Martha Stewart Guilty [Archive]

wdlove

Mar 5, 2004, 02:40 PM

Martha Stewart was convicted of obstruction of justice, conspiracy and lying to investigators about a December 2001 stock sale Friday, handing the government its biggest trading prosecution since Michael Milken was locked up in 1990 and opening the door to prison time for the famous entrepreneur.

Stewart, 62, was convicted on two counts each of conspiracy to obstruct justice and making false statements about her Dec. 27, 2001, sale of 3,928 shares of ImClone Systems, shares that cratered one day later on news of an FDA setback. Her trial focused public attention on the use of privileged information in stock trading and is the latest dose of justice in a long list of executive scandals that have plagued U.S. financial markets for three years.

Will be sentenced June 17th.

eyelikeart

Mar 5, 2004, 02:43 PM

Why the sad face? She broke the law & got caught.

What's worse about this case is the people who had their careers ruined because of her greedy needs.

Savage Henry

Mar 5, 2004, 02:45 PM

I'd be interested to see how much her celebrity status can buy her out of the potential 5 yr sentence on each count and the $1/4m fine.

But then shortly after that I'd probably lose that interest and go a read a book or something. :o

jxyama

Mar 5, 2004, 02:51 PM

1macker1

Mar 5, 2004, 02:54 PM

Damn, it's pretty bad having to go to jail as is, but to think that your a billionare that's going to jail for trying to save 22,000 bucks is just a terrible feeling. This is where greed will lead you.

I don't think she'll get the max sentence for all her charges. This should be a lesson learned. I for one thought she was going to get off.

eyelikeart

Mar 5, 2004, 02:57 PM

i hope this case won't be an exception in white collar criminals being brought to justice...

convicting enron/tyco/worldcom/etc/etc CEOs won't have as much publicity potential but those frauds did far more damages to many more people.

It may be the start of showing that high power people CAN be put to justice, just like anyone. I'm curious to see future legal cases against celebrities & such after this.

hugemullens

Mar 5, 2004, 03:04 PM

yay for posting in the right spot!!! :D Its going to be interesting to see how long she gets put away. It'll sound cold but i hope its a long time. I never want to have a job where i find out that all my pension, all my investments are gone because the higher ups wasted it. Hopefully this sends a message.

wdlove

Mar 5, 2004, 03:19 PM

Why the sad face? She broke the law & got caught.

What's worse about this case is the people who had their careers ruined because of her greedy needs.

It is sad the her life is ruined. The big problem is that others do similar things and get off. Two political figures come to mind.

rainman::|:|

Mar 5, 2004, 03:23 PM

take the moral high ground, but if you guys were in the same position, you'd probably dabble in insider trading too. It's not like it's a sinister thing to do, just unfair to other shareholders. I do feel for her, strangely. she's worked hard and been neurotic (and evil) to get what she wants, and now it all collapses. it's the end of an american icon, anyway...

paul

cr2sh

Mar 5, 2004, 03:28 PM

Don't know if you guys are seeing what I'm seeing.. but I thought I'd point it out.

They'll throw the book at her, she's going away for a while. She's the example that's being made.

Juventuz

Mar 5, 2004, 03:30 PM

eyelikeart

Mar 5, 2004, 03:50 PM

It is sad the her life is ruined. The big problem is that others do similar things and get off. Two political figures come to mind.

Yeah, but a line must get drawn somewhere. While I don't want to see her ruined, I think it's important to understand that these things happen, AND people can/will be punished. I think the reason it happens a lot more than we realize is because there's no enforcement where it's needed. This is also affected by the fact that a lot of it isn't seen.

Martha will be the precedent set for these types of cases involving celebrities & high profile figures. It sucks for her, but that's the price paid. She knew what she was doing was wrong, so I feel no sympathy for her.

jxyama

Mar 5, 2004, 03:58 PM

wdlove

Mar 5, 2004, 04:20 PM

1macker1

Mar 5, 2004, 04:32 PM

She isn't a danger to sociey physically, but she could ruin the life saving of a lot of people. See Enron for details. I think they should lock her up.
I don't know how everyone else feels. Martha has been found guilty of multiple felonies, her company, finances, and life are ruined. She should be fined. But I don't think it will really serve any purpose to put her into prison. I do think she should have to do a lot of community service. The reason is that she is not any danger to society.

mactastic

Mar 5, 2004, 05:09 PM

Funny that they nailed MS so fast yet haven't been able to indict Kenny boy yet. The Justice Department works in mysterious ways.

pooky

Mar 5, 2004, 05:30 PM

I don't know how everyone else feels. Martha has been found guilty of multiple felonies, her company, finances, and life are ruined. She should be fined. But I don't think it will really serve any purpose to put her into prison. I do think she should have to do a lot of community service. The reason is that she is not any danger to society.

So it's fair for the random thug who steals $50 from a 7-11 to go to jail, but not fair for someone who, through moral ambiguity, lies, and disregard for the well being of others steals several thousand dollars. Sounds like business as usual in the U.S. to me, but it makes me a tad ill.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 05:38 PM

Funny that they nailed MS so fast yet haven't been able to indict Kenny boy yet. The Justice Department works in mysterious ways.

His day, I think, will soon come. A hefty fine for Martha will please me personally, BUT If Martha gets a year or so in jail or is let off, Ken Lay, Ebbers, Skilling and that bunch should be hung, shot, given lethal injections and pissed on.*
Martha was a bit greedy and maybe had a sense of being above the law. The Big boys of Enron, Tyco and WorldCom DESTROYED lives... TENS of thousands lost ALL of their pension and 401(k) money which they will NEVER recover. Meanwhile, Ken Lay sits in his Florida mansion worth TEN times as much as he did just 3 short years ago. Put that ********* in jail NOW, and take every penny he has. Did you know that just one year before the "fallout" Ebbers was worth 3 million, and today he's worth 40 million? These folks brought harm to countless honest folk. They may or may not rot in hell, but they are evil; offering nothing to our society or culture... so we can make hell for them right here on Earth.

* Actually, I don't believe in the death penalty... but that's another forum!

Stelliform

Mar 5, 2004, 05:41 PM

Funny that they nailed MS so fast yet haven't been able to indict Kenny boy yet. The Justice Department works in mysterious ways.
Who is Kenny Boy?

Edit: Never mind, Someone posted it as I was reading and replying...

Awimoway

Mar 5, 2004, 05:42 PM

It always seems unfair when someone you know (personally or through mass media) who does not have the aura of a lawbreaker gets caught breaking laws. Denial is tempting. Blaming someone else, like the media or the government, is also tempting. I am sorry Martha's career is ruined, but she did do it to herself. She should have known better. Actually, she probably did know better. She should have done better.

Awimoway

Mar 5, 2004, 05:46 PM

Who is Kenny Boy?

Edit: Never mind, Someone posted it as I was reading and replying...

Kay Lay, Enron CEO

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 05:46 PM

So it's fair for the random thug who steals $50 from a 7-11 to go to jail, but not fair for someone who, through moral ambiguity, lies, and disregard for the well being of others steals several thousand dollars. Sounds like business as usual in the U.S. to me, but it makes me a tad ill.

Makes me ill too.
20% of the black males in California are in jail or on parole. Most because of the 3rd strike law. They may have smoked some weed: wham - 15 years.
White males are 7 times more likely to use drugs, but black males are 4 times more likely to go to prison.
Money and color are power. Until we change it and make the laws fair for all, we are nothing better than a fascist state run by aristocrats... like Bush. Like Ashcroft. Like Cheney.
This country makes me so damn mad. (If you're thinking of flaming me, saying something like "Then go live somewhere else", you obviously don't get it. Oh, and you can blow me while you're at it, idiot)

Can you tell I'm off my Paxil?! :)

mactastic

Mar 5, 2004, 05:47 PM

Who is Kenny Boy?

That term comes from the nickname GWB gave him. Yep they were close enough for the president to nickname the guy.

D*I*S_Frontman

Mar 5, 2004, 06:30 PM

When reading these posts, I would like to remind everyone that the reason Martha got slammed today was NOT for insider trading. It was for lying to investigators and conspiring to cover up the transaction. The whole story is full of interesting irony:

1) She gets the tip to sell the Imclone stock because they were not going to get approval for a new cancer drug. IRONY: They recently GOT the approval after all.

2) Martha sells the stock and saves about $46,000 by ditching it early. IRONY: She loses hundreds of millions, places her company in peril, and has to serve time in the pen. Had she cooperated, she would have been handled reasonably, maybe even walking if she agreed to rat out the REAL insider info guy. Even if she just shut her mouth and pleaded the 5th when questioned by the feds, the worst consequence she could have expected would be to pay the cash back with perhaps a slap-on-the-wrists fine to boot. No protracted legal drama (imagine the legal fees!), and zero jail time. Everyone forgets about it within three months and she keeps her company and her hundreds of millions. Now she wears the brand "convicted felon."

3) Martha used to be a stockbroker before becoming the "domestic diva." IRONY: She should have heeded her own instincts to pot petunias instead of horse-trading speculative stocks. Her intimate knowledge of the market and the operations of trading proved to be her undoing.

Don't feel too bad for ol' Martha. Her arrogance to actually lie and cover up something as minor as this stupid trade is why she is where she is. In the US, you do not have to help the government make their case against you--but you sure as Hades can't falsify records and lie to investigators and expect to get away with it. In her haughty pride she considered herself above the law. Big mistake.

coopdog

Mar 5, 2004, 07:17 PM

Anyone else would have been led away in handcuffs. Why not her? What a bitch. But really, jail for something like this is stupid. 5 ****ing years? Wouldn't paying back the money+fine+community service be a much better use of everyone's time?! I would love to see the pictures of MS cleaning up parks with her spring Europian cleaning broom made with African Swallow feathers in her k-Mart signature 350 stitch fine cotton jumpsuit. :p

Dont Hurt Me

Mar 5, 2004, 07:23 PM

Anyone else would have been led away in handcuffs. Why not her? What a bitch. But really, jail for something like this is stupid. 5 ****ing years? Wouldn't paying back the money+fine+community service be a much better use of everyone's time?! I would love to see the pictures of MS cleaning up parks with her spring Europian cleaning broom made with African Swallow feathers in her k-Mart signature 350 stitch fine cotton jumpsuit. :pwhy not her ? because we have 2 Americas, one for the Martha's , the OJs and Enron executives and then the other America that we are in. Im glad they got this Bitch but the problem is there are hundreds and even thousands we may never hear of. Make her pay a huge fine, and do community time like cleaning toilets in public restrooms. Jail isnt going to change her hard cold heart.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 07:25 PM

Anyone else would have been led away in handcuffs. Why not her? What a bitch. But really, jail for something like this is stupid. 5 ****ing years?:p

Nope. There are federal guidelines that the judge almost HAS to observe. 15-30 months is the case I believe. It could also be escalated if the governemt shows that her actions harmed other third parties.
And she may be a b**ch, but that's fine by me.
I'm just glad that she is most probably going to get serious time for this "petty" offense so when it come time for the big guns they are sentenced to natural life plus 1,000 years. I don't personally know anyone who lost money by her or Enron or whatever company, but one thing is certain: I wouldn't be sitting on my butt say "oh well, guess I have to work longer and try to save more" like some of the folks who WERE ripped off. I'd be in Florida, taking crap out of Lay's mansion to help refinance my losses by the low-life. (My wife is picking my Paxil up as I write!)

coopdog

Mar 5, 2004, 07:36 PM

Nope. There are federal guidelines that the judge almost HAS to observe. 15-30 months is the case I believe. It could also be escalated if the governemt shows that her actions harmed other third parties.
And she may be a b**ch, but that's fine by me.
I'm just glad that she is most probably going to get serious time for this "petty" offense so when it come time for the big guns they are sentenced to natural life plus 1,000 years. I don't personally know anyone who lost money by her or Enron or whatever company, but one thing is certain: I wouldn't be sitting on my butt say "oh well, guess I have to work longer and try to save more" like some of the folks who WERE ripped off. I'd be in Florida, taking crap out of Lay's mansion to help refinance my losses by the low-life. (My wife is picking my Paxil up as I write!)

Good point.

I like the Macrumors ad at the bottom of the page :) Link (http://www.bluedolphin.com/scart/default.vm?os=155753&imp=BPF155753&PRODID=2738&siteid=%2FhWxaUHg3LE-32v%2FHOIqNcqNycB7Q43XaQ)

Sun Baked

Mar 5, 2004, 07:54 PM

She could have gotten out of this with a slap on the wrist, a $150,000 fine, and without admitting guilt.

They wanted Sam, but she wanted to defend her friend and keep her image intact. :rolleyes:

evoluzione

Mar 5, 2004, 08:30 PM

coopdog

Mar 5, 2004, 08:48 PM

i know a few people that worked for her here in nyc, and they all say the same, basically that she's not a good person to work for. i'm not going to get into details, but the staff are treated like ******. she deserves everything she gets.

When I lived in CT people were always talking about what a bitch she was to everyone. Lots of stories about runins with her neighbors. She is evil, but not as evil as chimpokemon! ohhhhh! :p

ThomasJefferson

Mar 5, 2004, 08:51 PM

It will be interesting to see what she can do with the aluminum in her jail cell. Maybe, it will give us hints as to how we can accessorize our Alubooks.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:18 PM

It will be interesting to see what she can do with the aluminum in her jail cell.

Martha in the prison rec-room:
"Not many things go with Vertical stripes or an orange jumpsuit, but I'm going to show you how to accent your wardrobe using common jailcell accoutrements. It'll be a good thing!"

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:20 PM

She could have gotten out of this with a slap on the wrist, a $150,000 fine, and without admitting guilt.

True. Last summer, if she fessed up, we would be talking more about the evils of the Bush empire, and not the expected prison menu modifications from a lying homemaker.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:22 PM

When I lived in CT people were always talking about what a bitch she was to everyone. Lots of stories about runins with her neighbors.

That may be true, but I never hold that against anyone. It's a free country, and we have plenty of those. The problem is she lied, people were hurt, and now she must pay.

Dippo

Mar 5, 2004, 09:24 PM

Makes me ill too.
20% of the black males in California are in jail or on parole. Most because of the 3rd strike law. They may have smoked some weed: wham - 15 years.
White males are 70 times more likely to use drugs, but black males are 40 times more likely to got to prison.
Money and color are power. Until we change it and make the laws fair for all, we are nothing better than a fascist state run by aristocrats... like Bush. Like Ashcroft. Like Cheney.
This country makes me so damn mad. (If you're thinking of flaming me, saying something like "Then go live somewhere else", you obviously don't get it. Oh, and you can blow me while you're at it, idiot)

Can you tell I'm off my Paxil?! :)

It would be nice if you had some proof to back up those statistics.

But either way life is unfair, complaining about it won't help...

And Martha deserves all that is coming to her. Personally I was surprised that she got off, but I guess even all the money in the world can't always buy you freedom.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:24 PM

i know a few people that worked for her here in nyc, and they all say the same, basically that she's not a good person to work for. i'm not going to get into details, but the staff are treated like ******. she deserves everything she gets.

Again, two unrelated incidents. Folks shouldn't be prison fodder because one person or another doesn't like them. I've had plenty of horrible bosses, and maybe I've been seen as horrible. They can quit. Meanwhile, where the HELL is my 401 (k) money???

wdlove

Mar 5, 2004, 09:28 PM

why not her ? because we have 2 Americas, one for the Martha's , the OJs and Enron executives and then the other America that we are in. Im glad they got this Bitch but the problem is there are hundreds and even thousands we may never hear of. Make her pay a huge fine, and do community time like cleaning toilets in public restrooms. Jail isnt going to change her hard cold heart.

Doing community service might do her a world of good. To actually see how real Americans live. a refresher course.

The only way to change her cold heart is if she turns to God. Remember that God kept hardening the heart of Pharaoh King of Egypt, just to show that he was the creator.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:29 PM

Why not her ? because we have 2 Americas, one for the Martha's , the OJs and Enron executives and then the other America that we are in.
Yeah, baby!

Im glad they got this Bitch but the problem is there are hundreds and even thousands we may never hear of. Make her pay a huge fine, and do community time like cleaning toilets in public restrooms.
Nope, jail. Let's send a message, go after the Enron/WorldCom/Tyco guys and hammer them, change the system, and live happy. Why won't it happen? Don't get me started!

Jail isnt going to change her hard cold heart.
So what. She can keep her heart cold... in jail.

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:33 PM

I do think she should have to do a lot of community service. The reason is that she is not any danger to society.

Oh? Exactly how is stealing money from honest folk, trying to lie to the government, and trying to covering it all up, not a danger? So by this logic, Ken Lay should pick up trash by the side of the road for a few years. Meanwhile, how many people have commited suicide becasue of his disregard for social and cultural decency?
I'd rather it be "Hey Lay, lights out!" instead of "Uh, Mr. Lay, um, you missed a gum wrapper, uh, sir."

Les Kern

Mar 5, 2004, 09:44 PM

It would be nice if you had some proof to back up those statistics.
I heard today on NPR about the percentage of blacks in prison/parole in CA. Here's a PDF on 2003 stats on the disparity between blacks and whites.
[url]www.journeyforjustice.org/downloads/documents/PrisonsFactsheet.pdf[url]
Do a Google for more, there are LOTS of stats out there.
I'm a rather well off white male, and I still can't understand why blacks, Hispanics and other minorities are not burning down cities. I wouldn't blame them. Imagine an entire race being destroyed by our crappy legal system...
We need to change the system before it DOES happen.

DavisBAnimal

Mar 5, 2004, 09:56 PM

I heard today on NPR about the percentage of blacks in prison/parole in CA. Here's a PDF on 2003 stats on the disparity between blacks and whites.
[url]www.journeyforjustice.org/downloads/documents/PrisonsFactsheet.pdf[url]
Do a Google for more, there are LOTS of stats out there.
I'm a rather well off white male, and I still can't understand why blacks, Hispanics and other minorities are not burning down cities. I wouldn't blame them. Imagine an entire race being destroyed by our crappy legal system...
We need to change the system before it DOES happen.

All this talk about the racial disparities of our judicial system and culture is right on, but I can't help but feel as if Martha is in many ways a victim of the same type of crap. Stewart's only in this mess cause she's a successful, high-profile woman and we can't deal with that over here. Martha didn't steal money from anybody, nobody was hurt by her insider-trade, and she's not even been convicted of any of that! She just got caught cause she lied. Meanwhile, you have all these high-profile men around, squandering hundreds of millions of dollars, actually destroying people's livelihoods (please someone explain to me how Martha's relatively small insider trade destroyed anyone's livelihood) and they're impossible to prosecute.

Martha messed up, lied to investigators, and should be duly punished, in an ideal world. But I really have a big issue with her being the first to be convicted in these cases, when there are perhaps hundreds, if not thousands, of men right now guilty of so many more, so many worse white-collar crimes than anything she ever did. Give me Lay's head on a stick before you put Martha in jail, it's BS.

Davis

Makosuke

Mar 5, 2004, 10:03 PM

Anyone else would have been led away in handcuffs. Why not her? What a bitch. But really, jail for something like this is stupid. 5 ****ing years? Wouldn't paying back the money+fine+community service be a much better use of everyone's time?!Probably so, but if you threaten every other multi-millionaire corporate bigwig who lies to people investigating something they did wrong with a few years in a cement cage (as opposed to just some money that they'd never miss anyway), maybe it'll slow a couple of them down.

Although I agree that if Martha gets 5 years (heck, if she gets 5 months), then Ken Lay deserves a life sentence. Where's the justice?

I sort of think of it this way: If you're a rich, white collar criminal doing something very bad (stealing people's pension money, lying to investigators), then your fines will cover your little visit to the Big House, and you're liketly to be very, very scared of time in prison, away from your yacht and 2nd mansion.

If you're a murderer, heroin dealer/smuggler, or someone who comitted armed robbery, you're a danger to society, and it's worth the expense to keep you off the street for a while.

If you smashed a parking meter for $20 in change, then you were probably too dumb for a prison sentence to be a deterrant anyway, so a fine and/or community service seems like a lot cheaper of a proposition than sticking you in prison where you'll make friends with a lot of very bad people.

Les Kern

Mar 6, 2004, 12:01 AM

Probably so, but if you threaten every other multi-millionaire corporate bigwig who lies to people investigating something they did wrong with a few years in a cement cage (as opposed to just some money that they'd never miss anyway), maybe it'll slow a couple of them down.

Although I agree that if Martha gets 5 years (heck, if she gets 5 months), then Ken Lay deserves a life sentence. Where's the justice?

I sort of think of it this way: If you're a rich, white collar criminal doing something very bad (stealing people's pension money, lying to investigators), then your fines will cover your little visit to the Big House, and you're liketly to be very, very scared of time in prison, away from your yacht and 2nd mansion.

If you're a murderer, heroin dealer/smuggler, or someone who comitted armed robbery, you're a danger to society, and it's worth the expense to keep you off the street for a while.

If you smashed a parking meter for $20 in change, then you were probably too dumb for a prison sentence to be a deterrant anyway, so a fine and/or community service seems like a lot cheaper of a proposition than sticking you in prison where you'll make friends with a lot of very bad people.

I think your points are more than worth considering.... Maybe it's the lack of Paxil, but something in me says to start somewhere if we are ever to stop the rape of our securities and exchanges. I won't even mention in the same breath the disparity in sentencing, most natably between races... too big a subject. You do touch on the whole issue of "fairness", which is what we lack in spades.

Juventuz

Mar 6, 2004, 12:11 AM

Oh? Exactly how is stealing money from honest folk, trying to lie to the government, and trying to covering it all up, not a danger?

Who did Martha steal money from? Do you even know why charges were brought against her?

So by this logic, Ken Lay should pick up trash by the side of the road for a few years. Meanwhile, how many people have commited suicide becasue of his disregard for social and cultural decency?
I'd rather it be "Hey Lay, lights out!" instead of "Uh, Mr. Lay, um, you missed a gum wrapper, uh, sir."

Equating her to Ken Lay is equating apples to oranges.

Care to tell us how many people committed suiced because they lost their 401(k).

Juventuz

Mar 6, 2004, 12:14 AM

i wasn't exactly equating the two... i just grouped them under white collar crimes...

I wasn' referring to you when I said that.

Although there are others on this thread who do fall into the category.

topicolo

Mar 6, 2004, 12:33 AM

I get a kick out of how many people equate this to the Enron or WorldCom scanddals. They're comparing apples to oranges.

Martha got caught trying to save some money. This stuff happens ALL the time and people get away with it. Martha was a high profile case and that's why they went after her the way they did. This is a case of them specifically going after her because she's famous. If were some other person they would have faced a steep fine, and MAYBE some probation. Nothing more.

I see your line of reasoning and Martha's crime IS on a much smaller scale than Bernie Ebbers or Ken Lay's, but that doesn't excuse her from the fact that she did commit insider trading. Sure, she sold early, but that means that someone else paid for those shares and lost a good chunk of their money afterwards. In effect, she stole money (about $54,000) which she shouldn't have been entitled to.

If Martha just admitted that she made a mistake, she would've been given a slap on the wrist and not all of this junk. I'm just happy I made a profit by selling ahead of the guilty announcement :)

The moral of story is that you can profit from the misery of others :D

Les Kern

Mar 6, 2004, 11:45 AM

Who did Martha steal money from? Do you even know why charges were brought against her?
Though your tone sounds a bit hostile, here goes: Of course I know why charges were brought. Lies to the SEC and other bodies, not insider trading. And if the government wishes to persue it, they can show that her actions harmed other third parties that did not have the info, those that were damaged with MSL Omnipeda stock because in her position people trusted her. Did you know after her denying,denying,denying, her MSL stock went up? Now, after she was convicted, it tanked. So people were harmed by her obvious lies, and had actual loses becasue of it. They say the govt. may not do it, since most agree that 1-2 in jail is enough.

Equating her to Ken Lay is equating apples to oranges.
No it's not... Lay is just a much bigger orange. No, Martha is an orange, Lay is an entire grove.

Care to tell us how many people committed suiced because they lost their 401(k)
Actually I was asking that, not saying there were/are any. Might be an interesting search

Sun Baked

Mar 6, 2004, 11:53 AM

The charges

Martha Stewart was convicted of:

• Conspiring with Peter E. Bacanovic to make false statements, obstruct justice and commit perjury in the case.
• Making false statements in two interviews with federal investigators, including saying she had a prior arrangement with ex-stockbroker Bacanovic to sell her ImClone Systems Inc. stock when it hit $60 a share, and saying she did not recall getting a tip that ImClone founder Samuel D. Waksal was selling shares.
• Obstructing justice by trying to hamper the investigation into her stock sale.

Peter E. Bacanovic was convicted of:

• Conspiring with Stewart to make false statements, obstruct justice and commit perjury.
• Making false statements, including that he and Stewart had a prior arrangement to sell her stock at $60.
• Perjuring himself by lying to investigators about Stewart's ImClone sale.
• Obstructing justice by trying to hamper the investigation of Stewart's stock sale.

The maximum penalty for each count is five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. But under federal sentencing guidelines, each defendant probably would serve considerably less time.

Los Angeles TimesAll the fed wanted for Martha to do when this started was put a noose around Sammy and Petey's necks -- she would have skated with a slap on the wrist and the normal give back the ill gotten gains and a 3x fine.

But Martha knew what she was doing, she used to be a stock broker.

What she did was just as bad as a retired IRS agent cheating on their taxes.

Of course there aren't very many billionaire retired IRS agents around who can cheat on their taxes, lie about it to the feds and public, and hamper the tax fraud investigation. ;)

mactastic

Mar 6, 2004, 11:54 AM

The only way to change her cold heart is if she turns to God.

That's just one way. There are others....
:)

windowsblowsass

Mar 7, 2004, 05:46 PM

Neserk

Mar 7, 2004, 06:16 PM

Wouldn't society be better served if she was required to do community service for 5 years?

She did not embezzle the money and I'm personally not sure how they proved beyond a doubt she was guilty.

Neserk

Mar 7, 2004, 06:20 PM

Martha was a bit greedy and maybe had a sense of being above the law. The Big boys of Enron, Tyco and WorldCom DESTROYED lives... TENS of thousands lost ALL of their pension and 401(k) money which they will NEVER recover. Meanwhile, Ken Lay sits in his Florida mansion worth TEN times as much as he did just 3 short years ago. Put that ********* in jail NOW, and take every penny he has. Did you know that just one year before the "fallout" Ebbers was worth 3 million, and today he's worth 40 million? These folks brought harm to countless honest folk. They may or may not rot in hell, but they are evil; offering nothing to our society or culture... so we can make hell for them right here on Earth.

Thank you! How on earth people could compare Enron to this is beyond me!

Savage Henry

Jul 16, 2004, 04:23 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3900401.stm

5 months for perjury ... not bad if you can (afford to) get it !

Well at least she didn't get away with it.

Chip NoVaMac

Jul 17, 2004, 06:57 AM

And her attitude. Really shows that she feels she is above the law IMO.

blue&whiteman

Jul 17, 2004, 07:08 AM

i'm glad martha got busted. people like her don't deserve fame and fortune. all she deserves is jail and I hope its for a long time. she's a total scumbag yuppie conformist and stands for everything that is wrong in the world.

Chip NoVaMac

Jul 17, 2004, 07:35 AM

Just read that she is comparing herself to Mandela. Has she lost it?

Chip NoVaMac

Jul 17, 2004, 07:54 AM

Martha's five months in prison will do nothing to change her heart. Forcing her to do 5 years community service (not at the seniors center in Greenwich, CT; but in the hard hit areas of New Haven and Bridgeport) may have an impact on her thinking.

King Cobra

Jul 17, 2004, 09:36 AM

Hey, I heard that after 5 months, there will be a new channel opening up, called: Food for Felons.

Far-fetched, I suppose, but that's my comical relief for the moment.

mactastic

Jul 17, 2004, 09:45 AM

Savage Henry

Jul 17, 2004, 01:27 PM

5 months in prison doesn't seem like too harsh of a sentence for what she did. I'd like to see more people convicted of insider trading. Martha is just one of many, many people who trade on 'tips' that they wouldn't have if they were members of the general public....

5 months will mean out in three, and I don't see that as being much of a deterrant for people who want to break rules for the sole purpose of wanting to have more money.

And what did she say to camera outside the courtroom after the sentence was issued? : "Please support us by continuing to buy our magazines and products...."

Man, that kinda attitude makes me sick. If she checks her bank balance she may find that she's not so short of money that she has to beg on the steps of a court.

mactastic

Jul 17, 2004, 01:42 PM

I hear 5 months in the federal system means 5 months. No time off for good behavior or decorating skills. :D

Savage Henry

Jul 17, 2004, 02:03 PM

I hear 5 months in the federal system means 5 months. No time off for good behavior or decorating skills. :D

I getcha. This side of the pond notoriety and fame seems to give leniency to sentences.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2337341.stm

amnesiac1984

Jul 17, 2004, 08:10 PM

also, so many on the forum seem to think this same dead soul conformist way. i'm sure you will all vote for bush and support the film "micheal moore hates america".

AS opposed to actually supporting that stupid fat man of a michael moore who plays on our emotions for money, yeah cos that wouldn't be conformist either would it!

Don't get me wrong, I hate bush as much as the next intelligent and evolved human but that guy makes me sick sometimes. The sickest thing of it all is that I actually enjoy his films, and it makes me really angry that I just can't trust him, he's really got some good things to say but he's so full of crap I want to hit him!

Just out of curiostiy is conformist your word of the day?

Neserk

Jul 17, 2004, 08:34 PM

Just read that she is comparing herself to Mandela.

LOL... Apparently she either has lost it or she really as bitchy as they say she is ;)

Neserk

Jul 17, 2004, 08:37 PM

ad feminems.

.

Deifinition? I looked it up (Good student that I am) but the www.m-w.com doesn't have latin or it is spelled incorrectly :D

skunk

Jul 18, 2004, 03:27 AM

Deifinition? I looked it up (Good student that I am) but the www.m-w.com doesn't have latin or it is spelled incorrectly :D
Female version of ad hominem = personal attack. ;)

Actually, you're right: it should be ad feminam! It won't be in the dictionary as I just made it up... :rolleyes:

rastafari

Jul 18, 2004, 07:00 AM

totally off topic (sorry) but I find those big green smiles scary looking. scary as in ugly. is there any way I can set my browser to not show those?

skunk

Jul 18, 2004, 07:02 AM

totally off topic (sorry) but I find those big green smiles scary looking. scary as in ugly. is there any way I can set my browser to not show those?
Wear coloured glasses. :D :D :D

Neserk

Jul 18, 2004, 08:35 AM

Female version of ad hominem = personal attack. ;)

Actually, you're right: it should be ad feminam! It won't be in the dictionary as I just made it up... :rolleyes:

That is what my husband told me (he is into word origins, etc.) That is what I thought it meant (context and all) but one never knows ;)

skunk

Jul 18, 2004, 09:15 AM

That is what my husband told me (he is into word origins, etc.) That is what I thought it meant (context and all) but one never knows ;)
Looks like your nemesis has been banned, anyway ;)

rastafari

Jul 18, 2004, 10:31 AM

Looks like your nemesis has been banned, anyway ;)

A few thoughts:

I know blue&whiteman was a bit out of line but was it really a ban worthy thing he did? Granted he seemed to be attacking Neserk far too much. I do not even understand why there is a political forum on a mac site. Far too much of life revolves around these petty things. The last american election should show us that it doesn't even matter how you vote. The one the powers that be want in is the one that gets in regardless of anything.

skunk

Jul 18, 2004, 10:41 AM

A few thoughts:

I know blue&whiteman was a bit out of line but was it really a ban worthy thing he did? Granted he seemed to be attacking Neserk far too much. I do not even understand why there is a political forum on a mac site. Far too much of life revolves around these petty things. The last american election should show us that it doesn't even matter how you vote. The one the powers that be want in is the one that gets in regardless of anything.
There's a political forum here because we post political stuff. Political debate requires some civility. B&W was extremely uncivil, and it's not the first time. Ergo banned.

mactastic

Jul 18, 2004, 11:13 AM

There's a political forum here because we post political stuff. Political debate requires some civility. B&W was extremely uncivil, and it's not the first time. Ergo banned.

But wait, I'm confused. Wasn't he on the left side of things? And we all know it's not incivility that gets you banned, it's right wing thought. Conform or get out, that's the point of this forum.

Or maybe it's true that theliberalmedia isn't as liberal as people would have us believe, and theliberalmods aren't as unfair as people say... :p

rastafari

Jul 18, 2004, 11:49 AM

Sayhey

Jul 18, 2004, 12:11 PM

But wait, I'm confused. Wasn't he on the left side of things? And we all know it's not incivility that gets you banned, it's right wing thought. Conform or get out, that's the point of this forum.

Or maybe it's true that theliberalmedia isn't as liberal as people would have us believe, and theliberalmods aren't as unfair as people say... :p

Diamond geezer was banned once as well (in his Pinto days.) No one could confuse our New Zealand friend with any conservative. There are other examples of lefties and liberals being banned, but few on the conservative side take note of them in their cries of one sidedness. I hope B&W is on a limited time out and will join us once again with a more civil approach.

mactastic

Jul 18, 2004, 12:30 PM

His buddhism needs some practice I'd say...

skunk

Jul 18, 2004, 07:27 PM

Well, he's got time for a quick refresher course now, hasn't he? ;)

rastafari

Jul 19, 2004, 05:17 AM

But wait, I'm confused. Wasn't he on the left side of things? And we all know it's not incivility that gets you banned, it's right wing thought. Conform or get out, that's the point of this forum.

Or maybe it's true that theliberalmedia isn't as liberal as people would have us believe, and theliberalmods aren't as unfair as people say... :p

I think its funny that as soon as mactastic posted this the posts slowed right down. truth hurt? b&w didn't conform so he was booted out. I have read many of his posts and found him to mostly be a good kind hearted human. he just had a lot of hatred for neserk it seems. anyone know why? he didn't seem like the kind of guy that hates for no reason.

Neserk

Jul 19, 2004, 07:55 PM

I hope B&W is on a limited time out and will join us once again with a more civil approach.

I'm guessing no. It appears as though he broke the rules and has his second SN banned, which I assume means his IP has been banned, now.

Neserk

Jul 19, 2004, 07:59 PM

BAck to the topic at hand:

I think Community Service would be better.

kaline

Jul 19, 2004, 09:16 PM

BAck to the topic at hand:

I think Community Service would be better.

She broke the law and should go to jail. Period.

Neserk

Jul 19, 2004, 09:46 PM

I bought my first Martha Stewart Living Magazine this past spring! Pretty cool. (Don't mind me, just changing my post while trying to stay on topic, sort of.)

AhmedFaisal

Sep 8, 2004, 09:23 PM

Should Martha be punished, yep, but when I look at the fact that the Enron guys (Bush Buddies) and the Tyco guy (Bush Buddy) are basically getting off free I wonder what happened to keeping things in proportion? But I guess it goes along the line of "Kill a guy, and you ride the lightning, kill thousands, and they give you the Nobel Peace Prize". That mixed with a genuine hatred of the conservative establishment against selfmade women and the need for distraction from all the stink coming out of the White House it all figures...
Yuck!
Cheers,

Ahmed