First Multi-Core Mobile Platform Demonstrated

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/16/first-multi-core-mobile-platform-demonstrated/)

ST-Ericsson and ARM announced (http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-16-2009/0004972700&EDATE=) today that they will be demonstrating the world's first Symmetric Multi Processing (SMP)-enabled mobile platform at a private event at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. The technological breakthrough is the first of its kind and is based on the ARM(R) Cortex(TM)-A9 multicore processor, which represents a significant leap from previous generations of baseband/application processor architectures by providing unprecedented levels of performance and power efficiency.An ST-Ericsson representative explains that having multiple processor cores will improve real-time performance on mobile devices for a better user experience. The demonstration model will, of course, be running the Symbian OS.

The same Cortex-A9 multicore processor has been postulated (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/08/new-multi-core-iphone-with-firmware-3-0/) as the CPU behind the rumors of Apple's next generation iPhone. ZDNet reported that the next generation iPhone could support up to quad-core processors. There has been some debate about how quickly ARM would be able to ramp up these processors as the original timeline for the Cortex-A9 had targeted late 2009/early 2010.

Apple appears to have invested heavily in bringing ARM design and development in-house with their acquisition of P.A. Semi and speculation that they are an architectural licensee of ARM's processors.

Article Link: First Multi-Core Mobile Platform Demonstrated (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/16/first-multi-core-mobile-platform-demonstrated/)

[Drinahn]

Quad-Core iPhones - what next?!

[Prom1]

Yes 4 cores!

DSP, Radio, and 2 application processors; or all application processors.

Symbian OS has supported this for the past year & a half. Now we'll see some real applications take flight.

Btw, ARM themselves do not have to produce the ARM-9/-11 cpu's but Texas Instruments, Freescale and many others in the business can as well.

[zedsdead]

It amazes me that they can fit quad core into an iphone, but only dual core into the iMacs and Macbook Pro's (I know they are completely different chips, but still it's weird).

[Auzburner]

This a great for the iPhone. Hardware wise, it's what I feel it's becoming weak in. Seeing as the current chipset has been in the iPhone for nearly 2 years already, it's getting outdated... I'm curious to see some processor beenchmark comparisons if that is at all possible within the next few months. Although if apple decides to use the processor I'm sure they will have their 4X or 6X faster! Banners everywhere. We'll see, sounds good though.

[locust76]

It amazes me that they can fit quad core into an iphone, but only dual core into the iMacs and Macbook Pro's (I know they are completely different chips, but still it's weird).

It's not a question of "fitting." A Microprocessor is just that, micro. Therefore, 4 of them would still take up very little space (though this is, of course, a problem with mobile devices, where everything is crammed together as closely as possible).

I suspect the reason why you don't see any quad-core Macbooks is because of power consumption and maybe even software compatibility.

[DaveTheGrey]

I really don't have any iphone performance complaints. Payable data roaming price structures or improved 3G speeds would be nicer :D
I can dream, can't I?

[millar876]

This might just tempt me to upgrade from my 2G (EDGE) 16GB iPhone. Current 3G has no apeal to me.

[kamiboy]

good grief, now the pointless arms race for packing more and more unneeded clock cycles into even mobile devices has begun. So same with laptops now we have to look forward to battery times not improving just so application developers can be spoiled and develop bloated inefficient software that do half as much with twice as much power.

[tiguk]

This might just tempt me to upgrade from my 2G (EDGE) 16GB iPhone. Current 3G has no apeal to me.

Why?

Why would the promise of possibly faster processor times tempt you, when the additional features in iPhone 3G did not? It doesn't offer you anything extra, just (possibly) faster applications.

If it's speed improvement you were looking for, perhaps getting an iPhone 3G, with it's HSDPA connectivity, might have been beneficial?

[h.21]

I really don't have any iphone performance complaints. Payable data roaming price structures or improved 3G speeds would be nicer :D
I can dream, can't I?

How about pre-caching popular parts of the internet? Has potential, I'd say..

[talkingfuture]

Looks like there is some exciting stuff in the pipeline for the iPhone.

[Data]

If this would make the phone more responsive i welcome it, i have a 8gig 2g iPhone and it takes a realy log time to load most of the apps, even when there is no internet involved.

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Apple will release a new ad campaign with the title being---The iPhone = The Supercomputer for Your Pocket.

I can't begin to imagine what you could do with a multicore iPhone.

[Neodym]

How about pre-caching popular parts of the internet? Has potential, I'd say..

You're not alone with that thought: HTC today announced their new mobile phones Touch Diamond 2 and HTC Touch Pro 2 in Barcelona (Mobile Communication Fair). Together with those they also announced "Push Internet", which does exactly that - Preload selected internet pages in intervals to have them available instantly on the phone.
I'm just waiting for the first complaints from users without a real flatrate in their data plan or roaming somewhere at "decent" prices... :D

[wonderbread57]

If this would make the phone more responsive i welcome it, i have a 8gig 2g iPhone and it takes a realy log time to load most of the apps, even when there is no internet involved.

I'm also looking for improved responsiveness. A smart phone with a lightening fast UI would be a dream come true. Is it possible by June though is the question. I don't know that I can hold off much longer than that on a new phone purchase.

[fr33 loader]

My only concern would be system requirements for softwares. I hope it won't force me to buy a new phone every year or two so as just to run new softwares downloadable from iTunes. I still haven't come into terms that phones should disposable.

[wonderbread57]

I still haven't come into terms that phones should disposable.

Isn't the iPhone the first phone that has any resale value? As far as I could tell all phones before the iPhone were completely meant to be disposable. They were made to break down in one way or another and platform wise there was no continuity at all. Every phone had it's own garbage UI slapped together. More evidence that they are disposable is that carrier's offer them for free. Nothing free can have much resale value. If the new iPhone is multi-core (JOBs willing) then don't worry, app store will still be accessible to previous phones, it's just the new phone may have an additional section in the apps store or something.

[powers74]

I'm also looking for improved responsiveness. A smart phone with a lightening fast UI would be a dream come true. Is it possible by June though is the question. I don't know that I can hold off much longer than that on a new phone purchase.


Yeah, that would be nice, but it looks like it'd be a scramble.

[8CoreWhore]

Right now I carry 8 iPhones networked in parallel and soon I'll be able to bring that down to 4. :D

[theinstructor]

Personally I will settle for copy and paste functions first...:mad: Then how about an iChat application and a front/rear facing camera to support video conferencing? Hehe...

[fr33 loader]

Isn't the iPhone the first phone that has any resale value? As far as I could tell all phones before the iPhone were completely meant to be disposable. They were made to break down in one way or another and platform wise there was no continuity at all. Every phone had it's own garbage UI slapped together. More evidence that they are disposable is that carrier's offer them for free. Nothing free can have much resale value. If the new iPhone is multi-core (JOBs willing) then don't worry, app store will still be accessible to previous phones, it's just the new phone may have an additional section in the apps store or something.

Sigh....if only iPhones were free every 2 years of contract. It is the logical step though to upgrade system specs. My last phone lasted me for 4 years (and actually still working) so hopefully you can see me where I'm coming from.

[powers74]

Right now I carry 8 iPhones networked in parallel and soon I'll be able to bring that down to 4. :D



Living up to your member ID. I love it.

[polaris20]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Apple will release a new ad campaign with the title being---The iPhone = The Supercomputer for Your Pocket.

I can't begin to imagine what you could do with a multicore iPhone.

With a mini display port and a dock connector to USB adapter? A lot.

[Hattig]

It amazes me that they can fit quad core into an iphone, but only dual core into the iMacs and Macbook Pro's (I know they are completely different chips, but still it's weird).

The Cortex A8 CPU is under 4mm^2 on a 65nm process, including L1 cache. 55nm is now common in the foundries, 45nm is available, and 40nm is a half-node that products will be made on soon. That means that <2mm^2 of die space for a fairly decent CPU later this year, including media instructions. I assume that A9 isn't that much larger. Of course you would have to add on a shared L2 which would add some 10mm^2 for 512KB (a rough guess given that the L2 on the 45nm Atom is about 2/5ths of the 25mm^2 die and 512KB). I think two cores is more likely that four initially because of the cache die area issue.

[branjosef]

I knew it!!! Quad-core iphone nanos coming this year. :D:D:D:D:D

The regular iphone will just see a memory bump :rolleyes:

[bmorris]

my girlfriend's uncle is at that conference.
he's some gsm big whig.

[branjosef]

my girlfriend's uncle is at that conference.
he's some gsm big whig.

He is so lucky. I'm just a regular run-of-the-mill wig. Nothing fancy, just some bangs and a braid in the back. :eek:

[ihabime]

I'm also looking for improved responsiveness. A smart phone with a lightening fast UI would be a dream come true. Is it possible by June though is the question. I don't know that I can hold off much longer than that on a new phone purchase.

The snappiness of the iPhone/iPod touch is more limited by 128mb of ram and the need to swap out to the flash mem every time you switch programs. Complex programs might even need to swap bits in and out on the fly.

Apple may have taken ARM development in house because they want to speed up communications between the cpu, ram, flash and gpu. More cores or ram means more power usage, but packing one core+ram+gpu on a single package with fast interlinks could give you the same boost with better battery life.

[SFStateStudent]

So, now my 3G iPhone will become my backup in a couple of months? :eek:

[alphaod]

Of course it's running Symbian; that is the superior mobile OS.


I can't begin to imagine what you could do with a multicore iPhone.

Sure, watch more pr0n videos at once; maybe even record and encode on the fly!

[plumbingandtech]

The snappiness of the iPhone/iPod touch is more limited by 128mb of ram and the need to swap out to the flash mem every time you switch programs. Complex programs might even need to swap bits in and out on the fly.

Apple may have taken ARM development in house because they want to speed up communications between the cpu, ram, flash and gpu. More cores or ram means more power usage, but packing one core+ram+gpu on a single package with fast interlinks could give you the same boost with better battery life.

Best post of the thread IMO.

[chrmjenkins]

I would be very surprised to see any A9 phones out there this year. We're probably just going to start seeing availability of SoC's with the A9 at the end of this year. If apple could get a A9 based iphone out this year, it would decimate anything on the market. 720p video, flash support a breeze, multiple tasks, etc.

That being said, I'm expecting them to release an cortex A8 based device in the june/july time-frame. The pre is an A8 device as well, as was mentioned.

[branjosef]

Instead of multi-core, how about a battery that lasts longer. Why do I need dual processors to run my ifart program or use my phone as a "level". It's not like it's going to make the phone "level" any faster.


A multi-core iphone with crappy "limited-functionality" apps is like taking viagra and watching Dr. Phil just for the guests. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE - and is a bit creepy.

[Lesser Evets]

When you put this in context of time, it is pretty amazing. Especially because of size of electronics involved.

These iPhones are about as powerful as floor computers from 10 years ago, though the floor models were outfitted with far more stuff to allow greater productivity (outputs, inputs, etc). We could see iPhone 2019 being as powerful as a MacPro 2008, minus perhaps storage and other obvious hardware capabilities, but who knows?

Having these sorts of processors in small devices makes an ultra-light tablet (under 1 lb.) very possible. It's just a shame everyone has been waiting for a couple years and seen nothing special from Apple. If they were hoping to open a tablet market you would think Apple would do the Edisonian business model and advertise it liberally 3-6 months before release.

Summer iPhones might be quite amazing.

[jackfrost123]

Instead of multi-core, how about a battery that lasts longer. Why do I need dual processors to run my ifart program or use my phone as a "level". It's not like it's going to make the phone "level" any faster.


A multi-core iphone with crappy "limited-functionality" apps is like taking viagra and watching Dr. Phil just for the guests. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE - and is a bit creepy.

I hear these A9 Cortex cores will be using a special instruction set optimized for the ifart. It's called the cortexfarter and should bring multifarting and switching between farts to a new level of speed. If these cores go into the iphone we are going to have ourselves not just a smart fart phone, but a premium ultra mobile fart powerhouse. :D

[branjosef]

I hear these A9 Cortex cores will be using a special instruction set optimized for the ifart. It's called the cortexfarter and should bring multifarting and switching between farts to a new level of speed. If these cores go into the iphone we are going to have ourselves not just a smart fart phone, but a premium ultra mobile fart powerhouse. :D

I can't wait. Maybe then they can release the Miley Cyrus app . The app is a life like representation of her and when you shake the phone, she is violently tossed side to side with realistic damage inflicted. It's an app that will incorporate the new multi-core technology when you shake the phone really fast. Their tagline is "Shake the ***** out her a*s".

[Hattig]

Instead of multi-core, how about a battery that lasts longer. Why do I need dual processors to run my ifart program or use my phone as a "level". It's not like it's going to make the phone "level" any faster.

Multi-core doesn't need to mean twice the full power, it can mean the same overall processing ability at lower clockspeeds, which actually leads to a power consumption drop.

In addition consider moving to 45nm, which could have a higher leakage power (i.e., the hotter the die, the more power leaks, so running slower = cooler = less power use) despite peak power savings therefore instead of 1 core at 1GHz it might make sense to have two at 600MHz.

The 2009 iPhone might have A8, it might just be the same SoC it has right now but on 45nm, it could be two ARM11s, it could be a custom implementation of the ARM ISA. It depends on where PA Semi are with their work. I wouldn't expect massive processing power boosts - maybe 2x faster overall, maybe far better graphics and media processor capability.

If the media processing capability is good, you're also looking at the next Apple TV platform.

[nando2323]

good grief, now the pointless arms race for packing more and more unneeded clock cycles into even mobile devices has begun. So same with laptops now we have to look forward to battery times not improving just so application developers can be spoiled and develop bloated inefficient software that do half as much with twice as much power.

Amen!

[firewood]

The current iPhone already has multiple processor cores. The application CPU is unlikely to be the only processor directly controlling all the hardware, including all of the gsm radios, wifi radio, bluetooth radio, media decoders, gfx tile pipeline, usb port, camera and touch sensors.

[Hattig]

The current iPhone already has multiple processor cores. The application CPU is unlikely to be the only processor directly controlling all the hardware, including all of the gsm radios, wifi radio, bluetooth radio, media decoders, gfx tile pipeline, usb port, camera and touch sensors.

Yes, the iPhone has an ARM9 in the baseband CPU, and an ARM7 or ARM9 in the wireless/bluetooth chip, as well as the ARM11 in the main SoC.

This article is talking about symmetric multiprocessor, i.e., classical SMP like your desktop machine (if it's dual/quad core or CPU). That's 2x ARM11s, or more likely 2x ARM Cortex cores. It will still have the asymmetric ARM cores in the other components running their embedded firmware stacks.

[Digitalclips]

Isn't the iPhone the first phone that has any resale value? As far as I could tell all phones before the iPhone were completely meant to be disposable. They were made to break down in one way or another and platform wise there was no continuity at all. Every phone had it's own garbage UI slapped together. More evidence that they are disposable is that carrier's offer them for free. Nothing free can have much resale value. If the new iPhone is multi-core (JOBs willing) then don't worry, app store will still be accessible to previous phones, it's just the new phone may have an additional section in the apps store or something.

Maybe a 'used' iPhone section in the apps store would be a good idea too!

[FortunesFool]

I'm just really excited for the day when an all-in-one device like the iPhone can replace my day to day computing needs by being a mobile workstation. Both at home and at work I could have a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse and a wireless display (conceivable with the next iteration of bluetooth). When I sit down at my desk, I could just put the iPhone in the middle of it and it would connect to both the display and keyboard and BAM!

Of course, I would still retain my MBP for anything processor intensive, but it's certainly an interesting idea to think of the iPhone as being a primary computer. It's already powerful enough to do most of what most people use their computers for with a decent amount of speed. I would just like to see the wireless keyboard/display (or even a dock would suffice for the time being) and a UI that could handle the switch from iPhone interface to keyboard.
Perhaps then the iPhone itself could be used as a multi-touch trackpad?

hmmmmm....

[jackfrost123]

Yes, the iPhone has an ARM9 in the baseband CPU, and an ARM7 or ARM9 in the wireless/bluetooth chip, as well as the ARM11 in the main SoC.

This article is talking about symmetric multiprocessor, i.e., classical SMP like your desktop machine (if it's dual/quad core or CPU). That's 2x ARM11s, or more likely 2x ARM Cortex cores. It will still have the asymmetric ARM cores in the other components running their embedded firmware stacks.

Ι don't get this can you explain, surely unlike the main arms the others must be fractions of the power...

[Hattig]

Ι don't get this can you explain, surely unlike the main arms the others must be fractions of the power...

They're embedded. The main phone has no access to them apart from the hardware interface that they provide.

Yes, the other ARMs are low power, and that's ideal for the networking parts which are active more often than the CPU (e.g., in your pocket the baseband has to listen for incoming texts and phone calls).

You can't run iPhone application software on them. You can upgrade their embedded firmware via software update. They're a hardware function partially written in software running on an embedded CPU so that it can be updated. That's how Draft-N wireless gets updated to Full-N eventually.

[cmwade77]

I know no one is going to like this, but Sony-Ericson should get a patent on using Multi-Core processors in mobile devices, after all if Apple can have a patent on multi-touch in a mobile device, then why not be able to be able to get a patent on Multi-Core in a mobile device?

[danielwsmithee]

The title to this article is completely inaccurate. This is talking about using SMP for the first time not multi-core. Multi-core has been in use for a very long time. SMP, using two identical cores that can access that same cache has not.

For most embedded applications using custom cores for each application makes more sense.

[Digital Skunk]

SO..... quad core iPhone in June..... quad core PCs since 6 months ago..... quad core Macbook Pros in two years :rolleyes:

This is the new Apple I guess.

[jackfrost123]

They're embedded. The main phone has no access to them apart from the hardware interface that they provide.

Yes, the other ARMs are low power, and that's ideal for the networking parts which are active more often than the CPU (e.g., in your pocket the baseband has to listen for incoming texts and phone calls).

You can't run iPhone application software on them. You can upgrade their embedded firmware via software update. They're a hardware function partially written in software running on an embedded CPU so that it can be updated. That's how Draft-N wireless gets updated to Full-N eventually.

thanks buddy!

[Lesser Evets]

This is the new Apple I guess.

This is a surprise to you?
Steve Job openly broadcasted this from stage in summer 2007.

Mobile platform is where the money is at--phones, iPods, etc. Apple will go with the money, like anyone. They'll have to return to their non-mobile computers in time, but they were going to slow down for a couple years.

[Thanatoast]

I'm just really excited for the day when an all-in-one device like the iPhone can replace my day to day computing needs by being a mobile workstation. Both at home and at work I could have a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse and a wireless display (conceivable with the next iteration of bluetooth). When I sit down at my desk, I could just put the iPhone in the middle of it and it would connect to both the display and keyboard and BAM!

Of course, I would still retain my MBP for anything processor intensive, but it's certainly an interesting idea to think of the iPhone as being a primary computer. It's already powerful enough to do most of what most people use their computers for with a decent amount of speed. I would just like to see the wireless keyboard/display (or even a dock would suffice for the time being) and a UI that could handle the switch from iPhone interface to keyboard.
Perhaps then the iPhone itself could be used as a multi-touch trackpad?

hmmmmm....

+1

I don't know how small those mini display ports are but if you can fit one on the iPhone then all of a sudden apple isn't selling phones anymore, it's selling ultra-small, ultra-portable computers. They could hit or create an entire new customer base that doesn't need or can't afford a new computer but does need a phone and internet surfing device/word processor.

The iPhone really *could* be revolutionary, *again*, if apple goes this direction.

[JGowan]

I hope it won't force me to buy a new phone every year or two so as just to run new softwares downloadable from iTunes. I still haven't come into terms that phones should disposable.The beautiful thing about the iPhone is that, at $200, how can you NOT upgrade every two years? Also, why DISPOSE of your outdated iPhone,... it's still be better than the iPod touch -- use it as such or give it to a family member. It would make an excellent way of introducing family/close friends to the iPhone (and to Apple).
Sigh....if only iPhones were free every 2 years of contract. It is the logical step though to upgrade system specs. My last phone lasted me for 4 years (and actually still working) so hopefully you can see me where I'm coming from.No, I don't.

Free?! You DO realize that AT&T pays Apple about $400 for every phone sold for a mere $200. You're getting a very expensive piece of kit for about $8 a month over the course of 2yrs,... hardly something to be looking a gift horse in the mouth, I say. I would imagine that, in a couple of years when AT&T's 5 year exclusive contract runs out and Apple can sell to everyone that you'll get your wish and the carriers will eat the whole amount. Until then, I think $8/mo. is worth the upgrading.

Of course, with a screenname like Free loader,…

[Hattig]

thanks buddy!

No problem!

It's hard to enumerate where ARM cores are used now, they're 'shipping' around a billion every quarter these days. 'Shipping' because they're licensed out, and ARM often don't know where they're used, only that they're getting licensing revenue (which for the ARM7s is probably cents per device). It'll soon get to the point where the average person has over 10 ARM CPUs on their person during the day.

[wonderbread57]

This is a surprise to you?
Steve Job openly broadcasted this from stage in summer 2007.

Mobile platform is where the money is at--phones, iPods, etc. Apple will go with the money, like anyone. They'll have to return to their non-mobile computers in time, but they were going to slow down for a couple years.

According to Apple's 2008 SEC revenue filing, MacBooks make up 8.7B, Ipod 9.1B and iPhone 1.8B. MacBooks ARE mobile and there's no doubting they are where the money is for Apple. They would be foolish to leave the MacBook in the dust technology wise. Expect quad+ core MB/MBP also in June/July with the release of Leopard.
http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/fy08rev.jpg

[chrmjenkins]

For those that are interested, Texas Instruments just announced their OMAP 4xxx which will feature multiple cortex a9 cores. They are putting volume availability at H2 2010, reinforcing the notion we won't see any A9 parts until 2010. For what it's worth, they also mention 45nm versions of the omap 3xxx series (the pre uses the 34xx, a 65nm version). They claim 25% power savings and 75% better graphics with these new chips.

So, seeing 45nm A8 parts from apple this summer could definitely happen, and they would have one leg up on the pre when it comes to battery life.

http://www.eetimes.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=214200173&pgno=1

[rtdunham]

I hear these A9 Cortex cores will be using a special instruction set optimized for the ifart. It's called the cortexfarter and should bring multifarting and switching between farts to a new level of speed. If these cores go into the iphone we are going to have ourselves not just a smart fart phone, but a premium ultra mobile fart powerhouse. :D

I've been listening to fart-app comments for weeks and now it's gotta be said:

If you want to hear the ultimate riff on the subject, get Andy Andrews' CD "My Life So Far" and listen to "Baseball, boys and bad words."

It's a 16:08 jewelry-store of laughs, but the four minutes starting at 11:40 are the counter where the rarest, brightest gems are displayed. I dare you to listen and then say your time wasn't well spent.

disclaimer: I'm an atheist and the album/cut I'm endorsing is by a Christian motivational speaker. If either of those facts turns you off (though there's no evangelizing or even proselytizing in the cut), too bad. The brave will listen to it and decide for themselves--and never regret it. If you're really brave, listen from the start of the cut so the finely constructed comedy can build up even better to the eventual four-minute punchline (no, it's not a four-minute sound effect: it's a hilarious demonstration of humor that makes an iFart app pathetic in comparison, yet linked by subject matter). Do it!

[jackfrost123]

I've been listening to fart-app comments for weeks and now it's gotta be said:

If you want to hear the ultimate riff on the subject, get Andy Andrews' CD "My Life So Far" and listen to "Baseball, boys and bad words."

It's a 16:08 jewelry-store of laughs, but the four minutes starting at 11:40 are the counter where the rarest, brightest gems are displayed. I defy you to listen without laughing yourself silly.

disclaimer: I'm an atheist and the album/cut I'm endorsing is by a Christian motivational speaker. Now, I'm guessing, many of you are turned off. Too bad. The brave will listen to it and decide for themselves. You'll never regret it. Oh, and if you're really brave, listen from the start. It's comedy finely constructed, so there's a nice build-up to the eventual four-minute punchline.

I will definately give it a go. I am not turned off by the christian thing, although an agnostic myself, there are far worse things to be turned off by.

[wizard]

It amazes me that they can fit quad core into an iphone, but only dual core into the iMacs and Macbook Pro's (I know they are completely different chips, but still it's weird).

First; you need to realize that there are a number of ARM processors in the current iPhone already. Sure they are embedded in different support chips but the are still processors.

Second; each ARM processor is extremely small relative to any desktop processor. Some ARM processors have less than 40,000 transistors compared to millions or possibly billions in a desk top processor. So a quad core chip where one or more cores is applied to applications processing is a snap with ARM.

This highlights an important issues that many might not be aware of, not all the cores in these systems will need or have to run the same OS. One or more could be running a realtime OS for baseband processing for example. A desktop system shouldn't be seen as an analog to how tasks on a cell phone would be handled.

As to desktop machines Apple could have quad cores in their desktops today if they wanted. These are a completely different class of processor though. It is a bit like comparing a 4 cylinder automobile with an airplane for transportation. A dual core ARM for example would implement that many more transistors than the original 68000 used in the first MACs. Granted the new Cortex processors are a bit bigger than ARMs current popular processors but the point remains.

The other thing to realize is that an ARM processor takes up little space on a die thus their popularity in SoC designs, ASICs and programmable logic. It isn't a question of how a high integration design will come to iPhone but when.


Dave

[wonderbread57]

As to desktop machines Apple could have quad cores in their desktops today if they wanted.

If they wanted?

http://images.apple.com/macpro/images/index_hero20080108.png (http://www.apple.com/macpro/)

[chrmjenkins]

Wonderbread, he's probably differentiating desktop (mac mini, imac) from workstation (mac pro).

[alexbates]

4-core iPhones G3's with a black aluminum back would be the day...

[gnasher729]

Instead of multi-core, how about a battery that lasts longer. Why do I need dual processors to run my ifart program or use my phone as a "level". It's not like it's going to make the phone "level" any faster.
You may not believe it, but multiple cores, used properly, will make the battery last longer.

[chrmjenkins]

You may not believe it, but multiple cores, used properly, will make the battery last longer.

Yeah, they absolutely should. With core disabling and clock throttling enabled, you should definitely see an improvement in battery usage. Here's hoping the innovations in the new 17 MBP trickle into the new iphone design as well.

[twoodcc]

alright! can't wait for the new iphone coming this summer. i hope these processors are ready in time

[branjosef]

Now if only commodore can get on board, we can really open up this technology and bring it on home :D Obama was right, this is change I can believe in. With the new stimulus package and the multi-core technology, the level of jobs that this phone can complete just increased ten fold. And to think..all this came from a man named Steve Jobs.

[Sehnsucht]

...So same with laptops now we have to look forward to battery times not improving just so application developers can be spoiled and develop bloated inefficient software that do half as much with twice as much power.

:rolleyes: That's what Mi¢ro$oft will be doing with WinMo or whatever new "iPhone killer" they're planning to crap out.

[wizard]

Instead of multi-core, how about a battery that lasts longer.

A higher integration device would save you power by default. That is one of the big advantages to having everything on one die as it eliminates a lot of current lost to line drivers.

Second; you can't assume that the SMP hardware would be used like it is on a desktop. It would be possible and even likely that one or more cores would be running an embedded reatime OS to handle baseband processing and such. Qualcomm even had a description of such an arraingement on their web site. That is not to say Apple will do thing that way just that it is possible.

Notably a high performance SMP core could potentially reduce the number of processors in the current iPhone. There is a lot of hedging here with words like could and might but that simply acknowledges that Apple has all sorts of paths it could follow here. The only thing that really needs to remain the same on the next iPhone is the user API. The trend in the industry though is to embed a lot of intelligence into pheripherial devices these days, even the lowly came chip these days has built in processing capability.

The biggest fear I have is that Apple moves a lot of external functionality on to the system processor and doesn't increase the RAM allotment in a significant way. As much as it needs a faster CPU iPhone also needs more RAM.


Why do I need dual processors to run my ifart program or use my phone as a "level". It's not like it's going to make the phone "level" any faster.

Well for the simple minded apps the iPhone is OK today. The problem is it is a good platform for running more advanced apps that could use the performance. Even the packaged apps like Safari and Mail could use a bit more horse power.

Right now many of us consider the iPhone's performance as bareable. Just recieving an E-Mail while in Safari can have a big impact on the user interface. Only part of this is due to the lack of RAM. Which brings up another point, a custom chip can provide for larger cache and possibly on chip RAM.


A multi-core iphone with crappy "limited-functionality" apps is like taking viagra and watching Dr. Phil just for the guests. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE - and is a bit creepy.
Well if limited functionality Apps is all that you run then that is your problem. Personally I want to see the functionality of the included apps increase and to do so requires more processor power. Power that is delivered by a faster CPU and more RAM. Apple may not like this but even Safari on iPhone has limitations that need to be overcomed that require more performance to implement.

Each time more performance is made available on a given device the broader the software portfolio becomes. A faster more capable iPhone simply means that Apple could realize a device that many of us dream about.


Dave

[branjosef]

A higher integration device would save you power by default. That is one of the big advantages to having everything on one die as it eliminates a lot of current lost to line drivers.

Second; you can't assume that the SMP hardware would be used like it is on a desktop. It would be possible and even likely that one or more cores would be running an embedded reatime OS to handle baseband processing and such. Qualcomm even had a description of such an arraingement on their web site. That is not to say Apple will do thing that way just that it is possible.

Notably a high performance SMP core could potentially reduce the number of processors in the current iPhone. There is a lot of hedging here with words like could and might but that simply acknowledges that Apple has all sorts of paths it could follow here. The only thing that really needs to remain the same on the next iPhone is the user API. The trend in the industry though is to embed a lot of intelligence into pheripherial devices these days, even the lowly came chip these days has built in processing capability.

The biggest fear I have is that Apple moves a lot of external functionality on to the system processor and doesn't increase the RAM allotment in a significant way. As much as it needs a faster CPU iPhone also needs more RAM.


Well for the simple minded apps the iPhone is OK today. The problem is it is a good platform for running more advanced apps that could use the performance. Even the packaged apps like Safari and Mail could use a bit more horse power.

Right now many of us consider the iPhone's performance as bareable. Just recieving an E-Mail while in Safari can have a big impact on the user interface. Only part of this is due to the lack of RAM. Which brings up another point, a custom chip can provide for larger cache and possibly on chip RAM.

Well if limited functionality Apps is all that you run then that is your problem. Personally I want to see the functionality of the included apps increase and to do so requires more processor power. Power that is delivered by a faster CPU and more RAM. Apple may not like this but even Safari on iPhone has limitations that need to be overcomed that require more performance to implement.

Each time more performance is made available on a given device the broader the software portfolio becomes. A faster more capable iPhone simply means that Apple could realize a device that many of us dream about.


Dave


Dave,

I fully get everything you are saying, but I think you were reading into my comment way to much. I was being cynical. I would love to have mutli-core technology on the iphone. I was griping about the battery, but from the posts it looks like this would help to increase the battery life which is cool. Hopefully with this ...apple will consider allowing apps with more access (thereby icreasing functionality) to the iphone since now it should have the capability to handle more resource intensive tasks.

:)

[JoeDMD]

I'm just really excited for the day when an all-in-one device like the iPhone can replace my day to day computing needs by being a mobile workstation. Both at home and at work I could have a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse and a wireless display (conceivable with the next iteration of bluetooth). When I sit down at my desk, I could just put the iPhone in the middle of it and it would connect to both the display and keyboard and BAM!

Of course, I would still retain my MBP for anything processor intensive, but it's certainly an interesting idea to think of the iPhone as being a primary computer. It's already powerful enough to do most of what most people use their computers for with a decent amount of speed. I would just like to see the wireless keyboard/display (or even a dock would suffice for the time being) and a UI that could handle the switch from iPhone interface to keyboard.
Perhaps then the iPhone itself could be used as a multi-touch trackpad?

hmmmmm....

The next iphone/ipod is the next mini w/dock containing video card & ports.

[=MuLti-CeLL=]

This NVIDIA Tegra looks nice. ;)

http://www.9to5mac.com/nvidia-tegra-apple

And I totally agree with 'wizard', the iPhone needs more RAM!!!

[chrmjenkins]

This NVIDIA Tegra looks nice. ;)

http://www.9to5mac.com/nvidia-tegra-apple

And I totally agree with 'wizard', the iPhone needs more RAM!!!
Not going to happen. Why go through the trouble of licensing ARM and Img Tech cores and buying PA semi if they don't intend to fully utilize them?

[Beric]

Looks very interesting.

Although I have no interest whatsoever in an iPhone (A $2000+ contract!?!), most iPhone features leak over to the iPod Touch, and that's important to me, since I have plenty of interest in getting the next generation.

Just wondering: will this mean there might be multiple apps running at once in the next generation?

[commander.data]

Like some others, I too doubt there is a significant need for a quad core ARM as the main system processor unless some of the functionality of the other custom ARMs are brought into the main OS and done by the main CPU. I think Apple wouldn't want to do that though since it'll probably make the iPhone more like a regular computer and easier to crack. For certain functions, it makes sense to isolate them to their own firmware and run them on custom, separate, low-power processors.

Personally, I think the best way to balance performance and power consumption would be to just use a dual-core ARM9 as the main processor and a new PowerVR SGX with OpenCL acceleration rather than a quad core CPU. Applications that would see benefits on quad core are mainly media apps that would see better acceleration on GPGPU anyways, and for applications that don't benefit from quad cores, which are most of them, a dual core will be more power and space efficient.

[megfilmworks]

The beautiful thing about the iPhone is that, at $200, how can you NOT upgrade every two years? Also, why DISPOSE of your outdated iPhone,... it's still be better than the iPod touch -- use it as such or give it to a family member. It would make an excellent way of introducing family/close friends to the iPhone (and to Apple).
I use my original iPhone as an iPod and to run all the apps I have purchased. Wifi still works great, apps sync, mobileme etc.

[wonderbread57]

Good story by pc mag on the Multi-core ARMs:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341081,00.asp

In the article TI says the new chip set (based on ARM9 Coretex) can do 1080p video RECORDING:
"TI today unveiled a mobile-phone platform at the Mobile World Congress, capable of recording 1080p video, shooting 20-megapixel images, and playing MP3s for a week on one battery charge. The OMAP 4 platform is the first to use ARM's multi-core Cortex-A9 processor, which can offer up to seven times the computing performance of today's top smartphones, according to TI."

Author of the article speculates that phones based on this tech shouldn't start to appear until 2011:
"OMAP 4 chipsets will go into production in the second half of 2010, so you should see phones based on these chips sometime in 2011. (The Palm Pre 3, perhaps?)"

[chrmjenkins]

For those that are interested, Texas Instruments just announced their OMAP 4xxx which will feature multiple cortex a9 cores. They are putting volume availability at H2 2010, reinforcing the notion we won't see any A9 parts until 2010. For what it's worth, they also mention 45nm versions of the omap 3xxx series (the pre uses the 34xx, a 65nm version). They claim 25% power savings and 75% better graphics with these new chips.

So, seeing 45nm A8 parts from apple this summer could definitely happen, and they would have one leg up on the pre when it comes to battery life.

http://www.eetimes.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=214200173&pgno=1

Beat you to it, see above.

Good story by pc mag on the Multi-core ARMs:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2341081,00.asp

In the article TI says the new chip set (based on ARM9 Coretex) can do 1080p video RECORDING:
"TI today unveiled a mobile-phone platform at the Mobile World Congress, capable of recording 1080p video, shooting 20-megapixel images, and playing MP3s for a week on one battery charge. The OMAP 4 platform is the first to use ARM's multi-core Cortex-A9 processor, which can offer up to seven times the computing performance of today's top smartphones, according to TI."

Author of the article speculates that phones based on this tech shouldn't start to appear until 2011:
"OMAP 4 chipsets will go into production in the second half of 2010, so you should see phones based on these chips sometime in 2011. (The Palm Pre 3, perhaps?)"

BTW, there is no such thing as ARM9 Cortex. ARM9 is a completely different line of cores. The cortex cores have names that are "Ax" where x is either 8 or 9 (currently). The cortex cores have levels of functionality the other ARM cores don't, like superscalar architectures and out-of-order execution (for the A9).

[Lesser Evets]

They would be foolish to leave the MacBook in the dust technology wise. [/IMG]

I didn't say "leave them in the dust" and the technology is NOT left in the dust. At worst it is lagging. Due to the needs to accomplish goals of video and sound editing, especially in relationship to the resolution, the current computer configurations are adequate. If the internet was sped up it might change the playing field. We're at a lag period at this time when the technology development for the higher end processing and memory is slowing down compared to what is capable with reworking cheaper, smaller tech to fit everyday needs/wants, like the iPod and iPhone.

When you show this chart you are breaking down items which need conjoining. Mobile platforms combine - iPod, iPhone, Music and some Apps/Peripherals. So we are looking at $15 B (very approx) versus maybe $9 B for the Macbooks and $6 B for desktops. I am not sure how this chart shows gains vs. outlay, but the portable market grabs MORE people who need MORE software and MORE music, and the software and music are like the fries at McD's--pure cash in pocket.

Apple, in my opinion, should have updated their whole computer line by now. It isn't wise to let things lapse this long. The only business excuse I can contemplate is that there is a large revamp of the working of their non-mobile hardware, but I doubt it is happening that drastically. Maybe a tablet would somehow change all their other devices in some way, but the speculation on a tablet is fantasy at this time.

[Mr. Giver '94]

Quad Core FTW!~!!!!:)

1 OS/software
2 Network/Connection
3 Apps
4 Processes/Multitasking

[thisguyukno]

Why?

Why would the promise of possibly faster processor times tempt you, when the additional features in iPhone 3G did not? It doesn't offer you anything extra, just (possibly) faster applications.

If it's speed improvement you were looking for, perhaps getting an iPhone 3G, with it's HSDPA connectivity, might have been beneficial?

Sure, HSDPA connectivity is beneficial, but don't forget that there are a lot of iPhone users that use WiFi as much as they use their data plans to connect to the internet. That being said, the Safari App tends freezes or crashes sometimes on very complicated websites, or especially PDF pages. It's not always about how fast you can download something. It's can the iPhone handle it. And running applications faster means WORLDS to me, as I'm sure it does for everyone else.

Multi-core ARMs not only mean running Apps currently available on the iPhone faster, it could mean running Apps that were never pragmatically possible before, especially in the gaming segment, which is very popular at the App Store. Maybe even the possibility of running Apps in the background.

The iPhone 3G hasn't tempted all of us out there who still have 2G's (I bought mine in March because I couldn't wait until June for the 3G). But with a faster processor AND all the upgrades the 3G had on the 2G - that will be a deal maker for me and perhaps other 2G owners like myself, the whole package of upgrades if not for just the processor itself.

[iansilv]

With a mini display port and a dock connector to USB adapter? A lot.

Yup- how cool would it be to literally dock your iphone in to a dock that had a mini display port and use a full size screen- and run actual snow leopard- sure- not the fastest thing in the world, but for writing documents and stuff- it would work.

[branjosef]

So with multi-core in the iphone, does that mean I need to buy a new case??? :D

[iMacmatician]

Expect quad+ core MB/MBP also in June/July with the release of Leopard.Doubt it, due to heat and/or price reasons. :(

Just wondering: will this mean there might be multiple apps running at once in the next generation?Possibly. For a mini-tablet, I would be surprised if it did not have multitasking.

[wizard]

Like some others, I too doubt there is a significant need for a quad core ARM as the main system processor unless some of the functionality of the other custom ARMs are brought into the main OS and done by the main CPU.

The thing with the mobile space is that it might be more power stingy to run your tasks On separate processors rather than a much faster single processor. Especially on an iPhone type device that always has background programs running.

I think Apple wouldn't want to do that though since it'll probably make the iPhone more like a regular computer and easier to crack. For certain functions, it makes sense to isolate them to their own firmware and run them on custom, separate, low-power processors.

More computer like is exactly what Apples customers want. You do have a point with respect to firmware isolation but that is a minor issue.


Personally, I think the best way to balance performance and power consumption would be to just use a dual-core ARM9 as the main processor and a new PowerVR SGX with OpenCL acceleration rather than a quad core CPU. Applications that would see benefits on quad core are mainly media apps that would see better acceleration on GPGPU anyways, and for applications that don't benefit from quad cores, which are most of them,

I see the above as a fundamental mistake as iPhone OS is already loaded with apps that load it down and are not likely to benefit greatly from GPU processing. In fact one of the biggest demands on iPhone, background user apps, would not likely benefit much at all from GPU acceleration. GPU acceleration simply isn't the universal solution many think it is.

Another thing to consider is that the mobile GPUs don't have a lot of extra execution units to throw around. The next gen mobile chips will only have 16 cores available for OpenCL if I recall correctly.

a dual core will be more power and space efficient.

Apples next iPhone could very well be dual core from the users perspective. As long as it addresses user forground app performance and added RAM I'd be happy.

[olternaut]

Looks like there is some exciting stuff in the pipeline for the iPhone.

There had better be......for Apple's sake.

[ebouwman]

Quad-Core iPhones - what next?!

Quad core calculators, and toilets :rolleyes:

[chrmjenkins]

Quad core calculators, and toilets :rolleyes:

No quad core apples? ;)

[iMacmatician]

Quad core calculators, and toilets :rolleyes:I actually want a quad-core graphing calculator.

To solve big equations, graph 3D graphs (not that wireframe-looking stuff, something that actually looks realistic), draw dynamic graphs, etc. fast.

[Bye Bye Baby]

I just want a mini- a new mini. A good mini. A mini with a processor not older than me.
:D

[branjosef]

Quad-core contraceptives.... Twice the stopping power, but all the feeling

[ff11]

Personally I will settle for copy and paste functions first...:mad: Then how about an iChat application and a front/rear facing camera to support video conferencing? Hehe...

You can use a 3rd party app for copy / paste on the iPhone (iCopy, Magicpad, others?).

[Digital Skunk]

Looks very interesting.

Although I have no interest whatsoever in an iPhone (A $2000+ contract!?!), most iPhone features leak over to the iPod Touch, and that's important to me, since I have plenty of interest in getting the next generation.

Just wondering: will this mean there might be multiple apps running at once in the next generation?

I never thought about that.... will there be a multi-core iPod Touch?

That would be more promising than a quad core iPhone in my opinion. Since the iPT doesn't come with a two year contract.

[Lone Deranger]

I wonder when we'll see the first actively cooled mobile phones. Imagine a big fat Zalmann Cooler Master strapped on your iPhone :D

good grief, now the pointless arms race for packing more and more unneeded clock cycles into even mobile devices has begun. So same with laptops now we have to look forward to battery times not improving just so application developers can be spoiled and develop bloated inefficient software that do half as much with twice as much power.

[branjosef]

Bring on the quad-core iphone :eek:

[iMacmatician]

I wonder when we'll see the first actively cooled mobile phones. Imagine a big fat Zalmann Cooler Master strapped on your iPhone :DThe new iPhone G5.

[Mackan]

How about removable battery instead of more cores?

[thoshino]

The question of how many processing cores the cellphones of 2010-2011 will have is not remotely as interesting as what kind of functionality is available today and will be available in the near future.
For example, will the iPhone integrate with Logic so that those of us (I believe quite many) who make original recordings will be able to setup and start recordings away from the computer? Or as another member suggested: Will we be able to use the Iphone as a remote for iTunes and Quicktime, perhaps with the Apple TV?
On a more humorous note: When will we get Crystal Chronicles with support for four iPhones? :D

Apple has a great set of lifestyle electronics, however imho a lot more could be done on integration.

Furthermore, given more than two cores (in some cases given more than one), talking about what individual cores will be doing is like predicting the position of atoms, even for most application developers. Distributing work across computing resources will be done on the OS level, that's what Open CL is for. Application programmers working under an Object Oriented paradigm should think about threading were appropriate and C programmers can just sit back and give pointers. :D
http://xkcd.com/138/

[branjosef]

Wow, I can't wait to get my hands on a nice refurb once these new iphones are released

[nerdbert]

According to Apple's 2008 SEC revenue filing, MacBooks make up 8.7B, Ipod 9.1B and iPhone 1.8B. MacBooks ARE mobile and there's no doubting they are where the money is for Apple. They would be foolish to leave the MacBook in the dust technology wise. Expect quad+ core MB/MBP also in June/July with the release of Leopard.

True, but that's a different aspect. Try to remember the keynote announcing the original iPhone (if you watched it). The market for mobile phones is way larger than the one for PCs. Apple aimed for 1% market share and so far they did slightly better.

In other words: If the iPhone had the same market share in the mobile phones segment as the Macbook and MBP it would generate more revenue than both of them.

That doesn't mean that laptops are not important anymore - quite to the contrary. But the iPhone ensures that Apple gets a piece of a much larger cake.

It's essential to plan for the day every household already owns 4 ipods and starts wondering why they cost up to 3x more than the competition. Honestly, they can't come up with a new generation which does anything better than the current line (when it comes to playing music). More storage won't convince anyone, because most people don't have 160GB of music to load. A smaller form factor is not a real option (competition is much better anyways). There are also very few ways to improve the user interface. Even my 3G iPod does this quite well.

iPods currently generate more revenue than their core business (laptops). If I was working there, I'd worry. There is no way those 9.1B will come in forever.

edit: BTW: To those people saying that a quad-core will be an incentive to buy a new iPhone: It's marketing. Maybe a single core design would be more effective, but the 4-core design feature seems to convince everyone without any clue about computer architecture to instantly buy it. Please stop it. It's like in 2003 when many people thought 64 bit CPU's are 2 times as fast. Please read a little before you get fooled. I have checked CPU load for some slow applications and it's not CPU-related most of the time.

[dsalehipour]

So does anyone have an idea of when the next iphone is coming out? i heard march but i don't know about that.

:apple:So does anyone have an idea?:apple:

[branjosef]

I'm sure apple has something up there sleeves. I bet they'll introduce a quad-core iphone but no longer offer 3G, just edge, because apple has a knack for "just" giving us what we ask for. I could see it now....

[Syrus28]

So does anyone have an idea of when the next iphone is coming out? i heard march but i don't know about that.

:apple:So does anyone have an idea?:apple:

I would guess June-July, just like the previous iPhones. I would think they want to catch the original iPhone owners as soon as their contracts are up.

[mdriftmeyer]

How about pre-caching popular parts of the internet? Has potential, I'd say..

That's a bad idea where business creeps too far into engineering.

If you want a cache'd set up, then how about Servers provide cached tiers that business customers can subscribe to where they periodically refresh their content, leaving the phone subscriber to only fetch ``changes'' from their databases every so many hours, days or weeks.

[SandynJosh]

Yes 4 cores!

DSP, Radio, and 2 application processors; or all application processors.



Oh and don't forget the free pocket warmer at no extra charge. ;)

[SandynJosh]

HTC today announced their new mobile phones Touch Diamond 2 and HTC Touch Pro 2 in Barcelona (Mobile Communication Fair).

At the same time today Microsoft's Steve Balmer announced that Microsoft will be doing the very same thing. "We've been copying whatever anyone, and especially Apple, comes up with for decades and will continue to aggressively follow everyone making loud announcements of our intentions."

Balmore unveiled a new 8 core architecture with each core running one of the flavors of Vista. "Not only will we be able to run background tasks, but in case of a blue screen crash the other core will be able to keep running different internet tasks. We intend to make Ex-President Bush vision of 'the internets' a reality."

As usual after one of Steve Balmer's announcements, Microsoft's stock fell five points.

[wonderbread57]

I'm sure apple has something up there sleeves. I bet they'll introduce a quad-core iphone but no longer offer 3G, just edge, because apple has a knack for "just" giving us what we ask for. I could see it now....

However long you spent on that pic was too long. :rolleyes:

[SandynJosh]

I hear these A9 Cortex cores will be using a special instruction set optimized for the ifart. It's called the cortexfarter and should bring multifarting and switching between farts to a new level of speed. If these cores go into the iphone we are going to have ourselves not just a smart fart phone, but a premium ultra mobile fart powerhouse. :D

This gonna knock some people right off their feet!

[BTW]

Quad-Core iPhones - what next?!

A Mini DisplayPort to hook it update to a Cinema Display and replace your laptop or desktop. Of course 32Gb, 64Gb, or more RAM would be desired. You'd also need bluetooth for a mouse and keyboard hook-up.

Of course the high-end one would forego the DisplayPort and have a mini-projector built-in to sport a large high-res display on any wall.

[Digital Skunk]

A Mini DisplayPort to hook it update to a Cinema Display and replace your laptop or desktop. Of course 32Gb, 64Gb, or more RAM would be desired. You'd also need bluetooth for a mouse and keyboard hook-up.

Of course the high-end one would forego the DisplayPort and have a mini-projector built-in to sport a large high-res display on any wall.

This is true, and neither of those models will come with copy/paste or allow you to open, edit, save, send MS Office or iWork documents.

[kinkster]

I'm sure apple has something up there sleeves. I bet they'll introduce a quad-core iphone but no longer offer 3G, just edge, because apple has a knack for "just" giving us what we ask for. I could see it now....


I wonder if they'll continue basing the names on new technologies in the phone. Maybe something to do with quad core?

Wouldn't be as good naming as 3G though since the advantages of having a quad core aren't as obvious to most people.

[winterspan]

I think it is irresponsible for the author of this article to suggest the next iPhone could even possibly use an ARM Cortex-A9 based CPU, and particularly not to even mention the (single core only) ARM Cortex-A8, which is the direct successor to the ARM 11(iPhone), and which is already available in many system-on-a-chips from the likes of T.I. (OMAP3), Qualcomm, Samsung, etc. The Cortex-A9 is the successor of A8, and not only adds multi-core support, but the cores are an out-of-order processing evolution of the A8.

Anyways, my point is that it is very unlikely the very next iPhone will use a Cortex-A9 because they are not even sampling yet, and production system-on-a-chips utilizing the cores won't even be in production until Q2 2010. (See T.I. OMAP4).

It is MUCH MORE likely the next iPhone will use a chip with the ARM Cortex-A8 which though limited to single core, is twice as fast as an ARM11 at the same clock speed, and which run at between 600-1000+Mhz. This core is used in the T.I. OMAP3 series which is used in the new Palm Pre..

[Prom1]

I think it is irresponsible for the author of this article to suggest the next iPhone could even possibly use an ARM Cortex-A9 based CPU, and particularly not to even mention the (single core only) ARM Cortex-A8, which is the direct successor to the ARM 11(iPhone), and which is already available in many system-on-a-chips from the likes of T.I. (OMAP3), Qualcomm, Samsung, etc. The Cortex-A9 is the successor of A8, and not only adds multi-core support, but the cores are an out-of-order processing evolution of the A8.

Anyways, my point is that it is very unlikely the very next iPhone will use a Cortex-A9 because they are not even sampling yet, and production system-on-a-chips utilizing the cores won't even be in production until Q2 2010. (See T.I. OMAP4).

It is MUCH MORE likely the next iPhone will use a chip with the ARM Cortex-A8 which though limited to single core, is twice as fast as an ARM11 at the same clock speed, and which run at between 600-1000+Mhz. This core is used in the T.I. OMAP3 series which is used in the new Palm Pre..

Got me lost on this.
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9955815446.html?kc=rss

TI OMAP4 uses the same cpu core ARMv7 architecture as the others.

TI was an early adopter of ARM Ltd.'s earlier Cortex-A8 processor core, the first ARM core to use the superscalar (more than one instruction per cycle) ARMv7 architecture. Now, as TI's competitors are beginning to sample ARMv7-based SoCs of their own, TI has unveiled its dual-core OMAP4 roadmap.

At the heart of OMAP4 is ARM Ltd's Cortex A9 dual-core processor. Implementing the same ARMv7 used on ARM's Cortex A8, the A9 adds ARM's MPCore interconnect layer, for support of up to four cores. However, the initial OMAP4 chips will incorporate only two ARM cores, clocked "above 1GHz," TI said.

http://linuxdevices.com/files/misc/arm_cortex_a9_mpcore_diag.gif

The first OMAP4 chips will be the OMAP4430 and OMAP4440, TI revealed. Available only to high-volume wireless device companies, the initial OMAP4 chips target devices that "redefine the boundaries of Smartphones and MIDs," stated Greg Delagi, head of TI's Wireless business.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/ti_omap44x_blk_diag.png

TI touted the following additional features for its initial OMAP44x SoCs:

* Built in 45nm process technology
* 12 mm x 12 mm x 0.4 mm POP (package-on-package)
* POWERVR SGX540 graphics engine
* 3D UI support
* Resolutions up to WSXGA (1680x1050)
* HDMI compatible
* 10+ hours of 1080p HD video playback
* 4+ hours of 1080p HD record
* 140+ hours of CD quality audio playback
* "Pre-integrated" with TI's various wireless radios, including WiLink Wi-Fi, NaviLink GPS, and BlueLink Bluetooth
* "Pre-validated" modem interface software for "any" external modem
* Support new TWL6030 and TWL6040 PMICs (power management ICs)
* Supports Pico projection technology
* Third-party tools and kits, such as Zoom OMAP mobile development platforms

But you are correct that 3rd iPhone if released in 2009 - at any time will NOT have it.

TI plans to sample the OMAP4430 and OMAP4440, along with development tools, in the second half of the year. Volume production is slated for the second half of 2010. The products will not be available through distributors, and are instead intended for "high-volume wireless OEMs and ODMs," TI said (although the company followed up its high-volume OMAP34xx parts with a low-volume OMAP35xx family that seems to have proven popular, so we might expect a similar pattern with OMAP4). Pricing was not disclosed.

[NokX]

will this new multi-core platform allow for picture messaging?

[chrmjenkins]

will this new multi-core platform allow for picture messaging?

It's possible now. Apple just has to decide people need the feature, just like copy/paste.

[NokX]

It's possible now. Apple just has to decide people need the feature, just like copy/paste.


i know. :) i was just being sarcastic.

everyone i know uses MMS and so it frustrates me when i get those stupid viewmymessage.com texts. ESPECIALLY when the site says it can't retrieve the image. so stupid...

[chrmjenkins]

i know. :) i was just being sarcastic.

everyone i know uses MMS and so it frustrates me when i get those stupid viewmymessage.com texts. ESPECIALLY when the site says it can't retrieve the image. so stupid...

Without the proper emoticons, I'm forced to assume ignorance based on the majority of questions that come out about apple hardware :p

[branjosef]

However long you spent on that pic was too long. :rolleyes:

I found it on the net.

[winterspan]

Got me lost on this.

Not sure what you want to know. Everything I said in that post is correct.

The recent ARM CPU core family goes like this: (DSPs, graphics chips, video decoding, etc are taken care of by the SoC manufacturer, and are independent of the ARM core)


ARM11 (ARMv6 instruction set)
- single or multi-core, in-order processing
- used in iPhone and most other cellphones

ARM Cortex-A8 (ARMv7 instruction set) (approx 1.5-2x faster than ARM11)
- single core only, in-order processing
- Palm Pre, New gen of Nokia internet tablets and eventually most future high-end smartphones

ARM Cortex-A9 (ARMv7 instruction set) (approx 3-4x faster than ARM11)
- single or multi-core, out-of-order processing
- production-ready system-on-a-chips available sometime in 2010

[ihabime]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't think Apple will be going for multiple ARM cores anytime soon, but more likely designing something like the new chip from freescale (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39616090,00.htm).

It has 5 cores, but only 1 multipurpose, the others run DSP, 2D graphics, 3D graphics and video decoding. Each core can be powered down independently allowing for very low power usage.

[chrmjenkins]

Not sure what you want to know. Everything I said in that post is correct.

The recent ARM CPU core family goes like this: (DSPs, graphics chips, video decoding, etc are taken care of by the SoC manufacturer, and are independent of the ARM core)


ARM11 (ARMv6 instruction set)
- single or multi-core, in-order processing
- used in iPhone and most other cellphones

ARM Cortex-A8 (ARMv7 instruction set) (approx 1.5-2x faster than ARM11)
- single core only, in-order processing
- Palm Pre, New gen of Nokia internet tablets and eventually most future high-end smartphones

ARM Cortex-A9 (ARMv7 instruction set) (approx 3-4x faster than ARM11)
- single or multi-core, out-of-order processing
- production-ready system-on-a-chips available sometime in 2010


I've also seen confusion about threading. All of these cores, even the cortex A9, are single-threaded cores.

[fr33 loader]

[QUOTE=JGowan;7116951]The beautiful thing about the iPhone is that, at $200, how can you NOT upgrade every two years? Also, why DISPOSE of your outdated iPhone,... it's still be better than the iPod touch -- use it as such or give it to a family member.

If it was your $200 I was spending, I would gladly spend that money for an upgrade.:D Heck, I'll do it everyday. Paying $600 (less rebate) for an Ipod Touch would be a bit much I think. My wife got an iPhone too and daughter is 12 y.o. I don't want her to have an expensive phone/toy without working for it. A family value that I want to instill on her. She does have a no frill, free regular phone. As I've said, this is the logical step to upgrade specs for iPhone and actually voted positive. I was just voicing out my concern regarding possible NEW softwares not running on a still perfectly running 2 year old phone.

Free?! You DO realize that AT&T pays Apple about $400 for every phone sold for a mere $200. You're getting a very expensive piece of kit for about $8 a month over the course of 2yrs,... hardly something to be looking a gift horse in the mouth, I say. I would imagine that, in a couple of years when AT&T's 5 year exclusive contract runs out and Apple can sell to everyone that you'll get your wish and the carriers will eat the whole amount. Until then, I think $8/mo. is worth the upgrading.

Of course, with a screenname like Free loader,…

LOL you did get me with my screen name. But I do have to disagree with you regarding AT&T as if I owe them anything. The horse is paid for and with profit. As soon as they start giving out subsidized/free phones and stop giving me my monthly bills, I assure and promise you that I would send them a thank-you note. :D

[ungraphic]

I hate to reign on the parade for all you apple fanboys, but in terms of mutli-core platforms the Cowon S9 is the first.

Aw....that means apple wont be able to say it pioneered or 'revolutionized' whatever it is they'll be planning on spinning around in their future ad campaigns.

[fr33 loader]

I hate to reign on the parade for all you apple fanboys, but in terms of mutli-core platforms the Cowon S9 is the first.

Aw....that means apple wont be able to say it pioneered or 'revolutionized' whatever it is they'll be planning on spinning around in their future ad campaigns.

Your majesty, there is one major design flaw. It looks like you can only use this device to call with one another if within shouting distance range. Unfortunately, this is too short for me.:(