Vladimir Putin to Michael Dell: 'We don't need help. We are not invalids.'

[theotherguy]

Ever since Vladimir Putin rose to power in 2000, his political opponents and entire countries have learned to their cost that he has a tough, demeaning streak. Wednesday it was Michael Dell's turn.

At the official opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Putin, now Russian Prime Minister, delivered a 40-minute speech touching on everything from why the dollar should not be the sole reserve currency to how the world needed to enter into a smart energy partnership with Russia. Then it was time for questions. First up: Dell. He praised Russia's technical and scientific prowess, and then asked: "How can we help" you to expand IT in Russia.

Big mistake. Russia has been allergic to offers of aid from the West ever since hundreds of overpaid consultants arrived in Moscow after the collapse of Communism, in 1991, and proceeded to hand out an array of advice that proved, at times, useless or dangerous.

Putin's withering reply to Dell: "We don't need help. We are not invalids. We don't have limited mental capacity." The slapdown took many of the people in the audience by surprise. Putin then went on to outline some of the steps the Russian government has taken to wire up the country, including remote villages in Siberia. And, in a final dig at Dell, he talked about how Russian scientists were rightly respected not for their hardware, but for their software. The implication: Any old fool can build a PC outfit.

Peter Gumbel, Putin-Dell slapdown at Davos, Jan. 28, 2009, http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/28/news/companies/dell.davos.fortune/index.htm.

[t0mat0]

But only a few can build and maintain a successful profitable one...

[GSMiller]

It's a shame Bill Gates wasn't there to talk about the piracy rates of Microsoft's software in Russia.

[gkarris]

Good for Putin...

BTW, I, a shareholder, am waiting for Apple to give me my money back... :eek:

[Aea]

Laughable. Of course Putin is a staunch support of the Russian > * viewpoint, if only reality wasn't a bitter slap in the face to that belief.

It's a global economy, and Russia is not in a position to compete intellectually, nor will be for a long time until they get their **** together and start realizing that they need to mesh to remain relevant.

[Axemantitan]

At the official opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Putin, now Russian Prime Minister, delivered a 40-minute speech touching on everything from why the dollar should not be the sole reserve currency to how the world needed to enter into a smart energy partnership with Russia. Then it was time for questions. First up: Dell. He praised Russia's technical and scientific prowess, and then asked: "How can we help" you to expand IT in Russia.

Putin's withering reply to Dell: "We don't need help. We are not invalids. We don't have limited mental capacity." The slapdown took many of the people in the audience by surprise. Putin then went on to outline some of the steps the Russian government has taken to wire up the country, including remote villages in Siberia. And, in a final dig at Dell, he talked about how Russian scientists were rightly respected not for their hardware, but for their software. The implication: Any old fool can build a PC outfit.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/28/news/companies/dell.davos.fortune/index.htm

[dvdhsu]

Hmmm... that's quite interesting.
and funny too.:D
Perhaps they don't even have 802.11g there.
They've evolved to N a long time ago...
And Fiber Optics everywhere too.:D

[Axemantitan]

Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMR1BZ9aYM8

[sir Mudkip]

haha. From Russia with love.

[redAPPLE]

i wonder how would steve jobs re-phrase that question, without getting bitchslapped.

[Sesshi]

That would have been interesting.

It's hard to tell what Russia's trying to do in terms of IT education as a coordinated effort. There is movement afoot on a national distro, but many are saying they're simply using it as a gambit for a larger amnesty on Microsoft products.

[j/k/Andy]

Seems more revealing about Putin then Mr. Dell

[edesignuk]

Hysterical, good for him.

[schizoidwoman]

"...took many of the people in the audience by surprise".

I bet you could've heard a pin drop; it sounds a lot more entertaining than most of the forums we have to attend!

[iBlue]

Why is bitchslaps edited out of the title? :confused:


Really though, when has Russia ever been receptive to patronization? Tsk tsk, Mr Dell. The whole "you don't offer assistance to russia, russia offers to allow your assistance." thing, or something.

[Sesshi]

To those being critical of Mr. Putin and Russian technological prowess. I would just like to point out that if it wasn't for good old Proton rockets and Soyuz and Progress capsules, there would be no ISS in the sky. It should also be pointed out, that old Sovjet computer technology was quite competitive during the cold war and at many instances more secure that the stuff used in the "free" world. It also should be pointed out, that the Russians were the first to deliver a hydrogen bomb that was actually of military value (and not a small house). The Russians for the most part, also had superior, because more reliable military technology throughout the cold war. In current times, one should remember that quite a few things we value and treasure are now owned by Russian business men.

It should also be pointed out that Russia with a relatively low cost of labor structure and comparatively well educated working class has a better shot at recovering from the current economic crisis that the US with its 15% and shrinking industrial worker employment rate, lousy standards of education among the working class and major cost, quality and productivity problems. But this is a topic for a different discussion.

That all being said, I commend Mr. Putin for not wanting to become dependent on foreign technology.

As for Mr. Jobs, I doubt he would have even asked that type of question. That is the difference between selling a luxury car and a Jugo. The customer comes to you.
Cheers,

Ahmed

True. Apple and Communist Russia have more in common than Dell. You had one way to do things, and everyone involved had to believe in it with the exception of those running the show, it was frequently glorified in shiny metal, you had to queue for an unreasonable time to get things fixed, and no-one inside commented on the fact that under the facade it was a sham held up by propaganda ;)

Nice Brezhnev-tinted glasses. They're worth quite a lot these days - you should hang onto it :D

[SactoGuy18]

The Russians are excellent writers of software.

Indeed, a lot of the world's commercial software are written by Russians or Russian ex-patriates working in the West. (Unfortunately, so is a lot of the Windows malware out there--mind you, given how easy it is to write Windows malware they must be done by a small group of Russians with just a tad too much time on their hands. :rolleyes: )

[Abstract]

First up: Dell. He praised Russia's technical and scientific prowess, and then asked: "How can we help you to expand IT in Russia."

Perhaps there was miscommunication on Putin's part. After all, English isn't his first language, and while he may understand the words, he may have misinterpreted the tone.

When Michael Dell asked Putin that question, he was clearly trying to get a new customer (all of Russia) at this economic summit. After all, Dell sells all the hardware necessary for developing a modern IT infrastructure, and they do have some expertise in this field, so may as well stick your neck out and shamelessly advertise your wares at an economic summit.

However, Putin may have interpreted it to mean that Dell didn't think Russia was capable of developing their own IT infrastructure alone.

I wouldn't interpret it this way, but if you speak a foreign language, it's hard to interpret these things.


The other possibility: Putin is just a fierce little man who takes down siberian tigers and saves TV crews when he has time.

[thecritix]

I heard that the reason Putin was so blunt was because Michael Dell suggested shutting down Russia and giving it back to the people..

[pilotError]

To those being critical of Mr. Putin and Russian technological prowess. I would just like to point out that if it wasn't for good old Proton rockets and Soyuz and Progress capsules, there would be no ISS in the sky. It should also be pointed out, that old Sovjet computer technology was quite competitive during the cold war and at many instances more secure that the stuff used in the "free" world.

You have a point on the rockets, but most of the Russian technology was outright copied from other countries. Seriously, their computers were based on PDP's that were redirected using shell corps into Russia and then copied. I have a guy who sits next to me that used to work on them.

It also should be pointed out, that the Russians were the first to deliver a hydrogen bomb that was actually of military value (and not a small house). The Russians for the most part, also had superior, because more reliable military technology throughout the cold war. In current times, one should remember that quite a few things we value and treasure are now owned by Russian business men.

The Russians had some of the finest engineers around. Unfortunately they came from Germany when Hitler was finally removed from power. The other scientests ended up in the U.S. working on Rockets and Nuclear bombs.

I'm not knocking Russian know how, but you are clearly giving them too much credit.

That all being said, I commend Mr. Putin for not wanting to become dependent on foreign technology.

Well China has now taken their technology aquisitioning prowess. It's cheaper to copy/steal than to create.


That is the difference between selling a luxury car and a Jugo. The customer comes to you.

That and the fact that the U.S. blew up the Yugo factory during the Clinton era.

You know what the Yugo warranty is?

Yugo ******* Yourself!

[keekl]

http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/politicial-pictures-never-send-a-human.jpg

[carlgo]

So, Putin is talking about heavy geo-political stuff, reaffirming his powerful country's importance to the world, when a computer salesman, who somehow got his got inside the door, says his products could turn that country around.

Dell just might have not read the room right, you think?

[Consultant]

But only a few can build and maintain a successful profitable one... without throwing opponents in jail or using other anti-competitive methods.

Here, fixed it for you.

[Axemantitan]

The Russians are excellent writers of software.

Indeed, a lot of the world's commercial software are written by Russians or Russian ex-patriates working in the West. (Unfortunately, so is a lot of the Windows malware out there--mind you, given how easy it is to write Windows malware they must be done by a small group of Russians with just a tad too much time on their hands. :rolleyes: )

That's true. The basis for the handwriting-recognition software in the Newton was created by a Russian.

http://lowendmac.com/orchard/06/1002.html

[surferfromuk]

That's true. The basis for the handwriting-recognition software in the Newton was created by a Russian.

http://lowendmac.com/orchard/06/1002.html

interesting article - kind of explains why Tim Cook now runs the operational logistics of Apple...

[IJ Reilly]

Vladimir Putin vs Michael Dell. Who do you root for?

Can I have another choice, please?

[arkitect]

Vladimir Putin vs Michael Dell. Who do you root for?

Can I have another choice, please?

Hell, Vlad's hot. I'll root err… sorry… for him anytime.
:p

[Lord Blackadder]

I find Putin's evil-genius approach to politics to be entertaining, frightening, and quintessentially Russian.

Michael Dell is just a businessman, not a tech guru. His only achievement is making obscene amounts of money. He can't even help me, much less Russia.

[IJ Reilly]

I find Putin's evil-genius approach to politics to be entertaining, frightening, and quintessentially Russian.

Michael Dell is just a businessman, not a tech guru. His only achievement is making obscene amounts of money. He can't even help me, much less Russia.

Putin is a character from James Bond movie. Dell is like, nobody in particular.

[Lord Blackadder]

A cunning businessman nobody who has been kicked onto a pedestal.

[IJ Reilly]

A cunning businessman nobody who has been kicked onto a pedestal.

It's a pretty low pedestal. I can't recall the source of this quote, but someone once said that if you make enough money, people will line up to call you a genius.

Edit: Found it.

Make money and the whole world will conspire to call you a gentleman.
-George Bernard Shaw

[Lord Blackadder]

It's true. Wealth brings fame and accolades, deserved or otherwise.

[skunk]

In the interests of accuracy, it should perhaps be noted that Putin did not say: "We don't have limited mental capacity", but simply "we don't have limited capacity". The "mental" was inserted by somebody with too much imagination.

[Sesshi]

In the interests of accuracy, it should perhaps be noted that Putin did not say: "We don't have limited mental capacity", but simply "we don't have limited capacity". The "mental" was inserted by somebody with too much imagination.

Who was undoubtedly drafting it on a Mac.

[Lord Blackadder]

Had Dell said such a thing, I think Putin would have kicked his butt. He knows martial arts.

[IJ Reilly]

Had Dell said such a thing, I think Putin would have kicked his butt. He knows martial arts.

He obviously didn't go too far over the line, or Putin would have had him poisoned or shot in the head. Either way, I think I'd catch the next flight out.

[Lord Blackadder]

That radioactive poising could take a while to do it's thing...he's not out of the woods yet!

[IJ Reilly]

Or maybe he was shot in the head but didn't notice.

(I apologize in advance for that remark.)

[skunk]

(I apologize in advance for that remark.)Too late.

[jodelli]

The Russians have usually found a way to get things done even if it takes a couple of tries. And they historically tend to go with simple and sturdy design wise albeit not sturdy enough in the nuclear field.

As has been pointed out they have consistent launch capability for low Earth orbit even though the hardware is derived from 1960s designs. Hey, it works.

When they got wind of the SR 71 Blackbird they designed the Mig 25 to intercept it. Although not quite as fast (? actually the 71 top speed was classified) it beat any other front line military aircraft in top end. Not having the alloys to work with they were made largely of stainless steel, which was heat resistant but heavy. So the engines were huge and the range was short.

But let's face it, networking is not rocket science.

edit: Mig 25s were made mostly of a corrosion resistant nickel alloy with a similar chromium content to stainless steel.

[SactoGuy18]

The Russians have usually found a way to get things done even if it takes a couple of tries. And they historically tend to go with simple and sturdy design wise albeit not sturdy enough in the nuclear field.

When they got wind of the SR 71 Blackbird they designed the Mig 25 to intercept it. Although not quite as fast (? actually the 71 top speed was classified) it beat any other front line military aircraft in top end. Not having the alloys to work with they were made largely of stainless steel, which was heat resistant but heavy. So the engines were huge and the range was short.


Surprisingly, thanks to the need to build a rocket big enough to carry the then-very large nuclear warheads the Russians possessed, the result was the R-7 rocket, which was a gigantic rocket by 1957 standards and was technically an amazing achievement, given it was much bigger than the Atlas rocket then in development at the same time.

Actually, the MiG-25 was designed to intercept the then-planned North American B-70 Valkyrie bomber, so a plane that could cruise over Mach 2 and short-dash to Mach 3 was mandatory. That's why the Mikoyan OKB went to using the metals you mentioned for the plane, since it had to resist the heating effects of sustained Mach 2+ operations. Interestingly, the MiG-25 was better served as a high-speed high-altitude reconnaissance plane, where the Russians would fly them along the border of their own country at cruising at Mach 2.5 and 65,000 feet to see military installations along their own borders. The Syrian Air Force also used these recon MiG-25 versions, but alas, they flew them deep into Israeli territory and a small number were shot down by Israeli F-15's.

But getting back on topic, you see a lot of Russian influences in both MacOS X and Windows, given that Russians and Russian ex-patriates living in the USA have contributed a lot to these operating systems (I believe the Russians have contributed a lot to Linux, too).

[Dont Hurt Me]

What folks forget is though the face of the system has changed in Russia it is still ran by a bunch of communists.
Putin is a communist.

Same goes for China.

[Lord Blackadder]

What folks forget is though the face of the system has changed in Russia it is still ran by a bunch of communists.

Soviets, really. They aren't the same as communists from a political science perspective. Putin isn't any more of a communist than Uncle Joe Stalin was.

[Peterkro]

Soviets, really. They aren't the same as communists from a political science perspective. Putin isn't any more of a communist than Uncle Joe Stalin was.

Not Soviets either,the Soviets as a political force only operated for a few years after the revolution. In a technical sense they'd be authoritarian state capitalists.

[Saladinos]

It's so 20th century. In a way, the Russian and Chinese regimes are more honest that those in the Western hemisphere.

Do you people honestly think we live in a "democratic" "free market" society?

In order to succeed in politics, you need money, which for the most part is supplied by the corporate elite of the country in question. Hence, other than some public posturing, no real effort is made to curtail any of their excesses (and I do throw Obama into it, until he actually does something about said excesses other than public posturing, even though I like the guy).

And look at the corporations. Their leadership for the most part recruits itself from a select group of individuals and board oversight is a joke. The top management of one company will sit on the board of another and vice versa, of course they all will make sure that nobody gets scrutinized too hard for their conduct, and getting ousted as CEO isn't so bad either. A golden parachute will come your way, and within a short period of time you will find another company where you can extract undeserved riches from.

But by all means, do continue to live in the dream world, where you fantasize that your vote counts and you are equal among your peers.

Cheers,

Ahmed

Please tell me you're not serious.

And BTW, Dell is like Lex Luthor in the old Superman films.

[chedda]

Dead serious actually. The "Free Market" and "Democracy" are a scam to ***** the average citizen up the behind, just like every other political system in our history.
Cheers,

Ahmed

I'm with Ahmed on this one democracy means you get a choice between 2 gimps every 4 years that's it the rest is an illusion. I have always never voted i would love to see a zero turn out one day !
I'm down with the royals they built this world including Russia.

[jodelli]

Actually, the MiG-25 was designed to intercept the then-planned North American B-70 Valkyrie bomber,
.
And the Lockheed A-12 and what became the SR-71. Not that it matters but the B-70 was canceled before any production Mig 25s were built, even though it had been a stimulus.

Yeah, it is ironic that the Soviet lag in nuclear warhead reduction technology led to their having to build huge rockets that had an easy time lifting Sputnik 1.

Russians shouldn't have any problem in the IT end of things anyway.