Newton Revival?

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret posts some brief notes (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes11.html) on various topics.

Of most interest is word of that one company (http://www.stonemultimedia.com/) is conducting a survey about Newton technology:

"We need to determine why the Apple Newton was not a commercial success and whether there is an interest in re-launching a new version of the Newton," the survey says. "Your comments will help understand why the Newton failed and if there is interest in re-launching a new, improved Newton."

The Apple Newton was first introduced in 1993 and essentially represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The Newton went through various revisions over the years but was discontinued in 1998.

Apple, however, retained the rights to all Newton related technology, and at least some has made it into Mac OS X (Inkwell).

Related Videos (Quicktime):

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Intelligent Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
Newton Trash (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)

[donniedarko]

ThinkSecret posts some brief notes (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes11.html) on various topics.

Of most interest is word of that one company (http://www.stonemultimedia.com/) is conducting a survey about Newton technology:



The Apple Newton was first introduced in 1993 and essentially represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The Newton went through various revisions over the years but was discontinued in 1998.

Apple, however, retained the rights to all Newton related technology, and at least some has made it into Mac OS X (Inkwell).

Related Videos (Quicktime):

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Intelligent Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
Newton Trash (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)

Bring it...I am over Palm

[mproud]

Ah the Newton.

It still lives on today. It has a cult following.

I would buy a new Newton if Apple developed one. I'd be willing to pay up to $300 for goodies like AirPort WiFi, Inkwell, and Bluetooth along with a huge storage device and decent battery life. It could be done.

[squatch]

Even if Apple decided to come back out with a "Newton II", are most of the original Newton designers still at Apple? Or did they all migrate over to Palm and share with them all the great secrets? That is a big factor on whether the "Newton II" if reintroduced would be a success or not.

[Awimoway]

We all know R&D has tons of goodies that will never see the light of day. So this doesn't necessarily mean anything. :o

But one can't help but wonder if maybe Jobs is willing to rethink his position on the PDA--it may not be for him, but perhaps it would sell to a certain sector of the market in sufficient numbers. It's shocking, really. What's next? An Apple-branded multi-button mouse? Dubya taking an interest in renewable alternatives to fossil fuels?

Are we prepared to live in a world where powerful men are capable of admitting that they might be wrong? :eek:

[Foocha]

Who are these Stone Multimedia guys anyway, and why assume that they have either: a. any connection with Apple, or b. the ability to develop their own "Newton" type project.

From their Web site they appear to design & produce CDROMs - they're not a research outfit, so it seems unlikely that they are asking this question at Apple's instigation.

I too would love to get my hands on a new PDA from Apple - Palm OS is looking increasingly long in the tooth, and their recent announcement about ending support for Mac OS X is disappoint. I suspect that my next PDA will be from Sony Ericsson.

[elo]

I think the big thing was that we didn't yet know why we needed it. The market for PDA's was so new that it was almost necessary to have a product fail, so that the next product didn't seem so revolutionary.

Of course, things have changed again. PDA's were an important market, but we are now seeing a bit of gaget proliferation. Everyone has a cell phone and most people have an iPod. A PDA, then, is a third device that people must carry, and for most of us, it's too much. That's why phones with PDA functionality are starting to catch on, and I think that trend is only just beginning. Were Apple to reconsider the Newton, I would hope that it would be a phone with PDA functionality, possibly also including iPod functionality. Windows compatibility (in addition, of course to Mac compatibility) is essential.

elo

[MacsRgr8]

???

I thought Apple wouldn't try to re-enter the PDA market...

Still, I hope they do. I would like a PDA which would work flawlessly with Mac OS X... (not that I own one now, but I heard of many people having touble syncing their PDAs with their Macs)

[gola]

Personally I don´t think the PDA idea has much of a future anymore. The extended mobile phone or extended ipod might still generate some interest.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Maybe Steve Jobs is right - Apple will NEVER produce another PDA...

...Instead of calling it a PDA, it will be known under a DIFFERENT name - hence, "Think Different".

i.e. - the Digital Hub Key (DHK)?

Roughly the same size as the old Newton, it could have the added benefits of Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and infra-red capability - all now industry standards. AND - perhaps FireWire and Quicktime - ideal for watching anamorphic video streams on its colour touch-sensitive screen. Hell - if THAT were the case, I'd use it as an off-air video monitor from my camera on shoots!

I've still got my Apple Newton - and love it to bits. I bought it in San Francisco for around $600 in 1994 - and it STILL has features that leaves Palm devices in the cold. Now, 10 years later, I shudder to think what can be crammed into such a device.

And as far as recommending purchasing a NEW variety of Newton if one was developed? You bet your ass I'd get one...

:D

[johnnyjibbs]

The problem is, inkwell doesn't work that well on Mac OS X I don't think. If I had to rely on it I might go nuts.

[ipiloot]

Some years ago I was very active Newton user and also active in newsgroup. Possibly in year 2001 there was a discussion about the possibility to remake the Newton with new interface and all the cool technologies it had inside. From technical point of view, some consider NewtonOS to be the most modern OS ever developed. Incl. desktop OS-s. From technical point of view it far surpassed even OSX. I managed to teach Newton to understand Estonian. And it's handwriting reckognition far surpassed anything available from any other maker. I have heard that TabletPC nowadays offers at least as good hwr, but I haven't tested it. At least PocketPC-s HWR is not usable at all.

It may be that someone just picked up the idea and wants to create "their own newton". I don't believe that Apple is somehow connected to that. PDA market is a falling-one and Apple doesn't enter falling markets. There's no point in creating a machine to satisfy some 200+ Newton fans left.

There were many reason, why it failed.

Technical - it went on market untested and unreliable and got it's "doomed" mark there
Marketing - after the initial failure Apple didn't wat to spend money on selling Newton
Device itself - while otherwise superior, it was far to clumsy for businessman to carry on
Competition - Palm offered device that was "good enough": not as capable, but cheap and small
Financial - the Newton drew money out of the company in millions


And that's not all. It was a good idea in right time, but Sculley first overhyped it and then delivered lackluster product. Only with MP130 Newton started to resemble what it was meant to be from the start. And with MP200/2100 it started to be a real good product. But it was still too expensive and sold for less than it was to produce.

[ipiloot]

Roughly the same size as the old Newton, it could have the added benefits of Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and infra-red capability - all now industry standards. AND - perhaps FireWire and Quicktime - ideal for watching anamorphic video streams on its colour touch-sensitive screen. Hell - if THAT were the case, I'd use it as an off-air video monitor from my camera on shoots!



About the list that you provided - what's from there is missing from nowaday's PDa-s that you REALLY need.

Only firewire and USB hubs are missing, but in case of those, driver issues arise. And today one can buy a USB hub for he's PDA, provided that the device has CF slot. firewire in PDA does not make much sense. Does it?

[kiwi_the_iwik]

firewire in PDA does not make much sense. Does it?

Well, actually - it does. Especially now thanks to miniature high-volume hard drives such as those residing in the iPod. That's why Steve Jobs probably wants to break the mould regarding PDAs completely. Who needs a PDA when you can have a portable mass storage device that does ALL of the above - AND tons more?

PDAs today have reached the maximum level of PDAdom. Time to move on to something more PRACTICAL for video/audio/word processing/spreadsheet/presentation work.

Wouldn't it be grand for any executive to load in a PowerPoint presentation to their new DHK (sorry - I've seemed to adapt that name now...!), take it with them to the boardroom, and connect it directly to the video projector, hit "Play", and conduct their presentation with considerable ease?

Or even someone who needs to precis a document on the road - say, a speechwriter - and then load it directly into the autocue at the other end?

Or if on a plane - bored out of existence - wouldn't it be nice to watch one of your pre-loaded movies, or to carry a portable Bus-powered DVD drive with you for the long-hauls? The screen would be the PERFECT size...

They could even incorporate a rough version of iMovie, iTunes or even GarageBand (for musicians on the fly). It'd be a lot smaller than a laptop, but convenient enough to take anywhere, and powerful enough to get you out of trouble. It'd be the ideal DJ accompaniment on gigs, or a sequencer for musos. Full plug-and-play capability.

So - I reckon FireWire WOULD be an essential tool. After all - Apple DID co-develop it, and it WOULD be a waste not to include it. Fast data transfers, connectivity to other units and peripherals, and not a big space-taker (just look at the iPod - THAT'S got one...).

End of story.

;)

[Nermal]

Maybe Steve Jobs is right - Apple will NEVER produce another PDA...

...Instead of calling it a PDA, it will be known under a DIFFERENT name - hence, "Think Different".

i.e. - the Digital Hub Key (DHK)?

Remember, the original Newton wasn't a PDA, it was a Communications Assistant.

[arn]

Remember, the original Newton wasn't a PDA, it was a Communications Assistant.

er... I'm pretty sure the original Newton was a PDA. Scully coined the term with respect to the original newton.

arn

[arn]

er... I'm pretty sure the original Newton was a PDA. Scully coined the term with respect to the original newton.


here's a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_digital_assistant

The term personal digital assistant was coined on 7 January 1992 by John Sculley at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, Nevada, referring to the Apple Newton.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Remember, the original Newton wasn't a PDA, it was a Communications Assistant.

Yeah - but it was the first of its kind - and was lumbered into the same category of the Palm Pilots, and the Sharp and Psion Organisers.

However, for its time, it was revolutionary - other PDAs had not even HALF the features of the Newton. Its connectivity, handwriting recognition and storage abilities were second-to-none. It's little wonder that Apple are extremely cautious when it's mentioned they may re-enter the arena. Their product has to be unparalleled - which is no mean feat, considering the competition. But their handwriting capability is still ahead of the game, and that could be the key - so, along with the current storage size and connectivity options, any new device would be an eye-opener.

As for driver issues, I don't think that FireWire drivers are a problem - after all, they are CERTAINLY NOT an issue with an iPod, so why on EARTH would they be an issue with a DHK?

[AndrewMT]

I think the big thing was that we didn't yet know why we needed it. The market for PDA's was so new that it was almost necessary to have a product fail, so that the next product didn't seem so revolutionary.

Of course, things have changed again. PDA's were an important market, but we are now seeing a bit of gaget proliferation. Everyone has a cell phone and most people have an iPod. A PDA, then, is a third device that people must carry, and for most of us, it's too much. That's why phones with PDA functionality are starting to catch on, and I think that trend is only just beginning. Were Apple to reconsider the Newton, I would hope that it would be a phone with PDA functionality, possibly also including iPod functionality. Windows compatibility (in addition, of course to Mac compatibility) is essential.

elo

I agree with you 100%. I would also like to state that if Apple were to release a PDA/Phone, it would need >1GB storage and a keyboard. It's pretty lame "surfing" the internet and chatting with friends on a PDA/Phone without a keyboard.

[arn]

Yeah - but it was the first of its kind - and was lumbered into the same category of the Palm Pilots, and the Sharp and Psion Organisers.

Palm Pilots came after the Newton.

arn

[AndrewMT]

Well, actually - it does. Especially now thanks to miniature high-volume hard drives such as those residing in the iPod. That's why Steve Jobs probably wants to break the mould regarding PDAs completely. Who needs a PDA when you can have a portable mass storage device that does ALL of the above - AND tons more?

PDAs today have reached the maximum level of PDAdom. Time to move on to something more PRACTICAL for video/audio/word processing/spreadsheet/presentation work.

Wouldn't it be grand for any executive to load in a PowerPoint presentation to their new DHK (sorry - I've seemed to adapt that name now...!), take it with them to the boardroom, and connect it directly to the video projector, hit "Play", and conduct their presentation with considerable ease?

Or even someone who needs to precis a document on the road - say, a speechwriter - and then load it directly into the autocue at the other end?

Or if on a plane - bored out of existence - wouldn't it be nice to watch one of your pre-loaded movies, or to carry a portable Bus-powered DVD drive with you for the long-hauls? The screen would be the PERFECT size...

They could even incorporate a rough version of iMovie, iTunes or even GarageBand (for musicians on the fly). It'd be a lot smaller than a laptop, but convenient enough to take anywhere, and powerful enough to get you out of trouble. It'd be the ideal DJ accompaniment on gigs, or a sequencer for musos. Full plug-and-play capability.

So - I reckon FireWire WOULD be an essential tool. After all - Apple DID co-develop it, and it WOULD be a waste not to include it. Fast data transfers, connectivity to other units and peripherals, and not a big space-taker (just look at the iPod - THAT'S got one...).

End of story.

;)

I'm afraid a sub-notebook could achieve many of these tasks with greater ease. I think the most important functions that should be added to the PDA are voice communication, internet, instant messaging, music storage/playback (hard drive required), and games.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Palm Pilots came after the Newton.

arn

Yeah - I know. But the TERM PDA didn't really arrive until the Palm devices, by which time the Newton had then been inducted into that category by default.

[Analog Kid]

Well, actually - it does. Especially now thanks to miniature high-volume hard drives such as those residing in the iPod. That's why Steve Jobs probably wants to break the mould regarding PDAs completely. Who needs a PDA when you can have a portable mass storage device that does ALL of the above - AND tons more?
Personally, I don't think Apple is planning to resurrect the Newton, but if they did the Firewire would be essential. Most of the functionality you mention though exceeds what FireWire can do though... and there's no way the iLife apps would run on something with less power than a laptop.

If FireWire did anything it would be there to support "home on your iPod". Keep your home directory and settings on the device and have your life on any machine you plug into.

Plugging in could automatically "fast user switch" to the home directory on the device.

Between dockings the PDA capability would let you run iCal, Mail, TextEdit and interact with basic file types. Your files would sync because, well, they're in your hand.

I agree with the calls to keep iPod functionality and maybe add GSM and a bluetooth headset to cut down the stormtrooper belt phenomena...

Nice to think about, but I still think Apple's been bitten once and is sure to be twice shy...

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I'm afraid a sub-notebook could achieve many of these tasks with greater ease. I think the most important functions that should be added to the PDA are voice communication, internet, instant messaging, music storage/playback (hard drive required), and games.

Don't you think it SHOULD come down to convenience?

i.e.:

TWO hands - and a lap, of course - for a laptop (or SUB-laptop),
ONE hand for a DHK, the other for a stylus.

Also - it would be CONSIDERABLY cheaper, AND more portable, than its laptop counterpart. Dare I say it - there's a time when laptops are just too darn bulky. Let's bridge the gap. The PDA market is successful, because the devices are easier to manage than the laptop. It's just unfortunate that the size really isn't practical enough for many purposes, and the processors just can't handle big events.

With the introduction of something that covers the "Middle Ground", you'll find that the market will be there. It could even become the next generation of iPods, complete with Video as well as Audio.

Oh, well - you can always dream, can't you?!?



:)

[hvfsl]

If Apple does do a new Newton, I think it should have the following specs:

About the size of an iPaq
4GB Hard Disk (same as iPod Mini)
Colour screen with resolution of 640x480
Special version of Mac OS X for PDAs
400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Optional Wifi/Bluetooth of course

[johnnyjibbs]

"Personal digital assistant", "Communications assistant" - what's it matter? They are just names. Most average people do not know what PDA means anyway.

Firewire would destroy the wirelessness that makes it convenient, but I guess they could stick it on there in addition to BlueTooth because it is much faster.

Portable GarageBand? I don't think so. A 1GHz G4 can only just cope with that. A PDA would have no chance. Plus, the 12" PB is hardly that much bigger really. And people complain about the screen real estate on this machine!

I'm still not sure about PDAs. iPod and digital music players are good because they give you time out. PDAs are complicated and limited. Of course, Apple would be the one to redefine the PDA, but I'm still not sure Jobs will go for it.

[Savage Henry]

I'm still suspicious of whether Apple will enter this market again. The sentiment of consumers already having a handheld device for both hands already and therefore it'll have to carry phone/iPod features, is one I agree with. But with the iPod product line already approaching saturation level, I just can't see there being much future for a PDA that can play a few songs.

I'm a Mac fan, rasonable amount of cash lying around and I need organising. But with the sort of PDAs out there at the moment, Apple are going to have to do something pretty amazing to make me consider one seriously. The PDA market needs to have settled for Apple to blow it all away. I don't think it has, and so I don't think they will.

Oh well. Maybe another year or so.

[nagromme]

I'd pay something for a full OS X in my pocket. It would let me leave my PowerBook at home (even a subnotebook is something else to carry--unlike a pocketable device) and yet if something came up, I wouldn't be stuck with nothing.

Boy am I sick of lugging my PowerBook along "just in case"!

That said, I don't see this little Newton survey as evidence of anything.

[mactarkus]

Whatever it is, I hope it eliminates a device on my belt or in my briefcase and not add one. Years ago, I swore by my Newton MessagePads. I had a 120 and then a 2000 and finished with a 2100. Eventually, I migrated to a Palm V and as cellphones came down in price I started carrying one of those too. Add a 5GB iPod to the mix and now my device count was 3. I'm now carrying a Hiptop/Sidekick and my miniPod. Device count is down to 2 but the HT/SK doesn't have near the PDA capability that either my Palm or my Newton had, but I'll sacrifice capability for convenience, size, and simplicity. I would love if Apple would take that number down to one with a device which is usable as my PDA/MP3 Player/Cellphone. With this platform they could add the video playing capability as well. This all points to a subnotebook and a version of Mac OS X. To be honest, this thing would have to be big enough to make it too big to be a marketable cellphone. People are used to cellphones getting smaller despite more functions. So maybe I'll settle for a PDA/MP3/Video device which can surf the net via Airport. Apple should take a hard look at those cool little Clies.

I'm afraid a sub-notebook could achieve many of these tasks with greater ease. I think the most important functions that should be added to the PDA are voice communication, internet, instant messaging, music storage/playback (hard drive required), and games.

[Bendit]

I would buy a new Newton if Apple developed one. I'd be willing to pay up to $300 for goodies like AirPort WiFi, Inkwell, and Bluetooth along with a huge storage device and decent battery life. It could be done.
hahahaha

If apple made a newton it would be priced higher then the most expensive pocket pcs.

It would be nowhere near your $300 price point.

I am guessing more like $900.

[Bendit]

PDAs are doing bad. Apple won't dable into this. They would be much more likely to add more light PDA features to the iPod.

PDAs eat too much into the laptop market and vice versa.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Nice to see that my GarageBand comment touched a nerve, there!

What I was referring to was a cut-down version to take on the road - nowhere NEAR the capabilities of a desktop, but enough to control a MIDI setup, and a number of sequences, thanks to its ability to READ GarageBand data. Add to that, a nice, big 40Gig. Hard Drive, basic Quicktime Video Player that accepts an analog input source, AND iTunes, iPhoto and Office support - as well as FireWire, of course - then you'd have one helluva unit.

Now - you can't deny THAT would be something special...

Anyway - who NEEDS an integrated cellphone? A PCMCIA card slot could provide optional Airport compatibility. I, for one, wouldn't want to put some MOTHER of a device to my ear just to get my voicemail!

[Stella]

The PDA market is dying, this can be seen by market treads already. Apple should instead make a newton smartphone - this is the emerging market.

[Bear]

If Apple does do a new Newton, I think it should have the following specs:

About the size of an iPaq
4GB Hard Disk (same as iPod Mini)
Colour screen with resolution of 640x480
Special version of Mac OS X for PDAs
400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Optional Wifi/Bluetooth of courseHow about Airport [Extreme]?

And better yet instead of a 4GB disk, something like 20 to 40GB so you don't have to carry an iPod and a PDA. I'm not carrying a PDA now. Being able to look up calendar and address stuff on the iPod makes it not as important that I have a PDA.

[the_mole1314]

Hey you guys, remeber 'Home on the iPod' that used to be in Panther. What about 'Home on Newton' and have your whole life on your Newton. Access videos, music, and files on it. It's not a PDA, it's your Mac in your pocket. If this happens, my guess for specs...

-500mhz G3 (mabey more, don't know)
-80 Gig Hard Drive
-Color LCD size of device
-Bluetooth
-Firewire
-802.11g
-Runs MacOSX Mobile (think OSX miniturized)
-AV Out to TV to show presentations, video, and photos.

Here's my marketing slogan: 'Your iLife In Your Pocket'

[Namacste]

I don't get it. How would the research company have gotten a hold of former Newton users?

It's possible they could have asked people who remember the Newton (but never actually owned one), but why should Apple care about their opinion?

In marketing research parlance this survey is at risk of committing an "over demanding recall" error at the very least.

[eSnow]

I think this should be a page 2 rumor - chances are extremely slim this has anything to do with Apple. They would use a market research company to test consumer interest. And I hope, they would be prudent enough not to sink more millions in the PDA market at the time where it more and more is merged with the cell phone market.
There would be some sense in merging the iPod with a PDA, but only if it gets a much improved (larger, higher def, color) screen. But that's about it. Newton is not coming back.

[Uragon]

Even if Apple decided to come back out with a "Newton II", are most of the original Newton designers still at Apple? Or did they all migrate over to Palm and share with them all the great secrets? That is a big factor on whether the "Newton II" if reintroduced would be a success or not.

No worries here, once Apple decided to go ahead with NewtonII, they will migrate back to Apple. :)

[uzombie]

If Apple does do a new Newton, I think it should have the following specs:

About the size of an iPaq
4GB Hard Disk (same as iPod Mini)
Colour screen with resolution of 640x480
Special version of Mac OS X for PDAs
400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Optional Wifi/Bluetooth of course

I'd like to suggest it have a colour screen res much higher than 640x480.
And be able to jack-in to an auto's on-board computer for diags and "tuning". OLED screen. And no textured paint please...I hate the fact it peeled off my last Newton. Something along the lines of, a Tektronics test unit.

Unless they opt for something as small as an iPod (aka iBroke).

[CalfCanuck]

PDAs are doing bad. Apple won't dable into this. They would be much more likely to add more light PDA features to the iPod.

PDAs eat too much into the laptop market and vice versa.
I totally agree. Why jump into a market where you've been beaten once already, and where the current key players are struggling to survive? Esp. when you've made some bold steps and captured the lead in a dynamic and growing markets (iPod / digital music)?

Companies like Apple have limited resources and funds. The question is what they'd have to forego to get thrashed a second time in the PDA market.

I give this a low probability of seeing the light of day.

[moosecat]

The Stone Multimedia site doesn't come up for me, and a Google search reveals zero mentions of any such company.

Isn't this fishy?

[sushi]

But with the iPod product line already approaching saturation level, I just can't see there being much future for a PDA that can play a few songs.
Saturation, as in market saturation?

Where did you hear this? Source please.

Sushi

[DrGruv1]

Apple Newest Device:

The New "Triple P/V"

Phone
PDA
Pod
Video

Only $499

Availble June 2030:)

[Photorun]

LOOK! There! On the horizon! Pigs flying!!! Oh... oh no wait, it's just specs of dust on my contacts. Sorry. False alarm.

[1macker1]

I think the smart phones have killed the PDA.

(anyone have a pic of a Newton)

[j33pd0g]

Wouldn't newton II dip into laptop sales? Maybe Apple would be more beneficial incorporating this handwriting technology into their laptops.

[MTMacPhee]

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9222005703.html

Mike

[RIP]

Some years ago I was very active Newton user and also active in newsgroup. Possibly in year 2001 there was a discussion about the possibility to remake the Newton with new interface and all the cool technologies it had inside. From technical point of view, some consider NewtonOS to be the most modern OS ever developed. Incl. desktop OS-s. From technical point of view it far surpassed even OSX. I managed to teach Newton to understand Estonian. And it's handwriting reckognition far surpassed anything available from any other maker. I have heard that TabletPC nowadays offers at least as good hwr, but I haven't tested it. At least PocketPC-s HWR is not usable at all.

It may be that someone just picked up the idea and wants to create "their own newton". I don't believe that Apple is somehow connected to that. PDA market is a falling-one and Apple doesn't enter falling markets. There's no point in creating a machine to satisfy some 200+ Newton fans left.

There were many reason, why it failed.

Technical - it went on market untested and unreliable and got it's "doomed" mark there
Marketing - after the initial failure Apple didn't wat to spend money on selling Newton
Device itself - while otherwise superior, it was far to clumsy for businessman to carry on
Competition - Palm offered device that was "good enough": not as capable, but cheap and small
Financial - the Newton drew money out of the company in millions


And that's not all. It was a good idea in right time, but Sculley first overhyped it and then delivered lackluster product. Only with MP130 Newton started to resemble what it was meant to be from the start. And with MP200/2100 it started to be a real good product. But it was still too expensive and sold for less than it was to produce.

I disagree to some degree. The Newton failed because its concept was not clearly defined. People didn't understand what it could do and Apple did an awful job explaining it. Therefore, people saw it as only a 900 dollar address book although it was a whole lot more. The value simply was not understood. Anyone who actually used one for any period of time figured it out and hence the "cult" following of today. Also remember that is did succeed in the vertical markets. I do agree however that our market is dictated by makers of products that are "just good enough" and while the Palm Pilot was just that, it has evolved into a nice package. A far cry from the Netwon, but what isn't today?

I think Apple could take a Newton 2K of yesterday and package it in a TT3 style package, use off-the-shelf components ala the iPod to keep cost down, and have a hit. For that matter, there probably is no reason the NewtonOS couldn't be adapted to operate on a Palm TT3. It meets or exceeds at all technical aspects and the cost of the hardware would become even less due to the fact that 2 vendors are now using that hardware platform. For those that don't know, the TT3 is made by ASUS, using PocketPC components.

I would use my Newton today if it weren't for the difficulty making it communicate with the rest of the world. I fire it up now and again to remember where we should be, philosophically, in handheld computing.

I think to make a Newton II survive in today's marketplace it would have to be priced no higher than the Palm TT3, be no larger than the TT3, and include cellular technology to take advantage of all the communication capabilities of the Newton OS. I would give up my TT3 before I cold finish a thought if Apple released a new Newt.

[SubGothius]

Whatever it is, I hope it eliminates a device on my belt or in my briefcase and not add one ... I'm now carrying a Hiptop/Sidekick and my miniPod. Device count is down to 2 but the HT/SK doesn't have near the PDA capability that either my Palm or my Newton had, but I'll sacrifice capability for convenience, size, and simplicity. I would love if Apple would take that number down to one with a device which is usable as my PDA/MP3 Player/Cellphone. With this platform they could add the video playing capability as well. To be honest, this thing would have to be big enough to make it too big to be a marketable cellphone.I'm with you on the potential value, and market interest, of a Newton that consolidates several portable devices into one, and the more integration, the better and more compelling this device would be. In keeping with Apple's i/Power prefixing theme to distinguish consumer from pro lines, the name "Newton PowerPod" comes to mind, but they could also go with "iNewton" and "PowerNewton" if they wanted two distinct devices for consumers and pros. However, IMHO, it would need to be smaller than the original Newton MP1x0 series, nevermind the 2x00 (I think the originals' bulky size was a likely point of market resistance, a point borne out by Palm's subsequent success), yet not much larger than an iPod, Palm PDA, or HipTop/SideKick.

I'm thinking of something resembling a slightly larger iPod, about 3x5" index card size, with the screen extending almost to the very edges of the front face where a slim protective raised border/frame surrounds the screen edges (i.e., no extra frame space on any edge, unlike the original Newtons or any Palm). Much larger than that would be ungainly and hurt market potential, but smaller would be too small for a practical media-watching screen size. Picture the iPod's stainless steel backside "bucket", but a bit larger (again, ~3x5" index card size), with the entire front face nearly-filled by a decent-resolution color screen (rather than the iPod's partial-face screen above an array of buttons and the touchwheel).

IMHO, the OS/GUI should be more like NewtonOS (which was specifically designed for portable-size use with a stylus), albeit modernized with an Aqua-fied/Quartz-ite appearance (making impressive use of the nice, high-res color screen), rather than some stunted/shrunken version of Mac OS X and Aqua, proper (which was specifically designed with ever-expanding desktop and laptop display resolutions in mind)--OS X's underlying tech could be applied to the guts of the OS, but the GUI itself should be more like NewtonOS. Phone and iPod controls could simply be displayed on the touch-sensitive screen (think: virtual iPod!)--better yet with voice-controllable phone (and iPod?) functions.

Since the device would incorporate music-playing functions, it would obviously come with headphones (perhaps bluetooth?), which would serve double-duty for phone use and allow you to leave the device itself in your pocket, holster, etc. A mic could easily fit on the earbuds' mini-remote (or even be integrated into one of the earbuds, Jabra-style), and the music could be set to mute whenever you get or make a call. Another idea I once had was that the stylus (telescoping-style like the original Newton styli) could serve as a bluetooth phone handset--get a call, pull out the stylus and extend it to full length, hold it up to the side of your face and talk!

An optional keyboard would also be nice (the old Newton keyboard was about perfect), yet the main device itself should be smaller than the keyboard--perhaps just enough size difference to also allow an optional bluetooth mouse to fit alongside the main unit and both facing the keyboard when not in use, so they could all be connected and folded together to make a tightly integrated, portable package, like this crude ASCII diagram (viewed along the bottom edge of the keyboard on the bottom, the long edge of the main unit and short edge of the mouse on top):
___________________
|_____________|____|
|__________________|

Well, whadaya think o' them Apples?
:D

[dex22]

400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Most embedded ARM options include an LCD controller and VIDC that is quite capable of anything a 640x480 LCD can offer. Why pay chipset and licensing fees to ATI for something that is already included?

I have on the next desk an Acorn RiscPC with StrongARM and VIDC and the graphics capabilities are pretty good (1600x1200x24bit) not at all bad for an embedded processor. Also, most small LCDs can handle very low frame rates and variable frame rates... (The Acorn was the first Risc PC, despite Apple's claims. Acorn sued Apple and won) :D

Ironically, Acorn had quite close ties to PSION, who contrary to the opinion given in the first post, were the people to first mass-market a PDA device in the 80's... :cool:

[atari1356]

I would use my Newton today if it weren't for the difficulty making it communicate with the rest of the world. I fire it up now and again to remember where we should be, philosophically, in handheld computing.

Someone care to explain why Newton's were so great? I know the handwriting recognition was better than that of Palm handhelds... but other than that, what made them so much better? Is this just Apple fandom, or was it really that revolutionary? (I've never used one, so I just don't know much about them.)

I'd be happy with an iPod mini with a stylus and Inkwell handwriting recognition. They wouldn't even need to add much in the way of other software, just allow the user to enter new contacts and edit their calendar.

[RIP]

http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9222005703.html

Mike


Just like Linux, it's hideous!! :eek:

[SubGothius]

The Newton didn't "fail", and Apple wasn't "beaten" in the PDA market; if anything, the Newton was just beginning to realize its potential. Apple only stopped production of the Newton when Steve came back to save Apple's sinking ship and decided to refocus co. resources on absolute bare-minimum essential products necessary to get the co. healthy again: two desktops (iMac and PowerMac) and two laptops (iBook and PowerBook), no mas. Since Apple isn't in such dire straits (cue "Money for Nothing" :D ) as it was when Steve re-seized the helm, they can now afford to consider expanding to other, more speculative product lines, the iPod being the first notable example (perhaps of many more to come?).

BTW, we might also consider the possibility that the co. doing this research isn't doing it on behalf of Apple but, rather, may be weighing the potential value of making Apple an offer to buy or license Newton technology for their own, independent production (remember that Sharp and others had licensed NewtonOS for their own proto-PDAs, back in Tha Daye).

[RIP]

Someone care to explain why Newton's were so great? I know the handwriting recognition was better than that of Palm handhelds... but other than that, what made them so much better? Is this just Apple fandom, or was it really that revolutionary? (I've never used one, so I just don't know much about them.)

I'd be happy with an iPod mini with a stylus and Inkwell handwriting recognition. They wouldn't even need to add much in the way of other software, just allow the user to enter new contacts and edit their calendar.

It's the way it worked. It actually interacted and learned about you. But as a single example one of the cool "working" abilities were the "assist" button. For instance. You could be in a meeting taking notes in notepad. Suddenly it comes to your attention that you need to schedule a reminder about something. While in notepad you simply write in plain handwriting "remember to meet with Brian at 10am on Feb 5th about the new manufacturing process". You would then press the assist button and the Newton would then create for you a to-do item, for 10 am on the 5th of Feb. with notes to meet with Brian about the Manufacturing process while never leaving the notepad. While it is not more difficult really to leave one application to go to another to add that info and then return the previous app, there is the "human" aspect of the way the Newton worked that is amazing and intelligent. It has to be experienced to really appreciate. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Would someone with a better memory than I jump in here and assist with this question.

[Wonder Boy]

i have a handspring and never use it. i'd buy and apple cell phone but not a pda. i dont use them enough. even if the new newton was a pda/phone i wouldnt get one. one of the things i like about my cell is that it is simple. i press the numbers, then send, and im connected. no text messages, no confusing interface. very staight forward. plus, if i had a butchered version of os x on a handheld device, i would feel limited with its functionality. i want to do everything (games,dreamweaver, ect), everywhere.

in summery-
apple pda- no
apple cell phone- yes
apple pda/sell phone- no
amerosa's own talk show- NO

[painandgreed]

As pointed out, the PDA market is dryign up because of smart phones. Most of the features that people want in a new device can be found in a subnotebook. I think there needs to be a subnotebook that works on flash memory (perhaps with a a drive like the iPod) so it can turn on and off like a PDA. Subnotebooks are great but near useless because they still are too big and heavy and take too long to turn on and off. If there was a device that could record voices, type text, recognise handwriting, and was large enough to write on like paper that could be used at will, I think it would open up a new market between PDAs and notebooks.

[Kid Red]

The stone site doesn't load in Safari for me.

[sinisterdesign]

Bring it...I am over Palm

i'll second that.

[bree]

Geez. Doesn't anybody remember the eMate?
The PDA market is shrinking, so forget that. Make an ultra-portable laptop with newton tech. revive the eMate.
Now THAT would be a blockbuster.

[IJ Reilly]

The PDA market is dying, this can be seen by market treads already. Apple should instead make a newton smartphone - this is the emerging market.

Agreed. No matter what it's called, I'd like to see Apple offer an alternative to Symbian. Nobody makes money selling PDAs and it would be downright stupid for Apple to take another run at this market. That being said, for sheer ease of use, functionality and elegance, my MP 120 surpassed anything that came after it, and I'd never have bought a Palm device if Apple had shrunk the Newt and made it less expensive. Not that Apple could have made a better show of it than Palm in terms of making it profitably. A mobility OS based on Newton and QuickTime technologies -- that's the ticket!

[Lepton]

There was only one thing wrong with the device in its time: Form factor. It was too big. It wouldn't fit in most pockets, so you couldn't take it along mindlessly like a Palm - you had to make accomodations to carry it, and so you couldn't use it regularly on impulse. And if they had continued development, it would have gotten a lot smaller very soon. They were in the process of shrinking the circuits way down.

Today, I don't think the thing to do is revive the Newton OS - even though I could go on and on an on about how great that OS was. I especially loved its file system/database. Today Apple needs to make a very small Mac with a real Mac OSX in it. AirPort Extreme is the only I/O it needs, though I'd accept USB2 or 4-pin firewire. No keyboard, inkwell, stylus, 40-60GB hard disk internal or in the only slot, 640x480 pixels minimum, and basically the whole of Max OSX. Ironically, my favorite form factor today would be the size of a DVD case because I'm convinced a good-sized screen is important, but these days making the whole thing pocket sized is very possible. The only technical problem is battery life. As for price I pretty much don't care. No need to make this device cheap, just to make it available and high quality.

[IJ Reilly]

Someone care to explain why Newton's were so great? I know the handwriting recognition was better than that of Palm handhelds... but other than that, what made them so much better? Is this just Apple fandom, or was it really that revolutionary? (I've never used one, so I just don't know much about them.)

The Newton is to the Palm what the Mac is to Windows. They both do more or less the same thing, but one does it with far more elegance and refinement. It's always painful to see a stone axe beat a laser beam, but as they say in warfare, sometimes quantity becomes quality.

[niter]

I never saw the necessity for a PDA until recently. My iBook 12" is ultra portable and since it is so stable I can open it and input into iCal instantly. This was not really possible with XP as it took too long for me and my PC laptop was so heavy I hated carrying it around.

However, I recently found a reason not to carry my laptop around....I work in a chemical lab and we had a fire in which a lot of the yellow silt that came out the extinguisher (a chemical fire set up) settled on my iBook. I also have the opportunity to get an old PowerMac at my desk with Panther. Thus, I could use .Mac to upload all my imporant files and then access them at my desk at work. I could stop bringing my laptop to work and I could use a PDA for those away from work and home situation...(ie: class and group meetings).

Imagine an Apple PDA that not only could sync and use wireless LAN, but one that could access .Mac. I think that would be increase the ultility of .Mac also.

[PBGPowerbook]

Is GSM popular enough in North America that people in general would buy a "newton phone?" Europe/Asia get phones way before we do usually, so would this be released overseas first? Any mobile phone experts out there...?

[CalfCanuck]

Ironically, my favorite form factor today would be the size of a DVD case because I'm convinced a good-sized screen is important, but these days making the whole thing pocket sized is very possible. The only technical problem is battery life. As for price I pretty much don't care. No need to make this device cheap, just to make it available and high quality.
Nice ideas - yeah, a small SERIOUS device (not PDA) would be welcome. Many of us here have dropped serious cash on all sorts of solutions (I think of HD backups for my mobile digital photography need) where a small screen, decent storage space, an acceptable i/o, and portability are the key.

And you're right to skip the bottomfeeders - let them buy 100 oz. boxes of crap at Samsclub. Focus on solving portable needs with a limited but still powerful device, and there's enough of a market out there to make people happy.

[Mac Dummy]

The problem is, inkwell doesn't work that well on Mac OS X I don't think. If I had to rely on it I might go nuts.

I was using Inkwell the other day with my Wacom tablet in OS X and it was working better than I expected. I wish Microsoft give the Pocket PC OS handwriting recognition, Inkwell's functionality and recognition capabilities. Because right now the PPC's handwriting recognition sucks! :mad:

Apple might give a future Ipod, Newton-like qualities though. :)

[youngjake]

Saturation, as in market saturation?

Where did you hear this? Source please.

Sushi

Agreed.

I certainly know more people who lust after my ipod than those who have one. Besides, when did the walkman market become saturated? The discman? IMO they didn't, because there are always KIDS who want these things. Kids/teenagers are a huge market. The key, however, is to stay on top of the portable music market, and not get wiped out like the discman has from next gen. portable MP3 players.

As far as a Newton II goes, while i certainly can see apple doing research, I don't believe this is the right time. I do not know people lusting after pdas. I see more people lusting after cell phones.

A cellphone/mp3 player with style and ipod ease of use would be the way to get into the "communications gadget" market (think kids/teenagers). I say market something simple like this first, and then add the pda features later.

[wrylachlan]

My $0.02

There are two basic classes of users for these portable devices.1) People who carry a briefcase. 2)People that don't.

People who don't generally carry a briefcase/bag/etc. are never going to accept a product that is larger than pocket sized, since it changes their behavior pattern.

People who do carry some sort of bag and would be willing to use a larger device have the laptop as an option.

So the possibilities are: A pocket-sized device that will compete with smartphones OR a larger device that will compete with laptops.

IMHO, the iPod will morph into the smart-phone competitor. It will slowly get more and more functions, probably starting with a color screen and handwriting recognition for basic note-taking. Eventually it will get some sort of cell-phone functionality but that will probably not come untill the cell phones start incorporating hard-drives and threatening the iPod on the music front, at which time I'd be willing to bet the iPod/iTunes will start offering some sort of "high-fi", like a compressed version of DVD audio.

Which leaves the laptop competitor... I think that this is where a newton-like product would work well. Something along the lines of the size of the gemstar e-book reader, though thinner, and lighter. What it would need to sell it is AE and bluetooth connectivity, a good screen, excellent handwriting recognition, and great battery life (at least double that of a laptop, if not more). Furthermore, it needs something akin to iTunes connectivity for the iPod, except for the kinds of documents people tend to carry in their briefcases, i.e. The Wallstreet Journal, some documents they need to review, an old Edgar Rice Burroughs book... etc. etc. I'm thinking like an iBookshelf application that sorts and catagorizes all your text documents whether their Word, PDF, Rich Text, an RSS subscription, sticky notes, etc. etc.

[youngjake]

You know you want it.

Newton 2 = tricorder..

sorry.
my appologies.....

[JohnGillilan]

Is GSM popular enough in North America that people in general would buy a "newton phone?" Europe/Asia get phones way before we do usually, so would this be released overseas first? Any mobile phone experts out there...?

Cingular/AT&T and T-Mobile all use GSM, which is a considerable share of the market.

[sethypoo]

Yawn.

[noel4r]

a Newton rumor? men, is it that slow? apple really needs to get in gear w/ some new "computer" products.

[D*I*S_Frontman]

All,

When considering the possible revival of the Newton, I see two hurdles that are most often cited:

a) Steve says he will never do one.

b) The market is shrinking among a glut of competitors

I say neither of these are real obstacles once the marketing geniuses @ Apple get theings rolling. The new Newton (if one should be forthcoming) would be substantially different from the Palm paradigm, enough so that Jobs would say it is not the same thing at all.

As far as the market is concerned, the very same arguments could be heard regarding mp3 players on the eve of the initial iPod release. "No one will buy the thing--too expensive" was the mantra. Yeah, right.

What we know for sure is this: if Apple creates a stylistically chic, well-designed product that substantially expands the user's personal productivity and/or enhances their lifestyle, Apple will move them by the truckload. Prices will be high, but customers will pay down to have something cool and fun.

A completely redesigned, sleek, chic Newton would sell big. People would buy them if only because they WOULDN'T look like a boxy, clumsy Palm.

I think this would be the perfect product for the "take your OS with you" technology. A nice 40GB drive with your home OS files so that your Mac at work and at home have 100% the same feel--who wouldn't want that?

FireWire, Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, yes, yes, and yes. Also, some sort of factory-interchangable module inside to swap out for various cellphone technologies and providers. Yes, the thing would probably have to be a phone as well. And have the functionality of an iPod.

Based on all that, the obvious name for this product would be as already suggested: POWERPOD. The professional incarnation of the consumer-grade iPod. And it wouldn't be cheap--probably near the price of an entry-level eMac--but if it were a quantum leap cooler, "user-friendlier," and it significantly enhanced the productivity of the user without any added headaches, it would sell. BIG. With digital cell technology it might even become a field-deployed enterprise device to compete with Blackberrys.

Oh, there's definitely money in this if they do it right.

[Doctor Q]

Let's bring back the eMate 300 too! I could upgrade mine to the new "eMate 3000".

Did anyone watch that Newton Trash movie? The poor user sure has a hard time finding "Delete" in the menu!

[waterbouy]

PDAs today have reached the maximum level of PDAdom. Time to move on to something more PRACTICAL for video/audio/word processing/spreadsheet/presentation work.

Wouldn't it be grand for any executive to load in a PowerPoint presentation to their new DHK (sorry - I've seemed to adapt that name now...!), take it with them to the boardroom, and connect it directly to the video projector, hit "Play", and conduct their presentation with considerable ease?


Don't you mean Keynote??
:p

[iGuy]

Just a quick reality check. Please don't let this stop all the fun. ;)

The only way to have an iDevice that does it all would be something like a new 7 inch Tablet Powerbook.

It would have a larger, more usable screen than a Palm and with a Superdrive you could play DVDs. It'd have all the processing power of a Powerbook and all the goodies like InfraRed (for use as a remote), Firewire, USB and audio/video out et al.

Would it replace my cell phone? No.

Would it replace my Mac? No.

Would it be expensive? Yes.

Would it be bulky? Yes, depending on your definition of bulky.

Would I buy one? Probalby.

Would anyone else buy one? Probably not.

Would Apple actually make one? Probably not.

Just my two cents. :)

~ iGuy

[kenaustus]

Instead of "Newton II" why not consider that it might just be "enhancements" to the iPod?

[AdamZ]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities. I curently have a nice g5 and I really don't need a laptop except to show presentations. I always have to borrow someones laptop just to hook up to the projectors at school. All I want to do is present a Keynote file and $1000 for an iBook is not the answer. The problem is that some computers I hook to don't have the software I need on them, nor do they have bluetooth. So a device that I can run or at least play Keynote is a must since exporting to Powerpoint defeats the purpose of using Keynote If its not a phone, then device that could be used with a Sailing Clicker type program that I could control with bluetooth to go to the next slide. I can't wait Apple!

[AdamZ]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities. I curently have a nice g5 and I really don't need a laptop except to show presentations. I always have to borrow someones laptop just to hook up to the projectors at school. All I want to do is present a Keynote file and $1000 for an iBook is not the answer. The problem is that some computers I hook to don't have the software I need on them, nor do they have bluetooth. So a device that I can run or at least play Keynote is a must since exporting to Powerpoint defeats the purpose of using Keynote If its not a phone, then device that could be used with a Sailing Clicker type program that I could control with bluetooth to go to the next slide. I can't wait Apple!
Opps, I forgot to mention an infared port to contol my television. I just want one device to use for everything I use, a mouse would even be cool.

[Stella]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities. !

What you describe is a smartphone.

Nokia Series 60 and Erccison P900 are good.

[vitaboy]

Yeah - I know. But the TERM PDA didn't really arrive until the Palm devices, by which time the Newton had then been inducted into that category by default.

I owned an original Newton. I clearly recall it being referred to as a PDA long before the first Palms came out. Just because it wasn't a widely used term at the time doesn't mean the Newton was later "inducted" into the category. Rather, Palm popularized the term that was originally associated with the Newton and made it part of the general vernacular. To say otherwise suggests that Palm invented the PDA concept, which is different from saying Palm made PDAs affordable and popular.

[vitaboy]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities.

While such an idea seems appealing, I think it's a bad idea to have such a multifunction device. There is a good reason for this, too. If you had a mobile phone, would you really go around draining its batteries to listen to music? I would think the vast majority of people would rather have a phone that can be used to make a call at any time rather than risk draining the battery for some secondary purpose. If your iPod battery runs down, not being able to listen to any more music until the next recharge is okay, but if my phone battery runs out while I'm hours from home is a big deal.

Thus, while I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, the phone + iPod concept is one of those concepts that suffers from a bad case of featuritis. And one thing Steve Jobs understands is that every feature has to be justified in terms of useful functionality instead of simply being added because it can be done.

On that note, I think it would be a bad idea for Apple to produce its own cell phone. The mobile phone market is super competitive and manufacturers literally have to sell tens of millions of phones to make a profit. That's the reality, and too risky a venture for Apple.

Still, I don't think it's wholly impossible. Apple could team up with an existing manufacturer to produce a co-branded phone a la Sony Ericsson. What about an Apple Nokia phone? All Apple would have to do is lend its industrial and interface design expertise (especially since most phone interfaces suck) and Nokia would manufacture the phone. Then Apple exposure to risk is minimal and wouldn't have to worry about the need to build, market, and sell millions of phones per month.

What should an Apple Nokia phone look like? It should be sleeker and sexier than any phone on the market. It should have Bluetooth for iSyncing and a well-designed interface. It should not play music beyond ring tones - no iPod functionality, no mini video player. It would have an 2 MP integrated camera with fantastic image quality, however, and iPhoto would be able to automatically grab the photos from the camera via Bluetooth. Basically, a better version of the Sony Ericsson K700 (http://www.sonyericsson.com/k700/index.html) phone. For Mac users, it would have the limited ability to control your Mac remotely a la the Salling Clicker - launch iTunes, select next song, go to sleep, launch iPhoto, etc.

Now this kind of phone would sell. :-)

[SiliconAddict]

Personally I think it will be a cold day in hell before Jobs brings the Newton back. It wasn't his baby and most if not all things that weren't Jobs's creation were ****canned.

With that being said I would pick up a new Newton in a hot second. My Newton is the only Apple device I still use on a daily basis. PDA's are all well and fine. I love my Pocket PC. But I crave a form factor between a tablet PC that, IMHO, is too large, and a Pocket PC, again IMHO, is too small to write comfortably.
I watch the progress of the Pocket PC and see how its matured over the years in both speed, features, stability and I want to cry wondering where the Newton would be right now. The resolution is still higher then just about anything short of those new palmtop devices like the Zaurus and the new CE.net devices. The features KILL most devices currently out. It uses the predecessor of the XScale CPU's that are the norm in current PDA's. Duel PCMCIA slots is unheard of even today. I'd like to think the Newton would look something like this:
http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/09/17/gfx/bsquare_maui_02.jpg

Just a lot sexier.

Dang you Jobs. Dang you for killing my, and still many others, babies.

[TWinbrook46636]

As I recall, a while back Apple pulled some sort of utility from OS X that let you sync and boot/run OS X off an iPod. It was assumed that it was for the iPod but maybe for a next generation iPod or iPhone device. Of course you can do this now but it's a bit limited.

[clonenode]

Matthew Rothenberg (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/11/20021119085448.shtml), where are you?

Edit: Sorry, better link (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,713606,00.asp)here.

Okay, one more (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1491639,00.asp), even better link (see page 2).

[lind0834]

If Apple and HP were able to get together to form a nice enough bond to get an iPod together.. maybe Apple will get more out of the deal than just iTunes sales.

Maybe they signed an agreement to produce an iPaq that ran on a Unix or something. Doubtful considering how heavily the iPaq is buckled in to the usual wintel platform, and that HP isn't the only company who uses a PocketPC iPaq, but shouldn't it be due for a major overhaul.. maybe we can dream.

Apple + HP = HP branded iPod.
HP + Apple = Apple branded iPaq.

[0 and A ai]

i think the ipod will evolve into a more advanced pda than it already is.

or apple can just develop a pda OS and license it. but that won't happen cause of the ipod.

[aswitcher]

i think the ipod will evolve into a more advanced pda than it already is.

SNIP.

I agree. I think they with follow the theme set already by Mac software, where M$ do Office, Apple do "iLife for the rest of your life." or in this case "iPod for the rest of your life."

I think they will evolve the iPod in this theme, not directly competing with Pocket/Palm but still supporting most features we would like like calender, to do lists etc. They will instead focus on their strengths, which is music, ease of use, non-corporate look, and interoperatability with Mac software.

Video will eventually be supported in one form or another, although not as quickly as people may wish. People love sharing verible things they has seen on TV etc, iPod could provide the digital support for that. News papers etc in adobe...

Sometime they will need to revist touch screens for data entry for soem features or perhaps allow audio insertion in calenders and to do as reminders for typing up when back at the Mac.

[Savage Henry]

Saturation, as in market saturation?

Where did you hear this? Source please.

Sushi

Sorry for the late reply, Sushi, bad day at the office meant I couldn't spend as much time at the desk as I would have liked.

I meant 'Saturation' as in the Apple product line has just about enough to fill the needs of pratically every single consumer.

As for the market, it's still got plenty o' burgeoning to go. The iPod mini has shown that you can sell them the same thing, just change the colour, and they will lap it up.

[windowsblowsass]

ThinkSecret posts some brief notes (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes11.html) on various topics.

Of most interest is word of that one company (http://www.stonemultimedia.com/) is conducting a survey about Newton technology:



The Apple Newton was first introduced in 1993 and essentially represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The Newton went through various revisions over the years but was discontinued in 1998.

Apple, however, retained the rights to all Newton related technology, and at least some has made it into Mac OS X (Inkwell).

Related Videos (Quicktime):

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Intelligent Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
Newton Trash (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)
HMM IF APPLE WAS TO RE RELEASE NEWTON WOULDNT YOU EXPECT THEM TO BE ORE SECRETIVE AND NOT JUST COME OUT AND SAY ITS NEWTON THAT MAY BE RE RELEASED?
IF I DID COME OUT ID BUY IT
edit might as well bring it up iphone.org is a complete apple mirror except for the store which links to the current apple store you think apples keeping it for something

[lajocaab]

The technology is available to provide consumers with a product like "iSlate". Of course only Apple could really do it right, although several other companies are attempting to create some variation of this device. Unfortunately many are too focused on video playback only, & not creating a true multi-function device that could be used at home, at the office, or on the road. This product would integrate well into the "Digital Lifestyle" philosophy & compliment existing Apple products.

It would provide a screen large enough to actually watch video & view photos, while still being small enough to be portable. It needs to be smaller than a notebook computer, but larger than a PDA. Granted, you can not put a device the size of a DVD case in your pocket, but something doesn't have to fit in a pocket to be portable. This device could be used in so many different situations that it would have broad appeal in the market. I only pray that Apple is working on such a device & will release it in 2004. They have an opportunity to impact the industry with the iSlate & iVideo media Store as much as the iPod & iTMS will.

iSlate

New Apple mini-tablet –> PMA (portable media appliance)

Designed not to be a creative device like a desktop or laptop, but rather a sophisticated display device that communicates seamlessly with other devices via Rendezvous & 802.11, BT, GPRS, FireWire, etc.


Device Size:
8” x 5.0” x .65” (±15oz)
± 1/2 size of a 17” PowerBook
± 2x size of a Palm T3 or an iPod
± size of a DVD movie case
small enough to hold with one hand by the bezel (.5” bezel on the sides)

Screen:
±8” LCD (16:9 ratio) -> 800 x 480 pixels minimum (1024 x 600 ideally!)
± 1/2 size of 17” PowerBook screen
± 2x size of a Palm T3 screen
able to display “640 x 480 material” & DVD (720x480) quality video natively

Battery:
6-9 hr. Li-Ion battery (or some new battery technology)

Storage:
1.8” 20GB or 40GB Toshiba hard drive (additional capacity can come from external devices)
128MB or 256MB RAM - fixed
CF slot (w/ adapter for SD, xD, Smart Media, Memory stick)

Processor & OS ??:
Motorola 800 MHz G4 mobile w/ Mac OS X lite or
Intel 400 MHz XScale PXA263 w/ Palm OS 6 or Mac OS Mobile?

Connectivity:
802.11 –> Desktop or Laptop, Stereo, Internet via Wi-Fi hotspots
Bluetooth –> Keyboard, Mouse, PDA, Wireless Headphones, Internet via GSM Phone
FireWire –> iPod, Computer, external Hard Drive, DVD/CD writer, Video Camera, iSight
USB 2.0 –> Printer, PDA, Digital Still Camera
mini-DVI w/adapter for:
-> ADC & VGA for larger monitor
-> DVI for video projector or HDTV
-> S-Video for video projector or TV
-> Composite for video projector or TV
Stereo mini out
Stereo mini in
Rendezvous for seamless connectivity to other devices

Input:
Inkwell via touch screen &/or stylus
Folding Keyboard & mouse via Bluetooth or USB
Microphone
Remote control via Bluetooth

Applications:
inkwell, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie, Safari, QuickTime, iSync, Rendezvous
Preview or Acrobat Reader, Mail, iCal, Address Book, Sherlock, iChat AV
Keynote, FileMaker, Quicken,

A/V Formats:
Pixlet, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, MPEG-1, AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF, Audible, JPEG, TIFF, GIF

Accessories:
Charger, External Battery, Stand, clip for iSight, Portable folding BT keyboard, BT mouse
Headphone w/Microphone boom, quality stereo headphones

Price ??:
$699 to $899

Create a device that is bigger that the largest PDA or Archos/Lyra type device, yet smaller than the average notebook or tablet computer. Imagine if you will, holding a device (about the size of a DVD case) away from you anywhere from 12" to 18". Obviously a 4" screen would be inadequate, but a 7" to 9" diagonal widescreen would be more than acceptable. It could still be small enough to fit in a stack of books, a briefcase, a large purse, of any number of other carrying cases. It would be something that could be viewed in an office, at home, in a coffee shop, on an airplane or train, or even in the backseat of a car.

The idea is not to see how much visual information one can cram into a small space (3" to 4" screens) or replace existing devices like the Laptop, TV or Video Projector. The idea is to create a device that is a reasonable compromise between portability & "acceptable or pleasurable" viewing for multiple applications & that also complements existing devices.

Although a 4 lb, 12" notebook computer displays video beautifully (I use one everyday), it is too big for the situations I have described. Beyond the innumerable business applications it could fulfill, it could display video & photos on a screen that is much bigger than an Archos/Lyra type device or PDA, & yet smaller than a notebook computer. It doesn’t need to carry everything all the time, so it doesn’t require a massive hard drive. The internal HD needs only to be large enough for the OS, applications & enough storage to carry material while you away from any connectivity to other devices or the internet.

From a strictly “video perspective”, a large part of its success would hinge upon Apple's ability to distribute video clips through an online store much like iTMS. This store could provide educational content, business content, news content, & entertainment content beyond just movies. To be truly successful, it must integrate into Apple's "Digital Lifestyle" strategy, & be truly portable (ubiquitous wireless connectivity & good battery life).

[Docrjm]

The technology is available to provide consumers with a product like "iSlate". Blah Blah
New Apple mini-tablet –> PMA (portable media appliance)

Designed not to be a creative device like a desktop or laptop, but rather a sophisticated display device that communicates seamlessly with other devices via Rendezvous & 802.11, BT, GPRS, FireWire, etc.


Device Size:
8” x 5.0” x .65” (±15oz)
± 1/2 size of a 17” PowerBook
.
Do you just cut and paste the same info into every reply? How about a little original thought?

[lazyrighteye]

dot_mac, that's pretty funny. I was thinking I had read this post before.
Seems like lajocaab has this iSlate all worked out... cool.

Well despite what some suggest, there is a market for anything Apple... it's called Apple fanatics. If it's new, has an Apple logo on it - they will FLY off the shelves. Mark my words.

I saw some of Steve's underwear on ebay... happy bidding.

:)

[iPost]

What a coincidence...

Last weekend I was cleaning out a closet and came across my old Newton eMate 300. I plugged it in and it still worked! That's about all the excitement I got out of the experience though. While the handwriting recognition is top-notch, I wondered why anyone would want to write using a stylus when there is a keyboard right there on the eMate 300. The user interface is also very dated and hasn't aged well. Remember, this is a pre-Internet dinosaur product. I played around for about 5 minutes, unplugged it, put it back in the closet, and then fired up my iBook to send some email. The iBook offers a much better experience in every way. No need to bring back that Newton UI. Just put OS X on an ultra-portable. I have no desire to use a Newton now... Steve Jobs was right in canning it.

[boobers]

Its the most hated, yet most need device.
For my purpose, I need web access anywhere.
wifi isn't good enough until 802.16 comes into the fold..If it's not city wide then its unreliable..
I'll take a 5" screen 16x9 VGA
Bluetooth, GPRS/EDGE, Wifi, usuable keyboard

Here are some devices that come close for me..

http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/sharp_zaurus_C860.htm
nice keyboard, uses linux OS

http://www.o2xda.de/
this one is meant to be a phone but is closer to a PDA, has built in GSM/GPRS connectivity, uses PPC 2003 phone edition

http://www.pdabuyersguide.com/feature/sony_UX50.htm
mentioned earlier in this thread , nice device but there are no GPRS modems available for memory stick, uses palm 5 OS

http://www.psionteklogix.com/public.aspx?s=com&p=Products&pCat=128&pID=895
Uses Symbion OS, who's future is uncertain

None of these devices have a HD, I'm not sure apple needs to make a device with a huge HD in it..maybe a mini drive and connectivity to ipods for storage.

Internet on the go is what will fuel the next gen PDA.

[Awimoway]

I agree. I think they with follow the theme set already by Mac software, where M$ do Office, Apple do "iLife for the rest of your life." or in this case "iPod for the rest of your life."

I think they will evolve the iPod in this theme, not directly competing with Pocket/Palm but still supporting most features we would like like calender, to do lists etc. They will instead focus on their strengths, which is music, ease of use, non-corporate look, and interoperatability with Mac software.

Video will eventually be supported in one form or another, although not as quickly as people may wish. People love sharing verible things they has seen on TV etc, iPod could provide the digital support for that. News papers etc in adobe...

Sometime they will need to revist touch screens for data entry for soem features or perhaps allow audio insertion in calenders and to do as reminders for typing up when back at the Mac.

I completely disagree. Apple has been very clear that the key to success with the iPod is advertising--just kidding--is its simplicity. Since its introduction, the iPod has had NO significant additions made to its functionalty. Changes, yes. Significant ones, no. Unlike most tech companies, Apple doesn't believe in adding features just because they can. They don't feel that the way to make it right is to put everything and the kitchen sink into it. Sometimes I think Apple overdoes it with the whole simplicity thing, insulting the intelligence of the general public (e.g. the one-button mouse) in the name of simplicity, but those are the facts nonetheless.

Note that I am not saying that Apple won't introduce a PDA or a a video DLD at some point in the near future. And for marketing purposes they may even brand it an iPod (the "iPod:Video," or "eyePod" or "iPad" or something similar). But it will be a fundamentally unique device, clearly distinct from the audio iPod. It won't be an evolutionary development to the iPod itself.

[aswitcher]

I completely disagree. SNIP

I agree in some respects, as I don't think the iPod will necessarily disappear anytime soon but I do believe that Apple's success with Hollywood and the iTunes store/iPod AAC format, bodes well for shifting to do the same for video, when video purchased online finally come of age.

I think that Apple has already leaked the fact that they are planning to do "iPod at home" to make the whole iDisk thing work with the iPod, and from this I believe that they will venture into new territory to build on the success of the pod. Maybe they are holding back to make sure it works with both Mac and PC before releasing to capaitalise on market share etc...

[CraigandhiseMac]

Maybe Apple will introduce an iPod AV or something along those lines, but I Can't see a PDA on the horizon's.

[aswitcher]

Maybe Apple will introduce an iPod AV or something along those lines, but I Can't see a PDA on the horizon's.

If Apple go it alone with a PDA it will probably be something that leads the market with design/features. It won't be Apple's palm/pocket pc copy, it will do soemthing unique and hopefully incorporate the best of the market. Eg an iPod harddisk, in a sexy and simple form factor, supporting iDisk. I think some of the larger Sony pdas have some nice features but they are hardly pocket sized.

Maybe the HP deal with the iPod will see a recepricol deal with HP for a Mac ipaq! That way Apple save on R&D and come to market with at least a market leader. Is this doable? I dont know. Would it be Pocket PC? I dont know. There have been a few Linux PDAs but they aren't doign well, I think they may have actually gone... mmmm
A cutdown OSX for a ipaq with a harddisk... mmm

I use a Tungsten T2 now and would be looking for something else in a few years. It would be nice if Apple have something

[vpalvarez]

Well, actually - it does. Especially now thanks to miniature high-volume hard drives such as those residing in the iPod. That's why Steve Jobs probably wants to break the mould regarding PDAs completely. Who needs a PDA when you can have a portable mass storage device that does ALL of the above - AND tons more?

PDAs today have reached the maximum level of PDAdom. Time to move on to something more PRACTICAL for video/audio/word processing/spreadsheet/presentation work.

Wouldn't it be grand for any executive to load in a PowerPoint presentation to their new DHK (sorry - I've seemed to adapt that name now...!), take it with them to the boardroom, and connect it directly to the video projector, hit "Play", and conduct their presentation with considerable ease?

Or even someone who needs to precis a document on the road - say, a speechwriter - and then load it directly into the autocue at the other end?

Or if on a plane - bored out of existence - wouldn't it be nice to watch one of your pre-loaded movies, or to carry a portable Bus-powered DVD drive with you for the long-hauls? The screen would be the PERFECT size...

They could even incorporate a rough version of iMovie, iTunes or even GarageBand (for musicians on the fly). It'd be a lot smaller than a laptop, but convenient enough to take anywhere, and powerful enough to get you out of trouble. It'd be the ideal DJ accompaniment on gigs, or a sequencer for musos. Full plug-and-play capability.

So - I reckon FireWire WOULD be an essential tool. After all - Apple DID co-develop it, and it WOULD be a waste not to include it. Fast data transfers, connectivity to other units and peripherals, and not a big space-taker (just look at the iPod - THAT'S got one...).

End of story.

;)


Seems to me that what this sounds like is a high powered Tablet PC except a mac. The screen would mean that it would probabl be a slate style, but what size? ... How about the size of a paperback book. This sounds great. I hope that your right becasue it would seem that the New Newton would be Apple's foray into the Tablet PC area, still a relatively new market

[fazel]

Anyone think that the introduction of the ipodmini is part of a larger strategy that will eventually see the ipod morph into a larger device with the features that we've been discussing? If not, the introduction of a device larger than the ipod would also be a possibility.

[Nermal]

er... I'm pretty sure the original Newton was a PDA. Scully coined the term with respect to the original newton.

arn

OK, let me rephrase that. The box of the original MessagePad calls it a "communications assistant". Happy now? :)

[SiliconAddict]

OK, let me rephrase that. The box of the original MessagePad calls it a "communications assistant". Happy now? :)

The generally accepted term for what the Newton is, is a handheld computer. While the Newton does fall into the realm of Personal Digital Assistants (PDA) in terms of what they do PDAs usually fall into a much smaller form factor one that can usually be pocketed. (al la Pocket PC or Palm.) As much as I love my Newton short of some seriously oversized pants there is no way I’m going to be pocketing it.

[applefans]

If Apple was to come up with a new device I would want a phone, ipod, and presentation, quicktime abilities. I curently have a nice g5 and I really don't need a laptop except to show presentations. I always have to borrow someones laptop just to hook up to the projectors at school. All I want to do is present a Keynote file and $1000 for an iBook is not the answer. The problem is that some computers I hook to don't have the software I need on them, nor do they have bluetooth. So a device that I can run or at least play Keynote is a must since exporting to Powerpoint defeats the purpose of using Keynote If its not a phone, then device that could be used with a Sailing Clicker type program that I could control with bluetooth to go to the next slide. I can't wait Apple!

With internet connection via modem or WiFi, add a cute software and a bluetooth earphone, I would like to convert my powermac / powerbook / Newton II / ipod / to a phone. Who need the cell phone again?

[JeffTL]

If you go much beyond the Palm line, you find yourself competing against the iBook, which suddenly looks like EVEN BETTER value against (for example) an $800 PDA. When I was in the laptop market the 12.1" iBook looked better value-wise than the cheapo HP laptops that go for about $800; now just imagine a PDA like that. Give me calendar, give me address book, give me Wi-Fi for Web and AIM, a memo pad, plenty of memory, and preferably a keyboard and I am happily efficient...so I use a Tungsten C.

[elgruga]

Newton Shnewton.

I had one...., OK, I had several. The last model, the 2000? or something was great, but it didnt do anything really well enough to make it fly.

It wasnt enough of a computer.
It wasnt enough of a recording device.
It wasnt easy to read books on it, although I did.
It wasnt anything of a music player.
It wasnt a phone.

It was a concept that sparked off a bunch of other stuff, and if there were awards for helping others to make money while losing it yourself then many of us, including Apple would receive them.

The pioneers get the arrows - the settlers get the land.

I sold my Newtons and kept buying them back as the price dropped and dropped (used).

I tried to be geeky enough to use it after it was obviously a dead concept, mainly cause they were so cheap on eBay.
I finally gave up when I realised it had no power to attract women, or to make me feel good, on a consistent basis.

The iPod makes me feel VERY good. My choice of music wherever I am without disturbing anyone.
I have yet to seriously research the 'attract women' thing - probably it doesnt.

And you think the Newt is gonna make a comeback? Yeah, right.

Bring on the Yo-Yo, the Rubiks cube. the Hula Hoop, the Sinclair scooter thing, the Fiat 500 - well, you get the idea.

Video Newton PDA thing? NO.

Who wants to watch movies on a tiny screen? Like, why?
Not everything will go small.

Some things just have to be the size they are, and thats that.
Things like: Pints of beer, widescreen TV's, women, shoes, guitars, etc.

Not everything needs to be reduced to tiny.

[boobers]

Many would argue Sharp deseveres credit for the PDA as their organizers have been around since the 80's in one form or another..usually with keyboards.

[SiliconAddict]

Newton Shnewton.

It wasnt enough of a computer.
It wasnt enough of a recording device.
It wasnt easy to read books on it, although I did.
It wasnt anything of a music player.
It wasnt a phone.


And you will notice that all of these things are now possible. The Newton, just like previous incarnations of the tablet pc, were ahead of their time trying to accomplish things that tech at the time could not produce. FYI - The Newton CAN play MP3s :) Google search it sometime.

As for having it be a phone. I couldn’t care less about the overhype of the smartphone. Try entering a paragraph of text on a smartphone sometime. I bet you would give up in 2 sentences. Smartphones are great for one and only one thing. Data retrieval. They suck big time for data entry something which a PDA is pretty good for but for which the Newton’s form factor excels at.

[areyouwishing]

If Apple was to get back into this market, they certainly should NOT do a PDA. They need something between a PDA and Tablet PC.

It needs to have...

a) Removable MicroDrive 4GB
b) Wireless 802.11b (for internet and light networking)
c) Firewire/USB for downloading of Music, Games, Movies
d) At least the same size screen as the old newton (color)
e) S-Video/RCA Video Out for presentations

If they can get all this in a 400-500 package they could KILL. As time goes on, Microdrives can be upgraded to allow for more storage, so its ALWAYS expandable. Games, Music, and Movies could lure in the kid market, the PDA/Wireless Internet functions could lure in the business market (even making a Keynote "player" for the device would be great). This could fill SOOO many gaps, and could satisfy so many people. People could download movies onto their device, or music, share everything via rendezvous. The USB connection could make for a connection to a printer or Keyboard for simple word processing for students... if this thing is 5 inches it would be great to carry in a backpack.

[geran]

If Apple was to get back into the PDA market, they should:

1) Opensource NewtonOS like they have done with Darwin.
2) Opensource the hardware.

Why? Right know nothing seems to hapening with the Newton platform, that makes nobody happy, and soon are the newton tehnology to far behind to be useful.

[shabbasuraj]

regardless.... whatever Apple decides on this pseudo PDA device, I am pleased with the fact that Apple has simply begun to think about possible hardware expansion strategies...]

maybe a 2 button mouse is next...

perhaps not...

[squatch]

Is GSM popular enough in North America that people in general would buy a "newton phone?" Europe/Asia get phones way before we do usually, so would this be released overseas first? Any mobile phone experts out there...?

Yes, I used to work in the cell phone market. I would almost bet my Mac that if Apple released a hybrid Smartphone of some sort, it would include GSM technology. Why? Because now the largest cell phone carrier in the US is GSM (Cingular/AT&T), and as you said all of Europe and parts of Asia run on GSM technology.

If I were Apple and I wanted to make this a GLOBAL product able to sell in multiple countries, I would release a GSM compliant device for the cell phone functionality side. If the market demanded CDMA compatibility (technology that Verizon, Sprint PCS, US Cellular run on), then possibly release a dual GSM/CDMA or CDMA compatible device alongside the GSM one.

[squatch]

I know many of you remember the rumor not too long back about IBM revamping the current G3 processor to make it low powered and Altivec compliant (I believe the name of the chip was 750FX?). My bet is that if Apple releases this mobile device using a scaled down version of OS X, they will use this chip because if any of the iApps appear on it, or even Quicktime for sure, they will need the advanced instructions of the Velocity Engine to run smoothly.

Otherwise, it's likely to be a revamped NewtonOS with iApp-compatible applications. Any ideas?

[kaiser]

If Apple does do a new Newton, I think it should have the following specs:

About the size of an iPaq
4GB Hard Disk (same as iPod Mini)
Colour screen with resolution of 640x480
Special version of Mac OS X for PDAs
400Mhz ARM or IBM G3 if they can get the power down enough.
ATI IMAGEON™ 2300 graphics (3D graphics card)

Optional Wifi/Bluetooth of course

I'm dreaming of this Newton Revival and these would be good specs, but I'd go a bit bigger on the HD, say 15 GB.

But then Apple should take things a bit further, a combination iPod, iPhone, PDA with the following goodies:

A real keyboard .. maybe something like the Nokia 9200i (There is nothing more rediculous than a bunch of business execs in a meeting trying to make appointments using Palm. It looks real funny.)

A mini iSight as well. Then Apple could link the thing to .Mac along the lines of the always-on-always-connected Blackberry concept. Through iChat AV you could get real video conferencing or VOIP right from your car or airport or hotel. Appointments taken by a secretary and entered into iCal would be immediately updated on .Mac then to the "iPDA" or vice versa. Email too.

Just dreaming ...

[aswitcher]

Yes, I used to work in the cell phone market. I would almost bet my Mac that if Apple released a hybrid Smartphone of some sort, it would include GSM technology. Why? Because now the largest cell phone carrier in the US is GSM (Cingular/AT&T), and as you said all of Europe and parts of Asia run on GSM technology.

SNIP


Well as long as its at least TriBand GSM

[chriscorcoran]

BRING BACK THE NEWTON! I have a Palm Zire 71 and a Dell Axim X5 while I love them both I would definatly pay 300 bucks for a new newton. I can see it now...an Intel Arm CPU (maybe a custom IBM or TI chip) upwards of 500Mhz, tons of storage definalty more then 128 idealy 256 of bulit in storage(maybe a microdrive), audio out, airport, bluetooth, one of apples amazing displays and awsome interface. It would not only kick the crap out of my Palm and Dell it would look cooler too! So BRING BACK THE NEWTON!

PS
If anyone can bring it to us it would be Jobs. Altough he has spoken out againts a PDA type device it may be a smartphone. So hurry up and BRING BACK THE NEWTON! Who cares if its a smart phone or pda! We need something better!

[jojoanderson]

alright guys... I aggree with SJ to scrap the newton at the time. and I do agree that the PDA market is too competitive and the apple customer base wouldnt be enough to support such a project.
however... apple has always been forward thinking and that's exactly what we need here. what we need is the next generation portable computing device. imagine a palm size device that is a GSM phone, a GPS and a small personal computer. it has bluetooth technology and comes with a wireless earpiece that will knock your senses silly... it can store massive amounts of data, boot your mac or host your user directory, and of course store and play music and video. hmmm... video, how about video conferencing via iChatAV.
now hold on to your seats.... what if the device would stand up on the table, connect to your 802.11 WIFI or if you are out of range through your wireless service provider and it will project a keyboard on the tabletop you set it down on [http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_548253.html?menu=news.technology].
bundle this with a modified version of OSX [including a terminal app] and a brand new apple works or slimed down version of Office and tell me you wouldn't pay $ 499.00 for such a device. I bet you a lot of people could could replace their laptop computers with it and where do you get a laptop for that kind of money.

***this message was printed using recycled electrons***

[bluesoutback]

Personally I don´t think the PDA idea has much of a future anymore. The extended mobile phone or extended ipod might still generate some interest.
-------------------------------------------------
I was anxious for the last "Personal Assistant" - the last incarnation of the Newton after having use of one for a few days.
But even at $1000 (sans keyboard, given the brilliant "price-drop" strategy they had which merely made the keyboard a $100+ add-on & still came to about $1200 for the final product) - it was too expensive at a bad time in the desktop market for Apple.

Handwriting recognition was passable in the last incarnation just months or weeks before they killed it. But the processor was slow. it didn't have adequate removable storage media if i recall correctly - the audio recording feature was neat but underpowered.

They'd just come out with a new desktop line - I needed a desktop upgrade, but I would have had to pay almost as much for a "Newton." It was an easy choice.

There were two potential markets - one requiring a larger sketching "slate," the other being the shirt pocket crowd.

The Newton was too big to fit in a pocket for convenience, though as I recall it was about the time that guys were starting to carry "purse" accessories.
It needed to be a "slate." - which the Intel crowd hasn't done succesfully to date, but that further reduced its convenience for a shirt pocket.

But I ain't gonna drop more than the price of a $400 iPod for a device of questionable value to me unless it really captures my imagination wth a new use.

They need a new angle if they want to revitalize a faltering market - if it played DVDs like some of the 7" screened players out there now, acted as a photo wallet as well & had a monster quality display & processor to match.
There is still a niche between the mini-laptop & a PDA, but it better be thin & ruggedized.

I don't care about phones - but give me a drawing slate that won't break if I drop it & does some of the above - with room & speed to spare. They might have a sale if it remains under $600 & doesn't have a $100 battery like the iPod.

[TubaMuffins]

all i want i a phone that can easily sync with my address book and ical, also to be able to edit these things on my phone. i dont care about quicktime or processor speeds. i think a smart phone is much more probable than a complete entertainmentr hub in your hand.

[mangis]

Way back in 1992 when I got my powerbook 160, most of my friends thought I was crazy. "Why would you want something so small?", they asked. Living in a studio apartment, and not owning a car, i knew exactly what I wanted. Then, I predicted the future, and told them that someday, laptops would be more popular than desktops. It has taken what, 13 years for those words to come true?

Years later, when I got my Lombard powerbook, I knew what a good thing they were. 5 years later, that machine still works, but I have to say that these machines are not truly portable. In America, where everyone seems to have a car, those and even the current powerbooks seem portable, but this is really an illusion. Try walking around a city all day with one in your briefcase or even backpack. Your arm will fall off. I don't care what people say, they are heavy. Even bulky.

We need a smaller way to carry around apple operating systems. There is no doubt about this. We need something much smaller, and much thinner. Perhaps not a PDA, but a little "Powerbook-Mini", something to rival those sony vaios. As a Mac user, while I love the stuff, I still have "hardware envy" when I see tiny vaios at airports. My clunky 12 inch screen and thick box are heavy. I travel a lot, and I still don't have a car. And the screens? How long is it gona take apple to put a 64 bit screen in our 12 inch laptops? PC people have had better screens for years. 32 bit seems like something from the 20th century. We are behind in screen brightness, for sure. If any of you zealots think otherwise, then you are just too biased. Don't bark that the high end powerbooks have it, we all know that.

A smaller computer is what we need. Stick it in a pda, and I'd buy it in a second.

[boobers]

Do you mean something like this?
You aren't the only one....
Just add a bluetooth mouse and bob's your uncle.

[Spades]

Please, no smartphones. I'll never use all the features of my cell phone. I rarely use the phone itself. Why would I want a phone with a whole PDA attached? No thanks.

What I do want is a palmtop computer. It should be effectively a PC, just smaller, more portable, and it should last at least a day on batteries. A computer that I can clip to my belt would be extremely useful. I'd be willing to pay the price of an iBook for that. My feature wishlist is pretty small, I think. Audio out, firewire, usb, bluetooth/wi-fi, mini-DVI, and an external storage slot of some kind. Make it so it can function as a USB storage device. Put a hard drive in it. Even just a few gigs would do. Keyboard and touch-screen. I like clamshell, but that's not really neccessary. Make sure the OS is *nix-based, and I'll be happy.

[bensisko]

First, just to make a correction, the Active Newton user base is somewhere around 10,000 (not 200 as previously mentioned).

Second, the Newton (2x00 models) CAN be a phone (and an mp3 player, and a WiFi enabled device, and a video player and.... ect. Thanks to the large and devoted Newton community).

Third, the PDA market is NOT dying out (and has been picking up steam in the closing months of 03 and opening of 04, and set to pick up once the new Palm and Pocket PC OS comes out). Over saturated? Maybe. Those who think Smartphones are going to kill PDAs need to do a reality check. A dip in sales does not mean the end of the market, it means that companies need to do more to say what's different between their old device and their new device. Just because YOU don't want to carry around two devices doesn't mean that there are others who WANT two devices (and vice verca). Yes Smartphones are blurring the line between phones and PDAs, but with the Palm and Pocket PC devices out there, at what point do you call it a PDA and at what point is it a phone? I'm sure it won't be long before you will be able to buy a phone "card" for your PDA.

Fourth, it wouldn't be that hard for Apple to re-enter the market. Apple turned the mp3 Player market 180 degrees when it introduced the iPod. That was a makret that was "dying".

Fifth, despite the rumors, I just don't see Apple releasing a PDA (weither it be in the form of a Pocket PC type device with a new OS, a Tablet Mac running OS X, or even some kind of smart phone). The only new 'device' I can see them releasing is some kind of portable Video player (which still seems like a stretch).

Just to wrap up: If you want a phone, buy a phone. If you want an Apple PDA, buy a Newton (A great device that has a wonderful and enthusiastic community behind it), if you want a PDA with a color screen that does multimedia, buy a Pocket PC or a Sony (and YES you CAN sync both of those with a Mac). There are options out there and if you want a device, you can probably find one that fits 80-90% of what you want. If you don't want a device, please don't try and make it sound like your personal tastes are what the entire population wants (i.e. I don't want to carry two devices which means nobody else does eather)(and yes, I know Steve does it, and it doesn't sound any better coming from him).

[Photorun]

...if there were awards for helping others to make money while losing it ... Apple would receive them.

Apple would be the lifetime, if not worldwide or universe-wide hands down all time winner of this award.

[fixyourthinking]

Many would argue Sharp deseveres credit for the PDA as their organizers have been around since the 80's in one form or another..usually with keyboards.

The Newton was actually a Sharp model anyway and the Sharp Zaurus of the time ran the Newt OS.

Sharp has had the most awesome form factor PDA of recent memory in the 5500 with the slide out keyboard + it ran Linux making it capable of booting basillisk in emulation - I have seen a few people running Photoshop 3.0 on their Zaurus.

[boobers]

the 860 makes my mouth water..
http://www.ezaurus.com/
and then i realize they don't sell this thing in North America and the manual would be some language i couldn't understand.
Here is a review..
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Sharp_SL-C760_Review

[ingenious]

Bring it...I am over Palm


Best PDA interface?!?! Ya RIGHT! As much as i hate MS, the PPC is starting to look better than Palm. I mean, I don't know. But Palm Source's nonmac os 6 was the last straw! That and reseting and HotSync freezing my PB every single time!

[aswitcher]

SNIP

A smaller computer is what we need. Stick it in a pda, and I'd buy it in a second.

Yep, for me PDA form factor, like the Tungsten I have is a good size for jackets and short pockets, which means it gets taken. iPod sized or indeed mini iPod sized would be excellent.

[TubaMuffins]

are there any PDAs out there that sync perfectly with OSX? By perfectly i mean with the address book, ical, and maybe even mail.

[cubist]

If Apple couldn't support two operating systems in 1997, they can't support two today either. Their resources are, if anything, even less than what they had then. NewtonOS won't come back.

Siemens made a really neat phone with a Newton integrated in it. I've only seen photos of it. A much neater piece of gear than the bloated eMate (BTW, was that the first Apple product with an initial small letter?).

The iPod is a collection of third-party components. There's nothing particularly Mac-specific there, nor is there any capability to add significant new features. The iPod, as it is, is a dead-end design. I think Apple will simply license it and let it go.

Now, the shrunken Powerbook is something I'd really like. Sony and IBM make tiny laptops that sell like mad in Japan. I don't know why they don't sell them in the US. Imagine a 6" or 8" diagonal Powerbook with most of the features of the 12"! I think they'd sell like hotcakes, even at $1000 or so with no optical drive.

[doogle]

I trawled thru most of the thread - apologies if it has been mentioned already.
If Apple do make phone based PDA thing it would be great if they included Voice Over Internet Protocol and sidestepped any phone networks. Apple could offer the service itself, incorporate all sorts of cool functions (isync, tunes, disk etc) and make it truly international (take anywhere, work anywhere).

[bensisko]

are there any PDAs out there that sync perfectly with OSX? By perfectly i mean with the address book, ical, and maybe even mail.

By Default? I don't think so (unless you count the iPod, which DOES sync with address book and iCal). Palm might.

However, with The Missing Sync, even a Pocket PC can sync 'perfectly' with address book iCal and mail (BTW- The Missing Sync author HAS said that he would be developing The Missing Sync for Palm OS 6 based handhelds).

[bensisko]

Siemens made a really neat phone with a Newton integrated in it. Actually, the phone I was talking about allowed the Newton to be used as a GSM phone: http://newton.guhl.net/newton/fifo/.

The iPod, as it is, is a dead-end design. I think Apple will simply license it and let it go.


Hehe, you're funny! I think you need to read a bit more about the iPod before you make such comments.

[funkywhat2]

If Apple couldn't support two operating systems in 1997, they can't support two today either. Their resources are, if anything, even less than what they had then.

Apple has supported two operating systems before - OS9 and OSX.

And wasn't Apple in a downward spiral in 1997, whit people foretelling Apple's demise all the time? Only Rob Enderle does that now.

[e2interactive]

The other day I was at my friends house and he showed me his new PDA/Phone. It took pictures, he could surf the net, call with it and he used it for writing notes at school. I thought man I want one, but I want an Apple version, that:

Can talk to my Apple via Bluetooth or over my Airport network.
Hold somewhere between 15 and even up to 40 or 60gig.
Is an iPod/PDA that you can attach a phone, camera, audio recorder, maybe even take video.


Basically an iPod supersized with a killer PDA kick. I could use at work, for meetings, take with me on vacations, school, or just when it's incovienent to take my PowerBook with me.

I can store my photos on it, my music, my videos, notes, calendar, address book, and games. Just a kick the trash out of any other PDA that is out there today. That would be so much better than my friends Windows operating system PDA.

I say bring on the Newton II.

[Analog Kid]

Ok, I just managed to read through the thread and now I think I understand why Apple won't be going into the PDA market any time soon-- no sweet spot.

Read through the comments in this thread and they're all over the map. There's various takes on "all the power of a laptop, but with a battery that lasts all day and fits on my belt for $500 or less", and "simpler is better, just give me a few more features in my iPod", and "must have a phone" and "must not have a phone", and "must be OS X in a smaller package", and "must be a custom OS for portable devices"...

No, I don't see Apple getting into the PDA market at this point-- even their core market (us) is too divided. Tablets maybe, but given the utter failure of Windows in that market even after the huge marketing push it probably isn't likely. Phone standards around the world are too diverse for a small manufacturer like Apple to support, so a smart phone is unlikely.

The closest thing I can see is expanding the "home on your iPod" idea a bit so you can carry and perform small manipulations on, you data. iPod is probably good enough for that already though.

All of this does beg the question-- what else could the survey be for? I guess it's reasonable to think that even if the survey was for Apple the results may just confirm that this isn't a market to go into.

Anyway, off to Ebay-- I think I've been convinced to pick up a second hand Newton.

[sinanakay]

Well, i have to say i couldn't read all of the thread but jumping in to see if you guys think (as) different about this matter as i do !

I think the whole issue comes down to the operating system and the stylus (pen interface, if you like). Not the form factor PDA / Cell phone / iPod / emate you name it ! Now that we have the best operating system of all times there should be a subset of X on all of these devices. The only thing material is missing from the whole picture is PEN ! I see a lot of opportunities to replcae that mouse with a pen (and dreaming of it since the first time I put my hands on a Lisa back in 84) If you feel like reading here is a link

http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/33584

I tried to convince (you know who ;-) that it's time that Apple enters the arena.

What do you think ?
I want to replace my Palm/ipod with X driven small tablet in my pocket (no, i don't need a Word/xcel capability or a keyboard) but synching the data/scribbles collected to the base (be it a desktop or PB or whatever) I want to be able to detach the screen of an iMac from its base go to a meeting, comeback with annotations to the documents I took with me (be it picture, blueprints-pdfs, sketches)..

Well, I don't want to repeat myself, if you intend to read that post.
Just tell me what you think ?
Regards

[aswitcher]

SNIP

I tried to convince (you know who ;-) that it's time that Apple enters the arena.

What do you think ?
I want to replace my Palm/ipod with X driven small tablet in my pocket (no, i don't need a Word/xcel capability or a keyboard) but synching the data/scribbles collected to the base (be it a desktop or PB or whatever) I want to be able to detach the screen of an iMac from its base go to a meeting, comeback with annotations to the documents I took with me (be it picture, blueprints-pdfs, sketches)..

Well, I don't want to repeat myself, if you intend to read that post.
Just tell me what you think ?
Regards

I for one use my Palm to carry around word and excel docs for reference, so I would want that.

Looking at the new Office, its seems far more meeting and note orientated, which raises the ugly head of tablet powerbooks :)

A screen with its own battery that used Wifi to access the power of the base of the PB for anythign more than limited on board memory work might allow for that. Not sure the tech or market is their for this yet.

[rdowns]

what would you recommend? Accessories? Software? What are they worth?

If I got one, I would want the best model available and to work with Panther.

[Cheezy13]

Roughly the same size as the old Newton, it could have the added benefits of Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and infra-red capability - all now industry standards.

Hey kiwi… Looks like you're talking about the Newton that we all know and which already supports Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and infra-red !

;)

[jero]

if the newton makes its way on the market again, i might have to get one. even though i dont think id really need one. :D

[aswitcher]

if the newton makes its way on the market again, i might have to get one. even though i dont think id really need one. :D

Many would, because you can never underestimate the Geekfactor :p

[jedi180]

Apple needs to concentrate on what they USED to concentrate on: desktops and laptops. Palm OS is good enough and syncable enough for anyone. Who needs Mac OS Mobile? Although I think that a new Apple PDA would be nice, I think it would not be a moneymaker for Apple. I agree with those that say that Apple should just improve on the iPod. Some ideas:

-higher res color screen (with horizontal or vertical viewing also)
-Play any MOV, MPEG, etc. movie files without having to reencode them
-huge hard drive (40+ gigs, like the top iPod)
-Read .txt or ebook files with ease

Just an entertainment thing, not an organizer...

But then they should start updating the desktops and laptops faster...

[aswitcher]

Apple needs to concentrate on what they USED to concentrate on: desktops and laptops. Palm OS is good enough and syncable enough for anyone. Who needs Mac OS Mobile? Although I think that a new Apple PDA would be nice, I think it would not be a moneymaker for Apple. I agree with those that say that Apple should just improve on the iPod. Some ideas:

-higher res color screen (with horizontal or vertical viewing also)
-Play any MOV, MPEG, etc. movie files without having to reencode them
-huge hard drive (40+ gigs, like the top iPod)
-Read .txt or ebook files with ease

Just an entertainment thing, not an organizer...

But then they should start updating the desktops and laptops faster...

Yep, colour should and will come, and likely colour features will come to enhance the experience. Maybe 2005 I think, but I wonder what price impact and perfomance impact it will have.

Hardrive, yep they will continue to go up, possibly get smaller.

Reading, I thought they did that now...

[Doctor Q]

Many would, because you can never underestimate the Geekfactor :pNot to mention all the collectors who get one of each Apple product, no matter what it is. If there were enough of those people around, Apple could stay in business simply by bringing out new products for no other reason.

[Analog Kid]

Apple needs to concentrate on what they USED to concentrate on: desktops and laptops. Palm OS is good enough and syncable enough for anyone. Who needs Mac OS Mobile? Although I think that a new Apple PDA would be nice, I think it would not be a moneymaker for Apple. I agree with those that say that Apple should just improve on the iPod. Some ideas:

-higher res color screen (with horizontal or vertical viewing also)
-Play any MOV, MPEG, etc. movie files without having to reencode them
-huge hard drive (40+ gigs, like the top iPod)
-Read .txt or ebook files with ease

Just an entertainment thing, not an organizer...

But then they should start updating the desktops and laptops faster...
I really don't want a color screen on my iPod. In fact, this is one of the reasons I hope they don't put video playback into them. I have yet to see a portable color screen that looks as crisp as black and white. They look freaky when they're backlit, and they look like crap outdoors.

The ultra bright backlight they need to get through all the filter layers burns way too much power. They need at least three times as many pixels, so writing to the display takes more power and the grid is too obvious on such a small display.

No, keep the audio iPod black and white, and if there ever is a NewtonII, keep it black and white as well. I don't need text and line drawings in color... Greyscale is fine.

[L2GX]

I might not be the right person to give my opinion here, seeing as I use the mac as an artistic tool rather than a lifestyle accessory, but I have up to 2000 euros waiting for a working tablet pc with a solid os.

Pocket book size would be handy, they could put i-life on there, but basically its the tablet functions that interest me: painting, drawing, a digital sketchbook I can carry around.
If the new newton is going to be a pda/phone first, mac have to go up against every cell phone maker in a market where- pardon my french- they have zero experience, no contacts and no expertise.
If it is a tablet first they have a technology that is already mac compatible (wacom), and loads of artist that are itching to get their fingers on a 2year old technology that has not yet had a stable incarnation.

Then again maybe Apple wants to go with sunglasses for that complete lifestyle experience.

[SiliconAddict]

I know many of you remember the rumor not too long back about IBM revamping the current G3 processor to make it low powered and Altivec compliant (I believe the name of the chip was 750FX?). My bet is that if Apple releases this mobile device using a scaled down version of OS X, they will use this chip because if any of the iApps appear on it, or even Quicktime for sure, they will need the advanced instructions of the Velocity Engine to run smoothly.

Otherwise, it's likely to be a revamped NewtonOS with iApp-compatible applications. Any ideas?


Not to quash your idea but. NO on multiple levels. The PPC CPU is low powered when compared to desktops/laptops but for a PDA it can't compete to an ARM CPU. Slapping a heat sink on a PDA is not my idea of innovation and that's pretty much what you'd have to do on any PPC CPU. ARM or MIPS are the only two CPU's types that will give any PDA or handheld system a performance edge while still obtaining a battery life that isn't laughable and before anyone points me to the likes of Sony's picture book check what the typical battery life is before you state anything. My Newton gets at least a week off of a set of AA's. Admittedly this is because of the monochrome screen and slow CPU but its also because it’s a well designed system.

[Zaren]

Ah the Newton.

It still lives on today. It has a cult following.

I would buy a new Newton if Apple developed one. I'd be willing to pay up to $300 for goodies like AirPort WiFi, Inkwell, and Bluetooth along with a huge storage device and decent battery life. It could be done.

So go get a Newton off of Ebay, and then get the shareware that's out there that lets you do WiFi, Bluetooth, iCal syncing, mp3 playback, CompactFlash memory for storage, and more. That might put you up around $300 - the CF memory software's a bit pricey, the last time I looked. The Orinoco Silver card to do wireless shouldn't be too expensive - I know it wasn't when I got one for my Newton.

And speaking of living on today, I was using my Newton 2000 today to take notes in my first MCSA class. :D Started the day with a 20% battery alert, and by the end of the day, I was down to... 16%.

[doogle]

So go get a Newton off of Ebay, and then get the shareware that's out there that lets you do WiFi, Bluetooth, iCal syncing, mp3 playback, CompactFlash memory for storage, and more. That might put you up around $300 - the CF memory software's a bit pricey, the last time I looked. The Orinoco Silver card to do wireless shouldn't be too expensive - I know it wasn't when I got one for my Newton.

And speaking of living on today, I was using my Newton 2000 today to take notes in my first MCSA class. :D Started the day with a 20% battery alert, and by the end of the day, I was down to... 16%.

any links to make finding stuff easy would be appreciated :)

[Chaparral]

I was a relatively early adopter of the Newton... I got a Newton 110 when I was a grad student... It was so cool and elegant, and the gee-whiz geekfactor was ridiculously high... I used it for taking notes in classes and seminars, and the handwriting recognition, while picky, was highly useable for me... Nothing like being able to come home after a day of classes, attach your Newton to a lazer printer, and print out your notes!... I also used it for mundane things like the to-do lists, and even grocery shopping lists... And, of course, the address book... People used to stop me so often in the supermarket or wherever to ask me about it that it distracting, but in a "yeah, this is sooooo cooool!" kind of way... There was pocket Quicken, which allowed one to manage finances, and quite a few other apps that were neat... I was in a music comp program, and there was even a simple music notation entry program that would let me jot down thematic ideas I'd come up with during the day!... Then I got the 120, and the handwriting recognition was vastly improved... But that was a big part of the problem: The Newt was ahead of it's time, tech was advancing at a phenominal rate, and to get the new software, you had to buy an entirely new device... The 130 with the backlit screen was the last one that I was interested in... When they SuperSized it, I lost interest... The 9000 series was just too big...

I think today things could be much different... With the touch screen, you could put into "iPod Mode" and have the touchwheel etc. appear on the screen... Of course, there were no 4.5GB micro-drives in those days!... You could put in "iPhone" mode and have the telephone pad appear on the screen too [Nice if it was a wireless web phone that could tap into an AirPort net as well as a cellular]... Point is, in a device no bigger than the Newton 110/120/130 was, today you could have all of your iApps, cell/web phone, e-mail, instant messaging, and web access!... And the OS could be updatable just like on any iBook or other Mac... A single port each for FW and USB would also fit... Not to mention the AirPort Extreme card...

I use my iBook for most things now, but for us dinosaurs who never learned to type worth a rip, it still stinks not to be able to write into the thing... Not to mention the fact that the iBook won't clip to my belt [Talk about geeky]...

The Newt might have been a failure by some measures, but it blazed a trail that nobody has followed as well, and it changed me from a Win-Tel Droid into a Mac afficianado [For which I will be forever grateful!]...

I'd buy an "iLife device" [Or whatever they would call it] in a heartbeat...

[bensisko]

No, I don't see Apple getting into the PDA market at this point-- even their core market (us) is too divided. Tablets maybe, but given the utter failure of Windows in that market even after the huge marketing push it probably isn't likely.

You're missing the point on WHY Tablet PC is failing. It's not because the public doesn't want them, it's because that they are between 1.5 to 2 times more expensive then their laptop counterparts. Why buy a tablet for $2500 when you can get a laptop for $1200 (or less)? There aren'y alot of reasons to get a tablet over a laptop and paying extra, for the consumer, just doesn't make sense.

If makers of Tablet PCs would price them comparably to Laptops (or even competitively) then you would see a BIG difference.

Besides, I really don't know how "big" of a marketing push Microsoft gave the tablet PC. Yes they had an inital splashy campaign, but they started the hype so early that, when the product came out it was like "yawn!"

[L2GX]

Basically tablet pcs CAN be more expensive because they have a totally different technology and use than laptops.
Most of them are built around wacom tablets, and if you compare the price of those to a normal lcd screen you'll see the price of tablets was dead-on.

However the early adopters all reported loads of difficulties after the initial praise, both on hardware failure and os stability. This generally stopped the first generation from being a succes.

[aswitcher]

SNIP

However the early adopters all reported loads of difficulties after the initial praise, both on hardware failure and os stability. This generally stopped the first generation from being a succes.

Another big problem has been compatability. Tablets aren't always compatable with third party software. For example one of the best use of a tablet I thought for a friend was to address problems of note takign with their impaired vision. But, the tablet wouldn't allow the use of zoom-text type software to blow detail up enough to be seen by them easily etc.

[aswitcher]

Basically tablet pcs CAN be more expensive because they have a totally different technology and use than laptops.
Most of them are built around wacom tablets, and if you compare the price of those to a normal lcd screen you'll see the price of tablets was dead-on.

However the early adopters all reported loads of difficulties after the initial praise, both on hardware failure and os stability. This generally stopped the first generation from being a succes.

[iPost]

Handwriting recognition is so 20th century.

My PDA should be able to read my mind! Forget about handwriting... I want thought recognition!

Also, a true personal digital assistant should be able to:

1. Find my car keys
2. Iron my shirts and pick up my dry cleaning
3. Wash my car
4. Clean my bathroom
5. Get me laid
6. Get me courtside seats at the Lakers games
7. Stand in line for me at the movies while I park

I'd gladly pay $699 for that. What is a PocketPC going to do for me? Remind me that I have nothing planned for the next five weekends and that no one returns my calls? Yeah, that's useful.

:p

[chriscorcoran]

Ok there has been a lot of talk on this site about what would be nice or what would be cool for a newton revival but lets really spec this thing out...

+A nice Intel XScale or a TI OMAP.

+An awsome Hitatchi 4Gb Microdrive

+Of course Bluetooh

+Some Airport Extreme (No Duh!)

+A kick ass lcd display

+Now lets see about audio....Headphone Jack, Built in speakers and mic

+Dont forget expansion...(but who needs it with a 4gb hitatch)...maybe a compact flash slot.

+What about possiable expansion? Dont worry I have thought of that! How about a GPS System and a Camera

+And for applications, iTunes (Download and Play Only), iMovie (Play Only), iPhoto (Orginize and View Only), Finder, Terminal, iChatAV (Aim, Sound, Video...yes thats right I said Video), Apple Works, iCal and a yet to be named killer app.

[bensisko]

Basically tablet pcs CAN be more expensive because they have a totally different technology and use than laptops.
Most of them are built around wacom tablets, and if you compare the price of those to a normal lcd screen you'll see the price of tablets was dead-on.

I'm not debateing that, I'm just saying that price is the primary reason for lack of sales. If HP were to make a tablet and a laptop the same price it would cost them. I do believe, however, that tablet pcs with smaller screens could be made at a smaller price point (have the same laptop technology, just be a smaller screen, say Newton-sized) as an introduction to tablet technology.

[ianstanley]

gola said
___________
Personally I don´t think the PDA idea has much of a future anymore. The extended mobile phone or extended ipod might still generate some interest.
__________________________________________________________

Statistically true but then the mobile version of windoze xp has created a new market for pad based PC's :rolleyes:

In some ways the Newton is basically a second generation of pad based pc's (fully pcmcia expandable, powerful,great handwriting recognition, support for external keyboards, internal modems/ethernet cards/bluetooth/... ) as the next thing a pad based pc is going to want to be is smaller - remember those early laptops - some reached 20lbs!!! :eek:

Have we seen that the Newt was not only years ahead of the PDA market but years ahead of the pad based pc :p

[Mokona]

Handwriting recognition is so 20th century.

My PDA should be able to read my mind! Forget about handwriting... I want thought recognition!

Also, a true personal digital assistant should be able to:

1. Find my car keys
2. Iron my shirts and pick up my dry cleaning
3. Wash my car
4. Clean my bathroom
5. Get me laid
6. Get me courtside seats at the Lakers games
7. Stand in line for me at the movies while I park

I'd gladly pay $699 for that. What is a PocketPC going to do for me? Remind me that I have nothing planned for the next five weekends and that no one returns my calls? Yeah, that's useful.

:p

Sound like you need this (http://www.gizmo.com.au/public/News/news.asp?articleid=2545), apart from the getting you laid part. (Unless you meet some tech-crazy girl)

[billyboy]

30 sensors in her feet and they put her in high heels? Dressed to kill and can't go out? I won't hold my breath till these developers get it right.

[nbame786]

regardless.... whatever Apple decides on this pseudo PDA device, I am pleased with the fact that Apple has simply begun to think about possible hardware expansion strategies...]

maybe a 2 button mouse is next...

perhaps not...


funny cause they just came out with one today :)