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DuckSoup
Feb 16, 2009, 10:12 AM
Twas just a matter of time...

LAS VEGAS (AP) Nevada gambling regulators have warned casinos in the state about a card-counting program that works on Apple's iPhone and iPod Touch that illegally helps players beat the house in blackjack.

The rest of the article is at
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2009-02-16-iphone-card-counting_N.htm

Mike



northy124
Feb 16, 2009, 10:19 AM
Whats the program called? as it doesn't say in the artical

Edit: I found it :D

Lord Blackadder
Feb 16, 2009, 10:30 AM
Casinos are legalized theft, so trying to beat them at their own game is only fair.

Grumps87
Feb 16, 2009, 10:36 AM
Woot? Who really uses a card counting devices in the casino? For god sake the app is designed to buff up your card counting skill and not to do the on the spot calculation for you.

skye12
Feb 16, 2009, 10:55 AM
you might consider it fair, but if you're caught using an external device its prison time!

northy124
Feb 16, 2009, 11:27 AM
you might consider it fair, but if you're caught using an external device its prison time!
It isn't illegal they will just ban you from the casino and take your device (I think that is all they will do)

plumbingandtech
Feb 16, 2009, 11:42 AM
Casinos are legalized theft, so trying to beat them at their own game is only fair.

Right. They force their players to turn over their wallets at gun point...
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Lord Blackadder
Feb 16, 2009, 11:51 AM
Right. They force their players to turn over their wallets at gun point...
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm not on some moral crusade against casinos, don't get me wrong. But living in Nevada for a little while has shown how many addicts there are in those places - they cash their paychecks in there and blow most of it. So much the worse for them I suppose, but by the same token I couldn't care less about people "defrauding" casinos by beating them at their own game of fleecing idiots out of their money.

MacRumors
Feb 16, 2009, 01:21 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/02/16/nevada-casinos-watching-for-iphone-toting-card-counters/)

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports (http://www.lvrj.com/business/39633187.html) that the Nevada Gaming Control Board has alerted the state's casinos to the existence of card-counting programs for the iPhone and iPod touch. Card counting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_counting) is a strategy for card games mostly commonly applied to blackjack in which a player tracks the values of cards being played to determine when the cards remaining to be dealt are more likely to be in the player's favor, and adjusts his or her betting accordingly.Card counting is not illegal in Nevada casinos. However, using a device to aid in the counting of cards is considered a felony under Nevada laws governing cheating, control board member Randy Sayre said.

Gamblers using the iPhone card-counting program can be detained by casino operators and arrested by state gaming agents.While the specific application described in the alert was not identified in the news article, the description of the application suggests that it may be A Blackjack Card Counter [App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=294151538&mt=8)]:The program uses four different strategies for card counting. It also operates in the "stealth mode," in which the phone's screen is shut off. The program can be run effortlessly without detection as long as the user knows where the keys are.The Nevada gaming commission was tipped off to the existence of card-counting iPhone applications by the California Bureau of Gambling Control, and although the Nevada board has not received any reports from casinos about players using the applications, they decided to alert the state's casinos in order to raise awareness of the issue.

Article Link: Nevada Casinos Watching for iPhone-Toting Card Counters (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/02/16/nevada-casinos-watching-for-iphone-toting-card-counters/)

iVoid
Feb 16, 2009, 01:24 PM
Most casinos won't let you use a cell phone at a table anyway.

alexbates
Feb 16, 2009, 01:25 PM
Haha, the iPhone Apps really can be used for anything... and now its causing trouble.

Most casinos won't let you use a cell phone at a table anyway.

I couldn't imagine what it would be like if they did. You could have someone texting you what other people's cards were.

thevofl
Feb 16, 2009, 01:47 PM
I was in Vegas at a table game where there was a gentleman who was talking on his cell phone. The dealer asked him if he was in. He nodded that he was in but continued his conversation. The dealer pushed his bet off the center and dealt him out.

The man hung up and was upset that he was dealt out. The dealer kindly said that cell phone use was not allowed. He apologized for interrupting the game but still insisted that he should have been allowed in the hand. After one additional hand was dealt, he started texting. The dealer stopped the game and asked him to finish his text. The other player and I waited a short time for him to finish.

About five minutes later, he was back to texting. The other player yelled at him to play or leave. The player became upset and left to another table.

The dealer was completely professional and courteous at all this. The pit boss came by for a report. I watched him go to the phone and place a call, I guess to security.

They are dead serious about cell phone usage. I wouldn't risk it.

Lesser Evets
Feb 16, 2009, 02:02 PM
Casinos are legalized theft, so trying to beat them at their own game is only fair.

That's insane: "Legalized theft." They never TAKE the money from you. If you sit down to play, you're the fool. It's legalized donation from dimwits to wealthy hucksters, actually. The government is more like legalized theft than casinos--you can walk around a casino, but you can't walk around the government.

Lord Blackadder
Feb 16, 2009, 02:07 PM
That's insane: "Legalized theft." They never TAKE the money from you. If you sit down to play, you're the fool. It's legalized donation from dimwits to wealthy hucksters, actually. The government is more like legalized theft than casinos--you can walk around a casino, but you can't walk around the government.

I hope you're not suggesting making taxation optional - and for me at least, I don't feel like the government is stealing from me. I pay taxes so that I have police, running water, electricity, functioning sewers, roads etc. Casinos are just for-profit private businesses.

fo0bar
Feb 16, 2009, 02:19 PM
I couldn't imagine what it would be like if they did. You could have someone texting you what other people's cards were.

For a game like poker, yes, but there is no value in keeping your cards secret in blackjack. Indeed, training/casual tables are often played with all player cards face up, and it doesn't change the odds at all.

I imagine banning cellphones at tables is mostly a blanket rule, so the pit staff don't have to use extra determination of whether it would be easy for the player to cheat.

Doctor Q
Feb 16, 2009, 02:47 PM
A felony for using an iPhone app? Ulp!

I thought they just ask you to leave.

kmcrawford
Feb 16, 2009, 03:24 PM
That would really take guts to use. Vegas doesn't play around.

rockosmodurnlif
Feb 16, 2009, 03:26 PM
Because nothing says "stealth" like an iPhone on the table.

speedbumpnv
Feb 16, 2009, 03:39 PM
For a game like poker, yes, but there is no value in keeping your cards secret in blackjack. Indeed, training/casual tables are often played with all player cards face up, and it doesn't change the odds at all.

I imagine banning cellphones at tables is mostly a blanket rule, so the pit staff don't have to use extra determination of whether it would be easy for the player to cheat.

cheating with a cell phone is a concern. however, cell phones at the tables are also a detraction from the game and are often a nuisance to others at the table. the house wants you playing the game, not talking on the phone.

communication devices are not the most affective cheating tools at house-vs.-player games unless you are communicating with the dealer or other house employee. i am not aware of any table games where other players are not allowed to see your cards. the dealer even steps in to help in most cases. a small advantage can be had in poker-like games where the players can conclude what the dealer doesn't have by looking at the cards already dealt to the players. however, i have not come across any place locally that enforces a rule along these lines.

what is confusing is when in the poker room where you are put up against other players and not the house, cell phones are allowed, at least in some places.

A felony for using an iPhone app? Ulp!

I thought they just ask you to leave.

in this case, the phone acts as a device that can give the player an elevated advantage. if you are just talking on the phone, they just ask you to step away from the table till you finish. if you are using it to cheat, then you are arrested.

BornAgainMac
Feb 16, 2009, 06:14 PM
What about using the Fart application at the table?

scott523
Feb 16, 2009, 06:28 PM
What about using the Fart application at the table?
Not sure why you are asking this when you could have read the first three replies to see your answer. They'll probably stop play if that happens.

Doctor Q
Feb 16, 2009, 06:32 PM
in this case, the phone acts as a device that can give the player an elevated advantage. if you are just talking on the phone, they just ask you to step away from the table till you finish. if you are using it to cheat, then you are arrested.
I guess I'll just bring my brother Rain Man along.

BornAgainMac
Feb 16, 2009, 06:47 PM
Not sure why you are asking this when you could have read the first three replies to see your answer. They'll probably stop play if that happens.

Timer. Place in pocket.

dukebound85
Feb 16, 2009, 06:48 PM
you arent allowed to have electronics near any table lol

bytethese
Feb 16, 2009, 06:56 PM
Most casinos won't let you use a cell phone at a table anyway.

True, but they are pretty lax. I've used my phone to text while playing blackjack, I just can't put the phone on the table at all. They are also more lax about it in the poker rooms. People call/text constantly. Unless someone speaks up, they usually don't say anything.

iCantwait
Feb 16, 2009, 07:26 PM
i was checking the train time table with my iPhone at a bj table, the dealer didnt mind, i just was rushing when i hit on 18:eek: but i got a 3:D

*this was at crown casino in Melbourne Australia tho

daskindt
Feb 16, 2009, 11:04 PM
I'm a Card Room Dealer in a small casino in Washington state. We've known about iPhone apps for Card Counting for a couple months, so I'm a little surprised that it's taken this long for an official warning to go out from the Gaming Commission in Nevada.

In most Casinos you're not allowed to use or even have out a phone or other electronic device while at the table. Poker is usually different and phones are allowed, but never at a Blackjack table.

LinMac
Feb 17, 2009, 01:24 AM
I will say that some gaming establishments clearly take this too far and turn players away with their attitudes.

I had a bad experience with one casino friends like to go to and that has cost the casino far more money than I care to admit I would lose gambling there. :D

old-wiz
Feb 17, 2009, 06:46 AM
So anyone with an iPod Touch or an iPhone will be barred from the casinos? Non-techie people who just have an iPod Touch for music will be shadowed and ejected for listening to music? The goons that work in the casinos aren't likely to be able to tell an iPod Touch from an iPhone, nor what people are doing with them.

T-Stex
Feb 17, 2009, 07:53 AM
you arent allowed to have electronics near any table lol

I've only seen this with cellphones and cameras. I occasionally play poker with headphones (just the stock Apple buds, so I can hear what's going on), and I've almost never had a problem. The only place I've seen that doesn't allow headphones at the table was Mandalay Bay. I'm sure there are others, but the majority of places I've been to (in Vegas, AC, NY, and IN) haven't said anything about iPods.

iHarrison
Feb 17, 2009, 07:54 AM
I'm heading to the casinos! :cool:

twoodcc
Feb 17, 2009, 11:24 AM
wow. they are making apps for everything on the iphone. i just hope this doesn't lead to the banning of iphones in casinos though

lftrghtparadigm
Feb 17, 2009, 11:24 AM
I've always been paranoid about checking my iPhone or wearing a single earbud while in any of Trump's Casinos. Strangely no one has ever said a word to me about either.

I probably haven't been there much since the iPhone craze really took ever. 2 summers ago with the original didn't seen to garnish much attention.

mwpeters8182
Feb 18, 2009, 12:37 PM
I'm a Card Room Dealer in a small casino in Washington state. We've known about iPhone apps for Card Counting for a couple months, so I'm a little surprised that it's taken this long for an official warning to go out from the Gaming Commission in Nevada.

In most Casinos you're not allowed to use or even have out a phone or other electronic device while at the table. Poker is usually different and phones are allowed, but never at a Blackjack table.

That's odd that they let you do that at poker - since communication there would likely help out more than at blackjack. But I guess it makes sense, because the house will still get it's per-hand cut no matter what. If other people complain, do they have the player put the phone away?