Apple Portable Video/Media Device?

[MacRumors]

This Sun-Times article (http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-home01.html) discusses what technologies to expect to hit it big in 2004.

The author speculates that Wide screen/HD TV, Portable Media centers, Home Media Centers, and PVRs will capture the limelight this year.

In discussing the prospect of Portable Media Centers ("iPod on Steroids"), the article states that another Microsoft-Apple battle may be coming, claiming that "Apple is testing a device in Silicon Valley".

Steve Jobs had discussed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040108191333.shtml) reasons why he doubted portable video players would approach the success of portable audio players. Of course, Jobs teases "Now, I'm not saying we're not working on something like that, Who knows what we've got in our labs?".

[robotrenegade]

Hook it up

[27407]

So.. Powerbook G5?

[PlaceofDis]

i dont know about a portable video player...it just doesnt work like music would....but a media center gizmo that works with your tv, stero, and computer all wirelessly now that could be something sweet that i wouldnt mind seeing come into fruitation.... :p

[MOM]

Why is this on page 1? I know Apple news has been slow lately, or is there something more behind this?

[DreaminDirector]

Every time I hear this so called "rumor" I get my hopes up. And every time I'm let down. It's like the boy who cried "video ipod" or "apple mobile phone".

I just dont really believe them anymore....

[xtekdiver]

Looks like this is going to be an interesting year for Apple. Elgato makes a nice PVR device, but the problem with MPEG2 encoding is that it does not support 16x9 HD. I want to be able to record National Geographic in true HD for example. Jobs has made the comment that the technology currently available is not good enough quality for Apple to work with; but that tells me that if they are developing something then it has to be much better than what is currently available. I want to be able to watch HD TV on my 23" Cinema Display. I have opted not to purchase a TV in the hopes that Apple will bridge the gap this year and offer a device that will let us do this.

As for a portable media player (ie. iTV), it is debatable how much demand there will be for such a device. Without downloadable movies, I am not sure Apple will jump on that bandwagon; but an iMovie store would be interesting and a nice complement to the iTunes store. But back to my original hope, downloading movies will only work if you can get them in with DVD quality and can watch and save them on your computer along with the movies you record from your TV.

Here's hoping the rumors are true.

[BornAgainMac]

I hope it is something like a Tivo but with Apple's ability to make it more mainstream. There still is a lot of people that don't know about products like Tivo or don't see the value in it. I am sure if Apple were to create a Tivo type device, it would be much better and get a lot of free press in the news. In 2 years, Apple would own that market.

[fixyourthinking]

i dont know about a portable video player...it just doesnt work like music would....but a media center gizmo that works with your tv, stero, and computer all wirelessly now that could be something sweet that i wouldnt mind seeing come into fruitation.... :p

If you go to Best Buy and play with an RCA Lyra you'd see how cool something like a video ipod (that also plays Mp3's) would be

I personally think that Apple selling movies - called the iMovie Store would be pretty cool - independant movie makers would also have a new area of distribution. The only problem would be preventing pornography and who is to decide what is and what isn't porn? This is where music has a slight advantage in distribution, you only can hear, not see explicit material.

[1macker1]

you'll probaby be able to afford a Dual G5 with a 23" display before you'll be able to buy a 'video' ipod from apple.:)

[Sol]

If Apple releases a portable video player then it would also provide the content for it. Seeing that DVD ripping is not an option, Apple could sell MP4s online. Video clips sold in the iTunes Music Store could be one possibility, free movie trailers another. However, the big sales would be in television series sold online. Television episodes would fit the travelling nature of a portable video player better than a film; they are shorter.

Short films and documentaries would also carve their niche online. You could ride the bus AND learn something. Such content is necessary to make portable video work as a complete solution. Due to the running time of this content, the file downloads would be short. This would certainly make portable video content a lot more viable than selling films online.

[Grimace]

an iMovie store would be neat, but really useless. Users would have to have serious high-speed connections. We're not talking about teenie-boppers downloading the latest 5MB Britney song, we're talking about DTS 6.1 encoded full length movies. How long would it take to download 4GB on a 56k modem??

[lajocaab]

The technology is available to provide consumers with a product like "iSlate". Of course only Apple could really do it right, although several other companies are attempting to create some variation of this device. Unfortunately many are too focused on video playback only, & not creating a true multi-function device that could be used at home, at the office, or on the road. This product would integrate well into the "Digital Lifestyle" philosophy & compliment existing Apple products.

It would provide a screen large enough to actually watch video & view photos, while still being small enough to be portable. It needs to be smaller than a notebook computer, but larger than a PDA. Granted, you can not put a device the size of a DVD case in your pocket, but something doesn't have to fit in a pocket to be portable. This device could be used in so many different situations that it would have broad appeal in the market. I only pray that Apple is working on such a device & will release it in 2004. They have an opportunity to impact the industry with the iSlate & iVideo media Store as much as the iPod & iTMS will.

iSlate

New Apple mini-tablet –> PMA (portable media appliance)

Designed not to be a creative device like a desktop or laptop, but rather a sophisticated display device that communicates seamlessly with other devices via Rendezvous & 802.11, BT, GPRS, FireWire, etc.


Device Size:
8” x 5.0” x .65” (±15oz)
± 1/2 size of a 17” PowerBook
± 2x size of a Palm T3 or an iPod
± size of a DVD movie case
small enough to hold with one hand by the bezel (.5” bezel on the sides)

Screen:
±8” LCD (16:9 ratio) -> 800 x 480 pixels minimum (1024 x 600 ideally!)
± 1/2 size of 17” PowerBook screen
± 2x size of a Palm T3 screen
able to display “640 x 480 material” & DVD (720x480) quality video natively

Battery:
6-9 hr. Li-Ion battery (or some new battery technology)

Storage:
1.8” 20GB or 40GB Toshiba hard drive (additional capacity can come from external devices)
128MB or 256MB RAM - fixed
CF slot (w/ adapter for SD, xD, Smart Media, Memory stick)

Processor & OS ??:
Motorola 800 MHz G4 mobile w/ Mac OS X lite or
Intel 400 MHz XScale PXA263 w/ Palm OS 6 or Mac OS Mobile?

Connectivity:
802.11 –> Desktop or Laptop, Stereo, Internet via Wi-Fi hotspots
Bluetooth –> Keyboard, Mouse, PDA, Wireless Headphones, Internet via GSM Phone
FireWire –> iPod, Computer, external Hard Drive, DVD/CD writer, Video Camera, iSight
USB 2.0 –> Printer, PDA, Digital Still Camera
mini-DVI w/adapter for:
-> ADC & VGA for larger monitor
-> DVI for video projector or HDTV
-> S-Video for video projector or TV
-> Composite for video projector or TV
Stereo mini out
Stereo mini in
Rendezvous for seamless connectivity to other devices

Input:
Inkwell via touch screen &/or stylus
Keyboard & mouse via Bluetooth or USB
Microphone
Remote control via Bluetooth

Applications:
inkwell, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, Safari, QuickTime, iSync, Rendezvous
Preview or Acrobat Reader, Mail, iCal, Address Book, Sherlock, iChat AV
Keynote, FileMaker, Quicken,

A/V Formats:
Pixlet, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, MPEG-1, AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, Audible, JPEG, TIFF, GIF

Accessories:
Charger, External Battery, Stand, clip for iSight, Portable folding BT keyboard, BT mouse
Headphone w/Microphone boom, quality stereo headphones

Price ??:
$699 to $899

Create a device that is bigger that the largest PDA or Archos type device, yet smaller than the average notebook or tablet computer. Imagine if you will, holding a device (about the size of a DVD case) away from you anywhere from 12" to 18". Obviously a 4" screen would be inadequate, but a 7" to 9" diagonal widescreen would be more than acceptable. It could still be small enough to fit in a stack of books, a briefcase, a large purse, of any number of other carrying cases. It would be something that could be viewed in an office, at home, in a coffee shop, on an airplane or train, or even in the backseat of a car.

The idea is not to see how much visual information one can cram into a small space (3" to 4" screens) or replace existing devices like the TV or Video Projector. The idea is to create a device that is a reasonable compromise between portability & "acceptable or pleasurable" viewing for multiple applications & that also complements existing devices.

Although a 4 lb, 12" notebook computer displays video beautifully (I use one everyday), it is too big for the situations I have described. Beyond the innumerable business applications it could fulfill, it could display video & photos on a screen that is much bigger than an Archos type device or PDA, & yet smaller than a notebook computer. It doesn’t need to carry everything all the time, so it doesn’t require a massive hard drive. The internal HD needs only to be large enough for the OS, applications & enough storage to carry material while you away from any connectivity to other devices or the internet.

From a strictly “video perspective”, a large part of its success would hinge upon Apple's ability to distribute video clips through an online store much like iTMS. This store could provide educational content, business content, news content, & entertainment content beyond just movies. To be truly successful, it must integrate into Apple's "Digital Lifestyle" strategy, & be truly portable (ubiquitous wireless connectivity & good battery life).

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi

how can people vote NOTHING positive or negative ?

Cheers

[w00master]

Here's my issue with Portable Video players. First off, I do think that they are "cool" in a gadgety sort of way. However, in a mostly car driven society, I can't see the long-term viability of portable video players. Sure, they're very cool, but I just can't see how or when the majority of users would ever use them.

Portable music players are great, because no matter where you are, you can use them with little to no distraction. In a car? Just plug it to your car stereo. Taking a walk in the park? Just put on some headphones. Etc. etc. But with portable vid players? You can't really do any of the above. I could see some viability with the business audience. They take a lot of business trips on planes, etc. But this is such a small audience, I just can't see it having any future legs. Thoughts?

w00master

[27407]

Here's my issue with Portable Video players. First off, I do think that they are "cool" in a gadgety sort of way. However, in a mostly car driven society, I can't see the long-term viability of portable video players. Sure, they're very cool, but I just can't see how or when the majority of users would ever use them.

Portable music players are great, because no matter where you are, you can use them with little to no distraction. In a car? Just plug it to your car stereo. Taking a walk in the park? Just put on some headphones. Etc. etc. But with portable vid players? You can't really do any of the above. I could see some viability with the business audience. They take a lot of business trips on planes, etc. But this is such a small audience, I just can't see it having any future legs. Thoughts?

w00master

Remember that while the US is a car driven society, many other places in the world are not.

[Dave the Great]

.. but the problem with MPEG2 encoding is that it does not support 16x9 HD. ...

Yes, it does. Look at DVHS, this is MPEG-2 HD (16x9).
Also, look at JVC's HD1 and HD10. This is also MPEG-2 HD (16x9).

[eclipse525]

It's just not going to happen.

Video is just not as universal as Music. In the sense of day to day. Also, video is alot more distracting than music.

Unless this little miracle iPod(A/V) unit can recieve satelitte feeds(directTV) but highly unlikely.



~

[Stolid]

Also: Look at the Game Boy's success. This could easily be a GB for "respectable adults" or people who just don't like playing games - nice way to pass the time where-ever, when-ever

[macdong]

well, some vehicles have DVD player in the back or even in the passenger side. it'll eventually be possible to plug a protable video player in and play the movies, just like how you can plug your iPod in and play music.

Here's my issue with Portable Video players. First off, I do think that they are "cool" in a gadgety sort of way. However, in a mostly car driven society, I can't see the long-term viability of portable video players. Sure, they're very cool, but I just can't see how or when the majority of users would ever use them.

Portable music players are great, because no matter where you are, you can use them with little to no distraction. In a car? Just plug it to your car stereo. Taking a walk in the park? Just put on some headphones. Etc. etc. But with portable vid players? You can't really do any of the above. I could see some viability with the business audience. They take a lot of business trips on planes, etc. But this is such a small audience, I just can't see it having any future legs. Thoughts?

w00master

[Wonder Boy]

[QUOTE=BornAgainMac]I hope it is something like a Tivo but with Apple's ability to make it more mainstream.QUOTE]

i don't know if i would describe 2% marketshare as mainstream.

[dongmin]

If you go to Best Buy and play with an RCA Lyra you'd see how cool something like a video ipod (that also plays Mp3's) would be The problem with these gadgets is that their usefulness wears off pretty fast after their original wow factor. These things are cool just for the sake of that they can do something. But is it usef? Is it something people will want to keep using?

For a portable video player to work, you need content to be readily available and easily accessible to the device. For example, no one is gonna bother ripping their dvds and copying it over to their device; the process is too cumbersome--for now. now, with the popularity to media center PCs, video content is becoming easier to collect. Apple needs to jump into this market with some killer technology. They can't let Microsoft dictate this emerging market.

My guess is that Apple is planning something big with phone/wireless networking and quicktime. Imagine being able to download to your iPod sports highlights, movie trailers, news flashes, etc. Apple needs to identify what kind of content works for this type of device and then promote a package that includes hardware, software, service, and content. The total package. And seemless integration with your Mac.

[Wonder Boy]

i almost never watch dvds in my house, im not about to spend 400+ so i can watch indiana jones on the way to class.

i say "bah" to you PMA

but at this rate, ill take anything apple leases. life in appleworld sucks right now and has for a long time. tomorrow will be the 2 month anniversary of mwsf, and all we have to show for is ilife o4 and (woo frickin hoo) ipod minis. yup those will increase marketshare.we are not amused.

[TBR]

an iMovie store would be neat, but really useless. Users would have to have serious high-speed connections. We're not talking about teenie-boppers downloading the latest 5MB Britney song, we're talking about DTS 6.1 encoded full length movies. How long would it take to download 4GB on a 56k modem??

But the iMovie store would be primerily to allow users of the "iVideo" to download the movies to play on that device. I wouldn't envision that this device would be playing such high quality video, I see it more as a VCD quality player, 320x240. This would allow video to be approx 10 meg a minute.

This would take approx 2hours or so for a 45min program on slow 1/2 meg broadband.

I think that this would be reasonable trade off of size of file and quality.

People wanting MEGA quality video arn't going to want to watch it on a tiny screen anyway and I woould see this product aimed at the casual user, the walkman of videowho would be more than happy with a 320x240 resolution.

[Wonder Boy]

Imagine being able to download to your iPod sports highlights, movie trailers, news flashes, etc. Apple needs to identify what kind of content works for this type of device and then promote a package that includes hardware, software, service, and content. The total package. And seemless integration with your Mac.

that sounds good but it has to have a phone intergrated. there is no way im paying 45$ a month for a cell phone and another 50$ to download sportscenter highlights.

[macdong]

perhaps that's where sony ericsson steps in... :)


that sounds good but it has to have a phone intergrated. there is no way im paying 45$ a month for a cell phone and another 50$ to download sportscenter highlights.

[macNoob]

Here's what I think apple has up their sleeve...

Assuming people even want a portable video player (which is debatable), the biggest problem is that of content. DVD ripping is difficult, both technically and politically for Apple, iTunes Movie Store still struggles with the bandwidth problem, and most other 'sources' are still illegal.

The answer is some type of Apple TiVo device which would sync up with your Apple vPod. Apple releases a PVR, and if it does well in the market, they have an installed base of content to work with. Assuming that the PVR would have more storage than the vPod, you could utilize smart playlists (ala iPod Mini) and carry a couple seasons of Seinfeld or Simpsons around in your pocket, for whenever you had a spare 20 minutes to waste.

Ideally, this vPod device would have a video out adapter so you could plop the vPod onto any TV and go to town.

macNoob

/*===================*/
...bulldozing everything down to make room for what was a byzantine a labyrinth a knotty mess of manifolding passageways a tangle of confusion where the walls made an asylum of baroque, like a joke...

[TBR]

Couldn't the vPod be an add on to the iPod?

The back of the iPod has nothing of any use on it, if this device was a screen with the nessicary gubins in it approx the size of an ipod that the ipod 'docks' into.

What you think?

[nagromme]

A couple facts:

1. Steve Jobs has refused to deny working on video devices, at least experimentally.

2. Apple has posted jobs FOR THE IPOD that require video compression experience.

3. My Pentax Optio camera is about the size of an iPod Mini and has TV-out for giving photo slideshows. Lots of cameras do--it's cheap and small to add. The tiny screen is not the only output possible.

4. Sony Glasstron glasses provide a virtual largish TV screen projected for only you to see. They cost starting around $250--but could be less with volume Sony never saw. http://www.vrealities.com/sony.html

5. Video need not be the MAIN purpose of a color-screen iPod to begin with. Photos could be the main new feature, with video support as a neat gimmick ready to grow into more one day.

[joemama]

Here's what I think apple has up their sleeve...

The answer is some type of Apple TiVo device which would sync up with your Apple vPod. Apple releases a PVR, and if it does well in the market, they have an installed base of content to work with. Assuming that the PVR would have more storage than the vPod, you could utilize smart playlists (ala iPod Mini) and carry a couple seasons of Seinfeld or Simpsons around in your pocket, for whenever you had a spare 20 minutes to waste.

Ideally, this vPod device would have a video out adapter so you could plop the vPod onto any TV and go to town.



That could be the start of something big. Who says a tivo has to be that big in size? What if there was a device that was 2-3 tmies the size of an ipod (or had a dock) that sits on top of your TV and functions exactly like a Tivo (maybe Apple liscences tivo's subcription service). Perhaps the device has 2 40 gig HD's for x amount of recording and a built in 4 x 3" LCD screen? You record just like a tivo (with a better Apple interface) and then when you want to watch on the go (for all of use commerters/travelers) you disconnect is and watch all of your favorite programs on the device's small screen!

Best part - plug it into ANY Mac via firewire and watch through quicktime! Boom, Apple has bridged the TV/Computer gap we've all been waiting for.

Even better part - has all the same functions as your iPod, so you can sync it with iTunes for your music.

Even better than that - Lazy? Wirelessly sync it with iTunes on your Mac while plugged into the tv. (for Couch potatoes...)

...I'd be all over this for $499.

[reyesmac]

I think that what Jobs fails to realize is that there is a whole generation of kids that grew up looking at a portable video device and loved it. It was called the Gameboy™. I think that a PVD with the ability to play music like the iPod would be as big of a success as the iPod. Even if it would not be with the mainstream, it would sell as much as the iPod just from people who own computers and want portability but dont need a laptop. This is a device I would buy in its first rev.

[Rocketman]

Jobs teases "Now, I'm not saying we're not working on something like that, Who knows what we've got in our labs?".

You do.

[ccuilla]

[QUOTE=BornAgainMac]I hope it is something like a Tivo but with Apple's ability to make it more mainstream.QUOTE]

i don't know if i would describe 2% marketshare as mainstream.

Yes, but 50-80% is, and that is what the iPod and iTMS have. Start thinking about "Apple", not just "Mac".

[paulbarton]

...then promote a package that includes hardware, software, service, and content. The total package. And seemless integration with your Mac.

then everyone outside the US would pay double for the hardware and not get the service or content. Great.

[iggyb]

Also: Look at the Game Boy's success. This could easily be a GB for "respectable adults" or people who just don't like playing games - nice way to pass the time where-ever, when-ever

There are people who don't like playing games? ;)

[1macker1]

Well you can get a portable DVD player for 300 bucks(7-10 inch screen), so i'm wondering what the price point would be.

[eclipse525]

Another idea for a video/color screen iPod(a/v) would be to have audiobooks with images. More of reference books with charts or images to discribe a specific entry. Another would be to download news content straight from Safari that contain the audio or video OR even just the text with images. Hmmmm.....


~e

[Paul_N]

Looks like this is going to be an interesting year for Apple. Elgato makes a nice PVR device, but the problem with MPEG2 encoding is that it does not support 16x9 HD.

Not to nitpick, but HDTV utilizes MPEG-2 for it's compression. The Elgato box just doesn't have a built in HDTV tuner, otherwise it would have no problems recording this content. In fact, it wouldn't even have to re-compress it, it would just store it on the local hard drive (or in a memory buffer, so that you could do the time-shifting).. I'm guessing that the next incarnation of the EyeTV 200 will have an HDTV tuner.

My point regarding the portable video player: How many people watch a quicktime clip in their finder, verses loading the QT application? On my CinemaHD, the finder preview would be about the size of a portable screen. There's no way I would want that.

People aren't going out and buying large 60" widescreen TVs for nothing. They want a big picture. Who wants to waste time on a 2" screen?

Besides, if I'm travelling, my powerbook already gives me a 15.2" widescreen 16x10 monitor, that plays back DVDs progressively. It has plenty of space, _and_ I can swap batteries.

... and I want to go down to a single battery device with a 2" screen, a small percentage of the space, why?

[Wonder Boy]

Yes, but 50-80% is, and that is what the iPod and iTMS have. Start thinking about "Apple", not just "Mac".

touche :)

[splashman]

Why is this on page 1? I know Apple news has been slow lately, or is there something more behind this?

I repeat your question, with a bewildered shake of my head. The Sun-Times article could technically be accurate, as Jobs himself has essentially admitted that Apple R&D has worked on such a device. But that's probably been true for years.

This is a Page 2 rumor at best.

[splashman]

I think that what Jobs fails to realize is that there is a whole generation of kids that grew up looking at a portable video device and loved it. It was called the Gameboy™. I think that a PVD with the ability to play music like the iPod would be as big of a success as the iPod. Even if it would not be with the mainstream, it would sell as much as the iPod just from people who own computers and want portability but dont need a laptop. This is a device I would buy in its first rev.

The Gameboy was not a "video device"; it sold because it was a portable gaming device. There still is no demand for a PVD, and that fact is not due to lack of appropriate and/or cheap hardware. Even for a geek like me, a PVD with holographic screen, HD resolution, 2 TB of storage and Dolby 5.1 would be worth $30, max.

[jtquick2001]

I want to watch tv shows but I always miss them. I would love to be able to watch them later on and maybe have the whole first season of a show. I think one of the rumors said that the new device would make an existing device better. I smell a smart tv device coming. :)

[billyboy]

A pod that could handle picture or movie files as conveniently as an iPod handles music would work to a point in the US, but to tie into Apple's need to do things properly, I reckon it would be better launched in certain parts of Asia where broadband is done properly.

The pod is a digital hub. Whatever the media in question, an Apple i, v or e pod holds the music or the movie files that you can take wherever to link into a dedicated media device.

For music, the files are small, easily and quickly downloadable on a bog standard connection. The iPod happens to be a great portable playing device, but plugged into a stereo system it is a hub, ie a top dog jukebox with up to 10000 songs to do all sorts with.



Primarily a movie media pod could be a smart ass storage device that plugged easily into a TV. Of course it would have a view finder, but so does a video cam but you dont think the view finder as the correct way to view images. You can watch on the move, but that is not the point and you acknowledge it would kill your battery.

To make Apple's vPod type gizmo a cut way above anything else in the video department, it would be filled with the movie content you have downloaded seamlessly from an Apple store. At this moment in technological time, that movie content in the US and most of Europe could conveniently be almost anything except a full blown DVD quality movie - tv shows, short clips of sports events, basically material that is from the short side of moving picture land. But in places like Korea where broadband is done properly ie minimum 2MB and up to 20MB connections for consumers! full length DVD quality movies could work.

So instead of taking a laptop, or DVD or CD around to friends, and gathering around a computer screen, which Steve Jobs thinks sucks the big one, you take your collection on your vPod and plug it into a TV, which is the, dare I say "natural way" of viewing images.

[Inspector Lee]

I'm not sure if I was linked to this article (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031127.html) a few weeks back on this site or what, but I believe this could possibly be the rumored device.

It is some type of tablet incorporating 802.15.3 technology for the wireless transfer of video to or from a television or cinema display. I don't know if this is possible or how it might affect iPod sales (if it can stream music also) so I figured I'd throw it out to the sharks to gnaw on.

Of course, if this product exists, it'll cost the farm.

[PBGPowerbook]

i don't know if i would describe 2% marketshare as mainstream.

Not to pick on you specifically, but the victimization constantly represented here is so ludicrous. Apple makes billions of dollars and sells huge numbers of products and employs a worldwide workforce. MAINSTREAM. Just because Mac users are particularly loyal (read "consistent") consumers of whatever Apple products that the majority doesn't use DOES NOT mean that you are being countercultural or something. It is not only laughable but also sort of unnerving to hear people say a corp is not mainstream when they have ads in the damn Super Bowl...pretty much the most "mainstream" venue in American culture.

As for the portable video issue: I agree with the car-based argument. There is not a single situation I can imagine where I would be out of my house, not have my pbook, and really want to watch a video. I don't think people will buy something like this (esp. at 6 or 8 hundred or whatever was imagined above) just for on the bus and airports. It would have to do more!

but at this rate, ill take anything apple [releases.]

way to be. everyone loves an easily amused consumer.

[Capt Underpants]

[QUOTE=BornAgainMac]I hope it is something like a Tivo but with Apple's ability to make it more mainstream.QUOTE]

i don't know if i would describe 2% marketshare as mainstream.

Look at the iPod's market share......

[Wonder Boy]

Not to pick on you specifically, but the victimization constantly represented here is so ludicrous. Apple makes billions of dollars and sells huge numbers of products and employs a worldwide workforce. MAINSTREAM. Just because Mac users are particularly loyal (read "consistent") consumers of whatever Apple products that the majority doesn't use DOES NOT mean that you are being countercultural or something. It is not only laughable but also sort of unnerving to hear people say a corp is not mainstream when they have ads in the damn Super Bowl...pretty much the most "mainstream" venue in American culture.

As for the portable video issue: I agree with the car-based argument. There is not a single situation I can imagine where I would be out of my house, not have my pbook, and really want to watch a video. I don't think people will buy something like this (esp. at 6 or 8 hundred or whatever was imagined above) just for on the bus and airports. It would have to do more!

you cant tell me that when you first bought a mac you thought it would be cool cause nobody else would have have one. i did. macs are not mainstream. the ipod is. but absolutly do not classify the mac platform (OS and everything else) as mainstream.linux is less mainstream.but mac as mainstream? be serious.

[Wonder Boy]

Look at the iPod's market share......

ya i did, big deal. its a product thats 2, almost 3 years old. its the best player out there. nice, congrats. but that is the only aspect of apple that is mainstream, or atleast accepted by the majority.

when i can search for a dvd at best buy kiosk on a mac, then i will consider apple mainstream. until then, they will still be apart of the counter culture (by my standards, of course.)

[PBGPowerbook]

Perhaps we are just disagreeing on the terms, not the facts.

Ask any person on the street if they've ever heard of Apple computer or the Macintosh.

Even though odds are they do not own a mac, they will have heard of this enormous electronics company who consistently places ads (for their computers and their music players) in tons of major magazines and television shows. This is what I call mainstream.

[Capt Underpants]

you cant tell me that when you first bought a mac you thought it would be cool cause nobody else would have have one. i did. macs are not mainstream. the ipod is. but absolutly do not classify the mac platform (OS and everything else) as mainstream.linux is less mainstream.but mac as mainstream? be serious.

I guess it all depends on what you believe the extent of mainstream is. I know that most people in my family and my friends have atleast have some amount of knowledge of Apple. I do tend to thing that apple is mainstream. They have an ever-growing number of stores, and their products are in CompUSAs and many other electronics stores. You can't go into Starbucks without seing one (well maybe sometimes, but alot of times there is a mac user there).

Apple is one company. There are hundreds of PC manufacturers in this world, yet only one Apple. Apple is different, yet all together mainstream at the same time. Kudos to them.

[Capt Underpants]

That could be the start of something big. Who says a tivo has to be that big in size? What if there was a device that was 2-3 tmies the size of an ipod (or had a dock) that sits on top of your TV and functions exactly like a Tivo (maybe Apple liscences tivo's subcription service). Perhaps the device has 2 40 gig HD's for x amount of recording and a built in 4 x 3" LCD screen? You record just like a tivo (with a better Apple interface) and then when you want to watch on the go (for all of use commerters/travelers) you disconnect is and watch all of your favorite programs on the device's small screen!

Best part - plug it into ANY Mac via firewire and watch through quicktime! Boom, Apple has bridged the TV/Computer gap we've all been waiting for.

Even better part - has all the same functions as your iPod, so you can sync it with iTunes for your music.

Even better than that - Lazy? Wirelessly sync it with iTunes on your Mac while plugged into the tv. (for Couch potatoes...)

...I'd be all over this for $499.

So what you're saying is you want an 80 GB portable audio/video iPod with a 4x3 screen and wireless syncing capabilities for the same price as a 40GB iPod? That's optimism ;)

[Wonder Boy]

apple is both mainstream and underground. i am both right and wrong. you are both right and wrong. truce?

[w00master]

Remember that while the US is a car driven society, many other places in the world are not.

I definitely will grant you that, but my question to you is that if a product doesn't survive in the U.S., what makes you think that it would make it out of the US?

All in all, hey... if it makes it, great. If not... well....

Personally, I just can't see Apple making a portable video product. Sure, there might be something being cooked up in Apple's R&D labs, but even Steve Jobs isn't too keen on this.

w00master

[Capt Underpants]

apple is both mainstream and underground. i am both right and wrong. you are both right and wrong. truce?
Agreed. :)