International customers are 2nd class citizens!

[hkriffraff]

I've been eagerly waiting to place my order for an iPod mini since Macworld. Now a few days before April, Apple suddenly announces that due to high demand - in fact they won't be available internationally until July. Is this something they only just realized a few days before April? Why does demand by US customers have to be catered to for 5 months before anyone else can have one?

It's not just this - no iTunes availability, no education discounts for students in other countries...

[jade]

I've been eagerly waiting to place my order for an iPod mini since Macworld. Now a few days before April, Apple suddenly announces that due to high demand - in fact they won't be available internationally until July. Is this something they only just realized a few days before April? Why does demand by US customers have to be catered to for 5 months before anyone else can have one?

It's not just this - no iTunes availability, no education discounts for students in other countries...


I agree but Apple is an American company.......we don't get the coolest Sony products here, or nifty Nokia cell phones, or cool philips home entertainment stuff. The world is getting global, but you don't expand at the expense of your home market.

[hkriffraff]

I thought that new products were first available in Asia because the asian consumer is more eager to adopt new gadgets, electronics makers view it as test marketing, and the stuff is all made in Asia to begin with.

I think it stinks that they announce a firm release date, causing international customers to wait several months and then announce a delay of several months only days before that date.

I agree but Apple is an American company.......we don't get the coolest Sony products here, or nifty Nokia cell phones, or cool philips home entertainment stuff. The world is getting global, but you don't expand at the expense of your home market.

[smeddy]

its all about money. if they could make more money elsewhere, they would do it. actually that may not be true. since they jack up prices so much in japan we should be getting everything first over here. its an american company, so it should not be surprising that the latest and greatest should be released in america first...

but in japan we do get education discounts. in fact i think they are better than the education discounts in the states...


I've been eagerly waiting to place my order for an iPod mini since Macworld. Now a few days before April, Apple suddenly announces that due to high demand - in fact they won't be available internationally until July. Is this something they only just realized a few days before April? Why does demand by US customers have to be catered to for 5 months before anyone else can have one?

It's not just this - no iTunes availability, no education discounts for students in other countries...

[Krizoitz]

I thought that new products were first available in Asia because the asian consumer is more eager to adopt new gadgets, electronics makers view it as test marketing, and the stuff is all made in Asia to begin with.

I think it stinks that they announce a firm release date, causing international customers to wait several months and then announce a delay of several months only days before that date.

they release it in asia because most of the companies mentioned are based in Asia, primarily Japan, so they target a local market first. happens all the time. For Apple their bread and butter market is the US. Its the one most of the shareholders are in, its the one where most of the industry people and media they need to impress are in, its the one they understand best. As much success as Apple has had and as much as we all love the company, it is a relatively small one, it doesn't have the money/resources to do massive roll outs like Sony or IBM can. Believe me if it were logistically feaible for Apple to release iPod mini's worldwide sooner they would do so. The Japanese market alone will probably be a cash cow for them because of the value placed on small and fancy products in that area. The delay may have been unavoidble, and at least they announced it rather than side stepping the issue. Really Apple isn't out to stick it to international customers, they are just limited.

[aswitcher]

I can understand the mini iPod thing.

What does get my goat is the lack of similiar specials in foreign countries, like all the .Mac specials.

Also the markups for foreigners are 20-35% higher than the exchange rate, far above the cost of shipping and local taxes...and Apple forbid others to directly import and sell, so their is no real competition even though local resellers could source directly from Retail Stores in the states and ake a profit selling locally.

[JFreak]

Also the markups for foreigners are 20-35% higher than the exchange rate, far above the cost of shipping and local taxes...

yep.
regular ipod 20G --> 399 us dollars (us apple store) --> 449 euros (finnish apple store)
at the current rate of 1.21 us dollars per 1 euro, the american ipod should cost 329 euros so we are paying 36.5% extra, which of course includes tax but anyway.

or calculated the other way, the european ipod translates to 543 dollars. that's a high price for an ipod...

(on the other hand i just got one green iMac G3@400/512MB for free so i cannot complain the pricing of that beauty.)

[aswitcher]

yep.
regular ipod 20G --> 399 us dollars (us apple store) --> 449 euros (finnish apple store)
at the current rate of 1.21 us dollars per 1 euro, the american ipod should cost 329 euros so we are paying 36.5% extra, which of course includes tax but anyway.
SNIP

In Australia iPods are perhaps the only thing that are anywhere near the right exchange rate 7-12% or so...so right on the money. If only there high end (power line) was like that...

[superbovine]

i think it has to do with ppl that already paid for their ipods and still waiting for them. apple wants the whole world to buy the ipod. i am sure they are making them as fast as they can, or to put it a better way there is no 4 gb microdrives to put in the ipods.

[Savage Henry]

In America the iPod, iTMS and new iMac make Time magazine, one of the biggest names in magazine publishing and sells by the millions to such a wide range of consumers.

In the UK, Apple products make the pages of the tech mags and a couple of meeja mags looking to ride the next bandwagon.

The America market is the one you want to serve better because it's the one thats alive. The soon-to-be UK London store is targetting a considerable amount of tourist money. If the prices were as cheap overseas their domestic target market would not support it. Apple is not in the cultural psyche as much as the US.

So I am happy for Apple to feed the Americans with the newer cheaper lines, it's what keeps the company alive.

[Chappers]

I thought it was the UK market that had done so well with the iPod. News reports across the web stated that. But hey we're used to it. We complain about it and the only thing that happens is that we get flamed for criticising Apple.

[aswitcher]

I wonder if Apple will find another drive supplier or even rush out revamp full sized iPods with mini iPod look...

[Savage Henry]

I thought it was the UK market that had done so well with the iPod. News reports across the web stated that. But hey we're used to it. We complain about it and the only thing that happens is that we get flamed for criticising Apple.

The only time I have seen the iPod in the mass broad media in the UK is when they talk of "must-have gifts this Christmas" or when there's fuss over the iPod battery.

For Apple to provide the UK with equivalent market conditions as in the US the brand has to have equivalent strength. If the iPod was made by Sony it still would have been bought in those numbers. The product could sell itself. Apple just doesn't have significant enough presence and too much stigma to get the UK masses to buy the rest of the Apple range.

Give it 2 years and it might, but only might.

[Pants]

I agree but Apple is an American company.......we don't get the coolest Sony products here, or nifty Nokia cell phones, or cool philips home entertainment stuff. The world is getting global, but you don't expand at the expense of your home market.

the reason you don't get nifty phones is simple. Your mobile phone network is different to the majority of the world. There is no such excuse for apple - and its not JUST products, its services - no iTMS, an awful repairs sytem and lets not forget the ridiculous mark ups that test even the most loyal non-US apple fan. This decision to not sell the mini smells of a weak dollar.

savage henry - I suppose the fact that you cannot pick up a lifestyle mag or sunday supplement and NOT see an ipod counts for nothing? How many other manufacturers release a product and get on the front of news.bbc.co.uk?

[ntg]

The only time I have seen the iPod in the mass broad media in the UK is when they talk of "must-have gifts this Christmas" or when there's fuss over the iPod battery.

For Apple to provide the UK with equivalent market conditions as in the US the brand has to have equivalent strength. If the iPod was made by Sony it still would have been bought in those numbers. The product could sell itself. Apple just doesn't have significant enough presence and too much stigma to get the UK masses to buy the rest of the Apple range.

Give it 2 years and it might, but only might.

So how come so many people who see my 20Gb iPod say " Oh yeah! That's that music player I saw advertised on Channel 4" and then promptly ask me where I can get one of the newer coloured ones...?

I think the whole problem here is that Apple has traditionally been lousy at advertising this side of the pond, hence the bigger single market is America.

However, I feel this is the vicious circle that needs to be broken by Apple before it's percentage market share will climb to the target 20% (or higher, but I hope not too much!)

After all, according to the market analysis, it's only approximately 50% of Apple products that are sold in America, and the rate of sales growth in Europe is far higher than America.

So come on Apple, stop keeping all your iPods in one basket! The kit is good, and will sell itself if only people are aware they can buy it!!
(I can't wait for the opening of the London store - I hope to be there!)

Nigel.

[Savage Henry]

So how come so many people who see my 20Gb iPod say " Oh yeah! That's that music player I saw advertised on Channel 4" and then promptly ask me where I can get one of the newer coloured ones...?

I think the whole problem here is that Apple has traditionally been lousy at advertising this side of the pond, hence the bigger single market is America.

However, I feel this is the vicious circle that needs to be broken by Apple before it's percentage market share will climb to the target 20% (or higher, but I hope not too much!)

After all, according to the market analysis, it's only approximately 50% of Apple products that are sold in America, and the rate of sales growth in Europe is far higher than America.

So come on Apple, stop keeping all your iPods in one basket! The kit is good, and will sell itself if only people are aware they can buy it!!
(I can't wait for the opening of the London store - I hope to be there!)

Nigel.

I couldn't agree with you more. My iPod makes my associates drool, but they have no interest in the rest of the Apple range. As you pointed out, the advertising and awareness needs to be that Apple is not just a serious contender, but also that it's products are technical leaders.

However although I also believe the capacity for growth in Europe is very high, the problem, and this is my opinion and not based on any facts, is that the market will not sustain a big push without enough substantiation. My three 'switcher' conditions I consider to be substantial enough:

1. iPod and iTMS success continues to blow out allcomers
2. Wintel virus numbers continue to rise unabated
3. Poor and unconvincing rollout of Longhorn

So that's why I give it 2 years.

Mr pants, it's not just about magasineas and newspapers, it's about consumer understanding. Two of the last three people I knew who wanted to buy a new PC were concerned about old fashioned things. One wanted value for money in disk space thinking a 200gb computer will always be better for him than one of 100gb. Another said the deal from Currys was ideal because it came with desk, printer, camera, scanner, and broadband (? - actually how it was sold, despite the fact she lived in a village on the far east coast of Yorkshire with no means of broadband connectivity). The third actually thought a little harder about what they were buying and plumped for an eMac, never looked back since.

The above 3 cases are not cross-sectional, but I think they confirm the lack of knowledge the UK market still has in procuring a computer. The US and the Japanese market is more sophisticated and so Apple should support them more, and then build on the above three conditions expand in the UK.

I'm not saying I'm right, it's just the feeling I've got with it all.

[blue&whiteman]

apple simply has a history of never making as much as needed of any product they bring out. all I can conclude is they like to keep us eager and hungry for more. pretty good business strategy. it also means no left over product sitting around that no one wants to buy. whenever a new product comes out or more are made of one they sold out of they always all get nabbed up fast.

[caveman_uk]

Has anyone tried ordering Apple stuff from Amazon.com in the states? I know they won't ship it to outside the US but they do accept a delivery address different to the credit card address and you could use toship.com to forward the package onto Europe.

[aswitcher]

the reason you don't get nifty phones is simple. Your mobile phone network is different to the majority of the world. There is no such excuse for apple - and its not JUST products, its services - no iTMS, an awful repairs sytem and lets not forget the ridiculous mark ups that test even the most loyal non-US apple fan. This decision to not sell the mini smells of a weak dollar.

SNIP

Yes, hadn't thought about the weak dollar being a factor.

[crenz]

no education discounts for students in other countries...

Not true. There are discounts (even substantial ones) for students and teachers in Germany.

[Savage Henry]

Yes, hadn't thought about the weak dollar being a factor.

I still can't get my head round it because:

Current lowest range iPod in UK sold for £249 @ $1.8exc = $448 US.

iPodmini expected to follow US pricing and be just below entry iPod, say £200 = $360

Current US iPodmin sold at $249 in US - they will stand to make over a hundred bucks on exchange rates per iPodmini.

:confused:

[Please note: very non-scientific and very high level analysis]

[Doraemon]

It's not just this - no iTunes availability, no education discounts for students in other countries...

Where are you from dude?

All of western Europe has edu discounts.

[ftaok]

the reason you don't get nifty phones is simple. Your mobile phone network is different to the majority of the world.
That's not true. There are 3 major carriers in the US that use the GSM network. Europe tends to get the GSM phones first. And the US doesn't get the cool CDMA phones used in China and Korea either.

This decision to not sell the mini smells of a weak dollar.
It would actually be an incentive for Apple to sell abroad during times of a weak dollar. When the dollar is weak, American companies who export make a whole lot more money.

[hkriffraff]

Not true. There are discounts (even substantial ones) for students and teachers in Germany.

Here in Hong Kong, there are no discounts for students. At my university, they announced a big back to school promotion in the summer, but the details of the promotion were not even released until late-October (after all other back to school promotions had ended). Some people waited and waited for this promotion, but it turned out they were just giving small discounts on G3 iBooks and iMacs for a couple weeks.

Apple certainly doesn't have the same commitment to education out here :(

[wordmunger]

Why does demand by US customers have to be catered to for 5 months before anyone else can have one?
The same reason Germans get BMWs earlier and cheaper, Japanese get cell phones sooner, and Hawaiians get the freshest pineapples. It's an American company. It's going to serve Americans first--especially when there's a limited supply.

[Colonel Panik]

In America the iPod, iTMS and new iMac make Time magazine, one of the biggest names in magazine publishing and sells by the millions to such a wide range of consumers.

In the UK, Apple products make the pages of the tech mags and a couple of meeja mags looking to ride the next bandwagon.


That's not true. Apple features on the BBC news from time to time. The iPod mini delay was reported on BBC TV News! And The Economist also reports on Apple from time to time.

Then again, when Europe is treated as not important, it's hard to get into European newspapers, isn't it?

Regarding the cost of products, do you know that I would save money if I flew to NYC and back, if I bought two Powerbooks to smuggle through customs? That's what people are really complaining about. I understand the usual arguments : "it's tarrifs" and so on, but even when the Euro is hammering the Dollar we don't get a break. I believe a lot of the prices were fixed at a weak Euro rate, and most American companies have been very very slow to change their pricing.
But even with the strong Euro, you don't want to know how much, say, an upgrade from the Adobe Publishing Collections to Adobe Creative Suite is in Europe.

[hkriffraff]

BMWs are made in germany, cell phones are made in asia, pineapples grow in hawaii. Apple products are mostly made in Taiwan.

As an alternative to the ubiquitous Wintel platform, we have all put our faith in this one company for our computing and increasingly our entertainment needs. Which is why it stinks that us international users get milked for more $, are expected to wait much longer for product releases (and get told at the last minute - oh, it'll be an extra 3 months for you guys). And we have no ITMS service, don't benefit from any .mac specials but at the same time don't get a price reduction.

The same reason Germans get BMWs earlier and cheaper, Japanese get cell phones sooner, and Hawaiians get the freshest pineapples. It's an American company. It's going to serve Americans first--especially when there's a limited supply.