Students [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 04:52 PM

wordmunger

Mar 25, 2004, 05:05 PM

Hello,

I am about to enter University. I have narrowed my choices to either a 20 inch iMac, or a powerbook (size yet to be decided). As for needs, I want to game, and be able to fool around with iMovie and hopefully produce some nice looking videos. Of course I'll need microsoft office for my work. Keep in mind that I am 100% Windows at the moment and always have been. Are there any students out there who could aid in my selection and provide insight in to what is really needed as far as software and apple peripherials, upgrades for University? Thanks a lot!!

ALSO...do you students use laptops or desktops? What do you think is better for University?
Powerbook. Much better for working in the library, taking to class, working in small groups. You lose a little in monitor size/superdrive speed, but that's about it. Either computer will run today's games, but probably won't run the new games of one year from now.

Regarding software/peripherals, it completely depends on your major. Most majors will probably be fine with just MS Office and iLife, but if you'll be doing Web design, you'll need the software for that, etc. Engineering would need its own set of tools. At a minimum, you probably want a decent image editor--Photoshop Elements or even full Photoshop.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 05:12 PM

Powerbook. Much better for working in the library, taking to class, working in small groups. You lose a little in monitor size/superdrive speed, but that's about it. Either computer will run today's games, but probably won't run the new games of one year from now.

Regarding software/peripherals, it completely depends on your major. Most majors will probably be fine with just MS Office and iLife, but if you'll be doing Web design, you'll need the software for that, etc. Engineering would need its own set of tools. At a minimum, you probably want a decent image editor--Photoshop Elements or even full Photoshop.

ok well i am entering Med-Sciences, eventually applying for Med School. So all I really need is to game and type up labs, and fool around with iLife.

Stolid

Mar 25, 2004, 05:14 PM

jxyama

Mar 25, 2004, 05:14 PM

i agree, powerbook. iMac is not any faster than any of the PBs. you are paying for the screen... for the loss of a little bit of screen real estate, portability will more than make up for it on the PB.

jumpman25

Mar 25, 2004, 05:15 PM

Hello,

I am about to enter University. I have narrowed my choices to either a 20 inch iMac, or a powerbook (size yet to be decided). As for needs, I want to game, and be able to fool around with iMovie and hopefully produce some nice looking videos. Of course I'll need microsoft office for my work. Keep in mind that I am 100% Windows at the moment and always have been. Are there any students out there who could aid in my selection and provide insight in to what is really needed as far as software and apple peripherials, upgrades for University? Thanks a lot!!

ALSO...do you students use laptops or desktops? What do you think is better for University?

I would reccomend a 15" powerbook for your needs. The ati radeon 9600 should be able to run most games, vs the go5200 in the 12" which is lower end and would have trouble running some games. You will most likely want a laptop for college. They come in handy for taking notes, and its just nice to be able to sit in bed or on a couch vs sitting in a chair and being stuck to a desk. I have had beasty desktops over the years and when it come down to it, I end up using my 600MHz celeron laptop 10 times more than the deskop that is sitting right next to me. I just don't like sitting in a chair for five or six hours straight while typing a paper. I am planning on buying a powerbook in the next few weeks for college (still deciding between 12" and 15"), but a desktop was out of the question from square 1.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 05:16 PM

I'd recommend the powerbook; but I might ask what you have at the moment (if anything). You listed games as your very first requirement, and if thats something you're really into I might recommend you buy an iBook and a console/PC.
Save some money though; get as little RAM in the box as you can and add it yourself later, Apple's prices are far above market.

Well at the moment I am using a 2.6 Ghz PC, Winblows XP. 512 RAM, runs battlefield 1942 fairly good.....I love freewheeling with Adobe Premiere and making movies tho, just for fun not for a professional gig.

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 05:16 PM

I'm not a student, but my nephew is, and I can probably at least supply you with a few of the things that led him to get a 1.6 GHz PowerMac (last fall):

(1) The PowerBook line is great; however, it is also a very tempting target of theft. If you know you can keep it safe, consider getting one. If not, desktops are a lot less of a target.

(2) PowerBook and iMac video is non-upgradeable. Period. Even, as far as I know, if you're willing to hack a bit. As a gamer, that might be an issue for you.

(3) Become a student, then buy. Student discount, baby! Actually, I guess you likely qualify already....

(4) Consider a PowerMac and a cheap monitor. Upgrade the monitor later. Upgrade the video later. Upgrade the hard disk later. All of these things aren't real options for PowerBooks or iMacs. Plus, the sheer heft of the G5 will discourage non-football players from even attempting to steal it.

(5) Virtual PC does not currently run on a G5. However, all educated guesses point to MS releasing a version which does in a few months.

All in all, I'd spend the bucks on a G5 - dual 1.8 if you can afford it, or wait for the (supposedly) impending announcements to see if something better comes out. The PowerBook is a remarkable system (any of them), but they aren't great gaming systems, they aren't expandable internally, and they're G4s. That said, if you can ensure its safety, a PB can go with you to class. A desktop can't.

The iMacs are great. My brother has a new 20", and I've got an older 17". By far, these are the best-looking Macs. However, they are also non-upgradeable, and only fair at gaming. And you're screwed (as with the PB) if the screen gets smashed; college can get rowdy, and you never know when a football might come sailing in.

I don't think you can go wrong with either a PB or an iMac. But, for what you said (gaming, iMovie), a G5 is probably a better buy. If it's too expensive, a dual-G4 PowerMac would at least give you expandability and replaceable video cards, a gaming must. :)

Edit:

I agree about laptop portability. Just keep in mind that, if your priority is gaming and iLife, you're going to have just enough power now, and likely not enough later. However, portability is a definite plus. If you get a laptop, look into insurance (AppleCare, of course, but that doesn't cover theft, dropping it, etc.). Laptops are much more likely to get broken. No insurance? You're screwed.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 05:20 PM

KershMan

Mar 25, 2004, 05:21 PM

My vote is with the PowerBook as well. You can't beat the portability. It will come in handy. Also, look at http://www.academicsuperstore.com for software. It is a great place to find all the software you need at academic prices. Mac titles abound.

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 05:23 PM

Thanks for your time for that lengthy reply. All this helps!

Well come to think of it if i was going to go desktop I would get a tower, and mash the iMac idea because I need my gaming and always am buying the latest and greatest games

I guess the only issue with me is that if I buy a desktop, will i regret it later when I can't be bombing around with a laptop...ie. to the library or home (PC dominated)? Any thoughts on this?

Have you ruled out a cheap (sub $1000) laptop, possibly even refurbed (Mac or PC) for note taking? Then you'd have what you need at "home", but you'd be able to take notes anywhere. If you're just going to do note taking, just about any notebook will work.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 05:25 PM

Well that seems like an interesting idea however would you think that 1000$ or so would be much better spent in the main tower?

Stolid

Mar 25, 2004, 05:26 PM

Well at the moment I am using a 2.6 Ghz PC, Winblows XP. 512 RAM, runs battlefield 1942 fairly good.....I love freewheeling with Adobe Premiere and making movies tho, just for fun not for a professional gig.
A box that fast will probably be about on par with any Mac machine (you could get better with a 'dual 2.0 G5 and 8 gigs of RAM' and all but you know what I mean); I have a 2.2 GHz Laptop (P4m) which I use for all my games and have not found much that will 'choke' her -- in a desktop where replacing the video card (the real bottleneck more oft than not) is easy so you're set even more.
Perhaps get the PowerBook and /promise/ yourself not to put ANY games on it beyond Chess and turn the PC into your game machine? That's what I'm doing when I get my book and hopefully it'll improve my time management skills :)

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 05:36 PM

Well that seems like an interesting idea however would you think that 1000$ or so would be much better spent in the main tower?

Maybe eventually, but you'd have plenty of fun with what you got until a new graphics card came out. I don't think, for example, that the 9800 is worth the $300 premium - I think something better will be out soon.

However, you can buy a cheap laptop (used) for $500 or less - more than enough for note-taking. In fact, you might even know someone with an old one they'd sell to you. For example, you can usually buy a G3 Pismo (which runs 10.3.3 and is newer than the G3 Lombard PB I own) that'll work quite well, and I'm guessing a PC notebook would be even cheaper. All you need is a screen, a keypad, and something for a hard disk.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 05:45 PM

ok...well what do you think about this idea:

-G5 dual 2.0ghz, 512 RAM, 9600 ATI Card, Superdrive etc. etc. (this is my gamer)
-Cheap Monitor
-A garbage laptop for notes and study groups and such.

Probably amount to around 4500-5000$ Canadian i imagine.

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 05:59 PM

...
-G5 dual 2.0ghz, 512 RAM, 9600 ATI Card, Superdrive etc. etc. (this is my gamer).

Looks good - but arguably the 1.8GHz dual is a better deal - only marginally slower, and the price difference is enough to buy the "garbage" laptop outright - and you could still buy a better graphics card later.

I've got the dual-2, and it kicks butt, but, if the dual 1.8 had been around when I bought this (it was just a single 1.8 then) I would likely have gotten it. The performance delta just isn't worth the cost, I don't think. Maybe others feel differently.

If you can, I'd wait a bit to see if the fabled announcements occur. If not, make sure you get that student discount!

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 06:01 PM

Forgot to mention:

Be sure to save some money to buy 3rd party RAM (never buy extra RAM from Apple!!!). And be sure it's right for your system. Apple G5's are very picky about their RAM. I'd recommend at least going up to 1GB (extra 512MB).

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 06:03 PM

If you do go with the G5, I just wanted to make sure you knew that they come with a DVI->VGA adapter (and ADC and DVI on the graphics card), so basically you can plug in any monitor you want.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 06:03 PM

If you can, I'd wait a bit to see if the fabled announcements occur. If not, make sure you get that student discount!

At the university my brother currently attends i can get the G5 dual 1.8 for 2949$, reg price at apple.ca 3499$...I guess then i could get a better video card, more RAM and a monitor I guess I would get a cheap PC lappy, it wouldn't really matter what kind of laptop it is would it?

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 06:13 PM

At the university my brother currently attends i can get the G5 dual 1.8 for 2949$, reg price at apple.ca 3499$...I guess then i could get a better video card, more RAM and a monitor I guess I would get a cheap PC lappy, it wouldn't really matter what kind of laptop it is would it?

I think any laptop would do - the Mac would be able to read/write its files (and you could either network them or use a USB flashdrive - just make sure the notebook has a USB port).

Definitely upgrade the RAM (not via Apple). Consider waiting on the video card upgrade until someone announces something better. $300US is a lot to pay for the 9600->9800 upgrade for a relatively old card.

ionas

Mar 25, 2004, 06:14 PM

1. use a notebook and a home computer or a notebook; dont just use a home computer; if you can only finance one, get a PowerBook 15"; take the cheapest variant, and put in some RAM from 3rd party (like crucial) if you need more speed.

2. get a apple developer connection student account and purchanse an "ADC Student Membership Gift Certificate" - that will cost 99 USD/$ - you will be able to purchase a powerbook with 20% off then!!1111111111111111111

(thats huge!)

here you will find more information

usa:
http://developer.apple.com/students/#enroll

europe:
http://developer.apple.com/membership/europe.html#COUNTRIES

http://developer.apple.com/students/gift/index.html
http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/ADC?qprm=38839

have fun :)

Stolid

Mar 25, 2004, 06:16 PM

A hint: if you're getting something this big look into getting an ADC student membership ($100 and proof of enrollment). ADC student members get 1 purchase at the ADC price; which is insanely low.
For more information:
http://developer.apple.com for the ADC
http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html - for the store. Click on the "US Hardware Purchase Program Store"

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 06:21 PM

EXCELLENT idea(s) about the ADC membership - I forgot that you students got them so cheap!

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 06:27 PM

EXCELLENT idea(s) about the ADC membership - I forgot that you students got them so cheap!

Does anyone have that membership and what it is exactly, i went to the Apple site and it is a bet sketchy as to what it is all about

jsw

Mar 25, 2004, 06:43 PM

The best thing about ADC is the discount - which is really only worthwhile if you can get the student price (otherwise, it's $500US or more).

See here (http://developer.apple.com/students/sthardware.html) for details on the hardware discount and here (http://developer.apple.com/students/index.html) for overall info.

If you're truly a developer, the membership is worth it for advanced peeks at what's coming, but, for you, the discount part is a no-brainer.

crowdaddy

Mar 25, 2004, 06:50 PM

Well i read that the ADC Student version does not get access to pre-release beta tests and such. So I guess its a good deal, you pay 99US and i get around a 600$ discount on a system...I like..!

MictXP

Mar 26, 2004, 11:46 AM

I know this going to contrast most of what other people have been saying, but that's what discussion is all about. I am currently a student, and can tell you that the best part about having a 12" PB is being able to surf and email on my bed or on my couch. Homework, notetaking? Nothing beats pen and paper.

My major is writing intensive, and I will occasionally write a paper someplace other than my room. But it's really not that different than when I had a desktop -- the paper still has to get done, and I'm still in my room doing it. Most of my friends with laptops take them off their desks about every other week. Now those are huge Dell laptops, and not the slim and sexy 12" PB. I'll bring mine out to the living room about every day -- but it's just for fun.

If you're happy with your PC machine (and are able to take it to college with you), then keep it. There's stuff you can't do on a Mac that a PC is good for. Get a PB, and use your PC for the games and heavy data crunching. You will use the PB's portability.

If you want just one computer, I'd say wait until school starts (August or September?), and get a Mac then. There's bound to be upgrades by then. A G5 is cheaper than a 20" iMac -- I would go with the G5.

Having said that, I am extremely happy with my PB. If I were to do it again, I would get another 12" PB. But I do have my Windows desktop to do all my heavier computer stuff.

tiktokfx

Mar 26, 2004, 11:58 AM

I would go with the reverse of what I'm seeing suggested.

Spend more money on a good PowerBook, whatever size you like best (I've got a 12", great computer). It won't be the fastest thing available, but you won't care, believe me. It'll be fast enough for what you want to do.

Then buy a nice quality CRT for cheap. Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 930SBs are gorgeous, got mine for about $300 from Dell.

Then just use a cheap PC for gaming. Slap a good video card in, smallish hard drive and be done with it.

mrgreen4242

Mar 26, 2004, 02:08 PM

Well, as a student, here's my take... Sounds like you are a PC user atm, as am I. But you are looking to 'switch' presumably for the improved user experience, and not the gaming available!

So I would point you towards grabbing a high end 15" powerbook for now. (well, wait untill closer till the school year starts, if you look around the forum, you will see it is my opinion, as well as many others, that new PB models are on the way).

As mentioned earlier, the 15" PBs will run just about any of the games available right now with any issues. If there is a decent bump in PB specs this summer (slightly faster CPUs, more vram) then it'll just be gravy.

For general computer usage, you can't go wrong with a new PB, especially the 1.25ghz w/ the superdrive. It'll probably get you all the way thru med school for non-gaming usage!

Anways, that'll be significantly cheaper than getting a powermac, and you probably won't miss the extra power right away. By the time you start to see games come out that require more 'juice' the next generation of consoles will be hitting the shelves. From all accounts the XBox2 and PS3 are going to pretty much low away PC based gaming anyways, and more and more games are going to be first run on consoles. Grab a nice HDTV then too, you'll still be spending less than you would have on a powermac. Your DVDs will look oh so nice then as well!

The point is that your PB will still be a perfectly viable computer for general use and light, on the go gaming, and you will still get all the newest video games. Plus when the next greatest video game systems come out, you will only have to invest another $300 or so, which about the cost of the latest and greatest video card for a computer.

As a current PC gamer, and someone looking at making a mac switch shortly, this is honestly where I see myself in about 12-18 months. I think that's the way the world is moving...

Hope all that helps!

Rob

PS I was looking at the ADC program myself. The discount on a PowerBook is about US$200-300 over and above the educational pricing depending on what you buy, and the membership is US$100, so the net savigns of a $100-200 is pretty decent, but it is a ONCE in a lifetime deal (at least thats how I understand it, correct me if I am wrong), so you may want to save it for later if money isn't an issue now and it may become one at a later dae (ie, when Med school bills start to pile up and you are thinking about upgrading). Jus a thought. :)

jxyama

Mar 26, 2004, 02:36 PM

-G5 dual 2.0ghz, 512 RAM, 9600 ATI Card, Superdrive etc. etc. (this is my gamer)

to me, that's a waste. get a PC tower to play games and invest the rest in getting a nice 15" PB for video/iMovie/etc.

getting a dual G5 mostly for gaming is a waste, no matter how much you like Macs.

crowdaddy

Mar 27, 2004, 05:46 PM

to me, that's a waste. get a PC tower to play games and invest the rest in getting a nice 15" PB for video/iMovie/etc.

getting a dual G5 mostly for gaming is a waste, no matter how much you like Macs.

What would the problem be with getting a 1.8 Dual G5 1GB ram for gaming? I hardly think it would be a waste because the games keep pushing the envelope with system specs....

jxyama

Mar 29, 2004, 09:23 AM

it's a waste because gaming on Mac, both hardware (mainly videocard) and software, generally are behind those on PCs, are less performant and cost more.

it's like getting a top of the line digital camcorder so you can shoot still images - there are cheaper and better options.

getting G5s (mostly) for gaming is not worth it - it's marginally better than G4s just because gaming on Macs is lackluster in general. no amount of computing power can make up for that general trend. i'm not saying gaming is non-existent in Macs, but i hope you see my point. there are, however, things Macs do very, very well and i feel that your money will be better spent on a fully spec'ed PowerBook.

crowdaddy

Mar 29, 2004, 12:23 PM

3-22

Mar 29, 2004, 12:51 PM

Well i read that the ADC Student version does not get access to pre-release beta tests and such. So I guess its a good deal, you pay 99US and i get around a 600$ discount on a system...I like..!

Student ADC is great! True you won't get pre-release betaware. But you will save a heap of money on your single ADC order, plus receive upgrades. I received both a copy of OS X 10.2 and 10.3 CD's free as a member. It will pay for itself many times over and is very easy to get setup.

jxyama

Mar 29, 2004, 12:58 PM

Ok if i fully spec'd a powerbook, 15inch lets say, would I still be able to run games like battlefield and such at a tolerable level?

Also, can you dock the laptop so you can use a CRT, regular keyboard/mouse in your dorm room?

i don't know how you mean "tolerable" but 15" PB will run any Mac games as well as any other Macs. it may not be as good as PCs, but chances are, if 15" PB can't run the game well, then G5 will not be much better.

PB will connect to any DVI or VGA monitors, you may need an adapter, though. check included accessories for the PB. if by "regular" you mean USB, then keyboard and mouse will connect to the PB. if it's a PS/2 style PC keyboard/mouse, then no Mac will be able to use them, not just PB and you will need a PS/2 -> USB adapter.

Jovian9

Mar 29, 2004, 02:29 PM

I do not think you can go wrong with any of these choices.....except for an eMac or a 12" iBook. My wife and I had a 12" G4 iBook and size and power were not enough for us (so we sold it and bought a 17" PowerBook....which we love.....bought it refurbished in the special deals section at the apple store.......GREAT DEAL!). eMacs and iMacs are not really upgradeable.....but the difference is design and function. 2 friends of mine have eMacs with the exact specs as my 17" 1GHz iMac G4 SD but they are just not as great to use.....why?.....b/c if you sit at a computer for hours at a time you just cannot beat the mobile abilities of the iMac screen....it adjusts to your constant sinking into the chair you are sitting in. If I were you I'd get a refurbished PowerBook and either a refurbished G5 or a refurbished iMac....this setup works great for my wife and I who are on computers all the time (school, music, web development, creating films, photographs, etc.)....and if you are not comfortable with refurbs, be sure to follow the advice of others about the Developer Discount.

baby duck monge

Mar 29, 2004, 04:00 PM

PS I was looking at the ADC program myself. The discount on a PowerBook is about US$200-300 over and above the educational pricing depending on what you buy, and the membership is US$100, so the net savigns of a $100-200 is pretty decent, but it is a ONCE in a lifetime deal (at least thats how I understand it, correct me if I am wrong), so you may want to save it for later if money isn't an issue now and it may become one at a later dae (ie, when Med school bills start to pile up and you are thinking about upgrading). Jus a thought. :)

someone please correct me if i am wrong, but i'm pretty sure it's one purchase with the discount per membership year. like when your year is up if you renew you could get another purchase. that makes much more sense.

mrgreen4242

Mar 29, 2004, 04:15 PM

someone please correct me if i am wrong, but i'm pretty sure it's one purchase with the discount per membership year. like when your year is up if you renew you could get another purchase. that makes much more sense.

Ok, since I wasn't sure, and we both had different impressions of the deal, I did a little checking... according to http://developer.apple.com/students/sthardware.html ... Eligible ADC Student Program members in the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan may take advantage of a special, one-time hardware discount per lifetime (non-renewable and subject to change).
So it looks like it is indeed a one shot discount... something that may be better saved for the purchase of a powermac and a big 'old LCD (greater discount if you buy more expensive stufff). But, if you don't intend to get a PM before you graduate, and the laptop is going to be it for you 'till then, no sense in not using it.

Rob

jxyama

Mar 29, 2004, 04:19 PM

Ok, since I wasn't sure, and we both had different impressions of the deal, I did a little checking... according to http://developer.apple.com/students/sthardware.html ... So it looks like it is indeed a one shot discount... something that may be better saved for the purchase of a powermac and a big 'old LCD (greater discount if you buy more expensive stufff). But, if you don't intend to get a PM before you graduate, and the laptop is going to be it for you 'till then, no sense in not using it.

Rob

it's once a lifetime for student ADC members... for "regular" ADC members, it's one per year after the first year, i believe...