17" MacBook Pro Disassembly, RAM, HD and Battery Access

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/17/17-macbook-pro-disassembly-ram-hd-and-battery-access/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/02/17/145327-Gf2GPJlfKvbLJLDZ_425.jpg

iFixIt has posted (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/MacBook-Pro-17-Inch-Unibody/618/1) disassembly photos of the new 17" unibody MacBook Pro that has started arriving in customers hands. The 17" MacBook Pro was announced (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/06/apple-releases-aluminum-unibody-17-macbook-pro/) at Macworld San Francisco and incorporates Apple's new unibody design but with a non-removable battery.

Due to this design change, access to the internal components now requires the use of a screwdriver. iFixIt's photos show how to access the RAM and Hard Drive of the new machine. Apple also provides instructions on the process in their 17" MacBook Pro Manual (PDF) (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_Pro_17inch_Early2009.pdf). Both RAM and Hard Drive are considered user-serviceable items, while the battery is not.

Other Notes from iFixit (http://www.ifixit.com/):

- Apple's using wide, thin black rubber bumpers on the Unibody Pros, a departure from the small stubby bumpers on the Aluminum revisions.
- There are ten Phillips screws around the perimeter of the lower case to remove.
- It's only a matter of time until you'll be able to buy this battery online from companies like [iFixit].
- The battery weighs 20.1 ounces (1.25 pounds or 570 grams). That's 20% of the computer's weight!

Apple's official battery replacement (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/07/macbook-pro-17-battery-replacement-179-and-other-notes/) for the 17" MacBook Pro costs $179.

Article Link: 17" MacBook Pro Disassembly, RAM, HD and Battery Access (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/17/17-macbook-pro-disassembly-ram-hd-and-battery-access/)

[plumbingandtech]

that battery kinda looks like a good waffle from a good waffle iron.
:apple::)

[Eidorian]

Due to this design change, access to the internal components now requires the use of a screwdriver. Think of the children!

Is that a delicious warranty voiding sticker on the battery too?

[alexbates]

Wow, that looks like a huge battery.

I wish I had one of those. I could use a 8 hour battery.

[MeatPie]

So you can crack it open and replace the RAM and HD, but you can't touch the battery? seems weird to me

[BenRoethig]

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to the 13/15-inch machines going this direction with the next revision. You need to take the back off to get to the RAM anyway, and the removal of that latch may make it possible for the 13" machine to regain firewire in addition to better battery life.

[darwinian]

If ever there were a 17" laptop I wanted ... impressive design. PS any word on the battery weight?

[alexbates]

So you can crack it open and replace the RAM and HD, but you can't touch the battery? seems weird to me

You can still replace the battery. Its just not as easy as it has been for years as all Apple laptops have had removable battery's. I like the design though because there is not as much wasted space.

[dr. shdw]

If ever there were a 17" laptop I wanted ... impressive design. PS any word on the battery weight?

20% of 6.5lbs..

[alexbates]

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to the 13/15-inch machines going this direction with the next revision. You need to take the back off to get to the RAM anyway, and the removal of that latch may make it possible for the 13" machine to regain firewire in addition to better battery life.

I wish Apple would have done this in the first place when they came out with the new 13-in's and 15-in's. It makes much more sense and the new laptops could possibly be even thinner. I doubt we will see this for another 3 years though.

[Small White Car]

Whoa. What d'ya know.

It looks like a computer inside! :eek:

[nagromme]

Awesome, first post?

What are you referring to with regards to the rubber bumpers? Do you mean something internal or the 'feet'?

They just mean the feet. Same big round ones as the Air and other unibody MacBooks.

[MeatPie]

You can still replace the battery. Its just not as easy as it has been for years as all Apple laptops have had removable battery's. I like the design though because there is not as much wasted space.

Yeah I know you can, I just find it weird that they don't consider a user-serviceable replacement. If someone is capable enough to replace RAM and an HD, then a battery should be a non-issue.

[foodle]

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to the 13/15-inch machines going this direction with the next revision. You need to take the back off to get to the RAM anyway, and the removal of that latch may make it possible for the 13" machine to regain firewire in addition to better battery life.
As someone who just had to switch batteries mid-flight on a 13" Macbook, I would be against the other models going this way. With a battery lasting ~4 hours, the machine will not last a cross country (that country being the US) flight. It gets even worse if you're taking an overseas flight. Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...

[Jayomat]

I was already wondering how long it takes for you (arn) to dig that out ;)

[gonnabuyamac]

As someone who just had to switch batteries mid-flight on a 13" Macbook, I would be against the other models going this way. With a battery lasting ~4 hours, the machine will not last a cross country (that country being the US) flight. It gets even worse if you're taking an overseas flight. Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...

I think they're talking about using one of the new batteries that get 8ish hours of battery life like the new 17"ers.

[newyorkguy]

big fans for hovering over my desk. Turbinesound incl.

[mondesi43]

Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...


And I doubt you'd be able to get that screwdriver on the plane. If you did get it on the plane and I was sitting close to you, you're asking for a punch in the face without any questions. Nothing against you, just the screwdriver.....

[jbrenn]

As someone who just had to switch batteries mid-flight on a 13" Macbook, I would be against the other models going this way. With a battery lasting ~4 hours, the machine will not last a cross country (that country being the US) flight. It gets even worse if you're taking an overseas flight. Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...

just get an airline adapter

[detz]

Think of the children!

Is that a delicious warranty voiding sticker on the battery too?

It appears that way but if you look at the second page they take the battery out and that is still attached.

http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/Gf2GPJlfKvbLJLDZ.large

[smallthintiny]

thats pretty neat

[Eidorian]

It appears that way but if you look at the second page they take the battery out and that is still attached.Yeah that is a bit strange. Not to mention there isn't any mention of the warranty on it either.

[ChrisA]

So you can crack it open and replace the RAM and HD, but you can't touch the battery? seems weird to me

I think battery replacement will require soldering. While simple for many, soldering is something most consumers would be unable to do themselves. I don't blame Apple for not using a connector, high power connectors are a bulky failure point that would only be unplugged once every few years at most.

[jmpmntwnty3]

Yeah I'm definitely getting this as soon as humanly and physically possible. I gotta get it before May '09 though so I can use my student discount haha

[CrackedButter]

I'm more likely to buy it, now we know for certain the components are upgradeable. Just needs to have 2 FW800 ports, and quad core, and I'm set!:p

[ChrisA]

just get an airline adapter

Yes, when you are in a vehicle (car, plane, boat,...) there is power available. For those times when there is no power available you CAN still take a spare battery with you. Just cable the battery to the power port. This is actually better because you can select whatever size/shape spare battery you like. Anything from a case filled with AA size cells to something like this: http://store.cseoffroad.com/d34m.html

I do not see the point of swapping out a batery, you still have the used battery to carry. Why not bring a spare battery and a small cord?

I'm sure some one will sell a flat battery that is the same shape as the bottm on the 17" notebook and you just stack the notebook on top

[h.21]

If ever there were a 17" laptop I wanted ... impressive design. PS any word on the battery weight?

any word on if you read the article? Oh, it appears as if that word has just come in! The word is NO, THAT YOU DID NOT READ THE ARTICLE.

MASSIVE FAIL.

[xDYLANx]

All I can say is...wow. I really wish I could have an 8 hour battery. I get maybe 2 now, and I hate it. I've been awake for about 20 minutes now and it's already down to 86% from a full charge.

Still though, I really do not like having notebooks bigger than 13".


Give the new MB's a non replaceable battery, and I will be on that like flies on pie.

[abrooks]

I think battery replacement will require soldering..

Read the iFixit article, no mention of soldering.

[Digital Skunk]

Sweet. Come two years from now, when I need an update to my workhorse and Apple finally goes quad core, I know I can at least take out the optical drive and replace it with another HDD without having to tear my machine apart.

[dacreativeguy]

Read the iFixit article, no mention of soldering.

You can see the battery connector cable in the right hand in the pic. No solder.

[JohnnyLemonhead]

ewww I wish they would get a different hand model. (preferably one with less body hair than Robin Williams)

[detz]

It has to be a money thing, why else would they require an Apple tech to replace it? Maybe an environment thing since 99% of the people would just throw the battery out after they replaced it,they probably recycle it.

[polaris20]

I wonder why no one has come out with an external battery that attaches to the MagSafe connector? Seems like it'd be a no-brainer of an accessory.

[foodle]

just get an airline adapter
Not every seat has a power port. In fact there are airlines (US Air, I'm looking at you) that have power ports installed, but have turned them all off. And I do carry an airline adapter cord, but often can't use it.

[funkyp56]

I wonder why no one has come out with an external battery that attaches to the MagSafe connector? Seems like it'd be a no-brainer of an accessory.

Im not sure if they can, I have never seen a 3rd party power adaptor.

[TheCheapGeek]

There are no batteries with magsafe adapters because apple has not licensed the magsafe connector to third parties.

[Digital Skunk]

There are no batteries with magsafe adapters because apple has not licensed the magsafe connector to third parties.

There are a few.... that is, I have seen one. But it's VERY expensive since the company basically had to BUY an Apple Power adaptor and splice off the Magsafe portion and attach it to their battery pack.

linkie (http://www.batterygeek.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=78)

[foodle]

Yes, when you are in a vehicle (car, plane, boat,...) there is power available. For those times when there is no power available you CAN still take a spare battery with you. Just cable the battery to the power port. This is actually better because you can select whatever size/shape spare battery you like. Anything from a case filled with AA size cells to something like this: http://store.cseoffroad.com/d34m.html

Picture from above site:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-35554245108358_2041_9887314
I would love to see what the TSA would have to say if I tried to carry that on-board.

One issue with an external battery pack is the extra cords/charger etc necessary for the battery pack. Right now, I can carry an extra Macbook battery and swap it out in a few second.

Also, there is the problem of cost. An extra Macbook battery is $130. The Battery Geeks Portable Power Station (http://www.batterygeek.net/Portable-Power-Station-p/pps_batterygeek.htm) is $350. That's a pretty significant difference for the same additional runtime.

Finally, since Apple will not license the MagSafe connector to other companies, 3rd party MagSafe compatible connectors are sometimes problematic. Battery Geeks seems to have solved their problem, see this link for more info than you ever wanted about the issue: http://www.atpm.com/13.08/magsafe.shtml

[ivladster]

As someone who just had to switch batteries mid-flight on a 13" Macbook, I would be against the other models going this way. With a battery lasting ~4 hours, the machine will not last a cross country (that country being the US) flight. It gets even worse if you're taking an overseas flight. Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...

OK call me crazy but who the hell uses notebook during the ENTIRE flight? I can't barely stay focused or awake for an hour. I tried it before and I just can't use my computer more than an hour. If people so picky and cant watch flight movies then bring your iPhone. =)

[jav6454]

just get an airline adapter

I use a airline adapter. Cheaper than an extra battery and keeps my battery charged at a fixed level(although it doesn't charge it).

With that your MacBook lasts what the flight lasts;)

Although, I would never mind having a built in battery if it can give me 6+ hours.

[butterfly0fdoom]

As someone who just had to switch batteries mid-flight on a 13" Macbook, I would be against the other models going this way. With a battery lasting ~4 hours, the machine will not last a cross country (that country being the US) flight. It gets even worse if you're taking an overseas flight. Having to bust out a screwdriver on my tray table would not be ideal...

Well, if they designed the screws to stay in the lid instead of falling out and hinged one side of it to reduce the amount of screws needed, it'd make it a bit more practical. THe battery could last up to 5 hours instead, too.

[hiptobesquare]

What are the warranty implications of this?

If I order 50-60 of these per year, in just under 3 years, when my users have cycled these things hard, and they need to be replaced, will I need to have them down-time their machines to replace the batteries?

What if I need to swap hard drives, or RAM, for failure testing, or emergency backup?

Will those sorts of activities, which I can do on any PC laptop available, without voiding the warranties, will AppleCare hold?

I was skeptical about this before. I am still skeptical on a policy standpoint, regardless of how direct the physical action may be.

Captive screws are a nice touch. I see current 17"s with missing assembly screws fairly often, both from the side periphery, and the long screws from the bottom of the case, near the screen hinge. once they get loose, unless they are monitored and re-tightened, which most users don't notice, it is a matter of time until fan or HDD vibrations spin them loose, even with a dab of loctite.

[Digital Skunk]

OK call me crazy but who the hell uses notebook during the ENTIRE flight? I can't barely stay focused or awake for an hour. I tried it before and I just can't use my computer more than an hour. If people so picky and cant watch flight movies then bring your iPhone. =)

Well, I for one use my computer for things other than just dicking around. So I stay on it for hours at a time.

More than 8 hours, sure! I doubt the new 17" MBP may not even get to 8 hours when running Aperture and Photoshop, let along three apps in the Final Cut Suite.

I use a airline adapter. Cheaper than an extra battery and keeps my battery charged at a fixed level(although it doesn't charge it).

With that your MacBook lasts what the flight lasts;)

Not all flights have power for your laptop.

[GGGUUUYYY]

I'd rather have a mac pro for with the MBP costing $ 100.00 more CDN.

[G5isAlive]

OK call me crazy but who the hell uses notebook during the ENTIRE flight? I can't barely stay focused or awake for an hour. I tried it before and I just can't use my computer more than an hour. If people so picky and cant watch flight movies then bring your iPhone. =)

Ok, you are crazy. {smiles}. I have swapped out my battery on numerous overseas flights. Sometimes its work. Sometimes its movies. Why shouldn't the choice be mine? All these people suggesting those of us swap batteries should modify our behavior to fit Apple are sorta missing the point IMHO.

[ayeying]

I dunno if anyone mentioned this yet but the CPU on the 2.66GHz model is T9550. It is a 35 watt processor same as the 2.93GHz which houses a T9800 processor.

[detz]

Ok, you are crazy. {smiles}. I have swapped out my battery on numerous overseas flights. Sometimes its work. Sometimes its movies. Why shouldn't the choice be mine? All these people suggesting those of us swap batteries should modify our behavior to fit Apple are sorta missing the point IMHO.

And why should the majority of their customer base suffer with a heavy and thicker model and less capacity because a small fraction of the users have to swap batteries? I've owend laptops all my life and I've never had a need to swap a battery and I'm guessing that a large portion of their customer base is this way.

[Digital Skunk]

And why should the majority of their customer base suffer with a heavy and thicker model and less capacity because a small fraction of the users have to swap batteries? I've owend laptops all my life and I've never had a need to swap a battery and I'm guessing that a large portion of their customer base is this way.

Why should those of us that need power sacrifice on quad core and dual HDDs for those that cry about thicker and heavier machines? Why don't they just get a 15" MBP instead?

Why should the majority of users buying the 17" as a desktop replacement be limited to only getting a 15" MBP with a 17" screen?

Why couldn't Apple just make the 17" MBP heavier (since a lot of people whine about it's 6 lbs weight anyway) and give professional users the best of both worlds.

[Jayomat]

Apple rules, you follow :rolleyes: Offering a more diversified (does this word exist? :D ) product lineup may lead to higher production costs. that is not in apple's interest as a high profit company. apple is about to make money, and as long as people complain AFTER they bought their products, there is hardly a need to change anything...

[CrackedButter]

Why should those of us that need power sacrifice on quad core and dual HDDs for those that cry about thicker and heavier machines? Why don't they just get a 15" MBP instead?

Why should the majority of users buying the 17" as a desktop replacement be limited to only getting a 15" MBP with a 17" screen?

Why couldn't Apple just make the 17" MBP heavier (since a lot of people whine about it's 6 lbs weight anyway) and give professional users the best of both worlds.

If Apple really thought differently, they would do a skinny and a heavy version of the 17" MBP and see which sells. They wouldn't be bankrupting the company in doing so.

[alphaod]

If someone is capable enough to replace RAM and an HD, then a battery should be a non-issue.

I think that it's more of a "you don't change battery on an airplane" or something like that.

[G5isAlive]

And why should the majority of their customer base suffer with a heavy and thicker model and less capacity because a small fraction of the users have to swap batteries? I've owend laptops all my life and I've never had a need to swap a battery and I'm guessing that a large portion of their customer base is this way.

Since when has Apple been about the majority? My opinion stands that there is a legitimate issue here and to say all people who swap batteries are silly is well.. silly. I admit the longer battery life of the new design reduces my concerns but does not eliminate.

[twoodcc]

wow, that was quick. they got that up in a hurry. glad they did though. i really like ifixit. i use their instructions quite often.

[Digital Skunk]

Apple rules, you follow :rolleyes: Offering a more diversified (does this word exist? :D ) product lineup may lead to higher production costs. that is not in apple's interest as a high profit company. apple is about to make money, and as long as people complain AFTER they bought their products, there is hardly a need to change anything...

For Apple, diversified DOES NOT exist. You'd think they'd at least give us more options on the desktop front, and it wouldn't be hard to make a Mac Pro that uses average desktop quad core chips.

If Apple really thought differently, they would do a skinny and a heavy version of the 17" MBP and see which sells. They wouldn't be bankrupting the company in doing so.

This would be my only wish. They could call the current 17" the 17" Macbook and make a real Pro 17" computer with quad core chips and some functions that you find in the competition that is currently blowing Apple away..... like removable batteries and such.

I'd like to have a notebook that isn't just touted for it's design and thinness.

[SimonTheSoundMa]

Nice to know after 2-3 years of torture with poorly designed internal configurations, Apple is going back to simple, even user serviceable parts.

Let's hope the iMac follows suit and goes back to elegant designs like the original iMac G5s (after the iMac G5 with iSight and Intel machines they went awful).

Or could this be a 17 inch MBP one off?

[foodle]

OK call me crazy but who the hell uses notebook during the ENTIRE flight? I can't barely stay focused or awake for an hour. I tried it before and I just can't use my computer more than an hour. If people so picky and cant watch flight movies then bring your iPhone. =)
Well call me crazy, but I was flying back home from a conference and needed to work on a $10M grant proposal due two days later. Oh yeah, and I needed to prep lecture for the next day as well. Apologies if that does not pass your personal criteria for necessary laptop usage :rolleyes:

[detz]

Again, Apple isn't going to change it for 5% of the market, if you don't like it go to another hardware manufacture and you will be replaced by the next generation that wants the sleeker, lighter and longer lasting batteries. The new 17" is exactly what I want, it's 17" screen, it's light and small, has a long lasting battery and it's powerful enough for everything I need. If you guys want a changeable battery maybe you should get the 15"?

[foodle]

Well, I for one use my computer for things other than just dicking around. So I stay on it for hours at a time.
Amen.

Believe it or not there are people who actually do work :eek: on the plane, not just watch old episodes of Dexter like the people across from me.

[Digital Skunk]

Again, Apple isn't going to change it for 5% of the market, if you don't like it go to another hardware manufacture and you will be replaced by the next generation that wants the sleeker, lighter and longer lasting batteries. The new 17" is exactly what I want, it's 17" screen, it's light and small, has a long lasting battery and it's powerful enough for everything I need. If you guys want a changeable battery maybe you should get the 15"?

Right..... a 15" Macbook Pro with a 17" screen.

I won't move over to the PC or hackintoshes just yet, so in the meantime many will have to hear me b!t*h about Apple's poor technology decisions, and their user bases poor insight in how machines can be used.

[detz]

Right..... a 15" Macbook Pro with a 17" screen.

I won't move over to the PC or hackintoshes just yet, so in the meantime many will have to hear me b!t*h about Apple's poor technology decisions, and their user bases poor insight in how machines can be used.

Again, it's poor to you but not to me or anyone I know. So, was it a poor decision if it's going to make them more money? I think not.

[bmk]

Well call me crazy, but I was flying back home from a conference and needed to work on a $10M grant proposal due two days later. Oh yeah, and I needed to prep lecture for the next day as well. Apologies if that does not pass your personal criteria for necessary laptop usage

The fact that you've got to try and complete a 10 million dollar proposal in 2 days doesn't sound like a reason for long life batteries on a plane, but for a more realistic assumption about your work schedules and capabilities. Either the proposal can be done properly in the time it needs to take, or you are cutting corners just to get the bloody thing finished on time, which surely is not very professional?

And no, the fact that a project costs 10 million does not pass my 'necessary' criteria - there are more important things than money (believe it or not).

[Jayomat]

Again, Apple isn't going to change it for 5% of the market, if you don't like it go to another hardware manufacture and you will be replaced by the next generation that wants the sleeker, lighter and longer lasting batteries. The new 17" is exactly what I want, it's 17" screen, it's light and small, has a long lasting battery and it's powerful enough for everything I need. If you guys want a changeable battery maybe you should get the 15"?

Maybe they don't change a product for 5% of the market, BUT apple could have a godlike image upon the non-fanboys if they'd care more about the customer, give more options on hardware and so on.

I think "Digital Skunk" ist right.
The 17"MBP ist not a "pro" machine (hardware wise), it's just a bigger macbook with "new batterie technologie" (that will come to the other macs sooner or later) and better graphics. ah and a bigger screen...of course the screen/battery ist fine, but the power is not pro at all..

The image of a company really matters, and apple is negcleting the customer's opinion. Apple could end up like MS if their products weren't that shiny and "adoreable" because of looks and status-promising: hate their attitude and whatever you dislike, and in the end, all their products.

// offtopic
Its not like apple is the only way to go. it will be a really tough decision for me wether i should stick with mac or switch back to MS. when i bought my macbook in 2007, it was based on the fact that i didn't want VISTA. i think in 1-2 years windows will be attractive again. i'll keep in touch...

More than once i got the feeling that apple laughs about their own customers. they drop little (but nice) features and they're getting praised as unbelieveable genius whereas MS made real progress and is considered to be crap all the way. (Im talking about OSX, not iphones or ipods)

I mean, they state:"WE do it better than MS in every aspect. You must be a fool to use an MS product"... and this is something i cannot accept. its so arrogant, and people still don't see it.

No discussion, i love OSX and the macbook as a whole (for example), but i got the feeling that apple doesn't need/want my opinion on their products. And as a free-thinker, that's no image i like to be connected with...

just my two cents..:rolleyes: (sry for the bad gramma)

[Digital Skunk]

Again, it's poor to you but not to me or anyone I know. So, was it a poor decision if it's going to make them more money? I think not.

Sadly this is true, and I can't argue with Apple's desire to make money.

The fact that you've got to try and complete a 10 million dollar proposal in 2 days doesn't sound like a reason for long life batteries on a plane, but for a more realistic assumption about your work schedules and capabilities. Either the proposal can be done properly in the time it needs to take, or you are cutting corners just to get the bloody thing finished on time, which surely is not very professional?

And no, the fact that a project costs 10 million does not pass my 'necessary' criteria - there are more important things than money (believe it or not).

Mmmm, I don't think so. Some times it's touch and go, even for well planned projects and proposals.

Not to mention last minute changes that could have you doing as the other poster did, or rendering footage on battery power as I do quite often.

[foodle]

The fact that you've got to try and complete a 10 million dollar proposal in 2 days doesn't sound like a reason for long life batteries on a plane, but for a more realistic assumption about your work schedules and capabilities. Either the proposal can be done properly in the time it needs to take, or you are cutting corners just to get the bloody thing finished on time, which surely is not very professional?
Not sure why this is starting to take a nasty tone, but I'm happy to follow suit :D

working on a proposal due 2 days hence != doing the proposal in 2 days

I'm sorry if you do not respect people who try to do as good of a job as possible in their endeavors and therefore try to make the best use of the available time.

And no, the fact that a project costs 10 million does not pass my 'necessary' criteria - there are more important things than money (believe it or not).
Uh, ok, there are more important things than money ... like maybe the biomedical research that could help us diagnose and cure disease that we are planning to use the money for?

But that might not pass muster on your stringent criteria either :(

[MAGICMOXTER]

Guys, lets stop arguing about the non removable battery pack, for the same price as a new battery you can get an external one, so i dont see the problem? its small, and convenient, just simply plugs in the normal magsafe, and it doesnt void the warranty using it :) So i guess its actually better than having a removable battery, plus it gives you a lot lot lot more life than the internal battery, so its better overall.

Edit: Plus it doesnt have to be inside the computer to charge. So its way better.

If Apple really thought differently, they would do a skinny and a heavy version of the 17" MBP and see which sells. They wouldn't be bankrupting the company in doing so.

Oh dear, someone hasnt studied business models and economics 101

Apple is a shareholder owned company people on this forum seem to forget this and dream they own it.

Well news flash......we dont!! The SOLE and ONLY purpose of the company is to make money for the shareholders, not to care for the environment, not to service the buyers needs, not to offer two different versions of the 17" its to MAKE HARD CASH $$$$ + ££££££ FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS

Thats Apples Legal obligation

[MichaelLatta]

I wonder why no one has come out with an external battery that attaches to the MagSafe connector? Seems like it'd be a no-brainer of an accessory.

Because Apple patented the connector and does not license it to anyone. Also reports are that the interaction between the adapter and the computer is not just constant power, but there are some smarts to the power supply.

[AidenShaw]

Because Apple patented the connector and does not license it to anyone. Also reports are that the interaction between the adapter and the computer is not just constant power, but there are some smarts to the power supply.

Yes, it's very common for the power brick to communicate with the laptop. Dells all do it - if you use an adapter that's too small it may run (but not charge), or even report that "the 45watt adapter is not compatible" and ignore it.

Even with just two wires ("+" and "-") a data channel can be superimposed on the DC.

[gkarris]

I think since we are at the point of not getting our PowerBook G5, how about a 17" MacBook Air???

:D

[Digital Skunk]

I think since we are at the point of not getting our PowerBook G5, how about a 17" MacBook Air???

:D

Ha!

A 17" Macbook Air is what that 95% of Apple users want to do their web surfing and p0rn watching with.

[detz]

Ha!

A 17" Macbook Air is what that 95% of Apple users want to do their web surfing and p0rn watching with.

Who watches porn on a 17" monitor, that's what the 52" HDTV is for. Duh. :rolleyes:

[gkarris]

Ha!

A 17" Macbook Air is what that 95% of Apple users want to do their web surfing and p0rn watching with.

Who watches porn on a 17" monitor, that's what the 52" HDTV is for. Duh. :rolleyes:

Size matters... :eek:

:D

[JohnnyLemonhead]

Because Apple patented the connector and does not license it to anyone. Also reports are that the interaction between the adapter and the computer is not just constant power, but there are some smarts to the power supply.

sounds like smoke and mirrors to me designed to discourage 2nd party adapter makers. it still won't stop the asian makers from making them and selling them for $10 on ebay like they do with the PowerBook/iBook ones.

[Bubba Satori]

I wish Apple would have done this in the first place when they came out with the new 13-in's and 15-in's. It makes much more sense and the new laptops could possibly be even thinner. I doubt we will see this for another 3 years though.

Thinner ? For heavens sake, will this madness never end ?

[AidenShaw]

Thinner ? For heavens sake, will this madness never end ?

...you know the sad answer to that question....

Maybe in the post-Jobs era, now that the CEO isn't thin as a rail, balance will arrivel.

[macshill]

Picture from above site:
http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-35554245108358_2041_9887314
I would love to see what the TSA would have to say if I tried to carry that on-board.[/URL]


lol Exactly.

[brainreset]

yeah, this one is not as hard as the powerbook, that was crazy design :confused:

[Ploki]

huh.
its a clunkier 15" with more battery power.
they could make it the same power and more easy replaceable.
but it wouldnt be unibody then.. :)

im very glad i never even thought of 17"...
i was expecting quadcore.

i mean, its nice thats its not too clunky but 2mm fatter with quadcore i bet nobody would mind.
besides, battery can take quadcore now. (almost 13000mAh :o )

[.Andy]

iFixit are awesome. IMO their disassembly pictures are guides are the best on the net. Always so interesting to have a sticky beak at innards. Used the guides many times over to replace ram, batteries, hard drives in my powerbooks.

Disclaimer as I'm sounding like an advert: I have no connection or financial interest in their website. Just a fan.

[sflocal]

Why should those of us that need power sacrifice on quad core and dual HDDs for those that cry about thicker and heavier machines? Why don't they just get a 15" MBP instead?

Why should the majority of users buying the 17" as a desktop replacement be limited to only getting a 15" MBP with a 17" screen?

Why couldn't Apple just make the 17" MBP heavier (since a lot of people whine about it's 6 lbs weight anyway) and give professional users the best of both worlds.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the point of a replaceable battery if the MBP would be used as a desktop replacement? Last time I checked, most desks usually have a power-receptacle somewhere underneath it located on the wall and approximately 12" from the floor. In that case, most users would never unplug it to use the battery anyways.

People requiring replaceable batteries represent a small minority of the user-base. It sucks but that is the truth. I'll take a longer-lasting fixed battery in a more sturdy unibody design any day. I have never had the need to purchase an additional battery for any of my laptops and all my colleagues as well are in the same position. By the time my battery finally dies, it's a few years down the road and I just pick up an up-to-date laptop. Besides, those that choose to purchase a replacement battery (not a spare) usually find that those batteries are no longer manufactured for whatever reason.

[cal6n]

Right..... a 15" Macbook Pro with a 17" screen.

I won't move over to the PC or hackintoshes just yet, so in the meantime many will have to hear me b!t*h about Apple's poor technology decisions, and their user bases poor insight in how machines can be used.

*snip*

I won't move over to the PC or hackintoshes just yet, so in the meantime anyone who doesn't place me under "ignore" will have to hear me b!t*h about my half-assed opinions.

There. Fixed that for you.

[AlexisV]

If more people knew what actually went into one of these machines they might be less moans about them being 'overpriced'.

That's one neat custom board.

[cal6n]

If more people knew what actually went into one of these machines they might be less moans about them being 'overpriced'.

That's one neat custom board.

Fantastic piece of production-line CNC work, too.

[Shivetya]

If more people knew what actually went into one of these machines they might be less moans about them being 'overpriced'.

That's one neat custom board.

They ARE overpriced. He showed us what goes into it. Again it mostly is a penalty for a fancy case... except we get to pay more to replace the battery now.

Justify the purchase to yourself anyway you want, just don't claim the whats inside justifies its price. Its laughable what they charge for it.

[CrackedButter]

Oh dear, someone hasnt studied business models and economics 101

Apple is a shareholder owned company people on this forum seem to forget this and dream they own it.

Well news flash......we dont!! The SOLE and ONLY purpose of the company is to make money for the shareholders, not to care for the environment, not to service the buyers needs, not to offer two different versions of the 17" its to MAKE HARD CASH $$$$ + ££££££ FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS

Thats Apples Legal obligation

Oh dear, somebody forgot that I am a customer and if they had done so, I'd be owning one of the new MBP's by now. Hence, Apple makes money and shareholders are happy.

Also what I am suggesting isn't something out of the ordinary, compared to the other fancyful ideas I've seen on this forum. My god 2 versions of a top of the line laptop, what would the shareholders think! I don't think the shareholders would mind, they do after all offer 2 versions of the 15" MBP and 3 versions of the 13"MB.

Lets not forget Apple don't do any market research, so how do they know what people want, and with the 4 types of laptops they have now, do you think they are catering sufficiently enough to the market?

Nice try.

[bobbleheadbob]

Help, I'm experiencing a classic case of MBPL (Macbook Pro Lust)! :eek: This looks like a very sweet machine. :D Too bad I don't need (and can't afford another one). :apple:

[alFR]

And I doubt you'd be able to get that screwdriver on the plane. If you did get it on the plane and I was sitting close to you, you're asking for a punch in the face without any questions. Nothing against you, just the screwdriver.....

Paranoid much? :eek:

Lets not forget Apple don't do any market research, so how do they know what people want

If you seriously think they made the changes to the 17" MBP without some solid numbers telling them that 95% (or whatever) of users of that model don't ever swap out their battery and 92% (or whatever) don't need a battery exchange within the service life of their laptop you must be smoking crack.

[kgeier82]

Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to the 13/15-inch machines going this direction with the next revision. You need to take the back off to get to the RAM anyway, and the removal of that latch may make it possible for the 13" machine to regain firewire in addition to better battery life.

While I totally agree, this is as likely of 100% happening as the cubs winning the world series.

Sadly, I also am a cubs fan!

[kornyboy]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

So you can crack it open and replace the RAM and HD, but you can't touch the battery? seems weird to me

I agree, but the procedure for it looks fairly straight forward.

[CrackedButter]

Paranoid much? :eek:

If you seriously think they made the changes to the 17" MBP without some solid numbers telling them that 95% (or whatever) of users of that model don't ever swap out their battery and 92% (or whatever) don't need a battery exchange within the service life of their laptop you must be smoking crack.

You pull figures out of thin air and I'll cite a source okay?

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/3.html

All Apple have to do is correlate the number of laptops they sell to the number of batteries they sell off the shelf. So no, market research wouldn't be needed.

But I wasn't talking about batteries, my point was about whether Apple knew whether people wanted a thin 17" laptop or a beefier one with quad core options.

[alFR]

You pull figures out of thin air and I'll cite a source okay?

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/3.html



I'd have thought that the "or whatever" part might have made it clear I was making those numbers up.

re: the CNN article, as you say they could either look at sales or do user experience surveys (which they definitely do, I've filled one in) to find out what users want without doing traditional "market research". Either way, I'm sure they don't do a thing without at least some data to show it'll sell: evidence for that would be the typical "Apple releases product, loads of people moan about lack of features, Apple subsequently posts massive sales figures for product" cycle that happens every time they change something...

[polaris20]

Im not sure if they can, I have never seen a 3rd party power adaptor.

I have, at least for regular laptop PCs. TigerDirect used to carry one that was a thin mat that was just barely longer and wider than your average 15" laptop that connected to the laptop's AC Adapter port. I don't see why that wouldn't be possible with the MacBooks.

[portent]

Oh dear, somebody forgot that I am a customer and if they had done so, I'd be owning one of the new MBP's by now. Hence, Apple makes money and shareholders are happy.

You have, I think, an inflated sense of your own value as a customer. You are just one customer among millions.

Apple, like most every company, conducts surveys and focus groups to find out what features are most in demand. They conduct these surveys, include demographic data like age, financial status, and do a cost-benefit calculation. Then they build to the majority.

Lots of people seem to believe that Apple's products are dreamed up by Steve Jobs, who then runs in and tells of his miraculous vision to Jon Ive, who then crafts exactly what the master has foretold. That's a nice story, but it's crap. You can't run a multibilliondollar company that way, and Apple doesn't. They do careful research into what buyers want, and then they stick to it.

[Wolfpup]

I'm SOOOOOO relieved to hear the hard drive and RAM are still user accessible parts! That was the worst thing about this original announcement (although I'm confused why the battery isn't, given it doesn't look hard to do...)

Looks like it just uses normal phillips screws, so that's great!

[zorinlynx]

What I don't get is, why does Apple claim the battery isn't user-replaceable when it so obviously is, and easily at that?

And on top of this, they made the battery harder to change by using an uncommon screw type to secure it.

They could have just made the battery user-replaceable and saved all this whining. Yeah, it wouldn't be easy to swap it out while on a flight, but I'm talking end of life replacement.

Why artificially make it hard to replace? Now Apple has to dedicate service time to changing batteries when they could be doing more productive work. They could probably sell the batteries off the shelf for the same amount they charge to replace them, maximizing profits.

[CrackedButter]

You have, I think, an inflated sense of your own value as a customer. You are just one customer among millions.

You have a knack for stating the obvious, I'm well aware of where I sit in the consumer food chain. I don't have an inflated sense of my own value, I simply would like another version of a top of the line Laptop to be offered by Apple.

[Jimmy James]

Now if only an Apple computer could properly play common compressed video formats, I'd buy one.

[Wolfpup]

Now if only an Apple computer could properly play common compressed video formats, I'd buy one.

Like what? As far as I know OS X can handle normal video formats just fine, except....

No Blu Ray support! I love love love TV and movies, so Blu Ray support is critical to me. I was so hoping that it was coming late last year in a point release, and the new Macbook/Pros would have drives, but they don't and it didn't :(

I'm 98% sure I'd have a Macbook Pro right now if they offered Blu Ray drives (with playback support of course!)

You can use an external drive and reboot to Windows of course, but that's kind of clunky :(

[detz]

Like what? As far as I know OS X can handle normal video formats just fine, except....

No Blu Ray support! I love love love TV and movies, so Blu Ray support is critical to me. I was so hoping that it was coming late last year in a point release, and the new Macbook/Pros would have drives, but they don't and it didn't :(

I'm 98% sure I'd have a Macbook Pro right now if they offered Blu Ray drives (with playback support of course!)

You can use an external drive and reboot to Windows of course, but that's kind of clunky :(

The computer will play bluray video's fine, just rip your dvd's to disk, that's what I do.

[Wolfpup]

The computer will play bluray video's fine, just rip your dvd's to disk, that's what I do.

Yeeeeah but it still doesn't have a drive, that's technically illegal in the US, and I'd be scared to buy that program that does it, since I'd probably be the one who gets charged (for just trying to watch my own Blu Rays I bought!)

[Jimmy James]

Specifically, avi's and mkv's. They look terribly blocky and pixelated, but fine on a windows pc. I tried multiple players and posted on multiple forums and there is no solution.

In every other aspect I would love to own a Mac. Find me a fix for this and I'll go buy one.

[Wolfpup]

Oh, okay. Umm...(tries to remember the name) VLC doesn't work? I think that's what it's called.

I think the drivers probably don't accelerate video as well as in Windows. I have to admit I've never even used those formats, so... (I just want Blu Ray :( )

[Jimmy James]

Oh, okay. Umm...(tries to remember the name) VLC doesn't work? I think that's what it's called.

I think the drivers probably don't accelerate video as well as in Windows. I have to admit I've never even used those formats, so... (I just want Blu Ray :( )

Yeah, VLC. It's what I'm accustomed to using and was my first try on the Mac. I agree, it's probably the codecs that aren't as efficient.

Like I said; once (if) this gets resolved I'll own a Mac. Until then, no dice.

[ayeying]

Yeah, VLC. It's what I'm accustomed to using and was my first try on the Mac. I agree, it's probably the codecs that aren't as efficient.

Like I said; once (if) this gets resolved I'll own a Mac. Until then, no dice.

Have you tried the new ones yet? I never seen a blocky image on my videos played in OSX or Windows. Infact, I moved all my AVIs from my old Windows PC to the OSX platform and I never had any problems with codecs or such.

[Jimmy James]

Have you tried the new ones yet? I never seen a blocky image on my videos played in OSX or Windows. Infact, I moved all my AVIs from my old Windows PC to the OSX platform and I never had any problems with codecs or such.

No, I haven't tested this issue on the new macs yet. I had a Mac for a week (and returned it) that was far superior to my PC in every hardware aspect. The videos looked fine on my inferior-spec pc but not so much on the mac. I'm certain it wasn't hardware related.

I spend about an hour a day watching avi's, so maybe I'm more discriminating about this that most. Still, it was easily discernible to the extent that it gave me a mild headache every day I used it.

[seedster2]

I can appreciate the need for additional screen size, but I don't understand why the elected to keep the other specs so mundane on their top of the line desktop replacement - no quad core, no dual hard drives, no high end video card, one extra USB...

With additional width couldn't they add a number pad or full size keys?

I also look forward to seeing battery results when actually doing CPU/Drive intensive production work. I dont think those often quoted marketing numbers will warrant the fixed battery.

[Wolfpup]

Yeah, this would be a lot nicer with say a quad core, at least a 9700GTS (if not one of the 64 processor GPUs), and a slightly larger system with appropriate cooling.

As is the screen size is nice, but it's a bit bigger too, and you can attach any system to an external monitor, so...

[BenRoethig]

What I don't get is, why does Apple claim the battery isn't user-replaceable when it so obviously is, and easily at that

Same reason your car warranty recommends use of factory parts: $$$

[sos85]

In my opinion , I cant see many differences between macbook 15 and macbook 17.

The Macbook 17 battery is too big and heavy.

[G5isAlive]

Again, Apple isn't going to change it for 5% of the market, if you don't like it go to another hardware manufacture and you will be replaced by the next generation that wants the sleeker, lighter and longer lasting batteries. The new 17" is exactly what I want, it's 17" screen, it's light and small, has a long lasting battery and it's powerful enough for everything I need. If you guys want a changeable battery maybe you should get the 15"?

Wow. So as long as its what YOU want, its okay?

Bottom line is people are quick to throw around numbers that they have no clue on (show me the research that says 95% never swap batteries). And they are quick to say get an external battery without doing the homework (its 5 lbs and costs over $400).

There are people that swap batteries. Because they know as you are finding out, the newer next generation batteries are not as great as claimed. Steve Jobs wanted bragging rights. And we are paying for that.

[john.dk]

Hello all.

I have not posted before in the forums but I need some help.

I had ordered a new unibody 17¨ online about 2 weeks ago, but yesterday I canceled the order. I am not so sure about two things. First, a little history...

Right now I work with a Macbook Pro 17¨ 2.16ghz early 2006 model (max 2gb ram). I use my laptop on location regularly, I have 5 batteries total.

As I had a friend going to the USA I had him buy the ram needed for the new unibody 17¨ to max it out at 8. It costs 2x more here in Spain.

In hindsight, I think the unreplaceable battery isn´t going to cut it for me and I will need an external solution, but I already have 5 batteries that would fit the last generation of MBP 17¨. But the Ram I just purchased won´t work with the previous model (will it?).

I want to know if I try and hold out until the end of the year for the i7 cores, will they take the same RAM as the new unibody 17¨?

Also if I buy a previous generation 17¨ before the unibody, would my batteries work ok? and would it be THAT much slower?

Thanks in Advance of any solutions you may have!

John in BCN

[Wolfpup]

Hello all.

I have not posted before in the forums but I need some help.

I had ordered a new unibody 17¨ online about 2 weeks ago, but yesterday I canceled the order. I am not so sure about two things. First, a little history...

Right now I work with a Macbook Pro 17¨ 2.16ghz early 2006 model (max 2gb ram). I use my laptop on location regularly, I have 5 batteries total.

As I had a friend going to the USA I had him buy the ram needed for the new unibody 17¨ to max it out at 8. It costs 2x more here in Spain.

In hindsight, I think the unreplaceable battery isn´t going to cut it for me and I will need an external solution, but I already have 5 batteries that would fit the last generation of MBP 17¨. But the Ram I just purchased won´t work with the previous model (will it?).

I want to know if I try and hold out until the end of the year for the i7 cores, will they take the same RAM as the new unibody 17¨?

Also if I buy a previous generation 17¨ before the unibody, would my batteries work ok? and would it be THAT much slower?

Thanks in Advance of any solutions you may have!

John in BCN

Keep in mind we don't really know when a 17" update will come-there may not be another real one until next year.

Any update will PROBABLY also use DDR3, but it might not be the same speed, so still may not work. It won't work with the previous gen 17" either.

As for speed, the CPU is a slight revision, and the GPU is clocked faster too. But both are fairly close. The new one has a user replaceable hard drive though, which is awesome (though it's harder to do than on the smaller models).

[Different Level]

I doubt the new 17" MBP may not even get to 8 hours when running Aperture and Photoshop, let along three apps in the Final Cut Suite.

I doubt...may not even get... Nice.

[Digital Skunk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the point of a replaceable battery if the MBP would be used as a desktop replacement? Last time I checked, most desks usually have a power-receptacle somewhere underneath it located on the wall and approximately 12" from the floor.

As in you take it with you... :rolleyes:

Does anybody WORK with their machines anymore?

There. Fixed that for you.

??? :confused:

I guess you don't have much to add to the conversation either.

Good for you.

I hate it when mindless drones try to go toe to toe with those that actually KNOW something about using computers.... but then again, you know what they say about arguing with idiots. :rolleyes:

[true777]

Has anyone received the 17" MBP with the antiglare screen? If so can you post pictures? I have seen the glossy 17" at the Palo Alto Apple Store, but would like to see what the antiglare machine looks like exactly before making a decision. The store employee wasn't sure whether they would have antiglare ones on display and seemed sceptical they would.

[lftrghtparadigm]

The back and forth discussion over this thing has got to be one of the most ridiculous in years, save for maybe the iPhone nano fiasco.

Its a non-removable battery because, it's a GOOD battery. Yes that's a new and different thing. A laptop with a good battery. Imagine the concept.

Unless you are THE guy who is out in the wilderness, away from all sorts of power for hours upon hours upon hours, WITH demanding, unrestricted use of your 17" MacBook Pro (gets funnier with each point)and needs to blow through the 8 hour charge and begin swapping your multiple fully charged battery backups..... then this is, of course, the expensive laptop for you.

Aside from that one scenario, which worldwide might be 4 people, this is a good product, in touch with actual users needs, and better than what it replaces.

[lftrghtparadigm]

As in you take it with you... :rolleyes:

Does anybody WORK with their machines anymore?



??? :confused:

I guess you don't have much to add to the conversation either.

Good for you.

I hate it when mindless drones try to go toe to toe with those that actually KNOW something about using computers.... but then again, you know what they say about arguing with idiots. :rolleyes:

we know what Arn says about it, which is why most discussion with you is better off avoided.

[VoR]

The back and forth discussion over this thing has got to be one of the most ridiculous in years, save for maybe the iPhone nano fiasco.

Its a non-removable battery because, it's a GOOD battery. Yes that's a new and different thing. A laptop with a good battery. Imagine the concept.


It's that ridiculous? Discussions do go back and forth, and in this one some people are saying they don't mind the battery being inside the machine, some are saying they do and some don't even care! :)

You can justify wanting a removable battery for the obvious reasons, having an internal one (whatever the advertising blurb says..) seems like it has no advantages other than aesthetics. You call it a 'GOOD' battery, so do apple - just looks like a large one to me. It's a 17" laptop which are (more?) often used as mobile desktops/replacements, so it seems like a strange way to design the machine. There's no 'new' hardware and no swappable bays, it's just a mbp with a bigger screen and battery.

[gnasher729]

It's that ridiculous? Discussions do go back and forth, and in this one some people are saying they don't mind the battery being inside the machine, some are saying they do and some don't even care! :)

You can justify wanting a removable battery for the obvious reasons, having an internal one (whatever the advertising blurb says..) seems like it has no advantages other than aesthetics. You call it a 'GOOD' battery, so do apple - just looks like a large one to me. It's a 17" laptop which are (more?) often used as mobile desktops/replacements, so it seems like a strange way to design the machine. There's no 'new' hardware and no swappable bays, it's just a mbp with a bigger screen and battery.

When Apple announced that the new MacBook Pro would have a non-swappable battery, the reaction of "oh my god I can't swap the battery" was absolutely predictable. I think it was a good decision to make the battery non-swappable for the following reasons:

1. Those who complain that they can't swap the battery on a long flight forget that this is a 17 inch laptop, which means it is too bloody big to be used in an airplane in the first place. If you intend to use a laptop on a flight, this is not for you. No 17 inch laptop in the world is for you.

2. There are some people who currently swap batteries while on the road. The new battery has a much longer life (eight instead of five hours when new, and it will keep new longer than older batteries did), so the percentage of users who would need swapping is now much, much lower.

3. There are people who are afraid of the cost of replacing batteries when they get old (replacing means: Throw away old battery, put in a new one). To those I must say: The new batteries last a lot longer, 1000 charges of 8 hours instead of 300 charges of 5 hours until battery life is reduced by 20 percent. So after 1000 charges these batteries are still better than an old-style battery when it is brand new. In other words, replacements are much more rare. The battery has actually a good chance to outlast your laptop.

If you get your replacement batteries from Apple, you will safe a lot of money because by the time you need a new $179 battery you would have been through three $129 old batteries. If you buy your replacement batteries from eBay, you _can_ replace it yourself, as shown in the article, and you will be able to buy one from exactly the same sources as now, where the manufacturer of the batteries does an extra shift and all those batteries turn up on eBay. It is ten minutes work instead of one minute, that is all.

[Digital Skunk]

we know what Arn says about it, which is why most discussion with you is better off avoided.

Good to know that you get your cues from Arn...


Like I thought, you don't have a mind of your own.... so most discussion with you will just end up void.... like what you have been saying since you joined. :rolleyes:

....

p.s. As I said, others have given their scenarios.... your kool-aid mind can't wrap around them so you choose to ignore them all save for one, take that one and blow it out of proportion and put forth an abundance of fallacies and FUD to denounce it.

This is the point where you bring me to your level (down that is) and beat me with your "never used a computer for real work a day in my life, just d!ck around with them all day," experience.

p.s. You can have your OPINION, but don't push it like it were a fact and applicable for people that actually know what they are talking about when it comes to THEIR OWN needs. When you talk like that, you become a kool-aid drinker and it's not very becoming. I am sure we could have had a great discussion.

[Digital Skunk]

When Apple announced that the new MacBook Pro would have a non-swappable battery, the reaction of "oh my god I can't swap the battery" was absolutely predictable. I think it was a good decision to make the battery non-swappable for the following reasons:

1. Those who complain that they can't swap the battery on a long flight forget that this is a 17 inch laptop, which means it is too bloody big to be used in an airplane in the first place. If you intend to use a laptop on a flight, this is not for you. No 17 inch laptop in the world is for you.

NOPE not true. Any 17" owner can attest to their ability to use a 17" MBP in flight, and they do fit nicely behind that tiny little tray. Remember that we are talking about the smallest, lightest, and not so filled with hardware 17" on the market. I have stuck mine in very tight places with not problem, and I am a fat @$$ with a big gut.

This simply isn't true.

2. There are some people who currently swap batteries while on the road. The new battery has a much longer life (eight instead of five hours when new, and it will keep new longer than older batteries did), so the percentage of users who would need swapping is now much, much lower.

True, but the main issue is when it does die, and the work that you do that won't get it to eight hours. Not that you don't understand, but for the sake of the retards that don't get it, I won't mention the examples that I and many others have given already. But there are times when (the classic last gen MBP) can get 3 hours with pro apps, and there is no outlet available at all.

3. There are people who are afraid of the cost of replacing batteries when they get old (replacing means: Throw away old battery, put in a new one). To those I must say: The new batteries last a lot longer, 1000 charges of 8 hours instead of 300 charges of 5 hours until battery life is reduced by 20 percent. So after 1000 charges these batteries are still better than an old-style battery when it is brand new. In other words, replacements are much more rare. The battery has actually a good chance to outlast your laptop.

This is true, and one of the best things the new battery brings, but my biggest fear is getting a defective battery or having it fail in some way shape or form when I need it the most. Then I have to send the WHOLE laptop in to repair. Granted this hasn't happened since the 15" 12" Powerbook/Sony battery issue, but.........

If you get your replacement batteries from Apple, you will safe a lot of money because by the time you need a new $179 battery you would have been through three $129 old batteries. If you buy your replacement batteries from eBay, you _can_ replace it yourself, as shown in the article, and you will be able to buy one from exactly the same sources as now, where the manufacturer of the batteries does an extra shift and all those batteries turn up on eBay. It is ten minutes work instead of one minute, that is all.

True. And sadly, none of this matters to begin with since there's a 70% chance most will just get the 17" MBP.... unless Windows actually convinces some to switch back.

[RaZaK]

just get an airline adapter

depending on the airline, you may not get enough juice from the jack to power your laptop, or the seat may not have a jack, or the jack just might not work.

All of the above has happened to me on numerous occasions on trans-pacific flights. oh the humanity. :(

I vote for 8-hour batteries in all models.