Notes from MWC: Copying iPhone, Offline Gmail, Turn by Turn GPS for iPhone

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/18/notes-from-mwc-copying-iphone-offline-gmail-turn-by-turn-gps-for-iphone/)

Mobile World Congress 2009 took place this week in Barcelona, Spain bringing together the major players of the mobile phone industry. While Apple chose not to attend, a lot of the talk still surrounded Apple's iPhone. Here are a few notes of interest to come out of the conference.

- Apple's iPhone seemed to take center stage (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-10165705-78.html) during a panel discussion with CEOs from Microsoft, Nokia and AT&T. They criticized Apple's closed vertical ecosystem. Microsoft's Steve Ballmer, specifically, had this to say:"I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software," he said. "Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice."One audience question asked why these panelists were so worried about Apple when the iPhone holds only a small percentage of mobile phone marketshare. AT&T's De la Vega summed up the answer: "Because the other 99.5 percent of the industry is trying to copy the iPhone."

- Apple's investment in supporting upcoming web standards may begin to pay off with a new breed of "offline" web applications. Google demoed (http://www.iphonebuzz.com/google-demo-offline-gmail-webapp-for-iphone-video-demo-186230.php) a version of GMail that will still work even when Airplane mode is on. Airplane mode effectively takes the iPhone offline, but by using local storage capabilities found in HTML5, users would still be able to browse and manipulate their mail. A YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmjxmOtNZCk) shows it in action. These sort of offline web applications have been discussed (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/06/23/a-webkit-based-platform/) as possibilities in the past given Apple's investment in web-standards. Of course, these apps would work on any HTML5-compliant browser, including Android phones.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/02/18/141922-sygic-iphone-turn-by-turn-3_425.jpg

Photo from The iPhone Blog (http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/18/eyes-sygic-turn-turn-gps-app-iphone/ )
- A company called Sygic demonstrated (http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/18/eyes-sygic-turn-turn-gps-app-iphone/) a full featured turn-by-turn GPS application for the iPhone and is planning on submitting it to the App Store despite SDK terms that seem to specifically prohibit such applications.

- Gizmodo took a look (http://i.gizmodo.com/5154984/android-g2-hands-on-close-to-perfection) at the new Android G2 and liked it with the exception of the typing interface.

Article Link: Notes from MWC: Copying iPhone, Offline Gmail, Turn by Turn GPS for iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/02/18/notes-from-mwc-copying-iphone-offline-gmail-turn-by-turn-gps-for-iphone/)

[mikeinternet]

If apple isn't going to and turn by turn navigation to their maps app. they need to let these better apps in.

[neverfade]

In front of all those CEO's ( Ballmer included ) saying 'Because everyone is trying to copy the iPhone!' - Ah, that's just good stuff, right there!:cool:

Also, to have turn by turn directions on the iPhone would be great. Absolutely fantastic. I really hope Apple approves of such an App. Someone refresh my memory as to why the SDK says they can't?

[JonJ]

Ballmer, you two-faced scumbag. You have NEVER been a fan of "openness" so for you to comment that 'openness is good' is beyond irony.

[Mac21ND]

Ballmer needs to worry about his own company first. Ask the folks over at MiniMicrosoft how they feel about Ballmer after the first round of layoffs: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/

[kgeier82]

Ballmer, you two-faced scumbag. You have NEVER been a fan of "openness" so for you to comment that 'openness is good' is beyond irony.

agree!!!

Bout the only times I can remember his openess was way back in the day when he "opened his arms" to xerox :)

that and who can forget "Wild Tongue"!

[ivladster]

Ahhh Ballmer is wrong like always. "No company can do software and hardware"... Ummmm hellloooooo who's your favorite company to copy? I think it's Apple, well they all that plus they can kick you in your sack.

[Kilamite]

Integration of software and hardware is what makes the iPhone work so well...so you're wrong Ballmer.

[Mjmar]

The last time that I checked, integration between hardware and software is what people want. Ballmer doesn't know what he's talking about.

[mogzieee]

- Gizmodo took a look (http://i.gizmodo.com/5154984/android-g2-hands-on-close-to-perfection) at the new Android G2 and liked it with the exception of the typing interface.

It's actually called the 'HTC Magic'. There's a thread here on Mac Rumors about it here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=653290).

[Slash X]

Integration of software and hardware is what makes the iPhone work so well...so you're wrong Ballmer.

Ditto ------ That's because No single company has create a single device like the iPhone in concept or usability --- so why not rail on the successful company that does do this well

Ballmer ----- What a total Dushbag --- Even his half lies don't ad up now !!!!

[DaveTheGrey]

I take one of these turn by you know what thingys, thanks Ma'am!

[koobcamuk]

If this is quick, like the real thing, it will be excellent.

Only problem is when you are out of signal?

[Auzburner]

"Because the other 99.5 percent of the industry is trying to copy the iPhone."

Answer of the year! Perfect, in your face...

[Auzburner]

If apple isn't going to and turn by turn navigation to their maps app. they need to let these better apps in.

Absolutely, we also need a video recording app. It has been done easily and Apple simply won't allow it, because - just because...

[everettmarshall]

I've come to terms with the idea that if Turn By Turn becomes available it will be for a monthly fee. I seriously doubt that we'll see it included in the data plan (like Sprint does) and that we'll see another $10 +tax vanish from our bank accounts if we want it. I don't have the best sense of direction when I travel but it's not worth $120 a year when I already have a TomTom.

When Sygic gets rejected - which it will of course - I guess might have become a Jailbreaker.

[bottleddissent]

The hardware/OS integration on the iPhone (and on all macs) is what keeps them from being as screwed up as Windows machines.

I feel there is a lot of openness on the iPhone.. that's why there's an enormous app store.

[manhattanboy]

That Android interface is looking slicker... and so are those phones

[shneady]

Ballmer, what a player hater! He can't play the game. Poor little guy, I think he needs a hug! :(

[inkswamp]

"Because the other 99.5 percent of the industry is trying to copy the iPhone."

Talk about a blatant attempt to spread misinformation. I'm pretty sure the iPhone accounts for more than .5% of the phone market. Maybe I'm wrong, but even if the numbers show its market share being that small, the prevalence of Apple's approach and the way they've positioned themselves as the de facto standard for how phones should work should worry some of these people a lot. It's the old Coke-vs-Pepsi thing--if the big guys flinch (i.e., copying Apple outright, which many of them are doing) they lose in the minds of the consumer who will view their product as a wannabe and not as good as the original. If I were in their position, I'd be scared.

This is the same kind of attitude the rest of the industry had about the iPod in its first few years. "What? It's all proprietary? Other music stores can't be part of it? Apple's not licensing their DRM? BWAHAHA! Now that we've created our Plays For Sure ecosystem where everyone can be a part, Apple is doomed!"

Such nonsense. Instead of downplaying the iPhone, they should be brainstorming for great ideas that leapfrog Apple and leave the iPhone behind before it's too late. Instead, they're going to hand over their lunch money to Apple just like they did with music.

[Consultant]

Article on lack of Android announcements at MWC,
and what MS does to promote its inferior, non-shipping product.

Did Microsoft kill Android at Mobile World Congress 2009?
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/18/did-microsoft-kill-android-at-mobile-world-congress-2009/

[plumbingandtech]

Balmer is a Zune. With a moldy layer of PRE.

[mikeinternet]

Absolutely, we also need a video recording app. It has been done easily and Apple simply won't allow it, because - just because...

the only reason i can see for holding back video recording ( which many of us had or still have on hacked phones ) is that the quality was not so hot. when you consider that direct upload to youtube was also working fine, you have to figure youtube will be attacked with crap quality videos.

sorry if this is off topic.

[rhett7660]

Turn by turn looks nice. What would everyone be willing to pay for it?

[Kilamite]

Turn by turn looks nice. What would everyone be willing to pay for it?

$0.99

[fribhey]

Ballmer ----- What a total Dushbag

:confused:

i don't even know what that is... but i'm guessing it's not nice

[Eddyisgreat]

Ballmer as usual fails on so many levels. He needs to stick a sock in it. Until MSFT's stock is higher than AAPL's, and according to my holdings, its not, he needs to worry about his own stuff.

iPhone ftw! WM ftl :(.

[diamond.g]

$0.99

Per month? ;)

[notjustjay]

Wow, Ballmer is so insightful.

No single company can create all the hardware and software, eh?

Yet what has Microsoft been working on for the past several decades? They dominate the operating systems market. They dominate the productivity software market. They're trying to dominate the music market. They're trying to dominate the mobile phone market. They're trying to dominate the computer gaming market.

Whatever market they can't dominate, their strategy is to kill or cripple the competition. I'm fairly certain it would be Gates & Co's DREAM COME TRUE if one day they woke up and found all-Microsoft software running on PCs, mobile phones, gaming systems, etc. all being manufactured by Microsoft.

And just how "open" and "full of choice" do you think that would be?

Pot, kettle, black.

[bbplayer5]

Wow, Ballmer is so insightful.

No single company can create all the hardware and software, eh?

Yet what has Microsoft been working on for the past several decades? They dominate the operating systems market. They dominate the productivity software market. They're trying to dominate the music market. They're trying to dominate the mobile phone market. They're trying to dominate the computer gaming market.

Whatever market they can't dominate, their strategy is to kill or cripple the competition. Were Apple and Google to close up shop tomorrow, how long would it be before Microsoft dominated their space too? And just how "open" and "full of choice" do you think that would be?

Pot, kettle, black.


M$ doesnt make computers or phones. Thats his point. Apple makes the phone and doesnt make the software. Hes basically agreeing with their strategy and hes right.

[mikeinternet]

Turn by turn looks nice. What would everyone be willing to pay for it?

How about nothing. It should be the next upgrade to google maps.

[dejo]

Also, to have turn by turn directions on the iPhone would be great. Absolutely fantastic. I really hope Apple approves of such an App. Someone refresh my memory as to why the SDK says they can't?
The SDK doesn't include the "why", just the "what". And Apple has not said anything as to the "why". It just isn't.

[MacsRgr8]

Turn by turn looks nice. What would everyone be willing to pay for it?

Working across the globe??

Up to $ 99,-

[feakbeak]

The hardware/OS integration on the iPhone (and on all macs) is what keeps them from being as screwed up as Windows machines.

I feel there is a lot of openness on the iPhone.. that's why there's an enormous app store.
In all fairness, the software/hardware integration is what makes Apple products good. They don't design hardware and they don't design software - they design and deliver a good overall user experience. Their products are far from perfect, they often lack desirable features, sometimes features we think are basic or intuitive - copy and paste, voice dialing, turn-by-turn app for a device with GPS, video recording - I could go on and that's just about the iPhone.

As for openness there are valid points on both sides of the argument. Apple's closed system allows them to do things they could not do otherwise. It's about controlling the user experience, which is what they design and sell. So it's understandable, but the iPhone platform is not true openness by any stretch of the imagination. If you follow the news about iPhone apps, you well know Apple has killed and denied many an app from the App store simply because they don't want people making whatever software available. That's not openness, that is total control of their closed system. I'm not arguing for or against Apple's approach. They certainly have valid reasons for their approach given their business model. It is what it is but it's not open.

I like Apple's products but Apple is not a nice company. When it comes to markets they have serious interest in they play hardball and they aren't afraid to bully others around when they can.

M$ doesnt make computers or phones. Thats his point. Apple makes the phone and doesnt make the software. Hes basically agreeing with their strategy and hes right.Apple does make the software. They make the OS that runs the phone, they make all the critical apps that are on the phone - the phone app, email, browser, iPod software, the photo taking/viewing software, the Core services software and SDK that every other app will use. I even read recently that the Google Maps app was actually written by Apple, not Google. I'm sure Google was involved but the fact that Apple had control of the code and put it out says a lot. Just because Apple allows others to write apps for their platform, doesn't make it an open platform. The App store is very much a closed system - nothing gets into that App store unless Apple wants it there.

[ztigerpaw]

The only open thing about Microsoft is how much there trying to spread Windows onto every platform on the market at any cost.

[plumbingandtech]

$0.99

Google: "what the market currently charges for this sort of thing when not looked at thru the filter of the everything must be 99cents or else crowd".

[diamond.g]

Google: "what the market currently charges for this sort of thing when not looked at thru the filter of the everything must be 99cents or else crowd".

And don't forget the yearly Map updates... :D

[ipoppy]

Absolutely, we also need a video recording app. It has been done easily and Apple simply won't allow it, because - just because...

You will not see recording app neither turn-by-turn on iPhone 3G. Its not just because, the reason is iPhone 3G hardware limitation such GPS signal etc. Because it is possible to do that does not mean its right for this iPhone and developers dont know that because don't have access to core iPhone OS to confirm it. But Apple got that access and thats why you not see such apps. They want top quality of prduct which will work with iPhone without any problems and I think they doing right job to keep that way.
By the way....hold your breath and wait for iPhone 3.0 hopefully this summer. As rumor says it might have quad core processor+other components, which give enough power for your apps and other surprises including my favorite iChat AV.
:D:apple::D

[plumbingandtech]

And don't forget the yearly Map updates... :D

No! They have to be free, 'cause, yah know, cause... 99 CENTS!!!!!!!!!!!
;)

[FoxHoundADAM]

Absolutely, we also need a video recording app. It has been done easily and Apple simply won't allow it, because - just because...

How else do you think they are going to be able to make you buy a new iPhone, or even a new software bundle? They are working on it and you can bet it won't be anywhere near as cheap as any of these thrid party apps.

[Rat-Boy]

I used my GPS for about an hour while plugged in the the car charger on a road trip and the phone got so hot I could fry an egg on it.

Never got hot again after that because I haven't used GPS for that long before.

So, unless my phone is just jacked up (highly possible given the issues MANY have had with the 3G) then I don't see the need for turn by turn on this unit.

[dejo]

Its not just because, the reason is iPhone 3G hardware limitation such GPS signal etc.
And yet Sygic has already produced a demo (http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/18/eyes-sygic-turn-turn-gps-app-iphone/) of turn-by-turn navigation running on a iPhone 3G. So, it's not a hardware limitation.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

$0.99

It's people like you that killed the app store. No one will pay more than $.99 now so no serious developers are looking at making good apps. They're just making crappy $.99 widgets.

[LagunaSol]

Microsoft is a proponent of "choice" - as long as people are "choosing" Microsoft.

Ballmer is a tool. End of story.

And yes, it is ludicrous that 6 months after the iPhone 3G debut, we still don't have a real turn-by-turn navigation app. Ridiculous.

Apple may force me to "choose" another device if they can't pull their heads out and allow some basic functionality.

[DocNYz]

If apple isn't going to and turn by turn navigation to their maps app. they need to let these better apps in.

Seriously. Google maps is really helpful sometimes, but it is terribly inaccurate other times - not to mention how dangerous it is to simply follow your blue dot 'avatar' and guess if you're at the correct turn or not instead of keeping your eyes on the road. I though TomTom or one of the big companies was working on a true GPS navigation software app for the iPhone? How long has the SDK not allowed this? Did I miss some major announcement here? If apple wants its own programs on the phone, that's fine, that's what most of us trust - but google is not an apple app and it is NOT reliable enough to be the only navigation software available!! This is ridiculous, and their losing sales to all the less capable phones that do have this feature and sell because of it alone!

[Michael CM1]

Integration of software and hardware is what makes the iPhone work so well...so you're wrong Ballmer.

What's kind of funny is Apple doesn't really "make" the hardware. Apple just picks the best parts from manufacturers like Samsung, Intel, Toshiba, etc. and then assembles them. So it's not like Apple has a factory where they make everything from scratch. Interestingly, Macs often use the same exact crap that's in PCs for major components yet the Mac doesn't fail nearly as much (suck it, Ballmer!).

But anywho, the integration is what makes Apple. They can pick a few different hardware pieces for each part and then write the OS to work with those. This beats Microsoft's approach for giving support to 18,000 different video cards, 17,500 of which don't really work well. You're either going to kinda work on a lot of crap, or really work on not much crap. Wonder which one Microsoft chose.

[ipoppy]

And yet Sygic has already produced a demo (http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/18/eyes-sygic-turn-turn-gps-app-iphone/) of turn-by-turn navigation running on a iPhone 3G. So, it's not a hardware limitation.

TomTom did it as well, but apple said there is a software problem to it. Wasn't politics involved there, oh no. My point is that developers can create great products, which work just fine but on long run can affect Apple core apps or generally stability of iPhone. Those developers don't have tools to check that out but Apple have. Remember that app has to go through Apple hands first before appear in app store. They don't just sit there and watch how pretty app is, they test it as well.

[dejo]

TomTom did it as well, but apple said there is a software problem to it.
Wait? Didn't you say earlier it was a hardware limitation? Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say. If so, my apologies.

[Winni]

Ballmer is absolutely right with what he said about CHOICE. The business market always wanted a consolidated software platform and also only one hardware architecture -- but businesses want to choose from multiple vendors and manufacturers. They don't want an Apple-like total vendor-lock in.

Microsoft has always been very smart to NOT sell an own brand of computers. That was the key to their extreme success. They "just" offer the common software platform that everybody needs.

Now the mobile market, especially the market for smartphones, is also in need of consolidation. Apple introduced a beautifully designed user interface, but once again they are ruining their own options by limiting their software to their one device. One size does not fit all - it never has and never will.

Simply speaking: They could own the SOFTWARE market for smartphones if they would just license their damn software to the other hardware players. And if they would allow competing AppStores, of course.

Basically, they are repeating the very same mistake they've made with the Mac. And afterwards, they are whining about all those companies "copying" their ideas and about "all those clones". Instead of letting everybody else play with them.

But that is the difference between Apple and Microsoft: Microsoft provides platforms and ecosystems for an entire industry. Apple only cares for themselves. They don't play well with others at all.

[Winni]

Ballmer as usual fails on so many levels. He needs to stick a sock in it. Until MSFT's stock is higher than AAPL's, and according to my holdings, its not, he needs to worry about his own stuff..

You, sir, don't seem to know what stocks are and how they work.

[plumbingandtech]

Repost #192811

It is BECAUSE apple "bundles" the software and hardware that we get great products. (See PC market and Microsoft)

Repost #8998922

Cloning failed on the mac.

Repost #993838

When there is only one store it makes the use and process of buying apps seemless. Unlike every other phone on the market.

[farmboy]

These CEOs, and in particular Ballmer (based on other comments I've seen), just do not get it.

They want all the software developers for the iPhone to develop for their phones as well; this would be easier if they all used the same coding. Then all the apps would run on everything. Then all the phones would essentially be reduced to the cheapest possible crap (commodity pricing), because they would all be essentially the same, and lowest pricing wins.

This is not Apple's thing, in any market they enter. Ain't gonna happen, and shouldn't.

[Kilamite]

It's people like you that killed the app store. No one will pay more than $.99 now so no serious developers are looking at making good apps. They're just making crappy $.99 widgets.

Make a good app and sell it for $0.99 and it'll sell extremely well. Think how many iPhone users are. The potential is huge to make a lot of money. $0.99 is an ideal price for a reason, it is the kind of money people can throw away with an impulse purchase. If developers aren't interested in earning a potential $1,000,000 from selling an app at $0.99 and making it good and hoping a potential 1.3 million people download it then who cares.

I really disagree paying anything more than $3 for an application for my iPhone. Something that someone has created, yet it is distributed for free (with Apple Developer Membership) and the developer doesn't have to do anything.

We aren't talking about people making a physical product - something like a chair, that for them to sell more than one they have to create more than one. We're talking about software that you make one, and it is just duplicated for however many people want to buy it.

What's kind of funny is Apple doesn't really "make" the hardware. Apple just picks the best parts from manufacturers like Samsung, Intel, Toshiba, etc. and then assembles them. So it's not like Apple has a factory where they make everything from scratch. Interestingly, Macs often use the same exact crap that's in PCs for major components yet the Mac doesn't fail nearly as much (suck it, Ballmer!).

That's what people say when Apple makes the hardware - they actually put it together and select what components go in it. Fair enough they don't make the majority of the components, but the fact that they select what goes in so they can design the software to precisely take advantage of what they have created hardware wise.

[Mr. Owl]

While I don't think anyone would accuse Ballmer of being open (unless you're talking about the Monkey-Boy Developers Dance™), or even the company he runs as being on the front lines of innovation... even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

If he were totally wrong on this one, there wouldn't be anywhere near the Jailbreaking community that there is.

While I haven't jailbroken (jailbraked? jailbaited? ... no wait, that's something else) mine, I would really like to be able to put stuff on there that Apple hasn't specifically approved.

Themes. UI tweaks. Flash. Programs that allow copy & paste, since Apple continues to decline to provide the capability. Something to edit text/word/openoffice writer documents. These things (maybe not the last one yet, I haven't looked) and more are all out there, ready for me to install them if I'm willing to jailbreak... or if the iPhone was more open.

My iPhone is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I wouldn't trade it for a dozen android phones... but it could be better.

[Mr. Owl]

I'd LOVE for the turn-by-turn GPS to be 99¢. Every iPhone user would download it at that price, they might even turn a tidy profit from just the sheer numbers of purchases if they advertised it right. Turn-by-turn GPS would be such a strong selling feature that chances are that Apple would release one of those "There's an App for that" commercials.

But they won't do it. I would hope, since they're not selling the hardware, that it would be less than the cost of a traditional GPS (when did GPSs become traditional?).

[topmike]

I agree with the original poster "arn" about his insights with the MWC in Barcelona. I was also at the briefing, and here are some of the other notes:

Link to Digital Show Daily Here (http://www.wdisdigital.com/gsm.php?jnl=MWC2009)

Symbian (Nokia's OS) announced the Symbian Foundation and it will be a free OS for developers and users. You can access Nokia's QT (http://www.qtsoftware.com/) software to create applications for all software companies, including the iPhone. (This is via a LGPL licence). Their fully open and public 4.5 software to be released in June 2009.

Balmer Rant

An audience member from Denmark commented on Apple's fame, but lack of market penetration. Balmer clapped and shouted "YEAH" to this comment, as if stating that Apple is just hype in the mobile space.

----->While the comment about Apple's lack of market penetration from the gentleman from Denmark During the Balmer Keynote is true in his country, here are the worldwide facts:

Symbian OS is the leading OS in the "smart mobile device" market. Statistics published November 2008 (http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/11/apple_beats_rim.html) showed that Symbian OS had a 46.6% share of the smart mobile device market, with Apple having 17.3% (through iPhone OS), RIM having 15.3% and Microsoft having 13.5% (through Windows CE and Windows Mobile). Other competitors include Palm OS, Qualcomm's BREW, Google Android, SavaJe and MontaVista Software.

AT&T's CEO of mobility (Ralph De La Vega) reported that the iPhone was responsible for more applications downloaded (at over 500 million downloads and 50,000 applications) with Apple's global 10 million phones in the marketplace, than the rest of the 1.1 billion phones out there. So while Apple represents a small percentage of the total number of phones, it surpasses the rest of the phones when it comes to application use and downloads. The iPhone was responsible for an increase in ARPU for AT&T by over $30.


Google Application Support

Google (Vic Gundotra, VP of Engineering) is pushing Webkits with HTML 5, as this allows a single web application to be created for the iPhone, Nokia N-Series, The Palm Pre and Android based phones. They claim the biggest advantage of HTML 5 is:
Client-Side database storage
Client-Side caching
Safari JavaScript Database Programming

Vic is the one who demonstrated the g-mail application on the iPhone that allows a user to read his email in airplane mode.

As stated in other forum posts: Nokia announced the Ovi store (Ovi is "Door" in Finish), which is location aware. It will prioritize applications based on your current location and what your friends have downloaded.

Microsoft announced (http://www.internetnews.com/mobility/article.php/3803671/Windows+Mobile+65+Debuts+But+Is+It+Too+Late.htm) its own version of an app store called "Windows Marketplace." This will be accessed via the new Microsoft software, Windows Mobile 6.5.

Microsoft also announced "MyPhone (https://sn1-p1.myphone.microsoft.com/mkweb/Start.po?mkt=en-US)" which competes with Apple's Me service. This is a free service for Windows Mobile users.

[ipoppy]

Wait? Didn't you say earlier it was a hardware limitation? Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say. If so, my apologies.

Yes I did say that and nothing is wrong with that statement if software is too "heavy" for iPhone.
Is it?

[DavidLeblond]

Doesn't Microsoft make the XBox 360 and it's underlying OS?

[SandynJosh]

Wow, Ballmer is so insightful.

No single company can create all the hardware and software, eh?

Yet what has Microsoft been working on for the past several decades? They dominate the operating systems market. They dominate the productivity software market. They're trying to dominate the music market. They're trying to dominate the mobile phone market. They're trying to dominate the computer gaming market.

Whatever market they can't dominate, their strategy is to kill or cripple the competition. I'm fairly certain it would be Gates & Co's DREAM COME TRUE if one day they woke up and found all-Microsoft software running on PCs, mobile phones, gaming systems, etc. all being manufactured by Microsoft.

And just how "open" and "full of choice" do you think that would be?

Pot, kettle, black.

What really chaps Ballmer's big behind is that the most common non-Microsoft program that people install on Windows computers are two Apple products: iTunes and QuickTime.

He needs to do more happy dancing while screaming that he "loves this company!" Maybe he might get to do some unfunny creepy commercials with Jerry Seinfeld.

[plumbingandtech]

Make a good app and sell it for $0.99 and it'll sell extremely well.

Think how many iPhone users are. The potential is huge to make a lot of money.

So. So wrong...so many things wrong in your post.

Google: "limited markets , leaving money on the table"

[Alx9876]

I want this app so bad. Please Apple let this GPS app into the app store.

[jimmer-uk]

they test it as well.[/U]

Could of fooled me, half of what I buy off the app store doesn't install or if it does is full of bugs. It's like a jumble sale for kiddie developers. Give me quality apple, not stating proudly "we have 20,000 apps" . 19,500 of which are total rubbish. It's not a race to get the most apps. I do not sue the app store anymore.

I want genuinely useful stuff and turn by turn would be right up there. Tomtom had it ready but apple bullied them off, not for the benefit of the end user I might add. I really do want turn by turn and would be prepared to pay £80-£120 for the software and Euro maps.

[apolloa]

"Mobile World Congress 2009 took place this week in Barcelona, Spain bringing together the major players of the mobile phone industry. While Apple chose not to attend, a lot of the talk still surrounded Apple's iPhone."

Hahahahahahahahahaha LMFAO hahahahahaha :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Oh my ********** God. I have been following pretty much all the tech news web sites and mobile phone web sites for this week to see what has come out and there has been 1 yes ONE mention of the iPhone so far, that's the GPS app your reading about today which is a total waste of time as Apple refuses anyone to sell one for the iPhone.
IMO the iPhone is an amazing product UI wise but it has been SEVERELY held back with rubbish hardware (Camera anyway) and a total lock down of apps and good grief it can't even do MMS. You have to hack it or download an app for something the cheapest phone on the market can do.
Sorry for the rant, but I did read on one famous Apple news website today that the iPhone DOMINATED MWC!!!! hahahahahahahahaha
Wishful thinking, Apple will NEVER attend an event like MWC because they will be asked far too many difficult questions from the media and the competition will just slag them off constantly. As for WinMO 6.5, that's a disaster too.
The Palm Pre, now there's a damn fine phone.

[IJ Reilly]

At least the writer of this story understands that the word "openness" can mean anything anyone wants it to mean, kind of like "truth" and "beauty." Ballmer would like us to believe that "openness" in operating systems is defined by it being licensed to more than one hardware vendor, because that's what Microsoft does. Of course this is not "openness" by any definition, it's just licensing to more than one hardware vendor. The reality is that everyone would like to duplicate Apple's model, and they surely would if they knew how. This supposed commitment to the nebulous thing called "openness" is nothing more than a hoax, and an admission that they are chasing Apple and don't have a clue about how to catch them.

[kdarling]

What really chaps Ballmer's big behind is that the most common non-Microsoft program that people install on Windows computers are two Apple products: iTunes and QuickTime.

Never looked it up, but... more than Adobe's Flash? Or Java. Or even Firefox?

Microsoft has no problem with iPhones selling well. Heck, they get royalties because Apple had to license the Microsoft Exchange protocol to be taken seriously in business.

[Arisian]

I'd fight Ballmer....

[rockosmodurnlif]

Everyone is misunderstanding Ballmer. Microsoft has always been in favor of openness. They want your hardware open to run their software. That has always been Microsoft's business plan.

$0.99
You must be misguided. People don't want to pay for it. They expect it included on the iPhone. They pay money for fart apps.

[Kilamite]

You must be misguided. People don't want to pay for it. They expect it included on the iPhone. They pay money for fart apps.

Who are these "people"?

I don't know anyone who wouldn't pay $0.99 for a really good turn-by-turn directions GPS..

[Arisian]

Who are these "people"?

I don't know anyone who wouldn't pay $0.99 for a really good turn-by-turn directions GPS..

id have to agree.... .99 for a navigation based GPS unit on my iphone? I'd pay alot more, but for .99 you would sell quiet a bit....

People who pay .99 for fart apps deserve what they get...

[dejo]

How about nothing. It should be the next upgrade to google maps.

Who are these "people"?

I don't know anyone who wouldn't pay $0.99 for a really good turn-by-turn directions GPS..
I heard of this guy, mikeinternet... ;)

[preservative]

my precious.......

[kage207]

I'm usually open for openness of the market because it's the way to go and keeps costs down.

But if one company can delivery an experience that is valued by it's customers why shouldn't they be able to give that to their customers? I mean if I'm willing to accept that I might pick a company that is closed. Well that's the experience I want. I'm sorry but Apple has given me best user experience in computers ever. Not only has it given me a great computer experience but with their other devices such as iPods, iPhone, and AppleTV. They have all worked together so well and there has been little problems when connecting the devices. Apple has given me so little problems I can't remember one problem ever by them.

But when I was with PC and Windows, it's just such a pain in the ass to get devices to work together, even ones when they were made for each other. Like getting my Xbox360 to sync with my computer. Took me forever for awhile because they would tell me to go this part of the site and I would get sent to the same page I was just on. Downloaded a bunch of **** to just get it working.

Apple should let other apps come in even if they are similar because it creates competition and innovation of others ideas to get their users to their applications.

[NetScheduler]

Until MSFT's stock is higher than AAPL's, and according to my holdings, its not, he needs to worry about his own stuff.

iPhone ftw! WM ftl :(.

Please don't embarrass yourself further with nonsense such this ridiculous statement. It's obvious you don't have any "holdings" - I seriously doubt you have, or have ever owned a single share of stock...

[apolloa]

my precious.......

Yeah. So that's Co Pilot and Tom Tom and the other company from today, yet so far NONE of them can sell the software thanks to Apple!!! Seriously, more and more people use smart phones for car Sat Nav, I do, because then you get out of the car and use the same device to walk around with and find places. Apple really are placing both feet together, taking aim with a big ol shotgun and blasting both feet off with this one!!

[wheelhot]

Integration of software and hardware is what makes the iPhone work so well...so you're wrong Ballmer.

Yup, and that is why Windows Mobile 6.5 wont be any jawdropping OS cause it depends on how jawdropping the smartphone will be.

Its amazing that is how MS leader is thinking right now.

[preservative]

Yeah. So that's Co Pilot and Tom Tom and the other company from today, yet so far NONE of them can sell the software thanks to Apple!!! Seriously, more and more people use smart phones for car Sat Nav, I do, because then you get out of the car and use the same device to walk around with and find places. Apple really are placing both feet together, taking aim with a big ol shotgun and blasting both feet off with this one!!

Ok. How come g-map is in the appstore then?

http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx

How is this any different to tom and co?

[rockosmodurnlif]

Make a good app and sell it for $0.99 and it'll sell extremely well. Think how many iPhone users are. The potential is huge to make a lot of money. $0.99 is an ideal price for a reason, it is the kind of money people can throw away with an impulse purchase. If developers aren't interested in earning a potential $1,000,000 from selling an app at $0.99 and making it good and hoping a potential 1.3 million people download it then who cares.

I really disagree paying anything more than $3 for an application for my iPhone. Something that someone has created, yet it is distributed for free (with Apple Developer Membership) and the developer doesn't have to do anything.

We aren't talking about people making a physical product - something like a chair, that for them to sell more than one they have to create more than one. We're talking about software that you make one, and it is just duplicated for however many people want to buy it.
I originally thought your 99 cents reply was tongue-in-cheek. I didn't realize you were dead serious. But I agree with you, completely. I mean what's up with Adobe charging $1800 for a software suite you can just download from the website? Or Apple charging $79 for iWork when it's also available as a download from the website. It's ridiculous. Developers setting a high price for their products. The cheaper it is, the more it sells. Just ask EA. They dropped the price of Tetris from $10 to $5 and it's dropped from 3 to 13 in the top paid app rankings. And it's not even 99 cents. You don't need to say anymore than that. Point proved.

[Consultant]

Doesn't Microsoft make the XBox 360 and it's underlying OS?

Yes.

xBox and the Zune are examples of products in which MS "designed" both the hardware and software. Both are financial failures.

In addition HD-DVD failed because HD-DVD players are mini-pcs running modified extra DRM version of MS windows.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC.html

[Kar98]

A company called Sygic demonstrated a full featured turn-by-turn GPS application for the iPhone and is planning on submitting it to the App Store

Bullcrap. That's a mildly skinned TomTom 7 or 8. In other words, a fake.

[diamond.g]

Ok. How come g-map is in the appstore then?

http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx

How is this any different to tom and co?

Major difference at first glance? Two separate apps for all the US and it is just the US. It doesn't include Canada or Mexico like most other GPS's do. Plus it seems to be missing voice guidance (or at least it isn't mentioned) or text to speech for street names (not that I would expect that in $20 software).

Apple needs to lift the 1GB limit...

[Kar98]

Ok. How come g-map is in the appstore then?

http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx

How is this any different to tom and co?


2. Does G-Map support real time Guidance? Such as Turn-by-Turn arrow and Voice prompt?
Currently, our application doesn't support turn by turn guidance.

[dejo]

Ok. How come g-map is in the appstore then?

http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx

How is this any different to tom and co?

From their FAQ (http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/FAQs/tabid/2497/Default.aspx#02):
2. Does G-Map support real time Guidance? Such as Turn-by-Turn arrow and Voice prompt?
Currently, our application doesn't support turn by turn guidance including voice prompt. This is based on APPLE's strict strategy which prohibits any real time guidance. Once there’s any positive change in APPLE strategy, we'll support this function. Once there’s any positive change in APPLE strategy, we'll apply this function technically with no fail as well as free updates for this.

[preservative]

Major difference at first glance? Two separate apps for all the US and it is just the US. It doesn't include Canada or Mexico like most other GPS's do. Plus it seems to be missing voice guidance (or at least it isn't mentioned) or text to speech for street names (not that I would expect that in $20 software).

Apple needs to lift the 1GB limit...

Click the question mark ;)

G-map for Europe will be available within Q1 2009.

G-map for 15 States of U.S. and Canada will be available within Q1 2009.

For Central/South America, Asia and other countries, we're targeting to release
in Q2 2009.

The price of each application can be confirmed once they have been officially
put up in the App store.

The indicated size for free space for installation is an estimated figure,
and is subject to change.

I'd take tomtom any day. Doesn't this break the SDK thingy then?

[mpmchugh]

- A company called Sygic demonstrated (http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/02/18/eyes-sygic-turn-turn-gps-app-iphone/) a full featured turn-by-turn GPS application for the iPhone and is planning on submitting it to the App Store despite SDK terms that seem to specifically prohibit such applications.



I thought someone from Apple clarified that the only turn-by-turn apps prohibited are ones that attempt to use the Google Map data, but that as long as companies provide their own, they can do turn-by-turn apps. In essence, it's a Google restriction, not Apple's.

-mpm

[dejo]

I thought someone from Apple clarified that the only Turn-by-turn apps prohibited are ones that attempt to use the Google Map data...
Link?

[diamond.g]

From their FAQ (http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/FAQs/tabid/2497/Default.aspx#02):

Which is odd considering they say they have a turn by turn arrow on their features page.

[diamond.g]

Click the question mark ;)

G-map for Europe will be available within Q1 2009.

G-map for 15 States of U.S. and Canada will be available within Q1 2009.

For Central/South America, Asia and other countries, we're targeting to release
in Q2 2009.

The price of each application can be confirmed once they have been officially
put up in the App store.

The indicated size for free space for installation is an estimated figure,
and is subject to change.

I'd take tomtom any day. Doesn't this break the SDK thingy then?

Of course if I wanted to take a road trip from VA to Texas I am screwed cause TX isn't included on the East Coast version (really Apple 1GB??)

[apolloa]

Ok. How come g-map is in the appstore then?

http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx

How is this any different to tom and co?

Well everyone has already replied :D But I am SPECIFICALLY talking about Voice Turn by Turn guidance, otherwise it's a waste of time in the car, unless you like staring at the phone screen constantly instead of the road!! :eek:

[preservative]

Of course if I wanted to take a road trip from VA to Texas I am screwed cause TX isn't included on the East Coast version (really Apple 1GB??)

The 1gb will be to protect the service providers. Image when tomtom does get released. Goodbye carrier :P. The whole appstore idea seems a bit flawed and the fact users can't install apps via CD media etc. What idiot ever thought of that!

[Theaser]

Everyone is misunderstanding Ballmer. Microsoft has always been in favor of openness. They want your hardware open to run their software. That has always been Microsoft's business plan.


And yet Ballmer's quote is attacking Apple just because their business model is different? We really should call him Ballsacks or Baldhead.

I've lost my respect for the Microsoft company, next computer I'm getting is a Mac.

[diamond.g]

The 1gb will be to protect the service providers. Image when tomtom does get released. Goodbye carrier :P. The whole appstore idea seems a bit flawed and the fact users can't install apps via CD media etc. What idiot ever thought of that!

You can't download anything over 10 MB without WiFi anyways, we already download 1+ GB movies why should mapping software matter?

[jimmer-uk]

.

In addition HD-DVD failed because HD-DVD players are mini-pcs running modified extra DRM version of MS windows.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/2E6D9BB2-FE1B-4556-8389-67BD581FBCCC.html

Yes, that's just why it failed :rolleyes: Nothing like a two and a half year old article with massively innacurate facts ( just look at the pie chardt ) to base comments on. Your not fit to consult

I thought someone from Apple clarified that the only turn-by-turn apps prohibited are ones that attempt to use the Google Map data, but that as long as companies provide their own, they can do turn-by-turn apps. In essence, it's a Google restriction, not Apple's.

-mpm

I'm sure it's an Apple restriction. I believe there are only three sat nav mapping companies in the world, the rest just buy the rights off the big three TomTom being one of them. For some reason TomTom hasn't appeared on the iphone yet even though it was working over a year ago. These companies would love to get their navigation on the iphone, somethings blocking it and i'm sure it's not google....

[joemama]

Couldn't they still sell the app from their website, just not through the App store?

[Kilamite]

Couldn't they still sell the app from their website, just not through the App store?

Then only people with Jailbroken phones could get it..

[preservative]

You can't download anything over 10 MB without WiFi anyways, we already download 1+ GB movies why should mapping software matter?

Forgot about that. That was a good idea! Really. This whole icripple sucks :mad:

[theBB]

Of course if I wanted to take a road trip from VA to Texas I am screwed cause TX isn't included on the East Coast version (really Apple 1GB??)
My TomTom includes all of US into 1GB. So, apparently yes, 1GB limit is large enough if you know how to program efficiently.

That is what gets Flash or MS products into trouble. They seem to assume a vast amount of hardware resources, so they don't feel the need to make their apps use less memory or CPU.

[smokeonit]

the fonts in the GPS app is not an apple fonts! this smells fishy! it looks like a PeeCee or windows mobile app, absolutely not apple like!!!

[Kilamite]

the fonts in the GPS app is not an apple fonts! this smells fishy! it looks like a PeeCee or windows mobile app, absolutely not apple like!!!

Apple didn't make the GPS app. Not very good on reading are you? It's all detailed in the article..

[Rocketman]

"no single company can create all the hardware and software"
- Steve Ballmer, Microsoft

"I did therefore I can."
- Steve Jobs

Rocketman

"Do or do not, there is no try." - Yoda

[mdriftmeyer]

The last time that I checked, integration between hardware and software is what people want. Ballmer doesn't know what he's talking about.

He's reiterating Microsoft's mantra that what works best is a monopoly software vendor is good to feed hundreds/thousands of hardware vendors.

Microsoft thinks a one-to-many is healthy and that one-to-one is unhealthy.

What Linux wants is a many-to-many where the many on the left is actually a fractured one with many children free to modify the one, so long as the one's basic kernel is in tact.

[CaptainCannabis]

What?! The AppStore prohibits applications such as a GPS?

Steve... PLEASE! WTF?! I'm really starting to hate your company...:mad:

[NiteWaves77]

I agree with Ballmer: choice is the cornerstone of the free market. Millions of smartphone customers have chosen to reject the Windows Mobile platform. Even Mary-Jo Foley, who has a picture of Ballmer taped to her bedroom ceiling, can't deny it.

Why Ballmer has any credibility in the tech sector anymore is beyond me. I light a candle for Microsoft every night before bed.

[twoodcc]

only ballmer would say crap like that. "no company can make hardware and software"? please, how long has apple been doing it?

[*LTD*]

I agree with Ballmer: choice is the cornerstone of the free market. Millions of smartphone customers have chosen to reject the Windows Mobile platform. Even Mary-Jo Foley, who has a picture of Ballmer taped to her bedroom ceiling, can't deny it.

Why Ballmer has any credibility in the tech sector anymore is beyond me. I light a candle for Microsoft every night before bed.


+1

Agreed. WinMo is pretty pathetic. It's a "me-too" reaction to Apple.

[*LTD*]

only ballmer would say crap like that. "no company can make hardware and software"? please, how long has apple been doing it?

Since '84. And still showing the industry how it's done. ;)

[IJ Reilly]

Even Mary-Jo Foley, who has a picture of Ballmer taped to her bedroom ceiling, can't deny it.

Anyone who thinks that Mary Jo Foley is a Microsoft apologist hasn't been reading Mary Jo Foley's columns for very long.

[joemama]

Then only people with Jailbroken phones could get it..

Why? Is there no way to install the app then?

[dernhelm]

Ballmer, you two-faced scumbag. You have NEVER been a fan of "openness" so for you to comment that 'openness is good' is beyond irony.

I kept thinking - does this mean they will make windows mobile open source?
:rolleyes:

The iPhone has a development toolkit, and ANYONE can make applications for it. How is that less open that windows based smart phones?

Most everyone's smart phone has some level of "closedness" to it. The thing bugging Ballmer is that Microsoft isn't holding the keys this time. Apple paid the R&D to develop the iPhone, they should be able to reap the rewards of it.

[Theophany]

"I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software," he said. "Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice."

The pot calls the kettle black. Apple run a successful business by creating the hardware and the software. Ballmer calling for 'openness' is a freaking joke, maybe when he puts his money where his oversized and under-controlled craw is and opens up Windows' code, I'll take monkey boy somewhat seriously. :rolleyes:

[jimmer-uk]

This thread has once again descended into a typical slag fest....one wonders if macrumors enjoys stirring the pot. There's no debate, i'm out

[Arisian]

i feel like this conversation is getting away from the main point:

I want to fist fight steve Ballmer

[kdarling]

Some want integration between hardware and software.

Others want choice in hardware, software and price.

That's why no one integration model will ever take over the market.

Adults know the world is composed of shades of gray, not black and white answers.

[iPhoneJoe]

I wish apple would just let a turn by turn app through. maybe this will be the first I doubt it though

[cnorth3]

TomTom did it as well, but apple said there is a software problem to it. Wasn't politics involved there, oh no. My point is that developers can create great products, which work just fine but on long run can affect Apple core apps or generally stability of iPhone. Those developers don't have tools to check that out but Apple have. Remember that app has to go through Apple hands first before appear in app store. They don't just sit there and watch how pretty app is, they test it as well.

Am I totally off base in thinking that the problem with turn-by-turn GPS is that third party aps aren't supposed to run in the background, therefore the device couldn't be used for another purpose while it was navigating?

[Bruce Oksol]

Are "they" even selling Zunes any more. I've completely lost track of the Zune. You have to go through so many pages on Amazon.com to get past the iPod selection that I haven't seen the Zune. Maybe no longer sold.


I remember Ballmer laughing at iPhone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

[DoubleU]

Am I totally off base in thinking that the problem with turn-by-turn GPS is that third party aps aren't supposed to run in the background, therefore the device couldn't be used for another purpose while it was navigating?

If that's the case, why would I want a turn-by-turn GPS running in the background; surely I'd only want it in the foreground.

[eleven59]

don't forget those same people that won't pay more than .99 for any app also want a lite version.. for free!! You all shouldn't even be allowed to buy things. What would a lite version of turn by turn be anyway? just enough directions to the gas station? 1 mile out of a 30 mile trip?

[*LTD*]

Are "they" even selling Zunes any more. I've completely lost track of the Zune. You have to go through so many pages on Amazon.com to get past the iPod selection that I haven't seen the Zune. Maybe no longer sold.


I remember Ballmer laughing at iPhone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo

You mean this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ccWL9cir0

It's funny because it's true. Sadly, the Zune is MS' red-headed stepchild. It's about time to bury it. Or at least update it so it doesn't trick users into thinking it's still 2005.

[Yvan256]

You mean this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ccWL9cir0

It's funny because it's true. Sadly, the Zune is MS' red-headed stepchild. It's about time to bury it. Or at least update it so it doesn't trick users into thinking it's still 2005.

Even the latest episode of Family Guy talks about iPod vs Zune (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ccWL9cir0).

[ryanw]

Why hasn't anyone talked about this on here before?


G-Map West and G-Map East are available in the iPhone App Store!
http://www.xroadgps.com/Maps/GMapforiPhone/tabid/2463/Default.aspx


Full turn-by-turn GPS Navigation. Maps loaded on the phone, internet nor service required to get data on the cities.

This is crazy nobody had mentioned it before!

[dunni]

I will tell you the #1 reason the iPhone does not have turn-by-turn directions in its GPS: the BATTERY.

There is no car charger on the market today that can supply more power to the phone than it uses with GPS. Ask anyone with a car charger; if you use GPS, the battery still goes dead, even when it is plugged into your car. Until Apple fixes this issue, there will be no turn-by-turn directions.

You heard it here first!

[inkswamp]

Even Mary-Jo Foley, who has a picture of Ballmer taped to her bedroom ceiling, can't deny it.

I'm not sure whether to nominate that for the funniest or the creepiest MacRumors Post of the Year Award. :D

[macshill]

I'd like to see that sickening hypocrite try to COPY Offline Gmail or a Garmin turn-by-turn and have them get slapped with an "I'm sorry... that's our idea" patent and then bitch about "openess"; Apple, lately the this-is-OUR-idea (hands off!) people. Disgusting.

I like the one-way canal of "openess"... not!

[iMaggot]

Wow, i want the "turn-by-turn GPS" application ASAP!!!!

[preservative]

I will tell you the #1 reason the iPhone does not have turn-by-turn directions in its GPS: the BATTERY.

There is no car charger on the market today that can supply more power to the phone than it uses with GPS. Ask anyone with a car charger; if you use GPS, the battery still goes dead, even when it is plugged into your car. Until Apple fixes this issue, there will be no turn-by-turn directions.

You heard it here first!

All you need is a 1 dollar usb to lighter adapter.

[fewture]

When I bought my samsung i450 with Symbian OS, the best 'choice' I had was scouring around trying to work out which symbian websites were legit and which were dodgy scams, and then trying to find programs which were actually usable!

I find the 'choice' of the app store and the ease of finding stuff on it is 'choice' and far more open than any crap before it. Sure there are great open apps for the other phones and you can load anything you want on them, but the App store has shown how to really deliver choice.

And wait, didn't they just all release their own App stores? All scrambling to copy Apple's style of choice

(and I know what they mean by 'open' and 'choice, but what I am saying is even though iphone is seemingly more closed, there is more choice on it, or at least comparable choice)

[*LTD*]

When I bought my samsung i450 with Symbian OS, the best 'choice' I had was scouring around trying to work out which symbian websites were legit and which were dodgy scams, and then trying to find programs which were actually usable!

I find the 'choice' of the app store and the ease of finding stuff on it is 'choice' and far more open than any crap before it. Sure there are great open apps for the other phones and you can load anything you want on them, but the App store has shown how to really deliver choice.

And wait, didn't they just all release their own App stores? All scrambling to copy Apple's style of choice

(and I know what they mean by 'open' and 'choice, but what I am saying is even though iphone is seemingly more closed, there is more choice on it, or at least comparable choice)

Agreed.

What you're describing there (about "choice") is really what falls under the term "choiceless choices." It's a socio-political term commonly used in academia. You're certainly getting to the heart of the matter with your example. You get your choice, certainly, but it's from the bottom of the barrel. It's having to settle (if you're lucky) for the best of the worst. Not a whole lot of freedom there, now is there?

The Google Mobile App was recently released for Windows Mobile, for example. Compare that to its iPhone equivalent. I mean, we don't even need to get in to the fact that WinMo handles media like crap (among other things it handles in the same manner) - way behind iTunes on the iPhone or the iPod Touch - but a popular app like the Google Mobile App looks and feels like third class junk on WinMo. It's embarrassing.

I'm continually amazed at how Ballmer tries oh so very hard to peddle that backward (perpetually so) platform. It's shocking that the R&D at a company like Microsoft can fail so miserably on a consistent basis. MS doesn't take any risks. They copy, follow, and then license.

LTD :apple:

http://www.neowin.net/news/category/main

[kdarling]

The Google Mobile App was recently released for Windows Mobile, for example. Compare that to its iPhone equivalent.

What, because it sits on the Today screen, always available? Actually, I agree, it's not as cool as the new Yahoo search widget, which has voice to text search. And Microsoft's Live Search beats both, IMO.

A better comparison would be Google Maps, which is far more detailed on Windows Mobile in its search. Results include tabs for restaurant reviews, menus, and more. Plus you can easily navigate with keys or touch between results, instead of having to stab at each little pin. Most importantly, because of multitasking, you can click the web links for outside information without closing the search app.

[kdarling]

And wait, didn't they just all release their own App stores? All scrambling to copy Apple's style of choice

Not quite. They're ADDING Apple's style to all the other ones they already have.

If they were copying, they'd cripple their phones to only allow apps from their own store (oh wait, isnt' that one of those walled gardens that Jobs used to make fun of about carriers?)... and then petition the government to make sure people couldn't legally hack their way around the limitation.

[diamond.g]

What, because it sits on the Today screen, always available? Actually, I agree, it's not as cool as the new Yahoo search widget, which has voice to text search. And Microsoft's Live Search beats both, IMO.

A better comparison would be Google Maps, which is far more detailed on Windows Mobile in its search. Results include tabs for restaurant reviews, menus, and more. Plus you can easily navigate with keys or touch between results, instead of having to stab at each little pin. Most importantly, because of multitasking, you can click the web links for outside information without closing the search app.

Too cluttered. I like Apple telling me what kind of results should be returned. If I want more information I will download another app that gets me that information.

[*LTD*]

Not quite. They're ADDING Apple's style to all the other ones they already have.

If they were copying, they'd cripple their phones to only allow apps from their own store (oh wait, isnt' that one of those walled gardens that Jobs used to make fun of about carriers?)... and then petition the government to make sure people couldn't legally hack their way around the limitation.

Except that Apple's Store model:

1) Is the best looking
2) Is the easiest to use and navigate
3) Is actually something people *want* to use (Apple's good at this)
4) Is what's most attractive to developers (which completes the circle. Go to #1 and repeat cycle.)

LTD :apple:

http://www.neowin.net/news/category/main

[subsonix]

It comes as no surprise that Steve Balmer has that view, that is their business model after all. Oh, wait. That´s not true for the xbox.

[shivapashupati]

Microsoft's Steve Ballmer, specifically, had this to say:
"I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software," he said. "Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice."

And, especially in view of Microsoft's openness as regards the hardware, it is also the foundation of mediocrity!

[kdarling]

Except that Apple's Store model:
1) Is the best looking
2) Is the easiest to use and navigate

Fully agree.

3) Is actually something people *want* to use (Apple's good at this)

For a while, anyway.

4) Is what's most attractive to developers (which completes the circle. Go to #1 and repeat cycle.)

Except perhaps for companies like TomTom, who prefer not to share royalties.

And, especially in view of Microsoft's openness as regards the hardware, it is also the foundation of mediocrity!

Hardware wise, the Toshiba TG01, HTC Touch HD and Touch 2, and others make the iPhone look mediocre in comparison.

[Sehnsucht]

Microsoft's Steve Ballmer, specifically, had this to say:

"I agree that no single company can create all the hardware and software," he said. "Openness is central because it's the foundation of choice."


Steve Ballmer =
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/Devil.png

:D

[rez07]

Bullcrap. That's a mildly skinned TomTom 7 or 8. In other words, a fake.

sygic has comercial sofware running on Windows MObile and Symbian devices...i myself used it on a Sony Ericsson Symbian UIQ3 device before i got the iphone...

so...don´t be ignorant calling fake to something you don´t know nothing about