Pictures of screen lines in Rev. B Macbook Air models? [Archive]

tubbymac

Jan 13, 2009, 03:58 PM

That screen had it really bad. The problem varies to different degrees on most screens I've seen. Shokunin had the picture which captured it best I think:

http://www.kiso.net/images/mbalines.jpg

Most MBA rev B's I've seen look more like this shot here. Usually it's more like this picture here where it's easier to get distracted by other things like the wavy distortion from the camera or the lights or whatever and you have to mentally block that out to actually see the faint lines (which is the actual problem). Shokunin drew a slanted horizontal line in this picture which matches the slope of the faint horizontal lines he saw. If you can get past the waves, you'll see the lines.

mhnajjar

Jan 13, 2009, 04:13 PM

May I ask, is this writeup going to be for a magazine/website? Would you provide us with the finished version? :D

BTW, it would help if you send it to SteveJ also :)

SummerBoy

Jan 13, 2009, 04:53 PM

don't waste your time

Apple dont care about this problem cuz nbody buys MBA

justit

Jan 13, 2009, 05:27 PM

It's a subjective problem, were you expecting a total recall? Talking with geniuses with "if we fix it it may not solve the problem" lets me know they know its there but it's not catching on fire and hitting the nightly news.

mhnajjar

Jan 13, 2009, 07:16 PM

TOTAL recall is the least Apple can do to compensate us.

Kan-O-Z

Jan 13, 2009, 07:49 PM

don't waste your time

Apple dont care about this problem cuz nbody buys MBA

Why don't you troll around somewhere else.

LinMac

Jan 13, 2009, 09:45 PM

You can use my own pictures and it would be nice if you give me credit :D

---

Screen model 00009C9A
Production: week 50

:mad:@:apple:

I showed these pictures to a few people, but we weren't directly able to discern where these lines were in the pictures. Can you give us some type of guide to them so we can describe where they are in the pictures?

May I ask, is this writeup going to be for a magazine/website? Would you provide us with the finished version? :D

BTW, it would help if you send it to SteveJ also :)

It is primarily targeted at college/corporate IT departments and discusses the latest non-Windows products or solutions. I was asked for Mac content and I thought this might make an interesting topic for a short writeup.

HLdan

Jan 13, 2009, 10:02 PM

I showed these pictures to a few people, but we weren't directly able to discern where these lines were in the pictures. Can you give us some type of guide to them so we can describe where they are in the pictures?

It is primarily targeted at college/corporate IT departments and discusses the latest non-Windows products or solutions. I was asked for Mac content and I thought this might make an interesting topic for a short writeup.

How is talking about an LCD with faint lines an interesting topic in regards to Macs?
Why don't you do a topic about the Macintosh system, that would be something more suited for IT departments to learn about. People are trying to move Macs into the enterprise world but IT departments don't want them because they don't understand them so a topic about the Macintosh Operating System would be a great topic rather than an LCD screen in a Macbook Air.

SummerBoy

Jan 13, 2009, 10:21 PM

Why don't you troll around somewhere else.

Hmm? :D

LinMac

Jan 13, 2009, 11:12 PM

How is talking about an LCD with faint lines an interesting topic in regards to Macs?
Why don't you do a topic about the Macintosh system, that would be something more suited for IT departments to learn about. People are trying to move Macs into the enterprise world but IT departments don't want them because they don't understand them so a topic about the Macintosh Operating System would be a great topic rather than an LCD screen in a Macbook Air.

We did a writeup about the "Core Shutdown Issue" awhile back and it proved to be one of the most popular pieces we had done. This might not be as popular, but it might at least be an interesting filler piece to add a couple of additional pages. :)

My task here is to find a general interest story about a popular product like the Macbook Air that hasn't been written about so many times it is done to death. The "Core Shutdown Issue" and iMac 20" screen story were both very popular so I hope this turns out the same way.

I'm not out to bash Apple and I will be contacting them for a comment on the story. I always give any company a chance to respond and we will "print" (display on website with story or print onto paper) their response in full with the story if they respond.

mhnajjar

Jan 14, 2009, 02:56 AM

LinMac

Jan 14, 2009, 03:34 AM

LinMac, it might help if you tilt your screen back and forth in order to see the lines on my pictures.

BTW, did you write about how Apple is locking the MBA revA CPU frequency to 800 MHz? :rolleyes: They did this as a way to prevent core shutdown.

I tried to do a bit of screen tilting on my Macbook Pro, but really I don't see much. Could you crack open a paint type application and circle the lines so we have a frame of reference? Obviously we won't run those, but it would certainly help to have it for when I submit it all to editing.

drjsway

Jan 14, 2009, 04:09 AM

I always assumed I didn't have these lines but today, I think I finally found them. If I place my chin on the trackpad and tilt the display all the way back, I can barely make out faint horizontal lines. Is this really what all the fuzz is about? If this is all it is, complainers need to get a life. If the problem is more severe on other displays, then I understand. How many people can actually see these lines without looking at the screen from extremely awkward angles?

EnderTW

Jan 14, 2009, 04:32 AM

It's apparent it is there. I can definitely see it right now as I am typing this message in my 1.6/120 gig mba.

Do a solid color background, and just move your head up/down, you'll see it.

To me, it's not a problem at all I don't notice it immensely, but it's definitely there.

Also, I am glad you are writing this article an apple manager said, "It's normal, it's apart of the display"

I didn't care because I love the screen, just not the lines.

drjsway

Jan 14, 2009, 04:52 AM

EnderTW

Jan 14, 2009, 04:59 AM

I cannot see it with just solid color and moving my head. The only way I can see it is by putting my chin on the trackpad, tilting display all the way back, in a moderately lit room. Even then, the lines are very faint. In a completely dark room, I cannot see it at all (whether at full brightness or dim). Perhaps your case is more severe than mine.

Wow.

I can see it in the white textbox very easily laying down with the computer on my chest and screen is 90 degree angle from the base.

ugh. this isn't good. I didn't know there were variations.

Alucardx03

Jan 14, 2009, 05:07 AM

I always assumed I didn't have these lines but today, I think I finally found them. If I place my chin on the trackpad and tilt the display all the way back, I can barely make out faint horizontal lines.

If you hold any machine to such a ridiculous standard, you're going to find flaws. I'm all for wanting a perfect computer, but some things just aren't worth the hassle. In my opinion, time and energy could be better spent elsewhere.

But, if it bothers you that much, I would pursue it.

iann1982

Jan 14, 2009, 06:18 AM

BTW, did you write about how Apple is locking the MBA revA CPU frequency to 800 MHz? :rolleyes: They did this as a way to prevent core shutdown.

That's not strictly correct - when the processor gets hot, it'll scale the speed back, so it'll drop to 1.4, then 1.2, then 1.0, and finally down to 800mhz, once it's cooled off it'll scale back up in the same steps.

tubbymac

Jan 14, 2009, 07:12 AM

Could you crack open a paint type application and circle the lines so we have a frame of reference? Obviously we won't run those, but it would certainly help to have it for when I submit it all to editing.

Here's my quick MS Paint edit of the photos. I couldn't figure out the Mac way to do this as I couldn't find any paint program installed with my OSX. Anyways I made two red lines in each photo that overlay two horizontal lines in each. I was pretty accurate in mhnajjar's picture (pixel width is 1) but in shokunin's picture I had to overwrite his black line with my red line (pixel width 3 to do this) so it's not as accurate.

It's actually a bit amusing that it's this difficult for people to see the lines on the pictures. Maybe one of the reasons this problem is so debated is that most people just have bad vision and can't see the things. It's clear as day to some of us though. Usually I'd suggest people get their eyes checked but with the trouble a few of us have had trying to find a screen without the lines, ignorance is really bliss in this case. I actually don't recommend viewing these pictures if you're happy with your screen. This is one of those things that once you see, it's very hard to unsee.

Obviously between the two pictures there is quite a difference in how bad the lines are. The problem varies from good screens, to ones with very faint lines, to ones with thicker more visible lines, to really bad screens, etc. The slope of the lines is also not constant. Some slope downwards while other screens slope upwards.

drjsway

Jan 14, 2009, 07:44 AM

If you hold any machine to such a ridiculous standard, you're going to find flaws. I'm all for wanting a perfect computer, but some things just aren't worth the hassle. In my opinion, time and energy could be better spent elsewhere.

But, if it bothers you that much, I would pursue it.

Did you read the rest of my post? I wrote that it wasn't a big deal and unless people were more severe cases, they should forget about it.

drjsway

Jan 14, 2009, 07:48 AM

Obviously between the two pictures there is quite a difference in how bad the lines are. The problem varies from good screens, to ones with very faint lines, to ones with thicker more visible lines, to really bad screens, etc. The slope of the lines is also not constant. Some slope downwards while other screens slope upwards.

LOL, the lines on the first pic is just the pixel structure. It's not sloped upwards, the screen is just tilted. Of course if you zoom into any LCD, there will be "horizontal lines" because there are square pixels. Every MBA will have 800 horizontal lines and 1280 vertical lines.

Not that the problem doesn't exist, it does, but the first pic doesn't have it.

tubbymac

Jan 14, 2009, 08:12 AM

LOL, the lines on the first pic is just the pixel structure. It's not sloped upwards, the screen is just tilted. Of course if you zoom into any LCD, there will be "horizontal lines" because there are square pixels. Every MBA will have 800 horizontal lines and 1280 vertical lines.

Not that the problem doesn't exist, it does, but the first pic doesn't have it.

Reading comprehension, maybe? Did I say the first picture has sloping lines? Is anybody actually stupid enough to think the lines in the first picture have a slope? Funny stuff. I have a theory in another thread that the first picture might be a different problem than the second. It's not just the square pixels or else the vertical lines would be as distinct as the horizontal ones (kinda like a picture posted by Ironic in another thread where the grid was very visible).

Anyhow I have actually not seen a rev B yet where the lines fall exactly on the pixel grid like in the first picture. Also I've never seen one where the lines slope downwards. All the ones I've seen slope upwards to the right unlike either of the pictures. So your experiences may vary.

sanPietro98

Jan 14, 2009, 08:19 AM

I've tried searching the various threads and still can't find this answer...

Has the screen problem in the MBA Rev B been fixed on the more recently manufactured MBAs?

tubbymac

Jan 14, 2009, 08:26 AM

frifra

Jan 14, 2009, 01:16 PM

@tubbymac

Your Picture shows nothing. Not a good screen nor a bad one.

I would recommend you to read the closed threads:

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520 (over 38.000 views, nearly 600 comments)

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=612040 (14.000 views, around 250 comments)

Especially in the first one are some good summaries:
- GOOD SUMMARY: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=410

- Forum Summary http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=527

- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=578

But as far as I am concerned there has been still no one who has seen the lines and has now got a replacement which is just fine. PLEASE CORRECT ME ON THAT, if I am WRONG. But there still seems to exist this problem.

Further, a lot of people who said in the first place, that there SCREEN IS FLAWLESS, later on (after 1 or 2 weeks) started to recognize the issue.

I still have not seen a single unit of an MBA Rev.B without the lines (or flickering). While the lines are a much bigger issue.

Anybody who at the moment is located in the north of Germany is welcome to contact me, and show me his FLAWLESS unit - I would love to see (and buy) one.

THANKS

hscottm

Jan 14, 2009, 02:34 PM

I've tried searching the various threads and still can't find this answer...

Has the screen problem in the MBA Rev B been fixed on the more recently manufactured MBAs?

I received an MBA last Monday ( a week ago) that very much still had the problem.

Note they will always have this problem. Apple is not acknowledging it can be fixed and has said it is within their design specs. Waiting for it to be "fixed" is not worth doing (I already returned the computer and "moved on" to something else as a result).

nph

Jan 14, 2009, 03:44 PM

I agree, I have seen several Air's at different retailers both 1.6 and 1.8 and so far they all have the 'line' issue to some extent. But bottom line is that the screens just doesn't seem as nice as the Rev A ones.
Plus I noticed that 1.6 (rev B) can not display HD content properly, you need the 1.8 SSD to do that, whether that is due to the .2 GHz increase or the SSD I cant tell but even though they both have the 9400 graphic card (same) there is definately more pixelation (blockiness) in the content of HD on the 1.6 which I dont see on the 1.8. The higher end version shows the same quality as the new MBP. So this means I need to spend $2400 to get decent graphics on the AIR which is almost twice compared to last gen MBP...

I am starting to lean toward last gen MBP with a semi glossy screen (glossy but not nearly as reflective as the new ones). Problem is I dont know if it will be as hot as my original MBP which had to be serviced by Apple due to heat issues initially.
I cant tell if the Penryn will be slightly cooler since I get such differing opions about it. But the screen and battery life is definately a plus with that one.
The deals are going fast so I need to decide soon and the AIR issue doesn't look like it wil be resolved anytime soon.

Do you all agree?

tom1971

Jan 14, 2009, 04:00 PM

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520 (over 38.000 views, nearly 600 comments)

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=612040 (14.000 views, around 250 comments)

Especially in the first one are some good summaries:
- GOOD SUMMARY: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=410

- Forum Summary http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=527

- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...&postcount=578

Could you fix the links ? They are all not working..

tubbymac

Jan 15, 2009, 02:20 AM

@tubbymac

Your Picture shows nothing. Not a good screen nor a bad one.

But as far as I am concerned there has been still no one who has seen the lines and has now got a replacement which is just fine.

Well these aren't my pictures per say but my interpretation of other people's pictures. I don't think you'll accept anything until your condition is met. Until somebody reports seeing lines, gets a screen with lines, and then exchanges it for a machine without lines, you won't be convinced that a screen without lines even exists.

It's probably why these threads get locked eventually. The topic has been beaten to death and no amount of pictures will convince any of the entrenched camps to change their minds.

One camp believes that all screens have the lines and people just can't see them. Another camp believes since their machine is decent that MOST machines are good. Yet another camp believes that since most machines they've seen in person are bad MOST machines are bad. That's about all the summary you need. There's a bunch of entrenched camps of belief and a badly beaten dead horse.

kloan

Jan 15, 2009, 02:38 AM

Just so everybody has a reference for comparison, the pretty much flawless screen that I mentioned above can be found here. This was a shot taken by Ironic of his perfect rev B screen. This is the type of screen many of us are trying to find for ourselves.

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=148183&d=1229139912

Good pic. Shows what the screen should look like. However we don't know if that's a Macbook Air screen or not...

Did we ever find out what LCD his was? I think it might have been 9C98?

Mine has the lines and it's 9C9A...

I wonder if Apple would consider replacing the LCD with one from a Rev A.

mhnajjar

Jan 15, 2009, 03:39 AM

I wonder if Apple would consider replacing the LCD with one from a Rev A.

I considered that option too since I noticed that the revAs on display have the lines also!!!

It is either that Apple is using the same screens on the lately produced revAs or is that the lines are caused due to some wiring fault!

I am sure my revA did not have the lines for sure.

frifra

Jan 15, 2009, 06:00 AM

Could you fix the links ? They are all not working..

I am sorry for the last 3 links. But the first and the second are working. Here again (with the last 3 fixed):

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6603546&postcount=134

- GOOD SUMMARY: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6688398&postcount=410

- Forum Summary: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6702879&postcount=527

- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6714050&postcount=578

kloan

Jan 15, 2009, 05:00 PM

I am sorry for the last 3 links. But the first and the second are working. Here again (with the last 3 fixed):

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=594520

- http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6603546&postcount=134

- GOOD SUMMARY: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6688398&postcount=410

- Forum Summary: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6702879&postcount=527

- latest news on how to fix the FLICKERING: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6714050&postcount=578
That so-called "fix" is total BS. First of all, it makes the screen entirely too blue, and second, it does nothing to stop the flickering. The flickering won't go away with any software setting, it's a manufactured DEFECT.

frifra

Jan 17, 2009, 10:35 AM

Well these aren't my pictures per say but my interpretation of other people's pictures. I don't think you'll accept anything until your condition is met. Until somebody reports seeing lines, gets a screen with lines, and then exchanges it for a machine without lines, you won't be convinced that a screen without lines even exists.

It's probably why these threads get locked eventually. The topic has been beaten to death and no amount of pictures will convince any of the entrenched camps to change their minds.
...

Well, I can tell you that is not the case.
I will certainly believe it, if somebody posts a picture, which clearly shows a MBA Rev. B without lines (e.g. on the google page).

The problem with that is, that it is really really hard to take a kind of good picture. I will explain you why: I had an MBA Rev.B with lines. They were clearly visible, also 2 Genius and other staff of the apple store saw them. Thus, I am not blind ;). ALTHOUGH, it was not possible for me with 3 different cameras (Fuji, Canon, Panasonic) with different options/modes to take a single picture where one could see the lines on the PHOTO.
All the lines which were visible, were some kind of interference lines (which are visible in the picture above too).

What needs to be done would be a kind of FIXED SETUP, e.g. a certain screen setup, angle, camera position, brightness, etc. where you would see the lines with nearly every camera. If this is done, than it is easily to proof, that there are MBAs withOUT the lines.

matt8804

Jun 3, 2009, 04:12 AM

Hello guys, I'm a new italian user, sorry for my English ...

Here are photos of my MBA rev B with the lines...

Are very obvious :mad:

hohohong

Jun 3, 2009, 04:55 AM

WOW! Now I know what you guys are talking about,.... I'll bring my MBA in tom to apple store to compare with a MBP.

Veinticinco

Jun 3, 2009, 05:46 AM

Hello guys, I'm a new italian user, sorry for my English ...

Here are photos of my MBA rev B with the lines...

Are very obvious :mad:
Benvenuto, il vostro inglese è benissimo ;)

Another really bad case of lines, but can you please post specs - HDD or SSD, and what screen model (go to SysPrefs/Display....Color tab....then click 'Open Profile' and scroll down to the last but one....gives you the screen model....usually a 9C90 or 9C9A).

Whatever, assume you plan on returning it?

matt8804

Jun 3, 2009, 06:48 AM

Model with hdd, lcd 9C90.
This afternoon I come back to the Apple store to inquire...

Veinticinco

Jun 3, 2009, 08:16 AM

Model with hdd, lcd 9C90.
This afternoon I come back to the Apple store to inquire...
Yeah the HDD/9C90 combo was one of the worst for lines.

If I were you I'd ask for a refund, and hold out until the rev.C is announced which may (or may not but we hope) be announced in the next 2 weeks or so.

matt8804

Jun 4, 2009, 08:06 AM

Yesterday I went to the apple store.
There were 2 MBA, first with hdd/9C90 and the other with ssd/9C9A.
Both had the problem of lines.
The Apple salesman told me that he had never noticed, but thought to be a feature of the MBA Rev B.
He advised me to contact Apple support for more information.
I think that the cause of the lines is the antiglare layer of the screen.
In MBA rev A (9C73) anti-glare layer is different, the lines are there but are more subtle. The screen seems to be more grainy, and light colors appear dirty, as if there were screens on a layer of dust.
My ideas about anti-glare layer are only assumptions, but I would like a precise technical explanation from Apple, the statement "it is normal, they are all so", it seems simplistic and shows little attention to you
MBA Rev B.....................................................................................MBA Rev A

caonimadebi

Jun 6, 2009, 05:06 AM

I finally saw a "lined" MBA rev. B today (it was a 9C90) in store. I don't think any of the pictures in this thread correctly depicts the perceived lines when seen in person. If viewing a mostly white page, you'll see this papyrus-like texture that doesnt seem to run parallel to the pixel alignments. Surprisingly, it's when viewed from distance that the effect becomes bothersome.
I have a 9C8F and I can definitely tell the difference when mine is placed next to 9C90.

Prenvo

Jun 6, 2009, 07:32 AM