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kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 05:57 AM
I have a 2004 iBook G4. My internal HD broke yesterday, but I have a backup on an external firewire HD enclosure, made using CCC. I've tried to boot from it using the startup disk tool on the install DVD: it comes up as a useable startup disk, but when it restarts I get the blinking folder icon for a few seconds, and then it boots from the internal HD (or tries to.)
Disk utility says it is bootable, I can mount it and edit files using single user mode from the internal HD, etcetc, but it just won't boot from it. :(
I've even tried to go into Open Firmware and boot yaboot from the external drive, but it doesn't seem to see the drive at all until after OS X is booted.

What's going wrong?

Any help would be appreciated.



dubhe
Feb 17, 2009, 06:09 AM
hold down Option when booting to allow boot drive selection.

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 06:09 AM
hold down Option when booting to allow boot drive selection.

It doesn't show up on the menu :(

dubhe
Feb 17, 2009, 06:13 AM
Do you have another drive or enclosure to prove they work? Or another computer to plug it into?

Or you could try putting the drive in your iBook.

Or it might not be the Hard Drive...

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 06:17 AM
I've got my PowerMac G4 here, I'll try booting off the ext. HD using that?

I can't put the ext. HD in the iBook (although I originally bought it for this purpose.) The screws are insanely tight, and even though I have the right tools I can't undo them. :(

dubhe
Feb 17, 2009, 06:29 AM
I've got my PowerMac G4 here, I'll try booting off the ext. HD using that?

I can't put the ext. HD in the iBook (although I originally bought it for this purpose.) The screws are insanely tight, and even though I have the right tools I can't undo them. :(

I had the same tool problem with my PowerBook G4 when I changed the drive. I found using a really pointy watchmaker phillips and a gentle tap with a hammer to get it to grip, then push down with lots of force whilst unscrewing.

FireArse
Feb 17, 2009, 06:32 AM
OK, try this.

Reset the PMU on the iBook. pull the battery out & remove the power supply unit. Then press+hold the on/off button for 15 seconds.

Reconnect & try again.

F

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 06:49 AM
Thanks for all the help so far.

The PowerMac G4 (Sawtooth, 2001ish?) DOES boot from the ext. HD, while the iBook CANNOT.
What the hell?

I just tried resetting the PMU also, and it still doesn't show up on the option-boot/startup disk menu.

dubhe
Feb 17, 2009, 06:51 AM
What actually happened, how do you know it is the HDD?

FireArse
Feb 17, 2009, 06:58 AM
Put the Sawtooth in FW disk mode, and try connect that to the iBook - see if the HDD belonging to the Sawtooth shows up.

F

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 06:59 AM
What actually happened, how do you know it is the HDD?

Was playing around with toy magnets.. we won't go there ;)

Lots of clicking and scraping-metal sound effects. God, I'm such a retard!

FireArse
Feb 17, 2009, 07:05 AM
ah ha. Your screwed internal HDD may flood the IDE channel with crap, therefore stopping any booting at all. I've seen this a number of times. You may need to removed the internal drive to get it to boot from any interface.

F

dubhe
Feb 17, 2009, 07:16 AM
Best you get unscrewing :p

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 07:44 AM
ah ha. Your screwed internal HDD may flood the IDE channel with crap, therefore stopping any booting at all. I've seen this a number of times. You may need to removed the internal drive to get it to boot from any interface.

F

It boots fine from the CD drive, and the internal HD.. it just doesn't see the FW drive.
The internal drive isn't completely screwed, it just gets stuck when reading/writing some bits. (It can boot into single-user mode okay, but when you logout of it it gets stuck loading something.)
So I don't think that is the issue.
Surely Open Firmware would still see it even if the int. HD was ****ing up?

Also, I just tried putting my PowerMac on target mode and plugging it into the iBook: the disk shows up in disk utility on the install DVD, but I can't boot from it using the option-boot menu or whatever.

sickmacdoc
Feb 17, 2009, 07:59 AM
Did you by chance format the drive before backing up to it and forget to give it the right Partion Table Map? To boot from the drive successfully on your type of Mac, it needs to be formatted using an Apple Partition Map (APM) partition scheme.

If you did not change it as part of the formatting, it is probably set to either "GUID" (for Intel Macs) or even "MBR" for PCs. You iBook (being PowerPC processor based) will NOT boot from either of those 2 partition schemes. Oh, and because it is not viewed as a valid bootable disk, it will not show up in the "Option" key startup listing either.

If you can see the disk in Disk Utility, click the whole drive once in the left column (not the named partition- the line that list the whole drive) and look at the info at the bottom of the page-- it will tell you what Partition Map Scheme is established on the drive. See below, but note that where my example says GUID, yours will need to say Apple Partition Map to work as a boot drive. If the partition map is the problem, the drive must be erased to re-establish the correct type- just ask if you need a little guide to changing it.

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 08:06 AM
Did you by chance format the drive before backing up to it and forget to give it the right Partion Table Map? To boot from the drive successfully on your type of Mac, it needs to be formatted using an Apple Partition Map (APM) partition scheme.

If you did not change it as part of the formatting, it is probably set to either "GUID" (for Intel Macs) or even "MBR" for PCs. You iBook (being PowerPC processor based) will NOT boot from either of those 2 partition schemes. Oh, and because it is not viewed as a valid bootable disk, it will not show up in the "Option" key startup listing either.

If you can see the disk in Disk Utility, click the whole drive once in the left column (not the named partition- the line that list the whole drive) and look at the info at the bottom of the page-- it will tell you what Partition Map Scheme is established on the drive. See below, but note that where my example says GUID, yours will need to say Apple Partition Map to work as a boot drive. If the partition map is the problem, the drive must be erased to re-establish the correct type- just ask if you need a little guide to changing it.

Right, according to Disk Utility, it is an "Apple_HFS" partition scheme. Should it be something else?

I'm not sure why my iBook will NOT boot off it (even when Disk Utility says it is bootable) while my PowerMac WILL. :S

Cave Man
Feb 17, 2009, 08:33 AM
Did you by chance format the drive before backing up to it and forget to give it the right Partion Table Map? To boot from the drive successfully on your type of Mac, it needs to be formatted using an Apple Partition Map (APM) partition scheme.

He indicated that his Power Mac can boot from it, so it should have an APM. Something else is going on here. Bad FW port or bad enclosure controller are two suspects.

FireArse
Feb 17, 2009, 09:44 AM
He indicated that his Power Mac can boot from it, so it should have an APM. Something else is going on here. Bad FW port or bad enclosure controller are two suspects.

This can be confirmed to the Bad FW port if the OP was successfully able to boot from the Sawtooth HDD. If the above isn't the case, his FW port / interface from the MLB to the physical port is F*cked.

F

sickmacdoc
Feb 17, 2009, 01:44 PM
He indicated that his Power Mac can boot from it, so it should have an APM. Something else is going on here. Bad FW port or bad enclosure controller are two suspects.

You are right- whoops. :o I crossed up the "will boot/will not boot" references in the thread.

Well, since it will boot on the PowerMac (thus eliminating the enclosure's FW as the cause) and assuming the same FW cable is being used, I would certainly think by the process of elimination that it is the FW port itself.

As FireArse has suggested a couple of times in the thread, if the OP would connect the Sawtooth using the same FW cable and then tries TDM with no success, that would be a confirmation of the port's failure I would say.

kick52
Feb 17, 2009, 05:28 PM
It can't be the port -- booting from the OS X DVD, you can see the external drive in disk utility, and in single user mode (booting from HD) you can see it and mount it FINE.

It just doesn't seem to be able to see it BEFORE loading an OS.. or something.
:S

So confuzzling.

As FireArse has suggested a couple of times in the thread, if the OP would connect the Sawtooth using the same FW cable and then tries TDM with no success, that would be a confirmation of the port's failure I would say.

I did so and stated earlier :)

"Also, I just tried putting my PowerMac on target mode and plugging it into the iBook: the disk shows up in disk utility on the install DVD, but I can't boot from it using the option-boot menu or whatever."

kick52
Feb 18, 2009, 04:07 AM
UPDATE: It seems that the PL3507 chipset is causing problems. After research, there ARE firmware updates that fix this, though it won't ****ing work on my vista laptop for some reason, so I need to get access to an XP machine I guess :/ Ugh, so many complications.