HELP! Dual G4 dies mysteriously, now it won't boot

[Mike Teezie]

I was yapping on iChat with a friend and reading this very board on my PM Dual G4 about an hour ago. I went to the kitchen to grab a soda, came back, and the cursor was frozen, no programs or keystokes would respond, so I turned the computer off and tried to reboot. Now, it tunrs on, I get the white/grey APple screen withthe little spinning circle, which it does for about three-four minutes until a "no" sign replaces the apple.

I tried to boot from my Panter disc, to no avail. It just does the same thing. It doesn't sound like the CD in the drive is even spinning.

I'm going over to search the Apple page for answers, but its a terribly slow and painful experience trying to do it on my girlfriend's ancient PC. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Dont Hurt Me]

remove anything new, peripherals,firewire drives,pci cards,new memory and try again. Have any thunderstorms recently?

[Vlade]

I was yapping on iChat with a friend and reading this very board on my PM Dual G4 about an hour ago. I went to the kitchen to grab a soda, came back, and the cursor was frozen, no programs or keystokes would respond, so I turned the computer off and tried to reboot. Now, it tunrs on, I get the white/grey APple screen withthe little spinning circle, which it does for about three-four minutes until a "no" sign replaces the apple.

I tried to boot from my Panter disc, to no avail. It just does the same thing. It doesn't sound like the CD in the drive is even spinning.

I'm going over to search the Apple page for answers, but its a terribly slow and painful experience trying to do it on my girlfriend's ancient PC. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

One time my G4 froze while shutting down (I gave it like 3 mins and it was stuck), and when it tried to start up it took forever, try giving it like 10 minutes to start up.

[Mike Teezie]

I removed everything - the only thing I left plugged in was the mouse and keyboard.

I let it run for about 10 minutes, but the circle keeps spinning under the grey "NO" sign.

When I turn the computer on, should my caps lock or num lock keys light up when pressed? Becasue they won't now, and Im thinking that might be the reason my computer wont boot from CD.

Man, I really hope this is nothing serious, I'm starting to get worried. It's so strange that it just locked up like that under no real strain at all, just iChat and Safari were open. And now, it won't get past the grey screen.

[Mike Teezie]

I tried resetting the PRAM, but nothing changed.

I really feel like the keyboard isnt working....

[Dont Hurt Me]

Have you unplugged your mouse and keyboard and try a reboot?

[mklos]

I removed everything - the only thing I left plugged in was the mouse and keyboard.

I let it run for about 10 minutes, but the circle keeps spinning under the grey "NO" sign.

When I turn the computer on, should my caps lock or num lock keys light up when pressed? Becasue they won't now, and Im thinking that might be the reason my computer wont boot from CD.

Man, I really hope this is nothing serious, I'm starting to get worried. It's so strange that it just locked up like that under no real strain at all, just iChat and Safari were open. And now, it won't get past the grey screen.

If everything was running fine and then all of a sudden it crashes for reason and then won't boot up, then it sounds to me like something internally failed. I would say its probably something on the Logicboard since it won't boot from either the HD or the Optical drive and everything was running just fine a couple of minutes beforehand.

You could of had a RAM DIMM go bad on you as well. Try booting with only 1 stick of RAM in there. If no luck, then take that one out and try the other stick if you have one. Although I'm sure if that would keep it from booting, but its worth a try.

If that doesn't work then it may be time to give Apple a call. Hopefully you have AppleCare.

[mklos]

Do you have another keyboard you can try, or know of a friend with a USB keyboard? Any USB keyboard should work just fine though you may not have an Apple key if you use a PC keyboard.

[Mike Teezie]

The keyboard seems to be working, because I can reset the PRAM and get the second startup tone. But then, it won't boot from CD.

Isn't there a reset switch on the Logic Board?

And no, I don't have Applecare. Can I still call Apple tech support?

[JesseJames]

You have to bolt up from your chair howling at the top of your lungs and tear your shirt off. Then hop around the room like a crazed rabbit.




I'm sorry. I can't help myself. :D

[Mike Teezie]

Since I'm not on Apple care - if I have to get the Logic board replaced, about what will that cost?

Oh yeah - is there anyway the hard drive could have failed, and that's why I'm getting the Prohibitory sign at startup?

[King Cobra]

Logic board replacements can be $800.

Post your concerns over at www.thetechpub.com/phpBB2 and state:

-->Your computer, with OS version number (10.3.2, for instance), amount of memory, and hard drive space
-->Exact to the point, what you were doing before the issue occured (browsing, stepping away from computer)
-->The issue itself in as much detail as possible (color, size, and location of the "NO" etc.)
-->EVERYTHING you've tried to do to get around the issue
-->Any extra information (i.e. have you installed 3rd party RAM, or a new Hard Drive, or a video card...)

The guy running the site is Adam (a.k.a. Akira), and, given his status as the most informed technition of all the people he works around, he should be able to assist you.

[JesseJames]

Hold on chief. Do you have any disk utility sofware? Like Diskwarrior or Techtool Pro 4? I heard those software can get your ass out of a sling.
Don't get Nortons Utilities. It sucks.

[Horrortaxi]

The keyboard seems to be working, because I can reset the PRAM and get the second startup tone. But then, it won't boot from CD.

Isn't there a reset switch on the Logic Board?

And no, I don't have Applecare. Can I still call Apple tech support?

What about the 3rd startup tone? Or 4th? Have you reset the firmware? These things will cure a lot of problems--can't hurt to try here. Yes, there is a reset switch on the logic board. Press it once and once only. You can still call AppleCare, but they will charge you.

[Mike Teezie]

What about the 3rd startup tone? Or 4th? Have you reset the firmware? These things will cure a lot of problems--can't hurt to try here. Yes, there is a reset switch on the logic board. Press it once and once only. You can still call AppleCare, but they will charge you.

I have only gotten two startup tones - only after resetting PRAM at the startup screen.

How do I reset the firmware?

Thank you all SO much for helping me, seriously!

[MacRAND]

I have only gotten two startup tones - only after resetting PRAM at the startup screen.Mike,
1. Unplug it and leave it alone for several minutes. Then plug it in and RESTART first without the CD and then with, if that does not work.
2. Where is the nearest Apple Store? Instead of talking to Apple Care, see if you can talk to someone at the Genius Bar, and maybe take it with you.
3. Apple Authorized Repair shop? Have them run hardware diagnostics.
4. Hardware diagnostic disk may have come with your Mac, check.
5. Panther or Jaguar installed?
6. Full 12 months since purchase, one year is definitely up? If not, (a) call (b) sign up for 2 more years.

Could be RAM, just as suggested, I'd pull all but one out, try again.
No, then swap another RAM stick until you've checked them all.

[gbojim]

Since I'm not on Apple care - if I have to get the Logic board replaced, about what will that cost?

Oh yeah - is there anyway the hard drive could have failed, and that's why I'm getting the Prohibitory sign at startup?

It is possible that the HDD or optical drive failed and is locking up the IDE bus. Try disconnecting one and see if you can boot from the other.

[Dippo]

I was yapping on iChat with a friend and reading this very board on my PM Dual G4 about an hour ago. I went to the kitchen to grab a soda, came back, and the cursor was frozen, no programs or keystokes would respond, so I turned the computer off and tried to reboot. Now, it tunrs on, I get the white/grey APple screen withthe little spinning circle, which it does for about three-four minutes until a "no" sign replaces the apple.

I tried to boot from my Panter disc, to no avail. It just does the same thing. It doesn't sound like the CD in the drive is even spinning.

I'm going over to search the Apple page for answers, but its a terribly slow and painful experience trying to do it on my girlfriend's ancient PC. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Here's somethinf from Apple's Website:

Power Mac G4: Computer Beeps Twice
Article ID:
Created:
Modified: 95051
7/18/00
4/23/01
TOPIC

The Power Mac G4 computer beeps twice at startup. Two beeps means that incompatible RAM types may be installed.
DISCUSSION

This article covers repair procedures for authorized service providers on selected Apple products, but we have published them in the Knowledge Base for the general public for educational purposes. At this time, there are a limited number of repairs that a customer can perform and these are covered under the customer installable parts program http://www.info.apple.com/installparts. If you have not been authorized to perform these procedures, please contact Apple (800-APL-CARE in the USA) or your local authorized service provider to schedule a repair.

Symptom

The Power Mac G4 computer beeps twice at startup.

Products affected
Power Mac G4
Macintosh Server G4
Macintosh Server G4 with Mac OS X Server

Solution

1. Verify that only PC-100 SDRAM DIMMs are installed and not EDO memory.

2. Replace the existing SDRAM one DIMM at a time with known-good PC-100 SDRAM DIMMs.

3. Reseat processor module and try again.

4. Replace processor module and try again.

5. Replace logic board.

[Horrortaxi]

I have only gotten two startup tones - only after resetting PRAM at the startup screen.

How do I reset the firmware?

Thank you all SO much for helping me, seriously!

When you are flashing PRAM, the computer will restart and gong for however long you hold command-option-p-r. I did this on the phone with Apple once and they had me hold it for 4 gongs. 3 is the minimum number i've heard suggested.

To reset open firmware: Start up while holding command-option-o-f. You will boot into a white command line screen. At the prompt type reset-all and then reboot as per the directions on the screen. i think you just type restart and hit enter but it's been a while since I've done it so I'm not 100% on that.

Gut feeling: The fact that it starts/gongs at all makes me doubt that it's a logic board problem. Something got screwed up on your hard drive most likely--or the drive itself died.

[superbovine]

yep i agree with horror taxi 100%.
it sounds like your hd-crashed.

open you case and listen to what your hard drive sound when you boot up.

[MacRAND]

yep i agree with horror taxi 100%.
it sounds like your hd-crashed.
open you case and listen to what your hard drive sound when you boot up.If you eliminate the RAM, it does sound like a Hard Drive.
You should have plenty of room inside for a 2nd 80 to 160 GB 7200 rpm HD; IBM/Hitachi, Seagate, Western Digital, or whatever turns you on, have a good price and/or mail-in rebate, local Fry's Electronics or online store. In California, you have
http://www.ZipZoomFly.com of Newark, CA 94560
www.macmall.com of Torrence, CA 90504
http://eshop.macsales.com/ Other World Computing of Woodstock, IL 60098

Re-install Panther on the new drive, then see if you can access your data on the original drive.
The one thing that bothers me about blaming the hard drive is that you cannot startup on the Panther Install CD, which is independent of the HD. That is why it seems more like a RAM problem than a Hard Drive.

[Mike Teezie]

update:

I installed a brand new HD. Nothing.

I still cant boot from CD. So I can't run the hardware check disc anyway.

Could it be the RAM? I can try to make it up to office depot to buy another stick of 512.

EDIT: Update #2 - I went to office depot, picked up some new RAM. Installed it. Still nothing. Still can't boot from CD. Upon turing the machine on, it the CD sounds like its spinning furiously in the drive, and then it slows, then gets extremely quiet, but I think I can still hear it spinning in the drive.

SO - I've tried new RAM, a new HD, and the thing still won't boot into OS X, or boot from the CD. I'm getting hysterical at this point, because I know I can't afford to replace the Logic Board....

[Horrortaxi]

Let me direct you back to resetting PRAM (let it gong 3-4 times) and open firmware. A lot of people suggest doing this when you install new hardware anyway.

Just for fun, remove anything that didn't come with the computer--PCI cards, RAM, drives, USB devices, etc. Check inside the computer and make sure all the drive cables are plugged in. Plug the mouse into the keyboard and make that computer look like it did out of the box. Then reset everything and see if you can boot from the CD.

I still don't think it sounds like a logic board.

[jap4n]

tried removing the cdrom drive?

eeek...

[Mike Teezie]

This is so strange.

I reset the PRAM and Firmware, then the computer won't even get to the grey screen, it just sits there for a few seconds, then the fans all start humming wildly.

I pull out a stick of ram, and my normal problem occurs.

Is there anyway I could hook another Mac up to mine, and try to run Disk repair from that computer?

[mklos]

update:

I installed a brand new HD. Nothing.

I still cant boot from CD. So I can't run the hardware check disc anyway.

Could it be the RAM? I can try to make it up to office depot to buy another stick of 512.

EDIT: Update #2 - I went to office depot, picked up some new RAM. Installed it. Still nothing. Still can't boot from CD. Upon turing the machine on, it the CD sounds like its spinning furiously in the drive, and then it slows, then gets extremely quiet, but I think I can still hear it spinning in the drive.

SO - I've tried new RAM, a new HD, and the thing still won't boot into OS X, or boot from the CD. I'm getting hysterical at this point, because I know I can't afford to replace the Logic Board....

I bet $199 for the PowerMac AppleCare sounds kinda cheap now doesn't it! It has to be the logic board. Look around on eBay and see if you can find one. Otherwise you PowerMac just turned into a $1299 paper weight. Its very unfortunate...hope you get it fixed!

[Mike Teezie]

Ugh, I don't even know which Logic Board I'd have to buy.

[mklos]

Ugh, I don't even know which Logic Board I'd have to buy.

It would have to be one for a Mirror Door PowerMac G4 with Dual processor slots. I will say that this will not be cheap. Your probably talking around $700 or $800 for the logic board. The only advantage to getting one yourself is you putting it in so you don't have to pay a certified service center to do it for you.

It kinda sucks, but I would just take it to an Apple Authorized Service Center and have them just look at it. They will have diagnostic equipment to test it and see what the problem is. Also, it you live near an Apple Retail Store that would be even better! Then you can decide whether or not its worth fixing what ever the problem may be.

[gbojim]

This is so strange.

I reset the PRAM and Firmware, then the computer won't even get to the grey screen, it just sits there for a few seconds, then the fans all start humming wildly.

I pull out a stick of ram, and my normal problem occurs.

Is there anyway I could hook another Mac up to mine, and try to run Disk repair from that computer?

If you can get your machine to boot into firewire target dist mode - yes you can test the disk. Unfortunately, I don't think your disk is the problem.

BTW - did you try replacing the IDE cable? It's unlikely, but I've seen stranger things happen.

[the Natetrix]

Sometimes you get that error "no smoking" sign when the hard disk can't be located by the bios. Have you tried holding down option at startup? This will launch a boot option that should have your HD and the operating system its running on, if you see that select it and hit the arrow button that faces to the right. If nothing happens, if the screen doesn't change to blue and/or you don't get the icon of your HD then yeah it sounds like a logic board problem.

Also holding option at startup would bring up your Boot CD is you have it in the drive.

[bluetrepidation]

Do you know anyone with a fire wire hard drive? Or a fire wire case? You can put your old hard drive in it and see if she boots through fire wire. This is the only real solution being that your hard drive and cd rom will not boot. These are IDE interfaces and fire wire gets you around that. Seems like your IDE controller went out on you. In which case you will need to replace your motherboard. You could try a PCI ATA card if you could get your hands on one for a mac. But even if these solutions work it doesn't guarantee that your motherboard will be stable anymore. If you choose to replace your motherboard be sure to check your power supply as well. With age they get unstable and cause the MB to fail. You will not need a "dule processor" motherboard. They are all the same. It's the sawtooth processor card that differs. You can always keep your eyes on EBay for one or talk to Apple. Also check out www.shrevesystems.com (http://www.shrevesystems.com)Call them, sometimes they get a few from who knows where but they'll hook you up.

A.J.

[Mike Teezie]

Sometimes you get that error "no smoking" sign when the hard disk can't be located by the bios. Have you tried holding down option at startup? This will launch a boot option that should have your HD and the operating system its running on, if you see that select it and hit the arrow button that faces to the right. If nothing happens, if the screen doesn't change to blue and/or you don't get the icon of your HD then yeah it sounds like a logic board problem.

Also holding option at startup would bring up your Boot CD is you have it in the drive.

Ok, I did this, and a CD icon showed up, and a hard drive icon showed up.

The CD icon is highlighted, but I can't get it to do anything from there? Is there a certain key I need to press to try to get it to boot from either icon?

[the Natetrix]

Ok, I did this, and a CD icon showed up, and a hard drive icon showed up.

The CD icon is highlighted, but I can't get it to do anything from there? Is there a certain key I need to press to try to get it to boot from either icon?

You should be able to highlight either one of the icons, like it will indent when selected as if you pressed the icon like a button. Selecting one makes it the boot drive. But you need to press the --> button on the right side of the screen. (Sorry for the crappy graphic, its an arrow pointint to the right) its NOT the arrow that looks like a looping arrow. After selecting the boot drive and fowarding the boot up by pressing the right arrow it should load up.

[whw5]

there are two possible things you can do. The first is turning your mac into a firewire drive. To do this press and hold the T key right after starting up your mac. Within a few seconds a fire wire symble will appear. Then plug your mac via firewire into a healthy mac and you can get the files you need. The second possibilty is that your mother board needs to be reset. To do this open up your mac and there should be a red button or any button on the motherboard. press it and hold it and it might get u up and running

[seamuskrat]

Here are some options. I had a similar problem with my dual G4 tower. By the way, did you update any software recently? I am convinced the iTunes/iCal update back in November trashed mine....

1. ZAP PRAM. You have done this is seems.
2. Reset Firmware. Boot into firmware mode, and type reset- nvram <RETURN> reset-all <RETURN>
3. Shut off and open case and press CUDA reset button on logic board.
4. Boot into SINGLE USER MODE (Apple S)
See what is says. You may see a bunch of unix textstuff scrolling. How far does it get? Do you see anything that says Carbon Lazy Values = some number!!?
If you see this, then DW, TTP, etc. cannot fix it.
On most systems, an external FW drive with bootable partition WILL boot the machine. Internal CD or drive will not. Not sure WHY, but it was the case for me. You can take it to an Apple Store or somewhere to see if you can boot it off an external drive. I was able to do this, backupfiles, nuke the drive and reinstall.

[donatelli]

I'm having serious trouble with my PowerBook 15" Titanium purchased in April 2003... I tried to install Panther, told me I had to reboot to install, so I let it do it's thing. It restarts fine and a folder pops up with what I thought to be installed Panther OS files... I go into Prefs and switch startup disks to check it out and now I can't boot from ANYTHING... No hardware disc, not my Jaguar disc, anything (and I did hold down C.)

I installed from an image my friend made me, mounted (shame on me) I've tried to reset PRAM etc but it's as if my keyboard isn't sending a signal. I press the APPLE key and sometiems I get sent to a password field, yet I was unsuccessful there because I typed my user password in and nothing. I go into Open Firmware and I try to use the command lines for reseting all, pram etc and it also asks me for a PASSWORD... What is this password crap and why do I have one on there? I haven't come across one person who has had this problem when trying to reset PRAM/NVRAM...

Do you think I'd be able to boot from say, a bootable Panther disc that my friend could make for me?

[mikeyredk]

just for kicks hold down apple + v on boot

also can u hear the boot up chime?

[Coolvirus007]

Does that meant that you were able to reset PRAM (3 restarts) and a firmware reset?
How were you able to install panther on the new hard drive that you installed (or you just plugged it in)?
As someone mentioned, did you check every stick of RAM? (Plug one in at a time.)
Also, did you unplug the CD rom drive cable and try to restart?
To check whether the hard drive is bad, try pluggin it in to someone else's mac and boot off it.

Try the really really really small "interupt button". That might do something. (Its smaller than the restart button.)
Or try a new power supply.

If you have done all that, then the problem might be out of your reach. (But regarding the logic board, I think that nothing shows up on screen if it breaks.)

[stargrrrl]

i have to tell you that i found this thread while looking for a last attempt at resurrecting my DEAD mac & i followed the links to the apple docs & reset the PRAM & lo & behold after a few groggy minutes my sweet lil 'ol mac desktop FINALLY showed up. you guys helped me so much as it crashed right in the middle of a web job i desperately needed to get done. i thought i was going to have to tell the client we were going to have to start from scratch. that will teach me to backup now won't it? :D :D :D :D

cheers to you all!

[iowacity]

i have to tell you that i found this thread while looking for a last attempt at resurrecting my DEAD mac & i followed the links to the apple docs & reset the PRAM & lo & behold after a few groggy minutes my sweet lil 'ol mac desktop FINALLY showed up. you guys helped me so much as it crashed right in the middle of a web job i desperately needed to get done. i thought i was going to have to tell the client we were going to have to start from scratch. that will teach me to backup now won't it? :D :D :D :D

cheers to you all!

I'm going to be trying some of these tips, too, in an attempt to resurrect my DEAD 450 mhz G4. Apparently it passed away yesterday afternoon and is now giving me the '? folder' icon at startup. My CD Drive hasn't been working for a month or two, so booting for the system disk hasn't been an option. I'll see what happens this evening after using some of these tricks.