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View Full Version : G. Skill 256GB Titan SSD in my MacBook Pro... Thoughts, Benchmarks, Pics, & Ramblings




spaceballl
Feb 4, 2009, 06:26 PM
My apologies if this post turns out to be a bit long winded. I've always wanted an SSD in my Macbook Pro. I bought my machine with a 200GB 7200rpm drive and it is rapidly filling up. So I told myself I wouldn't buy an SSD until I could go UP in capacity and UP in speed and fill that need for under $500. A week ago, I read the reviews here (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/storage/2009/01/20/g-skill-titan-256gb-ssd-review/1), here (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1728/10/g_skill_titan_256gb_2_5_inch_mlc_solid_state_disk/index.html), and here (http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1465), saw the price here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231243), and decided that it was time to take the plunge.

This is the newest G. Skill Titan drive. It actually links two SSDs internally into a RAID 0 configuration. Thatís how it gets the major speed increase over the previous generation product. Most negativity I read about the drive is actually intended for the old device, not this one, I believe.
http://i40.tinypic.com/j0uu8p.jpg
I was at work when the package arrived and I couldn't replace the drive at that point. I was curious, though, about the temperature and noise of an SSD, since this was my first SSD experience. So I left the bare drive on my desk, hooked up power / sata, formatted the drive, and started copying files around. After about 30 minutes of large file copies, the drive felt slightly warm. But by slightly, I really do mean just slightly. I put my ear on it to see if I could hear something. It seemed silent at first, but once I pressed my ear on it, I could hear some sort of noise in there. I dunno... hard to describe... sounded 'electrical' I guess? Definitely not like the spinning of a hard drive. Nearly silent.
http://i42.tinypic.com/w0tidt.jpg
I have the second most recent MacBook Pro. Itís the machine that came out in February 2008. It has the Penryn 2.4ghz (3mb cache) chip in it and 4GB of RAM. Pretty shell aside, the main difference between this machine and the newer one is that I donít have the nvidia chipset, DDR3 memory, and faster frontside bus. The newer nvidia chipset obviously also has a different sata controller. And of course... this Macbook Pro doesnít offer ďeasyĒ access to he drive bay. I'll write up a blog post in the near future and link to it with more pics of the surgery, but I didn't find the swap too difficult. Last time I had to really dig into an Apple laptop was when I put a 7200rpm drive in my iBook G3 700mhz years ago. If youíre comfortable with digging around inside a desktop PC, you can do this. If youíre not, I donít think Iíd recommend it. My plan was to swap the drives and then use the OS X disk utility on the Leopard Install disk to restore from my original drive.

http://i44.tinypic.com/68u8hu.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/25oxlb7.jpg

The drive replacement was a success! I was bit nervous pushing that power button... was worried the machine wouldn't turn back on properly! :p

I wanted to capture a before / after XBENCH disk comparison so last night, I shut down my MBP. I booted it up and ran xbench. Then I shut it down, rebooted, and ran it again, and then i repeated. I wanted to run it 3x to see how the machine scored. I had heard that doing SSD tests could provide a lot of vastly different results for each test so when I ran the SSD tests, I did the same process as above, and ran it 3 times. So the scores you see are an average of 3 runs. And I did not see huge jumps in scores between the same tests. All of the numbers were within 10% of each other.
Old drive:
Disk Test 41.51
Sequential 66.29
Uncached Write 105.08 64.52 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 104.63 59.20 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 30.49 8.92 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 118.06 59.33 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 30.22
Uncached Write 10.08 1.07 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 85.15 27.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 77.70 0.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 116.55 21.63 MB/sec [256K blocks]
New SSD:
Disk Test 66.40
Sequential 73.22
Uncached Write 152.42 93.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 118.80 67.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 28.81 8.43 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 202.35 101.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 60.74
Uncached Write 17.99 1.90 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 143.18 45.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1029.45 7.30 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 431.54 80.07 MB/sec [256K blocks]

So it's definitely not as fast as the Intel drive. Now that being said, it can definitely be debated as to how useful an xbench test really is anyways. Its like those PCMark / SiSoft Sandra tests on PCs. They don't mean that much. Actually, not to get off topic, but man could we really use something like 3DMark on the Mac. I was on the Xbench site and it looks like the last update was in.... 2006!! That was three years ago! Hopefully they can update it. Moving on....

The startup time on this thing is fabulous as well. I timed it 3 times using my iPhone stopwatch application. I started timing it right after the tone ended. I consistently got less than 20 seconds for it to reach a fully booted instance of OS X. I donít have an Apples to Apples comparison here of my previous drive, unfortunately. But two key things that Iíve noticed...

The boot time to get to the main screen in OS X seems to be less than half, if I remember correctly (maybe someone with a similar model can chime in)
Before I put the SSD in, with my old drive, once OS X would boot up, it would still take a while before everything was loaded. Quicksilver had to load, the gmail checker had to load, Mozy had to load, etc. So even though I could click apps, the desktop wasnít fully ďthereĒ if that makes sense. Quicksilver and all those apps are instantly there upon startup now. I mean itís really fascinating to see the difference between the two.


As for Application start times, they are greatly reduced as well. I have over 4000 photos in iPhoto and it would take between 3 and 5 seconds usually to start. The app opens up in less than a second now and within a second, my photos are displayed. I tried to time it but by the time i hit the button on my phone it was loaded. Safari is instant. Firefox is close to instant. Even slow-dog programs like Word and Entourage load faster.

Anyhow, this post wasn't meant to say that this SSD is the best or the worst, just sharing my results. It's not as fast as the Intel, but I can appreciate the gigabytes per dollar. And capacity is important to me - I refused to go down in disk space.

And let's not forget the fringe benefit... Now that I pulled out that 200GB drive from my laptop, now my PS3 has a 200GB drive in it :D

Enjoy! Happy SSDing!



spaceballl
Feb 4, 2009, 06:44 PM
Oh - and an update on free space...
I had 25.27GB left.
Now I have 73.51GB left.
;)

g808
Feb 4, 2009, 08:58 PM
Sweet! Thanks for being the guinea pig.

I have a MBA, but want something snappier. Thinking of getting one of these SSD and putting it into a 2.4GHz unibody MacBook since I still want the smaller size (compared to a 15" MBP).

Thistledown
Feb 4, 2009, 09:01 PM
What's the formatted capacity of the drive? Based on your review and the reviews you linked, I may have to pick one of these up. I was holding out for the Samsung hoping it would hit the $500 mark, but it sounds like it will be more like $800-$1000. The MacBook Pro you have has a 1.5Gbps SATA interface. I wonder if it would bench even higher on the unibodys which have a 3.0Gbps SATA interface.

spaceballl
Feb 4, 2009, 09:24 PM
Sweet! Thanks for being the guinea pig.
My pleasure!
What's the formatted capacity of the drive?
234.4GB
The MacBook Pro you have has a 1.5Gbps SATA interface. I wonder if it would bench even higher on the unibodys which have a 3.0Gbps SATA interface.
I don't doubt that it might bench higher. Considering that I'm not really hitting the 1.5Gbps ceiling, I don't think the fact that the newer has a 3gbps theoretical max will make a difference. But the newer MB/MBPs do have a faster FSB, newer chipset, and DDR3 memory. That faster subsystem might be able to challenge and load up the drive even more. I'd be curious to see as well!

g808
Feb 5, 2009, 02:50 AM
Do you run any VM's? Curious about Windows performance in a VM with this drive.

Lyshen
Feb 5, 2009, 03:20 AM
Spaceballl nice review of the G Skill.

My take of the G Skill is boot/load times are noticeably faster and overall the system is much more responsive.

Up til now I have not noticed any stuttering on OSX or Vista64 (bootcamp).

Overall the G Skill is definitely a nice addition to the laptop. The hurting point of course is the price point, and with time that will drop as SSDs become more and more common and hopefully even better.

@g808:
I have XP32 on VMWare, its pretty fast too, fast of course being subjective. Anything in particular you wanted to know?

Patriks7
Feb 5, 2009, 04:42 AM
Spaceballl nice review of the G Skill.

My take of the G Skill is boot/load times are noticeably faster and overall the system is much more responsive.

Up til now I have not noticed any stuttering on OSX or Vista64 (bootcamp).

Overall the G Skill is definitely a nice addition to the laptop. The hurting point of course is the price point, and with time that will drop as SSDs become more and more common and hopefully even better.

@g808:
I have XP32 on VMWare, its pretty fast too, fast of course being subjective. Anything in particular you wanted to know?

Ignore my post, I just reread the whole post (I only noticed the XP part at the bottom)

bugout
Feb 5, 2009, 07:46 AM
Any possibility of you trying out Bootcamp?

Now that's funny!

louden
Feb 5, 2009, 12:34 PM
New SSD:
Disk Test 66.40
Sequential 73.22
Uncached Write 152.42 93.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 118.80 67.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 28.81 8.43 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 202.35 101.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 60.74
Uncached Write 17.99 1.90 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 143.18 45.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1029.45 7.30 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 431.54 80.07 MB/sec [256K blocks]

So it's definitely not as fast as the Intel drive. Now that being said, it can definitely be debated as to how useful an xbench test really is anyways. Its like those PCMark / SiSoft Sandra tests on PCs. They don't mean that much. Actually, not to get off topic, but man could we really use something like 3DMark on the Mac. I was on the Xbench site and it looks like the last update was in.... 2006!! That was three years ago! Hopefully they can update it. Moving on....


Thanks for running these - even though XBench ratings might not mean much, the transfer rates are still legit and they are an improvement. I think you're not hitting the top end with the SATA 1.5 because their "theoretical limit" is 1.5 Gb/s - doesn't mean that the actual limit on hardware is less. That further makes be think that buying an Intel disk on this type of machine really isn't worth it from a dollar/perf ratio.

So, how long do I wait? I don't think I'll upgrade my laptop until the next chip revision, which doesn't sound like that will happen until Q3/Q4, or next January, so really I should order one now...

louden
Feb 5, 2009, 12:42 PM
Looking at the warranty... If these things to have high failure rates, or perf issues over time, I'd want to make sure I can harp on G.Skill for a year or so.

I see on NewEgg, there's the 30 day replacement policy and I see a two year warranty on the G.Skill site, so it looks like after 30 days, you need to work with the manufacturer...

Seems safe enough...

g808
Feb 5, 2009, 12:48 PM
@Lyshen I specifically wanted to see if anyone with this drive was experiencing the stuttering issue running Windows on a VM or via Bootcamp. Sounds like it works fine for you. Thanks.

louden
Feb 5, 2009, 02:14 PM
Ordered!

Free 3 day shipping on NewEgg... Should get it next Tuesday...

bugout
Feb 5, 2009, 02:23 PM
I'm getting ready to post a comparison of the stock 5400rpm 200gb, stock 7200RPM 200GB, Western Digital 320GB 7200 RPM Scorpio and this GSkill 256GB SSD with lots of benchmarks in both the MBP in my sig and a Santa Rosa 2.2..

You're all going to be quite surprised with the results.. I should have it up within the next couple of hours...

Oh and a dell mini 9 hackintosh with a 32GB SSD just for giggles.

rhyx
Feb 5, 2009, 02:47 PM
Looking at the warranty... If these things to have high failure rates, or perf issues over time, I'd want to make sure I can harp on G.Skill for a year or so.

I see on NewEgg, there's the 30 day replacement policy and I see a two year warranty on the G.Skill site, so it looks like after 30 days, you need to work with the manufacturer...

Seems safe enough...

That's correct. Anyone have experience with G.Skill warranties? I've only used them for memory (RAM).

MBHockey
Feb 5, 2009, 02:59 PM
New SSD:
Disk Test 66.40
Sequential 73.22
Uncached Write 152.42 93.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 118.80 67.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 28.81 8.43 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 202.35 101.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 60.74
Uncached Write 17.99 1.90 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 143.18 45.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1029.45 7.30 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 431.54 80.07 MB/sec [256K blocks]



I agree that xbench isn't the best arbiter of disk speed, but it is somewhat interesting that the 320GB 7200 RPM WD drive I installed in my MBP matches up very well against the SSD:


Disk Test 63.99
Sequential 91.40
Uncached Write 131.76 80.90 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 129.37 73.20 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 46.79 13.69 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 141.39 71.06 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 49.23
Uncached Write 17.53 1.86 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 156.89 50.23 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 90.79 0.64 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 146.88 27.25 MB/sec [256K blocks]

bcaslis
Feb 5, 2009, 03:18 PM
What's most surprising to me on the G.Skill is the random numbers. Here are the numbers from my Apple (Samsung) 128GB SSD:

Disk Test 79.48
Sequential 65.53
Uncached Write 90.69 55.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 48.49 27.44 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 41.63 12.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 186.09 93.53 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 100.99
Uncached Write 50.89 5.39 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 58.76 18.81 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1207.71 8.56 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 474.45 88.04 MB/sec [256K blocks]

I would also agree that xbench isn't the best test. I'm sure that either drive would be more than acceptable in real life. I'm looking for more capacity, but the numbers don't really sway me. I wish there were numbers available on the new Samsung 256GB SSD. It's supposed to be much faster than the previous generations.

spaceballl
Feb 5, 2009, 05:15 PM
Do you run any VM's? Curious about Windows performance in a VM with this drive.
I do - I run Windows 7 Beta, and I run a lot of linux distros for work. I've noticed that they are speedier, like the rest of my system, but I haven't done any formal tests.
Ordered!

Free 3 day shipping on NewEgg... Should get it next Tuesday...
Enjoy, sir!
That's correct. Anyone have experience with G.Skill warranties? I've only used them for memory (RAM).
Nope... Hopefully I never have to find out! :D
I agree that xbench isn't the best arbiter of disk speed, but it is somewhat interesting that the 320GB 7200 RPM WD drive I installed in my MBP matches up very well against the SSD:

Not in the uncached random read - it gets decimated there, and the read performance is what most effects the overall system speed. Accessing random portions of the disk (booting up, booting apps, etc).

MBHockey
Feb 5, 2009, 08:23 PM
Not in the uncached random read - it gets decimated there, and the read performance is what most effects the overall system speed. Accessing random portions of the disk (booting up, booting apps, etc).

Ah I see, I never really knew what the difference was. Thanks for posting the results.

winninganthem
Feb 5, 2009, 09:52 PM
20 seconds? Amazing..

I have a Penryn model and with 2GB RAM it took about 45 seconds to start, with 4GB it takes about a minute.

Damn.. I want an SSD :p

Lyshen
Feb 5, 2009, 11:51 PM
Yeah the boot time is amazing, although most people with Macs seem to put it to sleep mode so that may be moot. I usually shut mine off when I go to sleep, my wife tends to leave her MB on all the time.

Regarding G Skill and RMA, I haven't had any experience in regards to RMAing SSDs *knock on wood*. But I did RMA a set of ram sticks last month and it was a smooth experience. Emailed the RMA form in, next day got a reply email saying where to send the RAM and the RMA number. Got my 'new' ram back in roughly a week from me sending mine in. It was rather easy and hopefully SSDs have the process and smoothness. (One thing though, I live pretty close to their office so shipping times will vary. Their office is in Walnut, CA and I live about an hour away.)

convergent
Feb 6, 2009, 08:35 AM
Do you have any sense for your system running temperature with the old drive vs. this one? I have an early 2008 MBP and it can get pretty hot at times, so I'd not want to do anything that increased its running temp. I had bought a 320G 7200rpm drive to swap for my 250G 5400rpm drive that it came with, but this now has me thinking... looks like a big performance boost.

bugout
Feb 6, 2009, 08:57 AM
ok.. took longer then expected..

I didn't think it was worthy of a new thread since we're talking about the same SSD here..

My main machine is a Early 08 17" 2.5 Penryn Macbook Pro with 4GB Ram and the stock 200GB 7200 RPM Drive

I have a spare machine here that's a Santa Rosa 2.2 with 4GB and the stock 200GB 5400 RPM Drive that's been waiting for a Western Digital 320GB 7200 rpm Scorpio to be put in it and sold on ebay.

The way I tested is I first ran each test (Xbench and quick bench) 3 times after a reboot and took the middle number. The timings were done with my iphone stop watch.

17" 2.5 with stock 200GB 7200 RPM HD (all times in seconds)
Bong to full desktop - 48
safari - google.com home - 3.4
Firefox 3.0.0.6 - google home - 8.6
word 08 - 5.6

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3448/3258251502_f957e1e992_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3395/3258252098_e531973938_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/3257423159_0065e9d8a3_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/3257423197_ae4b281563_o.jpg

Same Machine with the WD Scorpio 320/7200
Bong to full desktop - 37 seconds
safari - google.com home - 2.1 seconds

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3258252274_69c7524b6b_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3456/3257423367_be140bd2af_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3336/3258252424_a13b79c8a6_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3373/3257423503_de8a8bb0c8_o.png


Same Machine with the G.Skill 256GB Titan SSD
Bong to full desktop - 24 seconds
safari - google.com home - instant

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3441/3258315682_4686ee13f7_o.png
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3520/3258315810_1736d542be_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3258315892_a9ff50fb68_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/3258315952_50fbd189cb_o.jpg

Next post will be with the Santa Rosa 2.2

pprior
Feb 6, 2009, 09:02 AM
So thankful for all this data.

Wondering if anyone can do a true multitasking write challenge - run the benchmarks as you're doing and also do a large directory copy (several gigabytes) and maybe export some files from iphoto or something - anything to get multiple write jobs going over an extended time.

When doing so, do you get any system pauses or unresponsiveness? I know the benchmark numbers will not be accurate in that situation, but I oftentimes have multiple exports going on as described and this is where the jmicron based devices are reported to puke all over themselves whereas the intel keeps going.

bugout
Feb 6, 2009, 09:19 AM
I was copying over a 30gb virtual machine from and external FW800 drive (Took 4.5 minutes) while installing office 08 and there were no slowdowns.

Before i was running XP in VMware off the bootcamp partition and there was noticeable slowness/slugishness in all the apps inside the VM.

Now its as if I booted directly from bootcamp. It's literally night and day vm responsiveness. Pretty much everything is instant.

Thistledown
Feb 6, 2009, 10:15 AM
I think more interesting than the benchmarks are the reports of responsiveness of the SSD's. The benchmarks look good, but the raw speed is only twice as fast for something that is about $1.90/GB (SSD) as opposed to $0.20-0.30/GB (HD).

However, the latency I think is where the speed benefits really make the difference -- the instant start up of apps due to not having to wait for the data on the disk to spin under the r/w head.

I really want to buy one, but I'm just not sure if it's enough space for me until the 512GB models come out at the end of this year.

bcaslis
Feb 6, 2009, 11:28 AM
Aside from speed, a benefit to me for an SSD is the complete lack of vibration or noise. If you use it on your laptop in silent conditions alot this is a benefit. If you use it only in a noisy office this probably doesn't matter.

MrZebra
Feb 6, 2009, 12:07 PM
If you use it on your laptop in silent conditions alot this is a benefit.

I hear you; I will buy one of those SSD as the price settles down a bit.

tibi08
Feb 6, 2009, 12:25 PM
Can anyone tell me how this compares to the Intel X-25 Mainstream SSD? I heard this was significantly faster (although, currently smaller in capacity and more expensive).

I can't wait to whack a SSD in my MBP tho.... :D

spaceballl
Feb 6, 2009, 12:36 PM
Do you have any sense for your system running temperature with the old drive vs. this one? I have an early 2008 MBP and it can get pretty hot at times, so I'd not want to do anything that increased its running temp. I had bought a 320G 7200rpm drive to swap for my 250G 5400rpm drive that it came with, but this now has me thinking... looks like a big performance boost.
I will try and get a better sense for system temperature / battery life. I'll repost after I spend some more time with the new machine. Just from using it over the past couple days though, I think temperature seems about the same. It still gets warm in the are near the back of the keyboard / speakers - neither palm rest area seems to get that warm... but like I said, i'll update w/ better results after a few more days.

spaceballl
Feb 6, 2009, 12:37 PM
Can anyone tell me how this compares to the Intel X-25 Mainstream SSD? I heard this was significantly faster (although, currently smaller in capacity and more expensive).

I can't wait to whack a SSD in my MBP tho.... :D
If you read the reviews I link to in my original post, they do comparisons against a lot of other SSDs, including the Intel.

tibi08
Feb 6, 2009, 12:53 PM
If you read the reviews I link to in my original post, they do comparisons against a lot of other SSDs, including the Intel.

Thanks, just looked, it's very impressive. I'd be tempted to buy now, but the technology is progessing as a scarily fast rate!

spaceballl
Feb 6, 2009, 01:19 PM
Thanks, just looked, it's very impressive. I'd be tempted to buy now, but the technology is progessing as a scarily fast rate!
It sure is! I'm sure that in 6 months there will be a new 256GB that is even faster and more power efficient than mine at a lower price than I paid. That's what makes technology so exciting, though, and I had to pull the trigger eventually!

Lyshen
Feb 6, 2009, 06:26 PM
I posted this in the other thread but if anyone is considering getting the Intel X25-M series and plan to use bootcamp... I haven't read a single success story of Intel X25-M SSD + Bootcamp working together.

Just a fyi.

pprior
Feb 6, 2009, 09:20 PM
Ok, you guys have convinced me. i'm ordering one of these bad boys. I'm sure it will be 1/2 the cost in 6 months, but I remember back to my 15K RPM scsi days how responsive those drives were, even with slower transfer speeds than we have now. I gave those up because having 4 of them was like living with a noise making machine running constantly.

My mac pro wasn't in today, it will likely be until middle of next week, so hopefully this will get here and be ready to install.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a drive adaptor that would let me mount this drive into the drive sled on the mac pro for plug and play?

Edit: ordered the maxupgrades adaptor. Looks beefy and should work with any future SSD.

ShortArc
Feb 7, 2009, 10:03 PM
I am having problems with my TITAN 256GB not waking after sleep on my Unibody MBP 2.8GHz. Placing the MBP to sleep by closing the lid works fine but if I leave the lid open and let the drive/computer go to sleep I am forced to reboot the machine. I know Spaceballl and others have not experience this phenomenon. If anyone has any insights or suggestions please let me know. I did try resetting the SMC but no luck. Also reinstalled the OS. I did not re-partition and format the drive anew yet but I don't see how that would make any difference.

nippyjun
Feb 7, 2009, 11:14 PM
I am having problems with my TITAN 256GB not waking after sleep on my Unibody MBP 2.8GHz. Placing the MBP to sleep by closing the lid works fine but if I leave the lid open and let the drive/computer go to sleep I am forced to reboot the machine. I know Spaceballl and others have not experience this phenomenon. If anyone has any insights or suggestions please let me know. I did try resetting the SMC but no luck. Also reinstalled the OS. I did not re-partition and format the drive anew yet but I don't see how that would make any difference.

Maybe they have it set that the drives don't go to sleep. Maybe it's not really needed with SSD's.

ShortArc
Feb 8, 2009, 06:49 AM
Well I swapped the SSD with a Samsung HM500LI having the identical disk image. Sleep mode (including deep sleep) all work fine.
So there is definitely something going on between my MBP and the TITAN SSD. I also did some looking around and there are a bunch of folks who are just having wake problems, like the one I described, not running SSDs. I am clueless for now.

spaceballl
Feb 8, 2009, 06:32 PM
Well I swapped the SSD with a Samsung HM500LI having the identical disk image. Sleep mode (including deep sleep) all work fine.
So there is definitely something going on between my MBP and the TITAN SSD. I also did some looking around and there are a bunch of folks who are just having wake problems, like the one I described, not running SSDs. I am clueless for now.
ShortArc,
Very odd problem you're having. So FYI when I said my computer was going in and out of sleep just fine, it was... but that was in regard to closing the lid and having it wake up again.

However, I just tested it by putting it in and out of sleep mode a few times manually (no lid closing) and that seems to work just fine as well. Very interesting issue you're running into - maybe swap it for a new one before your 30 day warranty runs up?

tubbymac
Feb 8, 2009, 09:54 PM
The only thing worrying about that Titan drive is that it still uses that piece of junk JMicron controller except that it has two of them instead of one. There are complaints on other forums (Anandtech and other hardware sites) of stutter/freeze issues while using this drive.

Also benchmarking on an SSD is misleading when you first get the drive. All MLC drives allow you to do a single write operation to a SSD memory cell the first time it is used. When you first get a drive obviously all the cells are unused and you will get super fast benchmarks. On EVERY subsequent write to a cell that has been written to before all MLC ssd drives require a read operation first, followed by either a write or an erase + write operation. This will significantly reduce performance and benchmarks.

louden
Feb 8, 2009, 10:56 PM
The only thing worrying about that Titan drive is that it still uses that piece of junk JMicron controller except that it has two of them instead of one. There are complaints on other forums (Anandtech and other hardware sites) of stutter/freeze issues while using this drive.

Also benchmarking on an SSD is misleading when you first get the drive. All MLC drives allow you to do a single write operation to a SSD memory cell the first time it is used. When you first get a drive obviously all the cells are unused and you will get super fast benchmarks. On EVERY subsequent write to a cell that has been written to before all MLC ssd drives require a read operation first, followed by either a write or an erase + write operation. This will significantly reduce performance and benchmarks.


I would say this -

Aren't Intel X25-M's, the current darling of SSD perf, also MLC, and also subject to this issue?

Unless you have actual benchmarks showing significant slowing of a specific example drive over time, then you shouldn't make those claims. Has any respected site, like tomshardware, shown this to be the case?

tubbymac
Feb 9, 2009, 02:00 AM
Aren't Intel X25-M's, the current darling of SSD perf, also MLC, and also subject to this issue?

Unless you have actual benchmarks showing significant slowing of a specific example drive over time, then you shouldn't make those claims. Has any respected site, like tomshardware, shown this to be the case?

Yes the Intel drives are affected by the same thing as it's how all MLC drives must operate. The big reputable hardware sites (like Anandtech) do know how the MLC technology actually works and do report this. The honest ones try to fill the entire drive before doing benchmarks so that all or most of the cells have been written to at least once. The less informed or dishonest sites do benchmarks on the first write cycle of the cells, greatly exaggerating the performance numbers.

I do not recommend average users filling the drive before benchmarking though. That's just using up write cycles just for the sake of getting more reasonable numbers that you can already find on the honest hardware sites. No point reducing the lifetime of your SSD drive.

louden
Feb 9, 2009, 03:21 PM
Also benchmarking on an SSD is misleading when you first get the drive. All MLC drives allow you to do a single write operation to a SSD memory cell the first time it is used. When you first get a drive obviously all the cells are unused and you will get super fast benchmarks. On EVERY subsequent write to a cell that has been written to before all MLC ssd drives require a read operation first, followed by either a write or an erase + write operation. This will significantly reduce performance and benchmarks.

Sure, I don't think any of the reviews are hiding the issues there were with single controller SSDs, nor the natural native speed of MLC vs. SLC. The issue is how the drives perform, and how they rate over time. I could care a less if G.Skill "hacked" the titan with two sub-par controllers, as long as they work well (they sure seem to) and as long as they last (that might be a question mark)

So, do us a favor, and post those bad benchmarks to this forum. I looked in other forums and other reviews, and can't find them. I think we need to see benchmarks over someone stating that performance drops in a comment...

UltraNEO*
Feb 9, 2009, 03:36 PM
Thanks for all the info!! It's been a really interesting read.

For me, I'll wait till there's decently sizes in a SLC SSD before I'll consider investing, I think reliability gonna be more important than speed! BTW, It's gotta be a minimum of 500GB!

louden
Feb 9, 2009, 04:21 PM
I paid 494 for mine - and now Newegg is showing 549 with a current $20 discount to 529...

I thought prices of these things were supposed to drop like a rock - not rise. Is the Titan the new SSD X25?

UltraNEO*
Feb 9, 2009, 04:35 PM
I paid 494 for mine - and now Newegg is showing 549 with a current $20 discount to 529...

I thought prices of these things were supposed to drop like a rock - not rise. Is the Titan the new SSD X25?

X25 Mainstream maybe, cause it's based on MLC Technology and from the price point, it's definitely no Extreme.

toolbox
Feb 9, 2009, 04:39 PM
Great job, nice review nice pic's Great stuff. Always interesting to see the macs opened up

tubbymac
Feb 9, 2009, 05:33 PM
Sure, I don't think any of the reviews are hiding the issues there were with single controller SSDs, nor the natural native speed of MLC vs. SLC. The issue is how the drives perform, and how they rate over time. I could care a less if G.Skill "hacked" the titan with two sub-par controllers, as long as they work well (they sure seem to) and as long as they last (that might be a question mark)

So, do us a favor, and post those bad benchmarks to this forum. I looked in other forums and other reviews, and can't find them. I think we need to see benchmarks over someone stating that performance drops in a comment...

I'll do better than that. I'll actually explain how it works so you and everybody who reads this can have a deeper understanding of the main issue, which as you stated above is "how the drives perform, and how they rate over time."

First I don't want to make it sound like I'm trying to rain on anybody's parade here. Great work to the original poster, spaceball, in providing his impressions, reviews, pictures, and benchmarks. Now for the hopefully layman's explanation of the issue.

The first time you write an ssd cell it takes approximately 900 microseconds since only a single write operation is involved. Any subsequent write to that cell requires a read, an erase, and a write (sometimes the read can be skipped depending on how intelligent the ssd controller is at caching, but for simplification I'll ignore that). A read takes 50 microseconds, an erase takes 2000 microseconds, and a write again takes 900 microseconds as before. Add those up and you get 2950 microseconds. So the performance ratio is 2950 divided by 900 = about 3.28. In other words, subsequent writes will be about 3 times as slow as the very first write on an ssd cell.

Note that subsequent reads will be just as fast as the first time though as no matter when you read a cell, you only perform the read operation (no erase or write required).

So roughly expect performance to stay the same for read speed, but to degrade by about 3x when all the cells of an ssd have been written at least once.

See this link here to verify the numbers I used and to understand in greater detail how an SSD works:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3403&p=2

See this link for details of the JMicron stuttering issue when it was first discovered:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3403&p=7

Finally see this thread here for evidence of the stuttering and for verification of my explanation on ssd performance degradation as it pertains to the titan drive in particular:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=83&threadid=2269016&FTVAR_STKEYWORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

spaceballl
Feb 9, 2009, 06:09 PM
tubbymac,

Your point is indeed well taken in regard to how subsequent writes will be slower than the initial write to the SSD. But in real-world use cases, obviously read speed is much faster. The read speed is what gives a computer "the snappy," not the write speed. Write speed is impressive for theoretical benchmarks and surely there are cases where having the fastest write speeds will be highly beneficial, but read speed is the key metric.

In regard to SSD lifespan, you do make a good point there. I guess I just don't really care that much. Computers don't last forever and in my case, I usually sell them on eBay every couple years to raise money to put toward the next one. I'm not a corporation looking to house my data for 12 years on this thing.

Lastly, as for this "stuttering" issue, I have seen no evidence of it on my system. Reading that Anandtech article, it looks like he just found lag when doing certain tasks like typing and opening safari tabs. If there is one thing I have not yet experienced since moving to this new SSD, it's lag. I'll keep my eye open for it though. The thread you linked to on anandtech was a bazillion pages long and I don't care to read through the whole thing. The stuttering issue in the anandtech article, though, was not regarding this drive, it was regarding the previous gen OCZ drive. So even though they both have a jmicron controller in it, they are utilizing them differently as the Titan does some type of RAID 0 inside. I don't think it can be said that those results are 100% relevant to the Titan.

CTechKid
Feb 9, 2009, 06:11 PM
When you make an argument like the one above, you need to give a baseline so the layman can draw his own conclusions. At the end of the day you've outlined an inefficiency with the technology.... but that inefficiency will still amount to the majority of MLC SSDs currently on the market out performing most if not all mechanical drives by a considerable margin. So while I appreciate the lesson in memory dynamics, I'm not quite sure why you look so unfavorably upon the MLC technology given the mechanical drive alternative.

The early adopters in the SSD market aren't ever going to hit the wear and tear wall with their SSD because they'll continue to evolve with the trend and upgrade long before the "5 year" threshold hits. I can understand your dislike for the JMicron controller, and preference for SLC over MLC, however, you're not the only with these preferences. If SLC was affordable, MLC would be an afterthought, sadly not all computer hobbyists are wealthy, so we make do with the gadget and upgrades we can afford. :cool:

louden
Feb 9, 2009, 06:24 PM
First off, I admin I'm not an expert.


See this link here to verify the numbers I used and to understand in greater detail how an SSD works:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3403&p=2


Yep - I read that and I agree, MLC needs to erase and write and it's not the best. I could care less what happens on the inside of the drive, as long as the drive works well as a unit. I want to see benchmarks of some "steady state" performance loss. I've seen none and can't find them anywhere. I don't care how slow the components are, if as a whole, they perform as advertised on day one and day 365.


See this link for details of the JMicron stuttering issue when it was first discovered:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3403&p=7


I read that article too - the problem is, it's over 150 days old! It only references the old "single controller" SSDs. I agree those devices and their single JMicron controller are craptacular. Luckily, we were all smart enough not to spend twice as much money for half the performance a half a year ago. That's not the issue here.


Finally see this thread here for evidence of the stuttering and for verification of my explanation on ssd performance degradation as it pertains to the titan drive in particular:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=83&threadid=2269016&FTVAR_STKEYWORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear
I also read this entire forum post. There are no benchmarks, just an isolated occurrence or two of users having issues on Windows Vista (not Mac OSX). For every complaint (I saw two) there were five users who were ecstatic. Of the two with complaints, one said it was working great after tweaks and "settling down" and the other will return his with an RMA.

Again, it doesn't matter what you or I think - let the numbers speak for themselves. Let's look at someone's posted benchmarks, and see if there is a stuttering and/or steady state problem.

Anandtech will post a review of some of these newer drives this month. Let's see what they say.

bugout
Feb 9, 2009, 06:42 PM
I'm coming up on a week of heavy read and write use in and out of VM's and have not encountered a single stutter.

tubbymac
Feb 9, 2009, 07:15 PM
Good point on reads being the primary indication of snappy performance. Since I explained reads don't suffer from performance degradation, if your usage is mostly reads the read performance should stay close to constant over time.

Also good point on the MLC being not the best but an economical trade off over the much more expensive SLC technology.

As to the links they were pretty long. It wasn't until around the middle of the thread I linked before other people talked about stutters. As louden pointed out it seems to be Windows users and for every person who says they have a stutter/freeze problem you get many more saying they don't have any stuttering at all on the Titan drive.

The drive is still new so that's why a lot of the big sites still haven't done reviews yet. Most people just got the drive at the start of the month. But like I explained, you don't need to wait for a benchmark to know the performance degradation. I calculated the lower bound. Due to the way MLC works you can't write faster than a factor of 3.28 compared to the time it took to write a cell the first time. No benchmark can sneak around this because that's the lower limit on how fast a read, erase, and write operation can occur given the numbers from the Anandtech article. But again this is only write performance - and for most users the read performance is what matters more like spaceball stated.

CTechKid
Feb 9, 2009, 08:34 PM
On a side note, Anandtech has slated a full SSD review and breakdown for February. Lets hope they stick to their schedule! :)

g808
Feb 9, 2009, 08:41 PM
I don't know, or care, so much about numbers. What I do know is that I now have the 256GB SSD in my new 2.4GHz MacBook and it flies! Everything is definitely way snappier. WinXP VM shows a remarkable improvement. Now I need my 4GB of RAM from MacSales to arrive. :)

tubbymac
Feb 9, 2009, 09:09 PM
Well here's a bit of a surprise. If you go to the G.Skill manufacturer web site and then click on the link to their official english support forums, you'll find a post where a customer asks straight up whether the drives and the stuttering have improved over the last 6 months.

The OFFICIAL response by G.Skill (coming straight from the manufacturer just this 5th of February, so it includes the Titan drive) is this bit of broken english:

"MLC SSD stuttering problem is still there but it gets improves."

Kudos to a manufacturer to being honest for once.

louden
Feb 10, 2009, 03:18 PM
Got mine today...

I'm duping the disk with SuperDuper and Winclone (for the bootcamp partition).

I've already got the Windows 7 partition cloned, and am creating the SuperDuper copy right now, while I've got the disk connected via Firewire...

Almost there...

spaceballl
Feb 10, 2009, 04:58 PM
So I just re-read this thread from start to finish. I think the neat thing here, and the thing that really gets me going, is how new and fresh and fun this technology is. It seems like there is so much "unknown" out there now and so many different options. In a year or two all these things will be worked out, these drives will be lightning, and power consumption will be way down. I'm still loving my G. Skill Titan right now, but I'm REALLY excited about the drive that goes in my next macbook!

louden
Feb 10, 2009, 05:28 PM
I'm excited too -

The way I look at it - this is the biggest, slowest, highest power consuming, highest price drive you'll ever buy again.

Here's my Xbench disk results - again - not so awe inspiring as far as XBench results, but pretty good as far as reading and writing (especially reading).


Results 57.05
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.6 (9G55)
Physical RAM 3072 MB
Model MacBookPro2,2
Drive Type G.SKILL TITAN 256GB SSD
Disk Test 57.05
Sequential 72.00
Uncached Write 43.01 26.40 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 191.19 108.18 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 47.39 13.87 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 167.58 84.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 47.23
Uncached Write 14.45 1.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 76.58 24.51 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1980.80 14.04 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 523.91 97.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]


All this makes for a pretty fast machine. It's hard to believe how fast it feels.

ShortArc
Feb 11, 2009, 10:54 AM
How are you guys doing with regards to power consumption?
My TITAN seems to drain the battery faster than my previous HD (500GB Samsung).
This is a subjective remark as I did not do any real testing.

louden
Feb 11, 2009, 10:58 AM
So, I've had this in for a day, and here's some thoughts. FYI - I'm running the late 2006 C2D Merom and this wasn't a fresh install, but was a Superduper and Winclone copy from the old hard drive. One other point - I initially formated the drive while it was in an external firewire adapter.

- My Winclone of my Windows7 bootcamp partition didn't make it. I had upgraded from Vista on the previous drive, and it was working, but it's not supported and wouldn't boot. I haven't been using Windows that much, but do need to for development, and am OK with opting out of bootcamp and using fusion. This wasn't a big deal.

- Heat and running fans. My fans are on quite a bit. They're on while running Fusion (which always was the case) but now they seem to be on much more when the laptop is idling. I'll have more opinion on this later....

- Sleep - Help! I'm a victim of the sleep mode issue. Whenever the laptop goes into sleep, it won't come out unless I do a hard reboot. It worked once for me by selecting "sleep" from the Apple menu, but every other time it needed a hard reboot. One interesting thing - when I do that hard reboot, it looks like it reboots twice - once with just the gong, and then again a couple of seconds later... Very odd.

- Mounting iso images in fusion with Windows 7 (I know - obscure): More beta issues (i think) but when I mounted a couple of ISO images in Windows 7 to install software, the installs would fail because it was failing reading the drives. This might be a x64 vs x86 or iso software issue. I'll look into this a bit further, but this isn't as clean as I'd like, as I did all this on my mac pro without any issues...

Thoughts, advice?

So, what do you think, do I have a lemon? I'd post this to g.skills support forums, but it doesn't look like they have issues with OS X.

spaceballl
Feb 11, 2009, 01:06 PM
I'm not noticing the fans. My computer seems to be about the same, when it comes to heat and fan usage. However, I've noticed that battery life seems to be a bit worse, which is unfortunate. I need to play with it more before I have a really strong opinion on it. I was hoping to either have better battery life... or the same... I've been doing a lot of mozy backups recently, though, so maybe i'm just really hitting the wifi hard... too early to tell.

ShortArc
Feb 11, 2009, 04:46 PM
louden,
I have not been able to resolve my sleep issue. I turn sleep off and just close the lid to put the computer to sleep. That works fine.

spaceballl
Feb 11, 2009, 04:49 PM
I've been thinking... do you both have unibody macbooks? I think you do... therefore, we're using different SATA controllers. Maybe that has something to do w/ it?

ShortArc
Feb 11, 2009, 05:18 PM
I've been thinking... do you both have unibody macbooks? I think you do... therefore, we're using different SATA controllers. Maybe that has something to do w/ it?

Spaceballl,
Yes Unibody. Something else interesting. Sleep mode under Bootcamp XP Pro SP2 seems to work fine. Go figure.

TexasAg
Feb 11, 2009, 07:10 PM
spaceball, I hooked up the titan ssd to the macbook pro, but the system isn't seeing the drive. If I try to boot up using the install disc, the disk utility app doesn't even see a drive attached. Did you have any issues actually plugging the drive into the sata connector inside the macbook case?

spaceballl
Feb 11, 2009, 07:12 PM
spaceball, I hooked up the titan ssd to the macbook pro, but the system isn't seeing the drive. If I try to boot up using the install disc, the disk utility app doesn't even see a drive attached. Did you have any issues actually plugging the drive into the sata connector inside the macbook case?
Nope. What kind of macbook do you have? You may not have slid the drive into place properly. also, did you make sure to remove the drive tray from the previous drive to attach it to the new one?

Niiro13
Feb 11, 2009, 07:15 PM
spaceball, I hooked up the titan ssd to the macbook pro, but the system isn't seeing the drive. If I try to boot up using the install disc, the disk utility app doesn't even see a drive attached. Did you have any issues actually plugging the drive into the sata connector inside the macbook case?

Nope. What kind of macbook do you have? You may not have slid the drive into place properly. also, did you make sure to remove the drive tray from the previous drive to attach it to the new one?

I actually did. What I had to do was use my HDD enclosure (well, more like a disassembled WD Passport) and connect it externally (USB for me, though firewire is faster). I didn't see it as a drive to install Leopard onto, but I checked out Disk Utility and noticed it wasn't partitioned, so I partitioned it, and it worked :).

spaceballl
Feb 11, 2009, 07:19 PM
Yup you need to do that. I thought you were saying it wasn't showing up in disk utility. Oh well glad it's working!

TexasAg
Feb 11, 2009, 07:24 PM
Yup you need to do that. I thought you were saying it wasn't showing up in disk utility. Oh well glad it's working!

I partitioned mine on another computer, and it still isn't showing up. Weird that the macbook works with the standard drive and the ssd drive can be partitioned on another computer. but the macbook can't see or use the ssd.

louden
Feb 12, 2009, 12:50 AM
A bit more follow up -
I don't have a unibody, I have a 2006 Merom C2D.

I was having issues with the disk verification failing. I was able to repair by booting with the setup disk, but I figured I had the backup and superduper clone, so I tried a fresh install of OS X to see if I could get sleep and bootcamp to work.

That didn't work our so well :(
- I keep getting disk verification errors - so that I need to reboot with the setup disk to repair.
- I'm now unable to load several apps. I just get an error as they start up, and a note to ignore, send feedback to Apple, or relaunch.
- Sleep still doesn't work in just about any case.

I think I may have a lemon. I'll conctct g.skill tomorrow to see if that have any advice, but I think I may need to replace this drive from newegg.

I hope I'm having an isolated occurrence :)

spaceballl
Feb 12, 2009, 01:05 AM
I partitioned mine on another computer, and it still isn't showing up. Weird that the macbook works with the standard drive and the ssd drive can be partitioned on another computer. but the macbook can't see or use the ssd.
What do you mean it can't "see" the SSD. Do you mean the partition isn't properly mounting? Or do you mean that it is not listed on the left-hand column in disk manager?
A bit more follow up -
I don't have a unibody, I have a 2006 Merom C2D.
I was having issues with the disk verification failing. I was able to repair by booting with the setup disk, but I figured I had the backup and superduper clone, so I tried a fresh install of OS X to see if I could get sleep and bootcamp to work.

That didn't work our so well :(
- I keep getting disk verification errors - so that I need to reboot with the setup disk to repair.
- I'm now unable to load several apps. I just get an error as they start up, and a note to ignore, send feedback to Apple, or relaunch.
- Sleep still doesn't work in just about any case.

I think I may have a lemon. I'll conctct g.skill tomorrow to see if that have any advice, but I think I may need to replace this drive from newegg.

I hope I'm having an isolated occurrence :)
What are these disk verification errors you speak of? Why did you not recover from the image using disk utility? You could have had some permissions errors w/ Time Machine restore. I've had that before. May not be related to the SSD, but rather a botched restore process. I mean could be the SSD too, I suppose. Let me know!

TexasAg
Feb 12, 2009, 07:15 AM
What do you mean it can't "see" the SSD. Do you mean the partition isn't properly mounting? Or do you mean that it is not listed on the left-hand column in disk manager?

When I plug the ssd drive directly into the sata connector where the old drive used to be, the os x install cd will start the install process. When it gets to the point when you need to select where to install os x, it cannot find the ssd drive, even if the drive has been partitioned. If you select the disk utility application in the menu, it also cannot see the ssd drive. The only drive listed is the optical drive.

I found the answer on the apple support website. Apparently you cannot install os x on an ssd drive connected directly to the sata connector. If you put the ssd drive in an enclosure and hook it up to the macbook using a usb cable, the macbook can see it, and you can install os x on the ssd drive. Once os x is installed, you can hook the ssd drive to the sata connector and everything works fine. It will work from that point on.

Y2JDMBFAN
Feb 12, 2009, 07:45 AM
When I plug the ssd drive directly into the sata connector where the old drive used to be, the os x install cd will start the install process. When it gets to the point when you need to select where to install os x, it cannot find the ssd drive, even if the drive has been partitioned. If you select the disk utility application in the menu, it also cannot see the ssd drive. The only drive listed is the optical drive.

I found the answer on the apple support website. Apparently you cannot install os x on an ssd drive connected directly to the sata connector. If you put the ssd drive in an enclosure and hook it up to the macbook using a usb cable, the macbook can see it, and you can install os x on the ssd drive. Once os x is installed, you can hook the ssd drive to the sata connector and everything works fine. It will work from that point on.

This is totally untrue if you have a unibody Macbook Pro...I have my Gskill hooked directly to the SATA connector and it works fine.

pprior
Feb 12, 2009, 07:47 AM
...I found the answer on the apple support website. Apparently you cannot install os x on an ssd drive connected directly to the sata connector. If you put the ssd drive in an enclosure and hook it up to the macbook using a usb cable, the macbook can see it, and you can install os x on the ssd drive. Once os x is installed, you can hook the ssd drive to the sata connector and everything works fine. It will work from that point on.

!! Can you link that document?

I don't understand why you couldn't install ox x directly to an SSD - it's just another hard drive to the system, right?

Is this just in mac laptops (I will be installing into mac pro tonight) or is it an leopard issue?

TexasAg
Feb 12, 2009, 08:09 AM
This is totally untrue if you have a unibody Macbook Pro...I have my Gskill hooked directly to the SATA connector and it works fine.

Let's be clear on what I am saying - I plugged a partitioned ssd drive directly into the sata connector and tried a clean install of os x on the drive. It didn't work. The os x install app could not find the ssd drive - it just continuously searched for a location to install os x. The disk utility app could not find the ssd drive - it just found the optical drive.

I installed os x on the ssd drive by plugging the ssd drive into a usb port using an external enclosure. The os x install app cound find the ssd drive when it was hooked up that way. Once os x was installed on the ssd drive, I could connect the ssd drive to the sata connector, and it booted fine.

I'm not saying the ssd drive can't be hooked up to the sata connector. I'm just saying I couldn't do a clean install of os x to the ssd drive when it was hooked up to the sata connector.

This is for my new 15" unibody macbook pro.

!! Can you link that document?

I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here it is. It was a discussion on the apple support forum.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8898487&

Again, this would appear to affect only people attempting a clean install of os x onto an ssd drive already plugged into the sata connector (and possibly only if the ssd drive has never had os x installed on it before). It would not affect people who install os x onto the ssd drive over usb, or people who clone their current drive onto the ssd drive before installing the ssd drive. Spaceball plugged his ssd into the computer by usb first, so it wouldn't have affected him.

spaceballl
Feb 12, 2009, 10:58 AM
This is totally untrue if you have a unibody Macbook Pro...I have my Gskill hooked directly to the SATA connector and it works fine.
Totally untrue if you have a pre-unibody mac as well. I deleted any partitions I had on my SSD before putting it inside my mac. Then I used disk utility on the startup disk to format it properly.

pprior
Feb 12, 2009, 11:01 AM
Thanks Texas - I will attempt to verify this tonight as I will be picking up my new system and will install the SSD and then attempt to install a new OS system without doing anything else first.

Y2JDMBFAN
Feb 12, 2009, 11:06 AM
Let's be clear on what I am saying - I plugged a partitioned ssd drive directly into the sata connector and tried a clean install of os x on the drive. It didn't work. The os x install app could not find the ssd drive - it just continuously searched for a location to install os x. The disk utility app could not find the ssd drive - it just found the optical drive.

I installed os x on the ssd drive by plugging the ssd drive into a usb port using an external enclosure. The os x install app cound find the ssd drive when it was hooked up that way. Once os x was installed on the ssd drive, I could connect the ssd drive to the sata connector, and it booted fine.

I'm not saying the ssd drive can't be hooked up to the sata connector. I'm just saying I couldn't do a clean install of os x to the ssd drive when it was hooked up to the sata connector.

This is for my new 15" unibody macbook pro.



I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here it is. It was a discussion on the apple support forum.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8898487&

Again, this would appear to affect only people attempting a clean install of os x onto an ssd drive already plugged into the sata connector (and possibly only if the ssd drive has never had os x installed on it before). It would not affect people who install os x onto the ssd drive over usb, or people who clone their current drive onto the ssd drive before installing the ssd drive. Spaceball plugged his ssd into the computer by usb first, so it wouldn't have affected him.


I took my blank 256GB Titan fresh out of the box, hooked it to my unibody Macbook Pro, put in the OS Install discs, booted from that and partitioned and installed right to the new drive. You may have a defective Macbook Pro or drive. Make sure you partition the drive with disk utility before you try to install.

Y2J

louden
Feb 12, 2009, 11:24 AM
What are these disk verification errors you speak of? Why did you not recover from the image using disk utility? You could have had some permissions errors w/ Time Machine restore. I've had that before. May not be related to the SSD, but rather a botched restore process. I mean could be the SSD too, I suppose. Let me know!

So I'm looking at this again a bit - When I do a verify disk, I've had issues with the "Checking Catalog file" three times and had to repair using the install dvd to boot.

The machine is incredibly fast with the disk - it's just the stability. I'm going to erase the disk, and try a fresh install again. I'll let you all know how it goes. If it's unstable again, I think I'll RMA and try again with a fresh disk.

TexasAg
Feb 12, 2009, 12:46 PM
I took my blank 256GB Titan fresh out of the box, hooked it to my unibody Macbook Pro, put in the OS Install discs, booted from that and partitioned and installed right to the new drive. You may have a defective Macbook Pro or drive. Make sure you partition the drive with disk utility before you try to install.

Y2J


I took the ssd drive out of the box, hooked it up to the sata connector of my new macbook pro where the factory hard drive had been, and the macbook pro could not recognize the ssd drive. I realized then I hadn't partitioned it, but I was shocked when the disk utility app couldn't see the ssd drive. So I took the ssd drive out and partitoned the drive on a different mac computer, but the macbook pro still could not recognize the ssd drive. So I tried partitioning it again on the other computer, still nothing. The new macbook pro could not see the ssd drive no matter what, as long as the ssd drive was hooked up to the sata connector.

It wasn't until I hooked up the ssd drive to the usb port that the install software could see the ssd drive.

By the way, when you say you "hooked it to my unibody Macbook Pro", you are saying you connected the ssd drive directly to the sata connector where your old drive was, right? And you didn't do anything else to the drive besides hook it up, right?

The link I provided shows this isn't a unique problem. I'm not sure why it was doing it. All I know is that I had to use the usb to get it working. Now that it is working, I'm a happy camper.

nippyjun
Feb 12, 2009, 01:14 PM
On the link to the apple support forum that was referenced above there is a post:

"Extended Hard Drive Preparation

1. Open Disk Utility in your Utilities folder. If you need to reformat your startup volume, then you must boot from your OS X Installer Disc. After the installer loads select your language and click on the Continue button. When the menu bar appears select Disk Utility from the Installer menu (Utilities menu for Tiger or Leopard.)

2. After DU loads select your hard drive (this is the entry with the mfgr.'s ID and size) from the left side list. Note the SMART status of the drive in DU's status area. If it does not say "Verified" then the drive is failing or has failed and will need replacing. SMART info will not be reported on external drives. Otherwise, click on the Partition tab in the DU main window.

3. Set the number of partitions from the drop down menu (use 1 partition unless you wish to make more.) Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Options button, set the partition scheme to GUID (only required for Intel Macs) then click on the OK button. Click on the Partition button and wait until the process has completed.

4. Select the volume you just created (this is the sub-entry under the drive entry) from the left side list. Click on the Erase tab in the DU main window.

5. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Options button, check the button for Zero Data and click on OK to return to the Erase window.

6. Click on the Erase button. The format process can take up to several hours depending upon the drive size."


Are Step 4-6 necessary on a new drive?

louden
Feb 12, 2009, 01:18 PM
4. Select the volume you just created (this is the sub-entry under the drive entry) from the left side list. Click on the Erase tab in the DU main window.

5. Set the format type to Mac OS Extended (Journaled.) Click on the Options button, check the button for Zero Data and click on OK to return to the Erase window.

6. Click on the Erase button. The format process can take up to several hours depending upon the drive size.[/SIZE]"


Are Step 4-6 necessary on a new drive?


They shouldn't be - but I'm trying it, as I've had some issues with the drive. I'm zeroing out the data (and can then run a perf test so we can compare new to ready-state perf). It looks like those who haven't had any issues with the disk can just partition and go...

pprior
Feb 12, 2009, 11:00 PM
I am having same problem on my mac pro.

Installed the Titan SSD. Booted from OS DVD, got to disk utility and the SSD would not show up at all.

Booted into hard drive OS install and then ran disk utility and the SSD was then available. I created a partition (journaled, GUID) and now see that partition in the OS and can command-I and get info from finder.

However if I reboot from the OS DVD to try and do a clean install, I still can't pick the SSD from the selector, nor can I see it from the disk utility again.

Argh....

edit: Update - when I boot from CD and run system profiler, the system partition type under SATA shows "unknown" on the SSD, despite having run it as GUID before. Investigating further.....

pprior
Feb 13, 2009, 07:03 AM
I was unable to get the Titan SSD to appear in disk utility or in the leopard install disk selection. The only way I was able to make it work was to boot to the hard disk install of leopard and then access disk utility.

I eventually cloned my clean install of leopard to hte SSD using super duper and now it boots just fine. I have no idea why it will not work without this workaround but I would not recommend this product unless you have the ability to boot from another hard disk and then clone as I mentioned.

Boot is not a huge speed difference on my mac pro. With a clean install my hard disk boot is about 25 seconds and with this SSD it's about 18 seconds. That's a big percentage boost, but doesn't seem as big as I had thought.

Apps however do seem to open much more "snappy". More impressions with further use.

Running Aja (a disk speed test for high end video editing) I got the following:


File Size Sweep
MB MB/sec
Read Write
128.0 201.7 150.7
256.0 220.4 154.7
512.0 217.2 154.9
1024.0 220.2 155.3
2048.0 182.6 64.2
4096.0 212.5 71.3

bugout
Feb 13, 2009, 07:34 AM
I have the 2.5 early 08 MBP and had no such issue..

I just dropped it in an ran my 10.5.6 retail dvd image from a firewire drive. Showed up in disk utility, partitioned and formatted, and no issues.

louden
Feb 13, 2009, 12:27 PM
FYI - I'm replacing mine as a lemon... Hopefully, it's an isolated occurrence.

I think I might also blame my disc caddy (I've got an OWC Firewire 800). As I look back on this, every time I moved over a big file via Firewire 800 to this drive, something went wrong and the disk became corrupted.

So, I'm not sure if it was the caddy, or the disk.

At any rate, after a copy of a VM over, I had disk errors during "verify disk"... It noted the number of directories was off, tried three times to repair, then failed. OS X then failed to find the drive at all after that. This occurred when hooked up via SATA internally, or via Firewire 400 or 800 externally.

The whole experience seemed way too fragile, so I've sent it back to Newegg for a replacement. Again, I'm hoping this was an isolated occurrence, and the replacement will work just fine...

FYI - for all of you who are working swimmingly, when you do a verify disk, do you have any issues?

I'll post back in a week or so. Going back to my old spinning disk drive is no fun. I miss the snappiness.

tibi08
Feb 13, 2009, 12:54 PM
I'm surprised how many have gone for the G.Skill 256 rather than the the Intel 160 :eek::D

TexasAg
Feb 13, 2009, 12:57 PM
I'm surprised how many have gone for the G.Skill 256 rather than the the Intel 160 :eek::D

$200 more for nearly 40% less space. I'll take the titan.

The titan ssd may not be as blazingly fast as the intel, but I won't fill up the titan, and the incremental increase in speed of the intel over the titan is nothing compared to the increase in speed of the titan over the factory hard drive.

pprior
Feb 13, 2009, 01:01 PM
Verify disk gave no errors here.

spaceballl
Feb 13, 2009, 02:11 PM
My verify disk is fine. It seems like most people are incurring issues when using an external enclosure with this disk.

Seems like the best way to do this is to pull out your old, working drive. Pop in the unformatted drive. Boot up w/ the Leopard DVD and go to the disk utility. Format the new drive. Do a restore from the old drive (hooked up externally) to the new drive internally.

I did this and i have had ZERO problems. This has been nothing but a butter-like experience for me. The only thing i'm not liking is that in limited testing, it does appear that my battery is draining at a faster rate. For a guy who spends a lot of time on airplanes, this isn't something I'm very happy about. Oh well. I guess I'll just be reading more books haha. I'm still amazed at how fast it is when I restart my computer.

$200 more for nearly 40% less space. I'll take the titan.
The titan ssd may not be as blazingly fast as the intel, but I won't fill up the titan, and the incremental increase in speed of the intel over the titan is nothing compared to the increase in speed of the titan over the factory hard drive.
Yup I'm with you. I had a 200 gig hard drive that was nearly full. Moving to the intel drive would have forced me to move files OFF the drive whereas moving to the titan would let me keep everything.

louden
Feb 13, 2009, 02:25 PM
Seems like the best way to do this is to pull out your old, working drive. Pop in the unformatted drive. Boot up w/ the Leopard DVD and go to the disk utility. Format the new drive. Do a restore from the old drive (hooked up externally) to the new drive internally.


I'll try it that way with the replacement... If it was the external enclosure, I hope the manufacturers of both products monitor these boards to understand the issue...

Did anyone try using Super Duper? or have any problems with it?

Another question - when you did the new install and restore from the old hard drive, did you apply all the updates to the mac first? Or was that even an option if you installed from an old disk at the end of setup?

spaceballl
Feb 13, 2009, 02:27 PM
I'll try it that way with the replacement... If it was the external enclosure, I hope the manufacturers of both products monitor these boards to understand the issue...

Did anyone try using Super Duper? or have any problems with it?

Another question - when you did the new install and restore from the old hard drive, did you apply all the updates to the mac first? Or was that even an option if you installed from an old disk at the end of setup?
I initially tried superduper and it crapped out. I read on some other forum that people had an issue w/ that too. When I did a restore from the old drive, I'm not talking about using the actual Leopard installation, I'm just talking about using the disk utility restore. So it shouldn't matter when you apply any updates.

goodmove
Feb 13, 2009, 02:30 PM
I bought the SDD with the external enclosure combo. Hooked up SSD to the USB port. Ran Disk Utility (Selected 1 Partition) and then restored from my original HDD (Still in the Unibody MBP). Then I just took the SSD and replaced the HDD and it has been working flawlessly, except, the first time I booted, when I had several applications freeze, including Safari and could not shut down from the Apple menu. Once I restarted, it was blazing fast and had no problems since...

pprior
Feb 13, 2009, 04:32 PM
If my computer goes to sleep then when it awakens it will hang with spinning beach ball. Requires hard restart. Running fine otherwise at this point.

I wonder if I have a dud, or whether there are still bugs with this product.

g808
Feb 13, 2009, 06:36 PM
Seems like the best way to do this is to pull out your old, working drive. Pop in the unformatted drive. Boot up w/ the Leopard DVD and go to the disk utility. Format the new drive. Do a restore from the old drive (hooked up externally) to the new drive internally.


I did a similar process and am seeing no issues (knock on wood) after about a week. I'm coming from a MBA rev A to a MacBook with the Titan SSD. I cloned my MBA drive to an external disk via CCC. I swapped the new MacBook drive with the Titan, ran the Leopard install disk, launched Disk Utility, formatted the Titan, installed Leopard and used the Migration Assistant to transfer data from my MBA drive to the Titan SSD.

Also, just got my 4GB of RAM from MacSales and this thing flies!

echelon234
Feb 15, 2009, 10:32 AM
I think I've found an SSD better than the Titan :) just installed the Corsair 128GB SSD in my MBP. It's running great! See http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7111733#post7111733 for my benchmarks

I get 113 on x-bench compared to people getting ~75 HD score using the Titan

tibi08
Feb 15, 2009, 04:21 PM
Anyone got any more thoughts on battery life / heat issues with the Titan? Am just about to order....

ShortArc
Feb 15, 2009, 08:45 PM
Anyone got any more thoughts on battery life / heat issues with the Titan? Am just about to order....

Overall I think it is a great drive for the money. I have not noticed any heat issues but since shorter battery life (I would guess 20% less) means higher current draw which means heat it all falls into place.

nippyjun
Feb 15, 2009, 08:55 PM
Is the shorter battery life going to be an issue with all ssd's or particular to the current crop of ssd's?

tibi08
Feb 16, 2009, 01:22 AM
Is the shorter battery life going to be an issue with all ssd's or particular to the current crop of ssd's?

Of course the SSD technology is going to improve. What else would you expect? :rolleyes:

tibi08
Feb 16, 2009, 01:29 AM
Anandtech reckon that the X25-M has an idle power consumption of 0.06W, and that this is similar to other SSD drives. I can't actually find the quoted idle power consumption of the Titan - anyone able to confirm from the product manual?

If true this is far lower than a conventional hard drive and I can't understand a result of 20% less battery life - unless perhaps it uses a lot of power when read/writing. Even so, a 20% impact on battery life - you'd have to be doing a lot of reading/writing?!

louden
Feb 16, 2009, 02:26 AM
I'll say the Titan runs warm - kind of like a 7200 RPM drive, but overly so. I'd also think that future drives would do a better job on power consumption.

I just checked newegg- the price went up again. It's now $549. I think the price is going in the wrong direction...

spaceballl
Feb 19, 2009, 06:37 PM
Been MIA for a week or so and I haven't had a chance to post!

Anyone got any more thoughts on battery life / heat issues with the Titan? Am just about to order....
I've now had the Titan for a few weeks. The battery life seems to be about ten to twenty percent worse.
Is the shorter battery life going to be an issue with all ssd's or particular to the current crop of ssd's?
Should just be the earlier batch. Theoretically, it should take a lot less power to run these than a mechanical hard drive. The power optimization on these drives isn't yet that great.
I can't actually find the quoted idle power consumption of the Titan - anyone able to confirm from the product manual
Not listed! I'm thinking G. Skill figured this wouldn't be that good of a number so they didn't print it. Shady...
I'll say the Titan runs warm - kind of like a 7200 RPM drive, but overly so. I'd also think that future drives would do a better job on power consumption.

Yup i'd say your heat estimate is about accurate.

be300test
Feb 19, 2009, 07:04 PM
the power consumption on the titan is 1.8w

not the most power hungry, apex consumes 2w

the corsair i use now is .48w

i measured the titan on a desktop with an amp-meter.

spaceballl
Feb 19, 2009, 07:25 PM
Nice! Looks like the corsair is a great product! I just wish it came in 256GB and were a bit more economical. Hopefully in a year I can get a 256GB SSD that's faster than my Titan and consumes half the power of your Corsair :D

louden
Feb 19, 2009, 09:16 PM
I'm still waiting for my RMA replacement from Newegg... They have my old drive, just seems to take three or four days to send a replacement. Hopefully it will be pushed out tomorrow...

The way I see it - in a year, you'll be able to buy a SSD with perf numbers that blow away SATA 3.0Gb/s for half the price we're paying for the Titan today.

Think about it - by the time the 3rd quarter rolls around, the controller issue will be solved, and that will really drive down prices...

Any bet takers?

pprior
Feb 19, 2009, 11:01 PM
Please post experience. I'm still unable to get my computer to sleep without locking up and G.Skill have been responsive by email but basically have said if it doesn't work with the mac then they won't support it.

(see their reply to my review at newegg: they recommend windows only - not very encouraging.)

I continue to be impressed with performance, but this bug is concerning and I hope G.SKill will step up and support the product, replacing it with a model that does support Mac if needed. Will report back how they resolve it.

NightSailor
Feb 20, 2009, 04:37 PM
I was holding out for the Samsung hoping it would hit the $500 mark, but it sounds like it will be more like $800-$1000. The MacBook Pro you have has a 1.5Gbps SATA interface. I wonder if it would bench even higher on the unibodys which have a 3.0Gbps SATA interface.

I think the Samsung 256GB drives will be below $700 within a month or two. I recommend waiting.

spaceballl
Feb 20, 2009, 04:54 PM
I think the Samsung 256GB drives will be below $700 within a month or two. I recommend waiting.
$700 is still too rich for my blood

be300test
Feb 20, 2009, 08:11 PM
$700 is still too rich for my blood


wayyy to rich for my blood :P

nippyjun
Feb 20, 2009, 10:26 PM
There is a way to get the samsung drive cheaper, but it takes some work. Aparently Dell is using the samsungs in their laptops if you customize them with the 256 ssd option. It only adds $400 to the price. You can build a 13 inch laptop for about $1145 after 20% of that they are currently running, including shipping, tax, and the ssd. You can then swap the ssd with a regular drive for $80 and then sell the laptop. You would have invested $1225 total. If you could sell the new laptop for $700 which should be very easy. The ssd would only effectively cost you $525 (or more or less depending on how much you sold the laptop for.

Something to think about...

steffi
Feb 21, 2009, 10:25 AM
Your SATA docking cable. Is that one of the ones off ebay or from OWC?

ShortArc,
Very odd problem you're having. So FYI when I said my computer was going in and out of sleep just fine, it was... but that was in regard to closing the lid and having it wake up again.

However, I just tested it by putting it in and out of sleep mode a few times manually (no lid closing) and that seems to work just fine as well. Very interesting issue you're running into - maybe swap it for a new one before your 30 day warranty runs up?

bugout
Feb 21, 2009, 11:51 AM
I dont have the sleep issue at all..

I am using smartsleep (http://www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html) though.. I don't know if that makes a difference.

louden
Feb 21, 2009, 03:36 PM
Seems like the best way to do this is to pull out your old, working drive. Pop in the unformatted drive. Boot up w/ the Leopard DVD and go to the disk utility. Format the new drive. Do a restore from the old drive (hooked up externally) to the new drive internally.


My replacement is on the way - but I have a question on this approach -

Why bother booting from the install DVD? Why not take out the old drive, put in the new, then boot up by the old drive via firewire? That would save the hassle of booting the install dvd (and avoid using the 10.5.1 release of mac os compared to the more recent 10.5.6). Can you not use restore off a running image?

darkcurse
Feb 22, 2009, 12:33 AM
Just a thought for those of you with sleep issues. Is the "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep whenever possible" option checked?

pprior
Feb 22, 2009, 08:12 AM
Just a thought for those of you with sleep issues. Is the "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep whenever possible" option checked?

I don't, and I have the "sleep" slider on never so drives never get put to sleep that wayl

darkcurse
Feb 23, 2009, 07:17 AM
Try checking it and see whether it helps.

ShortArc
Feb 23, 2009, 02:54 PM
Just a thought for those of you with sleep issues. Is the "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep whenever possible" option checked?

Makes no difference...

spaceballl
Feb 24, 2009, 10:27 AM
My replacement is on the way - but I have a question on this approach -

Why bother booting from the install DVD? Why not take out the old drive, put in the new, then boot up by the old drive via firewire? That would save the hassle of booting the install dvd (and avoid using the 10.5.1 release of mac os compared to the more recent 10.5.6). Can you not use restore off a running image?
Keep in mind that by booting off the install DVD, and going to disk utility, you don't actually install anything from the OS, so you don't need to worry about the version of OS X. You just use disk utility to clone the drive. Plus, I am thinking it should be a faster copy this way since you're not booting off the drive you're cloning, but that's just speculation. Anyhow, your way should work too. This is just the way that worked for me hassle free. It's been about a month now and I'm still liking my SSD purchase and I haven't had any issues.... (except for the worse battery life)

harry454
Feb 24, 2009, 12:18 PM
Hmm, I might have to invest in one of these

BanditoB
Feb 24, 2009, 03:49 PM
Just wanted to leave a quick post to let everyone know how my Titan's been working out.

I simply dropped mine into my MB Pro (see signature below for details) and then booted off the original 10.5.1 Install DVD. I used Disk Utility to partition and then format (Apple says erase) the drive. Once this was complete, I simply did a restore from my Time Capsule via Time Machine and I was ready to go.

I have had no issues with OS X whatsoever and love the snappiness and response of the system.

I previously used--and still do--a Black MacBook mid 2007 machine with an original OCZ Core series 128 GB SSD drive, so I'm used to a very responsive system. I also had no issues under OS X on the MB, but did notice an occasional stall when running Windows XP in a Parallels Desktop VM.

On the MB Pro, I have seen some definite slowdowns on the Titan when in Windows XP under Parallels, but am not sure if it's an SSD issue or not as Windows was acting up on my spinning hard drive, too, before I installed the Titan. I'm getting ready to do a fresh VM on the Titan to see if that addresses the issue. Just an FYI, if Windows stalls, the whole machine, including OS X will stall. I have only experienced these stalls when Windows XP is running. Without the VM running I have had no such stalls.

So far, I've been running with the Titan for just under a month now and am very happy with it. My MB Pro is definitely significantly cooler with the Titan than the spinning hard drive. It is my main work machine and is on for a minimum of 10 hours a day and it only gets slightly warm to the touch over the drive area on the palm rest. Really, just enough warmth to register a temperature difference.

As far as battery run times, I haven't really noticed much of a difference, but I don't run on battery very often. I would tend to think that the battery's run time being reduced is more related to the processor being able to do more work in less time because it's being supplied data at a considerably faster rate rather than any actual increase in power consumption by the SSD; however, that's just my opinion based on what I've read so far regarding this issue.

Finally, here are some performance numbers from Xbench:

Before - 7200 rpm Seagate 320 GB Spinning Hard Drive

System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.6 (9G55)
Physical RAM 4096 MB
Model MacBookPro5,1
Drive Type ST9320421AS

Disk Test 50.91
Sequential 105.72
Uncached Write 97.29 59.73 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 127.79 72.30 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 76.50 22.39 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 150.16 75.47 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 33.53
Uncached Write 10.60 1.12 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 141.99 45.45 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 89.04 0.63 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 148.93 27.64 MB/sec [256K blocks]

After - G.SKILL Titan 256GB SSD

System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.6 (9G55)
Physical RAM 4096 MB
Model MacBookPro5,1
Drive Type G.SKILL TITAN 256GB SSD

Disk Test 77.13
Sequential 98.59
Uncached Write 200.65 123.19 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 164.04 92.81 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 38.53 11.28 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 282.71 142.09 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 63.35
Uncached Write 18.05 1.91 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 176.44 56.49 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1460.65 10.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 717.17 133.08 MB/sec [256K blocks]

As you can see, that's just a bit more than a 50% speed increase! :)

bbadalucco
Feb 24, 2009, 07:19 PM
I have one question with this driver prior to purchase. I like to boot directly into Vista 64bit when i want to play some light gaming. I've heard this SSD has problems doing so, does any have any experience with this or know if its true?

Thanks

bbadalucco
Feb 24, 2009, 07:26 PM
I meant drive...or SSD not driver.

Sorry

louden
Feb 25, 2009, 03:10 PM
OK, I just got my replacement today... Took long enough.

I'll change the disk out as described on this thread (insert the drive and restore via setup disk) and let you know how it goes.

I'm going to set it up with Bootcamp to start. That sounds like I'm babying the drive a bit, but meh, it will get better over time.

Wish me luck! I'll write up a newegg review no matter what this says.

louden
Feb 25, 2009, 05:10 PM
It's in...

- It's Working! (Well)
- It sleeps!
- It's fast!

MDS and MDSWorker are cranking on my processor right now, so I'll run benchmarks once the thing settles down a bit.

I think I'll keep it.

Could the caddys be to blame in some way?

pprior
Feb 25, 2009, 06:27 PM
I am RMA'ing mine. I hope maybe I got a dud since your new one is not having sleep problems.

If I still have problems I don't know what I'll do - probably ebay the thing and maybe buy the intel one, but 160gb is not really enough for what I want.

louden
Feb 25, 2009, 06:48 PM
I am RMA'ing mine. I hope maybe I got a dud since your new one is not having sleep problems.

If I still have problems I don't know what I'll do - probably ebay the thing and maybe buy the intel one, but 160gb is not really enough for what I want.

You know - newegg gave me a credit for mine - even though I asked for a replacement, and the policy on the product noted replacements only. That added a day or so to the process.

If you have a dud - return it and see what they do.

louden
Feb 25, 2009, 06:51 PM
I did the disk swap method of upgrading and now when Time Machine kicks in - I'm having to backup from scratch again! No fun there.

What experience have you all had with upgrading and restoring a drive and Time Machine functionality?

pprior
Feb 25, 2009, 07:42 PM
You know - newegg gave me a credit for mine - even though I asked for a replacement, and the policy on the product noted replacements only. That added a day or so to the process.

If you have a dud - return it and see what they do.

How did you get the credit? Did they offer or did you request?

louden
Feb 25, 2009, 07:46 PM
How did you get the credit? Did they offer or did you request?

They just did it - I'm assuming the people doing the RMA's don't look at that kind of detail very closely. You'll notice it on the RMA.

If you have a dud, I'd return it, see what they do, then contemplate waiting for future revs if they just give you back the cash.

IMO - I've got a SATA 1.5Gb/s system, so I'm really not going to get much better than this... I'll wait for nehalem to upgrade.

spaceballl
Feb 25, 2009, 09:07 PM
I'm still loving mine, but... I have noticed windows vmware performance to be pretty bad. I'm not sure what the technical reason for this is.... but in OS X, it's great!

dogg
Feb 26, 2009, 12:27 AM
What temp is showing for the Titan. My idle temp is 44 degrees. My Samsung SSD sat at 0 degrees.

Any thoughts?

spaceballl
Feb 26, 2009, 12:42 AM
What temp is showing for the Titan. My idle temp is 44 degrees. My Samsung SSD sat at 0 degrees.

Any thoughts?
Hmmm... Not sure what the actual temp is, but I think your reading might have been off for the Samsung... Doesn't exactly make sense that it would be at the freezing point :D

Thunder82
Feb 26, 2009, 12:25 PM
A little off topic, but does anyone know if the Corsair SSD mentioned earlier has the JMicron controller like the G.Skill drive?

TexasAg
Feb 26, 2009, 08:57 PM
A little off topic, but does anyone know if the Corsair SSD mentioned earlier has the JMicron controller like the G.Skill drive?

It uses the Samsung controller.

tubbymac
Feb 26, 2009, 10:01 PM
I would tend to think that the battery's run time being reduced is more related to the processor being able to do more work in less time because it's being supplied data at a considerably faster rate rather than any actual increase in power consumption by the SSD; however, that's just my opinion based on what I've read so far regarding this issue.

That's a reasonable assumption to make but it's not true. The SSD I use and some other SSDs are remarkably power efficient and get you some battery life gains even while supplying the computer with data faster. The power consumption on the Titan is due to having to supply 2 JMicron controllers and 1 internal raid controller with power. Those don't come for free, especially the raid controller. Other SSDs usually only have 1 controller and no built in raid so they use less power.

bugout
Feb 27, 2009, 12:01 PM
I wasn't having the sleep issue when I first put it in.. and now all of a sudden it wont wake up.. :-(

npavkovic
Mar 4, 2009, 04:26 AM
Haven't lost any files yet, but it's annoying. I've got a Titan in my new MacBook unibody. The sleep problem is the only one I've noticed so far, and I can't figure out exactly what causes it to happen -- it doesn't occur consistently.

Has anyone determined if having NewEgg swap out the disc is a solution, or if this is perhaps related to firmware (or something else) on all Titans?

Thanks!
Nick

pprior
Mar 4, 2009, 07:24 AM
I've RMA'd mine to newegg, but given the prevelance of this sleep problem I think I'm going to sell it on ebay when it comes back. I really like the SSD speed, but not being able to sleep is a big problem. Bummer, but that's the bleeding edge I guess.

spaceballl
Mar 4, 2009, 08:41 AM
I'm wondering if the sleep issue has to do w/ the SATA controller. I'm using the Titan drive still, and I only have two issues. Battery life seems about 10% worse than before. And the drive can get warm. I've had NO sleep problems, but I'm using a Penryn Intel chipset macbook pro... I put this thing to sleep and wake it up multiple times per day.

I'm sorry about the troubles that everyone else is having... :confused::confused:

That's annoying...

louden
Mar 5, 2009, 12:23 PM
I'm wondering if the sleep issue has to do w/ the SATA controller. I'm using the Titan drive still, and I only have two issues. Battery life seems about 10% worse than before. And the drive can get warm. I've had NO sleep problems, but I'm using a Penryn Intel chipset macbook pro... I put this thing to sleep and wake it up multiple times per day.

I'm sorry about the troubles that everyone else is having... :confused::confused:

That's annoying...

I don't work for G.Skill, Samsung nor Corsair but at the present time, I think the best bet would be to go for the 128 GB Corsair over the Titan (128 or 256). I thought 128 would have been to small for my needs, but I just moved some stuff that I rarely use off the machine, and could have been happy with the 128. So, if I were to do it all over again (today), I'd take a close look to see if I really need 256GB.

My reasoning:
After installing the drive and OS as noted in this thread (not via a caddy) I haven't had any issues with the drive (sleep, stuttering) and love the performance. But it's not as quiet as I'd like, if only because the fan is kicking in all the time, which more than offsets the quiet disk. That's kind of important when you don't want to disturb those around you.

I wouldn't return the Titan and am looking forward to what's out there in the next year or so. It'll only get better!

nippyjun
Mar 5, 2009, 12:34 PM
I'd wait a little longer. The samsung is out now and the adata announcement is very exciting.

spaceballl
Mar 5, 2009, 12:37 PM
I agree that the corsair seems to be better / more reliable. Only thing is that it's not negotiable for me. I need the 256GB of space. I can't and don't want to move stuff to an external drive. Plus, the Corsair is too pricey. Oh well when I buy my next macbook, i'll make sure it has 256GB or 512GB built in.... in a year or so...

tubbymac
Mar 5, 2009, 07:47 PM
I have the Corsair 128 SSD and although it's nice and reliable there is one big disadvantage to it - pretty much every other drive in a comparable price range smokes this thing in performance. The Titan, Apex, Intel, all beat this thing in raw speed.

kanon14
Mar 6, 2009, 11:32 AM
Ok after reading all the reviews by you guys I'm really impressed with this Titan SSD, but there is one major concern for me - boot camp is a must for me. I cannot use VM/Parallel to load Windows as I need to game on it. I'll be running WIndows 7 beta via boot camp but I heard that some people are having difficulty installing Windows (XP/Vista) via boot camp on this drive. Has anyone tried it? Did you encounter any problem? I'm planning to grab a new HDD (either the Titan or a 7200rpm drive) tomorrow for my unibody MBP 15" so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

bugout
Mar 7, 2009, 06:50 AM
I have windows 7 running in boot camp on the titan. Works fine.

kanon14
Mar 7, 2009, 08:25 AM
I have windows 7 running in boot camp on the titan. Works fine. Thanks I just ordered one. Hopefully it'll arrive by Monday. Is there anyone I need to know before swapping the hdd and installing OSX & Win 7?

spaceballl
Mar 7, 2009, 01:25 PM
One thing i've noticed for those who mention slower VM performance... I noticed the same thing. But I was playing around with VMWare settings the other day. I saw that if you go into a VM's settings, go to Hard Disks, and then click "Cleanup Disk" that seemed to REALLY have a noticeable improvement to me. Wondering if anyone else has seen the same improvement - warning though - the disk cleanup process seems to take a while, like 10 minutes or so.

pprior
Mar 7, 2009, 02:23 PM
If anyone wants a titan 256GB, I'm getting a new in box one from newegg as a replacement and given I was having sleep issues I'm going to sell mine. PM me if interested.

Edit: ordered a velociraptor last night. When I get my new titan it will be sold. Performance with this drive was outstanding, but not being able to sleep computer is too big a problem. Please keep in mind mine is a mac pro, not a macbook/pro. I'll try again in a year or two.

loccie
Mar 7, 2009, 08:04 PM
I got a 128MB version of G.Skill Titan from NewEgg also and tried installing it in my 17" MacBook Pro early 2007 edition with 2.4Ghz CPU. Unfortunately, OSX Installer would not recognize the drive, so I had to do that trick of putting it in external USB enclosure and then installing OSX on it that way. Once the installation was done, I removed it from USB enclosure and connected it directly to the SATA connector again and then it booted fine.

I guess the drivers that come with OSX 10.5 installer do not recognize SSD drives.
Oh well, it's working now and I'm happy... :) No issues with sleep as some other folks mentioned (knock*3)...

ECJ
Mar 8, 2009, 11:20 AM
I'm having a horrible time with the Titan 256GB SSD Drive. I'm on my 2nd drive from an eBay vendor. After reading all the threads on this site, gskill.com and the Apple Support forums, I removed the 320GB drive from my Unibody 17" MBP. I put the Titan 256GB drive in it's place, and rebooted with the OSX 10.5 Install disc. I used the disk utility on the install disc. On the first two tries, it did not see the drive at all. I tried two different USB enclosures, and a firewire enclosure and received either input/output errors or Resource Busy errors.

I then tried using the three various enclosures connected to my 24" iMac, and received the same errors in Disk Utility and the OSX 10.5 setup. I even tried putting my 320gb HD back into my MBP and trying to format it as an external HD. It was able to see the drive, but the same errors happened.

So, I tried once more connected directly via the SATA in the 17" MBP, and now it says that the disk is failing. I'm RMA'ing this drive, but what is the right way to get this drive formated? I've read on other forums, not to put the drive near a USB enclosure. Any help would be great. Thanks.

spaceballl
Mar 9, 2009, 12:47 AM
Seems like this thing is really giving folks a tough time when it comes to installation. Mine is up and running, though - and has been running without a hitch since installation. Just the heat / battery reduction annoyances...

bugout
Mar 9, 2009, 08:40 AM
Seems like this thing is really giving folks a tough time when it comes to installation. Mine is up and running, though - and has been running without a hitch since installation. Just the heat / battery reduction annoyances...

I think I have an idea what the issue is. It's just a guess, but could it be the 10.5 install disk?

People who have used 10.5.4 or higher install disks don't seem to be having the issue. There might be a driver needed in a later install disk.

ECJ
Mar 9, 2009, 10:48 AM
I think I have an idea what the issue is. It's just a guess, but could it be the 10.5 install disk?

People who have used 10.5.4 or higher install disks don't seem to be having the issue. There might be a driver needed in a later install disk.

I should have been clear. I used the 10.5.6 install disc that was in the boxed set.

bugout
Mar 9, 2009, 11:07 AM
ok.. there goes that theory..

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 07:43 AM
Help! I just received the G.Skill 256 SSD. I took out my old hdd and put it on my new MPB. I started up the machine with the OSX install DVD but the disk utility couldn't see it. However it does show up properly inside system profiler. I tried to put it into a usb HDD case but it doesn't show up as well. Does anyone know how I can get OSX to see it?

Thanks!

ECJ
Mar 10, 2009, 08:13 AM
Help! I just received the G.Skill 256 SSD. I took out my old hdd and put it on my new MPB. I started up the machine with the OSX install DVD but the disk utility couldn't see it. However it does show up properly inside system profiler. I tried to put it into a usb HDD case but it doesn't show up as well. Does anyone know how I can get OSX to see it?

Thanks!

I'm in the same boat. Try a different computer to format it or a different USB enclosure. That worked for some people. Some USB enclosures do not work with the new SSD drives.

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 08:24 AM
I'm in the same boat. Try a different computer to format it or a different USB enclosure. That worked for some people. Some USB enclosures do not work with the new SSD drives.

The problem is I only have 1 enclosure at home. I just tried booting into Windows 7 but it cannot detect the drive at all. I don't know if I get a defective drive or if I did something wrong :(

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 09:06 AM
Ok I don't know what I did but this is what happened: I hooked up the SSD using the same enclosure to my previous gen mac mini. It couldn't see the drive. Then I hook it back with my MPB using the SATA port. I booted from OSX DVD and then in DU suddenly it can see the SSD :eek: So I formatted it and now OSX is installing. The only difference is that I didn't put the hhd screws on (I expected it not to work and I'd have to remove it anyway). I hardly doubt that's what "fixed" it but anyhow. OSX is installing. I'll report back if it installs successfully.

edit: OSX installed successfully. Now I'm migrating my old stuff over

spaceballl
Mar 10, 2009, 09:55 AM
kanon14, glad you're up and running! I'm curious to hear your results.

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 09:59 AM
kanon14, glad you're up and running! I'm curious to hear your results.
Thanks mate! I have absolutely no idea how it worked. I'll post up some Xbench marks once I got it running.

ECJ
Mar 10, 2009, 10:56 AM
Ok I don't know what I did but this is what happened: I hooked up the SSD using the same enclosure to my previous gen mac mini. It couldn't see the drive. Then I hook it back with my MPB using the SATA port. I booted from OSX DVD and then in DU suddenly it can see the SSD :eek: So I formatted it and now OSX is installing. The only difference is that I didn't put the hhd screws on (I expected it not to work and I'd have to remove it anyway). I hardly doubt that's what "fixed" it but anyhow. OSX is installing. I'll report back if it installs successfully.

edit: OSX installed successfully. Now I'm migrating my old stuff over

Dang it. Ok, let me try again. It can't hurt. I was going to send it for a RMA today. So, wish me luck.

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 11:16 AM
Dang it. Ok, let me try again. It can't hurt. I was going to send it for a RMA today. So, wish me luck.
Yea since you're sending it in anyway try to plug it into as many PCs/Macs as you can. I doubt it'll fix it but that worked for mine apparently. Hope you can get it works :)

kanon14
Mar 10, 2009, 12:36 PM
Yea since you're sending it in anyway try to plug it into as many PCs/Macs as you can. I doubt it'll fix it but that worked for mine apparently. Hope you can get it works :)

I've had everything setup, which includes installing Windows 7 beta via boot camp. Everything is a blast once OSX decided to play nice with my SSD. I'm updating the gane Lord of the Rings Online and hope to do some game testing once it's finished.

p.s. I do notice something abnormal. The MBP seems to be running HOTTER than before. I'm not sure if it's because I'm installing all the updates and stuff or because of it requires more power to run the SSD (it makes no sense), or because of Windows 7. Guess I'll need to do more testing.

stylinexpat
Mar 10, 2009, 04:49 PM
I bought a new MacbookPro a couple of days ago and just had my new Vertex 120 GB SSD installed. Installation went smoothly and the lapto takes 2 seconds 2 shutdown, applications open right when you click on them with no loading times and laptop boots up in around 25-28 seconds.

I believe the bootup time is a bit slow though. I was expecting it to start up in under 20 seconds.

spaceballl
Mar 10, 2009, 05:09 PM
p.s. I do notice something abnormal. The MBP seems to be running HOTTER than before. I'm not sure if it's because I'm installing all the updates and stuff or because of it requires more power to run the SSD (it makes no sense), or because of Windows 7. Guess I'll need to do more testing.
No this is on par - take a look at some of my earlier posts in this thread. Seems like this SSD does run a bit warmer than a typical drive. Furthermore, it does consume a bit more power, and it will decrease your battery life by ten to twenty percent.

Intuitively, this makes no sense. SSDs have no moving parts. Shouldn't there be less power usage and less heat? Since the Titan actually has to power dual jmicron controllers and an internal raid controller, "they say" this is where the extra power / heat comes from. And I'm also sure G. Skill hasn't done much power optimization. It's a really fast drive, and I'm happy to have it, but it really just whets my appetite for what is coming down the pipe 6 to 18 months from now.

loccie
Mar 10, 2009, 11:32 PM
I personally don't have this problem, but one way to avoid issues with hang on coming back from sleep mode is to always use "hibernate" mode in Mac OS X.
It's actually really simple to switch between traditional sleep (when data is still in memory) and hibernate (when everything gets dumps on SDD).

To see what is your current mode, run this command:

$ pmset -g | grep hibernatemode

To switch to "hibernate" mode, run this command:

# sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 0

These are the modes that are supported:

# 0 - Old style sleep mode, with RAM powered on while sleeping, safe
sleep disabled, and super-fast wake.
# 1 - Hibernation mode, with RAM contents written to disk, system
totally shut down while ďsleeping,Ē and slower wake up, due to reading
the contents of RAM off the hard drive.
# 3 - The default mode on machines introduced since about fall 2005.
RAM is powered on while sleeping, but RAM contents are also written to
disk before sleeping. In the event of total power loss, the system
enters hibernation mode automatically.
# 5 - This is the same as mode 1, but itís for those using secure
virtual memory (in System Preferences -> Security).
# 7 - This is the same as mode 3, but itís for those using secure
virtual memory.

Hope this helps. I've been using hibernate as I sometimes leave Mac off for a few days. This should keep the battery running longer since it would presumably go through fewer recharge cycles as well.

I would be interested to know if this tip helps folks who are having sleep issues.

bugout
Mar 11, 2009, 01:28 AM
or you could just use smartsleep (www.jinx.de/SmartSleep.html) which gives you all those options from a pref.pane

louden
Mar 11, 2009, 04:00 AM
I personally don't have this problem, but one way to avoid issues with hang on coming back from sleep mode is to always use "hibernate" mode in Mac OS X.
It's actually really simple to switch between traditional sleep (when data is still in memory) and hibernate (when everything gets dumps on SDD).

To see what is your current mode, run this command:

$ pmset -g | grep hibernatemode

To switch to "hibernate" mode, run this command:

# sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 0

These are the modes that are supported:

# 0 - Old style sleep mode, with RAM powered on while sleeping, safe
sleep disabled, and super-fast wake.
# 1 - Hibernation mode, with RAM contents written to disk, system
totally shut down while ďsleeping,Ē and slower wake up, due to reading
the contents of RAM off the hard drive.
# 3 - The default mode on machines introduced since about fall 2005.
RAM is powered on while sleeping, but RAM contents are also written to
disk before sleeping. In the event of total power loss, the system
enters hibernation mode automatically.
# 5 - This is the same as mode 1, but itís for those using secure
virtual memory (in System Preferences -> Security).
# 7 - This is the same as mode 3, but itís for those using secure
virtual memory.

Hope this helps. I've been using hibernate as I sometimes leave Mac off for a few days. This should keep the battery running longer since it would presumably go through fewer recharge cycles as well.

I would be interested to know if this tip helps folks who are having sleep issues.

Yech!

If I wanted a machine that sticks coming out of sleep, I'd buy a Windows laptop. I've come to expect things to work on my mac, and this is one of them. I've got my Titan working nicely in my machine. you all should too, otherwise, something is wrong!

kanon14
Mar 11, 2009, 04:01 AM
Ok this is what I got in Xbench.

Stock Hitachi 320GB 5200rpm drive:
Disk Test 38.59
Sequential 89.62
Uncached Write 104.17 63.96 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 100.77 57.02 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 60.47 17.70 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 116.64 58.62 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 24.59
Uncached Write 7.98 0.84 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 74.01 23.69 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 66.23 0.47 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 115.13 21.36 MB/sec [256K blocks]

G.Skill 256GB SSD
Disk Test 74.50
Sequential 90.34
Uncached Write 196.30 120.52 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 164.09 92.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 32.72 9.58 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 395.55 198.80 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 63.39
Uncached Write 18.10 1.92 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 181.57 58.13 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1204.04 8.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 662.05 122.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]

spaceballl
Mar 11, 2009, 12:36 PM
Gotta love those uncached read scores :)

loccie
Mar 11, 2009, 01:34 PM
Yech!

If I wanted a machine that sticks coming out of sleep, I'd buy a Windows laptop. I've come to expect things to work on my mac, and this is one of them. I've got my Titan working nicely in my machine. you all should too, otherwise, something is wrong!

As I said my Titan works fine as well. I'm using hibernate because I want to increase battery time. When I close my laptop I don't know in advance when I'm going to be using it next time. In my experience, the battery drains in about 2-3 days in sleep mode, and I don't mind waiting for 20 seconds or so on wakeup.
My point was that reads are super fast with this SSD, so hibernate becomes much more useful than with regular drives.

MrZebra
Mar 11, 2009, 02:15 PM
No this is on par - take a look at some of my earlier posts in this thread. Seems like this SSD does run a bit warmer than a typical drive. Furthermore, it does consume a bit more power, and it will decrease your battery life by ten to twenty percent.

Really? Good to know, that thing will never get into my notebook :)

loccie
Mar 11, 2009, 03:21 PM
No this is on par - take a look at some of my earlier posts in this thread. Seems like this SSD does run a bit warmer than a typical drive. Furthermore, it does consume a bit more power, and it will decrease your battery life by ten to twenty percent.


Straight from the horse's mouth (posted by one of GSkill people on their forums):

Power Consumption
i. Standby: 0.2A @ 5V, 1W
ii. Sustained Read/Write: 650mA @ 5V, 3W
iii. Average RMS: 600mA @ 5V
iv. Maximum Peak: 1.5A @ 5V

Does anybody know what is the typical power consumption for regular drives?

striatedglutes
Mar 11, 2009, 05:53 PM
someone said that the X-25 was 0.06W idle

pprior
Mar 11, 2009, 06:58 PM
I received my new Titan from Newegg. I've decided not to open it and chance having the sleep problem again, so I've put it for sale in the marketplace forum, and will go ebay if no interest in a day or so.

Performance was excellent, and I'll miss it, but personally no sleep was an issue on my particular machine.

If interested, PM me. I think it's a great drive otherwise.

ECJ
Mar 12, 2009, 02:58 PM
Straight from the horse's mouth (posted by one of GSkill people on their forums):

Power Consumption
i. Standby: 0.2A @ 5V, 1W
ii. Sustained Read/Write: 650mA @ 5V, 3W
iii. Average RMS: 600mA @ 5V
iv. Maximum Peak: 1.5A @ 5V

Does anybody know what is the typical power consumption for regular drives?

The typical is .2 idle to 1.3 at maximum. Check this article on Tom's Hardware which explains the whole thing. Seems that SSDs only have two states (idle and maximum), so SSDs end up at the maximum state more than traditional hard drives.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-hdd-battery,1955-2.html

kanon14
Mar 13, 2009, 04:47 AM
I don't know if this has anything to do with The "issue" i'm having right now, but last night when I put my MPB to sleep, the next day all of its power is gone. I unplugged the charger when I went to bed so the MBP was running on battery while it was in sleep mode. Usually it only consumed about 1% to 2% of battery on my MBA when I put in into sleep for a night (without charging). So I don't know if it was the SSD drawing all the power out. I did uncheck the "put HDD to sleep if possible" box tho, and if what ECJ said is true (SSD having only two states) then that means the SSD is running at maximum hence drawing all the power? Can anyone confirm this?

spaceballl
Mar 16, 2009, 01:11 AM
The typical is .2 idle to 1.3 at maximum. Check this article on Tom's Hardware which explains the whole thing. Seems that SSDs only have two states (idle and maximum), so SSDs end up at the maximum state more than traditional hard drives.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-hdd-battery,1955-2.html
Ah this would explain the poor battery performance...

ECJ
Mar 16, 2009, 11:32 AM
Just finished speaking to G. Skill's RMA/Tech Support. I RMA'd my 256GB Titan SSD drive, and they received my unit last Friday and mailed out a replacement the same day. Should be here today or tomorrow. Anyway, I asked how should someone install the Titan SSD in a MacBook. He stated not to use a USB enclosure, since it causes weird things to happen to the drive. It's best to install directly to the internal SATA connector. I know from many other posters, that the USB enclosure route worked fine. Just passing the info. Also he stated that they went to the Apple Store to have them install the Titan SSD drives in Macs. The Apple store said that it was best to install directly to the internal SATA connector.

I'll update when I receive my new unit, and how it goes. I'll try the SATA way first with OSX 10.5.6 Install disc. I pray it works this time.

tibi08
Mar 16, 2009, 01:38 PM
He stated not to use a USB enclosure

USB enclosure worked fine for me too but I can imagine it might not. It doesn't seem very practical to connect it directly to the internal SATA, how would you copy the drive image across? You'd have to install from scratch - what a pain.

ECJ
Mar 18, 2009, 01:13 PM
And the saga continues. Received my replacement SSD today. Crack open the 17" Unibody, and remove the old HD. Open the Titan 256Gb box, and find out they sent me a 128GB regular SSD. Not even the Titan version. So I call Tech Support, and they are going to send me the correct version. The good news is that i installed the drive in, and it was recognized and it's installing OSX 10.5.6 just fine. I'm just testing it out. :)

spaceballl
Mar 18, 2009, 01:24 PM
Open the Titan 256Gb box, and find out they sent me a 128GB regular SSD. Not even the Titan version.
THAT IS FREAKING RIDICULOUS.

Man that sucks...

dustobub
Mar 18, 2009, 02:36 PM
I've had a 128GB Titan installed in my Unibody Macbook 2.4ghz for about a month now and have been trying lots of things to get it to perform better. I also had the annoying install issues, and I must say it is a bitch to workaround if you don't put the Titan in a external case.

All of these xbench overall disk scores for the Titan are around 70, which is not impressive, and plenty of 2.5in 7200 rpm drives attain 70ish overall scores. Sure, some of the individual disk tests are very good, but they are dragged down by the terrible 4k performance. I'm sure it might have been mentioned before, but the OCZ Vertex series consistently scores around 170 overall.

I've turned on "noatime" on for the Titan, and it may feel a bit snappier (placebo?), but the benchmarks don't reflect any change.

Something does not feel right. Although I have never had any sleep issues, I get hesitations and things just don't feel as fast as I know they should. I installed the iphone SDK yesterday, and while this was before I turned on noatime, my friend using a stock year old MBP with a 7200rpm drive was able to install the sdk in half the time.

Would people check and see if their drive is listed as supporting "Native Command Queuing" in system profiler? Mine is listed as not supported, and while it shouldn't make much of a difference, I find it strange considering all other Sata SSD drives including the OCZ Vertex and Intel X25e/m support NCQ in OSX.

I'm not sure if this is a Titan specific problem or Titan+OSX. There is very little information available specific to the Titan running OSX, and no useful information on their forum. Based on the benchmarks, I feel my Titan performs just as well as any Titan running OSX, but that's my point, it's not very good.

Also, my battery life, as noted by others, has been noticeably worse compared to my stock hard drive.

Any information or guidance would be helpful. I am very very close to ebaying it and buying a Vertex or going back to my stock mechanical drive.

FYI my Titan is firmware 0955.

Thanks,

Dustin

ppayne
Mar 19, 2009, 11:36 PM
Wow, great thread for talking about what I've been obsessing over recently!

I put a 256 GB G.Kill Titan in my Macbook Pro (early 2008) and have liked it a lot so far. Things feel much faster, with certain activities improving a lot, and others only a little. Booting, backing up to Time Machine, loading Photoshop CS3, loading a lot of images in Photoshop and booting Windows in Parallels are all much faster. I've had no issues at all, no sleep problems and no issues installing Boot Camp, which went a lot faster than it did on a normal hard drive.

The only thing I'm not happy about is temperature, since at times the drive seems to be getting hot, causing my fans to blow more. The fans on this machine aren't loud at all, even at their max, but the things that trigger fan noise (obviously increased load from running Parallels, or rebooting, or doing something funny). Sometimes, though, drive activity seems to spike and the fans get louder even though nothing is happening as far as I can see. When things are good they are very good, with the fans blowing at 1100 rpm or so, almost silent. But sometimes the fans decide they want to go at 2500-3000 rpm, and I can't see why this should be unless I'm doing a big copy or something. For reference, I did have a big increase in fan noise from 1100 to 2200 or so when I went to my 7200 rpm 500 GB hard drive, too.

I'd really like someone to make a control panel or other tool that let us see the state of the SDD and could perhaps force it into idle mode. One of the changes in OS X from OS 9 is the inability to set time for drive sleep, and I wonder what kinds of tools could be made (or repurposed) to force the drive to be a bit more efficient if, say, nothing were accessed for 20-30 seconds. Anyone tried any tools to manipulate drive sleep time in OS X? Is there a way to even talk to the SSD, perhaps through terminal?

Judging from what the battery timer reports when I go on battery, I believe battery life will be slightly improved. I have a brand new battery, and it would report 3:20 of time at the start of a work session with the old drive. It's slightly higher with the SSD, 3:40 or so. This is with the screen turned down, wifi off and bluetooth off.

The best thing about the drive is, it's 256 GB. That's enough for anything I need to do, thank you very much, although I am dropping down from a 500 GB hard drive.

Well, anyone have feedback on temperature issues and how to fix them, or how to make the drive go into idle mode, if that's something I should be messing with?

Edit: here are my stats:

Disk Test 70.55
Sequential 85.27
Uncached Write 191.34 117.48 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 143.39 81.13 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 34.42 10.07 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 176.77 88.84 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 60.16
Uncached Write 17.53 1.86 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 169.36 54.22 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1163.29 8.24 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 374.81 69.55 MB/sec [256K blocks]

louden
Mar 20, 2009, 11:17 AM
More cud to chew on...

Did you all see this? AnandTech has a new review of SSDs and perf problems in particular. There's a page focused on JMicron based SSDs:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=17

I don't doubt that write latency might not be the greatest, but I rarely feel stuttering. I think I have seen some while running a VM, but VM perf is no worse than on a spinning drive.

I've had this drive for a month (after the first RMA) and just re-ran XBench to get a look at disk speeds, and while small writes aren't great, they're still better than my old spinning drive, and the reads are really impressive. I'm not seeing any drop off in perf yet. We'll see over time.

I like the perf - it's just the heat I feel and the spinning fans that get to me. Anyone else feel the same way?

louden
Mar 20, 2009, 11:19 AM
FYI - I know I've changed my firefox settings to not use the disk for caching. Has anyone else tried that? I think the recommendation was for windows users, but I figured I'd try it on the mac. Seems to have great perf, but I'm wondering if anyone else has done that on on the mac.

ppayne
Mar 20, 2009, 11:35 AM
I played with the battery today, testing speed, and things do seem improved over the 500 gb hard drive I had before. It displayed anywhere from 3:40 to 3:00 which is slightly better, although i didn't stay long enough to test it. The secret to battery life seems to be, don't run a browser with a bunch of open pages, since they just sit there and use up tons of processor time. Which means that this is a big huge hole for browsers IMHO -- the should have an option to "freeze" all page content or something, to block all active Flash elements when on battery or something. Seriously need to manage processor activity better when on battery and not loading anything.

(I am using Camino, usually among the best browsers at processor related stuff.)

stylinexpat
Mar 20, 2009, 11:45 AM
I still don't understand how people say their machines are running hot with a SSD in them:confused: Mine right now is running between 36-42 Deg. C I have a Macbook Pro 15" with 2.53 CPU in it. My Vertex SSD has been cool so far.

tubbymac
Mar 20, 2009, 12:33 PM
I don't doubt that write latency might not be the greatest, but I rarely feel stuttering. I think I have seen some while running a VM, but VM perf is no worse than on a spinning drive.

Very rarely have I heard people complaining about stuttering on OSX even with the first JMicron drives. OSX just handles the small writes much better than Windows. Maybe OSX buffers random writes into bigger blocks? I dunno. The only stuttering I've ever heard about was in relation to using bootcamp or a Windows virtual machine. Anandtech does all it's tests on Windows so that's probably why they measured stuttering. If they tested on OSX maybe they wouldn't have seen any.

I still don't understand how people say their machines are running hot with a SSD in them:confused: Mine right now is running between 36-42 Deg. C I have a Macbook Pro 15" with 2.53 CPU in it. My Vertex SSD has been cool so far.

The Vertex uses just 1 controller. That's why it runs a lot cooler. Vertex and Titan are based on two very different technologies.

ECJ
Mar 21, 2009, 10:30 PM
Well, with the third G. Skill 256GB drive, I finally got it installed. It wasn't very easy, but I think I figured it out.

I have a month old Unibody 17" MacBook Pro with the 2.93Ghz CPU. My previous issue was that, when the drive was installed in the MBP, it would not be recognized. It would see the drive, if it was connected via USB enclosure. I read on the OCZ forums (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52255) that one issue is that the drive is Windows formated, and the Mac has some issue reading the MBR on the drive.

They recommend using Disk Utility to erase the drive, by writing zeros to the drive. If the MBP doesn't recognize it then, use MBRWizard (http://mbrwizard.com/) a windows program to completely wipe the drive. I didn't have to get that far to use MBRWizard. The Zeroing out the drive in Disk Utility worked.

My final process to get OSX 10.5.6 installed was very weird. I had to install the SSD drive into the MBP, then turn it on in Target Disk mode. I then connected the MBP to my iMac, and ran the install disc from the iMac. It installed, and I rebooted the MBP, and it worked fine.

Previous to getting it working, I had been through two other 256GB Titans, used various USB and firewire enclosures, and my iMac or Vista laptop. The zeroing out the drive during the erase worked like a charm.

So, anyway, it's installed with no sleep issues or other issues. I do notice that my battery is draining faster than before.

tibi08
Mar 22, 2009, 04:54 AM
My previous issue was that, when the drive was installed in the MBP, it would not be recognized. It would see the drive, if it was connected via USB enclosure. I read on the OCZ forums (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52255) that one issue is that the drive is Windows formated, and the Mac has some issue reading the MBR on the drive.

They recommend using Disk Utility to erase the drive, by writing zeros to the drive. If the MBP doesn't recognize it then, use MBRWizard (http://mbrwizard.com/) a windows program to completely wipe the drive. I didn't have to get that far to use MBRWizard. The Zeroing out the drive in Disk Utility worked.

My final process to get OSX 10.5.6 installed was very weird.

Maybe your usb enclosure is rubbish. You should be able to attach the drive via usb, format the drive, and copy the data across (e.g. using Disk Utility) and then install the drive into your MBP.

ECJ
Mar 22, 2009, 05:26 AM
Maybe your usb enclosure is rubbish. You should be able to attach the drive via usb, format the drive, and copy the data across (e.g. using Disk Utility) and then install the drive into your MBP.

That's what I thought, but I had two different USB enclosures, one firewire enclosure, and one Thermaltake Black X dock, which all didn't work on a 2008 iMac, the unibody 17" and a Dell laptop. It shouldn't have to be that hard to install a drive. With the OCZ line of SSD's, they have similar problems on mac products. Where the newer SSD's aren't recognized, where the older models are without issue.

MBHockey
Mar 28, 2009, 01:19 PM
Hey everyone,

First off I want to thank you guys for all the information so far. I have a question about the G.Skill Titan though -- is the freezing/sleep issue with the Titan present on ALL unibody MacBooks and MacBook Pros?

I have a Unibody MacBook that I just purchased (2.4GHz) and I am interested in an SSD, and the Titan looks great, except that lots of reviews on Newegg posts here indicate a problem with this drive and Unibody Mac notebooks.

Has G.Skill elucidated the problem at all in terms of which computers it will actually well with?

ECJ
Mar 28, 2009, 03:29 PM
Hey everyone,

First off I want to thank you guys for all the information so far. I have a question about the G.Skill Titan though -- is the freezing/sleep issue with the Titan present on ALL unibody MacBooks and MacBook Pros?

I have a Unibody MacBook that I just purchased (2.4GHz) and I am interested in an SSD, and the Titan looks great, except that lots of reviews on Newegg posts here indicate a problem with this drive and Unibody Mac notebooks.

Has G.Skill elucidated the problem at all in terms of which computers it will actually well with?

I have the G. Skill 256GB Titan, in my MBP 17" Uni. I don't have any freezing, stuttering, or sleep issues. After my ordeal with the Titan, I can't recommend it. It is cheap, but it sucks the battery. I used to get at least 6 hrs with the 320GB 5400rpm HD. I get 4 1/2 hrs now. The speed is great, but at a cost, even though it has the best bang for buck. I'll be selling this one, and upgrading to a better quality SSD when prices drop.

MBHockey
Mar 29, 2009, 04:20 PM
I have the G. Skill 256GB Titan, in my MBP 17" Uni. I don't have any freezing, stuttering, or sleep issues. After my ordeal with the Titan, I can't recommend it. It is cheap, but it sucks the battery. I used to get at least 6 hrs with the 320GB 5400rpm HD. I get 4 1/2 hrs now. The speed is great, but at a cost, even though it has the best bang for buck. I'll be selling this one, and upgrading to a better quality SSD when prices drop.

I ended up going with the OCZ Vertex. There's a 4 page thread on here about the 250GB Vertex and it's got nothing but great things to say, so I went with that one. Thanks for the help.

tibi08
Mar 30, 2009, 01:35 PM
I ended up going with the OCZ Vertex. There's a 4 page thread on here about the 250GB Vertex and it's got nothing but great things to say, so I went with that one. Thanks for the help.

Good choice (even if the Intel drive is better) :)

MBHockey
Mar 30, 2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah the intel only goes up to 160 though right now. I needed at least 250.

morg
Mar 31, 2009, 01:06 PM
My first post on Macrumors :)
So here the thing, I saw the SSD on newegg and bought it right away it speeds and price seduced me !

(I've had the drive for 2 full weeks now) and wrote my thoughts on Macbidouille (French) (http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?showtopic=297218&view=findpost&p=2968698) and GSKILL support forums (English) (http://www.gskill.us/forum/showpost.php?p=2468&postcount=15) they are basically the same thing.

I get the drive and install it into my Unibody:
System profiler see it...
Disk Util does NOT !
let's try the external USB case, it is seen by Disk Util install and data migration went fast and smooth, I then moved my user folder to another disk. And I realized I did not need 256Gb !

NO SLEEP, hangs at boot for 8-10 sec then boots fast, the drive under Vista (http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28731) is FASTER than OSX (http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=28732) according to my tests.

Sometimes the computer is superfast and reliable (besides Sleep) and sometimes it is crashing and making my tech life a little bit more complex.

I got an answer from Gskill:
Dear customer
try to format your SSD with small block size like 4k or 8k block. that will help to increase the performance. we will check with apple and see there is any way to fix this sleep problem

Thank you
GSKILL SUPPORT

How do I reformat under OSX to get block size of 4k or 8k ?? Is that even an "explanation"?
Hope my contribution help, i'm available for questions but also considering another brand of SSD. Maybe it's too bleeding edge tech to use less known brands...

ryoung
Apr 4, 2009, 11:17 AM
No this is on par - take a look at some of my earlier posts in this thread. Seems like this SSD does run a bit warmer than a typical drive. Furthermore, it does consume a bit more power, and it will decrease your battery life by ten to twenty percent.

Intuitively, this makes no sense. SSDs have no moving parts. Shouldn't there be less power usage and less heat? Since the Titan actually has to power dual jmicron controllers and an internal raid controller, "they say" this is where the extra power / heat comes from. And I'm also sure G. Skill hasn't done much power optimization. It's a really fast drive, and I'm happy to have it, but it really just whets my appetite for what is coming down the pipe 6 to 18 months from now.

-I'm seeing the exact opposite my OCZ Vertex is recording a temp of 80 degrees versus my spindle based drive which clocked in at 121 F. my overall machine is running 12 degrees colder post change over, and my 1.5 year old battery at 45 percent is reporting 2:10 minutes of remaining battery time.

ryoung
Apr 4, 2009, 11:48 AM
Disk Test 155.52
Sequential 116.19
Uncached Write 188.91 115.99 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 131.96 74.67 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 59.27 17.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 213.58 107.35 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 235.10
Uncached Write 98.08 10.38 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 228.05 73.01 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 1663.41 11.79 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 545.89 101.29 MB/sec [256K blocks]

ppayne
Apr 12, 2009, 12:07 AM
Overall I've been happy with the G.Skill 256 GB SSD I threw into my Macbook Pro (early 2008), but recently I've been having fan issues. Mainly, the fans started either running on a high level (2000-5000 rpm) whenever I do anything that uses the SSD and processor in the slightest, or they start tracking my work with noise, i.e. getting louder as I do more with Photoshop or something, which is annoying. I'm going to some more testing, including opening the machine to make sure the heat sensors are placed correctly, but can anyone offer any help?

I'm running the extended version of Fan Control, and some current settings can be seen here:

http://images3.jlist.com/g2/fans.jpg

One question is, how should I read these settings? I'm not really sure what to do with lower temp threshold/upper temp threshold. Things change quite dramatically when I switch between CPU only, CPU for left and GPU for right, and GPU for both. For example, I just got the fans to quiet by selecting GPU for both, and the temperature stands at 66 degrees C, lower than before. This is fine, but I've had a few crashes or freezes of video memory which might be attributed to heat, which obviously means I need more cooling.

Does anyone have any input for me? Touching the area where the SSD is, it doesn't seem especially warm (the back left is much hotter). What temperature is "too much"? 66-75 degrees C is what I am usually seeing.

Oh joy, just had another Photoshop crash that I'd never seen before putting this thing in. Has anyone else had fan and/or crashing or freezing problems that seemed to be due to heat?

spaceballl
Apr 12, 2009, 12:28 AM
-I'm seeing the exact opposite my OCZ Vertex is recording a temp of 80 degrees versus my spindle based drive which clocked in at 121 F. my overall machine is running 12 degrees colder post change over, and my 1.5 year old battery at 45 percent is reporting 2:10 minutes of remaining battery time.
Yeah the OCZ Vertex looks to be a great drive. I might migrate from my G. Skill to the OCZ Vertex eventually. For now I still can't justify the price... but man I do want one.

kanon14
Aug 30, 2009, 04:46 AM
Ok I had problems installing 10.5 onto my Titan 256 but somehow out of pure luck I was finally able to installed it back then when I first bought the drive a few months ago. Now I'm trying to install 10.6 on it and the same problem comes up again. I have 10.5.8 on the Titan drive at the moment and then I tried to upgrade 10.6. However, once the mpb booted with the install disc the mpb cannot see the drive in Disk Utility (it shows up properly under system profiler). So now I'm back to the same problem.

Is there anyone with the Titan drive having difficulties installing 10.6?

spaceballl
Aug 30, 2009, 11:57 AM
I have the Titan drive. I don't exactly like the drive, given the fact that it has really slowed down over time and that it heats up an has bad write performance.....

that being said, snow leopard installed just fine - I installed it on my mbp w/ titan drive and on my girlfriend's macbook with normal drive, and there were no issues on either.