PDA

View Full Version : New Newton - Not From Apple?


MacRumors
Mar 16, 2004, 02:17 PM
ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes12.html) followup on the earlier hints (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040312025047.shtml) of a Newton revival.

According to statements from Stone Multimedia (http://www.stonemultimedia.com/), while Apple is not interested in relaunching the Newton, a 3rd party is reportedly in negotiations with Apple to acquire and relaunch the Newton platform.

At the time of the Newton's demise, Apple had already spun the Newton division into a subsidiary, but after Jobs' return, the entire division was reabsorbed into Apple and discontinued.

AmigoMac
Mar 16, 2004, 02:20 PM
Nooooooo! I want it from apple! ... :mad: ;)

Photorun
Mar 16, 2004, 02:22 PM
Intriguing, very intriguing. I wonder what OS it'd run? :confused:

arn
Mar 16, 2004, 02:25 PM
Intriguing, very intriguing. I wonder what OS it'd run? :confused:

Newton OS

arn

0 and A ai
Mar 16, 2004, 02:26 PM
I wonder who is behind this. I think some mac friendly people with alot of money.

I guess they see a niche here they can fill. Very interesting nevertheless.

idkew
Mar 16, 2004, 02:27 PM
Unless the new Newton is more than a PDA, it will fail. It is 100% necessary that it be small, have cell phone capabilities, and the ability to expand and add GPS, WiFi...

I would love to see a Newton with tomorrow's technology today, once again.

kainjow
Mar 16, 2004, 02:31 PM
I'd buy one. All the other PDA's for Mac suck. I want a PDA that works just as smooth with my computer as my iPod does.

Phatpat
Mar 16, 2004, 02:33 PM
And its 100% necessary for the iPod mini to cost less than $200, or it will fail. Oh wait....

Photorun
Mar 16, 2004, 02:33 PM
Newton OS

arn

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of would it be OS X-ish.

gandalf55
Mar 16, 2004, 02:36 PM
:D I would love a Newton reborn as long as it still used the data soup paradigm & used an enhanced Newton OS.

Jerry Spoon
Mar 16, 2004, 02:39 PM
I'm all for this. Let's see what enhancements they come up with and if it's a success that will be great...of course Apple will be pissed. :rolleyes:

chubad
Mar 16, 2004, 02:48 PM
I'm all for this. Let's see what enhancements they come up with and if it's a success that will be great...of course Apple will be pissed. :rolleyes:

Why would Apple be pissed if it is a success? I'm sure they would get $$ for the licensing. :confused:

Tommy Wasabi
Mar 16, 2004, 02:52 PM
I still have my MP2001 (and a 2000 and 110 and 130).

The last MP was the best - add some new functionality (bluetooth, wi-fi) and it would beat any iPaq on the planet.

But alas, someone will screw it up and it will end up in the bit bucket.

If only Apple would covert one of it's Powerbooks to be a Tablet - THEN I WOULD BE IN HEAVEN.

spinko
Mar 16, 2004, 02:52 PM
Intriguing, very intriguing. I wonder what OS it'd run? :confused:

A scaled-down version of MacOSX with a fast processor, an ATI graphic chip and lots of mem

:rolleyes:

Mr.Hey
Mar 16, 2004, 02:52 PM
It has to be Woz and his company WOZ

varmit
Mar 16, 2004, 02:53 PM
Getting someone else to take the bill, but the Apple logo still gets slapped on it. Just the Third party has to do all the work. Split profits since Apple gives all the stuff about Newton to third party and will be the name brand for it and marketer, while third party get a good amount of profit and get to see all the info and code from old newton or anything that Apple has done in the PDA area so they can make the new Newton. If it fails, then Apple has nothing to worry about, if it succeeds, both parties make some money.

Tommy Wasabi
Mar 16, 2004, 03:03 PM
The cap trick? What's that? (Sorry - been living under a rock since superbowl sunday - something about a boob flashing that made me want to hide)

Tulse
Mar 16, 2004, 03:06 PM
I don't know if this is actually true, but I recall hearing a year or so ago that, in an interview, an exec had said that Apple couldn't locate the hard drive that had the source code for the Newton OS. This may be completely fabricated, though -- has anyone else heard a similar story?

(To be honest, I don't know that such a loss would be that critical, as I imagine a revived Newton would be a ground-up rewrite.)

pcp_ip
Mar 16, 2004, 03:09 PM
This is not going to happen. It was attempted after the Newton was killed. In 1998 (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0COW/1998_April_9/20505895/p1/article.jhtml) Planet Computing as well as 2 other companies seperately approached Steve Jobs to purchase the Newton technology. Apple had nothing to sell. They had lost all the assets of Newton Division. Apple needed cash back then. If it was do-able sale, Steve would have dumped the Newton.

By '98 Apple had lost most of the Newton developers to Palm. The brain drain had left any remaining Newton projects in such disarray that there was little comprehensible code or hardware that could be resold. All of this is well documented somewhere on Newt Users Groups. Newton users tried hard to get anything out of Apple to allow them to continue to develop for their Newtons.

Today there's NO Newton developers left at Apple. No one there would know how to piece together the remaining Newton Projects.

This sale will never happen.

As a LONG time newton user- there was nothing like it. Long before palm/CE based handhelds had internet access Newtons could surf the web with javascript and frames support. Current developers have it isyncing, playing mp3s and using wi-fi. 7 years later and it's still a killer handheld. Show me a 7 year-old palm dog that can do new tricks, let alone a 2 year-old palm.

AngryAngel
Mar 16, 2004, 03:12 PM
Why would someone wanting to resurrect the Netwon ask Stone, a multimedia/presentations company to ask people's opinions of the idea? It makes no sense, apart from if Stone wanted to increase their hits.

Why would Woz want anything to do with someone else's idea- he had nothing to do with the Newton? However, I've done some Googling, and it seems Woz did like the Newton:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=460

Frisco
Mar 16, 2004, 03:19 PM
It's always a good thing when 3rd parties develop for the Mac. Hey Apple can't do it alone. I always see new gadgets coming out that are PC only. If Apple wants to get back into the game it is key that 3rd parties develop for the Mac. I would love to one day walk into a CompUSA and see items on the shelf that say Mac only ;)

0 and A ai
Mar 16, 2004, 03:24 PM
I'm all for this. Let's see what enhancements they come up with and if it's a success that will be great...of course Apple will be pissed. :rolleyes:

I'm sure if they show signs of being succesful apple will buy them.
Who knows this might be there plan.

0 and A ai
Mar 16, 2004, 03:26 PM
This is not going to happen. It was attempted after the Newton was killed. In 1998 (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0COW/1998_April_9/20505895/p1/article.jhtml) Planet Computing as well as 2 other companies seperately approached Steve Jobs to purchase the Newton technology. Apple had nothing to sell. They had lost all the assets of Newton Division. Apple needed cash back then. If it was do-able sale, Steve would have dumped the Newton.



Maybe jobs saw potential and decided to keep it to revive it one day if necessary looks like so far hes decided no. looksl ike its gonna be that way so apple might sell it.

CaptainScarlet
Mar 16, 2004, 03:36 PM
Beside the device coming from Apple, I really can't see why anyone would want Apple to invest time and money into a new Newton device.

Wouldn't you want Apple to spend time on making a better computer or more software???

Or improve the battery life on an iPod??


Or how about the ultimate quesiton??? Why hasn't Apple created any KILLER GAMES?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That's what I want to know....




CS.....

pcp_ip
Mar 16, 2004, 03:36 PM
Maybe jobs saw potential and decided to keep it to revive it one day if necessary looks like so far hes decided no. looksl ike its gonna be that way so apple might sell it.

Jobs killed the Newton because it was a pepsi kid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sculley) project. The technology is too old now. They'd need major development to add color and rebuild the OS to run on faster chips.

The only piece of the Newton pie that would be worth anything today is the handwriting engine- and Apple has rolled that into OSX (http://homepage.mac.com/larryy/larryy/ANHR.html)

banzaiman
Mar 16, 2004, 03:46 PM
...Eat up Martha.

JulesK
Mar 16, 2004, 04:02 PM
I still have my MP2001 (and a 2000 and 110 and 130).

Nice to know that I wasn't the only sucker to buy just about every model of the Newton. Except I bought the 120, 130 and 2000, which I upgraded to a 2100, just in time for Apple to pull the plug. That pretty much put me off Apple until I bought an iMac in September 2001, and then my 12" PB 1GHz in October 2003. Now I'm in love with Apple again.

Who knows - maybe the Newton rumor represents some kind of Buddhist cycle-thing: First you love Apple, then you hate Apple, then you love Apple...

Bear
Mar 16, 2004, 04:26 PM
Take the Newton, add in a harddrive, 802.11b, bluetooth, iPod type music ability. Also, a web browser is important these days.

Anyway, start iwth that, update the processor and pick an OS. (Updated Newton OS or a scaled down OS X, I don't care which.)

Should it also be a cell phone? Probably not for various reasons. It should however with bluetooth be able to sync the phone database and use the cell phone for a dialup connection.

DStaal
Mar 16, 2004, 04:26 PM
If only Apple would covert one of it's Powerbooks to be a Tablet - THEN I WOULD BE IN HEAVEN.

Hmm. I can see that... Put in a version of OS X with Inkwell launching standard, and build in Bluetooth as standard. Have a cover that flips open and stands it upright. Runs all current apps already, has handwriting built in. And you can use a keyboard without even plugging anything in.

Make it a little smaller than a 12' iBook, and Apple's got a winner.

MrMacMan
Mar 16, 2004, 04:30 PM
It has to be Woz and his company WOZ

The Wheels of Zeus are behind this?

I don't think so...

It would be hightly improbable...

Look all of the technology... resources... info...

Its all gone...

What as Apple to Sell besides the name and the very basic OS? :confused:

ITR 81
Mar 16, 2004, 04:48 PM
The Wheels of Zeus are behind this?

I don't think so...

It would be hightly improbable...

Look all of the technology... resources... info...

Its all gone...

What as Apple to Sell besides the name and the very basic OS? :confused:

Patents, name and connection with Apple.

TubaMuffins
Mar 16, 2004, 04:59 PM
you're all wrong. there is no way that any of us can say what Apple is going to do. These past few years all they've done is surprise us with great hardware and software, a few rumors floated around before releases but Apple is hard to predict. They know what they are doing and all we can do is speculate and wait.

EDIT: Haha! "eat up martha"

The Expatriate
Mar 16, 2004, 05:10 PM
If the iPod (which with 40Gb of space available is pretty mental!) had a face lift, say a colour screen comparable with - well a sony mobile phone (Apple/Sony rumors?), and a plug in keyboard so that when you're out jogging it's just an iPod but when you're at home you can update your contacts), and more software architecture to run applications (ie - QT mpg4 (as on mobile phones), read pdfs and other formats (as on some mobile phones), store files as an external HD and browse the internet in a Safari like manner (well Apple already has it's own browser - why not put a slim version into hand-helds?) - you'd have something that does pretty much what is needed for the youth market without going the whole hog and use it as a springboard to launch something late next year. Or maybe even connect the new Newton/iPod (iNewt) to an external display - maybe even use it as a PVR with all that disk space (hmmm). Now that would be interesting, don't you think?

LimeiBook86
Mar 16, 2004, 05:18 PM
I think I could see this happening. Palm is turning it's back on the Mac and Apple knows what people like, look at the iPod series. For a new Newton like device to be successful in today's world it would have to have the following:

#1) Mac OS X or Newton like Operating system
#2) Color Screen with Handwriting Recondition
#3) Wi-Fi and Bluetooth for communication and file transfers
#4) iChat AV like program for use with #3 and #5
#5) Cell phone like compatibility
#6) Word processing
#7) Simple/Fun Games
#8) Multimedia compatibility for Video and Audio
#9) Optional mini-camera for video/audio used with #4 or alone
#10) A good size hard disk drive for storage (1-4 GB)

I don't think IrDA would be needed ,but I guess it could be optional, maybe a small expansion slot can be used with a camera or IRDA card. USB maybe? Or Bluetooth (although bluetooth is rather slow) A high speed port should be on the device also, maybe FireWire or USB 2.0. Also the device should be easily upgradable. It would be very cool if you could watch videos or listen to music on the device also.

This is what I would like to see in a Newton like device. This would be very cool...and very very expensive
:rolleyes: :p :D

Jimong5
Mar 16, 2004, 06:03 PM
There IS going to be a new newton... you know why?

Because I just bought a brand new Palm Zire 71 :p

wHo_tHe
Mar 16, 2004, 06:04 PM
Take the Newton, add in a harddrive, 802.11b, bluetooth, iPod type music ability. Also, a web browser is important these days.

Anyway, start iwth that, update the processor and pick an OS. (Updated Newton OS or a scaled down OS X, I don't care which.)

Should it also be a cell phone? Probably not for various reasons. It should however with bluetooth be able to sync the phone database and use the cell phone for a dialup connection.
Owners of the final Newton MessagePad, the 2100, can right now:


WiFi/802.11b (http://www.ff.iij4u.or.jp/~ngc/eng/newtwave.htm)
Bluetooth (http://www.40hz.org/Blunt/)
MP3 streaming/storage/playback (http://www.40hz.org/MADNewton/)
Web browsing Courier (http://www.40hz.org/Courier/) | Newtscape (http://home.comcast.net/~saweyer/newton/newtscape.htm)
AIM (http://www.sealiecomputing.com/NewtChat/) & Jabber (http://www.allaboutjake.com/newton/newtonIM.htm) instant messaging
NES emulation (http://home.earthlink.net/~eagix/) :)
VNC (server & client) (http://newted.dyndns.org/users/weyer/newton/vnc.htm)
IMAP mail (http://www.newtonmail.dsl.pipex.com/)
iCal/Address book syncing (http://www.everchanging.com/newton/)
ATA memory card support (512mb - 1gb flash storage) (http://www.kallisys.com/newton/ata/?lg=en)

All of these programs/utilities are the result of talented and dedicated private developers. Are these programs perfect? No. Does the OS limit what can be done? Yes. But just think... If the Newton can do this based on an OS frozen in 1998 (not to mention old hardware and processors), imagine what could be done if the OS had continued to be modernized and improved. I do all the time... :)

iLilana
Mar 16, 2004, 06:13 PM
It has to be Woz and his company WOZ

The WOZ device is supposed to be a mid range (city wide) wireless locator type device I thought. Possibly subdermal?

My wish is for a Newton with enhanced newton/NExT OS. It would be so awesome... so long as it had a better screen rez than the PDA crap already out there, Phone, wifi, and iSight/iChat compatibility. Even if it used a stripped down G3. and MINIMUM 40 Gb upgradable 2 inch drive. Palm/PocketPC/phone devices are too small for the eyes. Screens are too small. a 3x5 inch screen would be better for color stuff. They just need to keep it thin and light.

Snowy_River
Mar 16, 2004, 06:54 PM
Owners of the final Newton MessagePad, the 2100, can right now:


WiFi/802.11b (http://www.ff.iij4u.or.jp/~ngc/eng/newtwave.htm)
Bluetooth (http://www.40hz.org/Blunt/)
MP3 streaming/storage/playback (http://www.40hz.org/MADNewton/)
Web browsing Courier (http://www.40hz.org/Courier/) | Newtscape (http://home.comcast.net/~saweyer/newton/newtscape.htm)
AIM (http://www.sealiecomputing.com/NewtChat/) & Jabber (http://www.allaboutjake.com/newton/newtonIM.htm) instant messaging
NES emulation (http://home.earthlink.net/~eagix/) :)
VNC (server & client) (http://newted.dyndns.org/users/weyer/newton/vnc.htm)
IMAP mail (http://www.newtonmail.dsl.pipex.com/)
iCal/Address book syncing (http://www.everchanging.com/newton/)
ATA memory card support (512mb - 1gb flash storage) (http://www.kallisys.com/newton/ata/?lg=en)

All of these programs/utilities are the result of talented and dedicated private developers. Are these programs perfect? No. Does the OS limit what can be done? Yes. But just think... If the Newton can do this based on an OS frozen in 1998 (not to mention old hardware and processors), imagine what could be done if the OS had continued to be modernized and improved. I do all the time... :)

Yeah, this is one of the things that, every now and then, makes me want to get a MP2100 from eBay...

I'd love to see an up-to-date version of the Newton released. We can hope...

bensisko
Mar 16, 2004, 07:21 PM
There is one reason, and one reason only that this won't happen. Steve CAN NOT sell Newton, or any other major Apple technology because if someone else buys the technology, and it succeeds, that means trouble for Steve from the board (i.e. "Look how much money Apple could have made!!!").

It won't happen, so don't get too excited.

applekid
Mar 16, 2004, 07:35 PM
Apple is too busy trying to get #1 marketshares in things besides computers now. If Apple releases a Newton, just watch them push it hard and create PC-Compatibility, like they did with the iPod. All of theses devices have been giving profits to Apple and not helping our struggle against PCs.

I want to see more Mac users, not iPod-wielding PC users.

If a Newton is released, make sure it expands the Mac marketshare, not give more pretty devices to consumers. Give us devices that can stay Mac-only Apple. Force the PC users over to our side if they want to use fun devices.

Azuran
Mar 16, 2004, 07:48 PM
Im really sorry to say this even though its not really an Apple product, but it is gonna fail right from the get go

AoWolf
Mar 16, 2004, 08:21 PM
Im really sorry to say this even though its not really an Apple product, but it is gonna fail right from the get go

Why? Obviously there are people who are gonna buy it because it is got an apple logo on it, also if it comes out with OS-X it's some what practical. Although the worry for apple may be getting the ipod and a Newton's role mixed up. They would have to make the newton either hard to listen to music on or more likely price range difference and with ipods already selling at up to $500.....

SubGothius
Mar 16, 2004, 09:13 PM
Intriguing, very intriguing. I wonder what OS it'd run? :confused:Newton OS.I guess I was thinking more along the lines of would it be OS X-ish.If it's not running NewtonOS (or a modernization thereof), then it's not really a "Newton", proper, is it? Not any more than a G5 running Linux (or worse, that X-Box devkit Windows kludge) could really be called a Mac, proper. In each case, the design of the OS, and particularly its GUI, is what makes the machine what it is, and special for being just that (curious how many ppl think of their "OS" as being little more than the visible presentation of the OS's interface, which I guess demonstrates the effectiveness of visual-metaphor-based GUIs!).

I think (hope) those who claim to want Mac OS X in their Newton really only mean they want the user experience of OS X and some modern, essential technologies supported by OS X. IMHO, a revived Newton should run an evolution of NewtonOS (which was designed with portable-computing uses and form factors in mind), rather than a shrunken OS X, proper (which was designed with ever-expanding CPU capacities and display resolutions in mind). I propose that an evolved NewtonOS should retain its basic original technology and character but receive an attractive, Aqua-esque GUI update, visually resembling OS X+Aqua but suitable for use on a modern, high-res but small, color touchscreen (IMHO not much if any larger than a 3x5" index card for the device's entire face), and of course made compatible with modern technologies (USB, FireWire, Airport Extreme/WiFi, Bluetooth, iSync, QuickTime, POP3/IMAP, etc.etc.etc.).

Think about it: would you really want to wait for a Newton running "OS X Lite" to boot up, then have to login, etc.? No, PDAs need to be instant-on, and whilst an iPod-esque mass-storage drive would obviously be a must (and the "user's roaming home folder" idea is intriguing), the device's OS must reside in firmware. For another thing, would you really want to regularly use OS X+Aqua shrunken down to the size of an index card? No, PDAs need an interface tailored to their small resolutions and screen sizes, and whilst it may be possible to use OS X+Aqua shrunken to such a tiny size, and the visual appeal of Aqua is obviously compelling, it's not an ideal direct-fit. The "message" (GUI) must fit the "medium" (screen size/res/depth); a message designed for one medium (OS X+Aqua for large, high-res monitors) should not be used for a completely different medium (small, modest-res PDA screens). A NewtonOS that looks like OS X+Aqua would work just fine, but an actual OS X+Aqua shrunken and crippled to run on a Newton, not so much.

A dock connector (similar to the iPods') would reduce port proliferation and keep the device small while allowing all manner of optional accessories (mic, camera lens, USB keyboard/mouse, DVD drive, larger external screen, etc.) to be attached without having to add bulk by bundling them all into the main device. Of course, iPod and cellphone functionality should be integrated, with onscreen "virtual" controls or voice-command; otherwise, this thing is just another chunk of "digital clutter" to carry around (reducing proliferative clutter is compelling, but adding to it is deterring). The Newton's hallmark "Assist" function could be applied to voice-commands as well as handwriting; e.g., cellphone functions should be almost entirely usable via headphones/mic alone without having to operate controls on the main device (e.g., When you say, "Newton: Call Steve", it dials Steve's number, or say, "Newton: Save number for Dan, 555-1212", it saves that # to internal addybook for Dan, to be iSync'd later, etc.)

Oh, and fer chrissakes, Steve's a smart, shrewd guy who didn't get where he is today, and get Apple and Pixar where they are today, by playing petty political grudge games out of spite, for sheer shiznits and giggles. He didn't suspend the Newton because Sculley was its daddy, nor because the Newton was any kind of "failure" that was getting "beaten" by Palm; rather, Apple was in dire straits and Steve simply had to make the tough decision to axe everything that was not rock-bottom, bare-essential, instantly-profitable and -popular product, and dedicate all resources to those four remaining products alone (iMac, iBook, PowerMac, PowerBook), to get the company healthy again. The Newton, while still promising and growing at the time, wasn't anywhere near as essential for the co's immediate survival as those Big 4 products were, so Steve had its plug pulled and (we can only hope) its assets archived. Simply a tough business decision with Apple in a tough, make-or-break spot, nothing more than that.

IndyGopher
Mar 16, 2004, 10:54 PM
I loved the Newton. I had several... a 100, a 130, and a 2100. Also had an eMate. They were pretty cool, except for the fact that they were HUGE. I am sure that could be whittled down quite a bit, and I think they would sell enough, at the right price point, to be worth doing. I hope they do, but I am not so sure it will happen. Hope so.

Anyway, the notion that it is impossible to do it, is just stupid. Seriously. Where do you people get idiot notions like that? No one is left at Apple that could do Newton.. What a dunderheaded thing to say. It's not hieroglyphics.. we don't need to find some Rosetta stone to figure out how to work one.. People release new software for the damned COLECOVISION for God's sake... There are plenty of folks out there that would drop everything and live in their cars in Apple's parking lot to work on the Newton.

If Apple wants to do it, it could be done. If Apple wants to set up another company to do it, it could be done even quicker.

tntoak
Mar 17, 2004, 12:45 AM
This is not going to happen. It was attempted after the Newton was killed. In 1998 (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0COW/1998_April_9/20505895/p1/article.jhtml) Planet Computing as well as 2 other companies seperately approached Steve Jobs to purchase the Newton technology. Apple had nothing to sell. They had lost all the assets of Newton Division. Apple needed cash back then. If it was do-able sale, Steve would have dumped the Newton.

By '98 Apple had lost most of the Newton developers to Palm. The brain drain had left any remaining Newton projects in such disarray that there was little comprehensible code or hardware that could be resold. All of this is well documented somewhere on Newt Users Groups. Newton users tried hard to get anything out of Apple to allow them to continue to develop for their Newtons.

Today there's NO Newton developers left at Apple. No one there would know how to piece together the remaining Newton Projects.

This sale will never happen.

As a LONG time newton user- there was nothing like it. Long before palm/CE based handhelds had internet access Newtons could surf the web with javascript and frames support. Current developers have it isyncing, playing mp3s and using wi-fi. 7 years later and it's still a killer handheld. Show me a 7 year-old palm dog that can do new tricks, let alone a 2 year-old palm.

Actually, it very well COULD happen, and here's why: Palm announced ab out two weeks ago they were discontinuing Mac support in all of their PDAs. Thatmeans that at the moment, the only PDA manufacturer making PDAs that will run on a Mac is Sony. That means that there is an opening in the market for someone to fill the viod left by Palm's departure from the Mac platform.

Mr. G4
Mar 17, 2004, 12:56 AM
Nooooooo! I want it from apple! ... :mad: ;)

I think Apple sold it for about $500 Million to some company.
That's what the guy who wrote Apple confidentiality 2.0 told Leo Laporte on the Screen Saver.

SiliconAddict
Mar 17, 2004, 06:35 AM
**Gets down on his hands and knees and begs Jobs** Give the OS to someone else if you aren't going to do anything with it.


PLEASE GOD LET THIS BE TRUE!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

JW Pepper
Mar 17, 2004, 06:49 AM
Don't fret. The Treo 600 is the answer. PDA's are a dying product. Smart phones are the future. A few p[eople who will buy anything associated with Apple isn't a business model, the product need to have rea,l prositve benifits and a good market position. The Newton is history.

Now an Apple smart phone as well designed as the iPod... now that would be interesting.

SubGothius
Mar 17, 2004, 07:29 AM
...I propose that an evolved NewtonOS should retain its basic original technology and character but receive an attractive, Aqua-esque GUI update, visually resembling OS X+Aqua but suitable for use on a modern, high-res but small, color touchscreen (IMHO not much if any larger than a 3x5" index card for the device's entire face), and of course made compatible with modern technologies (USB, FireWire, Airport Extreme/WiFi, Bluetooth, iSync, QuickTime, POP3/IMAP, etc.etc.etc.)...

Ah, found what I was looking for earlier: the OQO micro-PC (http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/) (just couldn't remember the name before, kept bumping into ergonomic kitchen utensils instead :)). If you remember this one but haven't checked into it lately... it's improved dramatically and impressively. However, it only runs Windows (or perhaps some Unices as well) :rolleyes:. IMHO, Apple (or whomever) could better this device by making a similar form factor (tho' I'd prefer it a bit thinner yet) work more like a Newton+iPod+cellphone, rather than like a shrunken desktop.

Imagine this kinda thing, but running an instant-on (and power-efficient) firmware OS supporting most current, popular media and Internet/networking standards, and with a GUI designed for mobile/portable touchscreen computing at that small screen size. No waiting for bootups or having to carry it around everywhere "not dead but dreaming" (i.e., booted-but-sleeping :)), and no squinting over the shrunken GUI of a desktop OS; better yet, it replaces your PDA, your cellphone, your iPod, and your casual-use digicam, too (with the optional Bluetooth miniSight accessory :)). Simply keep it in your pocket, purse or holster for most typical music-playing and phone activities (optional Bluetooth mini remote controller also available {I'm thinking here of a micro-miniPod that only acts as a wireless remote--oh say, and this could contain the camera lens, too, nevermind that miniSight idea... Man, I'm full of 'em tonight--or maybe just full of IT...}:D).

Man, a device like that would be, as they say, da shizzle (or then again, maybe that's what I'm full of...). ;)

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 08:02 AM
Actually, it very well COULD happen, and here's why: Palm announced ab out two weeks ago they were discontinuing Mac support in all of their PDAs. Thatmeans that at the moment, the only PDA manufacturer making PDAs that will run on a Mac is Sony. That means that there is an opening in the market for someone to fill the viod left by Palm's departure from the Mac platform.


Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.

Again. This will never happen.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 08:03 AM
I loved the Newton. I had several... a 100, a 130, and a 2100. Also had an eMate. They were pretty cool, except for the fact that they were HUGE. I am sure that could be whittled down quite a bit, and I think they would sell enough, at the right price point, to be worth doing. I hope they do, but I am not so sure it will happen. Hope so.

Anyway, the notion that it is impossible to do it, is just stupid. Seriously. Where do you people get idiot notions like that? No one is left at Apple that could do Newton.. What a dunderheaded thing to say. It's not hieroglyphics.. we don't need to find some Rosetta stone to figure out how to work one.. People release new software for the damned COLECOVISION for God's sake... There are plenty of folks out there that would drop everything and live in their cars in Apple's parking lot to work on the Newton.

If Apple wants to do it, it could be done. If Apple wants to set up another company to do it, it could be done even quicker.

Just keep waiting for that new Newton. We'll see who the "dunderhead" is.

Trimix
Mar 17, 2004, 08:07 AM
Nooooooo! I want it from apple! ... :mad: ;)

Agree, it's not the same if from someone else :(

IndyGopher
Mar 17, 2004, 09:11 AM
Just keep waiting for that new Newton. We'll see who the "dunderhead" is.
Since I made it quite clear that I thought it would be nice, and not something that I expect, I can only conclude that you are illiterate. That makes it easier on both of us, since you now no longer have to struggle through my posts, and I won't have to bother reading yours. Thanks.

Not being a viable product, and being impossible, are radically different states of being. You couldn't very well expect to successfully market used Kleenex, but you would be an idiot to say that you can't PRODUCE used Kleenex.

SiliconAddict
Mar 17, 2004, 09:42 AM
Agree, it's not the same if from someone else :(


Gift horse dude. Gift horse. There is a snowballs chance in hell of Jobs releasing a Newton. The only really viable option is someone else stepping up to the plate. And to be fair there are companies that make hardware that is as good, if not better then Apple's. I for one hope this works out. This could bring a new revolutionary device to the market. I just hope Apple has some input into the revamp of the software. The OS itself needs to be updated. The concepts in the Newton OS are good but also are a bit dated.

16-bit color, 800 x 600, WIFI, BlueTooth, better H/W recognition, OS streamlined to act more like OS X (Only to a point since the interface needs to be tailored to such a small screen and a different input method.)
I would be first in line at the Apple store for one and would drop up to a grand for a new Newton.

http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/09/17/gfx/bsquare_maui_02.jpg

Use your imagination with the above picture.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 10:12 AM
Since I made it quite clear that I thought it would be nice, and not something that I expect, I can only conclude that you are illiterate. That makes it easier on both of us, since you now no longer have to struggle through my posts, and I won't have to bother reading yours. Thanks.

Not being a viable product, and being impossible, are radically different states of being. You couldn't very well expect to successfully market used Kleenex, but you would be an idiot to say that you can't PRODUCE used Kleenex.

:rolleyes:

As Newton was Sculley's 'baby' it's chances of surviving under Jobs, then, were limited. In the summer of '97, Apple announced that the Newton Technology Group was to be spun off as an independent company. Then, weeks later this plan was canned. As a result, many Newton developers, programmers and technicians, defected to other companies - the vast majority going to Palm Computing. They knew that Jobs was not behind the Newton project and decided to jump ship.

With most of the Newton team disbanded, and the knowledge that made the Newton gone with them, Apple had no choice but to shut down the entire project. The Newton technology was lost.


What was salvageable by Apple (data soups -> opendoc, handwriting recognition -> inkwell) was reused. The rest is gone.

So my "literate" friend. A new Newton built by a third party-- based on the original Newton technology-- is IMPOSSIBLE. The key parts are currently in use or have been used by Apple, and will not be licensed out.

A new device built from scratch that is Newton "like" is possible. But as I've said-- if YOU can read-- it's not going to happen.

DStaal
Mar 17, 2004, 10:30 AM
Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.

iSync needs Palm Desktop to be installed to sync to a Palm. It uses Palm's drivers. If Palm had only dropped Palm Desktop (but not the drivers) I would agree with you.

Snowy_River
Mar 17, 2004, 10:58 AM
...The key parts are currently in use or have been used by Apple, and will not be licensed out...

I'm curious to know how you know what will and won't be licensed out. Do you think that if it's a technology that's currently in use that it can't be licensed? If so, then I'm sorry to tell you that you're gravely mistaken. So, by your own admission, there are several technologies that were central to the Newton that could be licensed to a third party (whether or not you think they will be).

:rolleyes:

DJMad
Mar 17, 2004, 11:07 AM
unless there is somthing totally new about this PDA over others I think it is a waste of time and money to devolop a new newton. With isync and my iPod I already have all my contacts and calendar with me. Yeah it would be cool if it had WiFi so you could check your email or get the latest news from the bathroom instead of using your computer, but with my TiBook I can already move around the house and use the internet. Maybe if they incorporated it with a cellphone that would be cool because then you could use the internet anywhere which I might actually use. If they took that a step further and added support for all versions of GSM so you could use it anywhere in the world by just buying a simcard like you can in throughout Europe and Asia they might have a winner.

Snowy_River
Mar 17, 2004, 11:18 AM
Palm abandoned mac software support because isync and ical were better solutions than palm desktop. Palm is not wasting development time and money on supporting rolling their own software. Ical and Isync are default install items on OSX. Why would they compete with that? You palm will be supported fine by apple just like all the insync-able cellphones. Cellphone manufactures never made Macintosh sync tools themselves- and with isync there's no reason for them to start.

Again. This will never happen.

Uh...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but iSync doesn't offer a direct connection to Palm devices. It can only sync to Palm devices through the HotSync conduits. So, unless Apple expands iSync's capabilities to include direct connection with Palm devices, Palm's HotSync is by no means competing with iSync. And, even if Apple does engineer such an expansion of iSync, that would still leave Mac users high and dry when it comes to syncing audio notes, or pictures, etc. And how about loading new Palm apps onto your Palm device? There is no capability in iSync to allow for that...

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 11:21 AM
I'm curious to know how you know what will and won't be licensed out. Do you think that if it's a technology that's currently in use that it can't be licensed? If so, then I'm sorry to tell you that you're gravely mistaken. So, by your own admission, there are several technologies that were central to the Newton that could be licensed to a third party (whether or not you think they will be).

:rolleyes:

AFAIK Inkwell and the Newton handwriting recognition is still superior to the handwriting recognition on Windows tablets. I find it hard to believe Steve will be willing to let third parties play with that technology. The MP2100 was a long way from "Eat Up Martha."

Hope springs eternal. Stone Multimedia's market research should prove there's demand. The fact that people get so worked up every 6 months believing that an iwalk/newton type device is coming from Apple cleary shows there's a market for this imaginary device.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 11:30 AM
Uh...

:rolleyes:

Who knows the next version of isync will bring? Apple is a licensed Palm developer. The licensees just received Cobalt on January 6, 2004. The current Palm Desktop is sitting on the Apple servers for download (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/productivity_tools/palmdesktop.html).

If you're so sure Apple has the ability to make/license a new Newton, surely they have a plan to handle PalmOS6 when it hits the streets.
:rolleyes:

Snowy_River
Mar 17, 2004, 11:46 AM
... I find it hard to believe Steve will be willing to let third parties play with that technology...

Well, that's a big difference from what you originally said. Saying that you find something hard for you to believe is very different than saying that it is impossible.
:rolleyes:

Snowy_River
Mar 17, 2004, 11:53 AM
:rolleyes:

Who knows the next version of isync will bring? Apple is a licensed Palm developer. The licensees just received Cobalt on January 6, 2004. The current Palm Desktop is sitting on the Apple servers for download (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/productivity_tools/palmdesktop.html).

If you're so sure Apple has the ability to make/license a new Newton, surely they have a plan to handle PalmOS6 when it hits the streets.
:rolleyes:

Again, this isn't what you said to begin with!! You said:

Palm abandoned mac software support because isync [was a] better solution...

Now you're saying that iSync could be a competitor to Palm HotSync?

You seem to like to change your argument mid-stride and act as if you've been saying the same thing all along. Now, maybe you're just being forced to say what you really meant at the beginning. If that's the case, I'd encourage you to try to say what you mean from the start...

Cheezy13
Mar 17, 2004, 12:27 PM
The technology is too old now. They'd need major development to add color and rebuild the OS to run on faster chips.

I don't agree with that. I was told that color was already implemented in Newton OS 2.x by then, but they never made it to the screen unfortunately.
It knew how to deal with color. It's just that the screen didn't…

My ideal new Newton would only need a color screen, a bit more power and memory, firewire and bluetooth, new, sleeker, case design and that's it.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 12:34 PM
Well, that's a big difference from what you originally said. Saying that you find something hard for you to believe is very different than saying that it is impossible.
:rolleyes:

YOU WILL NOT SEE A NEW NEWTON.

Clearly you have a problem with that. You believe a new Newton is coming.

Anything is possible. You being a nice well mannered person is possible. However you will never see an Apple Newton or a Newton made by a multimedia production company, let alone anyone else. You may see an Apple tablet or phone- but Newton and it's technology is dead. Sharp PDAs run linux, it's not a far stretch to assume Apple could squeeze the Mach kernel into a device. The iPod has some basic PDA functions.

A device from Apple is POSSIBLE. A device based on the Newton is IMPOSSIBLE.

We disagree with the future of Newton. Deal with it.

As for Palm. Palm is no longer supporting Palm Desktop because iCal does the trick - for *shipping* Palms. Our marketshare is too small to warrant an investment to rewrite Desktop to handle the completely new OS. Hopefully you understand that?!?! Palm didn't even write it in the first place- Claris did. The day to day use of current Palms can handled by isync and hotsync (which triggers all your conduits through isync). Palm desktop is not needed everyday if you use iSync. You configure hotsync once- and for most users that's it. I can promise you there will be a solution to replacing hotsync when the time comes.

Even after Palm6 comes out, Palm Desktop will still be supported by PalmOne on the OS < 6 devices. You can use it to sync/install all the packages you want. Palm Desktop is on the Apple servers- available for anyone to download. Current Palm users have not been stranded as you lead everyone to believe. I'll bet OS5 handhelds will still be sold when 6.0 devices come out... and they'll still say "Mac Compatible."

You're complaining that isync doesn't support Cobalt devices that haven't even shipped yet? How could it? Your argument is insane. Why don't we revisit this when the first non-mac compatible Palms come out.

Hotsync didn't stop working the day they PalmOne said they were ending development. :rolleyes:

I guess you'll never be able to install items on a Palm device again. I'm amazed that Apple would abandon all of the Palm users. There are more Palm based devices supported (http://www.apple.com/isync/devices.html) than devices from other providers. Seems like a lot of users for Apple to abandon, but again- you know best.

Maybe you should license the Newton technology from Apple?

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 01:16 PM
-

SiliconAddict
Mar 17, 2004, 01:35 PM
What was salvageable by Apple (data soups -> opendoc, handwriting recognition -> inkwell) was reused. The rest is gone.


Sorry but I call BS on that one. No company in their right mind just tosses code when its just as easy to archive it and dump it in a vault somewhere. The Newton OS source is in the bowels of Apple somewhere.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 01:49 PM
Sorry but I call BS on that one. No company in their right mind just tosses code when its just as easy to archive it and dump it in a vault somewhere. The Newton OS source is in the bowels of Apple somewhere.

I never said code was tossed. Someone else posted that there is a rumor that the original hard drive that contain the Newton OS was lost. I don't know anything about that.

What I've always known through Apple employees that I've worked with: When Steve pulled Newton Inc. back into Apple anyone that knew anything about the Newton and it's development jumped ship. The brain drain stole the working knowledge of how to piece it together. Whether it's improperly commented code, missing hard drives, bad management, bad documentation, spiteful ex-employees - I have no idea. I do know what was worthwhile to Apple was saved and reused. The rest is probably on an a/ux server in Cupertino.

It's a fact that there's no one left at Apple with intimate knowledge of NOS.

aswitcher
Mar 17, 2004, 01:55 PM
I think the A/V iPod might as well be a real PDA.
Does anyone thing we will not see an A/V iPod in the next 2 years?
Might as well make it a PDA...little more cost for much more functionality

The Expatriate
Mar 17, 2004, 02:20 PM
Well what do ya know, it looks like my premonition of a colour screen iPod was right (?), it will only be a short hop skip and a leap before we see multi-media iPods before the end of next year (if Apple are going to pursue their stakes in the portable entertainment market, they'll have to keep up the development front and eventually supersede the iPod with something even better - a new Newt?).

For the moment though the iPod architecture has all the necessary resources to make the leap from music to audio/visual content. A PVR (Personal Video Recorder) similar to the Thomson Lyra (quote from the Mail on Sunday March 7th) -

"But the final word on how good the (Thomson) PDP-2860 is goes to portable entertainment masters Sony and Apple - both companies have announced they are developing their own rival video machines."

Apple are getting closer and closer to a Newton iPod convergence offering a/v entertainment and business support. The next big thing will be iPods with built in modems and wi-fi to download content from .Mac storage.

The future is bright, and it's Apple - not orange, hehe.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 03:06 PM
the abridged history of palm/newton/be/next/osx is quite interesting and incestuous. As you can see Apple has crossed the PDA path many times:


1985 - Steve Jobs is forced out of Apple

1990 - Be Inc. is founded by ex-Apple head of Europe Jean-Louis Gassé

1992 - Palm Inc. is founded

1993 - Scully launches Newton MessagePad

1995 - U.S. Robotics buys Palm

1996 - Amelio buys NeXT w/Jobs (instead of Be Inc.) to "buy" OSX

1997 - 3Com purchases U.S. Robotics
1997 - Amelio spins Newton off as it's own company
1997 - Jobs squeezes Amelio out of Apple
1997 - Jobs brings Newton back into Apple
1997 - The Newton team begins exodous to 3Com/Palm and others

1998 - Jobs kills Newton development
1998 - Jobs declares "Apple will produce a new Newton"
1998 - 3com buys Claris Organizer from Apple (Currrent Palm Desktop)
1998 - Hawkins, Dubinsky and Colligan leave Palm to create Handspring

2000 - Palm IPOs
2000 - Handspring IPOs

2001 - Jobs tries to buy and/or license Palm Inc.
2001 - Palm buys Be Inc. to "buy" OS6

2003 - Palm buys Handspring
2003 - Jobs tells shareholders that Apple will never make a PDA

2004 - Palm announces OS6 will not be supported on Macs


Remember from 1998 until now there's been nothing but iWalk/ApplePDA/Newton rumors every 6 months.

Snowy_River
Mar 17, 2004, 03:13 PM
YOU WILL NOT SEE A NEW NEWTON.

Clearly you have a problem with that. You believe a new Newton is coming.

Pardon. I have to ask, when did I ever say that I believed a new Newton was coming?

The closest that I've said to that is:
I'd love to see an up-to-date version of the Newton released. We can hope...

Please, don't put words in my mouth.

A device from Apple is POSSIBLE. A device based on the Newton is IMPOSSIBLE.

And Inigo says: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means (http://www.ghwphoto.com/youkeepusing.aiff)"

As for Palm... Our marketshare is too small to warrant an investment to rewrite Desktop to handle the completely new OS...

And, again, you're changing your argument. Now you're saying that the reason that Palm chose to abandon the Mac is because the marketshare is too small. Yes, this may be the case. But this has nothing to do with iSync!

Honestly, why are you throwing such insulting posts around? All I've tried to do is suggest that some of your arguments don't make sense. You've done nothing but turn around and insult me, change your arguments, and insist that you've been right from the beginning. (I am exagerating a little, but I'm trying to make a point.) If you have an argument to make, then make it. If it's flawed, accept it when it's pointed out to you, or defend it reasonably. But throwing insults back in the face of the person who's offerring a counter argument is not a good way to defend your point of view.

pcp_ip
Mar 17, 2004, 03:28 PM
Honestly, why are you throwing such insulting posts around?

:rolleyes:


Whatever. None of this is worth it.
This used to be such a better place to discuss things.

bensisko
Mar 17, 2004, 09:14 PM
And Inigo says: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means (http://www.ghwphoto.com/youkeepusing.aiff)".

THANK YOU!!
I hate when people throw around the word "Impossible." Strictly speaking, NOTHING is impossible, just highly improbable. While a new Newton (or any Apple PDA) is highly improbable, it is NOT "Impossible"!! (I would have thought that, when dealing with Steve Jobs, people would know better than to say something is "impossible" or "won't be done".) Having said that, I do not believe Apple will produce something like this.

Oh, and for the person who said the Treo 600 is the answer, I had to laugh!! While the Treo 600 is a capable machine, and it probable works for some people, I would NEVER be able to rely on the Treo 600 for my mobile needs. It's a great phone, but it would never replace my Newton OR my Toshiba e750.

cornboy
Mar 17, 2004, 09:32 PM
I'd buy one. All the other PDA's for Mac suck. I want a PDA that works just as smooth with my computer as my iPod does.
But isn't the ipod just a spit away from being a PDA, it has a calendar, it has contacts, it plays music, you can record memos, store documents - yep, you can do most anything that most people do with a PDA. All SJ has to do is decide to go the whole hog.

cornboy
Mar 17, 2004, 09:39 PM
I wonder who is behind this. I think some mac friendly people with alot of money.

I guess they see a niche here they can fill. Very interesting nevertheless.

how about those very nice chaps over at OQO.com? Logical move, they know the Apple stuff inside out, they're product has promised much but delivered nothing becasue the market moved while the money men were still sitting in their hands.

SiliconAddict
Mar 17, 2004, 11:43 PM
You know. The more I read this quote from thinksecret....

a Stone Multimedia representative said that "Apple is not even close" to relaunching the Newton, and that at the moment, a US company "approached Apple willing to buy [the] Newton and relaunch it. They are in ... negotiations with Apple," the rep said.

The more I'm convinced that this "US Company" may very well be either HP or Gateway.

HP makes sense because they were one of the last on the market to give up producing Microsoft handheld PC devices based on Windows CE. (Not to be confused with Pocket PC's.) They had and possibly have a major hard on for handheld systems. Also they were one of the first out of the gate with the Tablet PC featuring Windows XP: Tablet Edition with a very innovative design. This suggests that HP is looking for a handwriting solution for the corp environment. As much as I like the Tablet PC its too bulky and expensive for writing notes. A Newton could fit the bill for a midrange unit until Tablets take off in the market. Cheaper, smaller tablets.
Also with the new relationship with Apple in regards to the HPod someone over there may be thinking what other Apple wares they could distribute.

The other alternative is Gateway....mooooo. Over the last year they have put their toe in the waters of the PDA market but every time it looks like they are finally going to take the plunge they canning the idea. I don't think it would be out of the realm of possibilities that someone in moocow country thought up the idea of the Newton and hired Stone Multimedia to do some preliminary market research to see if there is a market for a new Newton.

Personally of the two I would rather have HP. They have at least some history of innovation and software design. Gateway? Ehh. Not really.

aswitcher
Mar 18, 2004, 12:04 AM
You know. The more I read this quote from thinksecret....



The more I'm convinced that this "US Company" may very well be either HP or Gateway.

HP makes sense because they were one of the last on the market to give up producing Microsoft handheld PC devices based on Windows CE. (Not to be confused with Pocket PC's.) They had and possibly have a major hard on for handheld systems. Also they were one of the first out of the gate with the Tablet PC featuring Windows XP: Tablet Edition with a very innovative design. This suggests that HP is looking for a handwriting solution for the corp environment. As much as I like the Tablet PC its too bulky and expensive for writing notes. A Newton could fit the bill for a midrange unit until Tablets take off in the market. Cheaper, smaller tablets.
Also with the new relationship with Apple in regards to the HPod someone over there may be thinking what other Apple wares they could distribute.

SNIP

Personally of the two I would rather have HP. They have at least some history of innovation and software design. Gateway? Ehh. Not really.

Yep, I raised this a little while back, saying that the iPod deal with HP could have a recipricol arrangement with HP to do an Apple PDA... If Palm found out they of course would see the writing on the wall. It all fits BUT we will just have to wait and see...

bensisko
Mar 18, 2004, 12:37 AM
But isn't the ipod just a spit away from being a PDA, it has a calendar, it has contacts, it plays music, you can record memos, store documents - yep, you can do most anything that most people do with a PDA. All SJ has to do is decide to go the whole hog.

Nope, the iPod is not a PDA (for most PDA users), mainly because you cannot enter information into the iPod on the go. So until I can enter contact information and add an appointment to the calender, the iPod is NOT a PDA, it's mearly a viewer.

Snowy_River
Mar 18, 2004, 12:59 AM
Nope, the iPod is not a PDA (for most PDA users), mainly because you cannot enter information into the iPod on the go. So until I can enter contact information and add an appointment to the calender, the iPod is NOT a PDA, it's mearly a viewer.

Yeah, but imagine if they could add some basic speach recognition into the iPod, so that you could navigate to calendar, then add an appointment by dictating it...

I know, I know, pie in the sky. Still, it's fun to dream....

:D

bensisko
Mar 18, 2004, 01:02 AM
The more I'm convinced that this "US Company" may very well be either HP or Gateway.

I highly doubt HP, mostly because the iPaq is still the darling flagship Pocket PC. The iPaq is a heavy name in the PDA industry (perhaps not quite as much as the iPod in the portable music, but still, a VERY heavy player). MS would not let HP dive into the Newton without a fight, and there's really no sense in abandoning a profitable product line in favor of a questionable one.

Gateway? They just bought eMachines, and I doubt they have the cash flow (without going into huge debt) to launch something completely new.

Dell would never do it because they are not in the market of taking risks.

The only 'computer company' solutions would be:
1) IBM, but I really don't see them making a plunge and possibly cutting into their ThinkPad line.
2) Microsoft. They have already bought some Newton technologies from Apple for use in Pocket PC (some of which have appeared and some of which have not). They could want more technology to 'assimulate' into Pocket PC. (If you want a conspiracy theory, it's rumored that part of the lawsuit settlement and the new version of office for the mac deal was the killing of the Newton because the eMate threatened MS's plans for expansion into education markets [which never really happened] and the Newton cut into sales of high-end Windows CE devices. Apple and MS agreed to share technologies and MS got to take a really good close look at Newton techology. It's a fact that some of this made it's way into what would be called Pocket PC.)

Really neither of these match. i highly doubt Apple would ever sell anything they hold the rights to. Not only could it be a Public Relations nightmare (if it succeded or not), but you never know what technology could be scavanged for a future version of Mac OS X/Powerbooks (some eMate design principles made it into the first iBooks).

Sorry to everybody hoping for a new Newton, it's VERY unlikely that the Newton will appear. I don't know why this multimedia group is putting this out (perhaps publicity??), but if you look at the facts (a canadian company is doing a survey for an american company looking to buy technology from another american company????), nothing seems to add up or make sense.

Just a wondering thought, has Steve Jobs EVER sold an Apple technology? License, yes. Sold? Maybe, but I don't know of anything.

bensisko
Mar 18, 2004, 01:05 AM
Yeah, but imagine if they could add some basic speach recognition into the iPod, so that you could navigate to calendar, then add an appointment by dictating it...

I know, I know, pie in the sky. Still, it's fun to dream....

:D

Don't they have to get it to work on the desktop BEFORE they put it on the iPod? (I haven't tried the new software yet, so I can't speak for that...)

mac_lowlife
Mar 18, 2004, 03:29 PM
People still use PDAs? Are they really that useful? Do I really need another rectangular box in my pocket? I'd rather bank on a next gen iPod to go down this road. Die PDA, Die.

aswitcher
Mar 18, 2004, 11:43 PM
People still use PDAs? Are they really that useful? Do I really need another rectangular box in my pocket? I'd rather bank on a next gen iPod to go down this road. Die PDA, Die.

PDAs can be REALLY useful if your job involves meetings, multiple tasks, reference tables and documents, many contacts...and an iPod will not do because you can't enter data away from the computer. Love to chuck my palm T2 for a Mac PDA

Ken Heins
Mar 19, 2004, 11:58 PM
In my my business, real estate, even a 12 inch I-Book is much too large to be practical. If you don't believe me, try it all day every day, and you will change your mind.

And, after having lived with a Toshiba PDA for 3 months and having it repaired under warranty 3 different times, I am BEGGING for Apple to get back in to the market.

BTW: the Toshiba syncs using MissingSync with my I-Book much easier than it does with Microsoft/Active Sync on a Windows machine. Amazing!

IPods are ok, but people in the real world actually have time to mess around with music and games?????????

No doubt I will get flamed for that, but I believe that if Apple actually got back into the PDA market, it would be a larger market than the I-Pod, and that would REALLY make people in the real world notice Apple. Entertainment is fine, but that is such a tiny part of the real world.

But then Steve Jobs would have to dirty his hands with us evil business people as opposed to those cool, hip pop culture types. To be fair, he is heavily involved in business and more power to him, he just likes to act as if he is above it all.

But I just ask him to remember us business types. Some of us in business use Macs every day, and even with all the disadvantages caused by our small percentage of the market, my Windows friend marvel every day at what I can do easily compared to their stuff.

Just bring it to a PDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And hack a way to allow us Mac types to read all websites, even those that are sabotaged by Microsofts' code writers so that they can only be read by MSIE on a Windows machine! Either that or sue the SOB's.

tex210
Mar 22, 2004, 01:06 PM
In my my business, real estate, even a 12 inch I-Book is much too large to be practical. If you don't believe me, try it all day every day, and you will change your mind.

And, after having lived with a Toshiba PDA for 3 months and having it repaired under warranty 3 different times, I am BEGGING for Apple to get back in to the market.

BTW: the Toshiba syncs using MissingSync with my I-Book much easier than it does with Microsoft/Active Sync on a Windows machine. Amazing!

IPods are ok, but people in the real world actually have time to mess around with music and games?????????

No doubt I will get flamed for that, but I believe that if Apple actually got back into the PDA market, it would be a larger market than the I-Pod, and that would REALLY make people in the real world notice Apple. Entertainment is fine, but that is such a tiny part of the real world.

But then Steve Jobs would have to dirty his hands with us evil business people as opposed to those cool, hip pop culture types. To be fair, he is heavily involved in business and more power to him, he just likes to act as if he is above it all.

But I just ask him to remember us business types. Some of us in business use Macs every day, and even with all the disadvantages caused by our small percentage of the market, my Windows friend marvel every day at what I can do easily compared to their stuff.

Just bring it to a PDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And hack a way to allow us Mac types to read all websites, even those that are sabotaged by Microsofts' code writers so that they can only be read by MSIE on a Windows machine! Either that or sue the SOB's.





Ken, what if that manufacturer of the vpod or whatever is actually toshiba?
check this out on brighthand...
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Toshiba_Showing_Off_Cutting-Edge_Tech?site=

Isn't that everything steve is waiting for? Maybe the price point has to fall first.
edit: If it is Toshiba, I hope Quality is improved over your device experience.

My only other notion is that PalmOne is up to something with Apple...
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Jan/bpd20040128023640.htm

antcomp
Jun 30, 2004, 04:08 AM
It's always a good thing when 3rd parties develop for the Mac. Hey Apple can't do it alone. I always see new gadgets coming out that are PC only. If Apple wants to get back into the game it is key that 3rd parties develop for the Mac. I would love to one day walk into a CompUSA and see items on the shelf that say Mac only ;) ther already are, Office 2004: Mac, Final cut pro, Final cut express, Mac OS X, iLife, Soundtrack, Apple remote Desktop,Motion, and Adobe creative suite. okay that last one is also avalible to windows as is office but neither ship on the same disk and the rest are all Apple products

22350
Nov 10, 2004, 01:11 AM