Xserve G5s Delayed

[MacRumors]

MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=8111) reports confirmation that the Xserve G5s utilizing the new PowerPC 970FX processor has seen delays.

An official statement released to Macworld says: "We've received an incredible amount of customer interest for the new Xserve G5 1U rack-mount server since it was announced at Macworld Expo in January 2004.

"We're working hard to start shipping the new Xserve systems in March 2004, not by the end of February as originally announced."

No reasons regarding the delays has been given, but speculation suggests the same issues may have delayed a PowerMac G5 (970FX) upgrade.

[iggyb]

AARGH!

Oh well, I guess March isn't too far off their delivery schedule. But these delays are starting to get annoying...

[Photorun]

Man, can't Apple deliver in volume just once on time?!? Maybe if Jobs didn't do his who razzmatazz 'oooh ahhh' thing and just churned out we wouldn't have these things happen.

[wizard]

All the rumors and speculation are fine. What bothers me is that we may never know for sure what the QC issue is or was. I do hope that Apple/IBM come clean on this delay.

The actual delay on the machines is not a big issue as I'm not in a positon to buy one right away. My interest actually revolves around engineering problems and how they are resolved.

Thanks
Dave



MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=8111) reports confirmation that the Xserve G5s utilizing the new PowerPC 970FX processor has seen delays.



No reasons regarding the delays has been given, but speculation suggests the same issues may have delayed a PowerMac G5 (970FX) upgrade.

[Mr. Anderson]

But have any of these things shown up at Virginia Tech? 1100 to replace the original dual 2.0 PowerMacs is not an insignificant number - it might be one reason they aren't yet available...

D

[johnnyjibbs]

This could explain the delays to the rest of the line, such as the new PowerMacs

[MongoTheGeek]

Man, can't Apple deliver in volume just once on time?!? Maybe if Jobs didn't do his who razzmatazz 'oooh ahhh' thing and just churned out we wouldn't have these things happen.

Right now the only thing that would ooh and aah me is being at WWDC seeing product X announced and seeing 4 tractor traillers outside loaded heavy with the beasts for delivery.

[dukemeiser]

At least Apple didn't announce these at MWSF. Apple isn't really late with these, because they haven't set a date to be late.

[paulypants]

big surprise... :o

[rabatjoie]

What bothers me is that we may never know for sure what the QC issue is or was.

what's that with the "QC issue"? sounds mysterious. could you explain?

[BornAgainMac]

They probably didn't have a big demand for the rack mounted G4. Now everyone wants a rack mounted G5 to build their own Supercomputer for cheap. I hope there is a big demand anyways.

[suzerain]

I can't help but think the delays on the XServes and the Power Mac upgrades are due to IBM. I bet switching to the 90nm process hasn't been as smooth as possible. This is purely speculation on my part, but looking at the other linked article, it would appear that the most significant new add-on to the line is the 970FX chip.

XServes certainly don't need to be held up for ATI video cards, after all...

[DrBoar]

QC=Quality Control.
If it heat in the rack server why would that affect the tower? It has plenty of space and fans to cool CPUs producing copious amounts of heat. I do hope that the IBM 970 will to a G4 turn on us :(

[miloblithe]

The thing I hate about these delays is how anouncements are "Apple is delivering today" even though they are not even planning to _ship_ for months, and then the ship date is delayed. What does delivering mean in this context? Delivering the idea of the product? I realize my language complaint isn't as important as the actual shipment of the machines and real delays, but I still find it annoying.

I agree that it would be nice to see Apple announce some major new product and actually ship it more or less immediately thereafter, but that doesn't seem to be Apple's way. They seem to like buzz to build for a while after an announcement.

[rsnyder@psu.edu]

This is old news. Anyone who actually orded a G5 Xserve since they were added to the Apple Store probably has the same delivery date they had when their order was placed. I ordered three in January and just checking my order status, it has not budged from March 26 . . . . same as it always was.

Now the real thing to watch is when the first 1,000 get to Virginia Tech ;)

[jcdenton]

Why do I feel like we've been down this road before?

If IBM turns into another Motorola this could be the end of the Macintosh.

Break out the 6 months-to-bankruptcy rumor again... :)

[MacVault]

Maybe FedEx really is switching to Macs and ordered 10000 units, hence the delay ;)

[Trimix]

why is everbody bitching and moaning about delays ? i am taking a lot of pleasure from the fact that apple have entered a new area and cannot keep up with the interest they create. go apple go :p

[rsnyder@psu.edu]

They probably didn't have a big demand for the rack mounted G4. Now everyone wants a rack mounted G5 to build their own Supercomputer for cheap. I hope there is a big demand anyways.

There is quite a bit of pent up demand for the G5 Xserve. In fact the demand is great enough that Apple is doing no (ZERO) volumn deals on the G5 Xserve pricing.

They actually have sold a lot of their server solution hardware (G4 Xserves and xRAID boxes). But when the G5 tower was released last summer, all of us knew it would only be a matter of time until the G5 Xserve was released.

All the rumors I heard over the past summer and fall had placed the G5 Xserve release in March. February actually was earlier than expected. But like I said below, my ship data has not changed from March 23, the same date it was when the order was placed in January.

[Trowaman]

well, I guess it's better they gey get them running perfectly and be late rather than arrive on time and not work right. I'd rather have late nd perfection. Oh well, I'm just a college student so I didn't order one nor do I really "get" the needs and pressures from big businesses. :rolleyes: :cool:

[kaneda]

I think Virginia Tech will get their orders first. Remember they are upgrading their Supercomputer using the new G5 Xserver. That's probably the reason for the delay.

[Wendy_Rebecca]

AARGH!

Oh well, I guess March isn't too far off their delivery schedule. But these delays are starting to get annoying...

STARTING? STARTING to get annoying? Please. Heads should roll at Apple, and that starts at the top. Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

This is ridiculous. WTF is going on in Cupertino?

----edit----
What kind of idiot rates this as "positive"?

[legion]

There is quite a bit of pent up demand for the G5 Xserve. In fact the demand is great enough that Apple is doing no (ZERO) volumn deals on the G5 Xserve pricing.


Not true.. Apple is offering volume deals on G5 Xserves if you contact them directly in a business capacity.

Also, I love the way this thread is turning into "it must be IBM's fault"


'Cause, there's no way it could be Apple's..nooooo waaayy! Apple's never done anything like this before...


For what Apple could have screwed up... let's see:
Case and mobo fab contracts backed up.
Design issues for cooling.
Power supply issues.

So far, IBM has always been true to their word on the design and requirements of their chips and their samples have been provided enough months out. It's up to Apple to carry it the rest of the way to a product. Also, remember that it takes maybe 2-3weeks to generate enough chips for Apple's total demand in chips for any products lifetime from the fab plant in E. Fishkill. Apple is really a small time player in chip demand.

[marco114]

Qty 3: XSERVE/2GHZ DP/2GB/750/CD/RAID PCI/RA/LL
On or before 03/22/2004

that's what mine has said for a long time.. i hope it's not longer than this date, because we were promised them last month!

[MadMan]

That's what mine has said since I placed the order in Jan...

Guess we'll see in a couple of days!

MM

[johnnyjibbs]

STARTING? STARTING to get annoying? Please. Heads should roll at Apple, and that starts at the top. Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

This is ridiculous. WTF is going on in Cupertino?

----edit----
What kind of idiot rates this as "positive"?
All products of this complexity (i.e. computers) have small problems, teething troubles. Some just turn out to be dud. It is not normally a design flaw though. You will always hear more complaints than thanks.

Sure, Apple needs to pick up the pace but surely it's a good thing that they can't keep up with demand? Better than there being no demand at all.

[Mac-Xpert]

If IBM turns into another Motorola this could be the end of the Macintosh.

I don't think it's IBM's fault. The rumored cooling problems might have to do with more than just the processor. It might just be the rest of the chipset that's producing the extra heat. This would be a problem Apple has to solve.

[dex22]

I prefer by far the idea that Apple holds off. This is a server product, and Apple's reputation is riding on it. When you have a processor and chipset revision, it seems prudent to QA it very thoroughly, and not release until you're SURE any possible problems or weaknesses are ironed out.

Being a server product, Apple knows it has a longer lifecycle and it is therefore more important to take care of this stuff before release and not have to deal with any uncertainties...

Uncertainties are devastating in this market segment. It's cheaper to hold off...

[georgep]

why is everbody bitching and moaning about delays ? i am taking a lot of pleasure from the fact that apple have entered a new area and cannot keep up with the interest they create. go apple go :p

I'll give you a good reason to bitch. I would get a 10pct discount from a certain store for any purchase I make on my birthday, around mid-March. Looks like I will be paying 10pct more whenever these Power Macs do come. :mad:

[rog]

I think this argues for elimination of Macworlds or at least a policy from Apple that they won't announce new products at them. I believe it forces them to rush things and they are constantly announcing products months ahead of time, which of course makes current model a worse deal, and shuts down sales. Who in their right mind would have bought an XServe G4 since this announcement? When businesses need servers, they can't just wait 2-4 months like Apple makes them do. This is why they will never increase market share in the corporate sector. I can think of 2 people I know who wanted an iPod Mini when it was announced, went to a store thinking it was available a month after the announcement and tons of ads, and found that they weren't available. Now the thrill has passed for them and they aren't planning to get an iPod at all. Brilliant. It almost seems like Apple is getting worse and worse at delivering on time. I swear, things were almost better a few years ago with all Motorola chips.

[SpudNYC]

Think the new Verginia Tech cluster will take the #2 spot?

[Benjamin]

i think it is the increasing demand for the xserve and that products like this.. -> http://www.apple.com/xserve/cluster/wgcluster.html are being made for research and development, who knows what kinds of orders are on the list for xserves and it is clear from reading that, first hand that dates aren't moving at all for shipping the units, just the press release that says that they are shipping from apple.

[Stella]

No wonder Apple have only 2% market share.. they are unable to deliver the demand!

[lind0834]

If they have been selling the old Virginia Tech G5s, doesn't that mean they have started to get replacements? I haven't heard if anybody actually bought one of the used G5's.. maybe they have a similar March shipping date.

[a17inchFuture]

No wonder Apple have only 2% market share.. they are unable to deliver the demand!

DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!

I think they are suffering from many things, one of which is these sort of issues. Tech doesn't really deserve an unveiling often, I don't feel, and Apple's completely non-up-front attitude toward announcement, progress, etc. only hurts them, i feel. They are arguably on the cutting edge in every other facet. So what else could it be that is holding them back, as 2-5 percent is quite weak for a name such as they are?

And a better question: What do delays like this signify for impending udpates on possible g5 pbooks. Could they be getting ready for some of those, and could the new books be the reason for the holdup? Or are they still a couple updates away and will they simply be pushed back even further due to this delay?

[spinko]

The thing I hate about these delays is how anouncements are "Apple is delivering today" even though they are not even planning to _ship_ for months, and then the ship date is delayed. What does delivering mean in this context? Delivering the idea of the product? I realize my language complaint isn't as important as the actual shipment of the machines and real delays, but I still find it annoying.

I agree that it would be nice to see Apple announce some major new product and actually ship it more or less immediately thereafter, but that doesn't seem to be Apple's way. They seem to like buzz to build for a while after an announcement.

then the buzz turns to frustration... i just wish they would make less of a fuss and bring out that new hardware / software on a regular basis and let us (the users) be nicely surprised ...

[gerlitzappel]

I don't think it's IBM's fault. The rumored cooling problems might have to do with more than just the processor. It might just be the rest of the chipset that's producing the extra heat. This would be a problem Apple has to solve.

That makes good sense. Every article I have read on the new G5 processor says that it runs faster and COOLER, how could there be cooling issues with the processor?

[gerlitzappel]

regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.

I am happy to know that I own both a BMW and Mercedes computer!

[klaus]

regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.

I am happy to know that I own both a BMW and Mercedes computer!

here we go again..
get on topic..

[daveL]

That makes good sense. Every article I have read on the new G5 processor says that it runs faster and COOLER, how could there be cooling issues with the processor?
The point being made by the original poster (Mac-Xpert) was that the heat problems may be due to chips *other than the processor*, e.g. the system controller and/or i/o controller chipsets.

[gerlitzappel]

here we go again..
get on topic..

damn, busted by the 'on topic police'

[gerlitzappel]

The point being made by the original poster (Mac-Xpert) was that the heat problems may be due to chips *other than the processor*, e.g. the system controller and/or i/o controller chipsets.

I agree with that point, that's why I wrote "That makes good sense".

[Dont Hurt Me]

STARTING? STARTING to get annoying? Please. Heads should roll at Apple, and that starts at the top. Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.

This is ridiculous. WTF is going on in Cupertino?

----edit----
What kind of idiot rates this as "positive"? You are right, I wonder what they are doing with all those millions because it doesnt look like they spend a nickel on getting it right. Every Revision A product seems to have lots of problems and everyone buying them become Beta testers for Apple. I still think they have a bunch of clowns running the hardware division. They dont have a clue why the sales suck compared to any Pc company. Heck the likes of Acer are selling more. Now we get to hear more Bmw,Mercedes crap etc. I wonder why those Fords or rather Wintels are still matching dual G5 performance. I think i just figured it out those dollars are lining Jobs & Ives pockets while the come up with more spin trying to make hardware that matches last years stuff from Intel. Keep the crap up Apple and you will make a switcher out of me. Dell and Alienware are looking like a better idea every day.

[legion]

I prefer by far the idea that Apple holds off. This is a server product, and Apple's reputation is riding on it. When you have a processor and chipset revision, it seems prudent to QA it very thoroughly, and not release until you're SURE any possible problems or weaknesses are ironed out.

Being a server product, Apple knows it has a longer lifecycle and it is therefore more important to take care of this stuff before release and not have to deal with any uncertainties...

Uncertainties are devastating in this market segment. It's cheaper to hold off...

That's a nice idea... but the business market segment is also keen on delivery. The "idea that Apple holds off" should have started with even the announcement of the G5 servers. They should not announce them until the servers are good to go. When you work with corporate budgets, your accounting dept and CFO finds IT expenses critical to fall into deadlines... if a server isn't delivered as promised (say a month later), that could have been money better spent. Do it too many times (say twice) and usually the company will loose the contract.

Let's take the big guns in the server market for example: IBM, Sun, HP/Compaq, and now Dell. When a new server is designed, it isn't announced to the corporate market until they have set shipping dates (big iron and mid-range) and sometimes it isn't even announced until they have them available for next day shipping (smaller servers) For instance, when IBM announced the AS/400, I was able to have one in a week from the announcement date. It was a simple process of calling up the IBM rep, having them fax a pricing sheet, writing up a PO, submitting it to our CFO, signed and accounting faxed it over to IBM, and IBM set a delivery date. That's how business likes it. If you don't have your product together, keep your mouth shut and fix it and when it's ready announce it and also don't give out vague delivery dates of 6 to 8 weeks or by "this date" or sooner. Can you imagine a big iron piece with vague delivery dates??? You have to plan for people to receive these machines and for node hookups... all of which costs money and takes planning.

Even with small businesses, say video editing with a few employees, what if you planned to take on a new larger scale project once your new G5Xserve showed up at the end of Feb. What do you do now with no machine to work on? You face the potential of a lengthened project timeline and possibly violating the terms of the contract with your client. I know what's happened in the past when Apple has screwed up delivery times... you end up subcontracting the work and paying the difference between your billing and your subcontractors if only to guarantee a future working relationship with your client. In the end, though, you just end up p.o. at Apple for not delivering.

If Apple is serious about the business market, it'll need to take some notes from real server providers.

[dex22]

The "idea that Apple holds off" should have started with even the announcement of the G5 servers. They should not announce them until the servers are good to go.

Doesn't that about sum it up? Everyone's assuming there are hardware problems. Delay does not equal problem. It's nice to see you look wider than the crowd :)

Apple's PR created this dilemma. I'm sure the hardware developers are quite unhappy about the situation and the degree of pre-announcement. It's all very Osbourne.

For those questioning the competency of Apple's hardware teams, go design and test something simple yourself, like an IDE interface or and ARM-based SBC. Once you have designed, tested and qualified it, you'll better understand the basic process, the types of faults that can occur, etc. Apple has a design process in place that works very well. Remember, it's far more complex than any PC desktop manufacturer because PC manufacturers have chipsets/core logic designed by experts. Apple has to design their own boards, their own supporting chipsets, their own case designs, etc.

Got a problem with your supporting chipset? Maybe if register X is set to such and such, and there is data traveling to X device while data is coming from Y device during a cache miss on the processor then there is a 1 in 100,000,000 chance that something unintended will occur. With a 2GHz processor that could happen every few seconds! Go round with a chip mod, get samples (6 weeks), build new samples, requalify, repeat.

These add a lot to cost and to time-to-market, but they also add that 'value' that makes people want an Apple in the first place.

[rjwill246]

Doesn't that about sum it up? Everyone's assuming there are hardware problems. Delay does not equal problem. It's nice to see you look wider than the crowd :)



Agree with your post. Apple does seem to hold the trump card on tardiness though. And it's almost a uniquely Apple phenomenon that we all get caught up in. Is there any of this type of breath-holding for a Dell, IBM or H-P product? Rhetorical question. The point is that Apple needs the hype and we just add to it. Probably better that Apple announces new product much closer to its real debut but then that means things like MacWorld and the WWDC are no longer the focus points of new products. The reality is that all the people who get upset over such inconsequential things like Apple's shipping date slippages have a little too much spare time on their hands and not given to much mature reflection. They could, with this spare time and a serious need to foster some adaptive skills, go and see "The Passion" where life's perspectives really come to light!

[bar italia]

They could, with this spare time and a serious need to foster some adaptive skills, go and see "The Passion" where life's perspectives really come to light!

:rolleyes:

[WM.]

Name one product Apple has announced in the past three years that has shipped on time, hasn't experienced shortages, and worked properly right out of the box.

iMac with USB 2.0 (as far as I know)
Apple Wireless Keyboard and Mouse
FCP 4/DVD SP 2/Shake 3
FCE 2
iPod mini (seems like the supply has been pretty good)
I think iLife '04 has gone pretty well, although there were some complaints about iDVD

Those are all within the last nine months or so, actually. I'm sure I could come up with more for the last three years.
No, you can't pick one. It has to meet all three criteria.

Yeah. That's what I thought.
That's a dangerous, dangerous game you're playing there...watch them absolutes...

Also, I agree with dex22. Apple has to internalize a lot more costs and risks than many other manufacturers. Perhaps IBM is in a similar or worse position (they even make their own CPUs, except for their lower-level systems, with Xeons and the like). But they charge a hefty premium, even compared to Apple, AFAIK, and they've been doing it a lot longer.

WM

[Naimfan]

Legion--

I agree with you completely that Apple has a lot to do wrt to shipping times etc. And I agree that business likes to be able to transmit a PO and get the box, although this is hardly how it is done in Fortune 100 companies (at least the ones I've worked for). For smaller companies, sure.

I disagree with you that they are the only ones guilty. HP and Dell in particular are terrible at this. When I worked for a telecom company, Cisco and Lucent were infamous for promising hardware and software WAY ahead of when it was actually available with the promised feature set. And Dell agreed to provide a server by a given date and they hadn't even prototyped the thing yet. Needless to say, that server order went elsewhere.

To a degree, this illustrates the tension between those who want Apple to roadmap products and those who want to know nothing until it is actually released. Tough for any company to deal with that!

Best,

Bob

[orangedv]

I can understand the comments about how hard it is to glue chips together and test them all out and get everything working, but surely Apple must be judged not on the difficulty of the task, but on how it's competitors handle similar tasks. On the face of it, they are ahead of Apple again.

This is seriously starting to resemble the farce of the G4 announcement; super computer performance that failed to update competitively and was then subsequently overtaken by PC manufacturers. Steve promised 3 ghz by this summer, and on my calender the start of summer is only ten weeks away and we are still seeing the debut G5's for sale.

I am putting off a huge design product waiting on a G5 update, if none is announced by the end of june then I must reconsider staying with this platform, much as I hate saying that.

[dex22]

I can understand the comments about how hard it is to glue chips together and test them all out and get everything working, but surely Apple must be judged not on the difficulty of the task, but on how it's competitors handle similar tasks.

That's the point. Their tasks are different. Only when you reach the level of companies like ServerWorks do you see similar design and QA environments. Even Dell and HP stick to 3rd party designed and QAd parts as far as possible.

[Golem]

Late april is being quoted for a January Order in Australia. Unfortunately we had allready found a buyer for the old 1Ghz xserve it replaces and he couldnt wait that long. So we are taking up the slack with a PC+cube combo.

[benfid]

If Apple released a product and then were shipping the next day, the customers who had purchased the superceded product would want a refund or a discount, so they cannot keep everyone happy

[WM.]

To a degree, this illustrates the tension between those who want Apple to roadmap products and those who want to know nothing until it is actually released. Tough for any company to deal with that!
Excellent point; I never thought of it that way. Considering that Apple can't give us accurate ship dates 1-2 months out, I don't think it's reasonable for roadmap advocates to expect them a full year out! Maybe if you're willing to deal with a "±3 months" kind of disclaimer on everything, Apple could give you a roadmap, but even with the kind of limited info that leaks out to the rumor sites I don't think we're doing much worse. Probably the biggest improvement an official roadmap could provide would be confirmation that they actually are working on a certain product (e.g. a G6 based on the 975/980/whatever), rather than when that product will ship.

WM

[WM.]

Steve promised 3 ghz by this summer, and on my calender the start of summer is only ten weeks away and we are still seeing the debut G5's for sale.
Steve's initial "promise" (at WWDC) was kind of ambiguous, but by the time the G5s actually started to ship, Apple had clarified that to "3 GHz by the end of summer". Which is more like 25 weeks away.

WM

[HiRez]

Steve's initial "promise" (at WWDC) was kind of ambiguous, but by the time the G5s actually started to ship, Apple had clarified that to "3 GHz by the end of summer". Which is more like 25 weeks away.I think he actually said "within a year" so I'm not sure it's so ambiguous, although since they moved WWDC back a few weeks this year it's unlikely to be actually within a year. However, I can't remember if he actually said the chips would be shipping at 3 GHz or if the PowerMacs would be shipping at 3 GHz, which is a big difference. Clearly they are having a few issues at the moment with the transition to the new chips, but there's plenty of time to work that out by August/September (shipping date). I imagine they'd want to make the educational buyers if possible before then. Anyway, I think 3 GHz is still very doable in that timeframe, even if the interim products are lagging.

[spinko]

...When a new server is designed, it isn't announced to the corporate market until they have set shipping dates (big iron and mid-range) and sometimes it isn't even announced until they have them available for next day shipping (smaller servers)....

that's exactly the way it should be, not only for servers but also for Desktops and Portables...

[suzerain]

regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.

I am happy to know that I own both a BMW and Mercedes computer!


This is the stupidest analogy ever. :rolleyes: It is basically apologism for Apple's marketing mistakes. Look, BMW and Mercedes and Ford all use the same gas, whereas computers are utterly useless without software.

If Macs and Windows machines all used the same software, then your analogy wouold work, but the problem with smaller market share is that you become less and less of a priority for software developers.

I have been running a Mac games site for 5 years, and anyone who thinks having BMW's market share in the computer industry is a good thing should just look at game release dates. You can also look at any specialized software, like P.O.S. systems, niche databases and productivity tools, the list goes on and on. Now in most cases, what software we have is of very good quality, and if you argued that we have most of what the average person needs, you would be right.

But to suggest that Apple shouldn't have a market share larger than 2% is...well...ludicrous.

You think maybe if Apple's market share was 10%, we'd all be seeing games and niche productivity apps faster? You bet your ass we would.

I think what a lot of people here are saying is that Apple continually shoots itself in the foot by doing this. The tech industry moves very fast...having products unavailable is just a bad idea. In my opinion, anyway, they'd have been better off announcing the XServes in mid-March if they weren't planning on shipping till the end of March.

When I see something sexy, I want to take it home...not fill out a Web form online and wait 3 months.

[killmoms]

This is the stupidest analogy ever. :rolleyes: It is basically apologism for Apple's marketing mistakes. Look, BMW and Mercedes and Ford all use the same gas, whereas [SNIP] take it home...not fill out a Web form online and wait 3 months.

Yes, you've posted this several times in several places. The original guy was shot down a page ago; get with the program and stop derailing the thread.

It's a shame that Apple's having such difficulty with shipping things "on time," but it's a tough battle to be played. For years now they've been accustomed to FAR less demand than they're experiencing now, and I'm sure the company has been shaped to reflect that. If they start experiencing some significant growth (like it seems they might, with all this interest), I'm sure they'll streamline again to deal. This sort of thing isn't a shift you can make overnight.

--Cless

[Wendy_Rebecca]

regarding all of the comments on Apple's small percentage market share:

Apple has a higher percentage market share in the computer industry that BMW or Mercedes do in the automotive industry.


So What?

BMW and Mercedes use the same gas as a Chevy, run on the same roads, and their owners can buy parts at the same auto store.

If Macs were cars, only 2% of the gas stations would have gas that would work with your Mac, and you could only drive on 2% of the roads.

Stop with the auto analogies. They don't work.

[MikeAtari]

You are right, I wonder what they are doing with all those millions because it doesnt look like they spend a nickel on getting it right. Every Revision A product seems to have lots of problems and everyone buying them become Beta testers for Apple. I still think they have a bunch of clowns running the hardware division. They dont have a clue why the sales suck compared to any Pc company. Heck the likes of Acer are selling more. Now we get to hear more Bmw,Mercedes crap etc. I wonder why those Fords or rather Wintels are still matching dual G5 performance. I think i just figured it out those dollars are lining Jobs & Ives pockets while the come up with more spin trying to make hardware that matches last years stuff from Intel. Keep the crap up Apple and you will make a switcher out of me. Dell and Alienware are looking like a better idea every day.

Look if we really wanted Microsoft/Dell/Gateway/HP quality we wouldn't be reading this forum. We want APPLE Quality. So, we will just have to renew our Chill Pill prescriptions.

[iPC]

That's a nice idea... but the business market segment is also keen on delivery. The "idea that Apple holds off" should have started with even the announcement of the G5 servers. They should not announce them until the servers are good to go. When you work with corporate budgets, your accounting dept and CFO finds IT expenses critical to fall into deadlines... if a server isn't delivered as promised (say a month later), that could have been money better spent. Do it too many times (say twice) and usually the company will loose the contract.

Let's take the big guns in the server market for example: IBM, Sun, HP/Compaq, and now Dell. When a new server is designed, it isn't announced to the corporate market until they have set shipping dates (big iron and mid-range) and sometimes it isn't even announced until they have them available for next day shipping (smaller servers) For instance, when IBM announced the AS/400, I was able to have one in a week from the announcement date. It was a simple process of calling up the IBM rep, having them fax a pricing sheet, writing up a PO, submitting it to our CFO, signed and accounting faxed it over to IBM, and IBM set a delivery date. That's how business likes it. If you don't have your product together, keep your mouth shut and fix it and when it's ready announce it and also don't give out vague delivery dates of 6 to 8 weeks or by "this date" or sooner. Can you imagine a big iron piece with vague delivery dates??? You have to plan for people to receive these machines and for node hookups... all of which costs money and takes planning.

Even with small businesses, say video editing with a few employees, what if you planned to take on a new larger scale project once your new G5Xserve showed up at the end of Feb. What do you do now with no machine to work on? You face the potential of a lengthened project timeline and possibly violating the terms of the contract with your client. I know what's happened in the past when Apple has screwed up delivery times... you end up subcontracting the work and paying the difference between your billing and your subcontractors if only to guarantee a future working relationship with your client. In the end, though, you just end up p.o. at Apple for not delivering.

If Apple is serious about the business market, it'll need to take some notes from real server providers.
Spot on! The server market is a bear to deal with. Overnight orders of hardware that must be installed by 9am, five 9's of reliability, etc. My guess is Apple is having issues with the power supplies (some are bad in the PM, and you can't have that in the XServe).

It doesn't really matter though, Apple's reputation in the server market is that of overpriced underperforming toys.

[Opteron]

think maybe if Apple's market share was 10%, we'd all be seeing games and niche productivity apps faster? You bet your ass we would.

I think what a lot of people here are saying is that Apple continually shoots itself in the foot by doing this. The tech industry moves very fast...having products unavailable is just a bad idea. In my opinion, anyway, they'd have been better off announcing the XServes in mid-March if they weren't planning on shipping till the end of March.

When I see something sexy, I want to take it home...not fill out a Web form online and wait 3 months.

Dam right. At most I wan't to wait no more than 5 working days to recieve goods that are advertised. Any longer and I start asking for a discount, or take my business elsewhere.

with apple's <5% market share your right software developers are beginning not to bother. Even the bulk of Multimedia, web, audio and video are done on PC's, though many on this site will try to perswade you otherwise. It's just fact that when >95% of the computing industry are using x86 machines, that cost less, are more avaliable and have a larger software base that, that is where most of the work is going to be carried out.

Not to mention that PC's $ for $ are faster. I awate scores of an Xserve vs Dual Opteron benchmark, with the same configuration. My money's on the Opteron based system. Not to mention that they are avaliable in large numbers as I type this and have been for quite some time.

[MadMan]

Well, it's happening!

Check my order this morning and sure enough it got bumped back :(

BUT, it's been pushed back all the way until 4/29 :mad:

That would mean a 4 month delay if doesn't ship before then!!!

Not a good sign, even for updated PM G5's.

Wonder if it's IBM have bigger problems pumping out at 90nm or Apple is really stuck here? :confused:

Definitely NOT :cool:

MM

[MikeAtari]

Well, it's happening!

Check my order this morning and sure enough it got bumped back :(

BUT, it's been pushed back all the way until 4/29 :mad:

That would mean a 4 month delay if doesn't ship before then!!!

Not a good sign, even for updated PM G5's.

Wonder if it's IBM have bigger problems pumping out at 90nm or Apple is really stuck here? :confused:

Definitely NOT :cool:

MM


Your machine is probably going to PIXAR.

[MadMan]

Your machine is probably going to PIXAR.

Or to VT for the "New & Improved" Big Mac ;)

Either way, it's still one hell of a delay!

MM