Installuous / IPA problem

[smhjr1]

I have a 16GB iPod Touch 1G, jailbroken.

I am trying to install an IPA through Installuous. Yes, the program is pirated but I have the intention of buying it, I just want to make sure that it does what I need it to before I drop the three dollars. Anyways, the directions say to place the IPA file in Root/User/Library/Download and then go into Installuous to install it, but nothing shows up there.

Any ideas?

[Tallest Skil]

We're not helping you pirate apps. Buy it.

[Quu]

Buy the application. Just because the Developer doesn't have a Trial or a Free cut-down version doesn't entitle you to just STEAL it. Read reviews of the app and decide if its worth buying or not.

[smhjr1]

Alrighty.

For the record, I did Google it and figured out the problem. I'm now the proud owner of Fieldrunners -- purchased from the iTunes store.

[bradenwh]

What the frick does it matter if he tries the app before he buys it?
I think the developer would like for him to try it, if it means he'll buy it.

I wouldn't assume piracy is not a bad thing for developers if it brings in more business then they would get without it. In these cases, at least.

Someone pirates an app, just to try it, with intentions of buying it if they like it. If they don't like it, they delete it. If they don't like it, the developer loses nothing he didn't already have. If the person likes it, then the developer gets a customer he wouldn't have otherwise.

[macdim]

Leave him alone. He BOUGHT the app in the end. AFTER TRYING IT OUT!

Obviously first instincts would be to accuse him of stealing, but see what happened in the end? The developer made a sale he may not have made. Seems like a win-win situation for everyone.

[Quu]

What the frick does it matter if he tries the app before he buys it?
I think the developer would like for him to try it, if it means he'll buy it.

I wouldn't assume piracy is not a bad thing for developers if it brings in more business then they would get without it. In these cases, at least.

Someone pirates an app, just to try it, with intentions of buying it if they like it. If they don't like it, they delete it. If they don't like it, the developer loses nothing he didn't already have. If the person likes it, then the developer gets a customer he wouldn't have otherwise.

Because its not what the Developer wanted. You cant just steal a car off a show room to try it out before deciding if you want it or not. You cant just download a Movie and watch it before deciding to pay or not. If the developer doesn't offer a Trial or a Free version then that is his right. He worked hard on the application and I've personally seen the day that Apps hit Appulous their purchases decrease 50 to 75% and never go back up to their original steady sales amount. Piracy hurts Payware that is already successful.

Leave him alone. He BOUGHT the app in the end. AFTER TRYING IT OUT!

Obviously first instincts would be to accuse him of stealing, but see what happened in the end? The developer made a sale he may not have made. Seems like a win-win situation for everyone.

And all we have to base that on is his own word. For all you know he downloaded the Application and didn't buy it and is just saying that because he doesn't want his forum Alias linked to Piracy when people he knows Google him.

[cjm3113]

Because its not what the Developer wanted. You cant just steal a car off a show room to try it out before deciding if you want it or not. You cant just download a Movie and watch it before deciding to pay or not. If the developer doesn't offer a Trial or a Free version then that is his right. He worked hard on the application and I've personally seen the day that Apps hit Appulous their purchases decrease 50 to 75% and never go back up to their original steady sales amount. Piracy hurts Payware that is already successful.


Do you have any proof to support your claims? I have not seen any numbers with Appulous and the App Store, but I do know that with music, the more it is pirated the better it sells. There have been multiple studies showing that to be true.

Not to mention the fact that no where near 50% of iPhone owners are jailbroken so I'm assuming you completely made up that 50% decrease.

[Quu]

Do you have any proof to support your claims? I have not seen any numbers with Appulous and the App Store, but I do know that with music, the more it is pirated the better it sells. There have been multiple studies showing that to be true.

Not to mention the fact that no where near 50% of iPhone owners are jailbroken so I'm assuming you completely made up that 50% decrease.

And you think 10 million iPhone users buy the same application? Your numbers are all wrong my friend.

I'm a developer and I've seen information first hand from other developers where the Dates at which there app began showing up pirated there sales decreased 50 to 75%. And it also showed that the more the Application Costs ($9 for example) the higher the drop on the date that the Application became pirate material. Even if the application is good quality. I am not at liberty to give out any sales numbers beyond what I have explained here already, but I will give the numbers for an application that I will not mention or the price per unit.

Day of Release: 50 downloads
2 weeks after being a featured item it was making a steady 30 sales per day over a period of 10 days.
The Day it becomes available to the pirate community sales dropped to 14 sales that day and lowered a further 5 from there on out never to recover.

The developer issued an update to the Application that made it connect to a remote server upon running. This enabled the developer to see how many users were running the application it was 7 times as many people who had actually bought the application. And keep in mind these are users who are still opening and running the application (As the IP's keep hitting over and over, Many connections were not unique). These are people who downloaded it and even if you considered that every sale on iTunes was the ones opening the application there was still a huge discrepancy of users, people who are downloading but not buying.

I don't have any proof for the user above except his word and honestly just because you may not agree with not being able to STEAL applications it doesn't simply entitle you to do so, this isn't how the world works and again I might stress that it is up to the developer to decide how to distribute there work and if they don't want to give you a Trial or a Lite / Free version you should live with that and either buy it or don't use it. It would be a real shame if Developers started to band together and added hooks to detect Cydia and simply block there applications from running on any Jail-broken devices wouldn't it? - Because that is exactly what is going to happen and it will eventually come down to 'Jailbreak without 3rd Party Apps or No Jailbreak with Apps'

// EDIT:
Also I jsut want to touch on your point about Music, Piracy only helps bands that aren't doing that well to begin with (Its more of a marketing boost). For already well established artists its detrimental to sales and people who buy are usually purchasing the CD to have something physical and tangible not to mention lossless in quality. When you pirate an iPhone Game your getting the exact same thing as when you Purchase. There is no advantage for the user to then go out and purchase the Application except for perhaps their own guilt.

[cjm3113]

And you think 10 million iPhone users buy the same application? Your numbers are all wrong my friend.

I'm a developer and I've seen information first hand from other developers where the Dates at which there app began showing up pirated there sales decreased 50 to 75%. And it also showed that the more the Application Costs ($9 for example) the higher the drop on the date that the Application became pirate material. Even if the application is good quality. I am not at liberty to give out any sales numbers beyond what I have explained here already, but I will give the numbers for an application that I will not mention or the price per unit.

Day of Release: 50 downloads
2 weeks after being a featured item it was making a steady 30 sales per day over a period of 10 days.
The Day it becomes available to the pirate community sales dropped to 14 sales that day and lowered a further 5 from there on out never to recover.

The developer issued an update to the Application that made it connect to a remote server upon running. This enabled the developer to see how many users were running the application it was 7 times as many people who had actually bought the application. And keep in mind these are users who are still opening and running the application (As the IP's keep hitting over and over, Many connections were not unique). These are people who downloaded it and even if you considered that every sale on iTunes was the ones opening the application there was still a huge discrepancy of users, people who are downloading but not buying.

I don't have any proof for the user above except his word and honestly just because you may not agree with not being able to STEAL applications it doesn't simply entitle you to do so, this isn't how the world works and again I might stress that it is up to the developer to decide how to distribute there work and if they don't want to give you a Trial or a Lite / Free version you should live with that and either buy it or don't use it. It would be a real shame if Developers started to band together and added hooks to detect Cydia and simply block there applications from running on any Jail-broken devices wouldn't it? - Because that is exactly what is going to happen and it will eventually come down to 'Jailbreak without 3rd Party Apps or No Jailbreak with Apps'

First of all, I was at no point defending pirating applications. I don't have Installous or any pirated applications on my phone. I was simply stating a fact that COULD relate. In the music industry, the more a song is downloaded online illegally the better its sales tend to do. The people who download it illegally may end up buying it, show it to other people, put out a good word for it etc.

As I said before I do not know if this is true for the App Store or not, I don't suppose anybody could actually provide those numbers. I would love to see a poll posted in the "iPhone" forum asking "Jailbroken or not?" just to see what the numbers are. There is absolutely no way that anywhere near 50% of iPhone owners are jailbroken, I'd guess less than 25% so to say that a 50-75% decrease in sales is due to piracy (which requires jailbroken) is completely illogical.

[Quu]

First of all, I was at no point defending pirating applications. I don't have Installous or any pirated applications on my phone. I was simply stating a fact that COULD relate. In the music industry, the more a song is downloaded online illegally the better its sales tend to do. The people who download it illegally may end up buying it, show it to other people, put out a good word for it etc.

As I said before I do not know if this is true for the App Store or not, I don't suppose anybody could actually provide those numbers. I would love to see a poll posted in the "iPhone" forum asking "Jailbroken or not?" just to see what the numbers are. There is absolutely no way that anywhere near 50% of iPhone owners are jailbroken, I'd guess less than 25% so to say that a 50-75% decrease in sales is due to piracy (which requires jailbroken) is completely illogical.

Sorry for making it sound like it was you but I get very heated about this very discussion because it directly effects me.

Now I'm not saying 50 or 75% of iPhone app users are pirates. But what I am saying is if your getting 30 sales of an application (Remember 10+ Million iPhones have been sold, not counting iPod Touches) and then that drops on the exact same day as the Application becomes available to Jailbroken users and never recovers but the Applications usage is still exploding out of the gate (based on monitoring by the Developer) it is pretty clear that the Pirating is hurting the sales.

I would say 10% of iPhones are Jailbroken. But we also need to see how many iPhone owners are buying Applications? 30%? that would mean that 10% of those Jailbreakers could be in the same pen as those who have the potential to purchase but don't because they don't have to. And I think that is extremely likely as the ones who go out of there way to Jailbreak are going to be most interested in 3rd party software.

Also I want to make something clear, I have no problem with people Jailbreaking and getting applications that Apple wont allow on there own App Store, I also have no problem with people customising the operating system via Jailbreaking. But I do have a problem with people using it to Steal.

[cjm3113]

Sorry for making it sound like it was you but I get very heated about this very discussion because it directly effects me.

Now I'm not saying 50 or 75% of iPhone app users are pirates. But what I am saying is if your getting 30 sales of an application (Remember 10+ Million iPhones have been sold, not counting iPod Touches) and then that drops on the exact same day as the Application becomes available to Jailbroken users and never recovers but the Applications usage is still exploding out of the gate (based on monitoring by the Developer) it is pretty clear that the Pirating is hurting the sales.

I would say 10% of iPhones are Jailbroken. But we also need to see how many iPhone owners are buying Applications? 30%? that would mean that 10% of those Jailbreakers could be in the same pen as those who are potential to purchase but don't because they don't have to.

Also I want to make something clear, I have no problem with people Jailbreaking and getting applications that Apple wont allow on there own App Store, I also have no problem with people customising the operating system via Jailbreaking. But I do have a problem with people using it to Steal.

The last I saw was something like 300 million downloads from the App Store. According to your estimate of only 30% buying applications that would mean that 3 million people accounted for all of those applications. I do not believe that there are 3 million people with 100+ applications and 7 million people without any more than the stock. I would guess it is much closer to half and half.

Disclaimer: A large portion of those downloads are free applications I know and that could make the numbers pretty messy.

// EDIT:
Also I jsut want to touch on your point about Music, Piracy only helps bands that aren't doing that well to begin with (Its more of a marketing boost). For already well established artists its detrimental to sales and people who buy are usually purchasing the CD to have something physical and tangible not to mention lossless in quality. When you pirate an iPhone Game your getting the exact same thing as when you Purchase. There is no advantage for the user to then go out and purchase the Application except for perhaps their own guilt.

That is exactly the opposite of what happens though. Bands that are small, or not doing well get DESTROYED by piracy. Nobody ever buys their music so they never get off the ground. Successful musicians (Metallica, Kanye West, Red Hot Chili Peppers) are the ones who benefit the most.

You do make a good point though about the tangible aspect of a CD. :)

[Quu]

The last I saw was something like 300 million downloads from the App Store. According to your estimate of only 30% buying applications that would mean that 3 million people accounted for all of those applications. I do not believe that there are 3 million people with 100+ applications and 7 million people without any more than the stock. I would guess it is much closer to half and half.

Disclaimer: A large portion of those downloads are free applications I know and that could make the numbers pretty messy.



That is exactly the opposite of what happens though. Bands that are small, or not doing well get DESTROYED by piracy. Nobody ever buys their music so they never get off the ground. Successful musicians (Metallica, Kanye West, Red Hot Chili Peppers) are the ones who benefit the most.

You do make a good point though about the tangible aspect of a CD. :)

My 30% was followed by a Question Mark. I'm more then willing to admit it is more then that. But you also have to consider that they have sold 10 Million iPhone 3G's that doesn't include the original iPhone or the iPod Touch Gen 1 or the iPod Touch Gen 2. We don't know how many App Store compatible devices are in the Market, 15 Million maybe 17 Million, I don't know.

I reject your Unknown vs. Well Known artists being Destroyed as can be seen by Mininova a well known Torrent site that has given relatively unknown bands overnight success by giving there music away. And looking at bands like Radiohead who had tons and tons of publicity still did not make that much money off there Free release of 'in rainbows' I LOVED that album and even I didn't buy it because they made it available for free and said 'pay what you want' so I did, I paid nothing and still enjoy the album to this day. To show how much good it did them they don't even allow you to get the music for free anymore.

And I'd hardly say it does Kanye West and other well known artists good because you have no frame of reference to how well they would do without Piracy. Lets not forget that there is the RIAA out there chasing down pirates of Kanyes songs which may act as a deterrent to Parents who would otherwise turn a blind eye to there Kids or Teens downloading Music and instead give them the Money to purchase.

There are to many variables to make a logical defence for Piracy, there is not enough statistics there is not enough clean data from which to use as a Control. But with the App Store we have that. We have calling home applications and App Store data, IP Databases and even the websites that track the pirated files and make them available provide download data 'This file has been downloaded 22,452 times' for example.

[cjm3113]

My 30% was followed by a Question Mark. I'm more then willing to admit it is more then that. But you also have to consider that they have sold 10 Million iPhone 3G's that doesn't include the original iPhone or the iPod Touch Gen 1 or the iPod Touch Gen 2. We don't know how many App Store compatible devices are in the Market, 15 Million maybe 17 Million, I don't know.

I reject your Unknown vs. Well Known artists being Destroyed as can be seen by Mininova a well known Torrent site that has given relatively unknown bands overnight success by giving there music away. And looking at bands like Radiohead who had tons and tons of publicity still did not make that much money off there Free release of 'in rainbows' I LOVED that album and even I didn't buy it because they made it available for free and said 'pay what you want' so I did, I paid nothing and still enjoy the album to this day. To show how much good it did them they don't even allow you to get the music for free anymore.

And I'd hardly say it does Kanye West and other well known artists good because you have no frame of reference to how well they would do without Piracy. Lets not forget that there is the RIAA out there chasing down pirates of Kanyes songs which may act as a deterrent to Parents who would otherwise turn a blind eye to there Kids or Teens downloading Music and instead give them the Money to purchase.

There are to many variables to make a logical defence for Piracy, there is not enough statistics there is not enough clean data from which to use as a Control. But with the App Store we have that. We have calling home applications and App Store data, IP Databases and even the websites that track the pirated files and make them available provide download data 'This file has been downloaded 22,452 times' for example.

The difference with musicians (which makes it quite an unfair comparison I will admit) is that the album itself is not where they reap their benefits. Kanye's music gets pirated, he gets extremely popular. People buy tickets to his concerts, his posters, his t-shirts, and tons of other things.

With applications, if you pirate the application there is nothing else for the developer to capitalize on.