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MacBytes
Mar 25, 2004, 10:37 AM
Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple to make iPod mini worldwide in July (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040325113758)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

Wonder Boy
Mar 25, 2004, 10:47 AM
damn you motorola!!! :D :D :D

Wendy_Rebecca
Mar 25, 2004, 10:47 AM
Here we go again.

ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to ask...who's responsible for Materials Planning at Apple? I suggested Bozo the clown before, but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!

NinjaMonkey
Mar 25, 2004, 10:50 AM
Here we go again.

ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to ask...who's responsible for Materials Planning at Apple? I suggested Bozo the clown before, but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!

lol Apple does have issues with new products. But I also don't think that even Apple expected the Mini to be so popular. Considering all the people who were bashing it in January, I am a little surprised it is doing so well.

macdong
Mar 25, 2004, 10:50 AM
aww man, i just recommended iPod Mini to all my high school classmates in Taiwan.

gwuMACaddict
Mar 25, 2004, 10:50 AM
how many darn threads do we need about this!? :rolleyes:

LEgregius
Mar 25, 2004, 10:51 AM
damn you motorola!!! :D :D :D

So it's a bad thing that the iPod mini is selling so well that they can't keep enough in stock? I'm guessing that's a Good Thing<SMALL><SUP>TM</SUP></SMALL>, at least for Apple. Not for people who want to buy them.

Waragainstsleep
Mar 25, 2004, 10:58 AM
It does mean Apple will miss out on some revenue that they could otherwise have had sooner.

Wonder Boy
Mar 25, 2004, 11:00 AM
So it's a bad thing that the iPod mini is selling so well that they can't keep enough in stock? I'm guessing that's a Good Thing<SMALL><SUP>TM</SUP></SMALL>, at least for Apple. Not for people who want to buy them.

i suppose its a good thing.

my comment was sarcastic in the sense for the past ~4 years, every delay has been blamed on motorola. i thought it would be funny to point the finger at motorola yet again despite the fact they had nothing to do with this delay.

whookam
Mar 25, 2004, 11:01 AM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!

robbieduncan
Mar 25, 2004, 11:02 AM
So it's a bad thing that the iPod mini is selling so well that they can't keep enough in stock? I'm guessing that's a Good Thing<SMALL><SUP>TM</SUP></SMALL>, at least for Apple. Not for people who want to buy them.


HTML posting does not work here. You can do what you want though. All UBB tags are enclosed in square brackets. So this does a TM :
[sup ]TM[/sup ]

Or at least it's meant to. Doesn't seem to work for some reason...

montex
Mar 25, 2004, 11:03 AM
Does this sound familiar? Apple announces a breakthru product and releases it a month or so after the announcement. Then (surprise!) demand is much higher than they ever could have imagined and won't be able to make the product fast enough, forcing customer to wait weeks or even months to fulfill their orders.

How many times does this have to happen before someone at Apple (uh, Steve?) says to the veep in charge of production "You're fired!". Apple is in the business of selling, right? Why do they always seem to sell themselves short when they could be reeling in some serious bank? There must be a bean counter at Apple that has no confidence in their products and constrains production accodingly. I mean, c'mon guys haven't you gotten over the IIvx yet?

Seriously, this is the one thing about Apple that drives me up a wall!

php
Mar 25, 2004, 11:06 AM
This makes me glad I'm not an Apple shareholder, because Apple's next quarter will be dismal. There are delays now in shipping the iPod Mini, the next generation G5 towers and new displays and the G5 Powerbooks. I'd like to know what Apple is selling that will make them a profit, maybe digital music downloads, but I really doubt that's as profitable as new hardware.
I do music production and I need a very fast, portable solution. The current Powerbooks are a joke in this regard. I've been using Macs since 1986 (and Apple products much before that) and right now, a new Sony VAIO Centrino notebook is starting to look real good. Apple better get their act together soon or I'm sure there will be more "switchers" over to the PC platform. We need new Apple hardware soon!

morkintosh
Mar 25, 2004, 11:07 AM
Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple to make iPod mini worldwide in July (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040325113758)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

and the big announcement for the week is ... product delays

maybe one of these days I'll get that dual 2.2 G5

MattG
Mar 25, 2004, 11:09 AM
Here we go again.

ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to ask...who's responsible for Materials Planning at Apple? I suggested Bozo the clown before, but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!Spongebob...definitely Spongebob

1macker1
Mar 25, 2004, 11:10 AM
**pointing and laughing** HAHAHAH

rjwill246
Mar 25, 2004, 11:10 AM
We need new Apple hardware soon![/B]

Only for the dendritic poor, ganglion challenged. The rest will happily wait for the best.

L2GX
Mar 25, 2004, 11:10 AM
My faithful 4 year old sony walkman started eating tapes last friday, cementing my resolution to get a Ipod mini in a week or two.

Now I'm of a mind to get a Zen and move my music collection to my pc.

anubis
Mar 25, 2004, 11:12 AM
:rolleyes: eh, quit whining. Apple is just playing it safe. What if demand for the ipod had been weaker than expected and apple had ordered one million more 1-inch hard drives than it needed. then they'd be in deep doodoo. if they underestimate the demand, then they won't more than a several-day inventory channel, which is very appealing to investors and drives stock prices up.

come on now, use your brain before you just whine about how you're inconvinenced.

besides, i ordered my ipod mini march 1st and got it a week ago. Doesn't seem to be much of a supply problem to me (at least in the us) ;)

Tulse
Mar 25, 2004, 11:13 AM
Given that Apple is apparently absorbing all production of the hard drives used in the mini, I'm not sure that Apple materials planning is to blame here. It sounds like the problem is Hitachi can't crank out the key component out fast enough.

In any case, it seems to me that having sale greatly outstrip predictions is a very good thing -- certainly better than the opposite. (I find it funny that folks first complained that the mini wouldn't sell, and now complain that Apple can't make enough of them.)

Wonder Boy
Mar 25, 2004, 11:13 AM
and the big announcement for the week is ... product delays

maybe one of these days I'll get that dual 2.2 G5

are you really going to see a huge difference from a dual 2 g5? i assume other internals will be updated, but will a simple .2 ghz update show a major increase in speedt be a major change?

dornball
Mar 25, 2004, 11:14 AM
Does this sound familiar? Apple announces a breakthru product and releases it a month or so after the announcement. Then (surprise!) demand is much higher than they ever could have imagined and won't be able to make the product fast enough, forcing customer to wait weeks or even months to fulfill their orders.

How many times does this have to happen before someone at Apple (uh, Steve?) says to the veep in charge of production "You're fired!". Apple is in the business of selling, right? Why do they always seem to sell themselves short when they could be reeling in some serious bank?

Seriously, this is the one thing about Apple that drives me up a wall!

i couldn't agree more.
i know it's not possible to account for every variable every time, but it seems like every time now when they announce a new product or even a revision, that the consumer gets slapped with the 5-7 weeks ship date, and then gets the email 5-7 weeks later that "due to unforeseen reasons your product will be delayed."

why don't they wait and announce things when they have sufficient supplies to ship at least some units immediately? i feel that i great number of people are quite frustarted about this issue with apple.

-dornball

the_mole1314
Mar 25, 2004, 11:14 AM
Spongebob...definitely Spongebob

I don't know, thos Fairly Odd Parents were just arrested on the longhorn delay, they could be behind this too.... :rolleyes:

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 11:15 AM
Who didn't see this coming? Anyone? Anyone?

Call me a troll, but come on.. Who doees Apple really have to blame for a huge chunk of their current situation?

You can set your watch to product, shipping, upgrade delays. :rolleyes:

morkintosh
Mar 25, 2004, 11:16 AM
are you really going to see a huge difference from a dual 2 g5? i assume other internals will be updated, but will a simple .2 ghz update show a major increase in speedt be a major change?

no: in all likelihood I won't really notice the increase, but if I'm dropping 7K on 3 of them I might as well get as much bang for my buck as possible.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 11:16 AM
I do music production and I need a very fast, portable solution. The current Powerbooks are a joke in this regard. I've been using Macs since 1986 (and Apple products much before that) and right now, a new Sony VAIO Centrino notebook is starting to look real good. Apple better get their act together soon or I'm sure there will be more "switchers" over to the PC platform. We need new Apple hardware soon!

i won't dispute your point that hardware needs an update, but please don't bother with "threat to switch to PC/windows" stuff. get what you need and if vaio is it, then please get it. no need to tell us how long you've been using apple, etc. either. apple being slow with hardware updates isn't anything new. if you've been with apple since 1986, i'm sure you've experienced many delayed updates before - yet you still stuck by, right?

ktrout
Mar 25, 2004, 11:16 AM
Does this sound familiar? Apple announces a breakthru product and releases it a month or so after the announcement. Then (surprise!) demand is much higher than they ever could have imagined and won't be able to make the product fast enough, forcing customer to wait weeks or even months to fulfill their orders.

How many times does this have to happen before someone at Apple (uh, Steve?) says to the veep in charge of production "You're fired!". Apple is in the business of selling, right? Why do they always seem to sell themselves short when they could be reeling in some serious bank? There must be a bean counter at Apple that has no confidence in their products and constrains production accodingly. I mean, c'mon guys haven't you gotten over the IIvx yet?

Seriously, this is the one thing about Apple that drives me up a wall!

Apple is certainly doing better than The Street gives them credit for, but it isn't rolling in dough. I don't think Apple can afford to take the chance that a million unsold miniPods will end up as landfill. (http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp) It isn't a question of confidence. MS is in a position where even a major screw-up won't hurt them for long (see, for example, MS Bob (http://toastytech.com/guis/bob2.html)). Apple isn't.

Fuchal
Mar 25, 2004, 11:17 AM
It does mean Apple will miss out on some revenue that they could otherwise have had sooner.

Ummm.. no... they ARE getting their revenue. Just from US customers. :P

Personally I don't see how this can be rated negative. Its excellent if anything.

mrsebastian
Mar 25, 2004, 11:17 AM
This makes me glad I'm not an Apple shareholder, because Apple's next quarter will be dismal. There are delays now in shipping the iPod Mini, the next generation G5 towers and new displays and the G5 Powerbooks. I'd like to know what Apple is selling that will make them a profit, maybe digital music downloads, but I really doubt that's as profitable as new hardware...

i am a shareholder and it drives me nuts! you get everyone drooling over your products with check book in hand, but there are always product delays :mad: like wendy_rebecca said earlier, we need someone at apple to take care of this [bleep]! i'm voting for homer simpson, just tell him he'll get a donut or beer per mini that's shipped on time.

garybooberry
Mar 25, 2004, 11:18 AM
PowerMac G5 Revision B's available spring 2007!!!

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 11:18 AM
Um, I think that was sarcasm.. Like, we'll wait 3 years and all we'll get is the .2Mhz bump (a' la' Motorola)



are you really going to see a huge difference from a dual 2 g5? i assume other internals will be updated, but will a simple .2 ghz update show a major increase in speedt be a major change?

AirUncleP
Mar 25, 2004, 11:18 AM
Remember all the " They're too expensive, No will buy them." posts. Well it looks like a lot of people will buy them at $249. I won't....but a lot people will.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 11:19 AM
My faithful 4 year old sony walkman started eating tapes last friday, cementing my resolution to get a Ipod mini in a week or two.

Now I'm of a mind to get a Zen and move my music collection to my pc.

right, regular iPod isn't an option? last i saw, Zen isn't much smaller than the iPod. :rolleyes:

eSnow
Mar 25, 2004, 11:21 AM
Wow, thanks a lot Apple. Not only are we not getting any location-based Sherlock stuff, iPhoto printing 1.5 years late, no iTMS, and each and every product for 25% more - now we are being pushed back 3 month.

This stinks. Big time. Hope the ****ing thing is a failure.

morkintosh
Mar 25, 2004, 11:22 AM
Um, I think that was sarcasm.. Like, we'll wait 3 years and all we'll get is the .2Mhz bump (a' la' Motorola)

SAR CAS'IM ... I am unfamiliar with this term. Is it similar to: "oh sure, we'll update those displays any day now"?

Wonder Boy
Mar 25, 2004, 11:23 AM
no: in all likelihood I won't really notice the increase, but if I'm dropping 7K on 3 of them I might as well get as much bang for my buck as possible.

agreed. good luck with those.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 11:25 AM
well, it sucks that the production is slow, even if it's no apple's "fault." i'd have to say, since 1" HD is a relatively new technology, i imagine its production isn't quite mature yet. a sudden influx of demand can cause more problems than usual.

as long as apple keeps on pushing products using new and cutting edge technology, i expect delays to continue to happen as long as those new products are "hot." (which is a good thing...)

i guess even apple couldn't foresee just how widely popular iPod Mini would be... that's also a good thing for the company, but sucks for the customers.

php
Mar 25, 2004, 11:26 AM
Only for the dendritic poor, ganglion challenged. The rest will happily wait for the best.

That's the point. I have work that needs to be done and I need power now, not six months to a year from now. I don't buy the argument that Windows/PCs are inferior to Macs at this point. Windows XP may not be OS X, but it is very reliable from my experience. I have a dual processor G4 tower, 1GB RAM, running OS 10.3.3 and I've seen the difference in performance first hand. A friend of mine runs the same audio and music production software on his $600 home-built PC and it just leaves my Mac in the dust. And it's not just by a small margin, the performance difference is extreme. I'm constantly needing to compromise just to get things done because of the lack of power of my Mac. I don't think that people looking to switch to a PC are brain deficient, on the contrary, they may be smarter than us brainwashed Mac fanatics.

morkintosh
Mar 25, 2004, 11:27 AM
no: in all likelihood I won't really notice the increase, but if I'm dropping 7K on 3 of them I might as well get as much bang for my buck as possible.

EDIT: maybe it'd be faster if I just bought a dell and then reverse engineered OS X to get it to compile on the x86 architecture ... those 3.3GhZ Pentium IVs look mighty fast!

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 11:28 AM
This stinks. Big time. Hope the ****ing thing is a failure.

it does stink. but if "****ing thing is a failure", then this wouldn't have happened in the first place. ;)

applemacdude
Mar 25, 2004, 11:31 AM
If only the mini came in black or red :(

elgruga
Mar 25, 2004, 11:31 AM
Its a shame that they cant produce more right now, but as long as the market holds, and it almosts certainly will, then this is a cast-iron solid opportunity for Apple to spread their brand far and wide.
If, by chance, Apple is also announcing new machines in the summer, then that would further increase market share.

Its also about the shift in the way people are listening to music, and about the way they are buying it. Apple is in a power position here.

For those who complain that they are going to go to PC, etc. etc. Why not just but a regular ipod?

These minis are mostly being bought by people new to Apple, not by Apple 'regulars'.
Thats a good thing.

I dont see how this is a negative......

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 11:31 AM
That's the point. I have work that needs to be done and I need power now, not six months to a year from now. I don't buy the argument that Windows/PCs are inferior to Macs at this point. Windows XP may not be OS X, but it is very reliable from my experience. I have a dual processor G4 tower, 1GB RAM, running OS 10.3.3 and I've seen the difference in performance first hand. A friend of mine runs the same audio and music production software on his $600 home-built PC and it just leaves my Mac in the dust. And it's not just by a small margin, the performance difference is extreme. I'm constantly needing to compromise just to get things done because of the lack of power of my Mac. I don't think that people looking to switch to a PC are brain deficient, on the contrary, they may be smarter than us brainwashed Mac fanatics.

well, in such a case, you really should switch back, especially if you personally find XP to be ok. (i don't but that's just me.) any new update of PB won't likely match your dual G4. (even if it's a single G5.) if dual G4 tower is not getting it done for you now, then the next line of PB won't either, so you might as well cut your loss and buy a PC laptop now.

MCCFR
Mar 25, 2004, 11:31 AM
iPod mini a success because of styling and form factor.

Form factor driven by disk drive form factor
Two disk drives in class: Hitachi or Cornice
Cornice an unproven start-up and committed to Lyra and others
Hitachi making as many drives as possible - allegedly building an additional production facility
Apple using all that Hitachi can produce
Apple priced iPod mini 'high' so as to choke demand.
What did you want? An iPod mini priced at $299.00 so that we could then moan about how it's the same price as iPod maxi?
Or maybe Apple should run interviews for prospective owners to make sure they're "appropriate" people.

Seriously people (esp. eSnow), get a sense of perspective!

mrsebastian
Mar 25, 2004, 11:33 AM
...This stinks. Big time. Hope the ****ing thing is a failure.

i wouldn't go that far... i just wish apple would plan for these things. yeah, you don't wanna make 2 million of these things and end up getting stuck with half of 'em, but you can have the plant ready to bang these things out like hotcakes.

macridah
Mar 25, 2004, 11:35 AM
imagine if Apple sold it [iPod mini] for $199 ... They would of lost out on all that revenue and it for sure would of been sold out much sooner.

Selling their iPod mini at $250 turned out to be a good move

Parikh1234
Mar 25, 2004, 11:36 AM
i wouldn't go that far... i just wish apple would plan for these things. yeah, you don't wanna make 2 million of these things and end up getting stuck with half of 'em, but you can have the plant ready to bang these things out like hotcakes.


yeah i agree. I think its better for apple to be short and delay it, then to have a billion of these things just lying around and then they have to sell them for cheap to break even or lose money. It pisses me off a little as a shareholder and someone waiting for both pm and pb updates, but i can understand why apple would do something like this.

jocknerd
Mar 25, 2004, 11:38 AM
So it's a bad thing that the iPod mini is selling so well that they can't keep enough in stock? I'm guessing that's a Good Thing<SMALL><SUP>TM</SUP></SMALL>, at least for Apple. Not for people who want to buy them.

Why can't they make enough of anything?

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 11:39 AM
My faithful 4 year old sony walkman started eating tapes last friday, cementing my resolution to get a Ipod mini in a week or two.

Now I'm of a mind to get a Zen and move my music collection to my pc.
Comments like this amaze me.

So you have to wait a little while to get the device that you want. Big deal. (My guess is that six months from now, you will have totally forgotten the short wait and be very happy with your new mini iPod.)

However, instead of waiting a short while, you are looking to completely change the way you operate by moving your music to a PC, and going with a much less integrated solution. (One that more than likely you won't be happy with compared to what you really wanted which was a mini iPod.)

All this because you are unwilling to wait 2-3 months.

Simply amazing!

Sushi

jocknerd
Mar 25, 2004, 11:41 AM
imagine if Apple sold it [iPod mini] for $199 ... They would of lost out on all that revenue and it for sure would of been sold out much sooner.

Selling their iPod mini at $250 turned out to be a good move

Yeah it was a good move for Apple. But time will tell if the $249 is the right price. Initial buyers are not price conscious anyway. Maybe Apple knew the supply was low.

QCassidy352
Mar 25, 2004, 11:41 AM
guys, this isn't apple's fault. The HD manufacturer isn't making 1" HDs fast enough to meet demand. Probably because they're not able to.

Demand has outstripped supply by a considerable margin. What would you have apple do, increase the mini's price until demand comes down to the level of supply? Or maybe not have released the mini for another 2 months so that they could meet all demand instantly?

It's not some plot to screw you, and it's not even bad planning. No one could have anticipated this demand, and even if they had, the only options would have been delaying the release to build up stock of minis (bad idea) or this. They can't produce minis any faster than they get those hard drives.

eSnow
Mar 25, 2004, 11:47 AM
What did you want? An iPod mini priced at $299.00 so that we could then moan about how it's the same price as iPod maxi?
Seriously people (esp. eSnow), get a sense of perspective!

All I want is once, only once, for Apple to not hold back a product here in Europe. About each company is capable of launching worldwide, but no, not Apple. They have a long history of selling products with inferior specs (iMac CPUs) here, not selling products at all, or delaying stuff.

This is not the freaking 3rd world here - other manufacturers offer top-notch service. I don't know what's keeping me from buying there.

Bendit
Mar 25, 2004, 11:49 AM
guys, this isn't apple's fault. The HD manufacturer isn't making 1" HDs fast enough to meet demand. Probably because they're not able to.

Demand has outstripped supply by a considerable margin. What would you have apple do, increase the mini's price until demand comes down to the level of supply? Or maybe not have released the mini for another 2 months so that they could meet all demand instantly?

It's not some plot to screw you, and it's not even bad planning. No one could have anticipated this demand, and even if they had, the only options would have been delaying the release to build up stock of minis (bad idea) or this. They can't produce minis any faster than they get those hard drives.

Of course it's Apple's fault. Who chose the supplier? Who decides to go with a supplier without finding out what rate they can push them out? This is their fault. They knew they would have a hard time getting these new small hard drives, they are brand new and everyone is fighting for them! Not just Apple.

It's a decision Apple made - it's their fault.

I am not "mad" at Apple or anything, I just think it's stupid to always put the blame on other companies for Apple's stupid decisions.

gensor
Mar 25, 2004, 11:49 AM
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/040324/tech_japan_hitachi_2.html

StudioGuy
Mar 25, 2004, 11:50 AM
but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!

Nah, the Sponge is smarter than that. My vote's on "Patrick". :D

Geesh, my kids certainly watch too much Nick.... :o

kenaustus
Mar 25, 2004, 11:53 AM
Let's fact it, Apple was reasonably optimistic about sales even at $249 or they wouldn't have released the mini. The boards went nuts saying it would never sell. Both were wrong, but the boards were a lot further off. If anyone on the board bashing the price was in charge of production the problem would be significantly worse.

The fact that Apple is taking just about all the production of the drives is a pretty clear indication that they responded to customer demand rather fast - now we have to wait for the drive maker to ramp up production. Like a lot of product releases read "problems with production sufficient of parts"

i also have a feeling that the PM is delayed for the same reason and it is probably a mother board or graphics card delivery problem. Apple isn't going to sit on either the PM or a G5 iMac - especially with sales in these ranges declining.

Also remember that they (& IBM) are moving on both hardware and software far better than Intel and MS.

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 11:53 AM
Ahhh, but it IS Apple's fault for going with a single supplier (like the did with Motorola)

If you've only got one company to make your whizz-bang thingie, and that company can't come through, you're up the creek..

You'd think Apple would have either had multiple suppliers (you think they'd have learned by now) or waited until there was suffient supply of the drives to announce a new product.... BUT, since they've got zip on the horizon for puters, they're trying to milk the whole ipod thing for all it's worth, so I'm glad it bit them in the ass.

Make some computers, and we'll buy them.

guys, this isn't apple's fault. The HD manufacturer isn't making 1" HDs fast enough to meet demand. Probably because they're not able to.

Demand has outstripped supply by a considerable margin. What would you have apple do, increase the mini's price until demand comes down to the level of supply? Or maybe not have released the mini for another 2 months so that they could meet all demand instantly?

It's not some plot to screw you, and it's not even bad planning. No one could have anticipated this demand, and even if they had, the only options would have been delaying the release to build up stock of minis (bad idea) or this. They can't produce minis any faster than they get those hard drives.

mklos
Mar 25, 2004, 11:55 AM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!

You have a terrible argument there! Microshaft makes software, not hardware. Its 200 times easier to mass produce *****ty copies of Winblows XP than it is to assemble an iPod mini, or any other hardware product for that matter. You don't have to worry about other things like a shortage of hard drives, or LCD screens when you mass produce software. Now I'm not saying that there is a shortage of hard drives and LCD screens...I was just using that as an example.

Regalbegal
Mar 25, 2004, 11:57 AM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!

PM updates are coming soon, very soon..

Demand is through the roof, they can't help that.

If you can't get it, you can't get it. What sort of explination does she need? Unless she makes you go on ebay and sell your belongings to get her one. Then I suggest the problems isn't with the ipod not being available.

Micro$oft...don't even get my started on them.





on a different note..

Again, the people who said the apple and specifically, the mini would fail are starting to look like complete jackasses, good work nay sayers.

whookam
Mar 25, 2004, 11:57 AM
come on now, use your brain before you just whine about how you're inconvinenced.



To be honest i don't give a rats a$$ about apple's profit. I just want the best thing to do the job. Mac, PC or 'Other'. Why shouldn't we moan that we are being inconvenienced? If you had to wait 4 months for a pre-ordered piece of kit at an inflated price then you might me pretty pi$$ed off too.

If Apple want people to switch to macs/ipods then they should pull their finger out and make sure that they are available to buy!

eric_n_dfw
Mar 25, 2004, 11:57 AM
This will hurt AAPL stock price. This is not a one-time event for them. They have a very bad history of not being able to meet demand for new products. Wall Street sees this as poor planning, plain and simple.

A lot of non-Apple people who see the Mini and want one will go to the store, not be able to walk out with one and the salespeople will then show them the 4GB RIO for $50 less and they will buy that. Most of us here wouldn't settle for that, but I'd bet most people would.

whookam
Mar 25, 2004, 11:59 AM
If you can't get it, you can't get it. What sort of explination does she need? Unless she makes you go on ebay and sell your belongings to get her one. Then I suggest the problems isn't with the ipod not being available.



She's female. Rational thought doesn't come into it!

peterj1967
Mar 25, 2004, 12:01 PM
I think being short items is better then being over stocked. In the early 90s Apple was holding public auctions to clear inventory of systems they couldn't sell.

The good thing is that Apple makes a unique product, and they're the only people who make it, so people will wait if they want it. However, you keep people waiting long enough and they'll look elsewhere.

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:02 PM
Exactly. As per my post above, this slippage is Apple's fault for various reasons.

Most people don't care what they buy, so they go for what's available. Apple's stuff is rarely "available" when they're showing the demo product. So people just walk next door to Best Buy and get the other thing and say "hey, it was $50 cheaper too.. glad i didn't get the other one"

This will hurt AAPL stock price. This is not a one-time event for them. They have a very bad history of not being able to meet demand for new products. Wall Street sees this as poor planning, plain and simple.

A lot of non-Apple people who see the Mini and want one will go to the store, not be able to walk out with one and the salespeople will then show them the 4GB RIO for $50 less and they will buy that. Most of us here wouldn't settle for that, but I'd bet most people would.

vpalvarez
Mar 25, 2004, 12:02 PM
I hope this doesn't discourage people from buying the mini :(

mklos
Mar 25, 2004, 12:02 PM
Ahhh, but it IS Apple's fault for going with a single supplier (like the did with Motorola)

If you've only got one company to make your whizz-bang thingie, and that company can't come through, you're up the creek..

You'd think Apple would have either had multiple suppliers (you think they'd have learned by now) or waited until there was suffient supply of the drives to announce a new product.... BUT, since they've got zip on the horizon for puters, they're trying to milk the whole ipod thing for all it's worth, so I'm glad it bit them in the ass.

Make some computers, and we'll buy them.

On the other hand Apple didn't know it was going to sell this good. So if they would of had 2 manufacturers build this thing and then nobody bought then Apple would be right back to the days with the G4 Cube. They would have all of these iPod mini's and no buyers. Apple would be loosing a lot of money then, which hurts quarterly revenues, not that this delay won't.

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:03 PM
They can't buy it, because it's not available to buy. There's your answer.

I hope this doesn't discourage people from buying the mini :(

aftk2
Mar 25, 2004, 12:04 PM
My faithful 4 year old sony walkman started eating tapes last friday, cementing my resolution to get a Ipod mini in a week or two.

Now I'm of a mind to get a Zen and move my music collection to my pc.

I call troll. Why on earth would the fact that the iPod mini is delayed force you to buy a bigger, heavier mp3 player than even the 20gig or 40gig ipod?

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 12:04 PM
You'd think Apple would have either had multiple suppliers (you think they'd have learned by now) or waited until there was suffient supply of the drives to announce a new product....
Okay, since you seem to know the solution to Apple's problems.

Please enlighten us as to who also makes 1" HDs besides Hitachi. In other words, who else could supply these drives to Apple for their mini iPod?

Me thinks, that Hitachi is the only supplier at this point in time.

So Apple had a choice. Go with this new mini iPod with one supplier, or continue only with their existing iPod lineup.

Looks like many folks are happy that Apple pushed the envelope a little farther with the mini iPod.

As for me, while I would like to see Apple keep up with demand (perfect situation), I would rather see demand over supply than vice versa.

Sushi

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:04 PM
The "builder" of the mini is not the "supplier" of the drives.

The drives are supplied by hitachi.. Read.

On the other hand Apple didn't know it was going to sell this good. So if they would of had 2 manufacturers build this thing and then nobody bought then Apple would be right back to the days with the G4 Cube. They would have all of these iPod mini's and no buyers. Apple would be loosing a lot of money then, which hurts quarterly revenues, not that this delay won't.

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:06 PM
Cornice (www.corniceco.com/ )

:rolleyes:

Okay, since you seem to know the solution to Apple's problems.

Please enlighten us as to who also makes 1" HDs besides Hitachi. In other words, who else could supply these drives to Apple for their mini iPod?

Me thinks, that Hitachi is the only supplier at this point in time.

Sushi

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 12:07 PM
This will hurt AAPL stock price. This is not a one-time event for them. They have a very bad history of not being able to meet demand for new products. Wall Street sees this as poor planning, plain and simple.

A lot of non-Apple people who see the Mini and want one will go to the store, not be able to walk out with one and the salespeople will then show them the 4GB RIO for $50 less and they will buy that. Most of us here wouldn't settle for that, but I'd bet most people would.

i doubt AAPL will move that much. this may sound like a big deal to us, but analysts and the market will not care much if the $250 music device is delayed a few months or not. overall semiconductor/computer supply and demand market trend will have far bigger impact on the price of apple's stock than a music player delay.

4 GB Rio has been out for longer than iPod Mini - if people were in the market for a 4 GB mp3 player for $200, they would have bought it already.

let's face it, iPod Mini buyers want iPod Mini. NOT a 4 GB mp3 player for $200+. as far as most of them are concerned, they are not substitutes. if you were to ask "typical" owner of an iPod Mini (i.e. NOT tech savy MR lurkers) and offer to trade their iPod Mini with 4 GB Rio plus $100, most will probably turn it down knowing iPod Mini is in short supply.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 12:10 PM
Cornice (www.corniceco.com/ )

:rolleyes:

cornice is a venture capital funded start up. not a "supplier" in the same class as an established company like hitachi.

cornice also has deals with other mp3 player makers. so i don't think it was much of an option for apple.

sw1tcher
Mar 25, 2004, 12:12 PM
Since Apple has proven that they can sell these mini's like crazy, then maybe Apple will be able to go back to hitachi and ask for better volume pricing on the drives. That way, Apple can either lower the price to $199 (good for us :D) or keep the price at $249 and make even more money off of 'em (good for apple :) , bad for us :( , unless you're a stock holder :) )

Bernd
Mar 25, 2004, 12:13 PM
cNet has a story saying that Hitachi is having a hard time ramping up production of it's new 4GB 1" HD. It also has an Apple rep saying they have sold to date as much as it had expected to sell by the end of June!!! So relax a bit. Apple probably asked Hitachi to promis x amount per mounth and Hitach said no problem we can make x+25% and apple said Great no problem and now has a demand of x+30-40% and it just can't make more. Hitachi is expecting to increase supply in late june early july acording to cNet.cNet story (http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5179117.html?tag=nefd_top) I know it is no fun to wait for things but apple can't do much now. From what I have seen Apple went with the new Hitachi drive because it was so much smaller than any of the other 4GB 1" drives out there to make it fit in the small iPod mini case. If the drive realy is that much smaller then they could not multi source the drives and still have that small form factor.

MCCFR
Mar 25, 2004, 12:14 PM
Cornice (www.corniceco.com/ )

:rolleyes:

Not quite true!

Is that a 4GB unit enclosed in a CF interface? The answer is NO by the way.

So your answer is that Apple should have had one iPod for the Hitachi drive and one iPod for the Cornice drive.

Yes, that would have made manufacturing and support much easier.

I can't think why Apple don't offer you a job right now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Some_Big_Spoon
Mar 25, 2004, 12:14 PM
I get ya, but why not have options? Don't "we like to have options"? But then it seems like they rarely do and are stuck in these situations time and time again.


cornice is a venture capital funded start up. not a "supplier" in the same class as an established company like hitachi.

cornice also has deals with other mp3 player makers. so i don't think it was much of an option for apple.

SiliconAddict
Mar 25, 2004, 12:15 PM
She's female. Rational thought doesn't come into it!


:mad:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/twak.gif

sw1tcher
Mar 25, 2004, 12:15 PM
i doubt AAPL will move that much. this may sound like a big deal to us, but analysts and the market will not care much if the $250 music device is delayed a few months or not. overall semiconductor/computer supply and demand market trend will have far bigger impact on the price of apple's stock than a music player delay.

4 GB Rio has been out for longer than iPod Mini - if people were in the market for a 4 GB mp3 player for $200, they would have bought it already.

let's face it, iPod Mini buyers want iPod Mini. NOT a 4 GB mp3 player for $200+. as far as most of them are concerned, they are not substitutes. if you were to ask "typical" owner of an iPod Mini (i.e. NOT tech savy MR lurkers) and offer to trade their iPod Mini with 4 GB Rio plus $100, most will probably turn it down knowing iPod Mini is in short supply.

In fact, AAPL is up almost $1.00 last I checked. People must be happy with the news that AAPL can't keep up with demand. I know I am. It's good news, despite the fact that buyers will have to wait a bit longer.

eric_n_dfw
Mar 25, 2004, 12:16 PM
i doubt AAPL will move that much. this may sound like a big deal to us, but analysts and the market will not care much if the $250 music device is delayed a few months or not. overall semiconductor/computer supply and demand market trend will have far bigger impact on the price of apple's stock than a music player delay.

4 GB Rio has been out for longer than iPod Mini - if people were in the market for a 4 GB mp3 player for $200, they would have bought it already.

let's face it, iPod Mini buyers want iPod Mini. NOT a 4 GB mp3 player for $250. as far as most of them are concerned, they are not substitutes.This one event won't move the price, but I believe that this constant inability to predict demand is keeping the stock price down. It's a cumulative thing, IMO.

I think the Mini's popularity will benefit the RIO as most people (myself included) didn't even know they existed. (Those of us that don't really follow the portable music player scene, that is.)

Like I said, the buyers I'm talking about aren't the rabit Apple geeks we are - the RIO is "good enough" for most people. (Which, coincidentally, is how MS got to be where it is today; by being "good enough" and cheaper)

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 12:17 PM
Most people don't care what they buy, so they go for what's available. Apple's stuff is rarely "available" when they're showing the demo product. So people just walk next door to Best Buy and get the other thing and say "hey, it was $50 cheaper too.. glad i didn't get the other one"

as i wrote before, this isn't the case with iPod Mini. there have been other mp3 players with 2 or 4 GB capacities for cheaper before iPod Mini and they weren't going anywhere - at least not the degree iPod Mini is.

if someone wants an iPod Mini, he/she will wait for one to become available. about the only people who'll go to Best Buy and get an alternate player would be moms and dads who's been asked by their kids to get an iPod Mini. they find that it's sold out and gets "duped" into buying a Rio instead by Best Buy rep. they go home and their kids will simply say that's not what they wanted.

only people who will think "Rio is good enough" are those who know enough to be able tell the specs. most consumers will see that Rio is in a black case and doesn't look like iPod Mini - so that's not what they want. they couldn't care less that they have the same capacity.

eric_n_dfw
Mar 25, 2004, 12:18 PM
In fact, AAPL is up almost $1.00 last I checked. People must be happy with the news that AAPL can't keep up with demand. I know I am. It's good news, despite the fact that buyers will have to wait a bit longer.
The whole market is up on good consumer confidence news today.

Not being able to meet demand, for any sustained period of time is never good news.

Sure, it's good that the demand is there, but if you don't meet that demand quickly, someone else will. And if you keep doing this everytime you release something, you get the reputation for being inept.

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 12:19 PM
Cornice (www.corniceco.com/ )

:rolleyes:
Thanks.

But different type of HD I believe.

One is CF style. The other is surface mount. Different MOs.

Sushi

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 12:24 PM
The whole market is up on good consumer confidence news today.

Not being able to meet demand, for any sustained period of time is never good news.

Sure, it's good that the demand is there, but if you don't meet that demand quickly, someone else will. And if you keep doing this everytime you release something, you get the reputation for being inept.

no, not meeting demand is not good news, especially if it's constant. but my point was that these things don't necessarily translate to stock price movements. in fact, they hardly do, as you had pointed out, good consumer confidence news - very broad news not specific to apple at all - usually have far greater impact than very specific news on a very limited aspect of a company like apple.

mara
Mar 25, 2004, 12:35 PM
I received my iPod mini yesterday. And I live here in Finland... Well, now I´m going to have it much longer before iPod minis start to ship... :D

However if the player was introduced in January and it hits the shelves half year later... that is quite long time period in tch industry...

MCCFR
Mar 25, 2004, 12:40 PM
I get ya, but why not have options? Don't "we like to have options"? But then it seems like they rarely do and are stuck in these situations time and time again.

Without going back several years - to the late 80's/early 90's (a Quadra of some sort) - I can't remember the last time Apple suffered this problem at this scale.

And an option which requires two completely different products to be developed isn't an option, it's two different products!

Apple did the best it could to regulate demand by choking the market with a $249 price tag. The market said it didn't care. The next choice would be to call it $275, and up the cost of the iPod 15GB to $325 so as to create 'clear blue water'.

If you sell your target to June by the end of March, it means you've created a phenomenon - not that you just miscalculated a little. Maybe Apple shouldn't allow the press to write about iPod, or would people find something else to moan about.

I'm sorry to sound blunt, but this - iPod - is a phenomenon, and if anyone is old enough they'd remember that Sony had the same problem with the Walkman when it was first introduced; I remember this point because the incentives agency I was working for at the time couldn't get enough to satisfy demand for one of our client's projects.

singletrack
Mar 25, 2004, 12:42 PM
Not being able to meet demand, for any sustained period of time is never good news.

Sure, it's good that the demand is there, but if you don't meet that demand quickly, someone else will. And if you keep doing this everytime you release something, you get the reputation for being inept.


On the flipside...

Having full order books is always good news, especially if you can outstrip your supply by 3 months.

Using up 100% of the parts supply for the whole market (all the Hitachi 1" drives) makes it very difficult for the competition to enter the market unless another 1" drive supplier of Hitachi's size can ramp up.

whooleytoo
Mar 25, 2004, 12:44 PM
1) Apple doesn't like excess inventory. So underestimating demand is better than overestimating
2) Apple has a loyal core of customers who'll wait any length of time rather than buy from a competitor.
3) "Demand far exceeded supply" makes good press (except to analysts who look at missed revenue), much like the long queues outside Apple stores.

Tulse
Mar 25, 2004, 12:47 PM
Not being able to meet demand, for any sustained period of time is never good news.

Far better than not being able to get rid of supply.

I find the reactions here just bizarre -- Apple has a product that is selling beyond its wildest dreams, and well beyond the predictions of most folks here, and that's a bad thing? Wall Street is going to punish Apple because it's selling more minis than it can make? People who want the latest and greatest stylish bit of kit from Apple are suddenly going to give up and buy clunky machines that have been out for months?

Honestly, folks, that demand is so great is good news - it means that Apple has another monster hit on its hands. This is the kind of product that isn't interchangeable, so you're not going to see lost revenue, merely delayed, and the limited availability will, if anything, increase its desireability.

If you want to worry about something, worry about the nonexistent sales of the iMac.

ITR 81
Mar 25, 2004, 12:52 PM
Ahhh, but it IS Apple's fault for going with a single supplier (like the did with Motorola)

If you've only got one company to make your whizz-bang thingie, and that company can't come through, you're up the creek..

You'd think Apple would have either had multiple suppliers (you think they'd have learned by now) or waited until there was suffient supply of the drives to announce a new product.... BUT, since they've got zip on the horizon for puters, they're trying to milk the whole ipod thing for all it's worth, so I'm glad it bit them in the ass.

Make some computers, and we'll buy them.

Multiple suppliers usually mean multiple problems. One maybe higher then another and Apple has to absorb the costs or pass them to us, one has better reliablity then another and the customers are warned if they get so and so HD it may not last as long and so on.

The less suppliers you have the less that can go wrong. Now if they are all selling the samething and at the same price and quality then multiple suppliers is a good choice.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 12:55 PM
I find the reactions here just bizarre -- Apple has a product that is selling beyond its wildest dreams, and well beyond the predictions of most folks here, and that's a bad thing?

i don't think it's bizarre at all. if you are outside of the u.s. and want an iPod Mini, then i'd consider the delay negative news. it might be something positive for apple to have underestimated the demand or iPod Mini being a fantastic seller but if i wanted one and was told i'd have to wait 3 more months than i had originally expected, then i don't consider that good news at all on a personal level.

JohnGillilan
Mar 25, 2004, 12:56 PM
1) Apple doesn't like excess inventory. So underestimating demand is better than overestimating
2) Apple has a loyal core of customers who'll wait any length of time rather than buy from a competitor.
3) "Demand far exceeded supply" makes good press (except to analysts who look at missed revenue), much like the long queues outside Apple stores.

I agree with you, however, their loyal core of customers buy computers. Everyone is buying iPods. For the average consumer who first gets word of the iPod mini in January, they don't give a crap about a shortage of Hitachi 1" harddrives -- they want an iPod mini NOW!! I feel like a significant amount of potential customers will not wait until July. And even if they do, this is a negative first impression of Apple for PC users buying iPods. You guys all know as well as I know the frustration of ordering a product only to find out that it won't be shipped for months to come. All of these posts in support of Apple are relevant for our niche community here, however, this just doesn't cut it for the average consumer.

billyboy
Mar 25, 2004, 12:59 PM
Apple materials planning has been good for the iPod and quite adventurous at every stage. More expensive than any other brand at the outset and it stole the market. And, right through to summer 2003 when Apple had a meeting to decide on how many units to make for Xmas. Steve Jobs ordered 150,000 more than the highest guesstimate and they still sold out. Now it seems demand for the iPodmini has exploded way ahead of their plans and ahead of Hitachi's plans, and certainly ahead of the naysayers on the Mac forums.

ALoLA
Mar 25, 2004, 01:07 PM
iPod demand far exceeding anticipated numbers? Great news! :) Not being able to keep up with demand? When you have a great product that everyone wants, that's nothing new. I'd much rather have it this way than the other way around. For those who don't have the patience or wisdom to wait. Their loss. More mini iPods for the rest of us. :D Real Apple afficionados are willing to wait for the best technology available. We don't settle for anything less. :cool:

onemoof
Mar 25, 2004, 01:11 PM
Apple should "pull an iMac" and jack the price up on the Mini by $100. That will solve the demand problem instantly.

Tulse
Mar 25, 2004, 01:13 PM
i don't think it's bizarre at all. if you are outside of the u.s. and want an iPod Mini, then i'd consider the delay negative news. <snip> i don't consider that good news at all on a personal level.

Of course it's not good news for those individiuals outside the US who want one. But the complaints have been about Apple mismanagement, and how this is bad for Apple. And that's just silly -- Apple having a product that has huge demand is great news for Apple.

montex
Mar 25, 2004, 01:15 PM
I find the reactions here just bizarre -- Apple has a product that is selling beyond its wildest dreams, and well beyond the predictions of most folks here, and that's a bad thing?

The point we're trying to make is that this isn't an isolated incident. Go ahead and focus your attention to the situation at hand, my point is that this happens REPEATEDLY. I'm a longtime Mac user and I've seen this at least a dozen times.

Being cautious with new products is wise, but that wisdom becomes foolish when it causes the loss revenue that would have been gained if only they could have predicted demand better. If anyone at Apple deserves Steve's wrath, it's the supply managers. I'd hate to be them right about now.

mclosers
Mar 25, 2004, 01:18 PM
This is great news. They are still selling the same number they would have sold internationally they are just selling them in the US. Demand is outweighing supply not the other way around. This technically acording to basic economic principles causes price to rise but I don't think that will happen.
Also there is a very nice video review of the ipod mini in quicktime on this site http://www.vttv.vt.edu/geekspeak/

takao
Mar 25, 2004, 01:18 PM
if demand is high ->good for apple
but july ?

other manucatures aren't sleeping
those philips HD based aren't bad(ranging from 1,5 GB to 40 GB i think) my roommate buyed one 2 weeks ago(the smallest one with 1,5 GB)
i asked him why he didn't bought an ipod:
answer:"i'm not stupid ...those ipods are too big and espensive for me"

and the mini will sell for 299€ here (normal ipod starting at 349€)

sure the software isn't good but he only use it for transfering(he had to install windows for it though: normaly he uses linux , iTunes isn't available for linux either)

and if i look into german/austrian apple forums it isn't nice there either for apple at the moment: some feel like "second class user which-have-to-pay-more-for-the-same-later", others are importing them from US

sure it might be good for apple not to have extra stock but if they didn't change their marketing/depandencies outside of the US well they have to deal with the consequences...

the "announce product and start selling it half a year later" reminds me of sony,microsoft,etc.
perhaps IBM is bringing back their famous FUD with apple...
</rant>

eric_n_dfw
Mar 25, 2004, 01:26 PM
Without going back several years - to the late 80's/early 90's (a Quadra of some sort) - I can't remember the last time Apple suffered this problem at this scale. XServe G5's (still happening for duals)
PowerMac G5 Dual 2Ghz
17" Aluminum PowerBook
Flat Panel iMac
The first Superdrive G4's
G4 debacle in '99 (where they had to do a speed bump-DOWN fue to lack of 500MHz G4's)
The $999 iMac in 1999 (that one was especially long, if my memory serves me correctly)

Those are the first that come to mind, I'm sure there's more.

Wendy_Rebecca
Mar 25, 2004, 01:28 PM
I call troll. Why on earth would the fact that the iPod mini is delayed force you to buy a bigger, heavier mp3 player than even the 20gig or 40gig ipod?

Really. For crying out loud, buy a Dell DJ. Get 20GB cheaper than the 4GB iPod, get the ability to play back industry-standard WMA files, get built-in audio recording, and have fun.

montex
Mar 25, 2004, 01:35 PM
Buy a DJ! Now that's funny!

Trowaman
Mar 25, 2004, 01:42 PM
Yay Apple on your success.
Sorry Europe?

I don't know how else to put it, no one really did expect the mini to sell at all, but at least you'll get it in '04 ;) Who knows maybe you'll get iTMS with it!!! Here's hoping for you guys

*above message is not ment to be sarcastic

**nor is the disclaimer

Dstreelm
Mar 25, 2004, 01:45 PM
this news is very god news for apple and here's why:

apple will not lose any considerable business because of this. As someone said earlier, Apple is in the business of selling stuff. This news only means that Apple will not be able to sell the mini overseas, but they will ship to the states. People dont understand that they are still selling the same number of units, the ones they have in stock already, they just dont have the stockpiles to sell to the rest of the world yet.

and apple will not lose any sales to rio or any other POS media player company. people know that apple is the world leader in mp3 players. and if people have alotted money for an ipod mini, they arent goint to buy a rio or archos or something stupid like that. they are going to wait, and if they just cant wait, they may buy a 15gb ipod instead. someone should see over the next couple of weeks if the 15gb ipod sales goes up in the world market

trek7k
Mar 25, 2004, 01:45 PM
This makes me glad I'm not an Apple shareholder,

Hmmm, that's funny because this makes ME glad that I AM an Apple shareholder: Apple (AAPL: news, chart, profile) climbed 89 cents, or nearly 4 percent, to $26.21. Before the market opened, Apple said it would delay the global release of its iPod mini music player due to greater-than-expected demand in the U.S. The company originally planned on releasing the iPod mini outside the U.S in April but will now hold off until July :D

vitaboy
Mar 25, 2004, 01:56 PM
There is only ONE manufacturer who makes 4 GB hard drives that fit in the Mini form factor!!! That manufacturer is Hitachi, and Hitachi currently can't make enough of these hard drives because before the mini, demand for its teeny tiny hard drive was close to ZILCH (only bought buy high-end pro photographers for $500 a pop).

Anyone who thinks it's realistic for Apple to have gone to Hitachi and say, "We think the mini is going to such a hit, you need to spend tens of millions of dollars to build another entire new plant devoted to making these drives BEFORE we launch the product to be ready for future demand, uh huh." is living in fantasy land.

It would be a different situation if there were 3 or 4 manufacturers who made the same tiny drives that go in the mini, but THERE IS ONLY ONE MANUFACTURER THAT CURRENTLY HAS THE TECHNOLOGY TO BUILD THEM! What are you suggesting, that Apple should have made the mini twice as large to use more plentiful bigger form factor hard drives? Would the mini have been such a hit if it were that much bigger? Then Apple wouldn't have supply problem, sure, but then again, no one would be buying 'em! It was Hitachi or it was NOTHING - those are the facts.

Geez louise! Have we become nothing but a culture of whiners! What is it with people? When the mini was first introduced, there was nothing but whining about how no one would buy it because it was so expensive, you could get 4 times the storage for $50 more, blah, blah, stupid Apple. Now the thing is setting sales records by all accounts, and suddenly it's, I told you so, why is Apple so stupid for not making enough?!


Of course it's Apple's fault. Who chose the supplier? Who decides to go with a supplier without finding out what rate they can push them out? This is their fault. They knew they would have a hard time getting these new small hard drives, they are brand new and everyone is fighting for them! Not just Apple.

It's a decision Apple made - it's their fault.

I am not "mad" at Apple or anything, I just think it's stupid to always put the blame on other companies for Apple's stupid decisions.

TMA
Mar 25, 2004, 02:04 PM
Hi there,

This is very bad news and I am not a happy bunny. :( I had hoped to get a nice new shiney Silver iPod Mini for my 21st Birthday which is on the 3rd of July. The original release date of April left plenty of time for the initial rushes to calm down, leaving plenty of time to get one before July. Now April to July is a HUGE gap and I'm shocked Apple didn't predict the mini's success. Do they not do any reality research? It seems Apple have their heads in the clouds when it comes to meeting supply for non-US countries (aka - The Rest of The Word™) It feels like they don't give a flying poo.

But i'm mostly angry at the fact that it'll have been available in America for what, 6 months? before the rest of the population get to buy it. Why can't they just distribute whatever they can amongst all the countries? Why pick America first? It may be easier and logistically cheaper but so ********* what, how about customer satisfaction? how about keeping us loyal? have you heard of the word 'alienated' Apple? That's how 50% of your user base probably feel right now. That's how I feel and have done year after year. I will no longer take it up the bum to get my hands on Apple goods. This is why Apple wont go anywhere untill they stop treating non-Americans like ******. When potential customers feel as I do (and as a guess there are many) it wont be long before we're no longer potential customers.

Rant over - for now. I intend to contact Apple through all possible means and let them know how I feel. Obviously I'll tone it down somewhat.

Anyone agree with me?

ozlow
Mar 25, 2004, 02:05 PM
HAHAHA...I've got mine!!!

pepita
Mar 25, 2004, 02:12 PM
Feh. It's just a publicity stunt. :D

TMA
Mar 25, 2004, 02:15 PM
Feh. It's just a publicity stunt. :D

Great publicity stunt to piss off around 50% of Mac Users.

Dstreelm
Mar 25, 2004, 02:18 PM
Hi there,

But i'm mostly angry at the fact that it'll have been available in America for what, 6 months? before the rest of the population get to buy it. Why can't they just distribute whatever they can amongst all the countries? Why pick America first? It may be easier and logistically cheaper but so ********* what, how about customer satisfaction? how about keeping us loyal? have you heard of the word 'alienated' Apple? That's how 50% of your user base probably feel right now. That's how I feel and have done year after year. I will no longer take it up the bum to get my hands on Apple goods. This is why Apple wont go anywhere untill they stop treating non-Americans like ******. When potential customers feel as I do (and as a guess there are many) it wont be long before we're no longer potential customers.Anyone agree with me?

sorry i disagree, and its not cause im prying to give it to you up the pooper and its not because i disrespect non-americans.

what apple did was a business decision. the reason they chose to sell to the american market before the rest of the world is because americans buy more stuff. we buy more computers , cars, ipods and almost everything else in the market. plus, i suppose the fact that apple is located in the united states has nothing to do with it.

believe me, i feel your pain. have you ever thought about how non american car makers keep alot of their cars off the american market for years before finally introducing them here. you are from the UK. so its safe to say that if you wanna buy a lotus elise and have the money, its pretty easy to get huh, how about a nice pegeot 206?

its how the world works man and i know it sucks, but you shouldnt rip apple because they dont have the reserves of the mini to get you one immediatley. you will get one it will just take a little time

vitaboy
Mar 25, 2004, 02:22 PM
This isn't an ideal situation, but this really isn't Apple's fault. Hitachi is the only company that manufacturers a 4 GB hard drive that's small enough to fit in the mini. The previous market for the Hitachi drives was high-end digital photographers who bought the drives for $500 a pop. It is entirely unrealistic to suggest that Apple could have convinced Hitachi to open up a second plant for building these hard drives when probably the first plant wasn't even at 10% full capacity.

These hard drives are not like LCD screens where you can buy from a number of different manufacturers. There is currently only ONE company that makes these drives, and Hitachi was probably losing scads of money on them until the mini came along. You can bet that Hitachi is probably ramping up production big time now.

The mini is outselling even the wildest projections, and even if Apple believed it would happen, the point is Hitachi needed to be convinced with actual sales data before committing to RADICALLY increased production to the point where they have to build a second plant. That's the reality because as I said, Hitachi was experiencing almost zero demand for these drives before the mini and was probably used to building quantities of thousands instead of hundreds of thousands.

So could Apple have not used Hitachi? Yeah, but that would have meant no mini at all.

Here we go again.

ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to ask...who's responsible for Materials Planning at Apple? I suggested Bozo the clown before, but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 02:24 PM
i just noticed that the announcement keeps on saying how the world wide deployment date has been "moved." i realize it's all publicity lingo, but apple makes it sound like there's something potentially good about "moving" the date or something. :rolleyes:

oh well, sorry to you folks out in europe... :(

TMA
Mar 25, 2004, 02:25 PM
sorry i disagree, and its not cause im prying to give it to you up the pooper and its not because i disrespect non-americans.

what apple did was a business decision. the reason they chose to sell to the american market before the rest of the world is because americans buy more stuff. we buy more computers , cars, ipods and almost everything else in the market. plus, i suppose the fact that apple is located in the united states has nothing to do with it.

believe me, i feel your pain. have you ever thought about how non american car makers keep alot of their cars off the american market for years before finally introducing them here. you are from the UK. so its safe to say that if you wanna buy a lotus elise and have the money, its pretty easy to get huh, how about a nice pegeot 206?

its how the world works man and i know it sucks, but you shouldnt rip apple because they dont have the reserves of the mini to get you one immediatley. you will get one it will just take a little time

But my point is that I disagree with this being a good business decision. I believe that they will lose more money by alienating and generally annoying half of the user base and millions of other potential buyers. Selling to US only to start with will obviously get more money initially. But by the time it hits here we might not be interested. Take me for example, I'm now considering not having an MP3 player at all, or buying one from another company - This will in the long term hurt Apple.

neon
Mar 25, 2004, 02:31 PM
eh. i'm not *mad* or anything, and yes, it may be good news for apple, well hurrah for apple - i'm not apple, i'm a music lover and i am getting so tired of burning discs every time i think "ooh i wanna listen to ______".

please dont read this as anger, just slight disappointment, i will have a few hundred £'s disposable in a weeks time, i just hoped it would have coincided with an april release date so i could pre-order and look forward to it.

i won't wait until july, my discman is seriously p***ing me off, the size, the skippage (this is minimal but when it happens... y'know), the having to carry at least 5 or 6 mp3 discs *just in case* i want to listen to such and such.

so i'll get me one of those pretty 20gbs instead :)

i had been feeling torn anyway... i could fill a 40 tbh, the green mini won me over though... but at least white and chrome will go with everything :)

so i guess apple made up my mind for me, i wouldve loved a mini though... maybe by july i'll feel the need to treat myself again :D

Dstreelm
Mar 25, 2004, 02:39 PM
But my point is that I disagree with this being a good business decision. I believe that they will lose more money by alienating and generally annoying half of the user base and millions of other potential buyers. Selling to US only to start with will obviously get more money initially. But by the time it hits here we might not be interested. Take me for example, I'm now considering not having an MP3 player at all, or buying one from another company - This will in the long term hurt Apple.

i understand, and you have a point that they shouldnt be alienating apple, but think about this:

"apple decides to go ahead and introduce the ipod mini worldwide as planned. now the reserves of ipod minis in the united states gets slashed, apple is unable to keep up with orders in the united states and europe. not only will alot of europeans be pissed off because they placed an order with apple and it will take 2 months for shipping, american customers will be just as pissed off.

apple is deluged by angry emails from across the globe saying that they are angry they havent gotten their ipod mini yet.

a group of unstable apple users decide to bring a suit against apple for not having supplied them with their mini in a timely fashon

news of the suit makes it to macrumors.com

i get pissed off at alot of macrumors.com users supporting the suit against apple and decide to switch over to the dark side of computing: microsoft"

ok a got a little off track there at the end, but you get the point. apple is being honest and saying that it cant fufil orders for the ipod mini worldwide instead of saying they can supply the world, then failing woefully to do so

derboy
Mar 25, 2004, 02:42 PM
Bothered about stock price. Apple should stop pi$$ing everyone off. I recon old stevo should give his keynote bonanzas here in the uk or europe, then they would be nothing special, just a hint as to whats to come in say 3 months!

What product that cought any public attantion was not delayed? -both revisions of imacs, g5's, pbooks,ipods. -answer that question if you dont quite get the point

i'm not bitter, but my g5 1.6 is being ebayed over easter. totally had enough of apple

Dstreelm
Mar 25, 2004, 02:49 PM
i'm not bitter, but my g5 1.6 is being ebayed over easter. totally had enough of apple


"ill pay $50 for one!!" - pip

derboy
Mar 25, 2004, 02:58 PM
"ill pay $50 for one!!" - pip

Order it today. Then i'll call you and tell you that i'll multiply whatever expected delivery time i initially give you, by whatever factor i want. -apple style.

avus
Mar 25, 2004, 03:00 PM
Reading all the posts, I sympathize Apple that its user base is a bunch of whiners who don't waste any chance to bark at them.

Of course, I can only blame Apple for ATTRACTING all the losers in the world :o

Dstreelm
Mar 25, 2004, 03:05 PM
Order it today. Then i'll call you and tell you that i'll multiply whatever expected delivery time i initially give you, by whatever factor i want. -apple style.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

i can find that funny too, but in my experiences with apple, ive recieved my products before estimated delivery date

Nicky G
Mar 25, 2004, 03:18 PM
Reading all the posts, I sympathize Apple that its user base is a bunch of whiners who don't waste any chance to bark at them.

Of course, I can only blame Apple for ATTRACTING all the losers in the world :o

Amen! I'm from the USA and I bash my country every chance I get, usually -- but why do the Europeans feel they should have every Apple product at the same time as Americans? Apple IS an American company, and most tech companies tend to launch products in their home territory first, 'nuff said.

Look at all the really cool electronics gizmos that come out in Asia before the USA. I don't see people bashing the Japanese because Sony doesn't release all of their products globally at the same time. In fact, many of their products NEVER make it outside of Japan!

But that's right, it's cool right now to bash the USA. I don't really know what nonexistent WMDs has to do with Apple and the iPod mini, but from the whining going on here you would think that it was Apple stockpiling the WMDs for their buddy Saddam.

Tulse
Mar 25, 2004, 03:19 PM
Bothered about stock price.

Why? It's close to a 52-week high, and is up today after the announcement that minis are too popular for Apple's own good. There are plenty of things to be bothered by about Apple (the stagnant sales of its desktop lines, the desperate need for a refresh for almost all its computing products), but the stock is doing quite fine, thank you.

L2GX
Mar 25, 2004, 03:19 PM
oh well, sorry to you folks out in europe... :(

Yeah, that's it really..
US...... 15gb ipod = 299$
Belgian 15gb ipod = 423$

MCCFR
Mar 25, 2004, 03:22 PM
Hi there,

This is very bad news and I am not a happy bunny. :( I had hoped to get a nice new shiney Silver iPod Mini for my 21st Birthday which is on the 3rd of July. The original release date of April left plenty of time for the initial rushes to calm down, leaving plenty of time to get one before July. Now April to July is a HUGE gap and I'm shocked Apple didn't predict the mini's success. Do they not do any reality research? It seems Apple have their heads in the clouds when it comes to meeting supply for non-US countries (aka - The Rest of The Word™) It feels like they don't give a flying poo.

But i'm mostly angry at the fact that it'll have been available in America for what, 6 months? before the rest of the population get to buy it. Why can't they just distribute whatever they can amongst all the countries? Why pick America first? It may be easier and logistically cheaper but so ********* what, how about customer satisfaction? how about keeping us loyal? have you heard of the word 'alienated' Apple? That's how 50% of your user base probably feel right now. That's how I feel and have done year after year. I will no longer take it up the bum to get my hands on Apple goods. This is why Apple wont go anywhere untill they stop treating non-Americans like ******. When potential customers feel as I do (and as a guess there are many) it wont be long before we're no longer potential customers.

Rant over - for now. I intend to contact Apple through all possible means and let them know how I feel. Obviously I'll tone it down somewhat.

Anyone agree with me?

In my case, No!

iPod mini is a live product in the US, with live customers and seemingly an extensive back-order list.

iPod mini is not a live product anywhere else, and no one has paid a deposit and no one has a right to get all uppity.

If you want one that badly, put an order on Amazon or such like and you'll be part of the US customer base and you'll get the advantage of a great exchange rate as well.

Apple needs to satisfy the market that really exists, whilst building a solid supply for launch globally. The latter element of that would appear to require Apple to build around 500,000 units to satisfy launch demand in Japan, Asia and Europe.

In other words, Apple has to build a unit every 25 seconds for the next three months in order to satisfy the likely global demand at launch whilst continuing to supply a unit every 20-30 seconds for the USA.

If they launch iTMS in major international markets in the same window, that launch requirement may well increase to around 1 million units (a unit every 12.5 seconds).

Spreading 50,000 or even 100,000 units around globally to satisfy the needs of around 500 million potential consumers strikes me as p**sing in the wind to be frank. You won't satisfy a critical mass of your worldwide customer base - you'd need around 350,000 units if iTMS launches - and you'll create bad press in the USA where you have a large back-order list.

jxyama
Mar 25, 2004, 03:22 PM
Reading all the posts, I sympathize Apple that its user base is a bunch of whiners who don't waste any chance to bark at them.

Of course, I can only blame Apple for ATTRACTING all the losers in the world :o

thanks for a wonderfully insightful, generalizing and flaming comment. :rolleyes:

mvc
Mar 25, 2004, 03:34 PM
Reading all the posts, I sympathize Apple that its user base is a bunch of whiners who don't waste any chance to bark at them.

Of course, I can only blame Apple for ATTRACTING all the losers in the world :o


;-) Yeah, stop all the whining, children, this forum seems to be overrun with teenage angst and shortsightedness. Lots of people here at the moment are starting to sound like my toddlers.

True, the last FEW weeks have had a lot of "negative" or mainly just "nonexistent" rumours, but can we all please strive for a longer than 10 second attention span?

In the past, this forum has had many intelligent, experienced and well informed posters. Apple and Macrumors current slant towards iPods rather than Computers seems to have driven them away! (where have you all gone, come back, we love you really, there will be new macs one day… !!!)

Currently it's becoming an rumour emotional rollercoaster with each new release and if people can't post intelligently it will descend into the stupid pointless ranting found on most of the other forums which simply aren't worth reading.

Keep the damn faith for heavens sake, and have some vision for the future.

Edit - Can 'tspell angst propli

derboy
Mar 25, 2004, 03:40 PM
Why can't they just distribute whatever they can amongst all the countries?

i agree. i know its an american company but steady on. you know the design team- the people that are at the business end of the company, who create countless concepts. They are headed up by a Ive- a brit and the rest of the team from accross the world.

Thats a reason if any that the quotas for the world market should be protected, even if the US market runs short.

gekko513
Mar 25, 2004, 03:47 PM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!
So you promised your girlfriend you'll get her Windows 98 for her birthday back then? ;)

neon
Mar 25, 2004, 03:49 PM
Amen! I'm from the USA and I bash my country every chance I get, usually -- but why do the Europeans feel they should have every Apple product at the same time as Americans? Apple IS an American company, and most tech companies tend to launch products in their home territory first, 'nuff said.

Look at all the really cool electronics gizmos that come out in Asia before the USA. I don't see people bashing the Japanese because Sony doesn't release all of their products globally at the same time. In fact, many of their products NEVER make it outside of Japan!

But that's right, it's cool right now to bash the USA. I don't really know what nonexistent WMDs has to do with Apple and the iPod mini, but from the whining going on here you would think that it was Apple stockpiling the WMDs for their buddy Saddam.
is this one of those joke posts?

eSnow
Mar 25, 2004, 04:09 PM
The point we're trying to make is that this isn't an isolated incident. Go ahead and focus your attention to the situation at hand, my point is that this happens REPEATEDLY.

Remember the AluBook 17"?
Or the G5 tower?

Apple has completely lost the ability to deliver as of late. This _is_ a problem and it will effectively prevent them from gaining market share.

avvpiras
Mar 25, 2004, 04:15 PM
I'm an Italian Mac user, I was planning to buy an iPod mini, but I can't blame Apple for having decided to sell all the available minis in the US market first.

Every iPod mini sold in the US can also generate iTMS revenues, while no mini sold outside the US can, as iTMS is not yet available in any other country for buying songs (just for browsing and listening to 30-seconds previews).

By the way, I am also a shareholder ...

FatSweatyChimp
Mar 25, 2004, 04:21 PM
but from the whining going on here you would think that it was Apple stockpiling the WMDs for their buddy Saddam.


That's why no one can find WMDs. Apple can't seem to deliver anything on time :D

Trimix
Mar 25, 2004, 04:25 PM
Here we go again.

ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to ask...who's responsible for Materials Planning at Apple? I suggested Bozo the clown before, but I'm thinking it might be SpongeBob Square Pants!

Ronald Mc Donald :D

rog
Mar 25, 2004, 04:36 PM
Apple blows it again. Another hit product they announce 2 months early and can't get anywhere near meeting demand. Brilliant. Who does their forecasting? They should fire everyone in the division. I think it's getting time to look for a new CEO.

Trimix
Mar 25, 2004, 04:36 PM
Comments like this amaze me.

So you have to wait a little while to get the device that you want. Big deal. (My guess is that six months from now, you will have totally forgotten the short wait and be very happy with your new mini iPod.)

However, instead of waiting a short while, you are looking to completely change the way you operate by moving your music to a PC, and going with a much less integrated solution. (One that more than likely you won't be happy with compared to what you really wanted which was a mini iPod.)

All this because you are unwilling to wait 2-3 months.

Simply amazing!

Sushi

Agree with you Sushi- it is not as if ipods are not available, nooooo, the mini is not available. so i would not put too much emphasis on comments like that

Please whoever you are - move to pceee and enjoy - your tapes (oh how 80s) have been eaten suddenly and NOW you decide to change and because suddenly NOW the mini has a delay you are NOW switching to peeeceee - sorry arn but i must turn this into a personal attack - this guy/gal is a hypocrite - sorry, but now i feel better :)

Faraday
Mar 25, 2004, 04:42 PM
!! NEWSFLASH !! - Apple announces move into market for WMDs

http://www.cinemafactory.com/secret/iBomb/

Trimix
Mar 25, 2004, 04:46 PM
This will hurt AAPL stock price. This is not a one-time event for them. They have a very bad history of not being able to meet demand for new products. Wall Street sees this as poor planning, plain and simple.

A lot of non-Apple people who see the Mini and want one will go to the store, not be able to walk out with one and the salespeople will then show them the 4GB RIO for $50 less and they will buy that. Most of us here wouldn't settle for that, but I'd bet most people would.

Yeah right
NASDAQ was up today 3.02%
AAPL was up 5.37% regular trading session and 0.11% after hours

A happy AAPL shareholder :p

captain kirk
Mar 25, 2004, 04:49 PM
Agree with you Sushi- it is not as if ipods are not available, nooooo, the mini is not available. so i would not put too much emphasis on comments like that

Please whoever you are - move to pceee and enjoy - your tapes (oh how 80s) have been eaten suddenly and NOW you decide to change and because suddenly NOW the mini has a delay you are NOW switching to peeeceee - sorry arn but i must turn this into a personal attack - this guy/gal is a hypocrite - sorry, but now i feel better :)

Much as I love Apple and some of the fantastic products they create I do agree with the post saying he may move to PC, after all how many companies announce a product in January release it to a small %age of the world population in febuary and they stick 2 fingers up to the rest of the world in march by saying you can't have it till July. What about all the people that have pre ordered the mini through resellers and have paid £200 or so and have to wait 6 months to receive their product. Apple should have foreseen this demand especially with the success the regular ipod had over christmas 2003. Seems like someone seriously screwed up somewhere. What is worse is that many people, retail staff and customers now think apple is something of a joke when it comes to new products, think back to 17" powerbook, announced in january, supposed to ship in febuary, actually came in may/june, G5 towers, announced in june, supposed to ship in august, actually came in september/october. Apple loses a lot of credibility within the channel for this type of cock up and someone should take responsibility!


RANT OVER

iChan
Mar 25, 2004, 04:58 PM
this sucks so much... really wanted one to accompany me on my excercising regime over the summer...

anyone know where i get an import one in Ireland?

Trimix
Mar 25, 2004, 05:03 PM
Much as I love Apple and some of the fantastic products they create I do agree with the post saying he may move to PC, after all how many companies announce a product in January release it to a small %age of the world population in febuary and they stick 2 fingers up to the rest of the world in march by saying you can't have it till July. What about all the people that have pre ordered the mini through resellers and have paid £200 or so and have to wait 6 months to receive their product. Apple should have foreseen this demand especially with the success the regular ipod had over christmas 2003. Seems like someone seriously screwed up somewhere. What is worse is that many people, retail staff and customers now think apple is something of a joke when it comes to new products, think back to 17" powerbook, announced in january, supposed to ship in febuary, actually came in may/june, G5 towers, announced in june, supposed to ship in august, actually came in september/october. Apple loses a lot of credibility within the channel for this type of cock up and someone should take responsibility!


RANT OVER

Good one, thanks - but what Sushi meant (I hope i understood correctly) and what i was going on about was how could you let one product delay get to you in a way that you changed your lifestyle - the idea i was pursuing was to take sushi's view one step further and focusing on the idea to change your lifestyle in the light of viable alternatives from within Apple did no make any sense. It just struck me as being hyprocritical, especially when changing over from a tape-based walkman, no ?

Trimix
Mar 25, 2004, 05:06 PM
I just found this for all you DOOM AND GLOOM non-AAPL-Shareholders
Enjoy

Apples are also in demand, at least those stamped on Apple Computer's (AAPL) iPod mini music player. The company pushed back the device's international release date to July, "due to the much stronger than expected demand in the U.S. far exceeding the total planned supply through the end of June." Investors continued to cheer the company's transformation from a niche PC player into a cutting-edge consumer-electronics supplier, lifting its stock 5%.

Macmaniac
Mar 25, 2004, 05:09 PM
Well so much for wall street paying attention. 27.00 0.13 (0.48%) Apple is up in after and during the day trading:) Just goes to show you, good news bring the stock down, and bad news brings the stock up.

macridah
Mar 25, 2004, 05:27 PM
Really. For crying out loud, buy a Dell DJ. Get 20GB cheaper than the 4GB iPod, get the ability to play back industry-standard WMA files, get built-in audio recording, and have fun.

WMA - industry standard!? Crazy. iTunes is the leading download service and they don't use WMA, so therefore WMA is not a standard. I don't think WMA is use by >90% of the music downloaders. If anything, all players can play Mp3, there is just much better out there. Come on man, the W in WMA stands for windows.

Why don't other music download sites support AAC!

L2GX
Mar 25, 2004, 05:30 PM
Good one, thanks - but what Sushi meant (I hope i understood correctly) and what i was going on about was how could you let one product delay get to you in a way that you changed your lifestyle - the idea i was pursuing was to take sushi's view one step further and focusing on the idea to change your lifestyle in the light of viable alternatives from within Apple did no make any sense. It just struck me as being hyprocritical, especially when changing over from a tape-based walkman, no ?

The reason I switched from mac to pc is a bit irrelevant here, let's just say I got tired of running Unrealed on a 90mhz VirtualPC.
Still my G3 350 stands here next to a brand spankin new Athlon64 pc and it's the mac that is running my lifestyle - surfing, chatting, graphics, making comics, music etc. - except for playing dvds and gaming.
This includes taping iTunes playlists to 2 hour tapes wich I play on forementioned walkman -I'm so hardcore I eat early adopters for breakfast- just so I would not have to switch to a pc based jukebox and player.

The point some of you seemed to miss is that I do not blame anyone - I just can't afford a ipod, and the only reason I could justify buying a mini ipod is because of that 50$ (overhere hopefully 80$) difference.

I am not pissed, just sad and feeling let down, like a lot of people.

pjkelnhofer
Mar 25, 2004, 05:49 PM
That's why no one can find WMDs. Apple can't seem to deliver anything on time :D

Now that was funny!
I am suprised that this is such news. Apple always lets demand outweigh supply. It is pratically a marketing strategy of theirs. As if the mini is such an amazing machine they cannot produce them fast enough. We should all be used to this sort of thing by now. The real story to me is that Apple continues to make the news, but not with Macs.

What percentage of the iPods are being used with Macs vs. PCs? Does Apple have stats on that? Does Apple really care so long as they sold the iPod? If the iPod and iTMS for Windows were supposed to introduce people to Apple and get them to buy Macs, should we have seen an increase in Apple's desktop marketshare by now? (I know everyone has a story about a friend who switched, but were are the real numbers?)

Let's face iPod and iTMS is where the Apple is making it's money right now, and they are making a good chunk (I wouldn't suprised if it was the majority) of it from Windows users. They are so obsessed with MP3 player market share while we constantly hear that they are satisfied with their 3-5% of desktop computer share. I honestly worry that the lowly Mac owner (without an iPod) is being forgotten. As we approach 9 months since the last PowerMac update you can look at the "Buyer's Guide" (above and to the right) and everything (except the XServe) is desperately in need of an update.

LCD = 14 months
PowerMac = 9 months (not counting the 1.8 dual)
iBook = 5 months
eMac = 5 months
iMac = 6 months (not counting the 20")

Nearly half a year since the last major update of anything, and that was just getting the G3 out of the iBook. In the meantime we have seen iTMS for windows, the iPods go from 10GB, 15GB, 30GB to 15GB, 20GB, 40GB, and the introduction of the mini.

Any questions where Apple's attention is right now?

So my question is this, is Apple going to turn into a digital media company while the Mac becomes more and more of a niche computer? Or is Apple going to wow everyone with new PowerBooks, PowerMacs and iMac's over the next few months at lower prices and faster speeds taking the computing world by storm?

In my heart I want the latter? In my head I think the former?

stingerman
Mar 25, 2004, 05:58 PM
The reason I switched from mac to pc is a bit irrelevant here, let's just say I got tired of running Unrealed on a 90mhz VirtualPC.


Just buy the Mac version next time.

Apple has not run out of iPod Mini's, they are diverting the inventory to USA sales. European's can still buy them over the Internet via Amazon, etc.

It is not unusual for products to be released in one country a year before it hits the others. Sony does it all the time in Japan and the 3G phone makers do it all the time in Europe. It's been 6 Months since the super cool Nokia 6600 has been released in Europe (and they sold over 2 Million) but Nokia USA is still not supporting it in the USA (I got one though.)

So Apple is seeing demand in the USA as very strong (approximately three times stronger than they expected and growing.) Apple needs to meet that demand first otherwise the US market would fizzle and the momentum would die having an adverse affect on European pricing. So Apple made the best decision they could, keep feeding the buying frenzy and give it more legs. Only 5 months after it started shipping in the states, it will hit Europe in July, that's awesome and better than most manufacturers. And, Europeans may be able to realize a better price due to the increased manufacturing scale.

nubero
Mar 25, 2004, 05:59 PM
This makes me glad I'm not an Apple shareholder, because Apple's next quarter will be dismal. There are delays now in shipping the iPod Mini, the next generation G5 towers and new displays and the G5 Powerbooks. I'd like to know what Apple is selling that will make them a profit, maybe digital music downloads, but I really doubt that's as profitable as new hardware.
I do music production and I need a very fast, portable solution. The current Powerbooks are a joke in this regard. I've been using Macs since 1986 (and Apple products much before that) and right now, a new Sony VAIO Centrino notebook is starting to look real good. Apple better get their act together soon or I'm sure there will be more "switchers" over to the PC platform. We need new Apple hardware soon!


And in what context does this Centrino Notebook look good to you? In totally switching your workflow to a new machine for wich you'd have to buy new software as well?
If people switch 'cause of a 30% speed difference what will probably last 6 months, it's their fault. I never knew anyone who switched to PC (Or for that matter to a Mac) just because of the speed. It's about how you get your work done. So you'll see people switch that are affraid of OS X but I don't think because of the speed...
As for those G5 PowerBooks, i wouldn't advise to wait though. If you really need a speedy machine, get a G5 Desktop cause we will have to wait much longer for the G5 PBs. I mean look at how they are cooling the new XServe G5... I guess it will take some time to get a normal cooling for those in an 1-Inch enclosure...

BTW
Will someone please read this: http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=32821 and then tell me what kind of person this really is? This is allready a bit far from being critical... :confused:

--- --- --- --- ---
My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 06:12 PM
But i'm mostly angry at the fact that it'll have been available in America for what, 6 months? before the rest of the population get to buy it.
Heck, do you want to see lot's of cool electronics that never make it to the US? Then come visit Japan. For years I've had different electonic products that were never introduced outside of Japan. Is that fair. Nope. Will Japanese companies change. Nope.

Bottom line, companies decide how they distribute their products based on many factors. However, fairness to the world is not one of their top considerations. Get over it already. Sometimes you have to wait for a product that you want.

Sushi

Counterfit
Mar 25, 2004, 06:12 PM
WMA - industry standard!? Crazy. iTunes is the leading download service and they don't use WMA, so therefore WMA is not a standard. I don't think WMA is use by >90% of the music downloaders. If anything, all players can play Mp3, there is just much better out there. Come on man, the W in WMA stands for windows.Well, you're right, but popularity doesn't determine whether something is a standard or not, the format has to be accepted as such by the appropriate industry group(s).

Why don't other music download sites support AAC! I think Apple has an exclusive license to use FairPlay in conjunction with AAC. Of course, that doesn't stop any other store from using it, it is a standard after all :)

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 06:17 PM
i'm not bitter, but my g5 1.6 is being ebayed over easter. totally had enough of apple
Like this makes a whole lot of sense.

If you like the G5, why would you sell it because you have to wait a little while for a mini iPod?

Amazing!

Sushi

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 06:24 PM
i agree. i know its an american company but steady on. you know the design team- the people that are at the business end of the company, who create countless concepts. They are headed up by a Ive- a brit and the rest of the team from accross the world.

Thats a reason if any that the quotas for the world market should be protected, even if the US market runs short.
Unbelieveable!

So Apple is the only company in the world, where key folks are from another country?

Which is why Apple should ensure that their products make it to that country on line with the US?

Give me a break!

Apple will introduce the mini iPod and other products around the world when the supply chain will support it. And Apple, forseeing a shortage, realizes that it is better to keep potential customers informed of the delay ahead of time.

Sushi

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 06:35 PM
Apple blows it again. Another hit product they announce 2 months early and can't get anywhere near meeting demand. Brilliant. Who does their forecasting? They should fire everyone in the division. I think it's getting time to look for a new CEO.
You serious?!

This delay is due to the availability of HDs.

I guess Hitachi execs should be ousted! :eek:

Sushi

sushi
Mar 25, 2004, 06:39 PM
Good one, thanks - but what Sushi meant (I hope i understood correctly) and what i was going on about was how could you let one product delay get to you in a way that you changed your lifestyle - the idea i was pursuing was to take sushi's view one step further and focusing on the idea to change your lifestyle in the light of viable alternatives from within Apple did no make any sense. It just struck me as being hyprocritical, especially when changing over from a tape-based walkman, no ?
That's it! Well said. Better than I could have said it! Thanks! :D

Sushi

eSnow
Mar 25, 2004, 06:48 PM
And in what context does this Centrino Notebook look good to you? In totally switching your workflow to a new machine for wich you'd have to buy new software as well?
If people switch 'cause of a 30% speed difference what will probably last 6 months, it's their fault.

If you believe the perceived speed difference between about any Centrino and the top-notch PowerBook ist just 30%, you haven't been near to one. It is more like 100%. On a longer battery run-time too, I might add.

Apple is so full of announcing the latest gee-whizz they have lost track of the fundamentals: solid development and fulfilment.

takao
Mar 25, 2004, 07:34 PM
sure there are japanese/european products which don't get to the USA but: do they make a great deal about their products in the media,newspaper etc. when they don't ship there ? no they don't.

here in europe there is still a big media coverage over the ipod mini since january, only a few days "der spiegel" on of germans bigest weekly magazines had a extremly positiv review over the ipod mini... every week i see somewhere a review of them, some retailers(including german biggest) already have some in there stores set up for customers to play with...
but you can't buy them for another 4 months...

imagine a car/computer presented to american press, with big media coverage for months, with a _fix_ release date,journalists saying "how cool it is" or "must have" etc. for weeks,many people already preordering and waiting for it to be shipped and then BLAM "sorry guys we have to delay for 3-4 months because of demand" (what a surprise first they "produce demand" with media coverage and then they are surprised by the demand ?) would american customers be happy ? i doubt it...

sure the demand situation is good for apple ...no doubt about that...
i've got no problem with americans getting them before either but 6 months difference _is_ a lot in computers/electronics

how many future customers outside of the US think now:"hm perhaps apple releases new ipodminis next january!!! perhaps i should wait a few months"....?
Philips (anybody remember them? they developed the Audio-CD standard)... is selling their HD based players like crazy espacially at the moment... their small 1,5 GB ones with the same size of the ipod mini (what a surprise...)are number one at the moment and the thing has only USb 1.1 (yikes) and terrible software....

rikers_mailbox
Mar 25, 2004, 07:59 PM
Hmmm. . .

WWDC2004 is in July too. <wild speculation>maybe Steve announces iPod mini Europe and iTMS Europe together during the keynote<\wild speculation>

-rik

ChrisH3677
Mar 25, 2004, 08:02 PM
OMG!!! I was going to say "nyah nyah" to all those KBA's ("know better than Apple") who predicted doom for the mini iPod.

But then I see that this thread has a 3 to 1 negative rating!! What the??

First Apple bagged for bringing out a product that will never sell

Now they get bagged for not being smart enough to see how massively popular it was gunna be!!

They just can't win!!

nubero
Mar 25, 2004, 08:08 PM
First Apple bagged for bringing out a product that will never sell

Now they get bagged for not being smart enough to see how massively popular it was gunna be!!

They just can't win!!

Hehe
Seems you got it exactly right... And it's far better this way than to have storage halls full of products that nobody wants...

I, being in Switzerland, had to wait quite a long time too when the first ever iPod came out (at that time about everyone bashed it here in the Macrumors Forums BTW ;-) ) but it was well worth the wait (still got it and still works).

--- --- --- --- ---
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http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

nubero
Mar 25, 2004, 08:31 PM
If you believe the perceived speed difference between about any Centrino and the top-notch PowerBook ist just 30%, you haven't been near to one. It is more like 100%. On a longer battery run-time too, I might add.

Apple is so full of announcing the latest gee-whizz they have lost track of the fundamentals: solid development and fulfilment.

Well my point was not the 30% difference but the fact that a new PowerBook will eventually be faster, but will every windows user switch to that just 'cause of the speed? they won't 'cause in yet another 6 months from that they will have a faster machine again... and so on...

Apart from that, juggling with expansion, software and sound equipment and all that without windows crashing on you, you'll spend so much time keeping everything just about running on that notebook that your speed advantage has been totally lost...

--- --- --- --- ---
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http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

starboard
Mar 25, 2004, 08:44 PM
Well so much for wall street paying attention. 27.00 0.13 (0.48%) Apple is up in after and during the day trading:) Just goes to show you, good news bring the stock down, and bad news brings the stock up.

you kidding right?

This news is yet to be bad or good. We'll see in the future.

But from this, we can see two things.

One: Apple is selling more minis than expected, which means more profits than expected.

Two: Demand for the next several months will remain high, so the level of profit will sustain for a while to come.

Both of which have upward effect on stock price for the near future.

vwcruisn
Mar 25, 2004, 09:49 PM
My girlfriend picked up a pink one last week at the apple store in santa monica. got a student discount too. theyre REALLY sweet!

php
Mar 25, 2004, 10:13 PM
And in what context does this Centrino Notebook look good to you? In totally switching your workflow to a new machine for wich you'd have to buy new software as well?

All my main software (Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason, Native Instruments and Arturia software synthesizers, all ship as dual platform, Mac/PC versions in the same box.

If people switch 'cause of a 30% speed difference what will probably last 6 months, it's their fault. I never knew anyone who switched to PC (Or for that matter to a Mac) just because of the speed.

Then you don't know many musicians and audio professionals. This is not like typing a letter in a word processor, surfing the web or running a filter in Photoshop, this is real-time emulation of a recording studio and virtual instruments.
It's not just a 30% speed difference, it's more like a 300%+ speed difference, and that's not an exaggeration. As an example, Ableton Live running several ReWired Reason tracks with the highest quality reverb and a few other effects is straining at about 80% processor usage (on Ableton Live's CPU meter) with my dual G4. The PC I mentioned with the same setup barely shows 10%. All the code in the software I mentioned is optimized for the PC instead of for the Mac.

As for those G5 PowerBooks, i wouldn't advise to wait though. If you really need a speedy machine, get a G5 Desktop cause we will have to wait much longer for the G5 PBs.

As I said, I need a portable solution for field recording and live performance sometime soon, not a year from now.

groovebuster
Mar 26, 2004, 01:29 AM
This really helps to get a higher market share in Europe and other regiosn around the world! :rolleyes:

US first doesn't help on the long run. This is embarassing for Apple and I know quit a few people who will be extremely pissed about it...

The day Adobe and other companies would bring out their stuff for Linux, Apple would be history for me... I'm so fed up with their incompetence...

groovebuster

JFreak
Mar 26, 2004, 01:37 AM
I have a dual processor G4 tower, 1GB RAM, running OS 10.3.3 and a friend of mine runs the same audio and music production software on his $600 home-built PC and it just leaves my Mac in the dust. And it's not just by a small margin, the performance difference is extreme.

well, if you mean protools, you should know it's all about the music you make and not just playing a million tracks at once. the plugins are the key, and the fact is not all platforms are made equal - more plugs for mac than win, better support for mac customers by plug manufacturers, better quality of mac plugs than win ports... need i say more? computer is just a tool.

i have a 1.25ghz powerbook with 1gb ram and can do amazing things with it.

JFreak
Mar 26, 2004, 01:58 AM
Apple has not run out of iPod Mini's, they are diverting the inventory to USA sales. European's can still buy them over the Internet via Amazon, etc.

amazon usa only sells to american shipping addresses and amazon europe does not have ipod mini.

MCCFR
Mar 26, 2004, 04:00 AM
sure there are japanese/european products which don't get to the USA but: do they make a great deal about their products in the media,newspaper etc. when they don't ship there ? no they don't.

here in europe there is still a big media coverage over the ipod mini since january, only a few days "der spiegel" on of germans bigest weekly magazines had a extremly positiv review over the ipod mini... every week i see somewhere a review of them, some retailers(including german biggest) already have some in there stores set up for customers to play with...
but you can't buy them for another 4 months...

imagine a car/computer presented to american press, with big media coverage for months, with a _fix_ release date,journalists saying "how cool it is" or "must have" etc. for weeks,many people already preordering and waiting for it to be shipped and then BLAM "sorry guys we have to delay for 3-4 months because of demand" (what a surprise first they "produce demand" with media coverage and then they are surprised by the demand ?) would american customers be happy ? i doubt it...

sure the demand situation is good for apple ...no doubt about that...
i've got no problem with americans getting them before either but 6 months difference _is_ a lot in computers/electronics

how many future customers outside of the US think now:"hm perhaps apple releases new ipodminis next january!!! perhaps i should wait a few months"....?
Philips (anybody remember them? they developed the Audio-CD standard)... is selling their HD based players like crazy espacially at the moment... their small 1,5 GB ones with the same size of the ipod mini (what a surprise...)are number one at the moment and the thing has only USb 1.1 (yikes) and terrible software....

So your complaint is that the media have had the opportunity to review the iPod mini and they've said really positive things about it, so why do you have to wait.

As a Brit and a car lover, I cannot tell you the number of times I've read a positive review of a model that isn't going to be available here for six months or a year.

Volvo XC90, Porsche Boxster, Various BMW M-cars through the years. Even the Fiat Barchetta is still not available as a proper 'right-hooker'.

As I've stated earlier, Apple seemingly needs to build a stock of around 400-500,000 iPod (180K to Europe, 180K to Japan, 140K to the rest of the world) minis to launch them globally. Or would you rather whinge that you put your order in, but you had to wait for three months for delivery.

At least, they're being sensible: you may know the iPod mini exists, but has Apple ever told you exactly what date you'll be able to buy one and how much it will cost. NO!! they didn't. So it's not really launched globally, is it??

Swinny
Mar 26, 2004, 04:08 AM
I'm not in the market for a mini (my 15Gb will do me fine for another revision or two I'm sure)...but I must say I think this is a huge let-down....yet again a broken promise from Apple (and to make it worse, seemingly to serve their US bias)...The hype over here surrounding the iPod mini and iTMS is unbelievable considering we have no idea when either will be released...I fear that if Apple don't pay a little more attention to the European and Far-East wings of their music ventures then the battle will be lost before they even come to market,

Here's hoping for a simultaneous iPod mini and iTMS European launch in July - with all the fan-fare and marketting drive the hype deserves...I won't be holding my breath though.

Swinny
Mar 26, 2004, 04:13 AM
...Even the Fiat Barchetta is still not available as a proper 'right-hooker'.

...simply because demand does not justify the expense of sticking the steering wheel on the right side of a car that, despite its many charms, doesnt compete with the best the class have to offer...hardly the case with the iPod mini which is universally hailed as "class leader" and requires practically zero reconfiguration for its target markets.

pepita
Mar 26, 2004, 04:38 AM
Great publicity stunt to piss off around 50% of Mac Users.

I don't know about that. I wouldn't be too sure so many people would be pissed off. Those who were going to buy the mini in Europe are not 50% of Mac users! And not all of those who were planning to buy it are going to be that pissed off either.

It is a bit disappointing that it's not available for a while yet. They could have thought about it before. But, I don't see the big deal, really. It's only two months later. Eight weeks. The iPod is not some essential piece of hardware you can't do without. Delays do happen in other markets too, when something comes from the US.

If people are really set on getting that particular product and model, they'll wait. I don't see people suddenly changing their minds on the mini and thinking, hmm, I should get some other brand instead. The appeal of the product is too strong. It's like with Playstations. Do you remember when people travelled to Japan and camped out in Tokyo just to be the first to buy it? Maybe the iPod mini craze is not as crazy, but if there's people who really cannot wait until July, there are ways to get it from the US without even having to take a plane.

Plus, at least they did make an announcement. I'm more annoyed at the total lack of updates about the date the iTunes Music Store is expected to go worldwide. I guess there's even more things to sort out there than just product availability, there's regulations, record label deals, distribution issues, and all that crap, so I'm not suprised it's taking so long, but they could at least say something... Even something vague and uncertain would be better than no information.

Then again, if people expect absolute certainties, maybe they're wiser in not saying anything til they're completely sure...

Either way, they're getting even more publicity for all iPods, and a delay makes it even more of an item to lust after. Maybe they did it all on purpose after all :p

Zaty
Mar 26, 2004, 06:50 AM
Launching iTMS Europe on the same the day the mini is lauchend would be a good thing and everyone who's angry at Apple right now we'll be more than happy with their iPod mini +iTMS. Perhaps Apple will give away one free song with any iPod mini purchase in Europe.

groovebuster
Mar 26, 2004, 07:11 AM
So your complaint is that the media have had the opportunity to review the iPod mini and they've said really positive things about it, so why do you have to wait.

That wasn't his point, so don't twist his words.

For example Apple did big advertisement here in Berlin for the iPod mini. There is a huge Poster close to Alexanderplatz on the side of a building (about 20 meters high) that I can see from the office window of one of my customers. Fact is that Apple themselves promoted the shipping would start in April. And it was also Apple giving the iPod mini to journalists already so that they write reviews about it.

Why an US customer is worth more to Apple than a non US customer? And in a way that Apple can break a promise made before?

Short supply is one thing, but postponing the shipping date in favour of the US is something totally different. The message to "us" is: "The americans are getting the iPod minis now that were meant for you!"

Thank you very much! That's a nice way to treat customers. Not to forget that Apple always makes an extra buck or two by way to high prices for their stuff.

Shall I go on?

groovebuster

groovebuster
Mar 26, 2004, 07:17 AM
I don't know about that. I wouldn't be too sure so many people would be pissed off. Those who were going to buy the mini in Europe are not 50% of Mac users! And not all of those who were planning to buy it are going to be that pissed off either.
I guess you misunderstood him. 50% of the mac market is outside the US.

It is a bit disappointing that it's not available for a while yet. They could have thought about it before. But, I don't see the big deal, really. It's only two months later. Eight weeks. The iPod is not some essential piece of hardware you can't do without. Delays do happen in other markets too, when something comes from the US.
2 months is eternity in the consumer market. And it is more about the message Apple is sending to the customers outside the US: You are second class, sorry!

If people are really set on getting that particular product and model, they'll wait. I don't see people suddenly changing their minds on the mini and thinking, hmm, I should get some other brand instead.
Exactly that's what's gonna happen. Again... 2 months in consumer market are eternity.

Apple will never change. Arrogance coupled with incompetence. That's why Apple will never have more than 2% of the PC market and will go on dying slowly over the years...

groovebuster

Mitthrawnuruodo
Mar 26, 2004, 08:51 AM
I'm sitting in Norway with my already exactly four weeks old (green) iPod mini. :D

My cousin and I ordered 4 iPod minis from CompUSA, who unlike AppleStore USA accepts foreign credit cards. Three days later FedEx showed up at the door her in Bergen, Norway with an appology for not delivering the previous day. The shipping cost was pretty stiff ($130), but divided in 4 it was acceptable...

groovebuster
Mar 26, 2004, 09:01 AM
@Mitthrawnuruodo:

Good for you... but it doesn't change the problem in general.

What will you do anyway in case of warranty issues? Bought in the US and not even sold so far in Europe. So I bet you don't have any warranty at all on your little toys... That sucks! Good luck!

groovebuster

Mitthrawnuruodo
Mar 26, 2004, 09:10 AM
@Mitthrawnuruodo:

Good for you... but it doesn't change the problem in general.

What will you do anyway in case of warranty issues? Bought in the US and not even sold so far in Europe. So I bet you don't have any warranty at all on your little toys... That sucks! Good luck!

groovebuster

We naturally contacted Apple before we bought them, and got an assurance that the warranty on the minis were valid worldwide.

Additionally the woman we contacted at CompUSA assured us that we of course could return any damaged/non-working iPods.

So I will be very surprised if there should be any problems if one of the minis were to develop a terminal illness... ;)

ibjoshua
Mar 26, 2004, 09:11 AM
Shame, I was planning on getting me one of them iPod mini things in April. Guess I'll just have to keep whistling me favourite tunes eh?

i_b_joshua

macdong
Mar 26, 2004, 09:25 AM
:rolleyes: eh, quit whining. Apple is just playing it safe. What if demand for the ipod had been weaker than expected and apple had ordered one million more 1-inch hard drives than it needed. then they'd be in deep doodoo. if they underestimate the demand, then they won't more than a several-day inventory channel, which is very appealing to investors and drives stock prices up.

come on now, use your brain before you just whine about how you're inconvinenced.

besides, i ordered my ipod mini march 1st and got it a week ago. Doesn't seem to be much of a supply problem to me (at least in the us) ;)

you are absolutely wrong. in corporation world, playing safe won't get you anywhere. you have to take risks, but how much and when is the important parts. Wendy_Rebecca is right, whoever in charge of materials planning or marketing planning didn't not do a very good job.

nubero
Mar 26, 2004, 09:46 AM
Then you don't know many musicians and audio professionals. This is not like typing a letter in a word processor, surfing the web or running a filter in Photoshop, this is real-time emulation of a recording studio and virtual instruments.
All the code in the software I mentioned is optimized for the PC instead of for the Mac.
As I said, I need a portable solution for field recording and live performance sometime soon, not a year from now.

Well thanks for letting me in on how computers work. I assume you do some kind of DJ work as you nee a portable solution... Cause I've seen quite a lot of G4 and now G5 Towers horizontally in an audio case complete with all the other 19" Audio equipment you'll ever need. I know Reason and you said yourself that it is "optimized" for the PC. See I thought of a context like ProTools and Logic but since you need all the live tone generators on software side in a "hand-portable" solution, that's a DJ, right?

But my question would be don't you do a mixdown before you play or are you playing around with all the levers and switches in reason for a live performance?

And btw I DO know quite a lot of musicians and audio professionals but was never too interested in this kind of work as I am more visuall...

Show me some of your work, by now I got interested :)

And take a look at mine. My link down there includes work samples.

--- --- --- --- ---
My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

jayscheuerle
Mar 26, 2004, 09:52 AM
I berated the overpriced mini when they were released.

Now I own a green one. I love it for running. Chicks dig it and the fact that it only holds 10% of my library doesn't matter because I seem to listen to the same 500 songs anyways... ;)

bluefido
Mar 26, 2004, 11:21 AM
Does this sound familiar? Apple announces a breakthru product and releases it a month or so after the announcement. Then (surprise!) demand is much higher than they ever could have imagined and won't be able to make the product fast enough, forcing customer to wait weeks or even months to fulfill their orders.

How many times does this have to happen before someone at Apple (uh, Steve?) says to the veep in charge of production "You're fired!". Apple is in the business of selling, right? Why do they always seem to sell themselves short when they could be reeling in some serious bank? There must be a bean counter at Apple that has no confidence in their products and constrains production accodingly. I mean, c'mon guys haven't you gotten over the IIvx yet?

Seriously, this is the one thing about Apple that drives me up a wall!

There may be several reasons for delay. 1) Most notably, Hitachi or whoever manufactures the actual hard drive cannot make enough of them to satisfy Apple's demand. I think people generally have unrealistic expectations out of one company, albeit one that they may hold dear to. 2) At a $250 price point, no one expected demand to be as great as it has been. Anyone that did predict this...I would like to leave some money with you for investment purposes. 3) Apple may have been cautious considering it was trying to replicate the success of the iPod. Apple would not want thousands of paper weights if iPod mini did not take off. A recent example is the Cube fiasco.

Finally, just get over it! iPod mini is selling extremely well with high profit margins. It is an unqualified success. When something is as successful as the iPod mini from the get-go, there is NEVER enough supply to outstrip demand.

bluefido
Mar 26, 2004, 11:39 AM
Unbelieveable!

So Apple is the only company in the world, where key folks are from another country?

Which is why Apple should ensure that their products make it to that country on line with the US?

Give me a break!

Apple will introduce the mini iPod and other products around the world when the supply chain will support it. And Apple, forseeing a shortage, realizes that it is better to keep potential customers informed of the delay ahead of time.

Sushi

I agree that Apple cannot have worldwide releases, but your reasoning is a bit awkward. It is not so much about a "the supply chain [supporting] it." It is about focusing on your largest market first and making sure that the product is a success before introducing it to another market. Since Apple's primary market is the US, their products are introduced there first. If the iPod mini was a complete failure in the US, then Apple might have introduced the mini in much lower quantities (or at a lower cost) in other countries.

For something as successful, from the time of its introduction, as the iPod mini, supply will almost never outstrip demand. That is part of its success as well--consumers see how well it has been selling despite its high price and then make the jump to get one because everyone else is.

Europe and Asia are extremely important markets. It is why Apple is buying up every 1" inch drive it can get its hands on. The supply of minis could probably lead to the product introduction in other markets right now, but then Apple would just be killing the success in its most important market.

jesuscandle
Mar 26, 2004, 12:08 PM
lol Apple does have issues with new products. But I also don't think that even Apple expected the Mini to be so popular. Considering all the people who were bashing it in January, I am a little surprised it is doing so well.

Mr. Monkey is right. I seem to remember *everyone* in this forum talking about how fast this would fail. Let's presume you were at one end of the spectrum. At the otherhand is the actual unexpected success of the mini.

I think it's better for Apple to prepare - financially at least - for a more middle ground. Frankly, if we all found out they ordered way too many minis, we'd be furious at how dumb they are at planning. This was perhaps equally dumb in terms of estimating supply and demand. But at least it doesn't cost much to be conservative.

Also - this is how you build buzz. Give the people something cool, then take it away. Now, the mini is a status object... :D

pepita
Mar 26, 2004, 12:13 PM
I guess you misunderstood him. 50% of the mac market is outside the US.

Yes, I did understand that actually. But I meant: not all of those 50%, in Europe, and Asia, and Australia, were going to buy the iPod mini.


2 months is eternity in the consumer market. And it is more about the message Apple is sending to the customers outside the US: You are second class, sorry!

Well, like I said, I do find it a bit disappointing too, because I was planning to buy the mini as my first iPod. But I really wouldn't put it like it was such a big deal, for me personally it isn't. I accept I'm not the only one who was going to buy a mini, so well, it's just my point of view. I don't see it as such a tragedy really.

But I do know several other people who have "booked" the mini. They're so not going to change that with any other brand. Because they want the mini. It's the design, it's the brand, it's the technology, it's the object itself. There's nothing else like it. There may be players that offer more for half the price, but they're not the iPod...

Think about it: if by April 2004 you've *never* bought any other mp3 player yet, that means you don't really need one that badly, so you're buying the mini just because you like the mini, not any other mp3 player. (At most, you could get an iPod instead). IF on the other hand you already have an iPod or another music player of any other brand, then, you're not going to buy another, and will wait for the mini if that's what you want...

You know, the theory that everyone is going to rush out and buy other brands would make a lot more sense if the mini iPod was the first digital music player ever, or a music player with some new, revolutionary, unique outstanding technology no one else has used yet, or, again, a player with an exceptional value for money. It isn't. It's expensive, it has less space than other players, it has probably even less features. But it's just the coolest thing in itself. Thats it's appeal. That's why people want it and not any other brand.

I'm not saying this to excuse Apple at all, it is disappointing that they messed up on the release date, for sure. But I don't think the consequences will be that catastrophic. Actually, I do believe the fact you have to wait longer will increase the appeal of the product even more. Basic armchair psychology :p

jxyama
Mar 26, 2004, 01:12 PM
All my main software (Ableton Live, Propellerhead Reason, Native Instruments and Arturia software synthesizers, all ship as dual platform, Mac/PC versions in the same box.

...

Then you don't know many musicians and audio professionals. This is not like typing a letter in a word processor, surfing the web or running a filter in Photoshop, this is real-time emulation of a recording studio and virtual instruments.
It's not just a 30% speed difference, it's more like a 300%+ speed difference, and that's not an exaggeration. As an example, Ableton Live running several ReWired Reason tracks with the highest quality reverb and a few other effects is straining at about 80% processor usage (on Ableton Live's CPU meter) with my dual G4. The PC I mentioned with the same setup barely shows 10%. All the code in the software I mentioned is optimized for the PC instead of for the Mac.

...

As I said, I need a portable solution for field recording and live performance sometime soon, not a year from now.

is it just me or i think there's no reason for you NOT to just get a vaio or whatever laptop that suits your need?

if what you are saying is true, then it would be utterly silly to stick with a Mac. that's probably why some people don't really believe you - if you gain 300% in performance by using a PC and you already own PC versions of the software, then most logical people will just use PC instead of ranting about how bad Mac is.

php
Mar 26, 2004, 01:21 PM
Well thanks for letting me in on how computers work. I assume you do some kind of DJ work as you nee a portable solution... Cause I've seen quite a lot of G4 and now G5 Towers horizontally in an audio case complete with all the other 19" Audio equipment you'll ever need. I know Reason and you said yourself that it is "optimized" for the PC. See I thought of a context like ProTools and Logic but since you need all the live tone generators on software side in a "hand-portable" solution, that's a DJ, right?

You did want to know why anyone would switch to a PC just for speed, and I told you. The 19" rack mount stuff with hardware all over the place is exactly what I want to avoid. Hence my need for a fast notebook computer.
Reason and especially Ableton Live always seem to run much more efficiently on a PC. Reason is dual processor aware but not G4 optimized, Live is neither. I'm not a DJ, I'm a musician and composer.

But my question would be don't you do a mixdown before you play or are you playing around with all the levers and switches in reason for a live performance?

Yeah, I tweak the controls when I play. Mixing down and playing live are two different things. I would never play a recorded and mixed down composition and pass it off as a live performance if that's what you mean.

And btw I DO know quite a lot of musicians and audio professionals but was never too interested in this kind of work as I am more visuall...

Show me some of your work, by now I got interested :)

And take a look at mine. My link down there includes work samples.

OK

http://pages.cthome.net/arszyla/

php
Mar 26, 2004, 01:33 PM
is it just me or i think there's no reason for you NOT to just get a vaio or whatever laptop that suits your need?

if what you are saying is true, then it would be utterly silly to stick with a Mac. that's probably why some people don't really believe you - if you gain 300% in performance by using a PC and you already own PC versions of the software, then most logical people will just use PC instead of ranting about how bad Mac is.

You're the only one who doesn't seem to believe me ;)
I stick with a Mac because I like the Mac and especially OS X. And I'm not ranting about "how bad Mac is", I just want Apple to get moving, that's all. No way am I going to purchase a 1.2 Ghz or 1.33 Ghz Powerbook for $2500-$3200 when they're not much more powerful than my old dual G4.
If OS X were available for PC that would be a good solution. Powerful hardware with an elegant OS.

nubero
Mar 26, 2004, 01:33 PM
Mixing down and playing live are two different things. I would never play a recorded and mixed down composition and pass it off as a live performance if that's what you mean.

I didn't mean that. Sorry if you got me wrong on this one. I meant something more like mixing down the things you don't need/want to tweak and keep the rest the way it is so your app would only have to deal with the stuff you are really going to change in a performance (as opposed to keeping everything live).

Bottom line, if you can't live with a G4 PowerBook, you'll have to get something else... Or write a letter to Apple and tell them to buy Reason and your other app as well. ;-)

--- --- --- --- ---
My free Desktop Pictures!
http://homepage.mac.com/nuber

ssamani
Mar 26, 2004, 04:44 PM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!

Perhaps you should throw in a weekend to NY :eek:

mara
Mar 26, 2004, 06:38 PM
amazon usa only sells to american shipping addresses and amazon europe does not have ipod mini.

Try eBay...? I received my iPod mini last week... With custom, taxes and shipping 265 euros alltogether...

sushi
Mar 26, 2004, 08:58 PM
It is about focusing on your largest market first and making sure that the product is a success before introducing it to another market. Since Apple's primary market is the US, their products are introduced there first. If the iPod mini was a complete failure in the US, then Apple might have introduced the mini in much lower quantities (or at a lower cost) in other countries.
Understand where you are coming from. No disagreement concerning on Apple focusing on their major market first.

However, Japan itself (not Asia) has been a huge market for Apple. I appologize for not having the current numbers, but a few years ago, Japan was close to 30% of Apple's total worldwide market share. Japan is and has been a significant market for Apple. Obviously, Apple understands this which is why there is a very nice Apple store in the Ginza.

Additionally, because of the way the Japanese are, my bet is that the mini iPod will sell very well over here. It's small, fashionable, works well, and is a totally integrated solution.

The mini iPod's competition will be the MD and flash players. There are a huge number of models of both types of players. In fact, may stereos come with MD built in to them which makes it real convenient for the user.

Anyhow, Apple needs to take care of the homefront first, then expand worldwide as soon as they can. In this case, it looks like we will have a short delay. ...but they are coming! :D

Sushi

kos
Mar 27, 2004, 03:44 AM
I bought my mini ipod from bhphotovideo.com, the only place i can find that ships to the uk at a reasonalble price without going through ebay. But they are out of stock, does anyone know when they will be in stock? because their customer service don't know. Ive ordered three for friend i bet i get taxed to hell lol

173080
Mar 27, 2004, 04:53 PM
Think about it: if by April 2004 you've *never* bought any other mp3 player yet, that means you don't really need one that badly, so you're buying the mini just because you like the mini, not any other mp3 player. (At most, you could get an iPod instead). IF on the other hand you already have an iPod or another music player of any other brand, then, you're not going to buy another, and will wait for the mini if that's what you want...

I couldn't agree more.

I had never considered getting an mp3 player until I saw the iPod mini. People were telling me that it was too expensive for only 4GB, and that I could get a Creative or Sony player for the same price, maybe even less.. but I did NOT want any of those players. I just didn't find them cool enough.

This morning I placed my order for a Silver iPod mini :D

The estimated arrival date is April 26th... I guess it's worth the wait.

vpalvarez
Mar 28, 2004, 12:12 AM
This is apparently Hitachi's fault. I just read an article where they state that they are going to increase production and really start pumping them out. Hope all those across the pond don't haveto wai until June/July to get a mini. :(

vpalvarez
Mar 28, 2004, 12:21 AM
Launching iTMS Europe on the same the day the mini is lauchend would be a good thing and everyone who's angry at Apple right now we'll be more than happy with their iPod mini +iTMS. Perhaps Apple will give away one free song with any iPod mini purchase in Europe.

You would Be happy with just ONE free song. After the months of delays ONE free song would be a slap in the face. Give me like 10-20 dollars credit.

I just had a thought: when ITMS goes global how will it be priced. Will it be .99 euros for a song and if so that would change the monetary value of the song. Interesting thought

vpalvarez
Mar 28, 2004, 12:25 AM
First no freakin' PM updates and now no iPOD mini (which of course I promised to get for my girlfriend for her birthday mid-may, now that's going to be an interesting conversation!)

Man... I swear Microsoft never messed me around this much!

I can understand your angst, but I've been screwed by MS lots of times. Different from delays but worst nonetheless

iMan
Mar 28, 2004, 02:17 AM
why don't they wait and announce things when they have sufficient supplies to ship at least some units immediately? i feel that i great number of people are quite frustarted about this issue with apple.

-dornball


Because then people would be whining: "They never come put with those updates - how long does it take to release some new breakthrough stuff? Why was there no new iPod at MWSF?"
And what is sufficient supplies? As I remember there were predictions that this thing would not sell at all, and the price was too high. Then they were hit with the 100 000 preorders - quite a lot - and it is very difficult for a "small" company like Apple to predict demands... especially with the kind of envelope pushing products they frequently launch.
Besides, even Sony has problems with supply in their productchain when releasing new products.... at least I remember there were delays for the PS2 when it hit the market...

macka
Mar 28, 2004, 04:08 AM
You bet. I'm in Australia and trust me, loads of people are quite annoyed with the whole situation.

It's bad enough with delays in the US, but in places outside of the US it's just really unfortunate when you have to resort to eBay or other methods to get a stupid music playing device...well ok it's not stupid. :)

The point is, they get everybody's hopes up, order them in time for people's birthday's, anniversary gifts, whatever and then they are delayed which results in negative feelings about not just the iPod but the whole Apple company in general.

I don't want to sound like another whiner, but hey. :p

pepita
Mar 28, 2004, 05:24 AM
I couldn't agree more.

I had never considered getting an mp3 player until I saw the iPod mini. People were telling me that it was too expensive for only 4GB, and that I could get a Creative or Sony player for the same price, maybe even less.. but I did NOT want any of those players. I just didn't find them cool enough.

Eh, exactly the same for me...

Til now, I thought I wouldn't want or need an MP3 player ever. I'm still buying vynil lp's, for gosh's sake... I really didn't want to fall for the iPod mini. But I couldn't help it. It was like, don't even make me look at it or I'll just have to buy it!

I hate to be a fashion victim like this ;)

Now I just can't decide between green and gold. I haven't seen them with my own eyes so have to rely on photos. The ones on Apple sites seem to have the colours turned up a notch...

...actually, I might as well ask here - does anyone have their own pictures of a gold or green mini, where you can see the thing in real light? if so could you post it or send me one? I'd appreciate that a lot...

pepita
Mar 28, 2004, 06:08 AM
I just had a thought: when ITMS goes global how will it be priced. Will it be .99 euros for a song and if so that would change the monetary value of the song. Interesting thought

I wonder about that too. With the current conversion rate, as of time of posting, 0.99 USD = 0.8132751 Euro = 0.54416538 GBP = 1.33729596 AUSD.

The best way would be for apple to keep the prices in USD for all countries. That way, when you pay with your credit card, you'll only spend the exact amount converted to Euros (or pounds or australian dollars or any other currency) according to the rate of that particular day, rather than some arbitrary fixed conversion rate.

Plus, I don't see Apple opening a special version of iTMS for each country or area. Even if you're using a localized system, you access the same Music Store in English, and I don't think they're going to bother localizing that, it would be crazy. So keeping everything as is, including prices in USD, would be a lot more practical.

I really hope they do it by this summer too. "Very soon" cannot mean "next year"...

iMan
Mar 28, 2004, 07:29 AM
Plus, I don't see Apple opening a special version of iTMS for each country or area. Even if you're using a localized system, you access the same Music Store in English, and I don't think they're going to bother localizing that, it would be crazy. So keeping everything as is, including prices in USD, would be a lot more practical.

I really hope they do it by this summer too. "Very soon" cannot mean "next year"...

They would probably want to open only one iTMS, but it would probably be easier to do one for each country (local artists get more space and such - which is a huge selling point). Besides, they already do this with the Apple Store and iPhoto - also invoicing in local currency. Fairly easy for everyone to relate to :)

smartypantsguy
Mar 29, 2004, 02:16 AM
No, I DON'T agree...

Grow up.

Read the posts in this forum regarding whiners like you who thought it wouldn't sell, and are now whining that you can't get your mitts on one. Apple is an American company, and it's obviously easier to SHIP to American cities/Apple Stores, and get the profit quick. That's just MY guess. I'm sure Apple has it's own reasons for distributing the way it does. - Who are we to question their tactics? Are you a successful, multi-biliion dollar computer/most-popular-MP3-player-ever-in-the-history-of-the-world maker?

Probably not...

They couldn't have ANY idea this thing would take off like it has...

We're sorry you feel like second class citizens when it comes to being able to purchase Apple products, but - them's the breaks. - You think Apple WANTS to alienate a continent? No, I don't think so... This is simply a case of not having enough, and not KNOWING they weren't going to have enough.

If you can't wait, go spend your hard earned deniros on a Dell DJ, and we'll call it a day.

Again, sorry you have to wait - but did someone - your mother or father, maybe an uncle, pull you aside one day and say "You know [yourname], life is completely fair, all the time, everywhere...". - I don't think so.

So I repeat... - Grow Up.
_____________________

Hi there,

...It seems Apple have their heads in the clouds when it comes to meeting supply for non-US countries (aka - The Rest of The Word™) It feels like they don't give a flying poo.

But i'm mostly angry at the fact that it'll have been available in America for what, 6 months? before the rest of the population get to buy it. Why can't they just distribute whatever they can amongst all the countries? Why pick America first? It may be easier and logistically cheaper but so ********* what, how about customer satisfaction? how about keeping us loyal? have you heard of the word 'alienated' Apple?

Anyone agree with me?

smartypantsguy
Mar 29, 2004, 02:37 AM
The message to "us" is: "The americans are getting the iPod minis now that were meant for you!"

Thank you very much! That's a nice way to treat customers. Not to forget that Apple always makes an extra buck or two by way to high prices for their stuff.

Shall I go on?

groovebuster

Again, I have to say, grow up. Take it on the chin. - Life will go on. You'll survive...

You know you'll wait for the mini. It's just so delicious & cool...

takao
Mar 29, 2004, 03:22 AM
You think Apple WANTS to alienate a continent? No, I don't think so...

sorry for falling in your discussion again but for europeans it looks exactly this way
maybe they didn't expected the success of the ipodmini (this success is really good for them)but this doesn't help them either....
european dependancies are playing these delay/price 20% more than in the US (without taxes) games for years... because of that _a lot_ of my friends and families that were really mac fans switched to the PC ...they hated the arrogant attitude against european customers.... and how many are looking back and care about the company they loved ? zip,nada,zero....i never owned a mac but i care about apple as a company and always like their products....because of this my next computer will be be my first apple

but saying apple knows what they are doing _in europe_ is a slap in the face
with the introduction of the PMG5 in the last year and (even important) the introduction of the G4 iBook (more than 30-40% sold macs are this ones) there where the wind of change in the air...just like back when they introduced the original iMac..
their numbers of sold machines increased about 62% in 2003 compared to 2002 (about 12 percent for the whole market of PCs) and now they think they can play games again ?
apple is still far from "being a premium brand" in europe like they were in the past (and are still in the USA) the mindshare of apple as company is rather bad (simple marketing: 1 unhappy customer outweights 10 happy ones)
the big brother of apple: IBM (oh the irony) is doing far better than apple, customers look at that company for superior built quality,service and _fair_ prices (for what they offer)
when people hear about apple they think: overpriced,not compatible,screwing up customers,fanatic zealots,graphics designers...in this order ...

my sister liked the look of the iBook: i asked her "why not ?"
she:"i would never buy an apple"
she found an apple-like notebook instead
well at least i convinced her to use iTunes for windows (which is used by every familiy member now ;-) )
but the same thing happend with myself recommending ipod to people who want to buy some mp3 players i got answers like :"an apple ? i would rather buy a sony mp3 player ... hahahaha"

and just an addition : dell has market share about 14% here compared to 30% in america so it's not those "el-cheap-o" pcs or dell djs (whatever that is) which cause bad opionions... it's apples own fault

pepita
Mar 29, 2004, 06:31 AM
They would probably want to open only one iTMS, but it would probably be easier to do one for each country (local artists get more space and such - which is a huge selling point). Besides, they already do this with the Apple Store and iPhoto - also invoicing in local currency. Fairly easy for everyone to relate to :)

Good points... I don't mind whatever they choose to do with local stores, as long as they do find a fair way to convert prices.

In other words, I wouldn't be too pleased if they sold each song for 0.99 euros ...

Well, we'll just have to wait and see. :)

pepita
Mar 29, 2004, 06:54 AM
Originally Posted by smartypantsguy

You think Apple WANTS to alienate a continent? No, I don't think so...

sorry for falling in your discussion again but for europeans it looks exactly this way

Speak for yourself, amigo. That's your opinion, not "europeans". Maybe the arrogance is in pretending to speak for everybody? You think Apple's behaviour to the European market sucks, well, there's people who may agree with you, and there's people who don't. There's people who are satisfied with Apple products, there's people who aren't. There's people who prefer, or want, or need a PC instead. It's a free world.

I personally don't see any slap in the faces. The mini delay is a nuisance, a mistake, whatever, but I don't see why it should be read as a case of Apple intentionally treating its customers outside the US badly. Why would they intentionally kick themselves in the foot like that? They'd be making more money right now if the minis were already available all over the world, doh. They'd be making even more money if the iTunes Music Store had already been available worldwide the same date it opened in the US. It only stands to logic that kind of thing is not their own choosing.

I've never seen any substantial difference in the way Apple operates in the US or here. Products and assistance and customer policies are the very same. You only need to own a Mac or two yourself to realise that.

takao
Mar 29, 2004, 07:59 AM
I've never seen any substantial difference in the way Apple operates in the US or here. Products and assistance and customer policies are the very same. You only need to own a Mac or two yourself to realise that.

well 20% price difference compared to US on average is not nothing (without taxes of coures) but there are countries in which it is worse...
the prices for other international electronic/computer companies aren't so much different between
well it's my opinion based on personal experience... sorry for generalizing i was a little bit in rage because of some other comments made by others...
i have no problem with the products or Apple US (there awesome/doing a good job) but i'm still doubtfull that my saving up for a apple instead going for PC was a wise decision...
i hope those european prices really have a good justification (and not there aren't any import-tarifs on computers)
those frequent "bad" news (good news for apple but sounds bad for potential customer) keep switchers away or scares them like hell (like hell)

personal addition: i renamed my "save-up-for-iBook" fond into "i-want-a-powermac-with-widescreen-tft" fond after visiting the local apple shop...so perhaps thats the reason for the doubts about cost justification ..i guess i'll have to wait if some other apple computers will apear until september 2005..a smaller pro-sumerm achine would be nice

pepita
Mar 29, 2004, 10:02 AM
well it's my opinion based on personal experience... sorry for generalizing i was a little bit in rage because of some other comments made by others...

Fair enough. I'm sorry for sounding like I was preaching about the worship of Apple or something :rolleyes: :p

Of course there are reasons to complain esp. when it comes to prices - or tech assistance, and other things. I just wouldn't roll every issue into one, you know? Product quality is one thing, customer assistance is another, delays and availability of items yet another... In the end, it is about the products first of all, and in that respect, Apple has a very good reputation pretty much everywhere. For a relatively niche market, but still. Better cater to a niche than sell crap in supermarkets, I think.

i have no problem with the products or Apple US (there awesome/doing a good job) but i'm still doubtfull that my saving up for a apple instead going for PC was a wise decision...

I think it just depends on what you do with your computer. You might prefer Macs, but there are still some fields of work where you need a PC - or, are forced to use a PC because you don't get software for Mac, or your company won't use Macs, etc.. I don't know, I don't think the impressions about the company and its marketing strategies count as much as the practical considerations about the product itself. Unless you're a shareholder!

i hope those european prices really have a good justification (and not there aren't any import-tarifs on computers)

Are you sure? As far as a I know, there are. A couple of times in the past years I ordered computer parts - hard disks, or RAM, or firewire enclosures - directly from the US. I had to pay quite a lot to customs and it was very annoying, so I didn't bother again. I don't know if that's changed recently, but as far as I know, there's still import duties on computer products (and not only) coming from the US - and conversely, products imported into the US.

They call it the "free" market :rolleyes:

those frequent "bad" news (good news for apple but sounds bad for potential customer) keep switchers away or scares them like hell (like hell)

I don't know, again, seems to me people take more into account the pros and cons of the product itself, and relating to their own needs, than news about the company. I frankly couldn't care less how many people switch to Macs or prefer PCs. As long as the stuff I buy is good enough for me, lasts me a while, and is reliable, I'm happy with it.

Besides, prices have gone down a lot too, with the new iMacs, eMacs, even laptops. 10 years ago I spent on a Performa nearly as much as I'd spend today to get a new PowerBook...

If there's one Apple thing that costs too much, it's the iPods. Then again, the smaller the gadget, the higher the price...

takao
Mar 29, 2004, 12:05 PM
Are you sure? As far as a I know, there are. A couple of times in the past years I ordered computer parts - hard disks, or RAM, or firewire enclosures - directly from the US. I had to pay quite a lot to customs and it was very annoying, so I didn't bother again. I don't know if that's changed recently, but as far as I know, there's still import duties on computer products (and not only) coming from the US - and conversely, products imported into the US.

They call it the "free" market :rolleyes:

i've written an e-mail to my father, which works in a logistics company and has to deal with the Eu-tarifs everday(he's working in the bureau at the swiss border) i expect an answer tommorw i can private msg. it to you
i've found the Eu-Costum-Tarifs in the internet but to find something there is nearly impossible
:rolleyes:

pepita
Mar 29, 2004, 01:14 PM
i've written an e-mail to my father, which works in a logistics company and has to deal with the Eu-tarifs everday(he's working in the bureau at the swiss border) i expect an answer tommorw i can private msg. it to you
i've found the Eu-Costum-Tarifs in the internet but to find something there is nearly impossible
:rolleyes:

Try here (http://web.ita.doc.gov/ITI/itiHome.nsf/9b2cb14bda00318585256cc40068ca69/02a8ed8c1550b42a85256d8100739caa!OpenDocument)

You may be right after all. No import taxes on computer hardware and software.

Hmm.... :confused:

Waragainstsleep
Mar 29, 2004, 01:16 PM
Did anyone hear the other reason the mini sold out?
Digital Photography nuts.

I heard a bunch of people bought them, just to rip out those oh-so-precious 4GB microdrives. They heard they were based on smartcard technology, and thought they could use them in their digital cameras. The iPod mini costs half as much as the 4GB digicam smartcard drives, so thats why they all rushed out to get one.

Of course, they don't actually work in digicams.