Man accidentally shoots self while paying for lunch

[edesignuk]

A man trying to pay for lunch in a hospital cafeteria managed to shoot himself by accident instead. Luckily for him, he was already in a hospital.

The man, identified as 59-year-old Steve Tapp, somehow put a bullet through his right thigh while reaching into his pocket to pay in the cafeteria of Exempla Good Samaritan Medical Center in Lafayette, Colorado.
...
He now potentially faces charges of unlawfully carrying a concealed weapon, prohibited use of a weapon and reckless endangerment.

Guns are not allowed in the Exempla Good Samaritan Medical Center, although it has been pointed out that there are no signs at the hospital stating the 'no guns' rule. Because that's obviously something you need to have a sign for.Metro (http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?Man_accidentally_shoots_self_while_paying_for_lunch&in_article_id=531097&in_page_id=2).

What a twunt.

[RedTomato]

So it's OK to bring my green-painted horse in then?

Cos there's no signs saying 'No green-painted horses called "Kermit" allowed'.

[Stampyhead]

So it's OK to bring my green-painted horse in then?

Cos there's no signs saying 'No green-painted horses called "Kermit" allowed'.

Guns are not allowed in the Exempla Good Samaritan Medical Center

Valid point if guns are not allowed in any hospitals in the state. But if some hospitals allow guns but this one does not, how is he supposed to know that? I don't at all condone these idiots walking around with six-shooters in their pockets thinking they're still playing cowboys and indians from when they were kids, but logic dictates that if you don't allow something you need to let people know it.

[andiwm2003]

Valid point if guns are not allowed in any hospitals in the state. But if some hospitals allow guns but this one does not, how is he supposed to know that? I don't at all condone these idiots walking around with six-shooters in their pockets thinking they're still playing cowboys and indians from when they were kids, but logic dictates that if you don't allow something you need to let people know it.

i agree with you on that one. in addition if a state allows guns but the hospital doesn't what is he supposed to do? leave it at the bus station? best is not to have a gun with you anyway (unless there is a specific reason why you need it. something like shooting yourself doesn't count though)

[bigandy]

What a dumbass.

[RedTomato]

i agree with you on that one. in addition if a state allows guns but the hospital doesn't what is he supposed to do? leave it at the bus station?

Apply brain before leaving the house? Even in gun-legal areas, there are many specific places that don't allow guns - eg schools etc.

If he was paying for lunch, looks like he wasn't there as an emergency admission so he could have chosen to leave his gun behind. But now he is. Minus one bollock I expect.

[Abstract]

The only thing I find funny about this is that people/Americans actually walk around with guns in their pockets. I knew some people collected guns, and had guns in the house (you never know when the city will be invaded...), but I didn't realize normal citizens walked around as though it were the "wild west."

Anyway, I don't feel bad at all that he got shot. :p

[iJohnHenry]

Does this mean he had one in the breach, and the hammer cocked?? :eek:

If so, he's an idiot, and needs to be locked-up for his own good.

If not, he must have extra thumbs, because it isn't easy to do that. ;)

[QuantumLo0p]

Does this mean he had one in the breach, and the hammer cocked?? :eek:

If so, he's an idiot, and needs to be locked-up for his own good.

If not, he must have extra thumbs, because it isn't easy to do that. ;)

Cocked and locked is okay but some guns use a safety built into the trigger. IMO, not safe for carrying loose in a pants pocket.

Which brings up another question; why the heck was he carrying a loose gun?!?! Dumbass. One of my holsters simply hangs on the inside of the beltline and is securely held in place.

He should be thankful he wasn't carrying a big bore such as a Wildey or Desert Eagle. He would have blown his leg completely off!

[QuantumLo0p]

...but I didn't realize normal citizens walked around as though it were the "wild west."

It will be the Wild West if the government disarms its law abiding citizens.

Criminals love unarmed victims.

[Iscariot]

It will be the Wild West if the government disarms its law abiding citizens.

Criminals love unarmed victims.

I don't want to start a gun control/no gun control debate, because I don't support gun control. All the same, isn't it kind of asinine to suggest that "it will be the Wild West" when there are plenty of other nations with strict gun control and much lower crime rates? Or are you suggesting Americans are uniquely savage?

[mkrishnan]

Apply brain before leaving the house? Even in gun-legal areas, there are many specific places that don't allow guns - eg schools etc.

VAs actually do specifically and clearly advertise this fact. The reason they do it in large part is that this specific behavior -- carrying a gun in places where one knows one should not have a gun -- has been repeatedly associated with PTSD by the military, and there have been numerous problems over the years with discharged soldiers carrying guns around for no reason as sequelae of their PTSD....

[Moof1904]

Valid point if guns are not allowed in any hospitals in the state. But if some hospitals allow guns but this one does not, how is he supposed to know that? I don't at all condone these idiots walking around with six-shooters in their pockets thinking they're still playing cowboys and indians from when they were kids, but logic dictates that if you don't allow something you need to let people know it.

Hospitals are NOT off limits to licensed concealed carry in Colorado. If there were no signs and the person had a permit, then he was not breaking the law by carrying concealed there. Discharging the weapon as he did, that's another matter.

A quick Google search will reveal that police officers accidentally discharge their weapons, too. In fact, in the 10 year period following the D.C. police department's adoption of the Glock 9mm, there were 120 accidental discharges by the D.C. police officers. I wonder how many of them were arrested?

[QuantumLo0p]

I don't want to start a gun control/no gun control debate, because I don't support gun control. All the same, isn't it kind of asinine to suggest that "it will be the Wild West" when there are plenty of other nations with strict gun control and much lower crime rates? Or are you suggesting Americans are uniquely savage?

Sorry, but no. In the US there are many guns owned by civilians and in areas where stricter gun control are in place there is usually a rise in shootings. Simply put, the criminals have the guns and the victims do not.

To put it in perspective, more US civilians are killed in Chicago than troops in the Iraq war. This does not include coalition troops. Sad but true.

Perhaps it is asinine to think otherwise.
:D

[PkennethV]

seems like an appropriate thread to share this:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpgL5kuBpMA
(some mild language in the vid).

[Moof1904]

So it's OK to bring my green-painted horse in then?

Cos there's no signs saying 'No green-painted horses called "Kermit" allowed'.

Our constitution says that any act not prohibited by law is allowed. Your comment suggests that you would prefer a government and system of laws that details what actions are allowed and anything not approved by the government is illegal? No thanks.

[iJohnHenry]

Criminals love unarmed victims.

Until they stop manufacturing hand-guns, I will back-up this statement.

In fact, in the 10 year period following the D.C. police department's adoption of the Glock 9mm, there were 120 accidental discharges by the D.C. police officers. I wonder how many of them were arrested?

I wonder how many of them lost toes.

(My immediate image was of toes flying all over the place.)


:p

[zap2]

It will be the Wild West if the government disarms its law abiding citizens.

Criminals love unarmed victims.

yes, the reason criminals aren't out looting and stealing 24/7 is because of the power citizen's who are always defending people
:rolleyes:

[Abstract]

Sorry, but no. In the US there are many guns owned by civilians and in areas where stricter gun control are in place there is usually a rise in shootings. Simply put, the criminals have the guns and the victims do not.

To put it in perspective, more US civilians are killed in Chicago than troops in the Iraq war. This does not include coalition troops. Sad but true.

Perhaps it is asinine to think otherwise.
:D

Perhaps I misread your post, but I don't know how your post proves Iscariot to be incorrect in his statement. If anything, I think you backed him up. :p

[RedTomato]

He should have cut his hand off first. Then he wouldn't be able to shoot himself.

(Referring to the thread about the guy who cut his hand off.)

((Said thread also referring to this one.))

(((Eek recursion.)))

((((Oh no! a logic nazi will flame me for using recursion incorrectly!))))

(((((Is there any point to this?)))))

((((((No.))))))

[QuantumLo0p]

Perhaps I misread your post, but I don't know how your post proves Iscariot to be incorrect in his statement. If anything, I think you backed him up. :p

I assume you are speaking of the "savage" comment. Backing him up? No, you are incorrect.

We are all at the mercy of of our human nature and free will and guns make it much easier to control someone than without a gun. There is no place on this earth where the people are in total control of their physical and emotional environment. The only difference is the ability to have weapons or not.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong but rather making a statement.
:rolleyes:

[Dale124]

It seems the right man got shot, in this case.
It's nice that no innocent victim got hit.

[Mr. Giver '94]

Maybe he was trying to shoot himself to get out of eating something disgusting. ;)

Hospital food.....meh

[angelneo]

I assume you are speaking of the "savage" comment. Backing him up? No, you are incorrect.

We are all at the mercy of of our human nature and free will and guns make it much easier to control someone than without a gun. There is no place on this earth where the people are in total control of their physical and emotional environment. The only difference is the ability to have weapons or not.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong but rather making a statement.
:rolleyes:

Coming from a country where guns are banned, I don't see why I would want to have a gun. I went through a 2.5 years conscript army training, so I know a thing or two about firearms.

[Thomas Veil]

Hospitals are NOT off limits to licensed concealed carry in Colorado.I can totally see that.

Because, of course, you never know when you're gonna be attacked by a homicidal cancer patient armed with a plastic spoon.

[gonyr]

I didn't know Plaxico Burress had a 59 year old brother.

[QuantumLo0p]

Coming from a country where guns are banned, I don't see why I would want to have a gun. I went through a 2.5 years conscript army training, so I know a thing or two about firearms.

As for your wanting a gun or not, doesn't make any difference; you do not have the right in your country.

Your knowledge about firearms? Perhaps more than your knowledge of human nature.
:D
I love thread necromancy.
:)

[combatcolin]

Even before i clicked on this thread i thought

"Bet its an American..."

and what do you know? :rolleyes:

[remmy]

This is something I do find strange,

when leaving the house I do pat my pockets and think, wallet - check, keys - yup, phone - okay

loaded gun - doh must go back - never done that part.

[Dagless]

I wonder if carrying a loaded gun into a hospital was the best idea that chap had that day?

[Raid]

The only thing I find funny about this is that people/Americans actually walk around with guns in their pockets. Sometimes it's scary, during my time as a customs officer I saw plenty of instances where people with firearms had them carelessly stored, didn't know how to unload/render safe, and even somebody who forgot the weapon was there! There were two that did stand out for me that treated/stored their weapons properly. One was an Alabama state trooper, the other was a retired FBI agent.

It will be the Wild West if the government disarms its law abiding citizens. He wasn't exactly law abiding either, the gun was 'unlawfully concealed' as per the article.

Our constitution says that any act not prohibited by law is allowed. Your comment suggests that you would prefer a government and system of laws that details what actions are allowed and anything not approved by the government is illegal? No thanks. That's pretty funny considering how many laws and regulations we have prohibiting a wide range of activities already. Even with this principal of 'freedom of action unless legislated', society is getting closer and closer to having legislation dictate almost every facet of life; in many cases it's because people refuse to accept personal responsibility for their own actions.

[ChrisA]

I don't want to start a gun control/no gun control debate, because I don't support gun control. All the same, isn't it kind of asinine to suggest that "it will be the Wild West" when there are plenty of other nations with strict gun control and much lower crime rates? Or are you suggesting Americans are uniquely savage?

A good example of a country with VERY strict gun controls is Mexico. In Mexico you simply are not allowed to own a gun, even if it is locked in a safe. Well OK you can get a permit from the Mexican Army if you are working as a security guard or something like that. Still, guns are very tightly controlled.

So with such limits on guns you'd expect Mexico to be crime free and very safe. Not quite. The murder rate there is horrific and it's common to find bodies on the streets. I think Iraq has has outlawed private gun ownership too.

[alphaod]

So which "gun" fired "bullet" into his thigh?

Okay fail, I know.

[Airforcekid]

Thats why theres a safety not using it is dumb and its very hard just to undo!

[alphaod]

Thats why theres a safety not using it is dumb and its very hard just to undo!

Some guns don't have a safety namely revolvers.

[Dagless]

A good example of a country with VERY strict gun controls is Mexico. In Mexico you simply are not allowed to own a gun, even if it is locked in a safe. Well OK you can get a permit from the Mexican Army if you are working as a security guard or something like that. Still, guns are very tightly controlled.

So with such limits on guns you'd expect Mexico to be crime free and very safe. Not quite. The murder rate there is horrific and it's common to find bodies on the streets. I think Iraq has has outlawed private gun ownership too.

Wherea here in the UK you need a licence to own a gun and if you do own one it must be locked away. Yet we have a lower homocide rate than Mexico and the US.

[Lord Blackadder]

What a twunt.

Indeed, a complete idiot. If he was legally carrying, he wasn't being safe on several levels (first off, you don't use a pocket as a holster). If he was illegally carrying, he's a total moron.

On a side not about the signs...I can only speak for my home state of Ohio, but concealed carry is legal here and businesses have to place a sign outside their business if they have a no-firearms policy. Pretty much every business that isn't a gun store has one, but if the business does not clearly mark their business as no-firearms, then they cannot prosecute someone who is legally carrying a firearm (concealed or not).

This is not an argument for or against, just a statement of fact.

[statik13]

So with such limits on guns you'd expect Mexico to be crime free and very safe. Not quite. The murder rate there is horrific and it's common to find bodies on the streets. I think Iraq has has outlawed private gun ownership too.

Straw man argument. If the States had the poverty level that Mexico has you'd be very likely to see the same situation, with or without limits on guns.

I'm thinking the guy got exactly what he deserved for being so careless with a loaded weapon.

[A Mac Gamer]

I can totally see that.

Because, of course, you never know when you're gonna be attacked by a homicidal cancer patient armed with a plastic spoon.

I laughed out loud at this.

[snberk103]

A good example of a country with VERY strict gun controls is Mexico. In Mexico you simply are not allowed to own a gun, even if it is locked in a safe. Well OK you can get a permit from the Mexican Army if you are working as a security guard or something like that. Still, guns are very tightly controlled.

So with such limits on guns you'd expect Mexico to be crime free and very safe. Not quite. The murder rate there is horrific and it's common to find bodies on the streets. I think Iraq has has outlawed private gun ownership too.

If one is going to compare, at least compare apples to apples. The 3 countries that are most like the US are Canada, UK, Australia. All three have much stricter gun control laws, and all three have a death by firearm rate that is a small small fraction of the US rate. Canada has the highest rate, of the 3 gun controlled nations, and its because 1) guns are being smuggled from the US, and 2) Canadian gangster-wanna-be's want to be like their US cousins.

The sad argument that - if guns are controlled, only the criminals will have guns misses - a couple of key points. Only a small fraction of people killed by guns are criminals. Something like three quarters of gun deaths are family, friends, acquaintances (In King County which encompasses Seattle, it was only about 15%). So, for the right to shoot a criminal in the act, 7 family members, friends and acquaintances also get shot.

In nations with gun control laws, criminals typically don't carry guns, because the penalty is high enough that if they are going to get caught, they don't want to do the hard time. Its usually when you may have to defend your life from a gun carrying victim that a criminal carries a gun. And then shoots first because you can't wait to see if the victim is carrying a gun.

[Lord Blackadder]

If one is going to compare, at least compare apples to apples.

I disagree with you completely on several points , but at any rate you aren't providing any sources to back up your assertions...

Let's not turn this into yet another gun control discuss thread though, there are already several of those.

[snberk103]

I disagree with you completely on several points , but at any rate you aren't providing any sources to back up your assertions...

Let's not turn this into yet another gun control discuss thread though, there are already several of those.

No, I didn't have time to go back and look them up. I have posted on the same topic on a different board, with references etc, a couple of months back - so I knew the numbers, but didn't have the footnotes.

So, I'll stop if the pro gun lobby stops. The best we'll ever do is agree to disagree. :)

[Abstract]

I disagree with you completely on several points , but at any rate you aren't providing any sources to back up your assertions...

Well as a person who has lived in 3 of the 4 countries (I haven't lived in the US), Australia has relatively little gun crime. You have a better chance of getting stabbed with a broken piece of glass at a bar than you would being shot. Ever. That, or being beaten up in a fist fight. :rolleyes:

(that's why we all had to start using plastic cups in many bars recently, as Aussies aren't responsible enough for glass or bottles. :o)

[snberk103]

I disagree with you completely on several points , but at any rate you aren't providing any sources to back up your assertions...

Let's not turn this into yet another gun control discuss thread though, there are already several of those.

From the King County - Seattle Public Health Watch, August 2000

Deaths per 100,000 by firearms
US 11.3
Canada 4.08
Australia 3.05
UK 0.57

From the same report, p. 13- In King County there were 43 firearm suicides, criminal homicides, or unintentional deaths involving agun kept in the home for every 1 case of homicide for self-protection. Firearm deaths that occurred in King County homes involved friends or acquaintances 12 times as often as strangers.

Or in other words, for every case of "shot the criminal dead" 43 other people were killed by guns. From other stats in the report, just over half are suicides. If we assume that a suicidal person will find a way regardless to kill themselves (this is in fact a faulty assumption, but then again this is a tech forum) that means that 20 people are being killed for every criminal shot in self defence. Note the figure, 12 times as many family, friends, and acquaintances are shot dead than strangers.

On the same page of the report Seattle and Vancouver BC are nearly identical cities in terms of population demographics but have onefundamental difference; access to firearms, especially handguns. When compared to Vancouver BC,Seattle had a fivefold higher risk of handgun homicide ... Vancouver is considered to be one of Canada's most dangerous cities. Seattle is not.

King County - Seattle runs below the US national average for firearm shootings.

I could go on with stats, but why bother. The pro gun lobby uses the same set of narrow stats to justify gun ownership, while the experiences of other countries shows that gun ownership leads to death. Almost always your friends and loved ones, and rarely a criminal. But - just in case you might get your wallet stolen, Americans insist on the right to own a weapon that is usually used to kill themselves, and those around them.

Their are any number of reports that show similar trends. I know, I've researched them. The one I used here can be found here (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:0uNKqHJUzowJ:www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/data/~/media/health/publichealth/documents/data/firearms.ashx+King+county+USA+gun+deaths&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari)

[Lord Blackadder]

You have a better chance of getting stabbed with a broken piece of glass at a bar than you would being shot. Ever. That, or being beaten up in a fist fight. :rolleyes:

And, given the drinking culture present in Australia, you stand a pretty good chance of having both those things happen. ;)

statistics about gun crime.

Don't misunderestimate me here (:rolleyes:) - like I said, I wasn't trying to turn this into a gun control argument...and I'm not saying I completely disagree with your arguments...I just don't agree with everything you said in a previous post. People are so used to pro-gun vs anti-gun that both sides rarely concede the existence of a conceptual middle ground. I happen to occupy that middle ground in this debate I think, but again, we can discuss it elsewhere.

Here, I'm only interested in discussing a story about an idiot.

[snberk103]

.... I happen to occupy that middle ground in this debate I think, but again, we can discuss it elsewhere.

Here, I'm only interested in discussing a story about an idiot.

Fair enough. I have very little experience with guns, but even I know it takes an idiot to shoot themselves with a gun in their pocket. I wonder if he put his hand in his pocket, and wondered what he had left in there, and was then pushing and pulling to see if he could figure out what it was?

[allmIne]

Our constitution says that any act not prohibited by law is allowed. Your comment suggests that you would prefer a government and system of laws that details what actions are allowed and anything not approved by the government is illegal? No thanks.

Take a humerous comment as that. People like you, people who take things entirely literally and at face value, are the kind of people who shoot themselves.

[RedTomato]

Take a humerous comment as that. People like you, people who take things entirely literally and at face value, are the kind of people who shoot themselves.

LOL thanks for responding for me. In reality, most western governments are more or less a mix of different legal concepts. Sweeping generalities about law don't work well.

[godmachine12]

To put it in perspective, more US civilians are killed in Chicago than troops in the Iraq war. This does not include coalition troops. Sad but true.

Perhaps it is asinine to think otherwise.
:D

Killed by what means and by whom? A source here would be helpful, but perharps it's asinine of me to expect that.

[godmachine12]

Even before i clicked on this thread i thought

"Bet its an American..."

and what do you know? :rolleyes:

Hahaha...my first thought (since I was 99.9% sure it was an American) was what state. I assumed it was Texas.

[loslosbaby]

All snarks about Euro/Kiwi/Aussie gun-snarking aside (as if they even knew what a gun was...hmm)...and all legalities aside...being a proud Oklahoma Concealed Carry Permit Holder:

WTF was the guy doing putting anything but a holstered-and-safe gun in his carry pocket?! Duh!

<-- S&W 340PD in a custom holster (hand-made by Robert Mika) with nothing else in my pocket

We in the U.S. have guns so we can reboot our Govt. and come and save you guys (again)....and some of us live in the Wild West (of Crankers). Here in OK where I live, there's 10 law enforcement men in the whole county, and only one on duty at night.

...and its "safe as houses".

Like DJ Tutorial says, "Practice and Enjoy".

G.

[Lord Blackadder]

We in the U.S. have guns so we can reboot our Govt. and come and save you guys (again)

If you ever try to "reboot" our government with some sort of gunowners' uprising, you'll turn our fine nation into another Darfur, Chechnya, Somalia or Afghanistan. God help us all if that happens...

[takao]

All snarks about Euro/Kiwi/Aussie gun-snarking aside (as if they even knew what a gun was...hmm)...

in quite bit of euro countries there still is conscription service mandatory so you might think about what you wrote there...

[snberk103]

All snarks about Euro/Kiwi/Aussie gun-snarking aside ..... Here in OK where I live, there's 10 law enforcement men in the whole county, and only one on duty at night.

...and its "safe as houses".
G.

But I like snarking!:D

Seriously, how many people live in your county?

I live on an island of 10,000 with about 8 RCMP members. I don't know how many are on at night. Some people still park and leave their keys in the car, though since I'm originally from the city I still can't bring myself to to do that.

Cheers

[loslosbaby]

Re: Liking snarking, well, heck, can't stop a man from doing what a man likes!

Re: 10,000 people with 8 RCMP: That's slightly below average. Many US agencies are at around 1.5 sworn personnel-to-1000-citizen ratio. Canada is a totally decent and warmly friendly country, where the big problems seem to revolve around booze and cars. Hardly the wild west. I have always had a great time there, and the cops have been very professional and usually quite pleasant and helpful. BUT, check it out, and I guarantee there's two of them up at night, one at HQ on the radio, and one riding around, maybe two at bar-closing time. Our county (Latimer County, Oklahoma) is 10,600 give or take. I think the total LE guys adds up to 14 including Wilburton Police, reserves, the Sheriff, and the Under-Sheriff and the Sheriff's Deputies. Contrast LA County, with 8500 LAPD, 9000 LASD alone besides the 40+ other agencies and not even counting the Feebs (Feds). NYC has 90,000 including Transit and Port Authorities. Whoa.

Re: Conscription...yeah...I am all for it (but I'm no socialist) and I have seen the benefits (travelled all around Western Europe for work but mostly Scandinavia). Have you ever noticed that people who served in the Army seem to live (and be very vigorous) well up into their 80's? I think its a good idea, ESPECIALLY if there are no ways to get out of it...the poor and the rich, and the people from various areas get moved around and learn about the other side of the country. Its good to earn one's franchise (rights).

Re: Rebooting our country (the U.S.)...well, that's some sacred American stuff there my man. We rebooted it once, that didn't work (First Republic) and then a soft-boot (current government of 1783) and here we are still. Guns=Freedom, but, Guns can also equal total chaos. Its up to the culture of the people. Guns aren't helping anyone in Africa it seems, but, what about the people who are slaughtered with swords, sticks, and have had their heads run over by cars (Rwanda)? And trust me, the current European governments got rebooted by WW2 very nicely...let's see, I can't think of one that operated continuously from the 30's onward. Can anyone help me? If a country in Europe went way overboard into some horrible govt. tomorrow, what would the people do? March with signs (it HAS worked)? Throw a concert? Wear a color (it HAS worked)? History is weird. Sometimes a sit-in works, sometimes its 55 years of endless war against 5 oppressors like Vietnam. That's a peaceful country, right? Pretty quiet from what I hear and nobody from Vietnam is making war, is in the news, or is invading anyone. They're just hanging out.

The U.S. is going through a set of weird changes including socialized banks, big bucks support for bad corporate decisions, and spending the future money of our people on "stimulus". The AIG bail-out alone will cost every working American $1400..."hey dude, can I borrow 1400?"...bizarre, but the populous doesn't seem to care.

What's up next is a who-knows-what but grabbing up all the guns is not part of the equation. The Democrats run the show for now, but, there are Yellow Dog Democrats and Blue Dog Democrats (look them up in wikipedia if you're interested) that will never, ever, be a part of seizing weapons.

Seizing weapons is a coastal thing. Just the SF, and NYC types that foam at that one.

This dude in the cafeteria? "Moronical, basically the stupidest mo-fo that ever lived." In Oklahoma, Hospitals are on the no-carry list (govt. buildings, schools, secure areas in airports and hospitals, town hall meetings and churches) and they post no-carry signs on the doors anyways (oxygen is dangerous) but the guy should have had his weapon by itself with a professionally-made holster around it and nothing else at all in his pocket.

Apparently he had it "loose" in with his money and change. Not good for the public, the weapon-owner, or the weapon. Bad bad bad.

To carry a licensed, concealed weapon is a huge burden. You are not a 9-bill-of-rights American like when I lived in SF, you're not a "I don't want to get involved call 911" type of American like in NYC, you're a 10-bill-of-rights American, and your conduct must be without blemish.

The biggest responsibility is that nobody is hurt by the weapon. The next biggest responsibility is that you are not hurt by it. You MUST keep it concealed at all times...its paramount that it remains "your ace in the hole", because a weapon CREATES problems. In Oklahoma, a weapon-carrying person can't get in a verbal battle, can't tussle (fist fight), can't be a jerk, can't yell "why you breakin' my balls?", can't do any of those things. They teach you all this in the class, and it'll be held against you later if you use your weapon. The law is "wise" to the various set-ups a weapon-holder can try to use to get someone to attack them etc., so, you just have to get/stay out of baloney trouble situations, and you know it. They tell you in the first 30 minutes of the class--mis-use this right and you can get the needle.

Check this out, scenario: A small white woman is being bothered by a big black man. They are tugging and fighting over a bag. You get into the situation, he threatens you, you pull a weapon and shoot him. Guess what? You just got 30 years. How? The scenario is that the woman is selling drugs to the man. His crime is buying drugs. Her crime is selling with a gun. With a gun you say? What gun, she doesn't have a gun...

Its YOUR gun. How?

In Oklahoma, you automatically step into the shoes (legally) of the person you defend...and if that person is committing a criminal act, now you're committing that act, with a gun.

That'll sober one up....stop anyone from being a hero, and keep their nose outta baloney they don't need it to be in.

Half a million pistols being carried every day in Oklahoma for 10 years, and no "wild west ok corral shoot-out" situation yet. Not once. And the twist is, most of the people with permits are men, but most found to be carrying day-to-day are women. Check that one out, Fellow Feminists!

Heavy burden. Conduct without blemish. Severe penalties for mistakes.

Why do I carry? "Perhaps its the infernal distances" -- Richard Harris. I walked up on a rape (by three men on a woman) in a truckstop once where one little pocket pistol would have made the difference. I ran for help, brought help, and all we found were two shoes on the ground. Now, that woman was somewhere in those 300 trucks, but, we couldn't do anything about it.

Its just a tool. Why have fire extinguishers if you can call 911? Same thing.

Cheers to all, and that's all I gotta say about it. Thanks to all for having open minds to listen to my opinion...or for at least listening. I tell you though, its the last right Americans (outside of the cities) will give up...not negotiable, and the reason why the U.N. is so widely reviled (outside the cities). Their choice of public art (gun tied in knots) is part of it.

Trust me, I want it to be all "Star Fleet" and everyone is happy too without any privation, famine, inequality, etc., etc. but that's not today.

Let's get to talking about those macs again! (I just got a store demo MBP17 and its a life-changing experience...slick, quiet, powerful, the coolest computer I've ever owned...I'm gonna use it to resurrect my old DJ skills and learn to VJ as well as continue to program)

"Practice and Enjoy"

G.

[QuantumLo0p]

Killed by what means and by whom? A source here would be helpful, but perharps it's asinine of me to expect that.

Perhaps asinine not to read the news sources of Chicago reporting police information. Typos, perhaps? Don't trust me; check it out for yourself. It is all verifiable.

Also, you may be surprised that there were more troop casualties during the Clinton years than GW. However, perhaps it is asinine of me to assume you might actually verify something on your own.
:D

[iCheese]

Re: Liking snarking, well, heck, can't stop a man from doing what a man likes!

Re: 10,000 people with 8 RCMP: That's slightly below average. Many US agencies are at around 1.5 sworn personnel-to-1000-citizen ratio. Canada is a totally decent and warmly friendly country, where the big problems seem to revolve around booze and cars. Hardly the wild west. I have always had a great time there, and the cops have been very professional and usually quite pleasant and helpful. BUT, check it out, and I guarantee there's two of them up at night, one at HQ on the radio, and one riding around, maybe two at bar-closing time. Our county (Latimer County, Oklahoma) is 10,600 give or take. I think the total LE guys adds up to 14 including Wilburton Police, reserves, the Sheriff, and the Under-Sheriff and the Sheriff's Deputies. Contrast LA County, with 8500 LAPD, 9000 LASD alone besides the 40+ other agencies and not even counting the Feebs (Feds). NYC has 90,000 including Transit and Port Authorities. Whoa.

Re: Conscription...yeah...I am all for it (but I'm no socialist) and I have seen the benefits (travelled all around Western Europe for work but mostly Scandinavia). Have you ever noticed that people who served in the Army seem to live (and be very vigorous) well up into their 80's? I think its a good idea, ESPECIALLY if there are no ways to get out of it...the poor and the rich, and the people from various areas get moved around and learn about the other side of the country. Its good to earn one's franchise (rights).

Re: Rebooting our country (the U.S.)...well, that's some sacred American stuff there my man. We rebooted it once, that didn't work (First Republic) and then a soft-boot (current government of 1783) and here we are still. Guns=Freedom, but, Guns can also equal total chaos. Its up to the culture of the people. Guns aren't helping anyone in Africa it seems, but, what about the people who are slaughtered with swords, sticks, and have had their heads run over by cars (Rwanda)? And trust me, the current European governments got rebooted by WW2 very nicely...let's see, I can't think of one that operated continuously from the 30's onward. Can anyone help me? If a country in Europe went way overboard into some horrible govt. tomorrow, what would the people do? March with signs (it HAS worked)? Throw a concert? Wear a color (it HAS worked)? History is weird. Sometimes a sit-in works, sometimes its 55 years of endless war against 5 oppressors like Vietnam. That's a peaceful country, right? Pretty quiet from what I hear and nobody from Vietnam is making war, is in the news, or is invading anyone. They're just hanging out.

The U.S. is going through a set of weird changes including socialized banks, big bucks support for bad corporate decisions, and spending the future money of our people on "stimulus". The AIG bail-out alone will cost every working American $1400..."hey dude, can I borrow 1400?"...bizarre, but the populous doesn't seem to care.

What's up next is a who-knows-what but grabbing up all the guns is not part of the equation. The Democrats run the show for now, but, there are Yellow Dog Democrats and Blue Dog Democrats (look them up in wikipedia if you're interested) that will never, ever, be a part of seizing weapons.

Seizing weapons is a coastal thing. Just the SF, and NYC types that foam at that one.

This dude in the cafeteria? "Moronical, basically the stupidest mo-fo that ever lived." In Oklahoma, Hospitals are on the no-carry list (govt. buildings, schools, secure areas in airports and hospitals, town hall meetings and churches) and they post no-carry signs on the doors anyways (oxygen is dangerous) but the guy should have had his weapon by itself with a professionally-made holster around it and nothing else at all in his pocket.

Apparently he had it "loose" in with his money and change. Not good for the public, the weapon-owner, or the weapon. Bad bad bad.

To carry a licensed, concealed weapon is a huge burden. You are not a 9-bill-of-rights American like when I lived in SF, you're not a "I don't want to get involved call 911" type of American like in NYC, you're a 10-bill-of-rights American, and your conduct must be without blemish.

The biggest responsibility is that nobody is hurt by the weapon. The next biggest responsibility is that you are not hurt by it. You MUST keep it concealed at all times...its paramount that it remains "your ace in the hole", because a weapon CREATES problems. In Oklahoma, a weapon-carrying person can't get in a verbal battle, can't tussle (fist fight), can't be a jerk, can't yell "why you breakin' my balls?", can't do any of those things. They teach you all this in the class, and it'll be held against you later if you use your weapon. The law is "wise" to the various set-ups a weapon-holder can try to use to get someone to attack them etc., so, you just have to get/stay out of baloney trouble situations, and you know it. They tell you in the first 30 minutes of the class--mis-use this right and you can get the needle.

Check this out, scenario: A small white woman is being bothered by a big black man. They are tugging and fighting over a bag. You get into the situation, he threatens you, you pull a weapon and shoot him. Guess what? You just got 30 years. How? The scenario is that the woman is selling drugs to the man. His crime is buying drugs. Her crime is selling with a gun. With a gun you say? What gun, she doesn't have a gun...

Its YOUR gun. How?

In Oklahoma, you automatically step into the shoes (legally) of the person you defend...and if that person is committing a criminal act, now you're committing that act, with a gun.

That'll sober one up....stop anyone from being a hero, and keep their nose outta baloney they don't need it to be in.

Half a million pistols being carried every day in Oklahoma for 10 years, and no "wild west ok corral shoot-out" situation yet. Not once. And the twist is, most of the people with permits are men, but most found to be carrying day-to-day are women. Check that one out, Fellow Feminists!

Heavy burden. Conduct without blemish. Severe penalties for mistakes.

Why do I carry? "Perhaps its the infernal distances" -- Richard Harris. I walked up on a rape (by three men on a woman) in a truckstop once where one little pocket pistol would have made the difference. I ran for help, brought help, and all we found were two shoes on the ground. Now, that woman was somewhere in those 300 trucks, but, we couldn't do anything about it.

Its just a tool. Why have fire extinguishers if you can call 911? Same thing.

Cheers to all, and that's all I gotta say about it. Thanks to all for having open minds to listen to my opinion...or for at least listening. I tell you though, its the last right Americans (outside of the cities) will give up...not negotiable, and the reason why the U.N. is so widely reviled (outside the cities). Their choice of public art (gun tied in knots) is part of it.

Trust me, I want it to be all "Star Fleet" and everyone is happy too without any privation, famine, inequality, etc., etc. but that's not today.

Let's get to talking about those macs again! (I just got a store demo MBP17 and its a life-changing experience...slick, quiet, powerful, the coolest computer I've ever owned...I'm gonna use it to resurrect my old DJ skills and learn to VJ as well as continue to program)

"Practice and Enjoy"

G.

dude, you are awesome + 1 billion to this post

[.Andy]

Re: Liking snarking, well, heck, can't stop a man from doing what a man likes!

Re: 10,000 people with 8 RCMP: That's slightly below average. Many US agencies are at around 1.5 sworn personnel-to-1000-citizen ratio. Canada is a totally decent and warmly friendly country, where the big problems seem to revolve around booze and cars. Hardly the wild west. I have always had a great time there, and the cops have been very professional and usually quite pleasant and helpful. BUT, check it out, and I guarantee there's two of them up at night, one at HQ on the radio, and one riding around, maybe two at bar-closing time. Our county (Latimer County, Oklahoma) is 10,600 give or take. I think the total LE guys adds up to 14 including Wilburton Police, reserves, the Sheriff, and the Under-Sheriff and the Sheriff's Deputies. Contrast LA County, with 8500 LAPD, 9000 LASD alone besides the 40+ other agencies and not even counting the Feebs (Feds). NYC has 90,000 including Transit and Port Authorities. Whoa.

Re: Conscription...yeah...I am all for it (but I'm no socialist) and I have seen the benefits (travelled all around Western Europe for work but mostly Scandinavia). Have you ever noticed that people who served in the Army seem to live (and be very vigorous) well up into their 80's? I think its a good idea, ESPECIALLY if there are no ways to get out of it...the poor and the rich, and the people from various areas get moved around and learn about the other side of the country. Its good to earn one's franchise (rights).

Re: Rebooting our country (the U.S.)...well, that's some sacred American stuff there my man. We rebooted it once, that didn't work (First Republic) and then a soft-boot (current government of 1783) and here we are still. Guns=Freedom, but, Guns can also equal total chaos. Its up to the culture of the people. Guns aren't helping anyone in Africa it seems, but, what about the people who are slaughtered with swords, sticks, and have had their heads run over by cars (Rwanda)? And trust me, the current European governments got rebooted by WW2 very nicely...let's see, I can't think of one that operated continuously from the 30's onward. Can anyone help me? If a country in Europe went way overboard into some horrible govt. tomorrow, what would the people do? March with signs (it HAS worked)? Throw a concert? Wear a color (it HAS worked)? History is weird. Sometimes a sit-in works, sometimes its 55 years of endless war against 5 oppressors like Vietnam. That's a peaceful country, right? Pretty quiet from what I hear and nobody from Vietnam is making war, is in the news, or is invading anyone. They're just hanging out.

The U.S. is going through a set of weird changes including socialized banks, big bucks support for bad corporate decisions, and spending the future money of our people on "stimulus". The AIG bail-out alone will cost every working American $1400..."hey dude, can I borrow 1400?"...bizarre, but the populous doesn't seem to care.

What's up next is a who-knows-what but grabbing up all the guns is not part of the equation. The Democrats run the show for now, but, there are Yellow Dog Democrats and Blue Dog Democrats (look them up in wikipedia if you're interested) that will never, ever, be a part of seizing weapons.

Seizing weapons is a coastal thing. Just the SF, and NYC types that foam at that one.

This dude in the cafeteria? "Moronical, basically the stupidest mo-fo that ever lived." In Oklahoma, Hospitals are on the no-carry list (govt. buildings, schools, secure areas in airports and hospitals, town hall meetings and churches) and they post no-carry signs on the doors anyways (oxygen is dangerous) but the guy should have had his weapon by itself with a professionally-made holster around it and nothing else at all in his pocket.

Apparently he had it "loose" in with his money and change. Not good for the public, the weapon-owner, or the weapon. Bad bad bad.

To carry a licensed, concealed weapon is a huge burden. You are not a 9-bill-of-rights American like when I lived in SF, you're not a "I don't want to get involved call 911" type of American like in NYC, you're a 10-bill-of-rights American, and your conduct must be without blemish.

The biggest responsibility is that nobody is hurt by the weapon. The next biggest responsibility is that you are not hurt by it. You MUST keep it concealed at all times...its paramount that it remains "your ace in the hole", because a weapon CREATES problems. In Oklahoma, a weapon-carrying person can't get in a verbal battle, can't tussle (fist fight), can't be a jerk, can't yell "why you breakin' my balls?", can't do any of those things. They teach you all this in the class, and it'll be held against you later if you use your weapon. The law is "wise" to the various set-ups a weapon-holder can try to use to get someone to attack them etc., so, you just have to get/stay out of baloney trouble situations, and you know it. They tell you in the first 30 minutes of the class--mis-use this right and you can get the needle.

Check this out, scenario: A small white woman is being bothered by a big black man. They are tugging and fighting over a bag. You get into the situation, he threatens you, you pull a weapon and shoot him. Guess what? You just got 30 years. How? The scenario is that the woman is selling drugs to the man. His crime is buying drugs. Her crime is selling with a gun. With a gun you say? What gun, she doesn't have a gun...

Its YOUR gun. How?

In Oklahoma, you automatically step into the shoes (legally) of the person you defend...and if that person is committing a criminal act, now you're committing that act, with a gun.

That'll sober one up....stop anyone from being a hero, and keep their nose outta baloney they don't need it to be in.

Half a million pistols being carried every day in Oklahoma for 10 years, and no "wild west ok corral shoot-out" situation yet. Not once. And the twist is, most of the people with permits are men, but most found to be carrying day-to-day are women. Check that one out, Fellow Feminists!

Heavy burden. Conduct without blemish. Severe penalties for mistakes.

Why do I carry? "Perhaps its the infernal distances" -- Richard Harris. I walked up on a rape (by three men on a woman) in a truckstop once where one little pocket pistol would have made the difference. I ran for help, brought help, and all we found were two shoes on the ground. Now, that woman was somewhere in those 300 trucks, but, we couldn't do anything about it.

Its just a tool. Why have fire extinguishers if you can call 911? Same thing.

Cheers to all, and that's all I gotta say about it. Thanks to all for having open minds to listen to my opinion...or for at least listening. I tell you though, its the last right Americans (outside of the cities) will give up...not negotiable, and the reason why the U.N. is so widely reviled (outside the cities). Their choice of public art (gun tied in knots) is part of it.

Trust me, I want it to be all "Star Fleet" and everyone is happy too without any privation, famine, inequality, etc., etc. but that's not today.

Let's get to talking about those macs again! (I just got a store demo MBP17 and its a life-changing experience...slick, quiet, powerful, the coolest computer I've ever owned...I'm gonna use it to resurrect my old DJ skills and learn to VJ as well as continue to program)

"Practice and Enjoy"

G.
Dude rambling fear-mongering doesn't make an argument. - 1 billion to this post. We're back to even.

[iCheese]

How can you even consider that rambling. You can't deny that he backed up his personal decision to carry based on the small number of law enforcement in his county. Who are you to say he doesn't have the right to make the personal decision to be able to fend for himself?

[.Andy]

Who are you to say he doesn't have the right to make the personal decision to be able to fend for himself?
I ever said this at all. Your inability to read a single line of text betrays confidence that you should own and be able to handle a weapon. If you can't logically reason on the internet why on earth would you be able to in a life or death situation?

[marold280]

what an idiot ! LOL!

[iCheese]

I ever said this at all. Your inability to read a single line of text betrays confidence that you should own and be able to handle a weapon. If you can't logically reason on the internet why on earth would you be able to in a life or death situation?

Your opinion that the discussed post was nothing more than rambling led me to believe that you disagreed with everything he posted, which would include his reasoning behind his decision to carry. Not very far fetched at all to come to that conclusion, especially based on your past postings regarding firearm use :rolleyes:

[.Andy]

Not very far fetched at all to come to that conclusion, especially based on your past postings regarding firearm use :rolleyes:
Perhaps you could fill us in on what my opinion of firearms is.

[Cromulent]

We in the U.S. have guns so we can reboot our Govt. and come and save you guys (again)

History lesson.

The USSR saved us in WWII not the USA.

[iCheese]

Perhaps you could fill us in on what my opinion of firearms is.

Give me a break. I am not going to waste my time searching through your post history to bring up specific examples, but in every thread about firearms you make it very well known that you don't care for firearms, nor do you care for decisions to keep a firearm for self defense.

[.Andy]

Give me a break. I am not going to waste my time searching through your post history to bring up specific examples
Apparently you're too busy posting +1 billion below things you agree with ;).

but in every thread about firearms you make it very well known that you don't care for firearms, nor do you care for decisions to keep a firearm for self defense.
That's actually a pretty good summary :).

[iJohnHenry]

History lesson.

The USSR saved us in WWII not the USA.

Ahem. Our boys gave their all, and then some. :mad:

A war on two fronts saved you.

Hitler refused to learn from Napoleon. I think. ;)

[Cromulent]

Ahem. Our boys gave their all, and then some. :mad:

A war on two fronts saved you.

Hitler refused to learn from Napoleon. I think. ;)

If it was just Britain and America we would most likely have lost WWII, or at would have been forced to make peace.

Without the drain on man power that the USSR caused Germany they would have swamped Britain in no time. Thus D-Day would not have happened.

Germany had jet fighters in 1942, heat seeking missiles in 1943 and numerous other technological advancements that the allies just did not have. They were on the brink of developing a bomber that could reach New York. God knows what they would have accomplished if they did not have to worry about the USSR. The Japanese would have kept America busy while the Germans built up leaving America with one of two options nuke the heck out of both Germany and Japan or invade Europe on their own. Wouldn't happen.

Technologically Nazi Germany was amazing. V1s, V2s you name it.

[és:]

Ahem. Our boys gave their all, and then some. :mad:


And I appreciate every drop of blood spilt by your men in your (albeit very late) fight against Hitler. The thing is of course, he is entirely right.

[iJohnHenry]

And I appreciate every drop of blood spilt by your men in your (albeit very late) fight against Hitler. The thing is of course, he is entirely right.

What books have you not been reading Bub??

We were in from the get-go, as a Commonwealth member.

The Yanks took 'till 41 to get their finger out.

[és:]

What books have you not been reading Bub??

We were in from the get-go, as a Commonwealth member.

The Yanks took 'till 41 to get their finger out.

Sorry, the problem is that I didn't read the rest of the thread and I assumed you were American. My bad.

I've read the right books, just not this thread ;)

[iJohnHenry]

Sorry, the problem is that I didn't read the rest of the thread and I assumed you were American. My bad.

I've read the right books, just not this thread ;)

Fair enough. No problem.

This NZ protest thing does play havoc with ones Location. ;)