the topic of marriage

[acidrock]

Some people have told me that they had gotten married to young, and when they got married again after being older it had worked better. A lot of my cousins are now married or getting married, we've had like four weddings in the last three years. I guess I feel left out but what are your experiences? Do you regret getting married young for those of you that have?

[darkblue]

Definitely not. I married at the age of 22, my husband 27 at the time and I have no regrets whatsoever. Of course there's the occasional tiff but that comes with every marriage and it's how you deal with it which makes all the difference.
It differs from couple of couple I suppose, personally my man taught me a lot whilst we were dating and it felt very natural to marry then although I was still young, in uni and he was also completing a medical degree. :)

[Roger1]

I've been married for almost 13 years marrying at the tender age of 24. Do I regret it? No. I love my wife and my two kids very much. Would I do it over again? YES :cool:

[idkew]

Of course there's the occasional tiff but that comes with every marriage and it's how you deal with it which makes all the difference.

i normally shoot in jpg, as for what i do with them, i just keep them in iphoto.

[bryanc]

Personally, I'm opposed to marriage at any age, but if you're determined to support that particular antiquated social construct, I strongly encourage you to delay as long as you can.

Any individual will continue to change throughout their entire life, but the *rate* of change (generally) slows down as we age. So if you've found someone who seems to be your 'soul-mate' at the age of 17, chances are you'll both change so much by the time your 30 you won't have such compatible personalities anymore. On the other hand, if you wait 'til you're in your mid-late thirties before getting married, the person you're with will likely still be pretty compatible with you when you in your 60's.

Cheers

[wdlove]

I got married in September 1972. My wife was 26 and I was 24. For us it was love at first sight. We have been happily married now for over 31 years. The choice to get married is an individual one. Marriage isn't meant for everyone, that shows in our abysmal divorce rate. No one should get married under social pressure.

I have never regretted married for one moment.

[miloblithe]

It's interesting that someone wrote in saying 24 is young for marraige. I'm sure there are some people who would consider that normal, or even old. I'm 30 and engaged, and will be 31 by the time July and marraige rolls around.

acidrock,

What ae are these cousins of yours? What age are you? You seem to have left that info out.

[fartheststar]

I got married at 24, been married 5 years and it's working great. My wife was 22 when we got married. I love my wife and it still feels the same as when we first got married. We're best friends.

I think the biggest thing is to get married for the right reasons, because you love someone, not because it is 'the thing to do' or because everyone seems to do it. You also have to keep it fresh and new.

I have a friend who's getting married this summer. He is already having problems. His fiancee is already complaining that they don't spend enough time together. He's responded by telling her "this is the way marriage is going to be". He's already "telling her" how their marriage will be based on the example he's seen growing up from his parents. He's told her "I will leave for work at 6 and come home at 6, have dinner and go to bed at 9". I'm NOT kidding. He's already working long hours now. She's starting to lash out because she wants more attention.

Each marriage is different. Mine feels no different then when we were dating. That's the way it should be. Mind you, lots of folks change the way they behave when they get "married" for some reason.

You can't expect yours will be the same as another one. You have to strike a balance between the two of you (who get married).

And a few last bits of advice on marriage:

1. Never go to bed mad.
2. Once you say something you cannot take it back. Think first.
3. Respect each other unconditionally and
4. If you are upset at something your spouse has done, figure out if it's a man vs woman issue or a personality conflict. Men and women behave differently and I find over 95% of problems in a marriage can be explained by the differences between the two sexes. If you realize this you can take the "personal" issue out of the equasion and work together to work through these men/women problems. ;)
5. Don't let kids monopolize your life to the point that your significant other is ignored.

That's all of my advice.

[acidrock]

It's interesting that someone wrote in saying 24 is young for marraige. I'm sure there are some people who would consider that normal, or even old. I'm 30 and engaged, and will be 31 by the time July and marraige rolls around.

acidrock,

What ae are these cousins of yours? What age are you? You seem to have left that info out.

I did not per say, mean that I wanted to get married, just was courious about what people's thoughts were. I would eventually like to but I am waiting until I find the right person, the question is will I know it when I do. Well I normally didn't want to give my age out but I will this time, I"m 25 turning 26 later this year, and I am in college. Most of the cousins that are getting married are in there 30s I think, but I have one getting married this summer who is probably 25ish, (honestly I can't remember). For me it just feels so strange to have all my cousins getting married, and I'm not.

[job]

There are some people in my high school who are already engaged. They are not even seniors yet. Of the four couples, 3 of them are juniors and one of them is a sophomore.

Waaaayyyy too young to be getting hitched if you ask me. They haven't even seen what else is out there and already they are deciding to marry.

[darkblue]

Personally, I'm opposed to marriage at any age, but if you're determined to support that particular antiquated social construct, I strongly encourage you to delay as long as you can.


That may be relevant to some people, and although it may not be such a strong influence these days, isn't having kids and starting a family still part of getting married? Marriage can be the best thing in the world and the more you delay it, the more you're missing out being with the person you love.

Also delaying marriage means delaying kids (if you have any) and the biological clock keeps on ticking...no matter what advancement in technology says. You may be more financially stable as you get older yes I agree, but the odds of having healthy children are much better at a younger age. As you get older, the likelihood of disorders in children such as Downs Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy etc increases.
So obviously there are pros and cons which have to be weighed up within relationships as it differs from person to person...and these decisions can be made ONLY within the relationship of the two people. :cool:

[Awimoway]

I think it's safe to say that the younger you marry, the better the odds are that you'll grow apart. On the other hand, I'm not totally impressed with the way educated classes do it in society today--marrying late and having one or two kids so damn late that the parents are easily in their 60s when the kids graduate from high school. Parents and kids best relate to each other, and the parents have more energy for the kids, when they are closer in age. Within reason of course. I'm not advocating teen pregnancies.



Anyway, my wife and I married young. We met when we were 18, college freshmen. The moment I first laid eyes on her, I knew I would marry her. We waited until we were 22 to marry. It has been hell on our finances, because we had kids right away while still getting through college. But it was the right thing to do and the right time to do it. I would do it over again the same way. It would have been easier if we had waited to have kids, but it was the right time for them to come.


However I think the whole concern about growing apart is silly. No matter what age you marry, both partners are going to change. If the only reason you married was because you like to watch the same tv shows or listen to the same kind of music, well that's not much of a foundation for a marriage. My wife and I can't stand each other's tv viewing choices. But it's irrelevant. We love each other. We've made a life commitment. We don't obsess over trivialities.

[Nanda Devi]

Marriage can be the best thing in the world and the more you delay it, the more you're missing out being with the person you love.

It's funny you say that, because I've been with my boyfriend for 7 years now (we've lived together for more than 5) and the main reason we're not married is because we know it will have no impact on our relationship... in other words, I'm in no way "missing out on being with the person I love" by not being married to him. We do everything together, share everything (expenses, credit cards, possessions, etc.) and we are best friends. While I'm not against getting married, and will probably marry him at some point, it does seem sort of pointless... especially because neither of us are religious, and marriage is usually a religious ceremony. If we do ever get married, it will be outside somewhere, not in a church.

So I tend to agree with bryanc, that it's always best to wait, wait, wait! There is absolutely no point in jumping in to marriage.


Also delaying marriage means delaying kids (if you have any) and the biological clock keeps on ticking...


Who says you have to be married before you can have kids? It's really not a pre-requisite. However, on the subject of kids, I would say that not jumping in to parenthood is even more important than not jumping in to marriage. Because while marriage may not have much of an impact on your life, kids will change it forever. (I don't have kids, but I know that when I do have them my life will never be the same again, and that's why I'm going to hold off on that until I've done all the things I want to do in life that would be impossible with kids. I'm 27 now, so I'm hoping to be able to wait until I'm about 32 or 33. It is true you can't wait too long without taking a risk....)

ND

[MongoTheGeek]

There are some people in my high school who are already engaged. They are not even seniors yet. Of the four couples, 3 of them are juniors and one of them is a sophomore.

Waaaayyyy too young to be getting hitched if you ask me. They haven't even seen what else is out there and already they are deciding to marry.

In my high school there were girls having babies (I know at least one with more than 1) Old enough for sex is old enough for marriage.

Personally I married at 24 to a 32 year old woman who is absolutely wonderful. Its been 6 years and still going strong. The important thing is commitment.

[carbonmotion]

In my high school there were girls having babies (I know at least one with more than 1) Old enough for sex is old enough for marriage.

Personally I married at 24 to a 32 year old woman who is absolutely wonderful. Its been 6 years and still going strong. The important thing is commitment.

I didn't start having responsible sex till i was out of highschool... i think anytime you decide to become a responsible mature adult, is the time you should start having sex. Anytime after that you feel economically and emotionally stable enough for a child, you should have a baby...ofcouse im 19 what do i know?

[cr2sh]

Personally, I'm opposed to marriage at any age, but if you're determined to support that particular antiquated social construct, I strongly encourage you to delay as long as you can.

That's exactly right, because when I think of reasons why I should marry the woman I love.. it always comes back to me being determined to support (an) antiquated social construct. :rolleyes: :)

I'm interested in wdlove's story of love at first site... tell us more please. Did you think within moments of meeting her, I'm going to marry this woman? Did she feel the same way? How long did you guys date? How long were you engaged? Was the courting an ideal relationship, as far as breakups or 'on again, off again'? :) :confused:

[virividox]

I got married in September 1972. My wife was 26 and I was 24. For us it was love at first sight. We have been happily married now for over 31 years. The choice to get married is an individual one. Marriage isn't meant for everyone, that shows in our abysmal divorce rate. No one should get married under social pressure.

I have never regretted married for one moment.

congratulations!!!

[WinterMute]

I very nearly got married in Uni, I was 21, it would have been a complete disaster, we stayed together for 5 or 6 months after the date, and it ended very badly (she stabbed me).... :eek:

We didn't marry because the registrar needed 48 hours notice, so we had a pizza instead...

I married at 31, and I think I was only just ready for it then, you really have to work at a marriage, especially when the kids arrive, and I simply wasn't ready at 21.

[Mr. Anderson]

Got married when I was 37 - been married a couple years now and I have no regrets and I'm looking forward to spend the rest of my life with her. It just took me a little longer to find my wife. No way to know, but if we had met 10 years earlier, I'd have laid good odds we'd still have been married. :D

D

[wdlove]

That's exactly right, because when I think of reasons why I should marry the woman I love.. it always comes back to me being determined to support (an) antiquated social construct. :rolleyes: :)

I'm interested in wdlove's story of love at first site... tell us more please. Did you think within moments of meeting her, I'm going to marry this woman? Did she feel the same way? How long did you guys date? How long were you engaged? Was the courting an ideal relationship, as far as breakups or 'on again, off again'? :) :confused:

An answer to an above comment, a lot of kids in my high school class got engaged and married soon after graduation. Then by our 5th reunion the majority were divorced. To me it was very sad.

I'm not sure of the exact moment that I realized she was the one. This was completely out of character for me, but I ask her to marry me on our third date. My wife said that she right away also. She also said yes to that question on our third date. This was in February, after Valentine's Day.

She was the type that called me every day. At the time I was in nursing school. When you are in love, that person is on your mind constantly. It started to cause me difficulty with my school work. So I took a great risk. I told her not to call and that we needed to not contact each other for awhile, sot that I could concentrate on my studies. Them after the end of finals we resumed like nothing ever happened. She said that she understood.

Originally the plan was to get married in December of that same year. I was anxious to get married. Preferred to get the wedding out of the way prior to returning to nursing school. We had a honeymoon. Then stayed at her parents till our condominium was ready. School started before we moved.

I look back in amazement at all that you have just read. It's like that was a different person.

[cr2sh]

When you are in love, that person is on your mind constantly.

Thanks wdlove... something to think about.

I met Kelly about a month ago.. within 10 minutes of talking to her I thought "I'm going to be best friends with this girl the rest of my life." I had a crush on her instantly, but thought she was way too pretty and nice and funny.. and amazing, to feel the same way about me. Two weeks later (after we had a discussion about the IRQ modem conflict on the old VIA Super Socket 7 chipset) I found out that she did... and though I'm 1800miles away from her this week.. she says I'm all she thinks about and its the same way for me. Love at first site.. who knows.. but I've never met a person who's made me feel this good about myself. :)

****.. way to postjack a thread with sappiness. :rolleyes:

it ended very badly (she stabbed me)...
i hate putting 'hahahaha' in a post.. but that's hilarious. :D

[rueyeet]

For me it just feels so strange to have all my cousins getting married, and I'm not.

I know how you feel....all my friends are now getting married off, even the ones I never thought would find anyone who'd put up with them. It's wierd, everyone just pairing up, and me still here doing my own thing.

Two things, though: I still have no intentions of marriage, and no one at present who could make me change my mind on that point. I like being single, and don't have the kind of patience and tolerance that contributes to a successful marriage. It just feels like everyone's going off into some other territory into which I know I don't want to follow...

...though, the second thing is that this is largely because most of them will be having kids, which is something I DEFINITELY don't want to do. (that patience and tolerance thing again ;) ) Kids really do change everything. I never feel out-of-sync with the childless married couples I know.

I definitely think there's such a thing as too young for marriage, but don't think that's a fixed point--but then, neither is maturity, without some measure of which no one should get married. And if you want kids, it's probably best to not put it off so long that you're retiring right when you'll need to pay college tuition. Other than that, it's up to the couple involved whether marriage is for them or not.

[wdlove]

Thanks wdlove... something to think about.

I met Kelly about a month ago.. within 10 minutes of talking to her I thought "I'm going to be best friends with this girl the rest of my life." I had a crush on her instantly, but thought she was way too pretty and nice and funny.. and amazing, to feel the same way about me. Two weeks later (after we had a discussion about the IRQ modem conflict on the old VIA Super Socket 7 chipset) I found out that she did... and though I'm 1800miles away from her this week.. she says I'm all she thinks about and its the same way for me. Love at first site.. who knows.. but I've never met a person who's made me feel this good about myself. :)

****.. way to postjack a thread with sappiness. :rolleyes:


i hate putting 'hahahaha' in a post.. but that's hilarious. :D

I really hope that you find the same lifelong companion in Kelly that I found with my wife. Your comments sound as though you may have found your soul mate. It's a coincidence that it only happened to us about 20 miles apart. We both lived in Middletown at the time. Please keep me informed as to how your life progresses.

[job]

Old enough for sex is old enough for marriage.

I don't know about that. If you are able to doesn't mean you should. A person, who, while physically capable of having sex, may not be mentally prepared for later repercussions, especially while still in high school.

[WinterMute]

i hate putting 'hahahaha' in a post.. but that's hilarious. :D

Oh yeah, laugh a minute as I'm sitting in casualty having a pair of long-handled nail scissors cut out of my back.... :rolleyes:

Seriously, I was often attracted to the wrong women, Steph was merely the wrongest of a long line of wrongness.

I met my wife in Uni at around the same time, she was my best friend for over ten years before we both decided that we'd been looking in all the wrong places.... plus she hasn't stabbed me yet. :D

[MongoTheGeek]

I don't know about that. If you are able to doesn't mean you should. A person, who, while physically capable of having sex, may not be mentally prepared for later repercussions, especially while still in high school.

That was sort of my point. If a person isn't old enough/mature enough to handle marriage and family and all of the responsibilities then they should abstain.

[Krizoitz]

Personally, I'm opposed to marriage at any age, but if you're determined to support that particular antiquated social construct, I strongly encourage you to delay as long as you can.

Any individual will continue to change throughout their entire life, but the *rate* of change (generally) slows down as we age. So if you've found someone who seems to be your 'soul-mate' at the age of 17, chances are you'll both change so much by the time your 30 you won't have such compatible personalities anymore. On the other hand, if you wait 'til you're in your mid-late thirties before getting married, the person you're with will likely still be pretty compatible with you when you in your 60's.

Cheers

I must strongly disagree. Of course you are going to change, life is full of change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to make a commitment. The whole point of marriage is that you want to change with someone. In a succesful marriage you grow closer together. What makes a succesful marriage? Well for me its about commitment, trust, love, and hard work. Anyone who gets married or even in a relationship expecting everything to sudenly work out in some fairy tale fashion is in for a surprise. Marriage isn't just about falling for someone, its about actively commiting yourself to that person and that relationship.

Personally i think that alot of people get married for the wrong reasons, or go into it with the wrong attitude. Thats why divorce is such a problem. American's have gotten so lazy it seems (I'm American, so i'm not foreign bashing) that they aren't willing to work for anything worthwhile. Obviously this is a general social trend and there are plenty of Americans who are willing, and obviously some marriages don't work out despite the best efforts of both parties, but I still believe that the larger cause is a lack of understanding going in and a lack of effort during.

I think that marriage doesn't have a set date. I have friends who got married right out of high school and are still happilly married today. Of course there are others who waited til later. My own parents were married at the tender age of 21 and have a strong marriage that I can only hope to emulate someday when I find the right girl.

Personally marriage is also part of my faith, it is a holy gift from God, so that also makes me very respectful of it. Things like Britney Spears vegas wedding disgust me because its further proof that people just don't respect marriage and maybe thats why we have so many problems. Who knows, just my thoughts.

[carbonmotion]

Um, well, there is this thing called birth control you know....pills and contraceptives?
That was sort of my point. If a person isn't old enough/mature enough to handle marriage and family and all of the responsibilities then they should abstain.

[MongoTheGeek]

Um, well, there is this thing called birth control you know....pills and contraceptives?

And they should be used until you want a child but they are not 100%. I'm not taking the strict no sex except to make kids position, God made it so much fun for a reason, but, until you can deal with the responsibilities of a family.

Maybe I'm just too old...

[Nuc]

I'm getting married this weekend and I wanted to write a small poem for my wife to be, however I think the one I wrote is a little cheesy: Critique it and fire at will.....or should I just leave the poem out altogether....

Here it is:
------------
When I say to you that I love you then I know you’re the person for me.

When I tell you that I love you, you are the best that has ever happened to me.

When I express to you that I love you I know you feel the same.

When I state that I love you I know we will forever be.
------------
Thanks,

Nuc

[wdlove]

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials this weekend. I hope that you will be as happy as I have. Your words come from the heart and so I think that you fiance' will treasure them.

[AmigoMac]

This year I'll be 6 years together with my wife, since we met, I'm 23, so, do the math, we have 2 children and we have a lot of fun...

I told her: Do you believe in love at first sight?
She: "No, I don't"
Me : "Then, wait, I will pass again " ;)

[bryanc]

That may be relevant to some people, and although it may not be such a strong influence these days, isn't having kids and starting a family still part of getting married? Marriage can be the best thing in the world and the more you delay it, the more you're missing out being with the person you love.

Also delaying marriage means delaying kids (if you have any)

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not at all opposed to relationships, or, in principle one or two children (I have one). Although I also think most people have children before they, themselves, are sufficiently mature. I'm simply opposed to 'marriage' in that I don't see what business the church or state have in my personal relationships.

Still, I'd like to see a child-tax, and/or a tax-break for people who choose not to have children. Speaking as a parent, having children is probably the most selfish thing a person can do in their lives (but I'm certainly enjoying it:-)

Cheers

[bryanc]

I must strongly disagree. Of course you are going to change, life is full of change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to make a commitment. The whole point of marriage is that you want to change with someone. In a succesful marriage you grow closer together.

You are, of course, entirely entitled to your opinions. But I suspect we are not in as much of a disagreement here as you think (or, perhaps more likely, disagreeing about a different topic). I encourage people to form committed relationships and try to grow and change together...I just don't think that has anything to do with marriage. I've been in a committed relationship for well over twenty years, and we all know plenty of marriages that have all the stability of a Microsoft OS. My point is that the quality of a relationship has nothing to do with whether it has been sanctified by some church or otherwise made official with the state...the relationship depends entirely upon those comprising it.

Personally marriage is also part of my faith, it is a holy gift from God, so that also makes me very respectful of it. Things like Britney Spears vegas wedding disgust me because its further proof that people just don't respect marriage and maybe thats why we have so many problems. Who knows, just my thoughts.

This, I suspect, is the nub of the matter. If you're convinced that the mumblings of some witch doctor, or other rituals are required to make your relationship okay with your invisible friends, by all means go and have a wedding. But recognize that there are plenty of people out there who don't have these insecurities, and consequently have no need for the rituals. Each to their own.

Cheers

[rueyeet]

If you're convinced that the mumblings of some witch doctor, or other rituals are required to make your relationship okay with your invisible friends, by all means go and have a wedding. But recognize that there are plenty of people out there who don't have these insecurities, and consequently have no need for the rituals.

That's somewhat unnecessarily hostile. There's nothing wrong with a belief in the divine, and choosing to make such beliefs a part of the important moments in your life...or even the not-so-important moments. I wouldn't define faith as insecurity, it's simply not something beholden to or a part of logic, which is the whole point of it.

I would agree with you, however, that equal recognition and validity should be given by our society to those who do not hold such beliefs, and don't see the need to tie the concept of marriage up in religion. The love and commitment of two individuals to each other in a lifetime partnership is amazing enough even without religious overtones! :)

[bryanc]

That's somewhat unnecessarily hostile.

Somewhat sarcastic, perhaps, but not (intentionally) hostile. Many of my best friends are theists. I love them dearly, but I do think they're suffering from a contagious mental illness.

Cheers

[bennetsaysargh]

i normally shoot in jpg, as for what i do with them, i just keep them in iphoto.

funny, but true. you can say that about any relationship i guess.

[Krizoitz]

This, I suspect, is the nub of the matter. If you're convinced that the mumblings of some witch doctor, or other rituals are required to make your relationship okay with your invisible friends, by all means go and have a wedding. But recognize that there are plenty of people out there who don't have these insecurities, and consequently have no need for the rituals. Each to their own.


Perhaps you should take a step back and realize what an arrogant statement that is. While you have every right to believe what you will, in a civilized discussion you are expected to treat others opinions with respect.
First of all the language that you use to refer to my beliefs is condescending, rude, and absolutely unnecessary.
Second, for you to dismiss the reasons why faith is important in my marriage as insecurities is to not only put words in my mouth but to close yourself off to any and all possible intelligent discussion on the matter.
I am fortunate enough to have friends of a vast array of different belief systems. Whether they be agnostic, christian, jew, or wiccan, they all share one thing in common, a respect for each others beliefs. I would encourage you to try and learn that respect as well. You may not believe what they do, and thats fine, but you might find that if you don't so easily dismiss their views that they might have something to teach you, even if its not faith.

Before I go I would like to point out one last thing. It is impossible to logically prove the existence of God. It is equally impossible to prove he DOESN'T exist. While you are certainly entitled to believe He (or some other higher power) doesn't exist it is just that, a belief, based on assumptions and ideas that you have accepted that can't be impirical proven. So before you go around pointing out my imaginary beliefs, you should think about the fact that your's while they may not be labeled religious are essentially that.

[Awimoway]

bryanc, your post was arrogant and uncalled for. All married people are insecure? Sounds to me like a case of a pot calling the kettle black.

But this isn't a debate about god. Is marriage inherently religious? That's an interesting question. I don't think it necessarily is. I think one of the more important aspects of marriage is a legally solemnized commitment. And it doesn't take religion to appreciate the importance of a binding token of fidelity and commitment, which is what marriage is all about. But it does take maturity. Maybe that's why bryanc can't grasp the concept. :rolleyes:

[Krizoitz]

bryanc, your post was arrogant and uncalled for. All married people are insecure? Sounds to me like a case of a pot calling the kettle black.

But this isn't a debate about god. Is marriage inherently religious? That's an interesting question. I don't think it necessarily is. I think one of the more important aspects of marriage is a legally solemnized commitment. And it doesn't take religion to appreciate the importance of a binding token of fidelity and commitment, which is what marriage is all about. But it does take maturity. Maybe that's why bryanc can't grasp the concept. :rolleyes:

I have to agree, I also would like to point out that I said for me religion is an important part of it. I didn't claim it was or needed to be for everyone. Just goes to show that people will read what they want to and not what is actually said.

[bryanc]

but that doesn't mean I think you're right. Firstly, as I mentioned, I too have many friends and family who subscribe to various religions or other types of magical thinking.

We're all taught that we should 'respect other people's beliefs' but I actually don't agree. I think we should respect other people, and their rights to believe what they will, but not necessarily their beliefs. I'm a scientist. I can't go around thinking at all beliefs are inherently equal...they aren't. Some beliefs are rational, and based on evidence or logic. Others are just silly superstitions. I'm not going to give the same respect to both types of beliefs.

On the other-hand, you are perfectly correct that I should still treat you with respect, even though I disagree with some of your beliefs. I'm certain that we have many beliefs in common, and we might even get along well.

With respect to your argument that it's impossible to prove the existence of Zeus or any other religious figure, that is not true...it's perfectly possible (Zeus, if he existed, could pop out of thin air in front of me and say "here I am...QED.") it just hasn't happened. You are, however, correct in saying it's impossible to *disprove* the existence of Zeus or any other religious figure...that's one of the inherent flaws of religious beliefs...they are not subject to falsification. That's why any rational thinker has to start with the *absence* of belief, and formulate beliefs on the basis of reason and evidence.

And, just for the record, I *am* married. After living together happily unmarried for 17 years, my partner and I were forced to get married when I came down to the States for a few years to do some research...the INS wouldn't let her across the border unless we were married, so we paid the $135 and got a marriage certificate. It is a completely meaningless piece of paper, neither of us can even remember the date of our 'wedding'. But it kept the knuckle-draggers at the US border happy.

Cheers

[Awimoway]

We're all taught that we should 'respect other people's beliefs' but I actually don't agree. I think we should respect other people, and their rights to believe what they will, but not necessarily their beliefs. I'm a scientist. I can't go around thinking at all beliefs are inherently equal...they aren't. Some beliefs are rational, and based on evidence or logic. Others are just silly superstitions. I'm not going to give the same respect to both types of beliefs.

On the other-hand, you are perfectly correct that I should still treat you with respect, even though I disagree with some of your beliefs.

Well since you apologized I won't lecture you on showing respect to others by not speaking disrespectfully of their beliefs in their presence. But they do go hand in hand.

[Neserk]

I believe, statistically, getting married later than earlier is a good sign for a longer lasting, healthier marriage. I changed a great deal between when I graduated from high school and when I turned 30. So getting married at 22 out of college would have meant marrying someone who didn't fit with me at the age of 30. And I think a lot of people go through that. So I would say wait until you are at least 25. You are more likely to make a better choice in spouse ;)

I see a lot of people get hung up on the whole wedding not seeming to realize that after the big fancy beautiful wedding they are going to actually be married and have to spend the rest of their lives with this person or go through a painful divorce.

[Neserk]

I got married in September 1972. My wife was 26 and I was 24. For us it was love at first sight. We have been happily married now for over 31 years. The choice to get married is an individual one. Marriage isn't meant for everyone, that shows in our abysmal divorce rate. No one should get married under social pressure.

I have never regretted married for one moment.

That would be a good testimonial to getting married older than younger ;)

[Neserk]

That may be relevant to some people, and although it may not be such a strong influence these days, isn't having kids and starting a family still part of getting married?


Not for everyone. For many marriage is about companionship. I hate being alone for more than a 24 hours. Although that is not why I got married, it is a benefit :D

[Neserk]

I think it's safe to say that the younger you marry, the better the odds are that you'll grow apart. On the other hand, I'm not totally impressed with the way educated classes do it in society today--marrying late and having one or two kids so damn late that the parents are easily in their 60s when the kids graduate from high school. Parents and kids best relate to each other, and the parents have more energy for the kids, when they are closer in age. Within reason of course. I'm not advocating teen pregnancies.



My parents had me when they were 24... for my other sisters they were 22 and 20... now they realize that when they are 80 we will be mid/late 50's to 60... we aren't sure who will be taking care of who ;) So I think there is something to say for having kids later than earlier!

[Neserk]

In my high school there were girls having babies (I know at least one with more than 1) Old enough for sex is old enough for marriage.




Actually, that is not true. Our bodies are ready for sex and children long before our brains our! I believe if you do some searching you will find that children born to older parents (27 +) fare better than children born to 22 year olds. Just because we are horny doesn't mean we are ready for life long commitments!

[Neserk]

I must strongly disagree. Of course you are going to change, life is full of change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to make a commitment. The whole point of marriage is that you want to change with someone. In a succesful marriage you grow closer together. What makes a succesful marriage? Well for me its about commitment, trust, love, and hard work. Anyone who gets married or even in a relationship expecting everything to sudenly work out in some fairy tale fashion is in for a surprise. Marriage isn't just about falling for someone, its about actively commiting yourself to that person and that relationship.


So you don't think it is a problem if your Christian wife out grows her faith and becomes agnostic? Are you going to change with her?


Personally i think that alot of people get married for the wrong reasons, or go into it with the wrong attitude. Thats why divorce is such a problem. American's have gotten so lazy it seems (I'm American, so i'm not foreign bashing) that they aren't willing to work for anything worthwhile. Obviously this is a general social trend and there are plenty of Americans who are willing, and obviously some marriages don't work out despite the best efforts of both parties, but I still believe that the larger cause is a lack of understanding going in and a lack of effort during.


I disagree. I know quite a few people who have gone through divorces. It is one of the most horrible, painful things you can experience. The people I know didn't get divorced until they had put a lot of years, pain, and work into their marriages. Marriages end for a lot reasons and until you have been through it you can't possibly understand. Although a close friend of mine tells me that in the movie: Under the Tuscon Sun gives you a good idea of the pain.


I think that marriage doesn't have a set date. I have friends who got married right out of high school and are still happilly married today. Of course there are others who waited til later. My own parents were married at the tender age of 21 and have a strong marriage that I can only hope to emulate someday when I find the right girl.


my parents also married young. But the world is different now. And one example of an apparently happy marriage doesn't mean they all are. I think you will find that when your friends start to get divorced you will be shocked at the ones who do. Because you had thought all along they were *so* happy together and so perfect for each other.

[Awimoway]

That would be a good testimonial to getting married older than younger ;)

I guess that depends on your definition of "old." Nowadays, I think an older marriage would be 28, 29 and up. I'm not saying 24-27 is young (and I'm 28, FWIW), but it seems to me that most people these days that marry are either immature and 17-21 or very mature (too mature, in my opinion) and about 28 and up. I don't know a lot of people who marry nowadays between those age groups. (Well, I do. I'm Mormon. I know tons who get married in between those two ages. I'm one of them. But we're not like the norm. Marriage is the focal point of our religion. So I'm speaking about non-Mormons here.)

[Neserk]

And they should be used until you want a child but they are not 100%. I'm not taking the strict no sex except to make kids position, God made it so much fun for a reason, but, until you can deal with the responsibilities of a family.

Maybe I'm just too old...


Abstinence is always the safest way to go...

[Neserk]

Still, I'd like to see a child-tax, and/or a tax-break for people who choose not to have children.


I agree. I think after 2 children parent's should stop getting tax refunds for their kids... in the world we live in today we are way over crowded. I think those of us who can't or choose not to have kids (or at least limit ourselves) should be rewarded with a tax break for not over populating the world. I also think people who adopt children should get tax breaks. So if you want to have a huge family you can have 2 of your own and adopt 20, if you want to. Heaven knows they are out there in need of good loving homes!

[Neserk]

You are, of course, entirely entitled to your opinions. But I suspect we are not in as much of a disagreement here as you think (or, perhaps more likely, disagreeing about a different topic). I encourage people to form committed relationships and try to grow and change together...I just don't think that has anything to do with marriage. I've been in a committed relationship for well over twenty years, and we all know plenty of marriages that have all the stability of a Microsoft OS. My point is that the quality of a relationship has nothing to do with whether it has been sanctified by some church or otherwise made official with the state...the relationship depends entirely upon those comprising it.


I agree with you. And since it is so easy to get married and 1/2 of those end in divorce anyhow I think that having it santified by a church or other religious institution means nothing. Born Again Christians, btw, have a higher divorce rate then the rest of the groups of people... interesting... I'll have to find my source for that..



This, I suspect, is the nub of the matter. If you're convinced that the mumblings of some witch doctor, or other rituals are required to make your relationship okay with your invisible friends, by all means go and have a wedding. But recognize that there are plenty of people out there who don't have these insecurities, and consequently have no need for the rituals. Each to their own.


Each to their own...

[Neserk]

Perhaps you should take a step back and realize what an arrogant statement that is. While you have every right to believe what you will, in a civilized discussion you are expected to treat others opinions with respect.
First of all the language that you use to refer to my beliefs is condescending, rude, and absolutely unnecessary.
Second, for you to dismiss the reasons why faith is important in my marriage as insecurities is to not only put words in my mouth but to close yourself off to any and all possible intelligent discussion on the matter.
I am fortunate enough to have friends of a vast array of different belief systems. Whether they be agnostic, christian, jew, or wiccan, they all share one thing in common, a respect for each others beliefs. I would encourage you to try and learn that respect as well. You may not believe what they do, and thats fine, but you might find that if you don't so easily dismiss their views that they might have something to teach you, even if its not faith.




I think you are overreacting... I didn't find his opinion to be anything but that, his opinion...

[Neserk]

bryanc, your post was arrogant and uncalled for. All married people are insecure? Sounds to me like a case of a pot calling the kettle black.


You are misunderstanding what he wrote. He certainly didn't say that all married people are insecure. And he has an excellent point. My husband and I got married because even though our commitment was very strong prior to marriage we were insecure with how people related to us when they found out we were not married. So I can attest to exactly what he is saying.



But this isn't a debate about god. Is marriage inherently religious? That's an interesting question. I don't think it necessarily is. I think one of the more important aspects of marriage is a legally solemnized commitment. And it doesn't take religion to appreciate the importance of a binding token of fidelity and commitment, which is what marriage is all about. But it does take maturity. Maybe that's why bryanc can't grasp the concept. :rolleyes:

And yet that is the argument used for why Gay Marriage should be banned :Roll:

If Bryanc is in a 20 year relationship with the same person he understands what "marriage" is at its very heart. He is obviously highly committed to his Significant Other and they would certainly have an easy time getting out of the relationship if they weren't.

[Neserk]

I guess that depends on your definition of "old." Nowadays, I think an older marriage would be 28, 29 and up. I'm not saying 24-27 is young (and I'm 28, FWIW), but it seems to me that most people these days that marry are either immature and 17-21 or very mature (too mature, in my opinion) and about 28 and up. I don't know a lot of people who marry nowadays between those age groups. (Well, I do. I'm Mormon. I know tons who get married in between those two ages. I'm one of them. But we're not like the norm. Marriage is the focal point of our religion. So I'm speaking about non-Mormons here.)


The 18-24 years olds should abstain from marriage. I think in order to protect marriage we should make illegal to get married until you are 25 years of age. The Divorce rate would certainly drop...

[Daveman Deluxe]

I agree with you. And since it is so easy to get married and 1/2 of those end in divorce anyhow I think that having it santified by a church or other religious institution means nothing. Born Again Christians, btw, have a higher divorce rate then the rest of the groups of people... interesting... I'll have to find my source for that..

I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's really easy to call yourself a born-again Christian without actually LIVING it.

According to my pastor, who got this from a poll by one of the larger polling houses:
1/3 marraiges in the U.S. end by divorce.
1/50 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister of said church end in divorce.
1/1,102 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister, between two people who attend Sunday services together and who spend time praying and reading the Bible with their families, end in divorce.

Food for thought.

[cr2sh]

1/1,102 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister, between two people who attend Sunday services together and who spend time praying and reading the Bible with their families, end in divorce.

Yeh but seriously.. if I have to go through all that, is it really worth it?

The day my wife tries to get me to sit down and read the bible is the day I file for divorce. Religion consumes people's lives.. it gives them a reason to live.. I'm sure if a couple devoted themselves to heroin together, the divorce statistic would be similar.

I don't see a difference.

[jennyjennydz]

Yeh but seriously.. if I have to go through all that, is it really worth it?.

Religous marriage/commitment I support 100% for people who choose it. Make your vows before your partner, your friends and family, and your God.

Civil marriage is crap, sorry. Don't invite the gov't to your wedding.

--

WAR IS PEACE
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

[pseudobrit]

I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's really easy to call yourself a born-again Christian without actually LIVING it.

According to my pastor, who got this from a poll by one of the larger polling houses:
1/3 marraiges in the U.S. end by divorce.
1/50 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister of said church end in divorce.
1/1,102 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister, between two people who attend Sunday services together and who spend time praying and reading the Bible with their families, end in divorce.

Food for thought.

I question the accuracy of that poll. I've heard the divorce rate is up to 53% now. I know I've heard at least 40%+ for the past few years now.

[Sayhey]

I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's really easy to call yourself a born-again Christian without actually LIVING it.

According to my pastor, who got this from a poll by one of the larger polling houses:
1/3 marraiges in the U.S. end by divorce.
1/50 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister of said church end in divorce.
1/1,102 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister, between two people who attend Sunday services together and who spend time praying and reading the Bible with their families, end in divorce.

Food for thought.

Daveman, I don't doubt that divorce in churches that frown on divorce is more rare than the population as a whole. I'm not sure that is always a good thing. In my own family, my grandparents got a divorce in a time (late 30s) that it meant scandal. It was never talked about for much of my childhood as some kind of horrible secret, but when I asked about their lives together it only made sense. Divorce can be a very important option for people and while it maybe that many people take it too lightly, I think many more are in horrible marriages that they don't have the courage to end because of children or fear of loneliness. Anyway my two cents.

[Neserk]

I think that has a lot to do with the fact that it's really easy to call yourself a born-again Christian without actually LIVING it.

According to my pastor, who got this from a poll by one of the larger polling houses:
1/3 marraiges in the U.S. end by divorce.
1/50 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister of said church end in divorce.
1/1,102 marraiges in the U.S. conducted in a church by a minister, between two people who attend Sunday services together and who spend time praying and reading the Bible with their families, end in divorce.

Food for thought.

except I highly doubt the accuracy of the stats, especially the last one.

[Krizoitz]

except I highly doubt the accuracy of the stats, especially the last one.

I agree but I would be interested to see some verifiable statistics on this, it would be interesting.

[Neserk]

I agree but I would be interested to see some verifiable statistics on this, it would be interesting.

It would be but I have no doubt that those being polled would lie ;) Kind of like my students do when they shared that last night they did their homework all night! They say what they think the teacher wants to hear. Not what they actually did.