PirateBay founders finally in court [Archive]

RedTomato

Feb 16, 2009, 09:29 AM

After many false starts and many failed legal threats, the founders of Pirate Bay are finally in court.

The trial is expected to take 3 weeks. Under Swedish law, the media companies will have a very hard time getting a guilty verdict. But the judge has accepted the case for a public trial, so it seems he thinks there is a genuine legal case to be answered.

BBC linky:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7892073.stm

According to the BBC:

"File-sharing services can be used both legally and illegally," defence lawyer Per Samuelsson said.

Frederik Neij, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg, Peter Sunde Kolmsioppi and Carl Lundstorm have portrayed themselves as digital libertarians and say that they cannot be prosecuted for copyright theft because none of the content is hosted on their computer servers.

The men are accused of "promoting other people's infringements of copyright laws," according to charges filed by senior public prosecutor Haakan Roswall.

"It is legal to offer a service that can be used in both a legal and illegal way, according to Swedish law," Mr Samuelsson said at the opening of the trial, which is expected to last three weeks.

Protesters outside the courtroom, protesting against the trial:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/R%C3%A4tteg%C3%A5ngen_mot_TPB_-_2009-02-16_%28gabbe%29.jpg/800px-R%C3%A4tteg%C3%A5ngen_mot_TPB_-_2009-02-16_%28gabbe%29.jpg

Please put updates in this thread.

EDIT: 17 Feb 2009: Update by edesignUK:

Pirate Bay joy at charge change
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7895026.stm

Half of the charges levelled at the founders of the Pirate Bay file-sharing site have been dropped.

Swedish prosecutors dropped charges relating to "assisting copyright infringement" leaving the lesser charges of "assisting making available copyright material" on trial day two.

Pirate Bay co-founder Frederik Neik said it showed prosecutors had misunderstood the technology.

The music industry played down the changes as "simplifying the charges".

EDIT:

Detailed coverage from TorrentFreak

Day One:

http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-trial-first-day-in-court/

Summary: History of PirateBay. Defendants browse PB site while waiting in court. Prosecution's "computer expert"s powerpoint presentation crashes repeatedly. Prosecutor confuses megabits and megabytes.

http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-flags-free-candy-and-court-tweets-090216/
Summary: Defendants twitter while in court. Supporters party outside. Live blogs and audio streams from in the court go out on the internet.

http://torrentfreak.com/images/tpband.jpg
http://torrentfreak.com/images/pirate-flags1.jpg

Day Two:

http://torrentfreak.com/50-of-charges-against-pirate-bay-dropped-090217/

Summary: Prosecution mis-understand the technology and mess up on their evidence. Many of the screenshots they use clearly state no connection between PB and the tracker. 50% of charges dropped. All charges relating to reproduction dropped.

Day Three:

http://torrentfreak.com/g-defense-090218/

Summary: PB defending lawyer deploys 'King Kong' defense. Asks prosecution to bring King Kong (anonymous PB user responsible for actual initiation of data transfer ) into court. Both sides eat pizza together after court.

Melrose

Feb 16, 2009, 10:17 AM

...Pirate Bay can go, just let me keep my IH torrents. :D

This is the same type of deal that shut down Napster, c'rrect? I mean, the actual distributor isn't actually keeping the a/v files stored they just connect the peeps who have them.

firehazardcs

Feb 16, 2009, 10:21 AM

jecapaga

Feb 16, 2009, 02:52 PM

I miss Oink. That was heaven on the internet.

Mr. lax

Feb 16, 2009, 06:14 PM

Well, i hope that The Pirate Bay lives on, i use it exclusively for my torrenting needs. If i lived in Sweden i would be right there protesting with them!

RTiii320

Feb 16, 2009, 08:38 PM

never used piratebay too much but i hope this does not negatively affect the other torrent sites

NeoMayhem

Feb 16, 2009, 10:45 PM

If TPB gets shut down, I wonder how many imitators will popup the next day....

alexbates

Feb 16, 2009, 10:47 PM

If TPB gets shut down, I wonder how many imitators will popup the next day....

Yeah, I wonder what will happen to other sites like ******* and Mininova.

iParis

Feb 16, 2009, 10:53 PM

So instead of getting the individuals that did the torrenting they just went to the source huh.

Yeah, I wonder what will happen to other sites like ******* and Mininova.

I wonder. I love Mininova and the Pirate Bay, I always check those sites for torrents.
Does ******* have their own torrents or do they just have links to other torrenting sites?

alexbates

Feb 16, 2009, 10:57 PM

So instead of getting the individuals that did the torrenting they just went to the source huh.

I wonder. I love Mininova and the Pirate Bay, I always check those sites for torrents.
Does ******* have their own torrents or do they just have links to other torrenting sites?

******* has their own torrents... and I have found that it is the best torrent site out there.

dinaluvsApple

Feb 16, 2009, 11:20 PM

torrents=dead

newsgroup and rapidshare taking over.

Les Kern

Feb 16, 2009, 11:25 PM

torrents=dead

newsgroup and rapidshare taking over.

Gee, I would have thought honesty would be gaining more ground. Sigh. Maybe one day.

iParis

Feb 16, 2009, 11:26 PM

torrents=dead

newsgroup and rapidshare taking over.

Hmm... I don't think so. I don't like rapid share, at all. It's a lot different than torrents. Rapidshare, one site. Torrents, many sites.

PlaceofDis

Feb 16, 2009, 11:28 PM

it'll be interesting to see how this all pans out. wonder what, if any, precedent the outcome of this case might set.

richard.mac

Feb 16, 2009, 11:29 PM

torrents=dead

newsgroup and rapidshare taking over.

bittorrent is not dead. its a great way of distributing data (whether it be legal or illegal) without bogging down a server.

usenet is a good way to distribute data but there is a lot more content and activity on torrent trackers. pfft rapidshare? noob!

Mr. lax

Feb 16, 2009, 11:31 PM

Gee, I would have thought honesty would be gaining more ground. Sigh. Maybe one day.

I don't think ever. Its too cheap and easy to be dishonest

Melrose

Feb 17, 2009, 11:02 AM

******* has their own torrents... and I have found that it is the best torrent site out there.

+1. If I need a torrent for something, I go here. I don't bother anywhere else.. too many dead or leeched torrents elsewhere.

edesignuk

Feb 17, 2009, 11:09 AM

The case is already quickly going down the pan :D :cool:

Half of the charges levelled at the founders of the Pirate Bay file-sharing site have been dropped.

Swedish prosecutors dropped charges relating to "assisting copyright infringement" leaving the lesser charges of "assisting making available copyright material" on trial day two.

Pirate Bay co-founder Frederik Neik said it showed prosecutors had misunderstood the technology.

The music industry played down the changes as "simplifying the charges". BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7895026.stm).

PlaceofDis

Feb 17, 2009, 11:16 AM

The case is already quickly going down the pan :D :cool:
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7895026.stm).

ha. well this bodes well for them at least. and this is a great part of why the music industry just doesn't 'get it' so to speak. they're so backwards and misunderstanding technology rather than pushing it ahead and embracing it.

Les Kern

Feb 17, 2009, 01:11 PM

ha. well this bodes well for them at least. and this is a great part of why the music industry just doesn't 'get it' so to speak. they're so backwards and misunderstanding technology rather than pushing it ahead and embracing it.

What is to "get" about pirated songs? The fact is that simple low-life thieves are responsible for this and the pirating of software, not the R.I.A.A. and their seemingly complete lack of visionaries. I still can't see how anyone can justify in their own mind this kind of theft. Are they the sad spawn of the "gimme/mine" generation of the 80's? (I want it, I deserve it) Perhaps. Are they mentally defective, lacking any kind of morality? Certainly.

PlaceofDis

Feb 17, 2009, 01:15 PM

Abstract

Feb 17, 2009, 01:20 PM

what i was talking about was the technology that is in place, not the advocating of piracy. bit torrent is a great technology that could be used to distribute plenty of legal material if the RIAA and MPAA decided to wield it, but they seemingly don't even understand the technology behind it from this court case.

I do agree with you in most ways, but..........this place is called The Pirate Bay. The intentions are pretty clear. ;) I doubt the owner just really really loves pirates (of the nautical variety).

PlaceofDis

Feb 17, 2009, 01:23 PM

I do agree with you in most ways, but..........this place is called The Pirate Bay. The intentions are pretty clear. ;) I doubt the owner just really really loves pirates (of the nautical variety).

never said that i agree with what the pirate bay does, did i? i just said that the case is looking to be in their favor.

Taum

Feb 17, 2009, 03:34 PM

Are they mentally defective, lacking any kind of morality?
So now sharing a bunch of songs is lacking any kind of morality. Dude, give me a break.

Soon piracy will be held responsible for the economic crysis :rolleyes:

Schtumple

Feb 17, 2009, 03:41 PM

I found this on The Pirate Bay "About" page. I found it somewhat amusing.

"Only torrent files are saved at the server. That means no copyrighted and/or illegal material are stored by us. It is therefore not possible to hold the people behind The Pirate Bay responsible for the material that is being spread using the tracker. Any complaints from copyright and/or lobby organizations will be ridiculed and published at the site."

Sadly, I very much doubt anybody else will understand that, and they will get a guilty vote, just because they technically aren't breaking any copyright laws, doesn't mean anyone in the court will understand that (from a technology point of view).

I've always been a fan of PirateBay, they stand as a beacon to everything that is wrong with the music industry (another thread, another time).

superwoman

Feb 17, 2009, 04:41 PM

Sadly, I very much doubt anybody else will understand that, and they will get a guilty vote, just because they technically aren't breaking any copyright laws...
(another thread, another time).

I'm wondering if there's a typo in your statement, but I think I understand what you're saying.

In any case, isn't the burden of proof *always* on the prosecution to show without a doubt that a law has been broken? So if there's any confusion or lack of understanding, it should be to the defense's benefit, right?

RedTomato

Feb 17, 2009, 05:14 PM

Thanks edesignUK. I've updated the OP.

dernhelm

Feb 17, 2009, 05:15 PM

torrents=dead

newsgroup and rapidshare taking over.

Never thought I'd see the day when someone considered the usenet as "advancing technology".

Malfoy

Feb 17, 2009, 06:00 PM

Never thought I'd see the day when someone considered the usenet as "advancing technology".

lol i was thinking the same thing.

william sire

Feb 17, 2009, 11:19 PM

iParis

Feb 17, 2009, 11:40 PM

Mr. lax

Feb 18, 2009, 01:01 AM

I was downloading from Piratebay until I heard they were in trouble. Then I didn't turn on my home computers for about four months. If they get convicted I just move while everyone else gets arrested. That is assuming anything like that would be the result of a guilty verdict.

That doesn't make sense to me, I believe that even if prosecuted ThePirateBay has zero legal obligation to release any of their server information. Even if they did, the only people that would have problems with it are those that upload torrents to the site. Think about how long axxo has been around, and all the torrent sites that have shut down since then. People that use torrents have nothing to fear.

weckart

Feb 18, 2009, 04:46 AM

The case is already quickly going down the pan :D :cool:
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7895026.stm).
It is not going down the pan quickly. This is how cases progress in countries (i.e. most of 'em) that do not have common law. Both prosecution and defence whittle down the arguments until there is a final set which separates both sides. It is the final arguments that make up the case to be answered rather than the initial charges. Having said that, the prosecution could be doing a more competent job given the arguments it has put forward so far.

In any case, isn't the burden of proof *always* on the prosecution to show without a doubt that a law has been broken? So if there's any confusion or lack of understanding, it should be to the defense's benefit, right?

I believe this is how it works in the US, which has an adversarial court system.

Schtumple

Feb 18, 2009, 06:11 AM

I'm wondering if there's a typo in your statement, but I think I understand what you're saying.

In any case, isn't the burden of proof *always* on the prosecution to show without a doubt that a law has been broken? So if there's any confusion or lack of understanding, it should be to the defense's benefit, right?

Sorry yes, forgot to add a bit on the end :p thanks for the eagle eye.

And no, I mean that because there is a lack of understanding, people will think that Pirate Bay host these files on their website, which would mean they are infact breaking copyright laws, but they aren't, they're mearly providing links to the content. But I doubt anyone will understand that. Although this is the PirateBay, they can wriggle their way out of anything :p

gnasher729

Feb 18, 2009, 12:21 PM

I do agree with you in most ways, but..........this place is called The Pirate Bay. The intentions are pretty clear. ;) I doubt the owner just really really loves pirates (of the nautical variety).

Would you ever buy things from a company that has a pirate's flag over one of their buildings? Or had one in the past?

phillipjfry

Feb 18, 2009, 05:29 PM

Would you ever buy things from a company that has a pirate's flag over one of their buildings? Or had one in the past?

if you're sellin' and I'm wantin', I'm buyin'. :)

In terms of the trial, I do hope that the lesser of two evils wins for once...

And to comment on the picture OP posted....who's watchin' the stroller??!! :eek:

RedTomato

Feb 18, 2009, 05:33 PM

It is not going down the pan quickly. This is how cases progress in countries (i.e. most of 'em) that do not have common law. Both prosecution and defence whittle down the arguments until there is a final set which separates both sides. It is the final arguments that make up the case to be answered rather than the initial charges. Having said that, the prosecution could be doing a more competent job given the arguments it has put forward so far.

You are perfectly right that different countries have different legal principles. Thank you for pointing out some very important differences between Sweden and the USA.

BUT the the Swedish defending lawyer, who presumably is very familar with Swedish procedures and Swedish legal history has said:

"This is a sensation. It is very rare to win half the target in just one and a half days and it is clear that the prosecutor took strong note of what we said yesterday," defence lawyer Per E Samuelson told the TorrentFreak website, which reports on developments in the BitTorrent file-sharing community.

Linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7895026.stm) at the BBC.

So edesignUK is right, the case seems to be going bottom-up.

rdowns

Feb 18, 2009, 05:37 PM

Would you ever buy things from a company that has a pirate's flag over one of their buildings? Or had one in the past?

Um, yeah.

In fact, we were growing so fast that we needed to move again. In August of 1983, we moved across the street to a larger building that was unimaginatively designated "Bandley 3". I had worked there before, in 1980, when Apple had initially built it to house the original engineering organization. But now it was to be the new home of the newly christened "Macintosh Division", over 80 employees strong.

The building looked pretty much like every other Apple building, so we wanted to do something to make it look like we belonged there. Steve Capps, the heroic programmer who had switched over from the Lisa team just in time for the January retreat, had a flash of inspiration: if the Mac team was a band of pirates, the building should fly a pirate flag.

A few days before we moved into the new building, Capps bought some black cloth and sewed it into a flag. He asked Susan Kare to paint a big skull and crossbones in white at the center. The final touch was the requisite eye-patch, rendered by a large, rainbow-colored Apple logo decal. We wanted to have the flag flying over the building early Monday morning, the first day of occupancy, so the plan was to install it late Sunday evening.

Capps had already made a few exploratory forays onto the roof during the weekend while a few of us looked out for guards on the ground. At first, he thought he could just drape the flag on the roof, but that proved impractical as it was too hard to see, especially when the wind curled it up. After a bit of searching, he found a thin metal pole among the remaining construction materials still scattered inside the building, that was suitable to serve as a flag pole.

Finally, on Sunday night around 10pm, it was time to hoist the Jolly Roger. Capps climbed onto the roof while we stood guard below. He wasn't sure how he would attach the flag, and didn't have many tools with him. He scoured the surface of the roof and found three or four long, rusty nails, which he was able to use to secure the flag pole to a groove in the roof, ready to greet the Mac team members as they entered the new building the next morning.

We weren't sure how everyone would react to the flag, especially Steve Jobs, but Steve and almost everyone else loved it, so it became a permanent fixture of the building. It usually made me smile when I caught a glimpse of it as I came to work in the morning.

The flag waved proudly over Bandley 3 for about a month or two, but one morning in late September or early October, I noticed that it was gone. It turns out that the Lisa team, with whom we had a mostly friendly rivalry, decided it would be fun to steal the flag for themselves. I think they sent us a ransom note or something, so a few of us stormed over to the Lisa building to retrieve it, which we accomplished, although Capps had to wrestle it from the grasp of one of the secretaries, who was hiding it in her desk.

The flag continued to fly over Bandley 3 for more than a year. I think it was even photographed for a magazine or two during the Mac introduction. But suddenly one day it was missing again, and I'm not sure if anyone knows what happened to it. It would be a great artifact for the Computer History Museum if it ever turns up.

Link (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Pirate_Flag.txt)

RedTomato

Feb 18, 2009, 05:50 PM

Detailed coverage from TorrentFreak

Day One:
http://torrentfreak.com/the-pirate-bay-trial-first-day-in-court/
Summary: History of PirateBay. Defendants browse PB site while waiting in court. Prosecution's "computer expert"s powerpoint presentation crashes repeatedly. Prosecutor confuses megabits and megabytes.

http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-flags-free-candy-and-court-tweets-090216/
Summary: Defendants twitter while in court. Supporters party outside. Live blogs and audio streams from in the court go out on the internet.

http://torrentfreak.com/images/tpband.jpg
http://torrentfreak.com/images/pirate-flags1.jpg

Day Two:
http://torrentfreak.com/50-of-charges-against-pirate-bay-dropped-090217/
Summary: Prosecution mis-understand the technology and mess up on their evidence. Many of the screenshots they use clearly state no connection between PB and the tracker. 50% of charges dropped. All charges relating to reproduction dropped.

Day Three:
http://torrentfreak.com/g-defense-090218/
Summary: PB defending lawyer deploys 'King Kong' defense. Asks prosecution to bring King Kong (anonymous PB user responsible for actual initiation of data transfer ) into court. Both sides eat pizza together after court.

reimerd10

Feb 19, 2009, 12:56 PM

LERsince1991

Feb 19, 2009, 02:36 PM

Ha, saw this advertised before the news so waited or ages to see the story.

TPB will never go down, on of the biggest torrent sites... even if it does then it wont make any difference except showing people that it is possible to bring the sites down which they hardly ever do.

They asked the 4 owners of TPB and one of them said something along the lines of 'We will win' and just shrugged his shoulders :P

Use ******* anyway, thats also the best :P

LERsince1991

Feb 19, 2009, 02:39 PM

theres no point in trying to stop technology. Work with it, as a previous poster said you can get better files on the net whether a price is an issue for some people or not. You want quality you have to turn to torrents.

They need to serisously change the laws and come up with a master plan to stop piracy... But they wont

EmperorDarius

Feb 19, 2009, 02:51 PM

Booooo!
I hope that The Pirate Bay gets back up-'n-running like always.

Winni

Feb 19, 2009, 03:15 PM

What is to "get" about pirated songs? The fact is that simple low-life thieves are responsible for this and the pirating of software, not the R.I.A.A. and their seemingly complete lack of visionaries. I still can't see how anyone can justify in their own mind this kind of theft. Are they the sad spawn of the "gimme/mine" generation of the 80's? (I want it, I deserve it) Perhaps. Are they mentally defective, lacking any kind of morality? Certainly.

Just for the sake of argument: What are you stealing when you download "pirated" software or content? You are not taking anything away (which is what the term "stealing" implies), you are merely COPYING it, which means that the term "stealing" simply does not apply. Furthermore, there is no evidence whatsoever that the copyright owner -- which almost always is NOT the artist -- is losing a sale because of this copying.

Then there is also something else to think about when we talk about "pirating" music or music: Sooner or later, the stuff is broadcasted on radio and TV, and to my knowledge there is no country on this planet where it is illegal to record from radio or TV. Now if this is legal, where's the difference to downloading it from the Internet except for a) the timeframe and b) the technical procedure involved? The content is the same.

Then, as Michael Moore once said, it has always been okay if my friends or neighbors have borrowed me a tape and if I copied it. Now why, all of a sudden, is copying the same stuff from the Internet illegal?

But once again, lucky us non-US citizens: In Germany, the private copy is by all means legal. They've added some restrictions to how it is legal to obtain that copy, but in general, when I had an -- original(!) -- in my hands and made a copy of it myself, that copy is legal. So I can go to a video store, rent a movie and make a LEGAL copy of it.

In summary, there is no logic behind the copyright laws anymore. And when you look at history, strangely enough, the copyright laws always only protected the book printer - never the author. That is where the copyright laws come from, actually, and in my opinion, this is where they have always been wrong by design. They should have protected the artist, not the distributor.

yojitani

Feb 19, 2009, 03:51 PM

Unspeaked

Feb 19, 2009, 04:33 PM

In summary, there is no logic behind the copyright laws anymore. And when you look at history, strangely enough, the copyright laws always only protected the book printer - never the author. That is where the copyright laws come from, actually, and in my opinion, this is where they have always been wrong by design. They should have protected the artist, not the distributor.

It should be mandatory that MacRumors insert this paragraph into any and all of the many "piracy" threads that pop up here each week.

The fact of the matter is copyright laws are ancient. They were created for books and no one involved with their creation could have ever foreseen things like the internet. Thomas Jefferson opposed copyright and patent laws with a passion. He must be rolling in his grave looking at how far his small concessions have gone.

I'm not saying I support stealing of anything - physical or digital - but the current copyright system is a joke. How can anyone look and Disney and their ever-expanding statute of limitations on their characters and not see it for the corporate farce it is?

MattZani

Feb 19, 2009, 04:55 PM

How is this good news?

Schtumple

Feb 19, 2009, 06:17 PM

How is this good news?

Because PirateBay have been threatened multiple times, the fact that they're in court is only going to prove to the industry that they can't be taken down, most of the charges were based on wrong accusations due to a mis-understanding of technology...

PirateBay will go on, if the owners get thrown in jail, someone WILL keep the site running...

It's like Demonoid, it's user base is too big, there's too much support on their side for them to be taken down...

gnasher729

Feb 19, 2009, 06:56 PM

Summary: PB defending lawyer deploys 'King Kong' defense. Asks prosecution to bring King Kong (anonymous PB user responsible for actual initiation of data transfer ) into court. Both sides eat pizza together after court.

And I thought it referred to Universal and their two "King Kong" cases: First they argued that their remake of the original "King Kong" movie was no copyright infringment because "King Kong" was in the public domain, then they sued Nintendo claiming that "Donkey Kong" was infringing on Universal's copyright.

kwood

Feb 20, 2009, 05:52 PM

Ignoring from my views on torrenting, I just think it is hilarious that people are outside of the courthouse having a party.

Mr. lax

Feb 20, 2009, 07:36 PM

The biggest problem in my eyes between illegal copyrighted material downloads and legal downloads is that the illegal versions are often better. Even now with iTunes plus (or whatever they call it) the files are only 256 aac. This is 1/4 the quality of a cd for essentially the same price but you can likely find the same material illegally on a torrent site in a lossless format. Add to this the absurd DRM that used to be included in music and is included on movies and the quality is clearly significantly lower. Until legal versions of copyrighted material are of equal quality to illegal versions there is no hope of convincing the masses to behave legally.

I don't think that will fix the problem. I think that to sell the items, the items for sale have to have higher quality than the pirated items. Otherwise, what is the incentive to spend money on things.

I know i'm going to get flamed for that opinion, but i believe that is how it is

Mr. lax

Feb 23, 2009, 01:44 AM

Is there any new information on this case? I'd like to keep up to date

it5five

Feb 23, 2009, 02:08 AM

I don't think they reconvene until Tuesday, but check out http://torrentfreak.com/ for updates on the case.

PowerFullMac

Feb 23, 2009, 04:01 PM

I hope The Pirate Bay wins this! Good luck to them!

I'm not saying I support piracy (because then I'll get arrested or I'll have my internet cut off, much like I would if I talked bad about the government as a Chinese citizen) but I seriously hate the bloody copyright companies who don't care about human rights and just want everyone's money. They don't even care about artists.

I mean, seriously, Ireland are censoring the internet because of these ****s!!!

The American film industry made over $9 billion last year and still the MPAA puts out propaganda crap, much like the Church of Scientology, saying that piracy funds terrorism blah blah blah... It's disgraceful.

I, for one, would see a win for The Pirate Bay as a sign that there is a still at least a small care for free speech.

159281
(click the image to enlarge it)

Acorn

Feb 23, 2009, 08:45 PM

honestly i dont really understand why they would be guilty. they do not host any files they simply track them. it works like a search engine. if your gonna shut down the pirate bay then i want google shut down for showing results on drugs crime and pornography. people say google is not responsible for its content well neither is pirate bay. they do not regulate content just as google doesnt.

my problem is its not ok for the pirate bay to show the location of where to download a music file but its perfectly fine for google to show the location of instructions of how to make meth.

makes perfect sense to me.

Schtumple

Feb 23, 2009, 08:55 PM

honestly i dont really understand why they would be guilty. they do not host any files they simply track them. if your gonna shut down the pirate bay then i want google shut down for showing results on in appropriete material.

ok so its not ok for the pirate bay to show people where to download a music file but its perfectly fine for google to show hits of instructions of how to make meth.

makes perfect sense to me.

To be honest, I don't even think they technically track them, the users do, using the site, I don't think there's any intervention by the owners of what is put up and what isn't.

If anyones interested, I created this wallpaper as a ode to PirateBay, it was a anti-piracy slogan that was run in the 80's, during the tape cassette boom, record companies were worried everyone would tape songs off the radio and not actually buy anymore singles, creating this campaign to fight it, I made this to show how much BS the record companies come out with...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/158723/Hosting%20Folder/MacRumors/Home%20Taping%20Is%20Killing%20Music%202.jpg

PowerFullMac

Feb 24, 2009, 11:04 AM

To be honest, I don't even think they technically track them, the users do, using the site, I don't think there's any intervention by the owners of what is put up and what isn't.

If anyones interested, I created this wallpaper as a ode to PirateBay, it was a anti-piracy slogan that was run in the 80's, during the tape cassette boom, record companies were worried everyone would tape songs off the radio and not actually buy anymore singles, creating this campaign to fight it, I made this to show how much BS the record companies come out with...

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/158723/Hosting%20Folder/MacRumors/Home%20Taping%20Is%20Killing%20Music%202.jpg

Indeed, Pyratbryan actually use that as there logo now and if you look at one of the sails on the Pirate Bay ship you will see that logo, too.

The comic strip I posted also makes the same point you did (said comic strip is from The Pirate Bay, it's replacing their logo at the moment on the main page).

rasmasyean

Feb 24, 2009, 11:14 AM

This whole thing looks like such a joke.

Remember what happened with Napster...whom I guess you can consider as the "founder of peer-to-peer"...

After his "demise" the technology became so popular and more widespread from the fiasco that it got so many more hackers involved to the point that they are like untouchable and all over the place.

This just succeeds to create a whole industry where lawyers and "other hackers" make money off the music industry because they are too dumb and stubborn to figure out a way to change their business models and catch up with the times.

The best move was Steve Jobs response of..."Oh, ppl like to download music? Well let's sell it to them for 99 cents! And lets sell them a $300 plain looking all white box to play it exclusively on and make them all think it matches everything they wear!".

Schtumple

Feb 24, 2009, 12:36 PM

Indeed, Pyratbryan actually use that as there logo now and if you look at one of the sails on the Pirate Bay ship you will see that logo, too.

The comic strip I posted also makes the same point you did (said comic strip is from The Pirate Bay, it's replacing their logo at the moment on the main page).

Yeah, forgot to say, that's also why I made it, as it's a part of PBs main logo, can't get more relevant than that!

Acorn

Mar 3, 2009, 05:51 PM

now they are saying they should be responsible and to not take google into consideration because just because someone else can do it that doesnt make it alright. thats bullcrap. they want to regulate what people are searching for on the internet. IMHO a violation of freedom.

Mr. lax

Mar 4, 2009, 11:26 AM

Now that the trial has finished, I think that TPB will be acquitted of all charges, i don't believe that will be the end of this case, oh well. Now its time for the waiting game until the jury gets back.

leekohler

Mar 4, 2009, 11:48 AM

Didn't people learn from the Napster debacle? :mad:

Schtumple

Mar 4, 2009, 02:22 PM

Didn't people learn from the Napster debacle? :mad:

In what sense?

leekohler

Mar 4, 2009, 02:34 PM

In what sense?

Look what that did to the record industry after Napster was sued. They had a perfect opportunity to work with Napster. Instead, they decided to fight the future. Good riddance, I say.

NoSmokingBandit

Mar 4, 2009, 02:41 PM

This is hilarious. I want to go to Sweden just to buy these guys a beer.

Schtumple

Mar 4, 2009, 02:53 PM

Look what that did to the record industry after Napster was sued. They had a perfect opportunity to work with Napster. Instead, they decided to fight the future. Good riddance, I say.

Oh yeah I get you. Sorry wasn't sure what angle you meant it from.

Yeah nothing good will come from taking Pirate Bay down (although I doubt they'll be able to), if anything it'll create a huge backlash, like an international download music illegally day... The internet is a dangerous place, and I don't think big corporations have realised that they can't **** with it, it's too big...

leekohler

Mar 4, 2009, 02:55 PM

Oh yeah I get you. Sorry wasn't sure what angle you meant it from.

Yeah nothing good will come from taking Pirate Bay down (although I doubt they'll be able to), if anything it'll create a huge backlash, like an international download music illegally day... The internet is a dangerous place, and I don't think big corporations have realised that they can't ***** with it, it's too big...

They should have learned after Napster, but they seem to be unable to move forward. That will be to their detriment, not the consumers'. We'll end up with better deals in the long run.

Veldek

Mar 5, 2009, 06:19 AM

But once again, lucky us non-US citizens: In Germany, the private copy is by all means legal. They've added some restrictions to how it is legal to obtain that copy, but in general, when I had an -- original(!) -- in my hands and made a copy of it myself, that copy is legal. So I can go to a video store, rent a movie and make a LEGAL copy of it. I'm afraid this is not true. You can make a private copy of something you bought, to be prepared if the original breaks. But it isn't allowed to make a private copy of something you do not own.

Schtumple

Mar 5, 2009, 08:12 AM

They should have learned after Napster, but they seem to be unable to move forward. That will be to their detriment, not the consumers'. We'll end up with better deals in the long run.

It's because the music industry has always had a grip on what technology they're going to introduce to force us to repurchase our music, LP, tape CD etc.

Now, this tech is out of their control, so of course they're naturally going to try and fight it at every opportunity. If they'd embraced it when they took napster to court, Apple wouldn't #1 for online music sales, it would've had HUGE implications for the industry, alot of jobs would've been saved...

PowerFullMac

Mar 5, 2009, 11:19 AM

nateDEEZY

Mar 6, 2009, 10:20 AM

Even if they're found guilty it won't change a thing for TPB, imo.

Cromulent

Mar 17, 2009, 01:50 PM

usenet is a good way to distribute data but there is a lot more content and activity on torrent trackers.

I wouldn't be so sure. I can max out my connection using Usenet, I have never ever got anywhere close to maxing out my connection using torrents.

és:

Mar 17, 2009, 02:13 PM

I wouldn't be so sure. I can max out my connection using Usenet, I have never ever got anywhere close to maxing out my connection using torrents.

What is your connection speed?

Cromulent

Mar 17, 2009, 02:50 PM

What is your connection speed?

8Mbits/sec

és:

Mar 17, 2009, 02:57 PM

8Mbits/sec

Then, my dear crommie, you're using the wrong torrent sites or you've got port issues.

I've got 10mb and max that out all day long. You'd have to have a seriously fast connection to be able to download faster than the total rate of a well seeded torrent.

Cromulent

Mar 18, 2009, 09:38 AM

Then, my dear crommie, you're using the wrong torrent sites or you've got port issues.

I've got 10mb and max that out all day long. You'd have to have a seriously fast connection to be able to download faster than the total rate of a well seeded torrent.

Hmm, perhaps I should do some more research then but I have never seen anything like that.

és:

Mar 18, 2009, 09:47 AM

nateDEEZY

Mar 18, 2009, 10:31 AM

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2766/picture047w.jpg

That 191m file was finished in just over 3 1/2 minutes. 1.1mb is just about tapping the red line of my connection. If you need a place to down load legal only torrents, give me a PM.

That's about on average for the little green demon, so long as you keep your ratios >1:1 Fastest sustained I've seen was about 1.5~1.6 only through steam though :(

és:

Mar 18, 2009, 10:35 AM

That's about on average for the little green demon, so long as you keep your ratios >1:1 Fastest sustained I've seen was about 1.5~1.6 only through steam though :(

I'm on 10mb. So I think the theoretical max I can get is.. 10 megabytes divided by 8 = megabits = 1.25mbps. I probably get sslightly less than the full 10 here, so 1.1 is solid.

kastenbrust

Mar 19, 2009, 06:26 AM

I'm on 10mb. So I think the theoretical max I can get is.. 10 megabytes divided by 8 = megabits = 1.25mbps. I probably get sslightly less than the full 10 here, so 1.1 is solid.

Wait until you get 50MB :D

és:

Mar 19, 2009, 06:28 AM

Wait until you get 50MB :D

Does it rock? I'd love 50mb. What speeds are you getting? 5.5mbps?

Tesselator

Mar 19, 2009, 06:40 AM

My connection is 100 megabits and I get 10 begaBYTES per second both uploading and downloading at the same time fairly often.

Usually only on larger files though. For smaller files it's done too fast and doesn't usually have a chance to get up over 4 or 5 megabytes per second before the files is done.

That's all well and good but recently I've had to limit it. Safari doesn't want to open pages with that kind of BG traffic happening. :p

drlunanerd

Mar 19, 2009, 06:47 AM

Does it rock? I'd love 50mb. What speeds are you getting? 5.5mbps?

It doesn't rock, due to Virgin's awful network, contention, throttling and traffic shaping, not to mention pathetic upstream bandwidth :rolleyes:

és:

Mar 19, 2009, 06:49 AM

It doesn't rock, due to Virgin's awful network, contention, throttling and traffic shaping, not to mention pathetic upstream bandwidth :rolleyes:

Do you use it?

Cromulent

Mar 19, 2009, 06:52 AM

Does it rock? I'd love 50mb. What speeds are you getting? 5.5mbps?

I'm waiting for BT to release their consumer fiber optic package which is due in 2010 or 2011. I guess I can cope till then even though my internet usage is probably considered excessive by most.

és:

Mar 19, 2009, 06:55 AM

I'm waiting for BT to release their consumer fiber optic package which is due in 2010 or 2011. I guess I can cope till then even though my internet usage is probably considered excessive by most.

Ever considered this (https://www.bethere.co.uk/)? I know a load of people that swear by it.

Cromulent

Mar 19, 2009, 06:57 AM

Ever considered this (https://www.bethere.co.uk/)? I know a load of people that swear by it.

I've considered it regularly, but it means losing my e-mail address which is essential. I have had it for about 10 years now and too many people know it for me to change it really. Plus I'm pretty happy with BT I've been with them for ADSL since day one. They have never let me down.

iParis

Mar 19, 2009, 08:59 AM

és:

Mar 19, 2009, 09:01 AM

Are you guys kidding me?! I have never got above something like 500 Kb/s.
And whenever I torrent I use one with an amazing or top amount of seeds.
I'm pretty sure it's not a port issue because this is the case on my current computer and my previous one.

What is your connection speed. speedtest.net should help show what your speed is like if you're going over the phone line. 500kb isn't bad and probably isn't a port issue.

Tesselator

Mar 19, 2009, 11:41 AM

Are you guys kidding me?! I have never got above something like 500 Kb/s.
And whenever I torrent I use one with an amazing or top amount of seeds.
I'm pretty sure it's not a port issue because this is the case on my current computer and my previous one.

ISPs commonly cap three things:

1. Speed Per Connection,
2. Total Speed over all connections, and
3. Number of connections.

2 and 3 will affect torrents. 3 can also be capped or limited by your OS though I dunno what if any OS X has.

anjinha

Mar 20, 2009, 07:39 PM

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2766/picture047w.jpg

That 191m file was finished in just over 3 1/2 minutes. 1.1mb is just about tapping the red line of my connection. If you need a place to down load legal only torrents, give me a PM.

My connection is 16MB and I never get those kinds of speed. :mad:

kastenbrust

Mar 20, 2009, 08:09 PM

It doesn't rock, due to Virgin's awful network, contention, throttling and traffic shaping, not to mention pathetic upstream bandwidth :rolleyes:

Virgin doesn't throttle my speeds, your talking complete bs, (i download about 400GB per month)
I get about 12mbps download speed on an optical 50Mb connection. Thats consistent.

BT is the only ISP i've experienced that throttles my speeds.

Have you heard of RC4 and RC5 encryption?

Schtumple

Mar 20, 2009, 08:21 PM

Virgin doesn't throttle my speeds, your talking complete bs, (i download about 400GB per month)
I get about 12mbps download speed on an optical 50Mb connection. Thats consistent.

BT is the only ISP i've experienced that throttles my speeds.

Have you heard of RC4 and RC5 encryption?

He's not talking BS, don't make outlandish statements...

We are with Virgin and they limit us constantly, we got limited down to dial up speeds for 2 weeks at one point because we were using "excessive upstream bandwidth", which turned out to be dropbox, which was strange because I'd only uploaded about 70mb of stuff, not exactly a large amount these days.

I hate how ISPs promote using the internet to download music/films/BBC iPlayer, but if you actually do any of these, you end up being penalised.

és:

Mar 20, 2009, 09:16 PM

I download/upload many, many GB a week. I never get throttled in any way.

PowerFullMac

Mar 21, 2009, 07:07 AM

I've considered it regularly, but it means losing my e-mail address which is essential. I have had it for about 10 years now and too many people know it for me to change it really. Plus I'm pretty happy with BT I've been with them for ADSL since day one. They have never let me down.

For a few weeks before loosing it you could set up a auto reply with your new e-mail address in it (set one up in Google Mail to use for the future, you won't regret it) and set up a divert to said new e-mail address.

To people using Virgin, I wouldn't use BitTorrent if I was you, they will cut your net off if you get caught since Virgin also has a record company and such. IP blocking would probably help if you do use it, though, if you haven't set it up already.

smilinmonki666

Mar 24, 2009, 03:34 PM

So now sharing a bunch of songs is lacking any kind of morality. Dude, give me a break.

Soon piracy will be held responsible for the economic crysis :rolleyes:

In a round about way... don't you think it might have a slight link...

edesignuk

Apr 17, 2009, 02:50 AM

So, today's the day.
Countdown to Pirate Bay verdict

On Friday at about 1100 local time (1000 BST) computer expert Peter Sunde will receive a phone call, e-mail or fax at his home in Malmo, Sweden, which will mark one of the most decisive moments in the 10-year battle between file-sharers and the professional creative industries.BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8002171.stm).

Good luck chaps. Hopefully you won't need it.

Holy crap they've been convicted! :(

(Says BBC News 24 on TV right now)

iBlue

Apr 17, 2009, 05:18 AM

Wow, I never thought they'd get a conviction. Good luck with the appeal.

arkitect

Apr 17, 2009, 05:24 AM

Apparently they already knew last night! :(

Mr Sunde went on to say that he "got the news last night that we lost".

"It used to be only movies, now even verdicts are out before the official release."

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8003799.stm)

Crap start to the day.

richard.mac

Apr 17, 2009, 05:24 AM

Good luck to him. although i dont use TPB they do have external torrents on other trackers. if TPB goes expect a lot of content to disappear.

PowerFullMac

Apr 17, 2009, 05:36 AM

They'll appeal it.

Shaun.P

Apr 17, 2009, 07:36 AM

Angelo95210

Apr 17, 2009, 07:38 AM

Wow.... sounds terrible but one the other hand they were playing a risky and unethical business !

steveza

Apr 17, 2009, 07:51 AM

They'll appeal it.I think that the appeal will go against them too. Maybe the European Court could overturn it but I don't know.

ZunePod

Apr 17, 2009, 07:59 AM

Thing is though. They should sue Mediafire, Rapidshare etc etc.

They host stuff that breaks even more copyright (iPhone bootloaders for example) laws and I know that TPB dont take anything down, but you can't sentence someone for providing a tutorial in a kind of way.

BBC B 32k

Apr 17, 2009, 08:12 AM

Hmmm, tricky ground here. Seems we are convicting people for crimes they did not commit. Next logical step is to prosecute the ISPs?

Should spend more effort on stopping the actual crime - the serial up-loaders. Personally think it is OK to download some media and if you like / use it go on to pay for a legitimate copy. Like a free trial.

Just my 2p worth.

NoSmokingBandit

Apr 17, 2009, 08:12 AM

Good luck to him. although i dont use TPB they do have external torrents on other trackers. if TPB goes expect a lot of content to disappear.

It will leave a decent dent in the torrent scene, but when demonoid went down for a while it really didnt make a huge difference. Granted, i just switched to tpb to get everything while demonoid was gone so ill probably just have to go back to demonoid after this.

Hopefully tpb can find some way out of this.

miles01110

Apr 17, 2009, 08:50 AM

Should spend more effort on stopping the actual crime - the serial up-loaders. Personally think it is OK to download some media and if you like / use it go on to pay for a legitimate copy. Like a free trial.

The "if" is the problem- absolutely no way to check on that with consistency.

WinterMute

Apr 17, 2009, 09:06 AM

Wow, 1 year in the clink, I didn't expect custodial sentences, big fines for sure, but not jail.

I have no love for copyright thieves, but TPB and the torrent system were the vehicle, if anything they were accessories.

The music and video industry is suffering because there are no large targets, people like TPB are simply visible and have taken a kicking because of it.

iMouse

Apr 17, 2009, 09:20 AM

A sad day for the TPB.

...but on a good note, scratch one OSX/Iservices Trojan Horse!

No TPB, fewer nubs to download Trojan-injected copies of Photoshop CS4 and iWork '09. :D

Sorkvild

Apr 17, 2009, 09:28 AM

^^ The music and video industry is definitely NOT suffering... Every year they have record profits.

I might be missing something here, but won't this verdict give a huge boost to file-sharing? Do the record companies actually believe this will put an end to torrents?

Why aren't they going after Google? You can find torrents just as easily.

notjustjay

Apr 17, 2009, 09:47 AM

Personally think it is OK to download some media and if you like / use it go on to pay for a legitimate copy. Like a free trial.

Ethically maybe. Legally no. And that's a bit too "ends justify the means" for comfort.

If you're selling a car, and I break into your house and steal the car and take it for a ride, can I justify it by saying "well, if I liked it, I was going to pay you for it"? That wouldn't hold up in a court.

yorkshire

Apr 17, 2009, 10:18 AM

Jail seems a tad harsh. I hope the appeal is successful.

yojitani

Apr 17, 2009, 10:20 AM

Ethically maybe. Legally no. And that's a bit too "ends justify the means" for comfort.

If you're selling a car, and I break into your house and steal the car and take it for a ride, can I justify it by saying "well, if I liked it, I was going to pay you for it"? That wouldn't hold up in a court.

That analogy doesn't really hold up because if I was selling a car, I would allow you to test drive it. With some things, there is no test drive. I'm not a big downloader, but the most recent instance I did something like this waswith Mavis Beacon software. They don't have a trial version and I wasn't going to spend money on a program that I had never tried. I downloaded it from through a torrent site... turns out I didn't like it so for me, it was worth it, but technically illegal.

notjustjay

Apr 17, 2009, 10:59 AM

That analogy doesn't really hold up because if I was selling a car, I would allow you to test drive it. With some things, there is no test drive. I'm not a big downloader, but the most recent instance I did something like this waswith Mavis Beacon software. They don't have a trial version and I wasn't going to spend money on a program that I had never tried. I downloaded it from through a torrent site... turns out I didn't like it so for me, it was worth it, but technically illegal.

True, and agreed. I'm not saying I wouldn't be tempted to do the same. Just that, by the letter of the law, it's not legal. "Personally I think that <circumstance> is OK" doesn't hold water, legally.

In a perfect world we'd be able to download anything we wanted as a free trial to make sure the software worked and we liked it. In that perfect world we'd also all be honest and pay for the software when we decide we like it, instead of cracking and copying it, depriving the developers of revenue. One goes with the other, so unfortunately it doesn't happen that way.

Teh Don Ditty

Apr 17, 2009, 11:19 AM

This is absolutely absurd!!!

michael.lauden

Apr 17, 2009, 11:24 AM

Link to BBC News Report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8003799.stm).

Just the other day I read on BBC News that one of the founders was 'confident' they would be found not-guilty. Seems like they have to serve 1 year in jail and pay £2.4million in damages... ouch!

jeez! harsh... the pirate bay is still online though - and im sure that business made enough to pay off the fines.

i expected more like 5-10M and no jail sentence though

thunderclap

Apr 17, 2009, 11:43 AM

The problem that I see is that this opens a huge can of worms. What's to stop them (the MPAA, RIAA, etc.) from going after ISP's or any company that gets in the middle of the torrent site/share site and the ISP?

I don't think it will change anything for the immediate future, but if the appeals fails then it's a different story.

Though, as someone mentioned on a different forum, you take TPB out of the picture and four more will pop up.

Macaddicttt

Apr 17, 2009, 12:15 PM

Should spend more effort on stopping the actual crime - the serial up-loaders.

Stopping the the serial uploaders would be like going after pimps, but not shutting down brothels. It makes no sense and will ultimately be ineffective because there will always be more pimps. You have to hit the biggest point of contact.

These guys provided an infrastructure that was designed to break copyright law and should be held responsible. It'd be like owning a chop-shop, letting thieves chop up cars to sell them, and expecting to get off scott-free just because you weren't doing the actual chopping. The logic makes no sense whatsoever.

maestro55

Apr 17, 2009, 12:39 PM

Stopping the the serial uploaders would be like going after pimps, but not shutting down brothels. It makes no sense and will ultimately be ineffective because there will always be more pimps. You have to hit the biggest point of contact.

These guys provided an infrastructure that was designed to break copyright law and should be held responsible. It'd be like owning a chop-shop, letting thieves chop up cars to sell them, and expecting to get off scott-free just because you weren't doing the actual chopping. The logic makes no sense whatsoever.

But not all torrents are of copyright material. I see the two sides here, if I owned a shop and did legitimate work but knew that it was being used to chop up stolen cars, I could be considered an accessory; however, what would happen if I left the country and they started using my shop as a chop-shop and I didn't know about it?

What if I have the shop, post instructions on how to chop up cars and left town? Technically I am innocent from any crimes, the instructions are covered under freedom of press and if people decide to use my shop and follow the instructions without my knowledge than that is their problem.

It is very shaky ground indeed. But seriously, I think the courts need to worry about the bigger problems that surround the world and stop trying to help multi-billion record companies and film industries that do not treat employees and artists fairly.

Macaddicttt

Apr 17, 2009, 01:44 PM

It is very shaky ground indeed. But seriously, I think the courts need to worry about the bigger problems that surround the world and stop trying to help multi-billion record companies and film industries that do not treat employees and artists fairly.

Perhaps, but I'd like to point out the lunacy of the surprise expressed by those convicted. They knew they were in murky territory legally, yet skirted that risk in full knowledge of the fact that 99% of the use of their site was for illegal purposes.

I know that torrents can be used for legal purposes, and that's why I don't think you should go after those making torrent software (it'd be like going after the guys who make wrenches when trying to bust chop shopping), but the intent of those running the site was in no way for legal purposes. They knew it was 99% or more for pirating copyright material, as is evidenced by their very name. They can protest current copyright laws, but providing a forum explicitly for breaking those laws and expecting to be out of reach of the law is ridiculous.

It'd be like protesting Prohibition by running a speakeasy and expecting not to be prosecuted. I know that the law of Prohibition was much more straightforward than this Pirate Bay business, but my point is that if you protest by breaking laws, even if you're in legally murky waters, you can't be surprised if the law eventually catches up with you.

Rodimus Prime

Apr 17, 2009, 01:47 PM

But not all torrents are of copyright material. I see the two sides here, if I owned a shop and did legitimate work but knew that it was being used to chop up stolen cars, I could be considered an accessory; however, what would happen if I left the country and they started using my shop as a chop-shop and I didn't know about it?

What if I have the shop, post instructions on how to chop up cars and left town? Technically I am innocent from any crimes, the instructions are covered under freedom of press and if people decide to use my shop and follow the instructions without my knowledge than that is their problem.

It is very shaky ground indeed. But seriously, I think the courts need to worry about the bigger problems that surround the world and stop trying to help multi-billion record companies and film industries that do not treat employees and artists fairly.

I think there PB case breaks down is they refused to removed torrents of copy righted material AFTER BEING ASKED

Now I do not think it should be PB job to check to see if *blank* torrent is legal. But if they are given a court order or a official letter to remove *blank* torrent file from their servers then they should comply instead they would make a joke of it. They did that to apple when they where hosting the OSX torrent files.

I see this going the same way as Napster in the end. The record companies won. This is just another torrent site that is being killed off. I have a fairly long list in my book marks that over the past 5 years I have watch them be removed and shut down by court cases. The companies sueing more often than not would bankrupt the sites with legal fees if they did not out right win.

Napster first fought the battle and used the same defense as PB. Next they agreed to use software blocking the names of common bands and songs. That did not last very long before common misspellings took their place. It ended with Napster being shut down.

NoSmokingBandit

Apr 17, 2009, 03:16 PM

I dont think the RIAA realizes that this is just going to piss off more people than it will help. I'll admit, i dont buy most of the music that ends up on my computer, but now i am more inclined to not buy the few albums i had planned to. The RIAA isnt fixing any problems, they are punishing the wrong people, and they arent going to stop music pirates by acting like tools.

Schtumple

Apr 17, 2009, 03:37 PM

All I can say is this just makes me want to go download anything I can, regardless of if I want it, I'm guessing there will be a backlash, anyone that truly wants to support the Pirate Bay, buy a t-shirt, I plan on buying one, if it does go down (I doubt it will), at least you'll have a symbol of the golden age of torrents.

maestro55

Apr 17, 2009, 03:49 PM

I see this going the same way as Napster in the end. The record companies won.

The record companies won against Napster, but did they really win? eMule came about and there is still Limewire and other p2p stuff out there where people download Millions of copyright files. I don't really bother with Torrents for any software (even the legal stuff) as they are slow and frankly too much of a risk for trojans and other things. I would much rather buy my software and have it work. And for Music I have become addicted to the iTunes store. But I used to be a big offender and one of those would just find another place to get my goods when one site was shut down. I was using Napster back in the day and when it got shut down I went and found something else (eDonkey) and later eMule.

NoSmokingBandit

Apr 17, 2009, 04:19 PM

I see this going the same way as Napster in the end. The record companies won.

The record companies won against napster, but they lost against file sharing. Torrents have taken over and are much easier/safer anyway. If torrents go down (which i doubt is even possible) then someone will make an even more efficient file-sharing system and the record companies will fight it out with them.

Rodimus Prime

Apr 17, 2009, 06:25 PM

The record companies won against napster, but they lost against file sharing. Torrents have taken over and are much easier/safer anyway. If torrents go down (which i doubt is even possible) then someone will make an even more efficient file-sharing system and the record companies will fight it out with them.

Music is not as easy to download or fine on torrents as it was through napster, Limewire, WinMX ect. People are going after RIAA on this but this is more the movie industry turn to lead the attack on file sharing. Just everyone thinks it is the RIAA...

For movies and software torrents rule the day.

What made thinks like WinMX so hard to track is there was not central server to hit. Torrents biggest weakness is the central servers that host the files.

Anuba

Apr 18, 2009, 12:18 AM

Hmmm, tricky ground here. Seems we are convicting people for crimes they did not commit. Next logical step is to prosecute the ISPs?
Crime is about intent, not the end result itself.

Murder and involuntary manslaughter -- same end result, very different crimes, and the difference is: What was on the defendant's mind?

The Pirate Bay quartet can go on all day splitting hairs, explaining technicalities and how they don't actually host the files themselves, but that's irrelevant -- what was their intent? Well... to make money by making copyrighted material available for free. It wasn't like "oops, well well, looks like our little search engine accidentally picked up some illegal stuff here. Not our fault". Pirate Bay wasn't being abused, it was being used for precisely what the founders intended. It's called "Pirate Bay" for crying out loud.

ISP's don't offer their services with the explicit intention of providing easy access to warez. If someone abuses their service for this, so be it, but the ISP didn't condone or encourage it, it wasn't their sales pitch, it wasn't why the service was built in the first place. The same can be said about Google or even YouTube. But not about Pirate Bay.

Compile 'em all

Apr 18, 2009, 12:25 AM

Crime is about intent, not the end result itself.

Murder and involuntary manslaughter -- same end result, very different crimes, and the difference is: What was on the defendants mind?

Did I read that right?

Did you actually compare sharing digital media to Murder and manslaughter?

sheesh.

btw crime has ALWAYS been about the end result not intent.

Anuba

Apr 18, 2009, 12:28 AM

Did I read that right?

Did you actually compare sharing digital media to Murder and manslaughter?

sheesh.
You didn't read it right, no. Perhaps because you were itching to read it wrong.

It was an analogy. You probably know how analogies work. When someone says "a Mac is to a PC what a BMW is to a Honda", it doesn't actually mean that they're suggesting that computers are personal transport vehicles with wheels.

btw crime has ALWAYS been about the end result not intent.
Oh, OK. So anything that ends in death is murder, then. The next time someone trips over your foot and accidentally dies, you're going straight to the electric chair. And attempted murder is no longer a crime, because according to your logic, if the victim didn't die there was no crime at all.

Bobdude161

Apr 18, 2009, 01:36 AM

You didn't read it right, no. Perhaps because you were itching to read it wrong.

It was an analogy. You probably know how analogies work. When someone says "a Mac is to a PC what a BMW is to a Honda", it doesn't actually mean that they're suggesting that computers are personal transport vehicles with wheels.

Oh, OK. So anything that ends in death is murder, then. The next time someone trips over your foot and accidentally dies, you're going straight to the electric chair. And attempted murder is no longer a crime, because according to your logic, if the victim didn't die there was no crime at all.

very nice! :cool: I have been guilty of using TPB and other torrent sites, but recently I have been cleaning up my act and buying software that I actually need and not having the one's I can't afford or really don't need just so I can fill a void.

Anuba

Apr 18, 2009, 02:14 AM

very nice! :cool: I have been guilty of using TPB and other torrent sites, but recently I have been cleaning up my act and buying software that I actually need and not having the one's I can't afford or really don't need just so I can fill a void.
Oh I used to do the same thing, but I cleaned up my act, bought licenses for all the software I use and started getting music from iTunes Store.

I still have one guilty torrent pleasure, though... I follow a lot of American TV shows but since I live in Sweden, I won't get to see them on TV until several weeks (in some cases months) after they first aired in the US, and I can't buy them from iTunes Store where I live, and I can't watch them online because the American TV networks block video streaming for outsiders, so... I get them with uTorrent.

Teh Don Ditty

Apr 18, 2009, 09:56 AM

So how is stealing TV shows any different from stealing software? :confused:

Eraserhead

Apr 18, 2009, 10:07 AM

So how is stealing TV shows any different from stealing software? :confused:

Because outside the streaming services now offered its pretty difficult to get TV shows legally on your computer. And it does seem stupid that you can't watch stuff as soon as its actually released in the country of origin and that you have to wait...

Teh Don Ditty

Apr 18, 2009, 10:10 AM

^ A lot of TV shows are online. I will concede that waiting is dumb, but regardless you're still pirating no matter how you slice it. I think my point was the above posters are being all high and mighty by not stealing software but stealing TV shows.

Anyways, I can't really preach too much because I download pretty much anything and everything.

Anuba

Apr 18, 2009, 11:52 AM

So how is stealing TV shows any different from stealing software? :confused:
Who said it was? It's copyrighted material no matter how you slice it. Even if I would be able to watch the show legally for free about 2 weeks later.

From the producers' point of view, though, there's a world of difference. A music artist gets money through other channels than album sales, they get royalties for TV and radio playback plus ticket sales while they're on tour. A TV show is paid for by advertising, and then there's syndication, DVD sales etc.

A piece of software can't go on tour and play live, it can't be played in theaters or on TV and there will be no royalties from radio. Software piracy cuts off the producer's only source of income, and is therefore ten times more damaging than movie or music piracy.

So there may not be any difference from a legal perspective, but from a moral perspective software piracy is pure murder while TV show piracy is more like a slap on the wrist.

Eraserhead

Apr 18, 2009, 12:16 PM

Who said it was? It's copyrighted material no matter how you slice it. Even if I would be able to watch the show legally for free about 2 weeks later.

It getting better, but I did some research on a torrent website just now. Gossip Girl series 2 episode 20 is available there, in the UK we've only seen episode 12, so that's 8 weeks behind. And that's good as these things go - its only improved to that level due to the torrenting of TV shows.

I'm watching the episodes legally on itv.com or from iTunes, but it is a hell of a temptation.

Anuba

Apr 18, 2009, 12:30 PM

It getting better, but I did some research on a torrent website just now. Gossip Girl series 2 episode 20 is available there, in the UK we've only seen episode 12, so that's 8 weeks behind. And that's good as these things go - its only improved to that level due to the torrenting of TV shows.
Yeah, torrenting has forced the TV network to narrow the gap between US air date and local air date. In Sweden, Lost used to be a couple of months behind, but now it's down to two weeks. Unfortunately they always add these goddamn Swedish subtitles which is useful for most people but I don't want them. Oh well, could've been worse... in Italy, France and Germany they insist on bringing in actors and overdubbing every goddamn episode. I tried to watch The Simpsons once when I was in Paris, it was awful. "Bonjour Homer! Mangez mes shorts!"
http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-31.gif

zioxide

Apr 18, 2009, 05:38 PM

Its not like thats actually gonna do anything. More trackers are just gonna keep opening up. They'll never be able to stop it.

Mintin8

Apr 18, 2009, 06:18 PM

chrmjenkins

Apr 18, 2009, 09:07 PM

btw crime has ALWAYS been about the end result not intent.

So we should free all the people convicted of attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder?

Eraserhead

Apr 19, 2009, 05:02 AM

Its not like thats actually gonna do anything. More trackers are just gonna keep opening up. They'll never be able to stop it.

Except that it wont ever be as big as PirateBay as once other sites get big the governments in question will be forced to shut them down pretty quickly unless they are very powerful - especially if they have lax copyright rules at home.

I'd expect the Dutch to be lent on to shut down the big torrent tracker site located there pretty soon like the Swedes were leaned on in this case.

takao

Apr 19, 2009, 06:47 AM

Yeah, torrenting has forced the TV network to narrow the gap between US air date and local air date. In Sweden, Lost used to be a couple of months behind, but now it's down to two weeks. Unfortunately they always add these goddamn Swedish subtitles which is useful for most people but I don't want them. Oh well, could've been worse... in Italy, France and Germany they insist on bringing in actors and overdubbing every goddamn episode. I tried to watch The Simpsons once when I was in Paris, it was awful. "Bonjour Homer! Mangez mes shorts!"
http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-31.gif

and that overdubbing puts a ridiculous lag into tv shows .. especially those who make jokes about current events etc.

for example: when "How i met your Mother" episode aired the first time in german speaking countries it was already _3 years old_

and then of course the thanksgiving episodes and christmas episodes also always get non lined up... christmas episodes in the summer ... all the time

big bang theory wont start very likely until next year etc.

also quite a bit of shows don't even make it because they get canceled i nthe US even if they might be a hit in another country

Eraserhead

Apr 19, 2009, 06:59 AM

and that overdubbing puts a ridiculous lag into tv shows .. especially those who make jokes about current events etc.

Given how many people in Europe speak English these days I don't know why they don't just stick the original soundtrack with subtitles for those who don't understand it.

SactoGuy18

Apr 19, 2009, 07:57 AM

The record companies won against napster, but they lost against file sharing.

Actually, what really changed the music downloading scene was the arrival of the iTunes Music Store in 2003, which made downloadable music all the rage. Apple was overwhelmingly the biggest player in town until the Amazon MP3 Download store started to encroach on the scene in 2007, at least here in the USA.

Anuba

Apr 19, 2009, 08:07 AM

Its not like thats actually gonna do anything. More trackers are just gonna keep opening up. They'll never be able to stop it.
This could be said of every type of crime in the book. Shoplifting, DUI, rape, drug pushing, tax fraud, murder... they'll never be able to stop it so let's just all give up, shut down the legal system, sit back and roll a joint.

Newsflash: "They're just gonna continue" was never an argument for ceasing efforts to fight something, it's an argument for ramping up the efforts. And you better pray that it works because if it doesn't, innocent people will have to take the fall as always and one day you're gonna have to go down to the police station and surf the internet under the supervision of a cop if you want to go online at all. Just like innocent people can no longer bring a frickin' bottle of shampoo on an airplane because of certain individuals' desire to hijack planes and fly them into buildings.

Eraserhead

Apr 19, 2009, 08:12 AM

Just like innocent people can no longer bring a frickin' bottle of shampoo on an airplane because of certain individuals' desire to hijack planes and fly them into buildings.

Yeah, but that's just our governments getting overly paranoid.

Anuba

Apr 19, 2009, 08:21 AM

Given how many people in Europe speak English these days I don't know why they don't just stick the original soundtrack with subtitles for those who don't understand it.
That's what they do in most countries. The only stuff that's dubbed in Scandinavia are shows and movies for children aged 0-8. Whenever there's something that appeals both to kids and adults, like Finding Nemo, they'll run the dubbed version in some theaters and the English soundtrack with subtitles in others.

Overdubbing is only done in countries that are still miffed about English becoming the world language, like France and Germany. The French are so stuck up about it they have this special language police ("Académie Française") that tries to fight anglification of the language by inventing and promoting French words for everything, and banning use of English terms. Like "e-mail"; when the French started saying "e-mail" it was soon announced by the authorities that the correct term is "courriel" and nothing else, zut alors!!. France, Germany, Italy and Spain are among the few countries in Western Europe where you can't get by on English. In Scandinavia or the Netherlands, no problem. Studying English is mandatory in Sweden from 2nd grade (age 8) until 9th grade (age 15). Not so in France, they can study English if they want but the majority pick Spanish or Italian as their second language.

It's amusing though. A few of the voice actors in Europe who do the voice Arnold Schwarzenegger's characters are apparently really skinny. Problems arise when the characters have accents (think Inspector Clouseau) or speak the local language (think the Germans in Saving Private Ryan). Does Arnold have an extra German accent in German dubbed versions of the Terminator movies?

Eraserhead

Apr 19, 2009, 11:14 AM

France, Germany, Italy and Spain are among the few countries in Western Europe where you can't get by on English.

I think they just started learning later, all the people I have met while travelling from those countries have spoken excellent English.

They certainly speak better English than in South America where most films are subtitled - I'd expect that to be the same in Spain too...

Anuba

Apr 19, 2009, 11:58 AM

I think they just started learning later, all the people I have met while travelling from those countries have spoken excellent English.
Right, but those people were travellers so they were obviously interested in the outside world. How many Americans speak a language other than English (first- and second generation immigrants excluded)?

I've been to both Paris and Frankfurt, and... in Paris there were very few people who spoke English, four out of five cab drivers didn't, three out of five store clerks didn't, and you'd expect more from people who have to deal with tourists daily through their profession. Fortunately I've studied French, though my French was very rusty at the time (some 10 years after school).

As for Frankfurt, I'd say about 50% spoke English (albeit poorly) and the rest didn't, and I noticed some pride there. Some reluctantly spoke English after pretending not to understand, some took slight offense when addressed in English, and some even kept talking back in German out of pure spite, though I had made clear I didn't speak the language.

If you go to Scandinavia you'll find that everyone speaks decent English except people over 60 or thereabouts. Subtitles probably have something to do with it, people subconsciously pick up English words by having the dialog and the translated text side-by-side. You don't learn a word from overdubbed material, obviously.

it5five

Apr 19, 2009, 02:11 PM

The French are so stuck up about it they have this special language police ("Académie Française") that tries to fight anglification of the language by inventing and promoting French words for everything, and banning use of English terms. Like "e-mail"; when the French started saying "e-mail" it was soon announced by the authorities that the correct term is "courriel" and nothing else, zut alors!!.

Yes, though email is "courrier électronique" in French, you would probably never use it while talking to another person. All of my French professors use "e-mail" rather than the "official" word. We were taught the official word, but told that "email" is overwhelmingly used. Just like how people would probably think you're pretty strange if you used "planche à roulette" instead of "skateboard".

edesignuk

Apr 20, 2009, 07:26 AM

Music industry sites DDoSed after Pirate Bay verdict

Hacktivists have launched denial of service attacks against music industry association ifpi.org and lawyers involved in the prosecution of the four Pirate Bay defendants in the wake of a guilty verdict against the quartet last Friday.

The assault has rendered ifpi.org - the main website of the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry - intermittently unavailable or sluggish for a time on Monday morning.The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/20/ddos_hacktivism_pirate_bay/).

heh.

remmy

Apr 20, 2009, 08:13 AM

oh how terrible :D

Anuba

Apr 20, 2009, 10:43 AM

Music industry sites DDoSed after Pirate Bay verdict

Hacktivists have launched denial of service attacks against music industry association ifpi.org and lawyers involved in the prosecution of the four Pirate Bay defendants in the wake of a guilty verdict against the quartet last Friday.
So... this "news" item is in fact not news at all, just another confirmation of the fact that hacktivists are mental 5 year olds...?

Now that Guantanamo is being cleared out, maybe they should fill it with hacktivists. I have a feeling that these scrawny, basement-dwelling "rebels" could withstand no more than 2 seconds of waterboarding before they start crying for mom.

yojitani

Apr 23, 2009, 01:57 PM

Here's an interesting development:

Pirate Bay judge denies conflict of interest (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/23/pirate-bay-judge)

Sveriges Radio, described as Sweden's answer to the BBC, said that judge Norström is not only a member of the Swedish Copyright Association but also sits on the board of the Swedish Association for the Protection of Industrial Property, an organisation that lobbies for tougher copyright laws. The four co-founders of Pirate Bay were found guilty last week of charges relating to copyright infringement.

Judge Norström today denied his involvement with the two pro-copyright organisations constituted a "conflict of interest" ...

Not a conflict of interest?! :rolleyes:

joepunk

Apr 23, 2009, 06:35 PM

Don't you mean, conflict of IntARRRRRest :D

MorzillA

Apr 23, 2009, 11:24 PM

Here's an interesting development:

Pirate Bay judge denies conflict of interest (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/23/pirate-bay-judge)

Not a conflict of interest?! :rolleyes:

So does this mean, TPB will be eventually be "down", does this have anything to do with TPB being moved to the Netherlands (if im not mistaken)?? If so then what happens to those who have uploaded????
It would be a real shame, after all the many Mac apps that TPB has had over the other torrent sites.

"oh....y ahora quien nos podra ayudar?!"

:apple:

Mr. lax

Apr 23, 2009, 11:35 PM

So does this mean, TPB will be eventually be "down", does this have anything to do with TPB being moved to the Netherlands (if im not mistaken)?? If so then what happens to those who have uploaded????
It would be a real shame, after all the many Mac apps that TPB has had over the other torrent sites.

"oh....y ahora quien nos podra ayudar?!"

:apple:

When the verdict was passed the crew said that tpb would never be shut down

DoFoT9

Apr 26, 2009, 10:38 PM

pretty sure TPB is down :( bye bye

jecapaga

Apr 26, 2009, 10:40 PM

pretty sure TPB is down :( bye bye

yeah...she's down right now.

DoFoT9

Apr 26, 2009, 10:41 PM

yeah...she's down right now.

ive switched to demonoid. anybody know if the trackers are still working?

Mr. lax

Apr 26, 2009, 11:11 PM

Wow, i hope not, if so thats 2 torrent sites a follow reasonably closely in the last 2 days (superfundo ++ the pirate bay)

Compile 'em all

Apr 26, 2009, 11:37 PM

btjunkie and mininova are pretty solid trackers. hopefully tpb will be back up soonish!

DoFoT9

Apr 26, 2009, 11:37 PM

Wow, i hope not, if so thats 2 torrent sites a follow reasonably closely in the last 2 days (superfundo ++ the pirate bay)

btjunkie and mininova are pretty solid trackers. hopefully tpb will be back up soonish!

its still up

http://ipv6.thepiratebay.org.ipv4.sixxs.org/

Mr. lax

Apr 26, 2009, 11:55 PM

btjunkie and mininova are pretty solid trackers. hopefully tpb will be back up soonish!

I don't use it much anymore but if there are things i'm looking for the demonoid doesn't have TPB is always my first choice

iBlue

Apr 27, 2009, 03:33 AM

Well it does appear to be down. Damn.

Peterkro

Apr 27, 2009, 04:40 AM

Update: The Pirate Bay is down at the moment due to technical problems, they will be back soon.
http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-ips-assigned-to-prosecution-lawyers-090426/

As of April 27, 2009 the website of the Pirate Bay had some ipv4 connectivity issues due to a fiber issue.(from the Wiki entry)

DoFoT9

Apr 27, 2009, 04:45 AM

Update: The Pirate Bay is down at the moment due to technical problems, they will be back soon.
http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-bay-ips-assigned-to-prosecution-lawyers-090426/

excellent. i want my matrix to hurry up and finish!!!

my torrents are downloading again, im guessing its back up :)

Peterkro

Apr 27, 2009, 05:47 AM

excellent. i want my matrix to hurry up and finish!!!

The ipv6 address you posted is still working albeit rather slowly,don't know about the trackers though.

my torrents are downloading again, im guessing its back up :)

Jolly good,ooh arrr.:)

DoFoT9

Apr 27, 2009, 05:53 AM

Jolly good,ooh arrr.:)

its good isnt it :)

Mr. lax

Apr 27, 2009, 06:30 PM

Its back!!

DoFoT9

Apr 27, 2009, 07:46 PM

Its back!!

and only 12 hours late :rolleyes: :p

Mr. lax

Apr 27, 2009, 07:59 PM

and only 12 hours late :rolleyes: :p

Sshhh, i had school and sleeping to do

DoFoT9

Apr 27, 2009, 08:06 PM

Sshhh, i had school and sleeping to do

ok your lucky, ill let you off this once :cool:

MorzillA

May 6, 2009, 12:41 PM

I got this instead.....

Schtumple

May 6, 2009, 05:32 PM

I got this instead.....

http://thepiratebay.org/

Try that link instead, rather than your modified one...

MorzillA

May 7, 2009, 09:06 AM

it's running today again.......:confused:

mscriv

May 8, 2009, 02:32 PM

I watched a program on the Science Channel last night about the new science of networks that seems really applicable to this topic. They basically postulate a theory similar to the "Six degrees of Kevin Bacon" that seeks to define and map out how networks work in all areas of life. One of the featured scientist actually mapped the internet as a study of networks and he describes the presence of "hubs" that are massive connection points in the network.

If you were to apply this theory to torrents or file sharing then it would be the existence of these hub like entities that make the vast majority of connections available. Thus, the RIAA, movie studios, or any copyright holder has the greatest impact by going after hubs that enable massive connections. Napster and Pirate Bay are perfect examples of this. The other fact is what legal precedent is being set and how will it affect other sharing sites or networks.

If you want to check it out the show was called, "Connected: The Power of Six Degrees" You can find air times at the Science Channel website. I thought it was pretty cool.