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MacRumors
Nov 23, 2001, 02:45 AM
MacEdition (http://www.macedition.com/nmr/nmr_20011119.php) posted an article about a Takeover rumor... this time of Adobe...

The suspects? Microsoft or Apple...

An Apple acquisition of Adobe could jump-start the latter’s laggardly efforts at Mac OS*X development and shore up Apple’s reputation as a mecca of desktop graphics and multimedia.

joop heij
Nov 23, 2001, 05:32 AM
If Microsoft takes over Adobe, then Apple should buy Macromedia.

jefhatfield
Nov 23, 2001, 07:45 AM
why would microsoft go in for such a big move right now that the tide is turning against them now in the anti trust fiasco with uncle sam

only a few months ago, it looked really rosy for microsoft and that they would get off the hook easy

well appeal this and appeal that, give and inch take and inch...this brawl with the software giant vs. the govt. will not go away anytime soon...it reminds me of the enormity of the beatles breaking up and divving up the spoils

i am a beatles fan and i thought the legal wranglings of the three remaining beatles and yoko ono were settled then i hear more and more negative stuff... and then there was the michael jackson thing and when the surviving beatles could have united their front, but it was the same old backbiting that probably killed the band in the first place

if microsoft goes against common sense and does make a bold move by actually buying a big portion of adobe or outright taking it over, then the suggestion that apple buy macromedia, assuming its for sale, sounds good in theory, and may even be possible if the price is right, but playing a dollar vs. dollar spending war with microsoft on anything else would bankrupt apple before bg would even exhaust his sunday petty cash play money for his toy mansion in the woods...the guy was once worth 90 bil but still is around 57 bil give or take a few billion dollars

where macromedia is great, it appears adobe is still the king...but of course the software field could change on a dime here in the valley so who knows what could happen in the long run?

graphic designer friends of mine buy adobe and marcromedia stuff both and some don't like to do without quark

also, how would ms owning adobe really hurt the market? it would be in bg's interest to keep adobe selling good product and in reality, bg would not do anything to hurt apple since he sells a gazillion office:macs to mac users

of course this site, as accurate as it has been in the past, is still a rumors board...and sometimes a venting board

Sayer
Nov 23, 2001, 09:12 AM
Companies in real trouble usually have warning signs, such as sudden divestments or cancellations of big products. Adobe cancelled on an expo in a time when the entire industry was in a downturn and then of course Sept. 11 happened. If it had happened anywhere else maybe it wouldn't have had such an impact. Obviously England would not be so whiney about things if Parliment and whatnot was blown up by Virgin Airlines planes but they still are holding a MacExpo on their own.

But I digress...

Haven't seen that any really bad signs at Adobe yet. They keep selling their stable of products and are busy retooling them for Mac OS X.

And don't forget that as big as Adobe is they owe a lot to Apple Computer for getting started (Steve Jobs specifically). Technically so does Microsoft.

If anyone knew the truth about how Apple helped get a lot of tech companies going people would probably not denigrate Apple so much (well, anyone except SlashDorks).

That may count towards some amount of gravitas at Adobe, but with Warnock out who knows.

Its a Dog eat Dog world in the tech biz. We shall see how it turns out. BTW Adobe is rather large with its current market cap for anyone except Microsoft to buy them outright.

Doraemon
Nov 23, 2001, 10:27 AM
If one of the two (MS or Apple), I think it's much more likely that it's Apple. Adobe's products would perfectly fit into Apple digital hub strategy. Remember the rumors of 'iPicture'. It was rumored that it's some sort of low-end Photoshop. If Apple would buy Adobe, it would be possible that iPicture is the free "i" software that ships with every Mac and Photoshop the professional app (like FinalCutPro).

Anyway, I doubt that either Apple or Microsoft are going to buy Adobe.

Just my 2¢.

mymemory
Nov 23, 2001, 11:48 AM
If Apple gets Adobe for instance, Apple will lost most of the Macromedia support and that is a big chunc of the market.

Just think about this, the softwares (like iTunes) tha Apple are producing lately, are made to satisfy some needs of the market, but Apple won't build a killer aplication for video or audio just because it will loose the support from companies like Mark of the Unicorn, Avid, Digidesign, etc. Apple is producing Aplication in the shareware level and may be a bit upper.

Just look that Apple is building aplications and peripherals that doesn't put in risk the other providers. Un less something really big is going on. Microsoft can absorb another company just because they have 99% of the market. On the other hand Apple is taking its products to a more popular level as soon as they can and that mean to be very neutral about their software/hardware providers.

This is a manner of marketing.

hbrake
Nov 23, 2001, 11:55 AM
First - MYMEMORY - think you need to get a spell check program and a typing program. Next, this would be an excellent move for Apple. If Microsoft took over Adobe - then Adobe software would be ridden with security and software flaws just like most of the Microsoft products. Don't get me wrong, I use Microsoft Office - primarily because it's the standard - not because of my love of Microsoft.

I would back Apple working to take over Adobe and give the PC Market some much needed competition. There is life after WINDOWS!

Stutter
Nov 23, 2001, 12:13 PM
H_h_h_hey hbrake. Did it ever occur to you that some people in this world don't speak English as a first language. Or maybe you'd prefer it if mymemory wrote his whole comment in Spanish, just as long as the spelling and grammar were correct. Sheesh. Was fuer ein Arschloch...

PS ADBE's Mkt Cap is ca. $1 billion more than AAPL. Even with their $4 billion in cash, that's a lot for AAPL to swallow.

Autechre
Nov 23, 2001, 01:04 PM
Was für ein Arschloch is the right thing to say.Some people are from Spain,some from Venezuela,I am from Germany.Respect it that some do not spell correctly.Or do you speak german,spanish,dutch and other languages fluently??

SPG
Nov 23, 2001, 01:40 PM
Why buy when you can make it better yourself?
Premiere has been spanked by Final Cut Pro. Premiere has almost no new users, just people who already learned Premiere and don't feel like learning something new.
iPhoto will put a dent in Photoshop sales to the basic home user. (Of course it won't affect pro sales)

There're some serious questions to what Apple would really get out of the deal if in fact it were a possibility which I highly doubt it is.

Foocha
Nov 23, 2001, 04:53 PM
Sayer - what are you talking about??! If the UK had been attacked in the way the US has been then I think we would be devastated, and I think it's incredibly thoughtless and crass to describe American reaction as "whiney." You should be ashamed of yourself.

I doubt Apple could afford to buy Adobe, and I doubt Microsoft would be interested.

Also, Apple has not always been a friend to Adobe - consider when they sold Adobe out on Postscript in favour of doing a deal on Truetype with Microsoft. Hmmm - I think Adobe resented that one for a very long time.

Apple is walking a tightrope in attempting to attract developers whilst competing with its developers. They need to keep the balance right - buying Adobe would almost certainly tip the balance in an unfavourable direction and discourage a lot of developers from making significant investments in the Mac platform.

mymemory
Nov 23, 2001, 05:55 PM
Man, it is a big hard when you haven't spoke the lenguage in almost two years, and most of the times I'm discusing things here when I'm in my office with my boss behind me, so I do not have too much time for a spell check. In fact I was looking for a long time a interesting forum to practice my english... but I got here.


Microsoft is not going to buy anything. Usually when a company buy another one is because:
1. The other one is smaller big time but with a good product.
2. The smaller one is going to the bankruptcy and is worth it any way.

Now, Adobe is not in any financial problem and even if is smaller than MS, Adobe is big enough. So, I do not see why to make Adobe be part of MS, and if a company do that change I guess too many things have to be changed from the inside, and if Adobe is not in necesary need to be part of something else... if is not broken why fix it?

Beside, PC's are not that multimedia ready as a Mac, of course you can do it in a PC but why living Mac behind specially when Apple has the iMac and the iBook as a entry level product for the new generation?


I do not see particular reasons in the media.


[Edited by mymemory on 11-23-2001 at 07:40 PM]

takidenza
Nov 23, 2001, 06:02 PM
someone said Microsoft (MSG) has 99% of the market.
Are you not a real MAC FAN we have almost 5% so there! Windoz XP sucks for all I care Long Live the MAC!
Hail to the Steves. (WOZ and JOBS) Adobe needs to get on the ball and port mor products or speed it up rather for OS X v.10.1. NO one is buying any one. they will remain their seperate entities.

Johnny 5
Nov 24, 2001, 07:46 PM
I hate "rumors" like this. No real sources and some moron typing out a vision that came to him in a dream last night.

Moreover, there is a reason adobe has been lagging with the OS X apps... and that reason was OS X was sucking...and sucking hard. Adobe doesn't make garbage pro products, they need a first rate OS to develop on.

Shesss... look at FreeHand 10 on X compaired to Illustrator 10. Illustrator is much better app. It looks better, feels more responsive to me, yada yada yada.

Ensign Paris
Nov 25, 2001, 04:22 PM
I seriously don't think Apple will buy Adobe, infact I don't think anybody will.

Guy

Buggy
Nov 25, 2001, 11:25 PM
I suspect it is more of an attempt to manipulate stock then anything real. There is a convergency in the telecomunications, news providors and with content deliverers (TV, Radio, internet, etc.). THere may be opportunities for more computer convergencies, but I suspect things are on too shaky of terms right now for taking big chances like Apple buying Adobe....even if that was possible. Or for Microsoft to release a gaming platform and buy a major software company in the same year.

Its just fluff.

GPTurismo
Nov 26, 2001, 11:47 AM
I agree with Buggy. There isn't enough hard evidence to prove this at all. Just a few circumstances and someone taking a shot.

If it was so, I think the Feds wouldn't allow Microsoft to buy it, and Apple would loose money if they didn't keep the software PC and MAC. If anything, we could see a merger between Adobe with another company, which with me saying that, a rumor is probably going to get started that Adobe and Apple are going to merge. :\

We're just going to have to wait and see what develops and to see if more evidence, and hard evidence, comes forth.

-GPT

SPG
Nov 26, 2001, 01:54 PM
I agree with you that any mergers or buyouts are unlikely, but the MS and the feds argument is probably not the reason. Look at the latest "settlement" not even a slap on the wrist for MS when you look at the details.
If MS and Bill Gates thought they had something subsstantial to gain from buying Adobe, they would have done it already. The arguments presented are no stronger than the argument for any company to buy any software developer, and the reasons against it are all still there.

GPTurismo
Nov 26, 2001, 02:33 PM
Well, considering how shakey the feds are getting over the merger of Compaq and HP, how will they feel towards two of the largest software companies merging?

SPG
Nov 26, 2001, 03:50 PM
Good point. I was thinking more along the lines that MS seems to be able to get away with whatever it wants (at least with the Justice Department) especially under the Bush administration.

jefhatfield
Nov 26, 2001, 06:41 PM
over here on the west coast, there does seem to be a courtship with the republican party and microsoft with representatives

whether it goes all the way to bush, i don't know but maybe after all this tug of war, with a GOP government, microsoft may get off easy

i do think that the issue with microsoft vs. everybody in the universe will make it a little hard for microsoft to just come out and buy adobe any more than the monopoly proceedings would have made it possible for microsoft to outright buy apple a few years ago

...either adobe or apple could have handily been bought by mircosoft in the late 90s if it had not been for the feds keeping tabs on bill's company

what kind of adobe would we have if it were owned by microsoft?

...not even looking at bill gates, paul allen has substantial power within microsoft and elsewhere as his high personal fortune ranking suggests every year in fortune magazine

(keep an eye on steve ballmer and rick belluzo, who is ballmer's right hand man the way that ballmer played second fiddle to gates just a couple of years ago...these guys are incredibly powerful yet not as visible as bill gates)

unfortunately, it still seems like money can buy (almost) everything buy i am glad to hear, from an article brought to my attention from another poster here, that microsoft reportedly has no more stock in apple, inc.

porruka
Nov 26, 2001, 06:42 PM
There may be reasons why a buyout won't happen, but everyone complaining about this rumor seems to be attacking the messenger rather than really looking at the possibilities (no, I didn't write the piece so I don't know the sources of info).

Adobe's financials have been shakey the last few years, with a good quarter followed by a poor quarter, generally blamed on Apple (but not always, and not always accurately).

So, given that, the company doesn't need to be on death's door (bankruptcy) for the company's directors to think they can do better.

Why would Apple buy them? Probably to keep MS from buying them. Sure, it would be a stretch, but Apple could make it a stock-deal and not have to shell out as much cash. Would that fly? Not sure, since the benefit to Apple's stock holders to offset the dilution would be the Adobe revenue streams. Perhaps Adobe would be kept ala FileMakerPro, but I don't see that really strengthening the Adobe position in the market.

Why would MS buy them? For reasons similar to the Great Plains purchase, I'd think. Now that MS has a stranglehold on the desktop (reinforced by the butt-kissing the DOJ is trying to give them now), MS has to do something to fuel the revenue growth projections, lest its stock start tumbling on slower growth. Look for MS to diversify, both to cement its hold on developers/users, but to also feed the Street. An area that MS has traditionally been weak in is content creation. What better way to catapult into a dominant position in that market. Someone above mentioned that if MS wanted to do it they would have done so already; not necessarily. For an Adobe buyout to work, it would have to be somewhat friendly, else all the talent would leave. Add to that the end of the anti-trust case uncertainty and now you have a company with 36+ billion in the bank looking for ways to get a better return on it. Adobe might _not_ be an MS target -- but watch for MS to buy its way into several markets in the next year or two, IMO.

FWIW,

-porruka, EIC, MacEdition
porruka@macedition.com
http://www.macedition.com

randy "long" johnson
Nov 27, 2001, 03:39 PM
<< Apple won't build a killer aplication for video or audio just because it will loose the support from companies like Mark of the Unicorn, Avid, Digidesign, etc. >>

Just for the record, I think Final Cut Pro 2.x is a pretty "killer application", as far as non-linear video apps go.

mymemory
Nov 27, 2001, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by randy "long" johnson

Just for the record, I think Final Cut Pro 2.x is a pretty "killer application", as far as non-linear video apps go.

I didn't know it was Apple made

macdevil
Dec 9, 2001, 12:18 AM
For Apple to buy Adobe would be a rather large gamble on the part of apple and perhaps even shooting itself in the foot. Here is why:

Adobe, and photoshop in particulair are graphics standards. They are used cross platform and they have a key part of the market. The moment apple would buy adobe a large part of this market that uses PC's would be catious to say the least. i predict you would see a huge hostilaty towards Apple simly because as we are suspicious of Microsoft, many pc users simply do not like Apple. In addition, Apple now commits itself to develop for a pc market and despite the teams that Adobe already has onboard in the years ahead key decision would have to be made, by Apple, and despite how well Apple knows its own market (and can predict the trends of the technology world) it will find it tough to develop for the pc world.

In addition, and perhaps for more of a concern is that the moment apple steps in and buys Adobe and the unrest mentioned earlier destablizes the market you will see other developers jump at the opportunity to promote their products and they now actually have a chance. Standards are one thing - but they can be changed. If the standards changes away from Adobe products than Apple is left with programs that are no longer widely used on the pc Apple is effectually cutting into its own market share.

With these reasons in mind I do not see Apple buy Adobe even if they were financially capable. Part of Steve Job's success has been to accurate predict were money is to be made. He will not commit Apple to a purchase that could potentially mean the end of Apple. Remember he has invested significants amount of efforts (which is at times infinently more valuable than money) in Apple. He still has pride running the company which will prevent him from pushing for the purchase of Adobe.

Diede van Lamoen