Nikon lens advice for night photography

[SOLLERBOY]

Hi, I am relatively new to DSLR photography (6 months or so). I own a D40 with 18-55mm kit lens and am starting to fell hindered.(settings are a pain to change and lens isn't everything I need)

I am currently taking Photography A level and am in the middle of a night project. I will be traveling to New York City in about 4 weeks and need something nippy to take with me. It needs to be fast and good at taking handheld night shots as both the empire state and rockerfeller centre won't allow tri-pods.

I know I am restricted by the lack of Af motor in the D40 so would a camera upgrade to say the D90 be more plausible than getting a lens?

any advice/suggestions/tips will be greatly appreciated.

[rogersmj]

I recently went through the same thought process and decided I'm going to sell my D40 shortly and get a D90. Either you spend ~$440 on the 50mm f/1.4 AF-S that will work with the D40 (or ~$350 for the 30mm Sigma), or you can spend a little more now (after selling your D40) and get a D90 which will work with pretty much any lens you want to buy, ever. Lots of the AF-D lenses are less expensive than their AF-S counterparts. Plus, the D90 is a heck of a lot more camera with a newer generation sensor than the D40. If you're able to spend the money, I'd do it because it will really open up your options for glass and work out better in the long run.

[Consultant]

50mm f/1.4 or f1.8 if you have a smaller budget.

There is a 35mm f/2D

Perhaps a monopod?

[SOLLERBOY]

50mm f/1.4 or f1.8 if you have a smaller budget.

There is a 35mm f/2D

Perhaps a monopod?

the 50mm's dont autofocus with the d40 do they? just the £300 one.

[rogersmj]

the 50mm's dont autofocus with the d40 do they? just the £300 one.

No, they don't. Only the $440 one I mentioned autofocuses on the D40 -- the 50mm AF-S f/1.4.

I'm personally getting the D90 and the 50mm f/1.8 AF-D, which is an extremely sharp lens and can be had for $100.

[SOLLERBOY]

No, they don't. Only the $440 one I mentioned autofocuses on the D40 -- the 50mm AF-S f/1.4.

I'm personally getting the D90 and the 50mm f/1.8 AF-D, which is an extremely sharp lens and can be had for $100.

would that be suitable for hand held night photo's?

[SOLLERBOY]

I recently went through the same thought process and decided I'm going to sell my D40 shortly and get a D90. Either you spend ~$440 on the 50mm f/1.4 AF-S that will work with the D40 (or ~$350 for the 30mm Sigma), or you can spend a little more now (after selling your D40) and get a D90 which will work with pretty much any lens you want to buy, ever. Lots of the AF-D lenses are less expensive than their AF-S counterparts. Plus, the D90 is a heck of a lot more camera with a newer generation sensor than the D40. If you're able to spend the money, I'd do it because it will really open up your options for glass and work out better in the long run.

THis is what I will probably end up doing but I have only one problem. I have enough for a camera but then not a lens. Atm I'm thinking of going for the 50mm af s and sell that when I have used it in new york, then get the d90. I really need the NY shots to come out good so does anyone know if this lens will be suitable and if it will be suitable for midnight handheld photography?????

[svndmvn]

THis is what I will probably end up doing but I have only one problem. I have enough for a camera but then not a lens. Atm I'm thinking of going for the 50mm af s and sell that when I have used it in new york, then get the d90. I really need the NY shots to come out good so does anyone know if this lens will be suitable and if it will be suitable for midnight handheld photography?????

I flickered D90 hand held 50 night shots and it looks like it would do. I don't know about the D40, I don't think the pictures would be too bad.
I looked up the 30mm 1.4, it also looks like a great lens.

[SOLLERBOY]

I flickered D90 hand held 50 night shots and it looks like it would do. I don't know about the D40, I don't think the pictures would be too bad.
I looked up the 30mm 1.4, it also looks like a great lens.

thanks. I'll take a look myself. I think 30mm may be better for what I need it for.

[svndmvn]

thanks. I'll take a look myself. I think 30mm may be better for what I need it for.

my pleasure, it's a bit pricier but looks like it's a lot better and since you're not selling the D40/buying the D90 right now..could be a possibility. I'll go look for some D40+30mm on flicker myself.

[SOLLERBOY]

after looking at some NY stuff taken with d40's and comparing them with d90's on flickr, the difference seems to be enormous. Maybe I will get a d90 after all.

[Milessio]

You can probably use a small tripod e.g. Ultrapod resting on the floor, handrail, balustrade or braced against a wall, lamp post etc. Just remember to use the 2s timer though.

As you will be spending time to compose & perfect your shots, do you really need a/f?

I've got the 50mm 1.8 & it's great (though I have a D300). If you move up to a more expensive camera, you'll then get the convenience of the a/f.

(My brother's also doing the same course & has finished the night project. He used a 35mm film camera without a/f (better quality).)

[Qianlong]

I think adorama in NYC also does rentals, so maybe you could rent a lens instead of buying one.

[numbersyx]

after looking at some NY stuff taken with d40's and comparing them with d90's on flickr, the difference seems to be enormous. Maybe I will get a d90 after all.

Much better camera even for the increased price and you get the AF in the camera. Take a wide angle lens if you can get one (Sigma is great value) as NYC seems to be a perfect spot for the wide angles...

[jaseone]

D90 has much better high ISO capabilities than the D40 so is better than night, in fact it's performance on paper is better than the pro level D300 in regards to high ISO.

I would suggest picking up a D90 along with a Nikkor 50mm 1.8 (about $85 on Amazon), if you can afford the kit with the 18-105 lens is a good deal, you would just be lacking a telephoto lens with that combination.

[namethisfile]

the nikon fifties (1.8D, 1.4D & 1.4G) are good fast lenses for night photography. there is also the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens which i am putting in my short list since the focal length is closer to 50mm in dx-format cameras like the d90 and d40.

[jaseone]

the nikon fifties (1.8D, 1.4D & 1.4G) are good fast lenses for night photography. there is also the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens which i am putting in my short list since the focal length is closer to 50mm in dx-format cameras like the d90 and d40.

Gotta be careful with the D40 though as it doesn't have an auto focus model on the body so at least the 50 1.8 would need to be manually focused, I think the same goes for the 1.4D so you would need the 1.4G for auto focusing on the D40, which means extra $$$.

[hogfaninga]

I have used the 50mm 1.8 on both a D90 and now my D300 and it works awesome for night photography especially when you consider the price for it. If this is something you think you will be doing a lot of I would recommend you get the 50mm 1.8 ($100) and the D90 (great camera).

Scratch that. Nikon has raised their prices almost everywhere (U.S. beginning Feb. 1st), Europe has mostly already been hit, Australia, etc.. Some prices have gone up by 10-15%. The D90 I think has been hit. I just looked at it from B&H's website and Adorama's. B&H is saying out of stock and it will be $899 when they have it again. Same price at Adorama. The price a week ago was about $850. I read on one of the Nikon boards that the D90 went up about $125USD's in Britain. That is something to think about. Good news for people wanting to buy the D300 is that prices are probably going to drop some. Like another poster said, you can rent the equipment from Adorama or B&H when you are in NYC.

Good luck with your decision.

[namethisfile]

Gotta be careful with the D40 though as it doesn't have an auto focus model on the body so at least the 50 1.8 would need to be manually focused, I think the same goes for the 1.4D so you would need the 1.4G for auto focusing on the D40, which means extra $$$.

that's true. you have fewer choices (and more expensive ones) with the d40 and the two other entry level nikons (d40x and d60) when it comes to prime lenses that can autofocus. in fact, you have 3 choices, to be exact: the sigma 30mm and 50mm 1.4 lenses and nikon's new 50mm 1.4G AF-S lens 9 (to my knowledge at least).

i have the nikon 50mm 1.4d and it's a great fast and light lens. my only qualm with it is that it's a bit long in dx-format cameras so it's really 70mm, which is a little unnatural, for me. 50mm is supposedly a more natural focal length and best represents the field of vision that humans see with our own set of "lenses." so, you will have to keep that in mind. especially, shooting in NYC where you don't really have that much room either on the streets and especially indoors to maneuver around. what i end up doing a lot with my 50mm lens on the d90 is stepping back and stepping back and stepping back from my subjects. or think in advance a lot more than i need to since i have less room to work with in framing whatever the subject may be. so, i am keeping an eye out for the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens as a future purchase. the sigma 30mm, to me, addresses the crop factor in dx-format cameras and is supposedly a good fairly inexpensive lens (around $380) from what i hear.

[jaseone]

i am keeping an eye out for the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens as a future purchase. the sigma 30mm, to me, addresses the crop factor in dx-format cameras and is supposedly a good fairly inexpensive lens (around $380) from what i hear.

I think I am leaning more towards the "dirty thirty" myself as my first prime lens, the 50 1.4G sure looks like a nice lens but I think the Sigma 30 would be better for me on my D90 (DX).

[numbersyx]

I have used the 50mm 1.8 on both a D90 and now my D300 and it works awesome for night photography especially when you consider the price for it. If this is something you think you will be doing a lot of I would recommend you get the 50mm 1.8 ($100) and the D90 (great camera).

Scratch that. Nikon has raised their prices almost everywhere (U.S. beginning Feb. 1st), Europe has mostly already been hit, Australia, etc.. Some prices have gone up by 10-15%. The D90 I think has been hit. I just looked at it from B&H's website and Adorama's. B&H is saying out of stock and it will be $899 when they have it again. Same price at Adorama. The price a week ago was about $850. I read on one of the Nikon boards that the D90 went up about $125USD's in Britain. That is something to think about. Good news for people wanting to buy the D300 is that prices are probably going to drop some. Like another poster said, you can rent the equipment from Adorama or B&H when you are in NYC.

Good luck with your decision.

Strange that Nikon would do this in a time when most people are going to be reluctant to open their wallet. Let's see what happens with these prices...

[hector]

both the empire state and rockerfeller centre won't allow tri-pods.


Doesn't have to be a problem... not saying you shouldn't upgrade but I took this off the Top of the Rock with a D40 and kit lens balanced precariously on my mobile phone and my wallet.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2737759419_02f3bb712e.jpg?v=0 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chthomson/2737759419/)

Maybe think about a Gorillapod? I have been thinking about getting one and wish I had taken one with me to NYC in the summer

[SOLLERBOY]

Doesn't have to be a problem... not saying you shouldn't upgrade but I took this off the Top of the Rock with a D40 and kit lens balanced precariously on my mobile phone and my wallet.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2195/2737759419_02f3bb712e.jpg?v=0 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chthomson/2737759419/)

Maybe think about a Gorillapod? I have been thinking about getting one and wish I had taken one with me to NYC in the summer

This is just what I needed, some first hand experience. Thanks!!

[Gold89]

Get a gorillapod ;) It's perfect for those night shots where you don't have time to use, or can't carry, a tripod.

[SOLLERBOY]

I have been trying to get hold of the 50mm for some time but it is out of stock everywhere. I did stumble across this which is more expensive but may be better?? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131063-USA/Nikon_1922_Wide_Angle_AF_Nikkor.html#reviews

does anyone know where i might be able to get either of these from quickly in the uk?

Edit : jessops are out of stock on the 50mm but have plenty of stock of the 28mm. is this a good lens??

[rogersmj]

I have been trying to get hold of the 50mm for some time but it is out of stock everywhere. I did stumble across this which is more expensive but may be better?? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131063-USA/Nikon_1922_Wide_Angle_AF_Nikkor.html#reviews

does anyone know where i might be able to get either of these from quickly in the uk?

Edit : jessops are out of stock on the 50mm but have plenty of stock of the 28mm. is this a good lens??

It's not necessarily better...it's a wider angle, that's for sure, but it's slower at f/2.8 -- and it won't autofocus on your D40. Which 50mm are you talking about? There's three or four that have been discussed here, three f/1.4 and one f/1.8. Only the Sigma HSM and the Nikon AF-S will autofocus on your D40.

[SOLLERBOY]

It's not necessarily better...it's a wider angle, that's for sure, but it's slower at f/2.8 -- and it won't autofocus on your D40. Which 50mm are you talking about? There's three or four that have been discussed here, three f/1.4 and one f/1.8. Only the Sigma HSM and the Nikon AF-S will autofocus on your D40.

the f1.8 £89.

[Vogue Harper]

As you will be spending time to compose & perfect your shots, do you really need a/f?

I would agree with this and possibly go further by saying that for night photography, it's probably a better idea to manually focus. Depending on the lens, the auto focus will get confused figuring out what you want to focus on in the dark. That said, with a small enough aperture to get large depth of field it will be fine to auto focus but then having a smaller aperture requires a longer shutter speed which might be beyond the realms of hand holding and require setting the camera down somewhere.

A Gorillapod (although make sure you get the big SLR Zoom version) will probably be okay for places which don't allow tripods - it looks so bizarre most people would not know what it was anyway.

[leighonigar]

That 28mm is not a great lens. I would not recommend it. The 50mm is better optically, and it's faster, cheaper. If you want a wider angle (i.e. a normal on crop) the 35mm f/2 is decent, but costs more. Like the 50mm f/1.8 the 28 and 35mms will not focus on the D40.

[Milessio]

For some options with English costs for the 50mm f1.8 head over to: http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod132.html

At least some of them seem to have the lens in stock.

Security staff are only worried about full sized tripods blocking corridors etc & not that they have three legs, so in my experience a mini tripod of whatever form won't worry them.

[Consultant]

ISo 1600, 50mm f1.4 works for me even on older digital cameras.

You might have to shoot raw for better quality files.

Learn how to hand hold and mimimize shake.

[SOLLERBOY]

I still can't find the 50mm in stock anywhere. IS this a good lens?

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Accessories/Camera%20Accessories/Lenses/products/Nikon/35mm%20f2%20AF%20D-25460/Show.html

[leighonigar]

I still can't find the 50mm in stock anywhere. IS this a good lens?

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Accessories/Camera%20Accessories/Lenses/products/Nikon/35mm%20f2%20AF%20D-25460/Show.html

The 35mm f/2 is a truly excellent lens, but it will not autofocus with the D40. I'm not sure where you got to with deciding which body you would have. Did you decide against the sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM? I know optically it won't be as good as the 35mm f/2 but it is faster, and in most fields I can't remember when I looked at a photo and thought 'oh, what a shame, it's not sharp in the corners, the photo's hopeless therefore' (though, this seems to be contradicting what I said about the 28mm not being good..!). http://www.cameraworld.co.uk/ViewProdDetails.asp?prod_code=30mm&Prod_name=Sigma+30mm+f%2F1%2E4+EX+DC+HSM&CAT_CODE=2&SUBCAT_CODE=33 have it for £264. Incidentally they have the 35mm for a bit less than Jessops too.

[Analog Kid]

Since the buildings don't move, a good VR lens is another option. I've got the 18-200VR on my D80, and if I open it up wide and flip on the VR it's remarkably good in low light. VR gives you about a 4 stop advantage. The other benefit is that you can win back your depth of field with the smaller aperture.

Another recommendation is put the shutter on continuous and just take as many shots as you can-- then sort through them and find the lucky ones.

You can probably use a small tripod e.g. Ultrapod resting on the floor, handrail, balustrade or braced against a wall, lamp post etc. Just remember to use the 2s timer though.

Agreed-- anything you can brace against will help. Even hand held, if you're leaning against something you'll do better. If you do find a way to stabilize it, that 2s timer suggestion will make sure you don't blur it by pushing the shutter button.

the nikon fifties (1.8D, 1.4D & 1.4G) are good fast lenses for night photography. there is also the sigma 30mm 1.4 lens which i am putting in my short list since the focal length is closer to 50mm in dx-format cameras like the d90 and d40.

I also have the Sigma 30mm 1.4. It's not a bad lens, but there have been a lot of complaints that quality isn't consistent from unit to unit.

[SOLLERBOY]

Since the buildings don't move, a good VR lens is another option. I've got the 18-200VR on my D80, and if I open it up wide and flip on the VR it's remarkably good in low light. VR gives you about a 4 stop advantage. The other benefit is that you can win back your depth of field with the smaller aperture.

Another recommendation is put the shutter on continuous and just take as many shots as you can-- then sort through them and find the lucky ones.



Agreed-- anything you can brace against will help. Even hand held, if you're leaning against something you'll do better. If you do find a way to stabilize it, that 2s timer suggestion will make sure you don't blur it by pushing the shutter button.



I also have the Sigma 30mm 1.4. It's not a bad lens, but there have been a lot of complaints that quality isn't consistent from unit to unit.


Thanks for the advice. I have been eyeing up the 18-200 for a while. The only thing stopping me from buying is the thought that a d90 is not much more.

[leighonigar]

What exactly is it about the D40 which you don't appreciate? Presumably you'd have to use the D90 with the 18-55. Hardly a panacea.

[SOLLERBOY]

What exactly is it about the D40 which you don't appreciate? Presumably you'd have to use the D90 with the 18-55. Hardly a panacea.

I love the d40 don't get me wrong but it just feels limiting. I need a good all rounder for my course and something with better menus. I still love the d40 and will probably end up keeping it.

[namethisfile]

I would agree with this and possibly go further by saying that for night photography, it's probably a better idea to manually focus. Depending on the lens, the auto focus will get confused figuring out what you want to focus on in the dark. That said, with a small enough aperture to get large depth of field it will be fine to auto focus but then having a smaller aperture requires a longer shutter speed which might be beyond the realms of hand holding and require setting the camera down somewhere.

A Gorillapod (although make sure you get the big SLR Zoom version) will probably be okay for places which don't allow tripods - it looks so bizarre most people would not know what it was anyway.


you're right. manual focusing is the way to go. but, this also has limitations when you have the lens wide-open at night. it's difficult to judge whether or not the subject is in focus thru the viewfinder and even when the camera blinks that green dot - it doesn't necessarily mean it is focused, as well. i have read a little bit about focus-screens and i might need to get one that is appropriate for my lens (a nikkor 50mm 1.4). anyway, i have devised a solution in the meantime, called bracket-focusing. i don't even know if this a real photo term. but, it seems feasible especially with digital's mass storage capability. so, i tried it one night at a bar that was practically candle lit. auto-focusing in this situation would have been hopeless. the method, if there is one, is to use yourself as an autofocus machine. your fingertips, to be exact. you begin by judging where the subject is distance wise and then from there - cradle the focus ring and rock it in itsy-bitsy increments, while, at the same time snapping pictures at each one. hopefully, the result is that you have covered all the ground, distance-wise, of your subject and that one photo out of all the photos you snapped is in focus. after that, delete, delete, delete.... and start all over again.

[uMac]

First of all, unless your buying a Non-DX lens or Camera, I would suggest you save your money, Nikon is going towards FX and DX will still work (one assumes indefinitely) but your not going to get the full value out of it. Where as most film lens should work wonderfully on a FX camera (again not as good as a FX lens, but for 99.999% of people they won't notice).

That said for Night Photography, unless your subject is close enough to the Camera for the AF support light to illuminate them or its bright enough for the camera to get a lock, having a AF lens is a little pointless.

If you want a walk around night-time lens, speed is key. F/1.2 is the fastest and by far the most expensive. Its also quite hard to focus, took me about 6 months before I could do it quickly & reliably.

Nikon offered three f/1.2 lens, the first is the 58mm Noct-Nikkor (http://www.noct-nikkor.com), which is specifically for noctural photography, the 55mm f/1.2 or the 50mm f/1.2 (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Camera-Lenses/1435/NIKKOR-50mm-f%252F1.2.html). Now they are all fast and manual focus, but the 50mm or 55mm can be purchased used in your price range.

As you get more specialized lenses the cost can creep up on you, since your D40 will make many autofocus lens manual on that camera, it may be too your advantage to buy a used f/1.2 lens if its in good condition.

That all said, I've seen a D700 do some amazing work in very dark conditions & f/2.8, DSLRs are improving their ISO and grain reduction by leaps and bounds. So in the future fast lenses may not nessarily be needed; who knows!

*** Note: I know there is faster lenses than f/1.2, but in all seriousness they won't meet the OP needs.

[IndaPooper]

I don't understand why some people are talking about the 50mm being too long and maybe not suitable for night photography. Bull.

I do tons of low light shots both indoors and around the city and the boy oh boy the 50mm 1.4 is a dream if you like short DOF. I was using a 16-85 zoom prior to my 50 and it couldn't come close to producing the images I'm making now.

Also, I find the 50 a great focal length for indoors. Some guy mentions having to back up too much. Huh???? I snap pictures in my tiny kitchen no problem. for walkaround, I'd actually prefer an 85. I hate when people stare like deer into the headlights. My D80 is noticeable enough as it is, so I'd like some distance. 50 would be too short for this, IMO, but is sweet for everything else if you like reduced DOF.

Good luck!

[SOLLERBOY]

I eventually plumped for the 50mm 1.4 , It was amazing in new york and was a great choice of lens. I also recently bought the d90 which is equally as good.

[88888888]

how about the 35mm af-s f/1.8?

[FX120]

The trick is not to try and hand hold. You'll want to stop down to at least f/8 so point sources look better, and it will be easier to focus.

http://anodizedblue.net/photos/cityatnight-1.jpg

This was done through a window on the 40th floor of a building, camera resting on a sill and propped up with the strap.

50mm f/1.4 @ F8, 15 seconds, ISO200

[sangosimo]

on a crop body 50mm is pretty long. especially on the canon side. I would much rather have sigma 30mm f/1.4.

[georgemann]

OK first off, I own a D40, D80 and D300 and a lot of lenses.

1. Scenic night photography does not require fast lenses (it does require a tripod or clamp of some sort though, to get really good images with more than the brightest lights showing up).

2. The D40 does have it's faults, but low light level quality is not one of them. Bracket your image exposures and bracket your ISO settings.

3. Don't be afraid to test out the extreme ISO settings when it is absolutely impossible to use a tripod or clamp of some sort. The D40 performs really well at the high ISO end.

4. Find a gorilla pod, you may be able to get away with clamping it on a railing without the tripod police getting on your case.

5. All lenses are good for night photography, it all depends on what you are shooting, not everyone is interested in shooting panoramas.

George