, etc. And 100 is not a very big sample number: if you had 1000 bottles, I would have thought the number would have been closer to 333.

The original poster is acting slightly imorraly in my opinion but then it's not a huge deal. You could argue that looking up the winner by doing that angle trick is cheating. Of course, I've never seen, or will ever likely to see, one of these bottles because the chances of a Pepsi promotion or even iTMS Europe arriving any time soon are very slim. So count yourself lucky, even if you do buy a Pepsi at the same time!

russed

Mar 4, 2004, 05:49 PM

good work, i dont see anything wrong with what you are doing, use your initiative and reap the rewards. i dont see why so many people are making such a fuss about it!

dukemeiser

Mar 4, 2004, 05:51 PM

I think it is great. More power to ya!

dukemeiser

Mar 4, 2004, 05:57 PM

good work, i dont see anything wrong with what you are doing, use your initiative and reap the rewards. i dont see why so many people are making such a fuss about it!

Because iTunes is the devil!

TheWitePony

Mar 4, 2004, 09:08 PM

Wow, you're pure evil, na just kidding.

MrMacMan

Mar 4, 2004, 09:45 PM

:gives props:

congrads on stealing away their chances at a contest!

Why the hell even post this, your gonna get flamed...

Also what your doing is illegal. You can't sell people products with the notion that they are winners but also have already redeemed their 'winner' caps already.

Its not only immoral, but illegal.

mactastic

Mar 4, 2004, 10:03 PM

Hehe, and you posted proof of a crime online! That's about as bad as those people who videotape their crime sprees. Good luck if anyone ever connects your IRL identity with this one!

solvs

Mar 4, 2004, 10:26 PM

I'm not going to rag on you as much as everyone else here for the act itself. Well, those who aren't congratulating you. But to come to a place like this and brag about doing something that, at the very least, is a little morally ambiguous, and be surprised by the negative reaction... well, that's just dumb.

You know, maybe I will rag on you. Who knows, maybe they'd never use them. Maybe they would have just tossed them. But maybe they wouldn't have. You don't know. Maybe they'd give them to someone who would have used it. They didn't give them to you, you took them.

Couldn't you just have asked them if they minded? Said you were recycling, or something? Then you'd just be a liar instead of a petty thief.

ethernet76

Mar 4, 2004, 10:49 PM

It's not so much theft as it is fraud. And fraud looks a lot worse on your record than petty theft. Also think of all the people who bought the bottles hoping for a winner. All in all you screwed 100 people, not just the 25 cosmo students.

You are honestly just a lousy piece of crap.

Why don't you just kick my dog while you're at it. Later you can boink my mom, no she's not hot, and then rape me.

abhishekit

Mar 4, 2004, 10:57 PM

Well I would look at it practically...Unless the guy is a genius he wont be able to memorize the code by one look..so he would be like really looking at the cap..And now think of a customer who is aware of itunes and the song giveaway..his first reaction would be to look at the cap..and not stand on his/her as* and watch the guy over the counter preparing the drink..
so i feel really theres no harm done..
For example, there is an offer at grocery store that you buy a pepsi, u get a free candy or if you dont take it, its thrown in trash...., and a buyer doesnt eat candy, doesnt know candy exists, never seen anyone eating candy, ...in that case, rather trash it, its better if the shopkeeper whoz a candy addict gets the candy,,,,
so..u know...:p

Edot

Mar 4, 2004, 11:14 PM

If people here drank Pepsi (they don't) I might just tell people that I was collecting the caps, most people wouldn't care and give them to me anyway. Just put out a jar on the snack bar counter that says "Give me your winning caps.", and remind people when they come by. You'll get quite a few caps that way.

I know someone who is going to get to the 200 max easy! That is $200 worth of songs that young people just gave to him. I will post of pic of all of them when he gets to 200. The extras are mine!:D

LethalWolfe

Mar 5, 2004, 12:00 AM

Umm, it's a typo. I'm sure you make them too!

And holy crap guys, I didn't expect everyone to be so passionate about this! :confused:

What? You want props for ripping people off? What are you, 13 (no offense to the nondeviant 13yr olds on this board)?

Lethal

IJ Reilly

Mar 5, 2004, 12:42 AM

It may be a small and relatively harmless scam, but it's always bad karma to rip people off. If you're not careful, you're going to come back in the next life as something really tiny. Do you really want to be a centipede?

sinbushar

Mar 5, 2004, 01:45 AM

i serioulsy feel disgusted when reading this...mostly due to the fact that this creep is doing this, and partly due to the fact that half of you support him...

stealing is stealing...there really isn't any other way to look at it...the fact that you are bragging about it is even more disturbing....

*blech*...get a life...and try to develop a conscience

virividox

Mar 5, 2004, 02:10 AM

ur just one machiavelli arent u.

watever floats ur boat

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 03:22 AM

i think it's a great idea! would i do it now? no, i'm too old and don't need to. but i'm sure i would have when i was a teenager. i agree that these girls couldn't give a swimming ***** about iTunes and they'd just throw the cap in the garbage moments later. he could follow them around with rubber gloves on fishing their caps out of the trash. would that make it better in some way? if they wanted their cap they could just ask for it. i do it all the time. sometimes i like having the cap so i can throw it in a bag or something for later. i really don't see the big deal.

yeah, i know it's wrong to stereo type cosmetology babes but i'm gonna anyway. after all, stereotypes exist for a reason. trust me, i dated a cosmetology/fashion student. she called my Mac an "Apple", she thought America Online was "the internet", and she never figured out how to use her iPod. and she would NOT have asked for the cap back. damn it's true, NOBODY stands up for the geeks. i don't think of this dude as a criminal, just a resourceful nerd. and i mean that in a good way.

and further more, i don't think this is even punishable by law. so then it's not illegal, right? sneaky, but not illegal. don't be jealous.

IndyGopher

Mar 5, 2004, 04:55 AM

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 05:09 AM

Am I missing how this is any different from a waiter or waitress adding 99 cents to your bill when they run your credit card? They won it. It's theirs, and you stole it. If I throw away a dollar bill, it's my choice. But just because I threw away one dollar doesn't mean you get to take my wallet...

no of course not, but i do get to go in the trash and get that dollar if i want it. don't tell me you wouldn't pick up a $100 bill that someone (hypothetically of course) threw into the trash knowingly. you're saying "that guy has the right to throw his money away without me going and getting it afterwards. if he wants it in the trash, then in the trash it shall stay..." c'mon, that's absurd. and a lie. so ok, let's say i'm NOT psychic and you give each of these broads a fair shake and let 'em walk off with their winning cap. you see her toss it in the trash down the hall. are you saying it's wrong to take it out of the garbage? that's all i am seeing this as, only saving a trip into the trash can.

we are talking about a young kid here. is this really that big a deal? a kid could be spending his time plotting MUCH worse schemes than this. i just don't think it's a big deal. it's kinda funny to me. again, i wouldn't do it myself because i am an adult who knows better but i can see a younger, stupider, broker version of myself doing something like this. that is, if i ever thought of something like this. i'm not a very good schemer though. so what, the kid gets $25 worth of free music that would have ended up never getting redeemed anyway. B-F-D

russed

Mar 5, 2004, 05:15 AM

its getting quite ethical all this isnt it! it almost puts me in the mood for writing my ethics essay - yet again maybe not!

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 05:19 AM

from the Official Rules on Apple's Site...

2. WHERE TO FIND GAME PIECES: Look for game piece printed underneath bottle caps on specially-marked “iTunes” 20 oz. and 1 liter bottles of Pepsi, Diet Pepsi and Sierra Mist and under the rim of specially-marked 32 oz. fountain cups available at participating 7 Eleven convenience stores during the Promotion Period. Not all brands and package sizes may participate in all areas. No Purchase Necessary.

ok, so he "looked for a game piece..." and won. it doesn't matter who purchased it as it clearly states "No Purchase Necessary". if a purchase isn't necessary and the object of this "game" is to simply "look" for winning pieces than i consider this a game of life. he's a good player. she dropped the ball.

russed

Mar 5, 2004, 05:25 AM

though doesnt the no purchase necessary just mean that if you do win, you dont actually have to claim the free track or something like that? all compititions have that written on them.

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 5, 2004, 06:14 AM

from the Official Rules on Apple's Site...

[COLOR=Red]2. WHERE TO FIND GAME PIECES: Look for game piece printed underneath bottle caps on specially-marked “iTunes” 20 oz. and 1 liter bottles of Pepsi, Diet Pepsi and Sierra Mist and under the rim of specially-marked 32 oz. fountain cups available at participating 7 Eleven convenience stores during the Promotion Period. Not all brands and package sizes may participate in all areas. No Purchase Necessary.
ok, so he "looked for a game piece..." and won. it doesn't matter who purchased it as it clearly states "No Purchase Necessary". if a purchase isn't necessary and the object of this "game" is to simply "look" for winning pieces than i consider this a game of life. he's a good player. she dropped the ball.

Nice revisionist posting. you should have pasted the entire rule:

2. WHERE TO FIND GAME PIECES: Look for game piece printed underneath bottle caps on specially-marked “iTunes” 20 oz. and 1 liter bottles of Pepsi, Diet Pepsi and Sierra Mist and under the rim of specially-marked 32 oz. fountain cups available at participating 7 Eleven convenience stores during the Promotion Period. Not all brands and package sizes may participate in all areas. No Purchase Necessary. To receive one free game piece and a copy of Official Rules, while supplies last, send a self-addressed, stamped envelope postmarked on or before 3/31/04 to: Pepsi iTunes Game Piece, P.O. Box 9205, Young America, MN 55558-9205. Residents of the state of VT may omit return postage. Limit one free game piece per request per stamped outer envelope. Pepsi-Cola Company (“Sponsor”) assumes no liability for lost, late, stolen, illegible, misdirected, mutilated, incomplete or postage-due mail or requests.

jelloshotsrule

Mar 5, 2004, 01:47 PM

so ok, let's say i'm NOT psychic and you give each of these broads a fair shake and let 'em walk off with their winning cap. you see her toss it in the trash down the hall. are you saying it's wrong to take it out of the garbage? that's all i am seeing this as, only saving a trip into the trash can.

we are talking about a young kid here. is this really that big a deal? a kid could be spending his time plotting MUCH worse schemes than this. i just don't think it's a big deal. it's kinda funny to me. again, i wouldn't do it myself because i am an adult who knows better but i can see a younger, stupider, broker version of myself doing something like this. that is, if i ever thought of something like this. i'm not a very good schemer though. so what, the kid gets $25 worth of free music that would have ended up never getting redeemed anyway. B-F-D

so you read minds? can you read mine? or just that of "broads"?

true, he could've done much worse.

and joe murderer could've plotted to kill 50 people instead of 1. so let him go free! whooo!

your logic is... well. it's not there.

brianellisrules

Mar 5, 2004, 02:34 PM

what about the people who actually want to win?

Mantat

Mar 5, 2004, 02:44 PM

First of all I would like to point out a few things:
- as someone said, he is not screwing 25 girls, but 100 potential customers
- he is not stealing because these people are buying the drink, not the bottle. If they were buying the bottle they wouls ask for it.

On the other hand, it is a fraud since he is using 'insider knowledge' to get an advantage over the other customer.

What he is doing can be qualified of:
- imaginative
- clever
- non ethical.

Non ethical because he is not repecting the 'spirit' of the contest. Also, the contest is to promote the ITMS which he is not talking about at all. So bottom line: he is going to hell! :D

If I was in his situation, I would have done ALMOST the same thing except that I would have given the winning bottle to the girls, talked about the contest, act as surprised as them when she see the winning cap, congratulate her and get a date!

The hardest part of getting a date is to find a nice situation to introduce yourself and this one seem pretty good to me. After all, who doesnt like free music?

BTW, I am very surprised to see how ethical some of the people here are claiming to be. Do you respect the law in every part of your life? Because crossing the street when the light is red IS a crime... And as you all pointed out, a crime is a crime, no matter how big it is...

You can slap the guy behind the head telling him that he is doing something wrong, but dont claim that you are perfect!

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 5, 2004, 03:29 PM

BTW, I am very surprised to see how ethical some of the people here are claiming to be. Do you respect the law in every part of your life? Because crossing the street when the light is red IS a crime... And as you all pointed out, a crime is a crime, no matter how big it is...

You can slap the guy behind the head telling him that he is doing something wrong, but dont claim that you are perfect!

Some of us really try. I am the one you curse at for not running the red light, allowing a pedestrian that is in a cross walk the right of way, trying to stay within 5mph of the speed limit. Am i perfect, no. But we should strive to be the very best that we can be.

By encouraging such behavior we are sending the wrong message. Not to say that he would go on to worse things, but yet others started small and went on to bigger crimes.

The problem I see is that church has fallen out of favor for many families. Otherwise we wouldn't see some of the problems that we do. I was brought up to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

IndyGopher

Mar 5, 2004, 03:32 PM

no of course not, but i do get to go in the trash and get that dollar if i want it. don't tell me you wouldn't pick up a $100 bill that someone (hypothetically of course) threw into the trash knowingly. you're saying "that guy has the right to throw his money away without me going and getting it afterwards. if he wants it in the trash, then in the trash it shall stay..." c'mon, that's absurd. and a lie. so ok, let's say i'm NOT psychic and you give each of these broads a fair shake and let 'em walk off with their winning cap. you see her toss it in the trash down the hall. are you saying it's wrong to take it out of the garbage? that's all i am seeing this as, only saving a trip into the trash can.

Totally NOT what I said, as you well know. If he wants to offer to throw away the bottles and caps for all 100 of the people, and then gets them out of the trash, so long as he doesn't know beforehand which are winners, then there would be nothing wrong with it. Now that he has segregated the winners from the losers, however, that isn't an option anymore.
Nothing you say is going to make this situation anything less than intentional deception, perpetrated on all of the customers. If you're ok with that, fine. That is between you and your conscience. Trying to make everyone see it as OK to soothe your conscience, though, is totally uncool.
As for someone's statement about exploiting inside information, ask Martha Stewart if that's ok.

IndyGopher

Mar 5, 2004, 03:38 PM

BTW, I am very surprised to see how ethical some of the people here are claiming to be. Do you respect the law in every part of your life? Because crossing the street when the light is red IS a crime... And as you all pointed out, a crime is a crime, no matter how big it is...

You can slap the guy behind the head telling him that he is doing something wrong, but dont claim that you are perfect!
Much as you apparently don't want to believe it, there are people out here that actually (GASP) follow the law. That means no jay-walking, not speeding up when the light turns yellow, following the speed limits (ya know, it is the MAXIMUM speed, not the MINIMUM) and all those other little things that people seem to think don't matter anymore. And while I can't speak for the others that follow the rules (bless them) I for one think those that don't are the real root of all (yes, all) of the problems in our society.

Mantat

Mar 5, 2004, 03:39 PM

The problem I see is that church has fallen out of favor for many families. Otherwise we wouldn't see some of the problems that we do. I was brought up to do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Church wouldnt solve the problem at all. Its full of vice and perversion. What people need is moral, either from religion (as you stated) or common sens. The single most important thing to know and do in life is:
'dont do something that you would not want someone else to do to you'.

Its all about being a good citizen...

edit: Before getting flamed, I want to precise that I am not at all againts the principle dictated by the bible but againts some of its messenger.

edit: I do respect the law as much as I can btw.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:03 PM

Nice revisionist posting. you should have pasted the entire rule:

2. WHERE TO FIND GAME PIECES: Look for game piece printed underneath bottle caps on specially-marked “iTunes” 20 oz. and 1 liter bottles of Pepsi, Diet Pepsi and Sierra Mist and under the rim of specially-marked 32 oz. fountain cups available at participating 7 Eleven convenience stores during the Promotion Period. Not all brands and package sizes may participate in all areas. No Purchase Necessary. To receive one free game piece and a copy of Official Rules, while supplies last, send a self-addressed, stamped envelope postmarked on or before 3/31/04 to: Pepsi iTunes Game Piece, P.O. Box 9205, Young America, MN 55558-9205. Residents of the state of VT may omit return postage. Limit one free game piece per request per stamped outer envelope. Pepsi-Cola Company (“Sponsor”) assumes no liability for lost, late, stolen, illegible, misdirected, mutilated, incomplete or postage-due mail or requests.

why? the rest of it is of absolutely no consequence to this conversation, and a waste of space.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:06 PM

though doesnt the no purchase necessary just mean that if you do win, you dont actually have to claim the free track or something like that? all compititions have that written on them.

NO. it means that there you don't necessarily have to have bought the item to claim a winning prize. for example, if you found it on the street. just like a lottery ticket.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:15 PM

...Nothing you say is going to make this situation anything less than intentional deception, perpetrated on all of the customers. If you're ok with that, fine. That is between you and your conscience. Trying to make everyone see it as OK to soothe your conscience, though, is totally uncool.
As for someone's statement about exploiting inside information, ask Martha Stewart if that's ok.

my conscience is just fine, because i haven't done anything wrong. and i would never have the audacity to claim to know how someone else is feeling, or what their conscience is telling them. i'll let YOU know when i feel bad about what i'm saying.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:22 PM

Much as you apparently don't want to believe it, there are people out here that actually (GASP) follow the law. That means no jay-walking, not speeding up when the light turns yellow, following the speed limits (ya know, it is the MAXIMUM speed, not the MINIMUM) and all those other little things that people seem to think don't matter anymore. And while I can't speak for the others that follow the rules (bless them) I for one think those that don't are the real root of all (yes, all) of the problems in our society.

sounds like fun! yes, jaywalkers are the reason there is so much racism, poverty, AIDS, war, murder, drugs, and every other evil we suffer from. gosh, it must be nice to grow up in such a sheltered existence. i'm guessing you haven't seen ANY of these things first hand. you sound like one of these "3 strikes" supporters who give drug addicts the death sentence. i admire people who can cast judgments on the rest of society from atop Mt. Pleasant where the air is fresh, everyone drives the speed limit, and all the ladies are virgins. trust me dood, jaywalkers and people who go through yellow light are NOT the reason for our downfall. maybe in your town, but not out here in civilization. i have never stolen anything, never killed anyone, i take my vitamins, i've never had a cavity. but i jaywalk all the time, i go through yellow lights, and sometimes i even speed! it's called BEING IN A HURRY. forgive me for not feeling guilty for contributing to the decline of society. :rolleyes:

tomf87

Mar 5, 2004, 04:32 PM

He didn't say jaywalking was the root cause of all evil. He said that people who don't follow the rules are. There is a big difference there. Do jaywalkers cause all of the murders? No. Do murderers cause all of the murders? Yes. They are both not following the rules, but they can both be in the same general category. Of course, they can be split too.

Back on topic, I still think that it is stealing, because the code is for those who pay for the Pepsi, not the guy selling, handling, shipping, delivering, etc. The customer's dollar was used to pay for the bottle and therefore has the right to redeem the code. Essentially, he's using some other person's money for purchasing items/goods.

It was worthwhile to have the entire rule posted, because the rule didn't stop at "No Purchase Necessary". It says "No Purchase Necessary" then goes on to tell how you can get a game piece without buying anything.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:37 PM

...It was worthwhile to have the entire rule posted, because the rule didn't stop at "No Purchase Necessary". It says "No Purchase Necessary" then goes on to tell how you can get a game piece without buying anything.

look i just yet edited another quote! ;) about 5 years ago there was a woman who went into about 20 supermarkets peeling stickers off of cereal boxes in attempt to win a prize. she eventually found a winner. she was also caught and brought to court. guess what? she won. why?
NO PURCHASE NECCESSARY.

tomf87

Mar 5, 2004, 04:39 PM

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:44 PM

He didn't say jaywalking was the root cause of all evil. He said that people who don't follow the rules are. There is a big difference there. Do jaywalkers cause all of the murders? No. Do murderers cause all of the murders? Yes. They are both not following the rules, but they can both be in the same general category. Of course, they can be split too...

i just don't see things as being this black & white. i never said that this little iTunes scam was a GOOD thing to do. i'd probably feel a little bad about it. but i don't feel i have the right to judge anyone. maybe this kid doesn't see it as a bad thing at all. maybe he does. and maybe he doesn't care. that's not for me to decide and surely not for me to get on his case about it. that's what his parents are for. my job is to laugh about it because i get a kick out of the way kids think. yes, it would be nice to see his ingenuity go in a more positive direction. maybe it will someday. for now, i'm just gonna laugh and not get my briefs in a situation over his cafeteria antics.

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 04:50 PM

Don't edit me!!! ;) Had to say it.. :)

Any way, I don't think the court system is always centered around what is morally right. Just like the McDonald's case where the woman spilled the coffee in her lap and sued. She won because the coffee was too hot. Just another case where the court doesn't have its sights clear, IMHO.

i agree with you on that. it's similar to these parents of fat kids who are now suing all the fast food chains for the poor health of their children. it's just absurdity to the nth degree. now, no the other hand i DO think that fast food places should indeed have to print nutritional facts and ingredients on all the packaging. they get by without doing under this lame loophole in the law that considers them to be a "restaurant". there are people (me included) who have serious conditions and allergies to certain foods. i would never in a million years expect it to be healthy, but it would be nice to know exactly what the is in there. :)

tomf87

Mar 5, 2004, 04:51 PM

That's true that we are not to judge one another. I'm not judging the person. What I am doing is pointing out that is not a moral thing to do. I guess that is one of the gray areas where people can say you're judging, not guiding and vice versa.

At any rate, my 2 cents were given. Cheers everyone!

And tjwett, don't quote only part of me! :)

tomf87

Mar 5, 2004, 04:53 PM

i agree with you on that. it's similar to these parents of fat kids who are now suing all the fast food chains for the poor health of their children. it's just absurdity to the nth degree. now, no the other hand i DO think that fast food places should indeed have to print nutritional facts and ingredients on all the packaging. they get by without doing under this lame loophole in the law that considers them to be a "restaurant". there are people (me included) who have serious conditions and allergies to certain foods. i would never in a million years expect it to be healthy, but it would be nice to know exactly what the is in there. :)

I think that is a law they have to provide you that information if requested. I've seen in the Burger King and McD's in the area where they have the entire nutritional information on their food posted on the wall with several copies, free for the taking.

leftbanke7

Mar 5, 2004, 05:01 PM

Chip NoVaMac

Mar 5, 2004, 05:03 PM

why? the rest of it is of absolutely no consequence to this conversation, and a waste of space.

If you remember your reading comprehension class, it does. The part you omitted was only to suit your purpose. The "no purchase necessary" was referring to the subsequent details in section #2. But everyone else knows that.

Nice try, but you get and "F" on this assignment.

Saw your other post. That does not mean that another judge would agree with your position.

BTW tell me where you drive so that you don't end up running that yellow light that is really red and run into me or my friends. Slow down you'll live longer (and so will the rest of us because of it).

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 05:15 PM

I think that is a law they have to provide you that information if requested. I've seen in the Burger King and McD's in the area where they have the entire nutritional information on their food posted on the wall with several copies, free for the taking.

good to know!

tjwett

Mar 5, 2004, 05:23 PM

If you remember your reading comprehension class, it does. The part you omitted was only to suit your purpose. The "no purchase necessary" was referring to the subsequent details in section #2. But everyone else knows that.

Nice try, but you get and "F" on this assignment.

Saw your other post. That does not mean that another judge would agree with your position.

BTW tell me where you drive so that you don't end up running that yellow light that is really red and run into me or my friends. Slow down you'll live longer (and so will the rest of us because of it).

actually i omitted the last part because it was just some jibberish about self addresses stamped envelopes with an address and rules about them not being responsible for lost or misprinted mail. i've reread over the part i omitted about 5 times now and i still don't see the relevance. i drive in NYC and i think anyone who's been in the back of a yellow cab would agree that going through the occasional yellow light is nothing compared to the other lunatics on the road.

noel4r

Mar 5, 2004, 05:51 PM

Wow, that's pretty bad. What's even worse is how you spelled "Garunteed".

mactastic

Mar 5, 2004, 05:59 PM

mystixman

Mar 5, 2004, 07:35 PM

What gets me about this whole thing is not him taking the caps nor bragging about his fortune online, but rather that his scheme is based solely on the gender-based stereotypes that women 1. don't use computers and 2. females that take cosmotology are mentally inferior. It's amazing how antiquated some people's mindsets are in this modern day. I hope not that he get busted for his fraud but that a group of feminists finds out about this and makes his life a living hell. If there is one group of people with the resources and determination to do such a thing, a group of highly motivated feminists would be them. Anybody have Martha Burk's phone number?

Actually I wasn't stereotyping. This is a school for mostly kids interested in science, math, and computers, but there is also this cosmetology class where the only pre-requisite is to not have more then 17 absences a semester. They are some of the most dim witted people I have ever seen. It would be like saying there are crazy people in a mental hospital.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 07:39 PM

You're actually PROUD of that?
How sad.

sinbushar

Mar 5, 2004, 07:47 PM

leftbanke7

Mar 5, 2004, 07:55 PM

Actually I wasn't stereotyping. This is a school for mostly kids interested in science, math, and computers, but there is also this cosmetology class where the only pre-requisite is to not have more then 17 absences a semester. They are some of the most dim witted people I have ever seen. It would be like saying there are crazy people in a mental hospital.

Well, good for you for stroking your ego and oursmarting them. You are a credit to your family, your school and society as a whole.

As for them being dimwitted. Is this something you know for a fact or made this assumption based on 2 or 3 conversations you happen to overhear? I get the impression you decided you'd use your "superior logic based intellect" to out smart these "stupid hairdressers" probably out of some deep seated resentment for them (ie. getting turned down for a date or something) but that is just my humble opinion. I'd be careful about overgeneralizing people. One day it'll come back and bite you in your posterior.

ethernet76

Mar 5, 2004, 11:09 PM

Actually I wasn't stereotyping. This is a school for mostly kids interested in science, math, and computers, but there is also this cosmetology class where the only pre-requisite is to not have more then 17 absences a semester. They are some of the most dim witted people I have ever seen. It would be like saying there are crazy people in a mental hospital.

What because you're "smarter" than a couple of students means what? In that case I move that we install a caste system based on SAT scores. It's about the same idea as this guy is putting forth. Is his plan cunning? Yes. Is it legal? No.

Taking advantage of those who are unaware they are being taken advantage of is wrong. Using excuses like, "they don't care anyway," or "they should have known better," is passing judgements that you aren't qualified to pass because you are forcing your will, your greed on others.

In this case the ends don't justify the means.

I also like how the title of this thread included the word, "scam," something he labeled it himself, then finds problems with his "idea."

As a last note, I'd like to mention. Why is it that in America everyone is so greedy? Greed is the root of all of societies evil. Yet the United States seems to be over flowing with it. Why can't people take what is their's and leave what isn't? I'm not saying we all live in some hippie-happy society, but what's wrong with the US?

mystixman

Mar 5, 2004, 11:20 PM

As a last note, I'd like to mention. Why is it that in America everyone is so greedy? Greed is the root of all of societies evil. Yet the United States seems to be over flowing with it. Why can't people take what is their's and leave what isn't? I'm not saying we all live in some hippie-happy society, but what's wrong with the US?

Uhhh, I'd be doing this if I lived in some other country too. It's not necessarily that America is greedier or stupider then another country, it's just the people are louder about it.

abhishekit

Mar 6, 2004, 02:18 AM

So the government finds some extra money that your should have gotten back on your tax return, but since you didn't know about it and would never have claimed it, they simply don't tell you about it and keep it. Ok with you? I mean, it's not like you ever would know about it if they don't say anything...
First , I cant believe the thread had streched so far...anyways I wanna express my opinion to your answer...First..when you file tax return, you EXPECT/WANT money back..so if govt. conceals a possible money back its wrong..and when you buy pepsi,and you dont know anything about itunes,,u do not EXPECT/or can MAKE USE OF anything you get...
Hence the cap is gonna end up in trash..
I guess the main point here is..the people he is denying he chance of winning, would never appreciate winning, else they wont allow him to do so..

ethernet76

Mar 6, 2004, 04:35 AM

Uhhh, I'd be doing this if I lived in some other country too. It's not necessarily that America is greedier or stupider then another country, it's just the people are louder about it.

Then why is it that a larger population of our citizens are in jails than any other country, save Russia. Am I the only one that finds it ironic that we're the country with the most "freedoms", yet claim the second-highest imprisonment rate?

I hate the American population. People hate America for a reason too. Countries don't "hate our freedoms" as President AWOL implies. Koyto what? Iraq what? SUV what? "Well I get into an accident I'll be safer," American Soccermom said. Smart decisions all around.

Welcome to America. National motto: "I want." Home of the fattest people on the face of the earth. Would it kill you to use some moderation?

brianellisrules

Mar 7, 2004, 10:32 AM

what about the people who actually want to win?
I still want to know what he has to say about this....

russed

Mar 7, 2004, 10:47 AM

I still want to know what he has to say about this....

well surely if you were going to buy the drink and wanted to know of you had won, you would ask to see the bottle, because to want to win you have to know about or even care about the competition. by the sounds of what he said the people who are buying the drinks dont care about the competition and problably wouldnt know how to go about claiming their free song even if they won. so tell me, would it be better to see that free song thrown away by someone who doesnt care/know about it or see the prize actually be used.

i dont see why so many people are taking the moral high ground on this, "he is stealing" bla bla bla, who cares? you all have to be greatful that you can even use the itunes store, as that is more than we can do over here.

i'll finish my rant now saying i think it is time people stop whinging about this and move on, he may be doing wrong but you dont get anywhere in life being all nice and moral. i wouldnt even call it theft, he is using his initiative and so congratulations to him.

i'm expecting lots of nasty responses to this posting, i've made my point. it is not as if im allowing murder or rape and i never would.

New Guy

Mar 7, 2004, 09:50 PM

Scam

n : a fraudulent business scheme

Fraud

n. Deception deliberately practiced with a view to gaining an unlawful or unfair advantage; artifice by which the right or interest of another is injured; injurious stratagem; deceit; trick

I think people are forgetting that the purpose of this contest is to get people who don't use a mac, iPod, or iTunes to use one. By "scamming" all the winners you are preventing the proliferation of the platform.

More Mac users can only be a good thing.

agreenster

Mar 7, 2004, 10:57 PM

I still want to know what he has to say about this....

Yeah, me too. Because he should be at least telling them that they've won, because thats a great way to talk to them, get a date, promote iTunes, etc etc etc. All good things. This dude isnt thinkin straight.

brianellisrules

Mar 7, 2004, 11:03 PM

Yeah, me too. Because he should be at least telling them that they've won, because thats a great way to talk to them, get a date, promote iTunes, etc etc etc. All good things. This dude isnt thinkin straight.
I was referring to the guys and non-cosmetology girls who might actually be interested in winning a free song, but now have zero chance if they buy it from his stand or wherever he works. I know I'd be pissed if I walked up thinking, "oh, cool, an itunes pepsi. sweet, I hope I win a song!" only to find out later I actually had a 0% chance because this guy took them all for himself.

And like the other person said, the point of the contest is to spread the word about apple, ipod, itunes, etc and he's pushing that a few steps back.

revenuee

Mar 7, 2004, 11:08 PM

i say it everytime i see a thread like this started.

It's one thing to steal and cheat the system, but to go online and brag about is just stupid. Especially in a forum like this.

revenuee

Mar 7, 2004, 11:16 PM

Moxiemike

Mar 7, 2004, 11:17 PM

i say it everytime i see a thread like this started.

It's one thing to steal and cheat the system, but to go online and brag about is just stupid. Especially in a forum like this.

Exactly Rev.

Could Arn get his IP address, track it to his house, find out his name, locate where he goes to school, inform say, the FBI or whomever handles fraud cases and report him, showing a copy of this thread and any other related information we used to track him, like his IP address, etc etc?

I think that would be a useful thing to do to this little prick. Of course, seeing him when he's forty, lonely, fat from too many mcdonalds freebies he got from stealing from his job, balding, and typing on his sticky keyboard.... is almost justice enough. ;)

Instead of fraudulenting obtaining itunes songs...could I suggest a hobby? Maybe reading a book? Learning some photography? Painting? Sports? Getting a life in general? ;)

beefcake

Mar 7, 2004, 11:36 PM

Then why is it that a larger population of our citizens are in jails than any other country, save Russia. Am I the only one that finds it ironic that we're the country with the most "freedoms", yet claim the second-highest imprisonment rate?

I hate the American population. People hate America for a reason too. Countries don't "hate our freedoms" as President AWOL implies. Koyto what? Iraq what? SUV what? "Well I get into an accident I'll be safer," American Soccermom said. Smart decisions all around.

Welcome to America. National motto: "I want." Home of the fattest people on the face of the earth. Would it kill you to use some moderation?
Don't hate your own population. Americans have many faults, all of which are very public. Other countries have their issues too, but because one of America's faults is indifference towards the international community, we ignore them along with the good in a foreign population.

cr2sh

Mar 7, 2004, 11:58 PM

Nah, not really. These girls wouldn't even use the codes anyway!

what about the people who actually want to win?

exactly.

What about the legitimate buyers, who like apple and pepsi and are trying to win a free song but have no idea that their odds of winning are really zilch thanks to you...

You are stealing from them. And that's scummy.

Oh yeh.. and tjwett.. your posting technique is shameful.

mystixman

Mar 8, 2004, 12:19 AM

exactly.

What about the legitimate buyers, who like apple and pepsi and are trying to win a free song but have no idea that their odds of winning are really zilch thanks to you...

You are stealing from them. And that's scummy.

Oh yeh.. and tjwett.. your posting technique is shameful.

What legitimate buyers? I can 100% guarantee ( got it right that time ) that these codes would not be redeemed by ANY of the students that buy them. I think if all the opposition ( pretty much all of you ) saw the situation in real life you would see it is pretty harmless.

ethernet76

Mar 8, 2004, 12:21 AM

Don't hate your own population. Americans have many faults, all of which are very public. Other countries have their issues too, but because one of America's faults is indifference towards the international community, we ignore them along with the good in a foreign population.

Think more just indifference. Apparently the America population is ignorant. The sad part is they seem to brag about thier ignorance. You know I think I'd rather be French than American sometimes.

revenuee

Mar 8, 2004, 12:27 AM

What legitimate buyers? I can 100% guarantee ( got it right that time ) that these codes would not be redeemed by ANY of the students that buy them. I think if all the opposition ( pretty much all of you ) saw the situation in real life you would see it is pretty harmless.

if you know what bottles are winners, why don't you just buy them, that would probably piss off a lot less people.

i'm not judging you, i'd be a hypocrite if i did ... but at the same time, if i do something that i know would piss someone off, i don't go around telling everyone.

applebum

Mar 9, 2004, 12:30 AM

I offer them a "Garunteed Winner" Pepsi. Even if they didn't want a Pepsi, they will still buy one. All of these bottles are still warm ( I intentionally didn't refrigerate them ), so I also get them a cup with ice and pour the Pepsi in it. In this whole process I write down the code. They get their "winning" bottle, and I get the code. :D

Ok - since many of you apparently did not read the initial post, then notice the part I quoted above. His "scamees" are aware they have won - he made them aware. And wether they use a computer or not, I bet they know someone that does. Plus he is taking the winning numbers from the people that Apple is specifically trying to target right now - those that don't use the ITMS. When one of these "unaware" students go home and try to use their winning code, it will be no good. And who will these students blame - Apple. The part that bugs me is that there are so many other ethical options out there that would have accomplished the same thing - I mean at the very least, if they truly don't know a thing about computers, why not just ask them for the winning cap??? Could it be that he knows that some of them might actually use their winning caps and the "payout" would not be as good if he was actually completely honest??

OutThere

Mar 9, 2004, 11:34 AM

well surely if you were going to buy the drink and wanted to know of you had won, you would ask to see the bottle, because to want to win you have to know about or even care about the competition. by the sounds of what he said the people who are buying the drinks dont care about the competition and problably wouldnt know how to go about claiming their free song even if they won. so tell me, would it be better to see that free song thrown away by someone who doesnt care/know about it or see the prize actually be used.

i dont see why so many people are taking the moral high ground on this, "he is stealing" bla bla bla, who cares? you all have to be greatful that you can even use the itunes store, as that is more than we can do over here.

i'll finish my rant now saying i think it is time people stop whinging about this and move on, he may be doing wrong but you dont get anywhere in life being all nice and moral. i wouldnt even call it theft, he is using his initiative and so congratulations to him.

i'm expecting lots of nasty responses to this posting, i've made my point. it is not as if im allowing murder or rape and i never would.

I don't really want this to be a nasty response, but allow me to make an analogy here...You are walking down the hallway and you see someone toss out some money with a pile of rubbish. What do you do? Same kind of deal here, it kind of reflects your personality.

ingenious

Mar 9, 2004, 11:57 AM

who ... cares? seems pointless to take a moral highground on such an issue... My thought is usually, if you're clever enough to come up with it, more power to you...

paul

Ya, and you're the one that has the thing about equality in your signature! I agree: he should ask them if they want to keep the cap and get the song. If they want the song and don't know how to use iTunes, show them! It's not that hard! If they don't want the cap, then they can give it to them. It's not much harder than what he's already doing. Again, it's not like iTunes is that hard.

jelloshotsrule

Mar 9, 2004, 02:15 PM

Think more just indifference. Apparently the America population is ignorant. The sad part is they seem to brag about thier ignorance. You know I think I'd rather be French than American sometimes.

if it's any consolation, i too hate the american population. though as beefcake pointed out, i hate people in general. probably would find myself hating a high % elsewhere too... though perhaps not quite as high a %....

russed

Mar 9, 2004, 05:25 PM

I don't really want this to be a nasty response, but allow me to make an analogy here...You are walking down the hallway and you see someone toss out some money with a pile of rubbish. What do you do? Same kind of deal here, it kind of reflects your personality.

i would agree that it is holy wrong to take miney when you can clearly seen who has dropped it and i would always pick it up and run after the person that had dropped it to return it to them. but the case in question here is totally different and reading it would clarify this point.

the post is going too far now. i dont beleve this forum is here to discuss the ethics of using someones winning cap it is here to talk about apple, mac's and generally fun or amusing things. people should lighten up a little and worry about more important things.

mactastic

Mar 9, 2004, 09:41 PM

First , I cant believe the thread had streched so far...anyways I wanna express my opinion to your answer...First..when you file tax return, you EXPECT/WANT money back..so if govt. conceals a possible money back its wrong..and when you buy pepsi,and you dont know anything about itunes,,u do not EXPECT/or can MAKE USE OF anything you get...
Hence the cap is gonna end up in trash..
I guess the main point here is..the people he is denying he chance of winning, would never appreciate winning, else they wont allow him to do so..

Still don't make it right, now does it?

Just because you don't know someone is stealing from you doesn't mean it's ok to do. If it was, it wouldn't be illegal to embezzle the elderly. "Well, that old lady was never going to use those tools her husband used to use. She won't even miss them. They'd just wind up in the trash."

On a side note this is the reason most contests don't allow the employees handling the product to qualify as a winner.

Edot

Mar 9, 2004, 10:14 PM

I would guess that you do not have the right to resell Pepsi like you are doing. I would think that the consumer is entitled to the bottle if he or she is buying the product. Even if you were a legal reseller, I don't think you would have a say in who gets to keep the bottles. If what you are doing is perfectly ok legally, it shouldn't be. Why don't you just ask them if you can keep their cap instead of just stealing it. If they really don't want them like you are assuming then what would be the problem in just asking.