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MacBytes
Jan 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Apple Software
Link: iPhone App Piracy (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20090129004058)
Description:: Some kids just want it all for free and they want it all yesterday and they still want to get paid the big bucks when they get a day job - go figure.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

iParis
Jan 28, 2009, 11:55 PM
It was bound to happen eventually.
Although, a couple of my friends have been doing this for awhile, I'm surprised this is my first time seeing something about it on the internet. Isn't the iPhone Dev team part to blame?

Eric5h5
Jan 29, 2009, 12:28 AM
There have been a number of articles about this, actually. Also (from the article): "Before you spend ten dollars on an app, you might want to give it a try. Currently, the App Store offers no options for this." Not true; it's not that uncommon for apps, particularly games, to have demo or "lite" versions.

--Eirc

dissdnt
Jan 29, 2009, 12:28 AM
Did a 4 year old write this article?



For pirate-wannabes, there are Web sites that offer tutorials on how to crack and obtain pirated software, complete with screen shots. You can even go to YouTube and watch videos that show how it's done. This is yet another aspect of iPhone piracy that surprises -- and dismays -- me. Does YouTube monitor its site to check for such videos? If so, does it permit them to remain online after they are discovered? If so, why? These videos are the equivalent of ones that would, for example, explain how to defeat alarm systems
in banks. I assume YouTube would remove such videos. At least I hope they would.

Similarly, do ISPs knowingly permit sites to post cracked software -- especially sites that openly advertise what they do in an apparent attempt to attract traffic?

Welcome to the internet dude.

ISP knowingly permit sites? What ISP is tracking everything a user is doing, is this person insane.

If your so worried, join the NSA or something you communist.

Now, in most free speech debates, I come down on the side of opposing censorship. But cracking iPhone apps and posting them for others to download, or publicly providing step-by-step instructions on how all of this is done, crosses the line for me.

There is no gray area for free speech, either you are for or your against. Posting illegal copies of software is illegal, telling people how to do it is free speech. I can't stand people who say they are for free speech and then say BUT THIS CROSSES THE LINE, there is no line.

wonderbread57
Jan 29, 2009, 12:39 AM
Did a 4 year old write this article?



Welcome to the internet dude.

ISP knowingly permit sites? What ISP is tracking everything a user is doing, is this person insane.

If your so worried, join the NSA or something you communist.



There is no gray area for free speech, either you are for or your against. Posting illegal copies of software is illegal, telling people how to do it is free speech. I can't stand people who say they are for free speech and then say BUT THIS CROSSES THE LINE, there is no line.

More like become a lawyer and join the BSA.

alexbates
Jan 29, 2009, 05:59 AM
This is nothing new. People have been doing this with their jailbroken iPhones and iPods for quite some time now.

PCMacUser
Jan 29, 2009, 07:10 AM
Did a 4 year old write this article?

Welcome to the internet dude.

ISP knowingly permit sites? What ISP is tracking everything a user is doing, is this person insane.

If your so worried, join the NSA or something you communist.

That's quite a rage you've got going on there! Personally I didn't find anything in the article worth getting upset about (especially that upset). The author of the article is the founder of Macfixit (http://www.macfixit.com/), not just some random guy off the street.

And just so you know, ISPs do keep a log of all of the websites their customers visit. They don't check them (this would be unethical), but the logs are there.

There is no gray area for free speech, either you are for or your against.
You don't have to like people who say that there is a grey area for free speech, but you need to respect their right to freely say that there is a grey area. That's free speech. ;)

Posting illegal copies of software is illegal, telling people how to do it is free speech. I can't stand people who say they are for free speech and then say BUT THIS CROSSES THE LINE, there is no line.
Yes yes, but I challenge you to go and stand in front of a police station handing out instruction leaflets on how to steal cars. See what happens to your 'free speech' then.

Jack Flash
Jan 29, 2009, 07:15 AM
Yes yes, but I challenge you to go and stand in front of a police station handing out instruction leaflets on how to steal cars. See what happens to your 'free speech' then.

Nothing. And if something does, sue the bastards. The ALCU is waiting for you.

batchtaster
Jan 29, 2009, 07:28 AM
Yes yes, but I challenge you to go and stand in front of a police station handing out instruction leaflets on how to steal cars. See what happens to your 'free speech' then.

It's the common mistake that talking about something and actually doing it are both covered under the same free speech rules.

If you kill someone, you're not charged under any laws relating to speech, nor can you claim free speech as a defence in the way you could attempt to if you were simply talking about how you were going to kill them. Likewise, if you post instructions on how to break the law and steal things, you may possibly be able to get away with a free speech defence, but if you use those instructions, you are still just a common thief, not a champion of speech and equality and all those other buzzword things that such people like to toss around to rationalize their theft.

In addition, there are caveats about responsible free speech including inciting, threatening and so forth, which people always like to leave out because it allows them to polarize the discussion. Reality is much less interesting than pretending that you can say anything you want, any time, anywhere.

PCMacUser
Jan 29, 2009, 07:39 AM
In addition, there are caveats about responsible free speech including inciting, threatening and so forth, which people always like to leave out because it allows them to polarize the discussion. Reality is much less interesting than pretending that you can say anything you want, any time, anywhere.

I totally agree. There really is a grey area, isn't there?

I found this quote from a lawyer online (my research wasn't particularly scientific but you get the point)...

While we do have freedom of speech in the U.S., that speech cannot be used to incite or as 'fighting words' for which an illegal act can be contemplated.

wonderbread57
Jan 29, 2009, 07:40 AM
Handing out information is doing something, not speech.

Defamatory remarks meant to create public contempt is called libel, and is not legal.

Lying to officials during a criminal investigations is speech, and is not legal.

Telling a hit man to kill someone is speech, and is tantamount to murder.

Whenever you effect dire consequences weather directly or through speech, there's going to be legal repercussions for you.

PCMacUser
Jan 29, 2009, 07:47 AM
Handing out information is doing something, not speech.

So based on your statement, producing and distributing an instructional video on how to steal falls under different laws from free speech. Fair enough.

fleshman03
Jan 29, 2009, 07:51 AM
Did a 4 year old write this article?



ISP knowingly permit sites? What ISP is tracking everything a user is doing, is this person insane.


They have to permit the site. Net Neutrality + Free Speech = Postings Like These. If you don't like what they say; fine. But you need to respect their right to say it.

Information is information is information. It can be used for good or bad. For example - someone can read this article and figure out a new way to stop this method of piracy. Bad - new pirates. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Handing out information is doing something, not speech.

Defamatory remarks meant to create public contempt is called libel, and is not legal.

Lying to officials during a criminal investigations is speech, and is not legal.

Telling a hit man to kill someone is speech, and is tantamount to murder.

Whenever you effect dire consequences weather directly or through speech, there's going to be legal repercussions for you.


1) Defamatory remarks need to be directed at a person. Other things are free game. (I'm not 100% sure about a company.)

2)Lying to officals is perfectly legal. As long as they are not the FBI. You can lie all you want to your local cops. Even the FBI needs to inform you that you cannot lie to them before they can charge you with anything.

3) Telling a man to kill someone is tantamount to murder, you are right. However if I said that I wished someone was killed, I'm fine. Same thing if I told people how to kill someone. I just cannot use a command tone.

4) Not quite so true. Maybe in civil court ... even then it's blurry. A good rule of thumb is that, "your right to wave your hand in the air stops where my nose begins." Don't yell fire in a crowded theater.

Oh and this should be added that actions are speech. Protesting? Flag Burning? Just "speech" has been interpreted to mean "any means of expressing your views."


That's quite a rage you've got going on there! Personally I didn't find anything in the article worth getting upset about (especially that upset). The author of the article is the founder of Macfixit (http://www.macfixit.com/), not just some random guy off the street.

And just so you know, ISPs do keep a log of all of the websites their customers visit. They don't check them (this would be unethical), but the logs are there.

You don't have to like people who say that there is a grey area for free speech, but you need to respect their right to freely say that there is a grey area. That's free speech. ;)


Yes yes, but I challenge you to go and stand in front of a police station handing out instruction leaflets on how to steal cars. See what happens to your 'free speech' then.

Agreed. Nothing to burn the barn over. (I like that expression. I think I just made it up. I'm claiming a copyright to it.) :-D


Some do, not all. And some destroy those records after a given time. (Months - I think it should be a law that all data such as that must be destroyed a given period of non-investigation)

"I disagree whole heartily with what you are saying sir, but I'll fight to the death your right to say it."


No problem. I'd do that. I'd even do it with instructions on how to make a gun or bomb. I won't tell people to do it. In fact, I'd likely tell people not to do it and offer them suggestions on how to spot a bomb maker with the information provided.

I think a few of us should take a look at this video:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE5QsT5tJWs&eurl=http://thepiratesdilemma.com/about-the-book

What do you all think about that clip?

PCMacUser
Jan 29, 2009, 08:21 AM
^^^You need to put a few more QUOTE tags in your post - it looks like I said all of that! :)

Compile 'em all
Jan 29, 2009, 08:35 AM
It was bound to happen eventually.
Although, a couple of my friends have been doing this for awhile, I'm surprised this is my first time seeing something about it on the internet. Isn't the iPhone Dev team part to blame?

do you also blame knife makers for all the stabbings? match makers for all the fires?

Without the dev team you wouldnt have had the appstore nor a native sdk.

fleshman03
Jan 29, 2009, 08:35 AM
^^^You need to put a few more QUOTE tags in your post - it looks like I said all of that! :)

Are you talking about visually or with ideas? Meaning - does it look like one big block quote or do you think I'm reusing your ideas?

PCMacUser
Jan 29, 2009, 08:44 AM
Are you talking about visually or with ideas? Meaning - does it look like one big block quote or do you think I'm reusing your ideas?

Visually - it's all one big block quote. Don't worry, I don't think you're reusing my ideas! :)

do you also blame knife makers for all the stabbings? match makers for all the fires?
Tobacco companies for all the lung cancer? Huh huh? That's a good one eh... ;)

fleshman03
Jan 29, 2009, 08:46 AM
Visually - it's all one big block quote. Don't worry, I don't think you're reusing my ideas! :)

Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out!

1tigerlivejob
Jan 29, 2009, 07:56 PM
I'll just stick to my black berry

piracyHurts
Feb 9, 2009, 11:18 AM
Just released a game.. A very well done one with a lot invested and a LOT of time....

+300 sales in 4 days...
+3500 uniquely identified phones = theifs...

That will crush me... with the bandwith consumption alone not to mention not being worth my time invested......

xUKHCx
Feb 9, 2009, 11:23 AM
+300 sales in 4 days...
+3500 uniquely identified phones = theifs...


~8% legitimate users :eek::eek:

Sorry to hear, that is quite shocking.

Is your application expensive in terms of iPhone applications?

Knowlege Bomb
Feb 9, 2009, 11:35 AM
Just released a game.. A very well done one with a lot invested and a LOT of time....

+300 sales in 4 days...
+3500 uniquely identified phones = theifs...

That will crush me... with the bandwith consumption alone not to mention not being worth my time invested......

Insane...

piracyHurts
Feb 10, 2009, 12:14 AM
No not at all.. and shocking yes.. depressing yes... Those numbers are the worst I have ever seen in any piracy venue (Spent many years in the AAA games industry). I had to double check my data and wipe my eyes..

4.99 for about three months of day and late night labor. Not to bad at all. A bad movie at blockbuster cost you more and has far far less entertainment value. And at these profit levels as opposed to piracy digging ditches 8 hours a day as opposed to 12-16 hour days making apps for less monety... digging sounds rather appealing now...at least I get a workout..

Sadly, we hear nothing from apple. If they would but put a 10 person staff or less towards hunting and shutting down sites they really could put a HUGE dent in this. The money I am losing alone could pay a couple of their salaries. If I see you guys at the soup line I will grab a biscuit for you all! =)

P.S. I have every mode out there demonstrating what my app is like from movies to websites...

Funny what should I do with all these Device identifiers..I wish apple wanted them...

/rant

ahh I feel better now...

MacGnG
Feb 10, 2009, 01:21 AM
"Welcome to the internet dude." --- gotta agree.

Jack Flash
Feb 10, 2009, 07:36 AM
No not at all.. and shocking yes.. depressing yes... Those numbers are the worst I have ever seen in any piracy venue (Spent many years in the AAA games industry). I had to double check my data and wipe my eyes..

4.99 for about three months of day and late night labor. Not to bad at all. A bad movie at blockbuster cost you more and has far far less entertainment value. And at these profit levels as opposed to piracy digging ditches 8 hours a day as opposed to 12-16 hour days making apps for less monety... digging sounds rather appealing now...at least I get a workout..

Sadly, we hear nothing from apple. If they would but put a 10 person staff or less towards hunting and shutting down sites they really could put a HUGE dent in this. The money I am losing alone could pay a couple of their salaries. If I see you guys at the soup line I will grab a biscuit for you all! =)

P.S. I have every mode out there demonstrating what my app is like from movies to websites...

Funny what should I do with all these Device identifiers..I wish apple wanted them...

/rant

ahh I feel better now...

Curious, what is your app?

Sehnsucht
Feb 10, 2009, 08:10 AM
I am so ********* SICK of being teased for paying for my apps!!! :mad: When I'm in a group and we all have our iPhones/iPod touches out, the douchebags see that I have several pages of apps ranging from $5 to $20 each, and that I've spent probably $200 on my apps total. "Oh my God, did you actually pay for all those? You're an idiot!" "Dude, you can like, totally go to this one site and like, get all that ****** for free." :mad:

I swear to God...:mad:

My app inventory:
BeatMaker - $19.99
BeejiveIM - $15.99
X-Plane Extreme - $9.99
SimCity - $9.99
tChess Pro - $7.99
Air Sharing - $5.99 (?)

and many more. All honest purchases.