Apple will continue to invest in the Apple TV

[zedsdead]

Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Still a hobby for us, but movie rentals are increasing popularity. We will continue to invest in it, because we believe there is something there.

This is great news. I didn't expect them to change their view about it being a hobby, but it is nice to hear that they will continue development of the Apple TV. Hopefully new hardware is coming soon...possibly what all the news about the Atom processor is about.

[bryan1884]

we can only hope...i know i'll be buying one if the do revise the hardware.

[Michael CM1]

I still think that rumor about the Atom going in the Mac Mini was hilarious. Yes, the response to it was moreso, but why would Apple suck the power out of a product at the same price?

I don't know much about the Atom processor aside from it is supposed to cure cancer (along with the G1 and the Pre). I think the ATV needs more software work than hardware, unless you count the crap remote. Some sort of Wii-like remote and many more options on playback would improve the device by leaps and bounds.

[slapppy]

I love my AppleTV. :)

[ipedro]

This is encouraging. There were indications that Apple wasn't putting much of an effort into it.

It always made sense that Apple would stay in this market – it will be a huge market one day – or somebody else would come in and win it. Nonetheless, hearing from Apple themselves that they're sticking to their guns is good.

Looking forward to 3.0

[NightStorm]

This is good news, I half expected the answer to be:

"Tim Cook: AppleTV??? Didn't we discontinue that last year?"

:D

[Rich1963]

I just can't see Apple abandoning the AppleTV without providing another way of placing your iTunes content on a TV. Think about it. Media is no longer about just music. And while there was a time when the only high-def viewing device in your house was a computer monitor, that's no longer the case. Apple knows the days of your computer being your primary HD viewing device are drawing to a close. Hell, I spent less on a 50" HD 1080p plasma than I did on my 24" imac (not much, but a little).

The AppleTV's not going anywhere. Now, whether Apple devotes a lot of time to software upgrades or a hardware upgrade is another argument...

[spatlese44]

hobby?

That term may have some legal significance for Apple. As a corporation, subject to public disclosure of operations, calling this product a hobby could be little more than an accurate accounting term for: "something we are going to lose money at for a while, so don't ask about it". I thought there was some official rule about the number of years you could take a loss and not call something a hobby. Must not be or certain car manufactures could be said to have a hobby of making automobiles.

In any case, we might take this "hobby" term with a grain of salt. Apple probably takes this emerging market very seriously. It has the potential to be a bigger market than anything prior. Assuming that's the case, I think we'll see a substantial hardware upgrade in the near future.

[surferfromuk]

I think they need to stop treating it like a hobby and put some real effort into making something everyone wants to buy. Right now I can see that a number of other companies are positioning themselves to create alliances or open software alternatives that threaten to render Apple TV irrelevant.


They've had 2 years with this as a 'hobby' now - that's 2 years while every other company has been aiming for a point in the future to beat Apple...

I have to say they're slipping badly with Apple TV. I'd buy one in the UK if it were the equivalent of $400 dollars for a 40Gb version...I'd buy one at the current price if it acted as an all-in-one media delivery, recording and storage solution - but it really isn't anything more than a wireless 'dvd-rip' Mac to LCD TV interface'...

[stagi]

im glad they will continue working on it, I love my apple TV

[techfreak85]

i dont see why a lot of people dont like it/buy it. i love mine!

[Keebler]

i like the appletv concept. for me, i don't have a widescreen tv (yet) although i know I can still run one on mine.

for me, i'm waiting for apple to make something with some raid storage in it.

i know I can get a unit to attach to 1 of my macs, but honestly, i don't want my macs, the appletv AND an external HD unit all running. It just doesn't make sense.

one combined unit connected to my tv, now that makes sense and I'm willing to buy into it. :)

don't get me wrong, i have nothing against the appletv, but i'm just waiting :)
and it's not easy just waiting when I know I'll love it, but i'm hoping my wait will be sweeter in the end.

cheers,
keebler

[shiseiryu1]

I think they need to stop treating it like a hobby and put some real effort into making something everyone wants to buy. Right now I can see that a number of other companies are positioning themselves to create alliances or open software alternatives that threaten to render Apple TV irrelevant.


I totally agree with this. None of my friends know what the AppleTV is, however, when they come to my house and see it they're all amazed. Apple needs to put some $$ into making the AppleTV better, making more content available, and marketing it so people know what it is. There is a mini "Apple Store" at my local best buy but they don't even sell :apple:TV there. :(

[jaw04005]

Apple TV sales were also up 300% year over year. :D

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=94453

[soLoredd]

I agree with the earlier poster who mentioned the software over hardware. Apple can optimize the software for the current AppleTV, what they need to do is increase the functionality of the machine. Opening up the USB port for an external drive would be a great way to do this.

Apple should look at how to make this thing work in the CENTER of the home theater and not just some needless add-on that it currently is. I know some of us do use the AppleTV as the main component but reality is, not many people even know what the hell it does or its purpose.

[Alan Taylor]

I adore my AppleTV. if they ever announce they are gonne be done with it I will buy 3 asap because I couldn't do without mine! Also because I want a second one for the basement LOL

[Wiska]

Apple is really serious about the Apple TV.

After renting a HD movie, I received the iTunes receipt which had a link to "report a problem". While the movie rental process and viewing were exceptional, I did report a problem with poor audio quality of my rental, ie. very soft dialog volume and very loud volume during the loud parts of the movie which made watching very frustrating because I would have to adjust the volume on my TV constantly. It got to the point I gave up on the movie a third into it.

After filing the report, Apple immediately responded and gave me a refund on the rental, which came as a total surprise to me.

[ftaok]

i dont see why a lot of people dont like it/buy it. i love mine!
While I love the idea of AppleTV, the reason I don't have one (yet) is that it doesn't play VIDEO_TS out of the box. I'm not interested in hacking it or anything, so I'm out of luck there until Apple decides to support VIDEO_TS (and MPEG-2 mts streams from EyeTV or other devices).

I have several TV's around the house and in my perfect AV set-up, each TV would have an aTV attached. A Mac mini (also not yet owned) would serve as the central server with TBs of HDDs attached.

While I'm dreaming, it wouldn't hurt if Apple added support for sites like Hulu, etc. Or at least open up the architecture to allow for plug-ins or an App Store to allow developers to add functionality.

If this were to happen, I'd cancel Comcast and stick an antenna in my attic. I'd spend the $60/mo that I'd save on Apple products.

All in all, it's a win/win ...

ft

[jessica.]

What is your source for this statement OP?
It is funny, if we post something like this in this format about an upcoming release people cry fake and start the arguing. The OP formats a question and answer citing no sources and people pat him on the back.


I am not convinced Apple would not abandon this project, much like the mini. I certainly hope they make me a liar.

Apple is really serious about the Apple TV.

After renting a HD movie, I received the iTunes receipt which had a link to "report a problem". While the movie rental process and viewing were exceptional, I did report a problem with poor audio quality of my rental, ie. very soft dialog volume and very loud volume during the loud parts of the movie which made watching very frustrating because I would have to adjust the volume on my TV constantly. It got to the point I gave up on the movie a third into it.

After filing the report, Apple immediately responded and gave me a refund on the rental, which came as a total surprise to me.


This makes them serious about iTunes rentals and not your ATV.

[NightStorm]

What is your source for this statement OP?
It is funny, if we post something like this in this format about an upcoming release people cry fake and start the arguing. The OP formats a question and answer citing no sources and people pat him on the back.
It was stated during their quarterly earnings conference call earlier this week.

[Wiska]

This makes them serious about iTunes rentals and not your ATV.
You can rent HD movies only on the Apple TV.

[Tilpots]

The word "hobby" is a cop out. It means "we're intentionally not giving it the 'ol college try." Thanks for the effort, Apple.:rolleyes:

[BaldiMac]

I think they are maintaining it as a hobby is because the two fundamental problems with the video distribution are primarily out of Apple's control.

Bandwidth and licensing.

[mchalebk]

While I love the idea of AppleTV, the reason I don't have one (yet) is that it doesn't play VIDEO_TS out of the box. I'm not interested in hacking it or anything, so I'm out of luck there until Apple decides to support VIDEO_TS (and MPEG-2 mts streams from EyeTV or other devices).

The biggest roadblock preventing the AppleTV from being all that it could be is the movie studios. Does anyone honestly think that Apple is going to make it easy to play ripped DVDs on the AppleTV and risk the wrath of the studios? There is no chance that Apple will allow the Apple TV to play VIDEO_TS unless the studios agree to dump DRM. And that is not going to happen.

If you want to rip DVDs and play them on your AppleTV, there are tools available out there to let you do that. However, don’t hold your breath waiting for Apple to provide the capability “out of the box”.

[ftaok]

The biggest roadblock preventing the AppleTV from being all that it could be is the movie studios. Does anyone honestly think that Apple is going to make it easy to play ripped DVDs on the AppleTV and risk the wrath of the studios? There is no chance that Apple will allow the Apple TV to play VIDEO_TS unless the studios agree to dump DRM. And that is not going to happen.

If you want to rip DVDs and play them on your AppleTV, there are tools available out there to let you do that. However, don’t hold your breath waiting for Apple to provide the capability “out of the box”.
Honestly, I don't buy that explanation at all. What's the difference between the aTV playing VIDEO_TS and a Mac playing VIDEO_TS? Hell, Front Row can play VIDEO_TS without using that script that was developed by of our forum members.

I agree that Apple won't have VIDEO_TS capabilities in the aTV anytime soon, but I don't buy that it's the movie studios behind forcing it. In any event, I won't be buying an aTV unless it has these features, or something else that replaces that functionality.

ft

[BaldiMac]

Honestly, I don't buy that explanation at all. What's the difference between the aTV playing VIDEO_TS and a Mac playing VIDEO_TS? Hell, Front Row can play VIDEO_TS without using that script that was developed by of our forum members.

I agree that Apple won't have VIDEO_TS capabilities in the aTV anytime soon, but I don't buy that it's the movie studios behind forcing it. In any event, I won't be buying an aTV unless it has these features, or something else that replaces that functionality.

ft

Can you legally copy DVDs?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5128652-1.html

[dmm219]

While I'm dreaming, it wouldn't hurt if Apple added support for sites like Hulu, etc. Or at least open up the architecture to allow for plug-ins or an App Store to allow developers to add functionality.

If this were to happen, I'd cancel Comcast and stick an antenna in my attic. I'd spend the $60/mo that I'd save on Apple products.




You can do this right now. I know you said you didn't want to hack it, but seriously...my grandmother could do the boxee hack. Its the simplist hack on the planet, and it makes the ATV totally worth it. At this point, there is no reason to hold back. Boxee works like a charm and makes the ATV do just about everything I'd wish for (still missing netflix tho...)

[jessica.]

It was stated during their quarterly earnings conference call earlier this week.
Yes but you get my point. It was just written without a source. Not everyone is on the call ... just an FYI.
You can rent HD movies only on the Apple TV.

Right I know, but I certainly don't think a rental refund has much to do with their commitment to ATV. It makes people look down on iTunes not ATV when an HD movie sucks.

[NightStorm]

Yes but you get my point. It was just written without a source. Not everyone is on the call ... just an FYI.

Pretty sure the OP used this website as the source: http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/21/apple-reports-1-61-billion-profit-for-q1-2009/

[ftaok]

Can you legally copy DVDs?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5128652-1.htmlNot in this country, but that's not the point. Also, there are other, legitimate sources of VIDEO_TS out there, but that's not the point either.

My point is that Apple has already built applications that are capable of playing VIDEO_TS (DVD Player and Front Row). What's the difference between a Mac playing a VIDEO_TS and an aTV doing it?


You can do this right now. I know you said you didn't want to hack it, but seriously...my grandmother could do the boxee hack. Its the simplist hack on the planet, and it makes the ATV totally worth it. At this point, there is no reason to hold back. Boxee works like a charm and makes the ATV do just about everything I'd wish for (still missing netflix tho...)I may very well do that anyways. I'm actually waiting for the next aTV update before committing. Just seeing what Apple has up it's sleeve.

I already have my Boxee invite ready to go if do go with an aTV.

[BaldiMac]

My point is that Apple has already built applications that are capable of playing VIDEO_TS (DVD Player and Front Row). What's the difference between a Mac playing a VIDEO_TS and an aTV doing it?

The difference is that DVD PLayer and Front Row are capable of playing VIDEO_TS because they are designed to play DVDs. An AppleTV is not. How would Apple explain such a feature? It wouldn't make sense to provide the ability to play VIDEO_TS without the ability to rip a DVD (legal issues) or play the DVD directly.

[MrCatMan]

In the words of Dire Straits... I love my aTV.

This product is becoming a must have, particularly when it is getting easier to get the content.

I have my films on a Drobo via a MacBook streaming all content to my aTV.

A film takes no time now to download from itunes and with Handbrake I have started adding my DVD library (800) onto my Drobo and streaming down to my plasma via aTV.

Is there a way of taking content from Sky+ onto aTV yet?

[ftaok]

The difference is that DVD PLayer and Front Row are capable of playing VIDEO_TS because they are designed to play DVDs. An AppleTV is not. How would Apple explain such a feature? It wouldn't make sense to provide the ability to play VIDEO_TS without the ability to rip a DVD (legal issues) or play the DVD directly.
Good point. Still, it would be nice to have VIDEO_TS support on the aTV.

I guess my options are buying a Mac mini for the main TV and aTVs for the other TVs. But I'll be waiting the the update either way. Or I could get an aTV and hack it for Boxee and VIDEO_TS support.

Aggh! Why can't they make it easy for me?

ft

[iParis]

This is very good news, the Apple TV has a lot of potential and I hope on getting one soon.

[Grasbak]

Apple are 'placing their bets' that all TV content will eventually be through the internet through devices like AppleTV. Presumably its a hobby at the moment as the quantity isnt there yet.

They are ready and waiting for the boom.

They have no need to release a better specced version until internet speeds can download higher quality material at a decent speed.

[surferfromuk]

Personally I think they overcooked it...all they need to make is a ‘Video Airport Express’ (VAE) which allows you stream media from iTunes (PC or Mac no need to be fussy) direct to the HDMI socket on your TV.

Play in iTunes (PC or Mac) - it sends it full screen to your TV. Just like Airport Express does with audio.

...iTunes once more becomes the core media hub - simple again...it can send a ‘Apple TV-esque’ front end to enable it to be navigable from an Apple white remote which comes with the VAE.

Simple as that. I’d buy one, (well about three of them actually) tomorrow without a seconds hesitation.

I can't believe they have just missed the total obviousness of this...

[mchalebk]

I agree that Apple won't have VIDEO_TS capabilities in the aTV anytime soon, but I don't buy that it's the movie studios behind forcing it.

I didn't say (or even suggest) that the studios were "forcing it"; Apple is voluntarily taking this stand.

For the AppleTV to really succeed, Apple needs to gain concessions from the studios. The following are a few things that need to happen (in my opinion) for the AppleTV to truly take off (this list is not meant to be all inclusive):

1. Rentals need to be available on the same day that DVDs and BDs are released.
2. Prices need to come down on rentals (probably at least $1 across the line).
3. They need to give you more than 24 or even 48 hours to finish viewing a rental (I can't count how many times my wife and I get into a movie, then get a phone call and end up having to finish the movie the next night or the night after). Why not give us a full week?
4. They need to add TV show rentals at a reasonable cost (maybe 4 episodes for $1.99).

So, if Apple wants to have any chance at gaining concessions along these lines, it cannot afford to alienate the studios by making it easier to rip DVDs and view them on your home theater system.

[mchalebk]

Personally I think they overcooked it...all they need to make is a ‘Video Airport Express’ (VAE) which allows you stream media from iTunes (PC or Mac no need to be fussy) direct to the HDMI socket on your TV.

Play in iTunes (PC or Mac) - it sends it full screen to your TV. Just like Airport Express does with audio.

...iTunes once more becomes the core media hub - simple again...it can send a ‘Apple TV-esque’ front end to enable it to be navigable from an Apple white remote which comes with the VAE.

Simple as that. I’d buy one, (well about three of them actually) tomorrow without a seconds hesitation.

I can't believe they have just missed the total obviousness of this...

Sorry, but there are many of us who do not want to leave our computers on all the time. The main reason I bought my AppleTV is to allow access to my music collection without having to have my computer on (or to have to control it from afar). The second reason is to have home videos (in particular my wife’s horse show videos) available without having to burn them to DVD (or have the computer on).

[gibbz]

Some think (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19858/) that Take 3 will be here by February.

[iOrlando]

i like my apple tv...but i have to admit...the technology still isnt up to netflix when it comes to renting movies.


When i want to rent an HD movie..like Ironman...it takes about 2 hours to download....which is a little too long if i wanted to start watching a movie just as I sit down with somebody. As it stands now..i kind of have to plan ahead when i want to see the movie. Once the movie starts..its fine...but its just waiting for it to download.....netflix and their instant streaming is still better...so come on apple...get it faster...

[surferfromuk]

Sorry, but there are many of us who do not want to leave our computers on all the time. The main reason I bought my AppleTV is to allow access to my music collection without having to have my computer on (or to have to control it from afar). The second reason is to have home videos (in particular my wife’s horse show videos) available without having to burn them to DVD (or have the computer on).

I hear what your saying but for casual users like me it's no big deal to leave the computer on...

I don't see why you couldn't still have a full HD ATV and an SD express one...

[srl7741]

Some think (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19858/) that Take 3 will be here by February.

I agree, Think of the millions of people who have purchased Movies thru iTunes to watch on a TV. There is NO way Apple with abandon ATV. They will change and improve the product when they are ready to release something that is worth it for the consumers who for 1. already have ATV and 2. May like to purchase this type of product. Apple will never simply abandon what they have started. Their customers have to much invested.

[Robbadore64]

we can only hope...i know i'll be buying one if the do revise the hardware.

Been waiting and waiting to buy my second :apple:TV. I just wouldn't get the same excitement factor buying something I already own...

[BaldiMac]

i like my apple tv...but i have to admit...the technology still isnt up to netflix when it comes to renting movies.


When i want to rent an HD movie..like Ironman...it takes about 2 hours to download....which is a little too long if i wanted to start watching a movie just as I sit down with somebody. As it stands now..i kind of have to plan ahead when i want to see the movie. Once the movie starts..its fine...but its just waiting for it to download.....netflix and their instant streaming is still better...so come on apple...get it faster...

The length of time it takes for the movie to start has to do with your internet connection. With a 6 Mbps connection (common with a cable modem), an HD movie will start in about a minute on AppleTV, barring congestion. An SD movie will start instantly on most high speed connections.

You must be comparing download speeds on a HD movie on AppleTV with an SD movie on Netflix. And you have a relatively slow internet connection.

[dmm219]

The length of time it takes for the movie to start has to do with your internet connection. With a 6 Mbps connection (common with a cable modem), an HD movie will start in about a minute on AppleTV, barring congestion. An SD movie will start instantly on most high speed connections.

You must be comparing download speeds on a HD movie on AppleTV with an SD movie on Netflix. And you have a relatively slow internet connection.

I would agree in most cases. And with a standard cable 5M download, it works great. This poster's problems may indeed have been their internet. However, many have noticed in the past couple of weeks, extremely slow downloads of Movies on the ATV which is most likely a problem on the Apple side of things.

Its gotten better, last night, The dark knight was ready in about a minute on my cable modem.

By the way, in my opinion, ATV movie rentals will ALWAYS beat netflix, for the sole reason that its NOT a streaming service, I would rather let the movie download the day before, and watch it knowing there will be no hiccups as it runs off of the ATV HD. This is something you just can't get with streaming services...and can become a big issue with HD streaming...

[Tilpots]

Some think (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19858/) that Take 3 will be here by February.

Good article. This writer is pretty much right on the money with my personal hopes for the :apple:TV. C'mon February...

[NightStorm]

Some think (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/19858/) that Take 3 will be here by February.

This article is nothing more than a pipe dream, based on absolutely no actual facts. Believing it is only going to set you up for disappointment.

[VTMac]

i like my apple tv...but i have to admit...the technology still isnt up to netflix when it comes to renting movies.


When i want to rent an HD movie..like Ironman...it takes about 2 hours to download....which is a little too long if i wanted to start watching a movie just as I sit down with somebody. As it stands now..i kind of have to plan ahead when i want to see the movie. Once the movie starts..its fine...but its just waiting for it to download.....netflix and their instant streaming is still better...so come on apple...get it faster...

If it's taking 2 hours, you must be on a VERY slow DSL and/or a very congested internet connection. On 6Mpbs cable HD movies for me and my family (3 different AppleTVs with 3 different cable providers) start in less than 3 minutes consistently. Even when I only had 3Mbps cable I'd start in 10-12 minutes.

There is something very wrong with your network if that's how long you're waiting.

[godslabrat]

Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Still a hobby for us, but movie rentals are increasing popularity. We will continue to invest in it, because we believe there is something there.


(Emphasis mine)

I like that word, invest. It has a very specific meaning. Apple is going to put money into the AppleTV project in the hope of getting a bigger return in the future. Currently, all they are doing is selling the same unit that's been on the market for 2+ years now. Telling us they plan to INVEST in it means they'll do something that costs them money in the short run. At the bare minumum, we'll need another software upgrade to give us better features. Preferably, Apple really should revamp the whole hardware scheme with new options.

I don't think a BTO AppleTV option is that bad an idea.

[rayward]

If Apple is serious about producing a media server (I hope they are because I just don't trust that HP thing), then the ATV has to be integral to it.

[Tilpots]

This article is nothing more than a pipe dream, based on absolutely no actual facts. Believing it is only going to set you up for disappointment.

Nobody claimed this article was gospel and if it was a real rumor, it'd be on the front page. The writer clearly states 5 things he thinks could improve the :apple:TV. Pipe dream? Nah. It's called logic. No company's made the ultimate living room computer hardware and he merely pointed out some of :apple:TV's shortcomings.

[jaw04005]

This article is nothing more than a pipe dream, based on absolutely no actual facts. Believing it is only going to set you up for disappointment.

Exactly.

• Full HD and DVR capabilities
• Built-in digital TV (ATSC) tuner
• Built-in Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme
• Premium TV channels via iTunes Store: Apple is strong enough in Hollywood to bring channels like Fox, CNN, Discovery, HBO and others to ATV3 via iTS on a subscription basis. Add iPhone into the picture and you got live TV on the go anywhere in your home.
• App Store access and ability to run apps

They lost me at the ATSC tuner, and the combination of Apple TV, Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme is ludicrous.

Here's my wish list:

1. New larger text interface with local media at top
2. Dashboard widget support (weather, stocks, etc) possibly in a screen saver
3. 720P 30 fps playback support
4. Third-party plug-in support (EyeTV, etc)
5. Better sharing/syncing between computers

Bug List:
1. Ability to turn off "sync back" for podcasts
2. Ability to stream photos from synced computer
3. iPhone Remote application should support on-the-go video playlists

[macbiker]

Not sure if it's mentioned yet or not. But I think they should add a blu-ray player to the device. That would be awesome. A lot of people could potentially buy it for the blu-ray player and ease into the online movie rentals and buying shows.

[ChrisN]

It's good that they are still interested and making more :apple:TVs and I think I will be one once they revise it with another firmware upgrade.

ChrisN

[dynaflash]

Here's my wish list:

1. New larger text interface with local media at top
2. Dashboard widget support (weather, stocks, etc) possibly in a screen saver
3. 720P 30 fps playback support
4. Third-party plug-in support (EyeTV, etc)
5. Better sharing/syncing between computers

Bug List:
1. Ability to turn off "sync back" for podcasts
2. Ability to stream photos from synced computer
3. iPhone Remote application should support on-the-go video playlists

Good Lord !!! Did I just see a realistic wish list on macrumors ???? Nah, can't be.

[topher5]

I asked my corporate sales rep about AppleTV offhandedly one day a year ago or so. He said that the development efforts on the iPhone and iPod touch had really drained away the talent from working on AppleTV. That being said, he claims that Jobs has repeatedly stated that the AppleTV is core to their future (along with iPods and iPhones).

My personal take is that the iPod didn't really take off until Gen3. We're somewhere at Gen1.5 or Gen2 of the AppleTV depending upon how you look at it so I almost think they don't expect it to take off yet. They know they still have kinks to work out of the system.

Either way I do love my two AppleTVs. My family loves them so much my wife can't stand it if there is a problem with iTunes which prevents her from using them. Heck even my two year old knows how to operate it and find his shows.

I recently picked up the Western Digital HD TV for my parents and it's interface really made me appreciate Apple's. On the other hand, the ease of plugging in a USB drive really highlighted how simple features are killing AppleTV right now.

[gibbz]

This article is nothing more than a pipe dream, based on absolutely no actual facts. Believing it is only going to set you up for disappointment.

That is why I said "Some Think" -- didn't say "I Think" it or believed in it.:)

In fact I think most is a bit far fetched for a self described 'hobby'.

[Tilpots]

Good Lord !!! Did I just see a realistic wish list on macrumors ???? Nah, can't be.

Purposeful oxymoron? :p

It seems some of you think the writer's list isn't do-able with today's technology. If Apple can make a Phone/iPod/web browser/gaming console that fits in your pocket, surely they can make a device that fits the writer's list for a TV.

[NightStorm]

Purposeful oxymoron? :p

It seems some of you think the writer's list isn't do-able with today's technology. If Apple can make a Phone/iPod/web browser/gaming console that fits in your pocket, surely they can make a device that fits the writer's list for a TV.

Of course it's doable using current technology, and I'm sure the engineers on the AppleTV team are smarter than the vast majority of people here and couple probably figure it all out over a weekend. I think the point people are trying to make (myself included) is that Apple won't make a device like that because it doesn't fit into their business model.

[jaw04005]

• Full HD and DVR capabilities

"Full HD" has been beaten to death on this forum, so I'll ignore that request.

DVR won't happen for two reasons — it cannibalizes iTunes TV Show sales and everyone receives their TV differently. To make a DVR that could be sold in just the United States and Canada, Apple would have to include an analog tuner and IR blaster (for satellite), ATSC tuner, QAM tuner and CableCard tuner.

Not to mention, DVB-T, DVB-C and DVB-S among others for additional countries.

This is not going to happen, ever. The most we can hope for is third-party plug-in support, so companies like El Gato can develop plug-ins.

This is why Microsoft has never succeeded with Windows Media Center.

• Built-in Time Capsule and AirPort Extreme

I've never understood this request, but it will never happen as it cannibalizes sales of all three products.

• Premium TV channels via iTunes Store: Apple is strong enough in Hollywood to bring channels like Fox, CNN, Discovery, HBO and others to ATV3 via iTS on a subscription basis.

This is feasible, but the networks will face stiff opposition from cable and satellite providers, which are there bread and butter. Apple TV would then be in direct competition.

Add iPhone into the picture and you got live TV on the go anywhere in your home.

This isn't a new idea, and wouldn't even require an Apple TV. Apple would just need to update iTunes and the iPhone's firmware. However, the content wouldn't be "live," just "on demand."

• App Store access and ability to run apps

How would you control the applications? Using the mini Apple remote? I don't see the utility, but I would like to see Dashboard widgets so I can see the weather, stocks, etc on my TV.

[Fonzijr1964]

i Would Really only buy an Apple TV if
1) it was more like the slingbox
2) it was more like the slingbox

[Fonzijr1964]

This is feasible, but the networks will face stiff opposition from cable and satellite providers, which are there bread and butter. Apple TV would then be in direct competition.



This isn't a new idea, and wouldn't even require an Apple TV. Apple would just need to update iTunes and the iPhone's firmware. However, the content wouldn't be "live," just "on demand."



.

See my above post

You cold use it to control ur DVR too

[kiranmk2]

Rentals/Tv shows aside, the best thing Apple could do for me is to release their home server (combining Time capsule and airport extreme maybe, but leave the ATV separate). I (and I suspect a lot of people) don't want to rely on leaving a computer with itunes running all the time. A server with 4 hdd slots that could run raid-5, have a new version of itunes and serve up content (photos, music and video) to ATVs, airport express, ipods and iphones. Also renting a film from an iphone and having it ready to play on your ATV when you get home.

Hardware-wise, I think the current ATV is fine. If an update moved to Atom and Ion and ate less power then that would be the way to go and allow the ATV to be compatible with 1080p downloads whenever they arrive. But, sort out the soft-subtitle issues and add widgets/applets (BBC iPlayer?!?) add 720p30 and the update is essentially software and a separate standalone product.

[dmm219]

I guess I don't ask for much...I'd be ecstatically happy simply with live Games on MLB.TV. That's it. I'd never ask for another thing ever again...

[gianpan]

For me Apple Tv is preety useless now, I would consider one if :

1) They put in some good hardware such as Ion platform and we can do more stuff on it, such as gaming and use apps from app store (I don't really care about gaming tbh but if Apple would like to see how the gaming market would work for them it's a good chance)
2) They put in a built-in blu-ray (or just DVD) player.
3) An HD tuner.
4) Also not very important but apple should understand that it's no longer 1999 and hard disks cost like 80$ for 750GB. They should put 160gb for base model and 320gb for high-end.
5) Pricing same as now, I consider it severely overpriced now as most it's uses involve paying for something (renting a movie etc.)

P.S I know that the only thing that stands a chance is 5 maybe 4 too..

[ftaok]

I guess I don't ask for much...I'd be ecstatically happy simply with live Games on MLB.TV. That's it. I'd never ask for another thing ever again...I will second that. MLB.tv is one piece of my "Cancel-Comcast" plan. Right now, I don't have a great way to watch internet material on my big screen. From time to time, we connect the wife's MB, but if she's using it, I'm not.

I've been patiently waiting for the next rev of the mini for this task, but an aTV with app or plug-in features would be great. I'm sure that MLB could work up an aTV application.

For me Apple Tv is preety useless now, I would consider one if :

1) They put in some good hardware such as Ion platform and we can do more stuff on it, such as gaming and use apps from app store (I don't really care about gaming tbh but if Apple would like to see how the gaming market would work for them it's a good chance)
2) They put in a built-in blu-ray (or just DVD) player.
3) An HD tuner.
4) Also not very important but apple should understand that it's no longer 1999 and hard disks cost like 80$ for 750GB. They should put 160gb for base model and 320gb for high-end.
5) Pricing same as now, I consider it severely overpriced now as most it's uses involve paying for something (renting a movie etc.)

P.S I know that the only thing that stands a chance is 5 maybe 4 too..Yeah, I think 1, 2, and 3 are pipe-dreams ... for various reasons.

As for #4, the $80, 750GB drive you mention is a 3.5" desktop class drive. aTV's use 2.5" laptop drives which are both, more expensive and less capacious. Now, if they made the box bigger and allowed for a 3.5" drive, then I'm all for it.

ft

[rfrankl]

Just take $1B of the $28B cash and buy TiVo and incorporate that into the AppleTV with a Blue Ray drive. They will sell like hotcakes.

[ftaok]

Just take $1B of the $28B cash and buy TiVo and incorporate that into the AppleTV with a Blue Ray drive. They will sell like hotcakes.

Was that a joke?

If by hotcakes, you mean lead filled hotcakes tethered to the ground, then yes, you're right.

If Apple were to integrate Tivo and BD into an aTV, it would cost at least a $1000. Quality BD players run about $300 or so. A TivoHD runs $600 (with lifetime). An aTV runs $230.

ft

[BaldiMac]

i Would Really only buy an Apple TV if
1) it was more like the slingbox
2) it was more like the slingbox

Why not just buy the slingbox?

[voodoofish]

I'd buy one in the UK if it were the equivalent of $400 dollars for a 40Gb version...

huh? you know according to google $400 is £289, and you can get a 40GB Apple TV off of Amazon.co.uk for £195? Even when £1=$2 last summer then that means you could still get the 40GB version for less than $400 in the UK....

[Tilpots]

Was that a joke?

If by hotcakes, you mean lead filled hotcakes tethered to the ground, then yes, you're right.

If Apple were to integrate Tivo and BD into an aTV, it would cost at least a $1000. Quality BD players run about $300 or so. A TivoHD runs $600 (with lifetime). An aTV runs $230.

ft

So you're saying your against BTO options?

Some people want a Mac Mini, some people want a Mac Pro. Some people want an iPod Shuffle, some people want the iPod Touch. Some people want the current :apple:TV, some people want a TV device with all the options. If they're willing to pay for it, what's the problem?

[Fonzijr1964]

Why not just buy the slingbox?

its not iPhone computable yet and my never be

[ftaok]

So you're saying your against BTO options?

Some people want a Mac Mini, some people want a Mac Pro. Some people want an iPod Shuffle, some people want the iPod Touch. Some people want the current :apple:TV, some people want a TV device with all the options. If they're willing to pay for it, what's the problem?And some people want an xMac, some people want a Verizon iPhone, and some people want a Mac Tablet ... ;)

By no means am I against BTO ... but the reality (IMHO) is that it doesn't make financial sense for Apple to make all sorts of BTO options for the aTV. There's just too many SKUs and parts for them to stock. Let's face it, Apple isn't Dell. They can't build an insane number of custom aTVs and hope to make money.

Besides, these kinds of BTO being mentioned for the aTV would require a bigger overall box for the aTV ... and we know how Apple hates wasted space.

A more likely plan would be for Apple to open up the aTV software/hardware to allow third-party devices/applications for the aTV. Put a couple of active USB ports on the back for BD-drives and/or tuners. Open up the OS so that you can use an HDHomeRun and EyeTV devices directly on the aTV.

I think this is more likely than Apple offering any more than two or three levels of aTV.

Hey, if the market for this stuff was bigger, then yeah, by all means allow for my customization. But the HT/computer marketspace is small.

ft

[BaldiMac]

So you're saying your against BTO options?

Some people want a Mac Mini, some people want a Mac Pro. Some people want an iPod Shuffle, some people want the iPod Touch. Some people want the current :apple:TV, some people want a TV device with all the options. If they're willing to pay for it, what's the problem?

BTO options? Adding a Blu-Ray drive or a DVR are hardly what Apple would consider BTO options. You are talking about two completely different product lines.

Three different markets. Blu-ray player, stand alone dvr (not from cable or satellite provider), and AppleTV. None of these markets are very successful. In fact, I would probably bet that Apple with the AppleTV has made more money that any one company in the other markets on hardware sales.

Offering all three options on a "BTO" basis would completely eliminate any economies of scale that Apple could hope to take advantage of. According to tear down analysis, the AppleTV has the lowest margins of any Apple product, probably ever.

As I said before, I think bandwidth and licensing are what is keeping the AppleTV from succeeding as more than a hobby. People don't necessarily want blu-ray, they want high quality HD video. Once home internet connections can support that (20 Mbps or so), Apple can supply it with downloads.

Of course, that part also depends on licensing from the studios. Apple is slowly growing their video business (300% growth in AppleTV in the last year). At some point, they are hoping to have enough influence in the industry to be able to convince the studios to allow higher quality downloads, larger library availability, access to live content streams, and other IPTV functionality.

All of the functionality that you get with a blu-ray or a dvr can be duplicated and exceeded through downloads. But only if bandwidth and the content producers allow it.

[Tilpots]

Check out Dish's ViP 922 (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/dish-networks-vip-922-and-slingguide-unveiled-first-slingload/) which is said to be coming out this Spring.

It's a DVR, Slingbox, OTA Tuner, 1080P capable (and downloadable) player, it's got widgets and can connect to certain internet sites. This beats the pants off the current :apple:TV. The only thing it doesn't have is a Blu-Ray Player, but if you can watch 1080P On-Demand Movies, who needs a Blu-Ray player?

When this thing hits the market, Dish get's my money, not Apple. It's expected to cost about $200 (lease, I believe) with a two year subscription. I'll be saving about $50 bucks a month from my current TWC. I'll have more content than Apple or TWC provides and I'll spend less money getting it.

Apple needs a plan for their living room device. The current :apple:TV doesn't cut it and the sales prove it. People want all-in-one devices. They don't want to connect 3rd party hardware. It doesn't have to be the smallest device ever made, it just has to work.

And as for all this movie studio and "business model" talk, it's garbage and doesn't hold weight. The business model is to make money. Make a device that people want and let them play all means of content, then people will buy it. The content providers want their content viewed. They wouldn't try to hold a revenue source back. It's illogical. The more eyeballs, the more money they make.

[ftaok]

Check out Dish's ViP 922 (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/08/dish-networks-vip-922-and-slingguide-unveiled-first-slingload/) which is said to be coming out this Spring.

It's a DVR, Slingbox, OTA Tuner, 1080P capable (and downloadable) player, it's got widgets and can connect to certain internet sites. This beats the pants off the current :apple:TV. The only thing it doesn't have is a Blu-Ray Player, but if you can watch 1080P On-Demand Movies, who needs a Blu-Ray player?

When this thing hits the market, Dish get's my money, not Apple. It's expected to cost about $200 (lease, I believe) with a two year subscription. I'll be saving about $50 bucks a month from my current TWC. I'll have more content than Apple or TWC provides and I'll spend less money getting it.

Apple needs a plan for their living room device. The current :apple:TV doesn't cut it and the sales prove it. People want all-in-one devices. They don't want to connect 3rd party hardware. It doesn't have to be the smallest device ever made, it just has to work.

And as for all this movie studio and "business model" talk, it's garbage and doesn't hold weight. The business model is to make money. Make a device that people want and let them play all means of content, then people will buy it. The content providers want their content viewed. They wouldn't try to hold a revenue source back. It's illogical. The more eyeballs, the more money they make.

This device sounds tasty, but it's not relevant to what the aTV is/does. Unless Apple teams up with a content provider or starts their own satellite service, I don't see them doing much more than what the aTV currently is.

The problem with putting in all of the goodies into the aTV without having a deal with a company like Comcast is that you lock out the other services.

If you put in an ATSC-only tuner, you miss out on cable/sat subscribers. If you put in ATSC-QAM, you miss out on premium cable/satellite subs. If you put in ATSC-QAM-Tru2Way-Dish-DirecTV, then you miss out on European/Asian buyers.

So either you open up the USB port(s) for 3rd party devices, or you pick the two or three options that make sense. Or if you're Apple, you zag when everyone else is zigging and work your own plan.

ft

[Tilpots]

This device sounds tasty, but it's not relevant to what the aTV is/does. Unless Apple teams up with a content provider or starts their own satellite service, I don't see them doing much more than what the aTV currently is.

Apple is a content provider. What they lack is a large delivery service (cable lines, sattelite service). They've partnered up pretty well with AT&T, so maybe they partner again for a delivery provider with a larger pipe than the internet. Honestly, though, I don't see this happening.

The problem with putting in all of the goodies into the aTV without having a deal with a company like Comcast is that you lock out the other services.

If you put in an ATSC-only tuner, you miss out on cable/sat subscribers. If you put in ATSC-QAM, you miss out on premium cable/satellite subs. If you put in ATSC-QAM-Tru2Way-Dish-DirecTV, then you miss out on European/Asian buyers.

I think they would only need to include and ATSC tuner for the free OTA content. Everything else could be purchased from iTunes, cutting the satellite/cable providers out of the loop. It may be US only initially, but the design would allow for other countries version of an ATSC tuner.

So either you open up the USB port(s) for 3rd party devices, or you pick the two or three options that make sense. Or if you're Apple, you zag when everyone else is zigging and work your own plan.

lol. That does sound like Apple. My problem with the 3rd parties is they will eventually be including enough of what the current :apple:TV does in their own devices (ViP 922, Western Digital TV, etc.) that there won't be a reason to ever buy the :apple:TV.



I understand the arguments folks are presenting. But, I know the TV business pretty well and have a pretty good idea of what consumers want. It's not impossible, it may be expensive, but until Apple provides a device to encompass all the aspects of the TV experience into one unit, their product will continue to lag in sales while other's products will continue to gain ground in this new market. They'll be forced to play catch up like evryone else did when they released the iPod.

[ftaok]

Apple is a content provider. What they lack is a large delivery service (cable lines, sattelite service). They've partnered up pretty well with AT&T, so maybe they partner again for a delivery provider with a larger pipe than the internet. Honestly, though, I don't see this happening.I was using "content provider" in terms of a MSP. So yeah, I agree with you here. If Apple does go down this road, then they'd have to partner up with a Comcast or Verizon or etc.

Not likely, I think.

I think they would only need to include and ATSC tuner for the free OTA content. Everything else could be purchased from iTunes, cutting the satellite/cable providers out of the loop. It may be US only initially, but the design would allow for other countries version of an ATSC tuner. Herein lies the rub. The market for an ATSC-only device is extremely limited. I don't have any numbers to support this, but I'll throw it out there anyways ... my guess is that most ATSC-only folks aren't in the target demographic set of an "AppleTV Plus".

lol. That does sound like Apple. My problem with the 3rd parties is they will eventually be including enough of what the current :apple:TV does in their own devices (ViP 922, Western Digital TV, etc.) that there won't be a reason to ever buy the :apple:TV.Well, my idea of 3rd party support was really more about El Gato. I'm sure if Apple opened up the aTV to allow for plug-ins and applications, El Gato would jump in.

I understand the arguments folks are presenting. But, I know the TV business pretty well and have a pretty good idea of what consumers want. It's not impossible, it may be expensive, but until Apple provides a device to encompass all the aspects of the TV experience into one unit, their product will continue to lag in sales while other's products will continue to gain ground in this new market. They'll be forced to play catch up like evryone else did when they released the iPod.Here's where I think Apple can do it. Right now, the aTV is basically a media extender, but it competes against other devices that offer the same services ... like the PS3/XBox360, the Roku/WD devices, Tivo, the Cable/Sat DVRs, etc. If Apple can come up with something novel and exciting (read game-changer), I think they can chart the direction for the media extender market-space.

For me, instead of adding hardware to the aTV, I would prefer they add software. Add streaming sites like Hulu and Netflix and MLB.tv ;) to the equation. Add internet widgets. Add simple games like Sodoku and Tetris. To me, these are all easy to do right now and can give the potential buyer more of a reason to buy.

Then, add something new so that everyone will want one. I have no idea what that something is, but I know that it's not BD functionality or DVR ability.

Just my .02

[Tilpots]

Here's where I think Apple can do it. Right now, the aTV is basically a media extender, but it competes against other devices that offer the same services ... like the PS3/XBox360, the Roku/WD devices, Tivo, the Cable/Sat DVRs, etc. If Apple can come up with something novel and exciting (read game-changer), I think they can chart the direction for the media extender market-space.

For me, instead of adding hardware to the aTV, I would prefer they add software. Add streaming sites like Hulu and Netflix and MLB.tv ;) to the equation. Add internet widgets. Add simple games like Sodoku and Tetris. To me, these are all easy to do right now and can give the potential buyer more of a reason to buy.

Then, add something new so that everyone will want one. I have no idea what that something is, but I know that it's not BD functionality or DVR ability.

Just my .02


I agree that the things you've mentioned here are extremely do-able and should be implemented post-haste, I just don't know that it will be enough to draw the public.

If Apple can make a device that eliminates the need for other TV devices (DVD players, DVR boxes, Gaming devices) and services (cable/satellilte, Netflix, Blockbuster) then I think that would be the game changer they need. People are willing to pay a one time (large) sum to completely cut out monthly subscriptions and the need to continually upgrade other devices.

Who knows what they're gonna do? Only time will tell. Stupid time!:p

[Rich1963]

Actually, the way to implement all of this, and keep it feeling decidedly Apple, AND still use the existing AppleTV, is to incorporate it at the iTunes end.

Think about this. Apple sells a device that is hooked up to the computer that already;) serves as your iTunes server. It has the capability of having your comcast/dish/directv feed hooked up to it. This can then be recorded into iTunes, or streamed to any of the AppleTVs around your house. Now that's more like Apple. You would also do all of your DVR activities into iTunes, allowing you to then watch what was recorded at any of your Apple TVs.

That's more the way Apple would do it.

[BaldiMac]

The only thing that keeps me from ditching my cable subscription in favor on an AppleTV is live sports on all of the ESPN channels. Everything else that I watch is available over the air or on iTunes.

[rayward]

Why not put all the hardware/software on the computer end, and just let the ATV be the sleek interface at the TV end? All the Mac would need would be a TV decoder dongle, and some DVR software. I wouldn't be surprised if it's all available right now through third parties, with the only thing missing being the Mac to ATV interface.