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View Full Version : Why is the Palm Pre Making Apple Tremble?


MacBytes
Feb 3, 2009, 07:57 AM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Why is the Palm Pre Making Apple Tremble? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20090203085751)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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pilotError
Feb 3, 2009, 08:13 AM
I'm pretty sure there pissed because they have 2 former Apple employees leading the way.

tbishh
Feb 3, 2009, 08:15 AM
link??


I didn't think they were making Apple tremble. first of all, the Pre is only on Sprint, second, its not full touch screen (meaning it has a keyboard). It does have a better camera. Really, other than that, I haven't been able to find anymore specs than those.

drlunanerd
Feb 3, 2009, 08:16 AM
Argh! I feel like I've been Rickrolled again!
Once again AppleMatters misses the point.

Mackan
Feb 3, 2009, 09:02 AM
link??


I didn't think they were making Apple tremble. first of all, the Pre is only on Sprint, second, its not full touch screen (meaning it has a keyboard). It does have a better camera. Really, other than that, I haven't been able to find anymore specs than those.

Keyboard, better camera with focus support, bluetooth A2DP, USB mass storage, MMS, replaceable battery, etc. Basically, all these good things that Apple of course does not support. Add to that a seemingly compelling OS from what I have seen. Of course this will make Apple feel a bit uncomfortable.

Personally, I've been waiting for something like this... Will be very interesting to see how it goes.

Niiro13
Feb 3, 2009, 09:03 AM
I didn't think they were making Apple tremble. first of all, the Pre is only on Sprint, second, its not full touch screen (meaning it has a keyboard). It does have a better camera. Really, other than that, I haven't been able to find anymore specs than those.

You mean just like how the iPhone is only on AT&T?

But yeah, Apple definitely wins on the software keyboard part, though I'm impartial to a physical keyboard.

sushi
Feb 3, 2009, 09:05 AM
Keyboard, better camera with focus support, bluetooth A2DP, USB mass storage, MMS, replaceable battery, etc. Basically, all these good things that Apple of course does not support. Add to that a seemingly compelling OS from what I have seen. Of course this will make Apple feel a bit uncomfortable.

Personally, I've been waiting for something like this... Will be very interesting to see how it goes.
The Pre is new.

Wait until the next version of the iPhone is released. I am sure there will be many improvements which will keep the iPhone competitive.

plumbingandtech
Feb 3, 2009, 09:16 AM
OH noes!

The html Javascript OS will own all our bases!!!!!

:rolleyes:


Show me a ecstatic palm pre supporter and I will show you a person that simply ignores mobile market realities.

Add to that a seemingly compelling OS from what I have seen. Of course this will make Apple feel a bit uncomfortable.

How in the world in a combo of HTML and javascript compelling when one has a objective c / cocoa touch core animation etc OS out there showing the world what an OS can be.

50 cents will get you a buck says you are not a developer.....


Meh. Palm is dying. The pre just gave it until this time next year before it runs out of money AGAIN.

Oh. and the Pre store?

Sure. Developers are going to build html web "apps" and "sell" them WAY MORE then the app store...

sure...

hankolerd
Feb 3, 2009, 09:26 AM
I haven't read the article yet, but I think alot of the hype is around the web OS, and being able to run multiple applications at a time, much like you would on your everyday computer. I honestly don't see the pre going much further than the first couple weeks of hype that surrounds it. The iPhone already has such a huge base and so many good apps it is hard to see people buying the Pre when they could get an iPhone. Some people really miss the actual keyboard though. It definitely isn't something to just look over like the Blackberry Storm, it has some potential. I think the market is just going to be wrong for it when it comes out.
And I am not saying I would get one over an iPhone, but it is always good to learn from the technology that others make, and see where it leads to. :apple:

manhattanboy
Feb 3, 2009, 09:52 AM
Argh! I feel like I've been Rickrolled again!
Once again AppleMatters misses the point.

Go Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
:p:p:p

gkarris
Feb 3, 2009, 10:26 AM
I read both articles.... LOL...

A $399 Palm based Smartphone on Sprint, yes, Apple and AT&T are soooooo worried.... :rolleyes:

jayducharme
Feb 3, 2009, 10:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Ouch!

Perhaps this will be the ad campaign for the Pre....

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 10:43 AM
This article stinks to high heaven. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why Apple hasn't sued the makers of any of the "thousands" of iPhone clones is because none of them have invaded Apple's patents and trademarks. They haven't sued Palm over the Pre either, so it's premature (so to speak) to suggest that Apple is using lawsuits "as a business model." Have any of Apple's products succeeded because Apple used lawsuits to eliminate or intimidate the competition? If you're going to make this argument, at least one example would seem to be the minimum requirement. The suggestion that Apple was ever "counting on a payoff from Microsoft to keep the company going" is simply erroneous, so that one won't work.

macFanDave
Feb 3, 2009, 11:19 AM
Because Palm has a track record of ripping off Apple's IP.

The Palm Pilot, the company's only success, is a blatant copy of the Newton made with miniaturized parts. The Newton was a little too big and clunky to fit into a shirt or jacket pocket. A few years after the Newton was killed, smaller components became economically viable and the Palm Pilot was born. Apple was too weak at that point to mount a prosecution of Silicon Valley's rising star.

Now that the roles are reversed, Apple is making it clear that they are not going to let those talentless hacks at Palm parasitically suck the genius of Apple for their financial gain. . . again.

gkarris
Feb 3, 2009, 11:27 AM
Because Palm has a track record of ripping off Apple's IP.

The Palm Pilot, the company's only success, is a blatant copy of the Newton made with miniaturized parts. The Newton was a little too big and clunky to fit into a shirt or jacket pocket. A few years after the Newton was killed, smaller components became economically viable and the Palm Pilot was born. Apple was too weak at that point to mount a prosecution of Silicon Valley's rising star.

Now that the roles are reversed, Apple is making it clear that they are not going to let those talentless hacks at Palm parasitically suck the genius of Apple for their financial gain. . . again.

:eek:

oooooh, snap......

:D

liquidtrend
Feb 3, 2009, 11:27 AM
has there ever been a device locked on the sprint network that has made any company tremble? i dont believe i can recall any phone sprint has offered that has made people switch over to the sprint side...

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 11:30 AM
Because Palm has a track record of ripping off Apple's IP.

I don't see it. If Palm had invaded Apple's patents or copyrights, they would have been sued. No company is ever "too weak" to defend their intellectual property, not especially a technology company. IP is their primary asset. This only emphasizes the basic flaw in the argument made in this article that Apple uses lawsuits as "business plan." This may sound like an appealing argument, but there's simply no evidence to support it -- none presented in the article, and very probably none in existence, period.

drlunanerd
Feb 3, 2009, 11:41 AM
Now that the roles are reversed, Apple is making it clear that they are not going to let those talentless hacks at Palm parasitically suck the genius of Apple for their financial gain. . . again.

:eek: you're scaring me

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1050thumb.gif

t0mat0
Feb 3, 2009, 11:41 AM
So where are those >10 million Pal Pre users? Ah, the handset isn't out yet.

Apple's time to release is months, years. So the handset for this year has been in development for a long while (and if it's anything like the 1st handset, it might be in development right up until mass production - not sure if the iPhone 3G was the same ).

liquidtrend
Feb 3, 2009, 12:29 PM
has there ever been a device locked on the sprint network that has made any company tremble? i dont believe i can recall any phone sprint has offered that has made people switch over to the sprint side...

addicted44
Feb 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
No company is ever "too weak" to defend their intellectual property, not especially a technology company. IP is their primary asset.

Actually, that is a claim that is absolutely not based in reality. In fact, patent lawsuits are ALWAYS won by the company that has more money (at least in the US). Which is why MS's threats against Linux were extremely effective, although everyone knew it was BS.

Essentially, it comes down to who has enough money to last the lawsuit. One side is going to get bankrupt, if a lawsuit is fought till the end. Both sides are probably going to lose money (because lawyers charge so much, especially patent lawyers). Most cases are settled, and the smaller company almost always does not get its efforts worth...

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 12:54 PM
Actually, that is a claim that is absolutely not based in reality. In fact, patent lawsuits are ALWAYS won by the company that has more money (at least in the US). Which is why MS's threats against Linux were extremely effective, although everyone knew it was BS.

Essentially, it comes down to who has enough money to last the lawsuit. One side is going to get bankrupt, if a lawsuit is fought till the end. Both sides are probably going to lose money (because lawyers charge so much, especially patent lawyers). Most cases are settled, and the smaller company almost always does not get its efforts worth...

It depends on the facts. Clear violations of IP rights will be settled in favor of a smaller company if the facts clearly dictate. Microsoft has lost some of these suits against much, much smaller companies. Most importantly, the concept that Apple was ever "too weak" to defend its IP is just wrong. Even using your logic that the biggest firm nearly always wins, Apple was far, far bigger than Palm during the mid-90s. If Apple thought they had an IP violation case against Palm, you can be certain that they would have sued them.

ZrSiO4-Zircon
Feb 3, 2009, 03:15 PM
Where was it ever said that Apple said anything specific about the Pre? If I remember right, when a journalist questioned Cook or someone (I forget), he made a general statement, carrying the conversation away from Palm. Is everyone reading way too much into that?

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 03:27 PM
Where was it ever said that Apple said anything specific about the Pre? If I remember right, when a journalist questioned Cook or someone (I forget), he made a general statement, carrying the conversation away from Palm. Is everyone reading way too much into that?

Good point, but I think the remarks were properly taken as a shot across the bow.

zap2
Feb 3, 2009, 03:32 PM
So where are those >10 million Pal Pre users? Ah, the handset isn't out yet.
.

Didn't MS say that about WM before the first iPhone shipped :p

ZrSiO4-Zircon
Feb 3, 2009, 03:36 PM
Good point, but I think the remarks were properly taken as a shot across the bow.

Hmmm... I got the impression when I read the article about that Q&A session, that the journalist was fishing for some comment about Palm, and Cook just avoided it to keep the masses from making a huge fuss over iPhone vs Pre.

But I could be wrong. So many aspects of speech are lost when distilled to text.

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 03:49 PM
You could be right. It's been some time since I read that.

Silencio
Feb 3, 2009, 04:57 PM
Hmmm... I got the impression when I read the article about that Q&A session, that the journalist was fishing for some comment about Palm, and Cook just avoided it to keep the masses from making a huge fuss over iPhone vs Pre.

Judging by the dozens and dozens of articles about how Apple's going to sue Palm, Apple's feeling threatened by Palm, blah blah &c.: Tim Cook got a big fat FAIL if he wanted to avoid saying anything controversial.

But I still say that overzealous, clueless journalists, tech analysts, and anti-Apple fanboys are getting way too worked up about Cook's statement.

LeviG
Feb 3, 2009, 05:21 PM
If apple are trembling its pretty simple why - the palm pre takes most/all of the good points of the iphone and then removes all/most of the bad points of the iphone. Off the top of my head the main three things wrong (which people moan about) with the iphone is cut and paste, single app only and no physical keyboard. They're all covered with the pre and then it does have a very loyal palm following who have been calling/waiting for the new os for years now.

Gleadr
Feb 3, 2009, 05:24 PM
I don't understand why apple would they are already taking the cell phone market. Anyway the pre's software is full of copyright infringements maybe apple will simply sue the competition until they are told they can't manufacture the pre. I guess it's just waiting from here.

elppa
Feb 3, 2009, 05:51 PM
If apple are trembling its pretty simple why - the palm pre takes most/all of the good points of the iphone and then removes all/most of the bad points of the iphone.

Assuming it executes all the good things about the iPhone as well, which is far from certain, but most people seem to be overlooking this important point for now.

I haven't read the article yet, but I think alot of the hype is around the web OS, and being able to run multiple applications at a time, much like you would on your everyday computer.

Except the only “apps” you'll be able to run are webkit views with offline storage. So nothing like a regular computer.

LeviG
Feb 3, 2009, 06:31 PM
Assuming it executes all the good things about the iPhone as well, which is far from certain, but most people seem to be overlooking this important point for now.

From all the video's etc showing it working I would say that there's a very good chance that the os and its features will be well executed. Palm can't afford to release a half hearted effort

elppa
Feb 3, 2009, 07:01 PM
From all the video's etc showing it working I would say that there's a very good chance that the os and its features will be well executed. Palm can't afford to release a half hearted effort

Of course Palm can't really afford to, but that doesn't mean they won't.

IJ Reilly
Feb 3, 2009, 07:42 PM
Of course Palm can't really afford to, but that doesn't mean they won't.

Exactly. I don't want to prejudge Palm's effort, and I actually hope they do good job with this phone. But if anyone is counting on cut and paste and background applications to make it an "iPhone killer," then I think they're living in geekworld, the only place where stuff like this really makes a big difference.

sushi
Feb 3, 2009, 08:35 PM
The Palm Pilot, the company's only success, is a blatant copy of the Newton made with miniaturized parts.
This is not true.

Please quit spouting FUD such as this.

zap2
Feb 3, 2009, 08:56 PM
This is not true.

Please quit spouting FUD such as this.

And while you're very likely right, it be much more useful to give some sources(or explain why)

sushi
Feb 3, 2009, 11:15 PM
And while you're very likely right,
I am. ;)

it be much more useful to give some sources(or explain why)
If I said what I really wanted to say in my original post, I probably would be banned. So please accept this as my short answer.

Palm Pilot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Pilot)

Newton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Newton)

IphoneUser81
Apr 11, 2009, 03:25 PM
Ok so I've been reading a lot of apple fans bashing this new Palm Pre, and I have to interject. Before the iPhone ever came out people(apple fans) were going crazy about the device and it had not even been proven itself. Some might make the argument that "well its the Mac OS and that's proven...", that is not entirely accurate. The iPhone has its own OS(they are dubbing it the iPhone OS now) that required an SDK release for 3rd party developers to create things for it, and lets face it I've owned this iphone since it was first released and it is not without fault. In fact there are times even to this day that I feel like tossing it out of the window of my car on my way home.

My point is that every product out there is always exciting when its new, and there is no reason to steal a new product's thunder because people say or you feel it threatens something you already own... The iPhone has mass appeal and its a success and consequently apple is doing well with it. Palm is suffering, and I think its time for one more chance to prove their worth in the smartphone industry. As a business user I can honestly say that the Palm Pre at first glance answers my problems with the iPhone and lets me keep alot of what I do like about the iPhone(though I probably should have kept my blackberry to begin with but I believed in Apple). Many may say oh they copied they copied! However, if you watch the keynote address on this device you will clearly see that though there are similarities between the iPhone and the Palm Pre the Palm Pre is truely something different and unique. The OS feels like a hybrid of apple/windows/symbian OS wrapped into a neat package. So before you judge I encourage you all to at least watch the keynote address. These guys deserve a chance to save the jobs of thousands of Palm employees... Don't worry the iPhone won't be going anywhere its just healthy competition, and truly I think if anyone should really worry it should be the smartphones in the business sector.

Palm Pre keynote if you are interested:
http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/pre/palm-pre-ces.html