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View Full Version : Pay for e-mail? Gates says Yes


keysersoze
Mar 5, 2004, 11:54 AM
Any thoughts on Bill Gates and pay-for email idea as a way to reduce spam? The article is at:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/03/05/spam.charge.ap/index.html

wdlove
Mar 5, 2004, 12:23 PM
I smell another Bill Gates money maker. Those that have always want more. Just another tax increase idea from the PC crowd, hidden as a fee. I say a big Nooooooooo!

Hemingray
Mar 5, 2004, 12:52 PM
At perhaps a penny or less per item, e-mail postage wouldn't significantly dent the pocketbooks of people who send only a few messages a day.

So what about web sites that answer questions and feedback, like mine? So a user can send an email free (assumed) through an online feedback form, but it would cost me money/extra time computing a puzzle to answer them? I'd take down my contact form if that happened.

1macker1
Mar 5, 2004, 01:26 PM
I think it's a GREAT idea to fight spam. I like the idea of letting the user decided the cost of someone sending them a email. For friends and family it would be .01 cents, but the price would be set much higher for all those people(compaines) sending male inhancement emails.:)

Of course there is still much work to be done, should missing children emails be charged....NO. I'm sure they'll work out something. But this is a start.

sparkleytone
Mar 5, 2004, 01:28 PM
I have an idea.

1) Take something as prolific as email and begin charging for it.
2) Hide your moneygrubbing intentions behind 'security'
3) PROFIT!!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! No.

transistor
Mar 5, 2004, 01:37 PM
Why am I not surprised??

JesseJames
Mar 5, 2004, 01:48 PM
Bill, why don't you do everybody a favor and just go away? You have enough friggin' money. Just friggin' go away. Everyone abhors Microsofts "business" techniques. Everyone tolerates you. No one likes you. So just go the ***** away.

richland
Mar 5, 2004, 01:50 PM
I think it's a GREAT idea to fight spam. I like the idea of letting the user decided the cost of someone sending them a email. For friends and family it would be .01 cents, but the price would be set much higher for all those people(compaines) sending male inhancement emails.:)

Of course there is still much work to be done, should missing children emails be charged....NO. I'm sure they'll work out something. But this is a start.



Exactly. Anything to stop Spam.

Good idea that could be turned into an even better one.

MongoTheGeek
Mar 5, 2004, 02:12 PM
On today, the 10th birthday of spam (I got a copy dammit!) I came up with the solution. I need to work out some kinks but I know how to do it. :)

1macker1
Mar 5, 2004, 02:13 PM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates. Tisk Tisk Tisk.

kylos
Mar 5, 2004, 02:34 PM
How about a system in which you could be reimbursed at the discretion of the recipient. Also a handy way to tell the forwarders that they're just wasting money.

P.S. Seeing Bill's name attached immediately arouses suspicion, but if something can be pulled off without ms having any influence in the process, I wouldn't mind. But if ms is in charge then we're all in trouble.

eclipse525
Mar 5, 2004, 02:43 PM
so what's next.....different rate eMails

- next day eMails

- 2 day priority eMails

- 4-7 business day eMails

Trust me, if the government can't tax eMail, they'll try to outlaw it. If the government can't tax it, it's illegal. Gambling and Booze was illegal until the government found a way to make it legal and tax it. That's my rant. :D


~e

Raid
Mar 5, 2004, 02:53 PM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates. Tisk Tisk Tisk.

Sigh... The problem is good 'ol Billy is painting everyone with the same brush. He doesn't give a rats -@$$ about one cent an email because by the time it takes him to write one email he makes $10,000 in interest! How about charging people ten cents an email for each email over 100 that day and/or limit hotmail and yahoo 'free' mail accounts to 25 emails a day. That would really put a hurt on the spamers. Blanket policies aren't good ideas automatically, they usually are just lazy patch work solutions.

1macker1
Mar 5, 2004, 02:58 PM
I dont think that a man who gave his net worth to charity is worried about making money. The plan hasn't been set in stone on how much and how to charge people, heck it hasn't even been accepted, it's just a idea put out there by Gates to get the wheels rolling aganist spam.
Sigh... The problem is good 'ol Billy is painting everyone with the same brush. He doesn't give a rats -@$$ about one cent an email because by the time it takes him to write one email he makes $10,000 in interest! How about charging people ten cents an email for each email over 100 that day and/or limit hotmail and yahoo 'free' mail accounts to 25 emails a day. That would really put a hurt on the spamers. Blanket policies aren't good ideas automatically, they are just lazy patch work solutions.

Savage Henry
Mar 5, 2004, 03:02 PM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates. Tisk Tisk Tisk.

This is not a solution. It's so riddled with flaws and holes that it could only have been suggested by the Windows corporation. The man is finding it harder to keep up in the world which he helped create.

Leave it to Bulmer, he'll see us right! :D

1macker1
Mar 5, 2004, 03:12 PM
I'm for stopping SPAM, but i'm wondering why i dont get any. I've only received 2 spam emails in about a year and a half. I think people need to be more careful with giving out their email addy. I have 5 email accounts, 1 i used for my friends/family/work, all the others are for those sites that want a email addy before you can join and things like that. If

wdlove
Mar 5, 2004, 03:16 PM
I think it's a GREAT idea to fight spam. I like the idea of letting the user decided the cost of someone sending them a email. For friends and family it would be .01 cents, but the price would be set much higher for all those people(compaines) sending male inhancement emails.:)

Of course there is still much work to be done, should missing children emails be charged....NO. I'm sure they'll work out something. But this is a start.

It may start at .01 cents, but just like taxes it will continue to rise. They will find this and that to use the money. Increase it by making everyone feel guilty for not wanting to pay more.

1macker1
Mar 5, 2004, 03:34 PM
I think they should write in some law that would prohibit the increase. But i'm sure they won't.
It may start at .01 cents, but just like taxes it will continue to rise. They will find this and that to use the money. Increase it by making everyone feel guilty for not wanting to pay more.

Anyone know of a way that they think will stop spam.

agreenster
Mar 5, 2004, 03:36 PM
Been discussed

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=61546

keysersoze
Mar 5, 2004, 03:43 PM
Been discussed

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=61546

Thanks for the thread. I searched for this topic... not sure why this one did not come up. CNN just posted this today, so I guess Bill's thoughts are old hat.

Golem
Mar 5, 2004, 05:21 PM
I'm for stopping SPAM, but i'm wondering why i dont get any. I've only received 2 spam emails in about a year and a half. I think people need to be more careful with giving out their email addy. I have 5 email accounts, 1 i used for my friends/family/work, all the others are for those sites that want a email addy before you can join and things like that. If

I have been using junk addresses for the last 7-8 years for sites that have a possibility of generating spam. My first junk address I stopped using maybe 6 years ago due to a change of domain. Now I never used this address for stuff that was really likely to generate spam ie porn or giveaways but it was used for blizzard,bungie,game fan sites etc. About 6 months after I stopped using it i got my first spam... Wow spam... ahh if I only knew what was to come. For the next 3 years I was pretty good about clicking the little I dont want spam links and entering the email address every time I got spam. So by 3 years ago I was up to 1 spam a day and getting a little sick of it. At that stage i told Entourage to just trash everything sent to that address except for a couple of known sites.

Jump forward to a year ago and i started using mail and its junk mail feature. I was quite suprised to find that in the intervening 2 years the spam to that address had risen 5 emails a day. This for an address that hasnt been used once for 6 years beyond using it for dont send spam to this email address pages.

In the meantime my personal address which has been in used for 10+? years for real people still gets no spam.

XnavxeMiyyep
Mar 5, 2004, 06:01 PM
This is so incredibly stupid. If eMail began to cost money, I would not use it. The whole point of eMail is that it is quick, efficient, and free. Just watch where you give your eMail address out, and you will not get any spam. I haven't gotten any spam, even in my junk mail folder(nothing in it was ever spam) in over half a year, and I have a Hotmail account.

iindigo
Mar 5, 2004, 07:12 PM
:mad: :mad: A BIG FAT NO!!! :mad: :mad:

Yes, it would hurt spammers, but for people like me who send out close to 100 emails per day just for eBay, it would be really bad news. The puzzle idea is bad too, as that would make a normal hour's worth of emailing turn into 2 or 3 hours. Yuck.

And even if this tax was imposed, people would just move to IMing with AIM, MSN, etc. or create a new communication method.

BornAgainMac
Mar 5, 2004, 07:25 PM
Let me guess, we send our pennies to Microsoft, right?

ThomasJefferson
Mar 5, 2004, 08:34 PM
Has this man no shame?

howard
Mar 5, 2004, 09:14 PM
well i never get spam, so a big fat no

MongoTheGeek
Mar 5, 2004, 10:23 PM
Trust me, if the government can't tax eMail, they'll try to outlaw it. If the government can't tax it, it's illegal. Gambling and Booze was illegal until the government found a way to make it legal and tax it. That's my rant. :D


Booze was I think the first thing seriously taxed in the US. Look up the Whiskey Rebellion.

MongoTheGeek
Mar 5, 2004, 10:29 PM
We get spammed because Spam email is pushed. If email were pull then we wouldn't be spammable.

Imagine if you will an email program where you enter a list of people that you want to get email from. You go and you ping their server and if they have mail you retrieve it. When they want to send mail they put it on their server with a code saying that it is addressed to you.

Comments?

Powerbook G5
Mar 5, 2004, 11:22 PM
Should we pay Microsoft for the right to piss and breathe, too? Perhaps that will stop the spread of prostate and lung cancer somehow. After that we can just pay them for the digital rights management for having kids, too.

MacRumorSkeptic
Mar 6, 2004, 12:40 PM
His post office charging for snail mail anaology is flawed. Everyone gets tons o' junk mail through the regular postal service despite stamps. I know that junk is sent at a bulk rate, but once charging for email is introduced its only a matter of time until theres a bulk email rate to bring in more money. Whats wrong with email filters?

iindigo
Mar 6, 2004, 01:59 PM
yeah, what's wrong with filters? Mail.app's junk mail filters have caught every bit of my junk mail...

Zeke
Mar 6, 2004, 02:36 PM
What if the money for the email was actually given to the recipient (put into the recipient's email account). That way if spammers wanted to keep giving away money we'd be happier to get email. Then it would usually balance out if you send and receive about the same number of emails. Companies who have forms to respond to will get 1c from the incoming email and send out 1c for the response. Spammers who get no responses just make our accounts grow until they go out of business and give us some money for the pain in the butt they've been.

MongoTheGeek
Mar 6, 2004, 08:07 PM
That is one of the advantages of my system where you pull the email. They pay because it sits on their server.

Zeke
Mar 6, 2004, 08:47 PM
But if you pull it you have to say who you're pulling from...what if you're getting an email from someone you don't know that you should get. This way you get everything and everything balances out. The only downside I can see to my method is that people whose computers are infected by virii would have to spend a fortune on email. So maybe if the you have a password protected account off the computer that has to be approved before your email is sent. Then if the virus doesn't know the password it can't send the email. I still think it could work.

That is one of the advantages of my system where you pull the email. They pay because it sits on their server.

solvs
Mar 6, 2004, 09:33 PM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates. Tisk Tisk Tisk.

People don't like it because it's a bad idea. The fact that it's Bill Gates making the suggestion may not be irrelevant, but after everything he's pulled I think we have a right to be suspicious. Besides, read some of the old posts from when they changed iTools to .Mac. It doesn't matter who says it, even Steve Jobs. People do not want to pay for e-mail.

Well, people don't want to pay for anything, but you pay for internet access anyway. It should be included. And I don't know about you, but people snail mail me junk I don't want all the time. The fact that they have to pay for stamps doesn't seem to bother bulk mailers very much as far as I can tell.

phonemonkey
Mar 7, 2004, 05:19 AM
I am sure M$ and bill will propose sometime soon that they should be the ones to implement this plan and therefore will have a surcharge for the handling of this service. Then there will be no email support for apple and then bill gates will rule the world as planned

wdlove
Mar 7, 2004, 09:10 AM
I am sure M$ and bill will propose sometime soon that they should be the ones to implement this plan and therefore will have a surcharge for the handling of this service. Then there will be no email support for apple and then bill gates will rule the world as planned

If this happens to be a serious plan, I hope that everyone will wake up. This would be a plan that should be stopped. It would be a real control issue. :eek:

Powerbook G5
Mar 7, 2004, 09:39 AM
Bill can start a pay plan for the Windows platform while Apple and the opensource community can stay with free email and then we will see how many stay loyal to MS and how many realize they don't have to put up with this kind of ************. Remember the taxes that Britain used to levy against the colonists? Remember the reaction? It's something called the Boston Tea Party and a little something called the American Revolution. It didn't work for Britain and it wouldn't work for MS, either, but let them try it.

Fukui
Mar 7, 2004, 10:40 AM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates. Tisk Tisk Tisk.
How about criticizing his stupid ideas then?

Fukui
Mar 7, 2004, 10:42 AM
Well, people don't want to pay for anything, but you pay for internet access anyway. It should be included. And I don't know about you, but people snail mail me junk I don't want all the time. The fact that they have to pay for stamps doesn't seem to bother bulk mailers very much as far as I can tell.
Exactly, how many AOL CD's have you got in the mail lately?
Paying for E-mail WONT WORK.

Powerbook G5
Mar 7, 2004, 10:50 AM
You pay between $15-25 per month for AOL and it's the most spam infested e-mail service you can have. I may pay $70 a year for .Mac, but I get a whole lot more than just e-mail and I never once have gotten a single spam e-mail in the 7 months I have been subscribed to it. For those of us who either don't have spam, don't sign up for crap that sends spam, or those who have bought spam filter programs, we sure don't have any reason to pay for e-mail to reduce spam. Besides, who is this money being sent to? If it is anywhere near Redmond, I will just stick to IMs and my cellphone, unless Bill wants to charge us per IM, too. While we are at it, let's put a quarter slot in all new PCs so you have to pay a quarter everytime you restart or turn on your PC. They can have minions of Bill come weekly to empty it and collect on your toll.

Doctor Q
Mar 7, 2004, 11:13 AM
It's easy to stop spam. Just buy everything they try to sell you. Eventually, the people selling amazingly cheap mortgages and viagra and spy-on-your-spouse services and all the other other fine products and services will be so rich they will retire and stop sending you spam! :)

But seriously, this is not a get-richer-quick scheme by Microsoft. It is a legitimate suggestion for a way to combat spam, and there aren't many other plans with a chance of success.

I don't like the idea of having solve-a-math-puzzle be the way to pay postage, since it favors big-bucks businesses too much over regular folks. So hard cash is the way to buy e-mail postage. Note that there has to be a foolproof way to prove that a message has postage on it, which I assume would be with digital signatures from a postal authority you choose to trust.

Nobody would be forced to participate in such a program. If you want to accept e-mail with no postage, you can continue to do so. You determine your tolerance level. Many people would choose to allow incoming messages only if they had postage or were on a personal whitelist (a junk mail rule that says "accept mail from this particular source").

I suggest something else that would help too: Right now, people can put a "bookmark this page" button or a "make this your home page" button on a web page. With the same ease of use, I'd like to see web browsers and e-mail clients develop a feature where you could click "whitelist this e-mail address" or "whitelist this domain" to add a rule to the junk mail filter with a simple click and a confirmation dialog box. That way, when you sign up for yet another e-mail service or online forum, you would do something simple to exempt that site from being filtered by your junk mail filter and its "postage" setting.

AngryLawnGnome
Mar 7, 2004, 03:23 PM
Will someone tell Bill Gates that he is rich enough? :mad:

Sedulous
Mar 7, 2004, 04:58 PM
It isn't a question of "giving" out your address. There are companies whose sole business is finding addresses and selling them to spammers. Many university account addresses, for example, are open searchable lists. It just is a matter of time before your once "private" email is found, sold, and used.

windowsblowsass
Mar 7, 2004, 05:50 PM
I think it's a GREAT idea to fight spam. I like the idea of letting the user decided the cost of someone sending them a email. For friends and family it would be .01 cents, but the price would be set much higher for all those people(compaines) sending male inhancement emails.:)
Of course there is still much work to be done, should missing children emails be charged....NO. I'm sure they'll work out something. But this is a start.
a viable solution to spam is here www.cashette.com they have a list that you put your approved mailers on anyone not on that list is junk which after a few days is deleted if you see junk mail that is not you just click making them approved pretty well thought out

Les Kern
Mar 7, 2004, 05:52 PM
A lot of people bit*h and whine about spam, but when a good solution comes up, all they can do is criticize Billy Gates.

Maybe you're right. But I would submit the possibility that Bill want's to charge money so he can have the funds to develop a spam and virus-free environment, when in fact the virus issue is a result of him not taking care of the OS and Apps that allow that to happen.
I haven't really thought about it much... we DO pay 39 cents for regular mail... But the net is an open environment. We MUST strive to keep out the charges and therefore the CONTROL of it. Information is CRUCIAL in this day and age. Control of same will mean big companies deciding what we should see, like the neo-con outfit ClearChannel.

wdlove
Mar 7, 2004, 06:47 PM
Bill can start a pay plan for the Windows platform while Apple and the opensource community can stay with free email and then we will see how many stay loyal to MS and how many realize they don't have to put up with this kind of ************. Remember the taxes that Britain used to levy against the colonists? Remember the reaction? It's something called the Boston Tea Party and a little something called the American Revolution. It didn't work for Britain and it wouldn't work for MS, either, but let them try it.

I like your idea Powerbook G5. So if Apple maintained an open source community with free E.Mail then Apple's market share would increase? At some point we need to heed the call of the colonist's in Boston to say no to an ever increasing tax burden. It seems that every time you turn around that increase or charge a new fee for internet use, cell phone, and telephone.

Doctor Q
Mar 7, 2004, 07:35 PM
Legitimate businesses that send e-mail to their customers send more e-mail than individuals, so they would have to budget more for their e-stamps. But I think they might still favor the system, because businesses are currently paying their employees for the time it takes to sift spam out of their business e-mail inboxes, so they would benefit in the spam-free world too.

rjrufo
Mar 7, 2004, 09:26 PM
I think I have an alternative to email, and everyone here at MR uses it - FORUMS. We communicate every day through this forum, both publicly and privately by sending private messages to other members. A lot of people check their email online via some sort of web mail system, so what would be different than using a forum to communicate with friends and family?

Of course, there would have to be secure web sites with forum capabilities to block out unwanted visitors, but there are many free or low cost hosting companies that could provide such a service.

Another draw back would be for different groups of people, such as a persons family, friends, coworkers, and so on. A person would have to go to several sites to check for responses to thier posts and see what is new.

If it comes down to paying for email or using forums, I'd go with the forums.