Rev B it is, but SSD or HDD?

[nph]

I know it has been asked before but now I have finally decided rev Bit will be only is it worth $600 for the 1.8 SSD?

Is it better to save the money for the next revision or make this one last longer (at least a year maybe)?
My take is that the SDD makes people feel they have a much faster machine,

Is this correct and does SSD also provide less heat than the HDD?

Battery I understand is about the same, right?

Sorry for asking what has been discussed before but my thinking is that there are finally more HDD MBAs out there for comparison so it should be a good time to ask the question again.

Thanks!

[LinMac]

I bought the 1.6GHz with 120GB HDD. It isn't that I couldn't justify the price, it is just the fact I didn't see the performance improvements I expected from the SSD in the Rev. B.

[cerealj]

I also think it's not worth the $600. I don't own a MBA, but I'm given to understand that you probably wouldn't see the 200mhz improvement anyway because it gets too hot and throttles down.

[djrobx]

I used a friend's rev. A (HDD) air, and knew I had to buy the SSD. It's a HUGE leap in snappiness in terms of loading stuff, which mitigates the slower processor speed. For me its the difference between having a nimble laptop I can live with for the next 3 years, vs. something that constantly reminds me that I'm making compromises for its form factor that I'd be aching to upgrade.

The processor difference probably isn't big enough to be noteworthy.

I do a lot of computer repair work, and I've seen so many well spec'd laptops that just run like a dog, solely due to a 4200rpm drive. Didn't want to live with one in a new $1800 laptop. Now that it's done I'm happy with my choice. You may, however, want to take the the lower model, bank the savings, and buy a 256GB SSD later on. Don't know how easy that will be to actually do, but it's definitely a strategy with merit. I'm glad I was able to hold out for Rev B + 128GB, it's "just right" for me.

[Scottsdale]

Think about boot times, app start times, and file opening times. I have used both extensively but never together. With the MBA 2.0, the differences are acceptable because the HDD is much better in the MBA 2.0 than the SSD in the original MBA. That being said, I have noticed considerable difference between the SSD and HDD in the 2.0.

So I was at the Apple store the other day, and started the 1.6 HDD and 1.86 SSD at the same time; it took about 29 seconds for the SSD and 87 seconds for the HDD to boot. Multiply that minute times every time you start it over years of use. The SSD opens apps and large files faster, near instantly.

I bought the MBA 2.0, 1.86, SSD as I calculated the differences to me. 2 minutes for everytime I use the MBA. One minute for boot and one minute for all of the file and app openings. I used three times per day of boot/use/shutdown. Those two MBAs may not have exact same other specs or apps affecting them so could be different.

6 minutes day
42 minutes week
189 minutes per month (4.5 wks per/month)
2268 minutes per year (189 * 12 months)
4576 minutes over two years
That's over 76 hours over two years.

I think the price difference is $500 in US for SSD and same CPU. That is equal to approximately $6.50 per hour you save. If you make more than $6.50 per hour, then I think is a wise upgrade.

This was not an exact science but a mere guess based on two computers on display at Apple Store.

The point is, if you have the money, I think the added price is well worth the speed differences you may experience.

[tubbymac]

It comes down to your usage pattern, nph.

If you're the type that shuts down his computer and boots it every day, or multiple times a day, the SSD will be much faster. If you quit the applications you use and restart them every time you need to use them, again the SSD will be a considerable productivity boost to your workflow.

If instead you sleep your machine instead of shutting it down every day and rarely ever reboot your workflow would not be significantly impacted by the HD. If you keep your apps always running without shutting them down you will notice nearly no difference in day to day use. In this case the HD would be better for your needs.

[LinMac]

I don't know what it is, but I've found the SSD just doesn't deliver the same type of "snappiness" it will on a more powerful machine. I have a Unibody Macbook Pro with an SSD, but I just didn't see the same level of performance return from the Macbook Air (Rev. B) in HDD vs. SSD.

[PowerFullMac]

SSDs give better performance and will last a lot longer than HDs. Get the SSD if you can afford it.

[justit]

Aside from speed, the decision for SSD should be based on better resale.

Also, if you decide not to get SSD, there's no looking back as today there is no solution other than Apple for an SSD for the Rev B MBA.

[EnderTW]

Aside from speed, the decision for SSD should be based on better resale.

Also, if you decide not to get SSD, there's no looking back as today there is no solution other than Apple for an SSD for the Rev B MBA.

He is right, currently there is no other solution for an SSD.

key word though is currently.

[mhnajjar]

Get the HDD and upgrade it to an SSD later whenever it is available :)

[jevel]

It comes down to your usage pattern, nph.

If you're the type that shuts down his computer and boots it every day, or multiple times a day, the SSD will be much faster. If you quit the applications you use and restart them every time you need to use them, again the SSD will be a considerable productivity boost to your workflow.

If instead you sleep your machine instead of shutting it down every day and rarely ever reboot your workflow would not be significantly impacted by the HD. If you keep your apps always running without shutting them down you will notice nearly no difference in day to day use. In this case the HD would be better for your needs.

Indeed.

I bought a rev. B a couple weeks back, and I went to the local Apple store to check them out.

I found that the best solution for me was an 1.83GHz with a normal HDD. I almost never reboot my machine and keep my main apps open at all time. With my usage pattern the SSD was simply not worth it. I maxed the CPU simply to make sure I had the most power when (if) I want to upgrade my OS later on.

Regarding heat emission the 1.83 has the same numbers as the 1.6 according to Intel spec.

-KJ

[Scottsdale]

Indeed.

I bought a rev. B a couple weeks back, and I went to the local Apple store to check them out.

I found that the best solution for me was an 1.83GHz with a normal HDD. I almost never reboot my machine and keep my main apps open at all time. With my usage pattern the SSD was simply not worth it. I maxed the CPU simply to make sure I had the most power when (if) I want to upgrade my OS later on.

Regarding heat emission the 1.83 has the same numbers as the 1.6 according to Intel spec.

-KJ

I definitely think the $500 for SSD is for those that can afford it or feel it will benefit them greatly to justify buying it.

For me, I am a consultant. I work from a home office in the morning. I visit one or two client offices in the afternoon, and then I use it at home in the evening. In addition, I use it as my only Mac and primary work computer. The "business" side of it along with the distinct set pattern of multiple shutdown and startups made it a worthy choice. Had I only used it at home, I definitely would have went 1.86 GHz with HDD.

It is really fast. For what I use it for, it seems like my fastest computer ever. It's my fifth Mac, and I believe it's the best Mac purchase I have ever made. Portability is just amazing with it. I had the original MBA, but it was not a quarter of the computer that the 2.0 is.

[jevel]

I understand your point, but I don't understand why I would want to keep shutting down my computer?

One of the big strengths with MacBooks and OS X is the superb sleep function. When I open the lid again it's ready to use in under two seconds.

Shutting it down all the time makes no sense to me.

Same with opening and closing applications. As long as I'm not running into swapping to harddrive, I tend to keep whatever apps I use open. (Firefox, terminal, Entourage and iPhoto being the normal ones...)

I'm not saying this is the "correct" use of the computer, but it seems very strange to me to not utilise the strengths of your system. Both the sleep and the superb memory managment of OS X really shines on a platform like MBA. :)

-KJ

[LinMac]

I definitely think the $500 for SSD is for those that can afford it or feel it will benefit them greatly to justify buying it.

For me, I am a consultant. I work from a home office in the morning. I visit one or two client offices in the afternoon, and then I use it at home in the evening. In addition, I use it as my only Mac and primary work computer. The "business" side of it along with the distinct set pattern of multiple shutdown and startups made it a worthy choice. Had I only used it at home, I definitely would have went 1.86 GHz with HDD.

It is really fast. For what I use it for, it seems like my fastest computer ever. It's my fifth Mac, and I believe it's the best Mac purchase I have ever made. Portability is just amazing with it. I had the original MBA, but it was not a quarter of the computer that the 2.0 is.

The Macbook Air isn't really a home PC. The small size and form factor make it perfect for traveling in most cases.

I did testing related to the snappiness of the computer. This is really just subjective based on how fast the computer feels rather than the benchmarks. Most of the benefit of the SSH just wasn't there in the Macbook Air, but was in the Macbook Pro/Macbook. I don't know where the difference is, but that is just how I saw it.

I can see changing out to a SSD in the future when they are much cheaper, but I didn't and still don't see the advantages for the extra $500 when buying a Macbook Air. I did buy one from Apple in my Macbook Pro and I don't regret the decision in the least. Go figure why there is a difference. :D

[spacecadet610]

I wouldn't buy an SSD now as prices will continue to drop. Just get buy with a HD until SSD prices become comparable

[rogerggie]

If I did buy a HDD Macbook Air, could I later upgrade to SSD as bigger and hopefully cheaper ones come to market?

Is a 5400 or 7200 rpm hard drive not compatible with the Air or just not fit it?

[Scottsdale]

I checked into this before buying mine. I was hopeful to upgrade to one of the Intel SSD drives. The problem is the connector Apple uses is not compatible with 100% of the SSDs available on the market. This means whatever drive you buy your MBA with is only drive you will use unless upgrading through Apple. The drive in the new MBA uses a SATA-II/LIF connector.

From my understanding from posts here, there are NO SSDs on the market that use this connector. Apple really wants to make the money on the SSD.

Check here in the MBA section and search it. This has been discussed and researched and no possibility until a company makes an SSD with an LIF connector. Supposedly the original MBAs do have SSD upgrade potential on market as there are PATA-LIF SSDs available.

[jjahshik32]

How about:

3.2ghz quad core 2 duo
8gb of RAM
2TB SLC SSD
same keyboard
same dimensions
1600x768 OLED display
3.5g/4g capability

[manhattanboy]

I understand your point, but I don't understand why I would want to keep shutting down my computer?

One of the big strengths with MacBooks and OS X is the superb sleep function. When I open the lid again it's ready to use in under two seconds.

Shutting it down all the time makes no sense to me.

Same with opening and closing applications. As long as I'm not running into swapping to harddrive, I tend to keep whatever apps I use open. (Firefox, terminal, Entourage and iPhoto being the normal ones...)

I'm not saying this is the "correct" use of the computer, but it seems very strange to me to not utilise the strengths of your system. Both the sleep and the superb memory managment of OS X really shines on a platform like MBA. :)

-KJ

Shutdown saves battery which is essential for the AIR!

[jevel]

That really depends.

With the added draw from high harddrive activity and CPU, my guess is that you will save marginal amounts unless you would keep it turned off for quite some time.

But if you keep it turned off for any longer period of time it´d mean that you really won´t need the battery because you don´t use the machine. Catch my drift?

I generally charge my MBA either in the evening after work, or over night. Even though i let it sleep all night I generally have enough power to get me through the workday afterwards. (0700 - 1700)

So; sorry. I don´t buy that explanation. ;)

-KJ

[jjahshik32]

I would get the SSD model, running everything (especially multitasking) on OSX adds up in terms of speed.

To me if you go for the mba, the SSD model is the only one really worth it.

Just think, something that small can run in the same speed as a desktop.

[jevel]

The SSD will give you next to nothing when it comes to multitasking. Where it will shine is in starting applications and booting the OS.

In all the indepth tests I´ve seen, the HDD version outperforms the SSD on datatransfer where you transfer big files / a lot of data.

The main advantages of the SSD is the shorter boot, faster opening of most applications and the absolute silence.

Power consumption is marginally lower, overall system speed is marginally better and heat is also marginally lower. But none of these factors really justifies the added price if you don´t have an unlimited budget. (In which case you should choose the SSD just for the added durability a nonmoving storage solution will give you.)

-KJ

[NewGenAdam]

I wouldn't buy an SSD now as prices will continue to drop. Just get buy with a HD until SSD prices become comparable

+1

It's possible to replace the hard drive. And I certainly don't think it's worth paying for 0.2 GHz more processing speed.

[Scottsdale]

+1

It's possible to replace the hard drive. And I certainly don't think it's worth paying for 0.2 GHz more processing speed.

Unless someone manufactures an SSD with SATA-II/LIF connector, there is no way to upgrade a MBA revB. Currently there are no manufacturers of it other than Apple's custom model (by Samsung I think). But none available aftermarket for the MBA revB. I hope that changes, as even my 128 GB SSD is not large enough for me. And SSDs are getting faster than the current models. Maybe Apple will make it a standard connection in the revC. But for now, Apple wants to make the extra $$$ on the SSD, and until an SSD manufacturer makes an LIF connector, Apple is the only way for the MBA revB.

[jjahshik32]

The SSD will give you next to nothing when it comes to multitasking. Where it will shine is in starting applications and booting the OS.

In all the indepth tests I´ve seen, the HDD version outperforms the SSD on datatransfer where you transfer big files / a lot of data.

The main advantages of the SSD is the shorter boot, faster opening of most applications and the absolute silence.

Power consumption is marginally lower, overall system speed is marginally better and heat is also marginally lower. But none of these factors really justifies the added price if you don´t have an unlimited budget. (In which case you should choose the SSD just for the added durability a nonmoving storage solution will give you.)

-KJ

Oh believe me, multitasking has gotten crazy fast. If you try to load 2-5 apps at the same time, each application will slow down the other, thus creating the huge bottleneck which slows your mba to a crawl. Especially with a 4200rpm hdd.

Also even when your apps are fully loaded and if you do have a lot open and try to go back and forth the color wheel always comes up, not anymore with the SSD.

Anyway, when I put the intel x25-m SSD in my 2.53ghz mbp (and this is me coming 6 months ago from a 2.8ghz 8 core mac pro desktop, 16gb of ram, 150gb 10,000rpm raptor hdd) and this mbp + ssd is a bit faster.

Yes I said a bit faster, which is insane for a notebook vs. a desktop (in overall speed of the os, not like cpu rendering or anything of course against the 8 core beast). This goes to show that all this time the cpu architecture wasnt the one lagging behind, its the harddrive thats been the huge bottleneck for the past 5-7 years.

SSD upgrade has been the best upgrade I've ever made in the last 15 years 2nd next to 3d graphics, its that great. I cant wait for the mac pro desktop to get an update so I can pick one up and put my current intel x25-m in it, which would be even more amazing.

[rhyx]

SSD if you can afford it by far. It makes that big of a difference.

[jevel]

Oh believe me, multitasking has gotten crazy fast. If you try to load 2-5 apps at the same time, each application will slow down the other, thus creating the huge bottleneck which slows your mba to a crawl. Especially with a 4200rpm hdd.

Also even when your apps are fully loaded and if you do have a lot open and try to go back and forth the color wheel always comes up, not anymore with the SSD.

Anyway, when I put the intel x25-m SSD in my 2.53ghz mbp (and this is me coming 6 months ago from a 2.8ghz 8 core mac pro desktop, 16gb of ram, 150gb 10,000rpm raptor hdd) and this mbp + ssd is a bit faster.

Yes I said a bit faster, which is insane for a notebook vs. a desktop (in overall speed of the os, not like cpu rendering or anything of course against the 8 core beast). This goes to show that all this time the cpu architecture wasnt the one lagging behind, its the harddrive thats been the huge bottleneck for the past 5-7 years.

SSD upgrade has been the best upgrade I've ever made in the last 15 years 2nd next to 3d graphics, its that great. I cant wait for the mac pro desktop to get an update so I can pick one up and put my current intel x25-m in it, which would be even more amazing.

I'm not saying that I do not believe you, but this is the exact opposite of what a lot of tests of the MBA SSD vs. HDD is reporting.

Do you have a video showing the difference? Test numbers?

It would be interesting to compare your findings to the other tests out there.

-KJ

[ntrigue]

I purchased the MBA 1.86SSD intending to buy the MBP in January 2010.

I felt that a) my Rev A HDD was a tad too slow for my needs b) SSD is going to be quite common when I sell this Rev B in January.

Until then I am thoroughly enjoying this computer; Apple got the Macbook Air right this time! If it weren't for a few rendering and movie ripping needs I would own a MBA for years. Ultimately, I can Handbrake a DVD is a fourth of the time with a new MBP.

[Scottsdale]

I purchased the MBA 1.86SSD intending to buy the MBP in January 2010.

I felt that a) my Rev A HDD was a tad too slow for my needs b) SSD is going to be quite common when I sell this Rev B in January.

Until then I am thoroughly enjoying this computer; Apple got the Macbook Air right this time! If it weren't for a few rendering and movie ripping needs I would own a MBA for years. Ultimately, I can Handbrake a DVD is a fourth of the time with a new MBP.

I agree, they got the MBA revB really right. My revB smokes most computers I have ever used. The SSD really makes my 1.86 FAST. The more I use it, the more I am truly amazed by my MBA revB. It was hard to believe, going from a revA MBA, to unibody MB that the revB changed the game for the MBA. After reading the stories, seeing the xBench marks and finally trying it out made me rethink as I was going to hold out for a revC. I couldn't wait, I broke down and bought the revB, and I would NEVER go back. I am addicted to my revB MBA.

For all of you considering the refurbished revA, I urge you to seriously consider the upgrade to the revB. Once you have tried the revB, you will realize how much nicer it is.

[drevil]

My wife's MBP 2.16 now seems loud,slow and without trackpad gestures cumbersome. My MBA w/SSD is by far the best Apple purchase I have made. If you want an absolutely silent machine that is a joy to use get the MBA w/SSD.

[NATO]

For all of you considering the refurbished revA, I urge you to seriously consider the upgrade to the revB. Once you have tried the revB, you will realize how much nicer it is.

I'm curious to know whether it would be worth going for a Rev A (1.8Ghz with 64GB SSD) or Rev B (1.6GHz with 120GB HDD)?

The reason I ask is that it's possible to pick up this RevA model for a bit less than a new RevB entry level model (The prices are roughly comparable). I know the Rev B has a much better architecture with the NVidia chipset etc, but would the Rev A be a better choice on a limited budget if it was the slightly faster version with SSD? Which would feel faster?

[DeanCorp]

I just received my new 1.86/128GB SSD MacBook Air as a replacement from my old 1.6/80GB (Rev A) MacBook Air. I can tell you the extra money is definitely worth it. I copied my Music folder over via USB to a 7200RPM hard drive (1.64GB). It took 28 minutes on Rev A. I tried again on my SSD, 2 minutes!

The boot times are incomparable as it is such a big difference. When copying multiple files to multiple locations on the machine, the hard drive will lock up whereas the SSD will handle it fine.

I also tried launching ALL the icons in the dock and the MacBook Air Rev A took almost 1.5 minutes longer to launch all the applications.

If you have the extra cash definitely go for it. If not, maybe save up or consider purchasing the new Aluminium MacBook as 1.3KG vs 2.04KG is not such a big difference.

[NATO]

I'm definitely thinking that given a fixed budget, it might make sense to go for a RevA with SSD, rather than the newer RevB with a hard drive, since the SSD seems to make such a massive difference.

[justit]

I'm definitely thinking that given a fixed budget, it might make sense to go for a RevA with SSD, rather than the newer RevB with a hard drive, since the SSD seems to make such a massive difference.

There's an Xbench thread here that has rev B HDD better than Rev A SSD, search for it if you want to be an informed buyer.

[NATO]

Wow, I didn't know that! Thanks for the heads up, I'll search for that :)

[rhyx]

There's an Xbench thread here that has rev B HDD better than Rev A SSD, search for it if you want to be an informed buyer.

It is better in most cases but not all.

[eVolcre]

I'm curious to know whether it would be worth going for a Rev A (1.8Ghz with 64GB SSD) or Rev B (1.6GHz with 120GB HDD)?

The reason I ask is that it's possible to pick up this RevA model for a bit less than a new RevB entry level model (The prices are roughly comparable). I know the Rev B has a much better architecture with the NVidia chipset etc, but would the Rev A be a better choice on a limited budget if it was the slightly faster version with SSD? Which would feel faster?


Similar dilemma here. Assuming both prices are equal* which is a better buy? RevA SSD or RevBHD. All my heavy lifting would be on my main machine.

Refurb from apple works out to 1299 + tax + shipping which is about 1420. Brand new RevB would be 1799 flat from amazon which is about 350 more.

Speaking of which, when do returns on new models typically start showing up and what's the usual discount? 1550 on revB HD by mid April realistic?

EV

[That70sGAdawg]

Get the HDD and upgrade it to an SSD later whenever it is available :)

I agree. It's not worth the $600 up front. My Rev. B HDD is plenty "snappy"!!!

[zer0tails]

Similar dilemma here. Assuming both prices are equal* which is a better buy? RevA SSD or RevBHD. All my heavy lifting would be on my main machine.

Refurb from apple works out to 1299 + tax + shipping which is about 1420. Brand new RevB would be 1799 flat from amazon which is about 350 more.

Speaking of which, when do returns on new models typically start showing up and what's the usual discount? 1550 on revB HD by mid April realistic?

EV

they should have shown up by now. But Apple seems to be taking longer than usual maybe because they really want to get rid of Rev. A stock. i think 1550 on a Rev B HD is reasonable.

As for your question on which is a better buy. I think both sort of have their pros and cons that equal themselves out.

So the deciding factor comes down to which you deem more important: a better gpu or a HD.

[preacher]

Got lucky to find a mint used 1.86 SSD for $1999! Now that's definitely worth it! :p

[poky]

Got lucky to find a mint used 1.86 SSD for $1999! Now that's definitely worth it! :p

I've been eying on the 1.86 SSD, the cheapest I saw is $1800 brand new on fleabay.

[tubbymac]

I'd personally take a rev B with hard drive over a rev A with SSD but that's assuming no horizontal lines.

[eVolcre]

I've been eying on the 1.86 SSD, the cheapest I saw is $1800 brand new on fleabay.

How is someone able to sell a machine at 600 less than cost? Even the adc discount isn't that high. Are these stolen?

[dubhe]

Aside from speed, the decision for SSD should be based on better resale.

Yes, how much better resale will it attract compared to the additional outlay by the initial purchaser?

[manhattanboy]

I'm definitely thinking that given a fixed budget, it might make sense to go for a RevA with SSD, rather than the newer RevB with a hard drive, since the SSD seems to make such a massive difference.

I would think not!

RevB is under the hood a much better computer even if you can only afford the regular HDD version. The only reason to get the SSD in the long term is that spinning disks (and LCD screens) tend to be the 1st thing to give out as the computer ages. The SSD should hopefully prevent one of those 2 things from being a problem within a couple years time.

Yes, the SSD boots fast and I love that feature because it saves on battery life (shut down versus sleeping).

All-in-all I think there are great PC computers that weigh the same and are capable of the same and cost a lot less. But they are not Macs...

[dubhe]

I bought the Rev.B HDD last night, have only been using it 24 hours, but can say that it is fast; compared to my previous Black MB 2.4 GHz it is faster at loading web pages, displays better graphics with games and of course looks a lot better. The SSD is of course faster, but the HDD can do the job, and if you don't open apps every minute of every day, then I find it hard to justify the additional 25% cost.