Whats the best Hybrid-Car?

[MacAztec]

Whats the best Hybrid car out there? My parents are in the market for a new car, and I suggested they get a hybrid because my dad does a lot of driving (800 miles/week in grape season). I see that the hybrids get excellent MPG, and average about 600 miles to the tank.

So, what are your thoughts/suggestions for a hybrid car? Are they worth it? Do you own one?

[Sun Baked]

Don't get the VW TDI, because you don't want to buy a car that has a long lasting drivetrain, gets rid of the battery pack, and gets nearly 1000 miles to the tank (stick shift).

The problem with the hybrid cars is: that they're basically city cars.

Meaning that long freeway miles kill the benefit of the battery recharge cycle in stop and go driving. Which is why a lot of people complained about not getting near the EPA rated mileage.

[Inspector Lee]

A guy in my apartment complex has a Toyota Prius and he raves about it. It is true that they more for city driving. The mpg numbers always read higher for the city like 48/47 (city/hwy) while the numbers on my civic are 30/38. I took a long look at the civic hybrid too but didn't pull the trigger. I read the hybrids don't perform as well during cold frigid winter months and if the battery goes it can be serious coin. Still, I'd do some research. My next vehicle will probably be a hybrid.

Nonetheless, the guy in my complex is selling his Prius because he told me he can buy a new one and take the tax credit and have it cover the depreciation on the old one - provided he sells it for a good price.

[howard]

i hear the insight is the best...with the civic being close behind (both are honda's)

the prius seems just as good though... all depends on styling and what you like better...

can't wait to see what the honda fcx does in the future... goes 220 on a "tank" but doesn't use fuel from what i can gather...there testing them in L.A. right now

all in all they seem pretty good to me. I plan on getting a hybrid...or a complete _____ engine they have that is not combustion when i get my next car (probably won't be for another 3 years)

[PlaceofDis]

the Prius is the best if you need a bigger car because the civic is small and the insight is only a two seater.....do some research, each one can fit different needs so see what would fit the best overall and then test it out

[chewbaccapits]

the Prius is the best if you need a bigger car because the civic is small and the insight is only a two seater.....do some research, each one can fit different needs so see what would fit the best overall and then test it out

I just received my Prius..I have to say its awesome..As one of the poster wrote before, the Prius really benefits from CITY driving...I was able to get 350 miles before I had to get some more petrol....I did TOO much freeway driving....
Do your research, for my wife and I the prius was the only solution..Its a gas to drive :) Plus it has so many cool features (i.e., GPS Navigation, smart entry, blah, blah, blah)


P.S. The battery is covered under the warranty for 10 years/100,000 miles

[gwuMACaddict]

the HUMMER!!

http://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/signmuahaha.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/bananaroc.gifhttp://www.cripplefight.com/smileys/rockwoot.gif

[3rdpath]

the new (2004) prius seems to be the winner for now. the only downside to the prius has been that the real mpg doesn't reach the 50-60mpg claim. but it's still excellent at around 40mpg.

honda is coming out with a hybrid accord later this year( so the rumor goes...).

toyota is for sure coming out with a hybrid highlander in late 2004 and lexus will have a hybrid version of the 330 suv fairly soon...i think it's called the 400H. both should be very nice.

the tax credit for a hybrid decreases each year...it's $1500.00 in 2004, so that may be a factor.

my next car will be a hybrid for sure.

[jelloshotsrule]

my dad just got a prius and my brother has a civic.

my brother gets around 50 mpg with the civic (it's got a manual transmission, so that helps. there is no manual option with the prius). my dad gets around 55 with the prius, though the in dash computer told him he was only getting 48 mpg... his math with the gas/trip counter told him otherwise..

as has been said, the prius is bigger and has more cargo room because the battery doesn't block you from folding down the back seats... it's basically a matrix with a hybrid engine from what i can tell. the civic is much more "normal". doesn't look like a space ship, looks like a normal civic. however, there are very few options... whereas the prius has about 6 options packages... with the top one including gps, cd changer (in dash) and tape, bluetooth for phones, etc...

the insight looks... well, heinous. but it does get about 70 mpg (supposedly).. only a 2 seater though. does your dad's trip go on a highway or backroads or what?

either way, the hybrids will still be better mileage than most cars, and the exhaust is far cleaner than most cars, and cleaner still than any diesel car.. as good mileage as those diesels get, unless you're using some good biodiesel, you're going to be spitting out some seriously bad stuff...

[howard]

i'm really happy that hybrid cars are starting to get more popular. there are so many positive points about them.

i mean so what if they can't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds...who does that anyway? might as well save even more money from speeding tickets.

i'm hoping the designs get a little better... i do like them but only kind of... i'm guessing in the next few years more will come out and the existing ones will improve. can't wait!

[rainman::|:|]

the prius, for sure. it's a great car, very versatile, and sexy... and it has options that rival (and are copied from) lexus. Once you guys try the unlocking system... you just keep a fob in your pocket, when you get to the doors they automatically unlock for you, and the car will start by pushbutton once you're inside the car. very cool stuff. my sister-in-law has a 2003 that she raved about, until the 04 came out and blew it away ;)

as for mileage, it varies based on the driving... but think of it as this: all driving done under 30mph uses no gas at all. when you're sitting at a stoplight, or in slow traffic, the engine never runs (except to power the A/C i think).

paul

[SiliconAddict]

the HUMMER!!



http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/twak.gif

;)

[SiliconAddict]

I will be going in to preorder a 2005-06 Prius Fall of this year which would make a delivery date of sometime in spring of '05 likely.

I've looked at the other options in the market and the Prius, IMHO, looks like the best of the bunch and, unless I'm drastically off, is outselling the other various hybrids and have a larger following. The three big complaints I have is that:

1. No sun/moon roof. I've taken quite a liking to having a sunroof in my car. It would be painful to give that up. Hears hoping they do some alterations in the roof in 05 or 06 to allow this.

2. Waiting period is painful. Depending on what dealer you go to you are going to end up waiting anywhere from 4-10 months.

3. WTF is with that pathetically small rear window? I thought the window in my Mercury Cougar was bad. It's just the side of being a driving hazard, IMHO.

Other then that it’s a nice car. But people have to keep in mind that being a hybrid a few things are different. Example. Cold weather driving. the Prius has a bladder that lines the gas tank. The intention is to keep gas vapor from being released. In cold weather this bladder shrinks. This has a few minor side effects.
If you are looking for a primer to the Prius I would suggest http://john1701a.com/

First off John lives up here in balmy Minnesota where the term cold isn't used until it gets into the single digits. FYI it was –40* this winter up north near the Canadian border. So john is a good standard for how well the Prius handles winter.

Prius Photo of LCD with MPG in -18* weather (http://john1701a.com/prius/photos/PriusConsumption_CloseUp_-18Fdegrees_Green.jpg)

Photo of LCD with MPG in 0* Weather (http://john1701a.com/prius/photos/PriusConsumption_AmazingColdWeatherMPG_02.jpg)

Photo of LCD with MPG in 34* Weather (http://john1701a.com/prius/photos/PriusConsumption_WhenWarmWeatherReturns.jpg)

All in all I look forward to my prius and as someone pointed out Toyota has an 8 year / 100,000 mile warrantee on the battery. So its not THAT big of a deal. *shrugs* I'll probably get an extended warrantee which would obviously cover the battery.

[JesseJames]

Heh, I just saw a Prius Hybrid on the highway yesterday. I was absolutely intrigued. I tailed him and I was surprised at how fast he was going. He was pushing 80.
My old junker has a V6 and was trying to keep up with him.

[SiliconAddict]

Heh, I just saw a Prius Hybrid on the highway yesterday. I was absolutely intrigued. I tailed him and I was surprised at how fast he was going. He was pushing 80.
My old junker has a V6 and was trying to keep up with him.


Hehe. I've read that going 100 is NOT that hard to do in a Prius. What's really cool is what is known as stealth mode on the car. Basically when you are going under 41 MPH (I think) the gas engine is off and its pure electric (Unless the car feels the need to have to recharge the batt in which case the gas engine kicks in.) When in pure electric mode the car is nearly silent. Great for clipping people in parking lots. ;)

WOOT! I got another 5,000 points! J/K

[pivo6]

SiliconAddict- Thanks for the Prius links, especially the winter info (I live in Brainerd). My wife is looking at a new car, and I suggested this one, but I didn't know too much about them.

[Dippo]

The best Hybird Car is....

a bike :)

[Scifience]

My main complaint with the '04 Prius was the back window...at the auto show, it seemed really hard to see out of.

Can anybody who owns one say if this is actually the case or not? Is it really that hard to see out of?

[brianellisrules]

My main complaint with the '04 Prius was the back window...at the auto show, it seemed really hard to see out of.

Can anybody who owns one say if this is actually the case or not? Is it really that hard to see out of?
I test drove one in the Fall and I found this to be the case. I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing you can adjust to or not though.

[MacAztec]

He drives on the highway, and in the fields (dirty mostly, bumpy) too. I think the prius is cool, but it looks ugly.

[chewbaccapits]

My main complaint with the '04 Prius was the back window...at the auto show, it seemed really hard to see out of.

Can anybody who owns one say if this is actually the case or not? Is it really that hard to see out of?

I own the 2004 model and I admit its hazardous...Very difficult when backing up..Jacks up your periphal vision....Still a great car, though... :)

[Funkatation]

Personally I'd get a VW with the TDI... gets near the same MPG as the hybrids, but its a diesel so its proven technology.. has 100hp on the new models too. Diesels tend to last longer than even regular gasoline engines, and I think service would be cheaper than a hybrid as well.

[scem0]

I own a honda civic hybrid.

It is nice, environmentally safe car. It is the only hybrid I have experience with though.

scem0

[jeffy.dee-lux]

The prius gets more peak torque than a ford expedition! hahaha, 295lb-ft! The wonder of electric motors. Of course unlike a gas engine, the peak torque for an electric motor occurs at a very low rpm, so the peak horsepower ain't that crazy, as horsepower is a product of turning force and engine speed... but still, that's pretty strong for low speeds. You should read motor trend's car of the year article on the prius.

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/car/112_04_coy_win/index2.html

Even these hard core driving enthusiasts can admit that this is a sweet car. Car and Driver had a similar response. This car has a very sophisticated drive system, its really well coordinated, and even the gas engine alone is pretty sophisticated.

Don't think that what we see now is the only form hybrid cars can come in. As someone said before, we got the hybrid highland/rx400h coming along. Those too will offer more performance than the base models, while still getting better gas mileage. Ford's releasing the hybrid escape later this year, gets 40mpg and gets equal performance to the v6 model. Toyota's talking about a 300hp hybrid supra. I just read about a mitsubishi concept this morning, supposed to turn into the next gen eclipse. It has a 270hp v6 powering the front wheels and a 200hp electric motor powering the back. Of course a production version would definitely be quite toned down, but this shows you the potential that this technology has.

Hybrid tech makes a lot of sense. There's a lot that needs to be worked out before we can replace the gas engine, so untill then, lets just make it as efficient as possible. This tech just makes it so that you make the best use of the amount of gas you put in. I wanna see sports cars abandon turbo and supercharges for battery packs and electric motors. Give your engine a boost while at the same time spend less on gas.

[Dave the Great]

What about the Ford Escape Hybrid? I think Ford has the Focus FCV, too, that is coming out - uses Hydrogen cells.

Or if he is doing that much driving, why not get something that he would really enjoy like the chrysler crossfire or bmw z4?

[SiliconAddict]

Personally I'd get a VW with the TDI... gets near the same MPG as the hybrids, but its a diesel so its proven technology.. has 100hp on the new models too. Diesels tend to last longer than even regular gasoline engines, and I think service would be cheaper than a hybrid as well.

And are a PITA in extreme winter conditions. At least with a hybrid you don't need to add additives to keep the fuel from gelling and you don't have to use glow plugs to warm up the cylinders. And I’ve been keeping an eye out for gas stations that carry diesel around here. By my count 1 in every 4 or 5 carries it. You can find it if necessary but you have to look for it which is again a PITA. When I found out about this I immediately scratched VW off my list which is a shame since the VW beetle convertible is quite nice.

[SiliconAddict]

What about the Ford Escape Hybrid? I think Ford has the Focus FCV, too, that is coming out - uses Hydrogen cells.



Forget Hydrogen. First and foremost its going to be a PITA to find a refill station for Hydrogen for at least 10 years. Secondly hybrids actually run cleaner then Hydrogen cars due to the fact that the Hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels right now. Est suggest that its going to be 30 years before Hydrogen is produced from clean sources. Right NOW hybrids release 90% fewer toxins then the average car. The Bush admin has done their damnedest to convince everyone that Hydrogen is where its at because it will take at least 5-10 years for that tech to take off. Consequently it expands the life of these gas cartels. If even a quarter of the people in America started driving hybrids tomorrow the gas industry would be screwed.

[JamesDPS]

Pretty soon (i.e. within a year or so) most manufacturers will be introducing hybrids, most of which look the same as their regular equivalents (this seemed to be the theme of the LA Auto Show). Personally, my favorite might be the Lexus RX 400h. It combines a 3.2 Liter V6 with two electric motors, to produce the HP and torque of a 4L V8, while getting better than 35mpg. And as a low-emission car, you get to use the carpool lane all the time! The best part is that it's the same as the regular RX, which is a generally good, very comfortable, affordable small SUV. I think the introduction of this SUV might quiet down some of the anti-SUV complainers in that other thread!

BTW I don't have an SUV, and wouldn't get one unless I could afford an X5, ML, or Range Rover, but I've actually been impressed with the RX - it's light, economical, fairly spacious for a small SUV, and Lexus makes some of the most reliable cars on the road. Definitely a more comfortable road-tripper than my current car (an Eclipse), so I think the 400h and a "Saturday" sports car would be the ideal combination!

Oh yeah and I didn't mention (for the "green" conscious), the Lexus RX400h is said to be able to drive well over 50,000 miles without producing as much polution as caused by painting an average-sized bedroom.

There will be lots of others very soon: bottom line is it's good to see that everyone is starting to introduce hybrids that look like normal cars, not like stupid little electric buggies, and have enough juice to get on the freeway or pass that merging big-rig... (acceleration is definitely a safety feature, as far as I'm concerned)

[Dave the Great]

"Forget Hydrogen. First and foremost its going to be a PITA to find a refill station for Hydrogen for at least 10 years."
Not if you live in California, wasn't there talk of building refuiling stations this year?

"Secondly hybrids actually run cleaner then Hydrogen cars due to the fact that the Hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels right now."
No. It can also be produced through electrolysis of water. Hydrogen has the potential to be zero emmisions.

"Est suggest that its going to be 30 years before Hydrogen is produced from clean sources."
No. It is happening right now.

"The Bush admin has done their damnedest to convince everyone that Hydrogen is where its at because it will take at least 5-10 years for that tech to take off. Consequently it expands the life of these gas cartels." Whatever. The reason that Bush is pushing Hydrogen is because it would take us off gas completely; where a hybrid still uses gas. I remember in school and chem. professors taging the Republicans for not doing anything with Hydrogen. Now they do and some how someone stills says that they are only doing this for the gas cartels. This is the kind of dribble that angers me.

[chewbaccapits]

I suggest peeps start backing up their facts...I hate when a thread starts to become a see-saw of factless theories.... :confused:

[johnnowak]

What about the Ford Escape Hybrid? I think Ford has the Focus FCV, too, that is coming out - uses Hydrogen cells.

Or if he is doing that much driving, why not get something that he would really enjoy like the chrysler crossfire or bmw z4?

Ooo the crossfire. 220hp of fury!!! :o

[MacAztec]

To clarify on the hydrogen car thing. It is NO PROBLEM for a gas station to switch to hydrogen. I read a whole article on this in Scientific American. Hydrogen can be pumped through normal gas lines, they would just have to change the pumps.

Hydrogen cars are the future, the very near future.

[Dave the Great]

Ooo the crossfire. 220hp of fury!!! :o

I never claimed it was a monsterously fast car. It looks cool and is a fun car to drive. It still gets 0-60 in 6 sec.

[Dave the Great]

I suggest peeps start backing up their facts...I hate when a thread starts to become a see-saw of factless theories.... :confused:

I don't know if this is what you are asking for, but...

Hydrogen gas stations in California - "Twenty-one of the 200 stations are scheduled to be in operation by year's end."

http://www.energyindependencenow.org/

[crazytom]

I wish I could find it somewhere, but I can't:

TechTV had a report about a BMW mini (not the Mini Cooper). It was basically a minivan shrunk down to 7 feet long. It was a 3 cylinder diesel that got 90 mpg. I've spent hours scanning for something about it, but came up fruitless. I just remember the TechTV guy talking about it's safety (it was basically a rollcage on wheels) and it's comfort (he was 6'2" and wasn't cramped at all while driving it). I'm sure that it'll be targeted for the European market because they'll assume Americans aren't seriously interested in better fuel economy...personally, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[jeffy.dee-lux]

To clarify on the hydrogen car thing. It is NO PROBLEM for a gas station to switch to hydrogen. I read a whole article on this in Scientific American. Hydrogen can be pumped through normal gas lines, they would just have to change the pumps.

Hydrogen cars are the future, the very near future.



ummm.... what's the boiling point of liquid hydrogen? like -200?C, something like that? Any storage and delivery system for hydrogen would have to be insulated like crazy, i think this is the biggest challenge in using hydrogen as a fuel for our cars.

[uzombie]

ummm.... what's the boiling point of liquid hydrogen? like -200?C, something like that? Any storage and delivery system for hydrogen would have to be insulated like crazy, i think this is the biggest challenge in using hydrogen as a fuel for our cars.

Boiling point? The hydrogen used in the car design is a gas, pressurized. It would be stored at the station in controlled tanks. Or underground. Popular Science had some article two years ago about a BMW that was H powered. the fillup stations were to be automated (no idiots, no smokers)

Its exhaust would be water vapour. Heck, with a PureSource water filter, it'd beat a camel! ;)

Thaks for the info of the Prius and Hondas. I have a friend that is interested in the Prius. I am personally interested in the Lexus 400h (RX330h?).

[Sun Baked]

I wish I could find it somewhere, but I can't:

TechTV had a report about a BMW mini (not the Mini Cooper). It was basically a minivan shrunk down to 7 feet long. It was a 3 cylinder diesel that got 90 mpg. I've spent hours scanning for something about it, but came up fruitless. I just remember the TechTV guy talking about it's safety (it was basically a rollcage on wheels) and it's comfort (he was 6'2" and wasn't cramped at all while driving it). I'm sure that it'll be targeted for the European market because they'll assume Americans aren't seriously interested in better fuel economy...personally, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.The next generation Smart vehicles will show up as a trickle this year in Canada, and should start volume production the following year 60,000 units for North America. But they still don't have the fuel economy of the Lupo.

And it's a standard production vehicle.

VW once again in the Guinness World Records™ with a lousy 101.6 mpg in a Lupo (http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_498.shtml) and the larger Polo (no weight diet body panels like the 3L) got 71.5 mpg with the same driver.

Of course these are extremes and 5mph slower than the Monroney stickers 55 mph, and people don't drive this slow.

[TimDaddy]

the prius, for sure. it's a great car, very versatile, and sexy... and it has options that rival (and are copied from) lexus. Once you guys try the unlocking system... you just keep a fob in your pocket, when you get to the doors they automatically unlock for you, and the car will start by pushbutton once you're inside the car. very cool stuff. my sister-in-law has a 2003 that she raved about, until the 04 came out and blew it away ;)

as for mileage, it varies based on the driving... but think of it as this: all driving done under 30mph uses no gas at all. when you're sitting at a stoplight, or in slow traffic, the engine never runs (except to power the A/C i think).

paul

The 2004 Prius has some type of A/C that operates without the engine running.

As for driving under 30mph = battery only, have you tried this? I won a two week trial of a 2002 Prius in a contest once. I tried to drive around without the engine running, and I was lucky to get above 12mph before the engine started. I was hoping that they would improve upon that, and if you're correct that is one hell of an improvement! I still averaged just over 40mpg, if I remember correctly. I drive about 70 miles per day, about half of which is on interstate highway, 10-15% on a little country road, and teh rest in stop and go traffic. I'm holding out for a hybrid Camry or Avalon.

[pseudobrit]

And are a PITA in extreme winter conditions. At least with a hybrid you don't need to add additives to keep the fuel from gelling and you don't have to use glow plugs to warm up the cylinders.

If you buy fuel in the area where you're driving, it should be properly winterised for your climate. I didn't use any additives through winter this year, and my TDI had no trouble starting despite the month-long period where the temps stayed around 20F and didn't once come above freezing.

And even if you do need to use additives in an extreme situation, what's wrong with slipping in 4oz of cetane boost once or twice a month?

As for glow plugs, I don't "use" them any more than you "use" your spark plugs. They do their job automatically. Every once in awhile on a very cold morning you have to wait 10 seconds for them to warm up.

And I’ve been keeping an eye out for gas stations that carry diesel around here. By my count 1 in every 4 or 5 carries it. You can find it if necessary but you have to look for it which is again a PITA. When I found out about this I immediately scratched VW off my list which is a shame since the VW beetle convertible is quite nice.

1 in 3 is the stat I've seen, US average. They're pumps at every interstate rest stop. Anyway, it's not a problem because the range of the vehicle allows you ample time to find a station carrying diesel. After the fuel light comes on, you have about 75-100 miles to find more.

The Beetle 'vert is not offered with a diesel engine anyway.

[pseudobrit]

He drives on the highway, and in the fields (dirty mostly, bumpy) too. I think the prius is cool, but it looks ugly.

I would take a good look at a VW TDI. My car did 800 miles on one tank of diesel fuel last week. And it's no tincan lightweight hybrid like the Insight. I wish I'd have taken pics of my Golf caked in mud last month.

I went nearly all the way through Pennsylvania, through New York State, into Canada, through Ontario up to Montréal, around Montréal for two days, back out of Quebec, through Ontario, across the border and a few miles into New York again before the fuel light came on.

The TDI is the ultimate highway machine. No comparably sized and equipped hybrid can match it on the highway. I'll concede the city to the Prius.

[jelloshotsrule]

the problem with the tdis is the horribly bad exhaust... cleaner than trucks of course, but that stuff is not good for you. and biodiesel is still tough to find... especially in more than like 5-20%...

[chewbaccapits]

The 2004 Prius has some type of A/C that operates without the engine running.

As for driving under 30mph = battery only, have you tried this? I won a two week trial of a 2002 Prius in a contest once. I tried to drive around without the engine running, and I was lucky to get above 12mph before the engine started. I was hoping that they would improve upon that, and if your correct that is one hell of an improvement! I can start (Stealth mode) it around 45-35 mph.....hard to maintain though when a Hummer threathens to run me over so that he can stop first on the next light...
:confused: :o :rolleyes:

[windowsblowsass]

Personally I'd get a VW with the TDI... gets near the same MPG as the hybrids, but its a diesel so its proven technology.. has 100hp on the new models too. Diesels tend to last longer than even regular gasoline engines, and I think service would be cheaper than a hybrid as well.
actually if ur a hippie diesels are good to they can run on many fuels such as vegtebal oils but id rather have a giant fng truck that got 15mpg than a hybrid

[windowsblowsass]

Forget Hydrogen. First and foremost its going to be a PITA to find a refill station for Hydrogen for at least 10 years. Secondly hybrids actually run cleaner then Hydrogen cars due to the fact that the Hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels right now. Est suggest that its going to be 30 years before Hydrogen is produced from clean sources. Right NOW hybrids release 90% fewer toxins then the average car. The Bush admin has done their damnedest to convince everyone that Hydrogen is where its at because it will take at least 5-10 years for that tech to take off. Consequently it expands the life of these gas cartels. If even a quarter of the people in America started driving hybrids tomorrow the gas industry would be screwed.
allright think about what you say do you really honestly think that bush is an evil bastard trying to give money to oil "cartels" by proposing an intelligent enviromentally sound sollution to use the most abundant element on the planet to power cars. oh and if its all bushes fault then why have all the major car companys been working on prototypes since the 90s honestly people do you just wake up smoke some crack and decide im gonna say some random slanderish dog ***** that has no evidence to back it up and is only relevant in my dilusional mind :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ibookin']

actually if ur a hippie diesels are good to they can run on many fuels such as vegtebal oils but id rather have a giant fng truck that got 15mpg than a hybrid

Yeah. Good for you.

I think the Prius has the currently available ones beat. The styling of the Civic Hybrid is nicer, but the Prius has more features. No one who would even consider transporting more than 2 people should look at the Insight.

My dad looked at the Prius when shopping for a car recently (decided that he didn't want to pay for comprehensive insurance while I'm a new driver). Yes, we think it's a weird-looking car, but you get used to the looks. I say if you're in the market for a hybrid, go with the Prius.

Or you could just wait for the Lexus. :D

[pseudobrit]

the problem with the tdis is the horribly bad exhaust... cleaner than trucks of course, but that stuff is not good for you. and biodiesel is still tough to find... especially in more than like 5-20%...

That's okay, I almost never have to smell my own exhaust. ;)

TDI exhaust contains much less CO2 than gas burners. It does contain more soot than gas burners and a little more NOx, but it's not the motor, it's the dirty fuel itself. If the US would require stricter fuel quality and enforce it, it would be much cleaner. But the trucking industry wants their rotgut garbage truck fuel dirt cheap and that means dirty fuel.

Biodiesel is great, but the gov't killed the subsidies that had jumpstarted the industry and now it's in limbo.

[iJon]

i mean so what if they can't go 0-60 in under 6 seconds...who does that anyway? might as well save even more money from speeding tickets.

i do and its so much fun. yes possibly pointless but its still fun to drive fast on the back roads and be able to gun it when the times comes.

iJon

[Sun Baked]

That's okay, I almost never have to smell my own exhaust. ;)

TDI exhaust contains much less CO2 than gas burners. It does contain more soot than gas burners and a little more NOx, but it's not the motor, it's the dirty fuel itself. If the US would require stricter fuel quality and enforce it, it would be much cleaner. But the trucking industry wants their rotgut garbage truck fuel dirt cheap and that means dirty fuel.

Biodiesel is great, but the gov't killed the subsidies that had jumpstarted the industry and now it's in limbo.The high sulfur in our "low sulfur" diesel fuel poisons the NOx scrubbers quite quickly.

So until they finally start shipping the ultra low sulfer diesel (ULSD) it'll be hard for anyone to pass the crazy CARB standards that CA wants to see.

But for the first time in quite awhile there is a big proponent of diesel vehicle high up in the EPA, who would like to see more diesels on the US road -- since they can cut oil use by 20%.

So as pseudobrit said, it's not the vehicles are dirty -- it's the crappy fuel.

[Thanatoast]

No. It can also be produced through electrolysis of water. Hydrogen has the potential to be zero emmisions.
Yes, but electrolysis of water requires electricity. It doesn't happen spontaneously, you know. And where is this electricity to elecrolyze the water coming from? Nuclear, gas and coal burning power plants, ones that pollute more in producing the hydrogen than the gasoline powered cars the hydrogen is supposed to replace.

"Est suggest that its going to be 30 years before Hydrogen is produced from clean sources."
No. It is happening right now.
No, until America moves to clean electricity generation like wind, tidal and solar, it will be produced with electricity generated the old fashioned way.

"The Bush admin has done their damnedest to convince everyone that Hydrogen is where its at because it will take at least 5-10 years for that tech to take off. Consequently it expands the life of these gas cartels." Whatever. The reason that Bush is pushing Hydrogen is because it would take us off gas completely; where a hybrid still uses gas. I remember in school and chem. professors taging the Republicans for not doing anything with Hydrogen. Now they do and some how someone stills says that they are only doing this for the gas cartels. This is the kind of dribble that angers me.
Bush sees hydrogen as a boondoggle that wil keep the gas industry safe for a decade at least. If people started driving hybrids instead of these hydrogen powered cars that may come in a decade, demand for gas would drop and prices would plummet and Bush would have some upset campaign contributers. It's not dribble, it's called looking past the obvious.

There's nothing wrong with switching to hydrogen, but hybrids are here now and should definitely be adopted.