Common Phrases that Can Annoy

[wdlove]

LET'S ADDRESS THE ISSUE

So, like, the Plain English Campaign has, like, come up with a list of the most irritating phrases in the language.

The fact of the matter is, some phrases are so grating, the group thinks they should be weeded out of the dictionary and erased from all memory.

Many of the phrases are used by boss-from-hell David Brent, vis-a-vis comedy series The Office. But not everyone finds them funny.

http://www.skynews.co.uk/skynews/article/0,,30000-1128606,00.html

[rainman::|:|]

i was surprised by this year's list... there were a lot i had never really heard, and quite a few of them are ones that i've never noticed being overused. And, all of the really obnoxious ones, like "literally", fell in the list. a few years ago, it was the #1 pick, and since then i insist on correcting people that misuse it (or just use it way too much). Overuse of the word "like", while a bit distracting, isn't really that annoying to me... i guess it's because i'm generation-Y, and i grew up with valley-girl speak...

paul

[stoid]

The fact of the matter is, some phrases are so grating, the group thinks they should be weeded out of the dictionary and erased from all memory.

WOW! The NewSpeak Dictionary First Edition!!!

I love Big Brother.

[keysersoze]

SWEET!!!!

oy.



:)

[Thomas Veil]

"Irregardless" is ungrammatical.

"I could care less" means the exact opposite of what people intend it to mean.

Ditto for "Doing a 360", which is not turning around to face the other way, but spinning completely around to end exactly where you began.

[rt_brained]

More annoying stuff...

I have a colleague who whistles non-sensical music all the time. I spent the whole day on-site today listening to this guy's stupid improvisational "happy whistle music" all...friggen....day.

Are people like that really that happy all the time?

[scem0]

"Let it all hang out" really annoys me.

I just can't get past what that connotates. :p:o

scem0

[Roger1]

"Let it all hang out" really annoys me.

I just can't get past what that connotates. :p:o

scem0

In my case, it would mean a fat guy wearing a medium size t shirt. Said guy has hairy belly. :p

[Sun Baked]

"I'll Be Back"...

But anything said by Pauly Shore that's repeated is definitely as annoying as the original.

[phrancpharmD]

"Fixin' to" (translation: just about to)

"Right quick" (translation: quickly or soon)

I can't stand either of these. Irregardless really bothers me a lot too. Sweet and phat used to, but I've gotten used to them now - I even use "phat" occasionally. It sucks being an adult; nobody uses "bitchin'" anymore. . .

:(

[Nermal]

Some things that annoy me are "my bad" instead of "my mistake", I've only ever heard Americans say that. Another one that annoys me is "near miss", which implies "nearly missed", even though it's used as "nearly hit".

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says...the one that bothers me the most is when people, usually politicians (do they still qualify as people?), preface something with "..the fact of the matter is..." when in reality what they say has little to do with fact and everything to do with "spin" and opinion.....oh yeah!

[whocares]

"Irregardless" is ungrammatical.

"I could care less" means the exact opposite of what people intend it to mean.(...)

That's why we say "I couldn't care less" on this side of the Atlantic. ;) :p :p

Or at least I do...

The words I can't stand are "kinda", "like" and all the possible combination of the type "it's like yunno, kinda like when..." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Also the "there is" instead of "there are" really catches my ear and 'hurts' it.

[Sun Baked]

That's why we say "I couldn't care less" on this side of the Atlantic. ;) :p :p"Freedom Fries" on this side of the Atlantic...

Sort of reminds me of a bunch of whiney school children that think they can get a case of Cooties from touching someone or saying a word.

Which explains the politicians that thought this up quite nicely.

[Sayhey]

My current most hated phrase is "all you all" or "all ya'awl"- made popular by the insipid Dr. Phil. I can understand "ya' all" as the second person plural, but what the heck does this mean?

[ecche]

It is not even a phrase, but the word 'like' as used by that Feiss girl for example drives me nuts.

Like i just don't like it or anything like it.

[pseudobrit]

I hate when people use "basically." "Basically what happened is that he went into..."

Of course that's basically what happened! Unless you hand me a novel, you're providing a summary! It's flippin' redundant! People just use it to sound authoritative and more intelligent.

"Actually" is another one I hate. What is the point of prefacing your statement with "actually" unless you otherwise lie every time you open your mouth?

[OutThere]

OMG!!! NOOO!!!! Not the NewSpeak Dictionary First Edition!!!

DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!
DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER!!

I think that we need to have an organised MR 2 minutes 'Hate' to combat this blatant thought crime...Stoid, expect a visit soon... :cool:

[Opteron]

Guess we'll just have to take it "One week at a time" :p

[frankzeg]

How about " touching base" or "open kimono" - sure two of the most annoying phrases used in a work setting.

Or getting "buy-in" from someone

The phrase "pre-coordination"

Other concepts in danger of overuse: "spiral development"

[Doctor Q]

It's probably just a regional thing, but I've never liked the phrase "serve up" when I would use "serve". Unless I'm standling on an incline, I don't serve up the salad, I serve the salad.

[coopdog]

"My bad"~ seriously next person to say that is getting a knife to the balls
"dude" again knife to balls
"Just trust me" and then they end up ****ing it all up
"have a great day" Don't tell me what to do bitch
"hella"
"fo sho"
"sweet"
"bro"
"killa"
"sup"
"no doubt"
All coming from white hussys
"awsome" not being used with its right definition.

Long hand shakes. I can just say hi, I don't need to shake your hand then do 5 more steps every time I see you.

I love nervous laughter, it's so funny hearing two people that barely know each other carry on stupid small talk followed by laughing at nothing.

Theres my ******** rant.
:p

[poopyhead]

"cool beans"

after dying out (at least I thought) 10 years ago
my girlfriend of 5 years has decided to start using it again
I think it's a ploy to get rid of me
or
it's a result of her recently moving to 'bama
not quite sure
either way I hate it
I also hate
"sup"
and
"wicked"

[bennetsaysargh]

cool beans
whatever
my biggest one is when people say lol when they are actually speaking or say L O L.
it annoys the hell out of me.

[coopdog]

cool beans
whatever
my biggest one is when people say lol when they are actually speaking or say L O L.
it annoys the hell out of me.

My god. That is the worst. "LOL" hehe. Shut up, just laugh!

[Dr. Zauis]

I think that we need to have an organised MR 2 minutes 'Hate' to combat this blatant thought crime...Stoid, expect a visit soon... :cool:

Just remember that 2+2=5

[Frozone]

"Yous Guys" -- Never actaully heard it in person, but if I ever do then i'll flip. It just drives me insane.


"Pecan" (When Pronounced --Paa~Kahn--) -- There are four different ways to say pecan, but this way just drives me insane. I say it like --Pee~Can--


"Word up" -- I've only ever heard this one online, but it bugs me.

[cb911]

he he. this must be allover the news everywhere.

it's probably even more annoying when people string phrases together.

"At the end of the day, when it comes down to it, the fact of the matter is..." :D

i've never used that, but i'm going to keep it in mind from now on. :D

[poopyhead]

"Yous Guys" -- Never actaully heard it in person, but if I ever do then i'll flip. It just drives me insane.


"Pecan" (When Pronounced --Paa~Kahn--) -- There are four different ways to say pecan, but this way just drives me insane. I say it like --Pee~Can--


"Word up" -- I've only ever heard this one online, but it bugs me.

Being from the south and my grand mother having had a summer cabin with minimal plumbing, the use of this pronunciation causes subtle problems, lest someone confuse the delectable meats with a thunder mug (pee can).

[bennetsaysargh]

2 more...
word up, and my bad.
my god, just talk right!

[Royal Pineapple]

ATM macheine
what the hell do these people think the "M" stands for

[stoid]

I think that we need to have an organised MR 2 minutes 'Hate' to combat this blatant thought crime...Stoid, expect a visit soon... :cool:

ummmm, if you will reread my post you will see that I LOVE BIG BROTHER. I have always loved Big Brother, and will always love him.





Doublethink.

[Rower_CPU]

ATM macheine
what the hell do these people think the "M" stands for

Don't you hate when you go to an ATM machine and forget your PIN number? ;)

[pseudobrit]

Don't you hate when you go to an ATM machine and forget your PIN number? ;)

Did you drive there in a car that has ABS brakes?

[Nermal]

Don't you hate when you go to an ATM machine and forget your PIN number? ;)

You beat me to it! Here in NZ there's a bank called the Auckland Savings Bank, or ASB. And their ads all say "ASB Bank" :rolleyes:

So, you need a PIN number to use the ATM machine at ASB Bank.

[IndyGopher]

2 more...
word up, and my bad.
my god, just talk right!

Er... you meant that to be humorous, right? I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise I would have to believe you thought that "talk right" somehow sounded less stupid than the other phrases you listed.

[blueflame]

do people really say lol when talking? how can that possibly be used offline?
Color me confused!
;-)
Andreas

[slowtreme]

do people really say lol when talking? how can that possibly be used offline?
I was recently at a Gaming center, there were a lot high school kids there. They actually spoke in IRC talk. Instead of saying "shut up" they said "minus vee plus em", I heard "Es Tee Ef You", and of course "Roffle teh mayo", as well as "El oh el". Anything that caused laughter was followed with "My ePenis just grew 2 more inches".

At the end of the day, when it comes down to it, the fact of the matter is, basically my brain was like hella hurting after 30 min yo. :p

Now I know why I got out of that business.

[Doctor Q]

Won't it be fun when computerspeak takes over all of our everyday communication? Windows users will follow the EXIT signs to get out of a building, Mac users will look for QUIT signs, and Unix geeks will look for KILL signs!

colon closeparen

[bennetsaysargh]

Er... you meant that to be humorous, right? I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise I would have to believe you thought that "talk right" somehow sounded less stupid than the other phrases you listed.
stupid me, i meant to say 4 more.
my god is used way too much. i know atheists who say oh my god. :eek:

hey, we got new smileys!
edit-now all the other images are starting to change. nice arn.:):rolleyes: :p ;) :D :o :(

[Nermal]

*waves magic wand and revives thread*

I just found a definition of RAS syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome) :)

[jsw]

*waves magic wand and revives thread*

I just found a definition of RAS syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome) :)

Cool site.

I've seen a lot of "PC computers".

I used to work for a Geographic Information Systems provider. Lots of ads referred to "GIS systems".

[Doctor Q]

I just found a definition of RAS syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome) :)I love that definition.

Today I happened to drive by The La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles. Does a multi-language redundancy count?

[Nermal]

Well, the article I posted refers to 'please répondez s'il vous plaît,' so yes, I'd say that a multi-language redundancy does indeed count :)

[Savage Henry]

"The thing is ...."
"At the end of the day ...."
"You know what I mean?"
Announcing yourself to a group of people with "Hey!"
"Doh!"
"Like...you know..."


I could go on, and probably will now for the rest of the day.... :mad:

[Nermal]

Announcing yourself to a group of people with "Hey!"

It annoys me when people substitute 'hey' for 'hi', at the beginning of a conversation. A further extreme is it being spelt 'hay'.

[heartsparke]

One I'm painfully guilty of, that I use it to start every sentence whenever I'm arguing with someone (i.e. my other half) and am trying to appear diplomatic, is 'having said that'.

E.g. 'Having said that, I understand why you've been acting this way ...'

Another one I'm very guilty of is 'the thing is' or 'here's the thing'.

I don't know where I got them from, but they're in my annoying phrase repertoire and they're not going anywhere.

[Diatribe]

Geeez. You guys are bitching about a lot of stuff. :D
I don't really care, each to their own I guess. The only thing that does annoy me is when people use incorrect language, not because they want to(for whatever reason) but because they don't know it correctly and are then trying to convince you that their way is right. God how I hate this.

[Doctor Q]

I'd love to have George Carlin join this thread. His monologues on the English language always have me in stitches.

[michaelrjohnson]

Don't you hate when you go to an ATM machine and forget your PIN number? ;)
Did you drive there in a car that has ABS brakes?


:mad: :mad: :mad:

Considering all of the ways we Americans have butchered the English language (those across the pond are guilty as well, though), the most irritating thing that I encounter is RAS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome) (I refuse to put in the extra "syndrome"!). I usually physically cringe when I hear people speak it, and I often shake my head when I see them printed on signs, etc.

Slightly off-topic, but another very interesting thing to explore is this site (http://home.t-online.de/home/toni.goeller/idiom_wm/) on English idioms. A very interesting topic, sometimes equally as grating. ;)

[Apple Hobo]

Things that piss me off...

•When someone says "knock on wood" after talking about death or some other bad luck

•Middle-aged yuppies who use Jewish/Hebrew words like "chutzpah" in English sentences. I also hate "mea culpa."

•Yuppies who say "Kudos"

What really gives me a deep psychotic hatred is politically correct phrases. I hate excessively wordy or evasive phrases that are designed to not offend some sensitive moron. Anyone who uses PC-speak needs to be stabbed in the eyes. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[michaelrjohnson]

What really gives me a deep psychotic hatred is politically correct phrases. I hate excessively wordy or evasive phrases that are designed to not offend some sensitive moron. Anyone who uses PC-speak needs to be stabbed in the eyes. :mad: :mad: :mad:

I would agree that hearing people use PC-speak excessively is unbelievably annoying.

[jsw]

I would agree that hearing people use PC-speak excessively is unbelievably annoying.

Absolutely.

I also hate corporate-speak just as much. "Drill down", "refocus our efforts", "employee empowerment", etc.

[Balin64]

One that really makes me want to rage:

"Should I take this ball and run with it" in the business world.

Or

Any mention to that damned book "Who Moved my Cheese."

Off topic, but this gets on my nerves too:

Excessive geek talk, or people who talk about nothing else but one of the following:

Their Mac/PC, Video Games (Arghh), Comic Books, REALITY SHOWS, "Queer Eye...", and my most hated: LoTR and Tolken idolatry (the freakin worst). LoTR talk should be reserved for around 1 am at a party where there are other people there actually interested in the subject too... then we can give them all a swift kick in the ass to the curb and blame it on the beer...

Half the day I work in our small office, and as a veteran employee, I nip these stupid phrases subtly before they catch on. Although we have a marketing woman who is difficult to contain...

The rest of the day I spend in the quiet of the Theatre I manage... no people and very peaceful.

[jimsowden]

My sister always says "Oh my god, like whatever". The thing that annoys me most isn't that she can't stop saying it. Not all at once, perhaps a "like umm" here and a "like Oh MY God" there, but the fact that they have to meaning. It accomplishes nothing to say them. And people who say "I could care less" you have to take it sarcastically for it to make sense.

[Thomas Veil]

"Fair and balanced"
"We report; you decide."

All kinds of improper pronouns:
"Feel free to contact myself...." No, it's "Contact me."
"Him and me are going out." No, "He and I" are going out."

[Nermal]

What really gives me a deep psychotic hatred is politically correct phrases. I hate excessively wordy or evasive phrases that are designed to not offend some sensitive moron. Anyone who uses PC-speak needs to be stabbed in the eyes. :mad: :mad: :mad:

We end up with words like 'chairperson' instead of 'chairman'. Some people don't seem to realise that it's 'man' as in 'human', not 'male'.

[edesignuk]

"can someone action this?"
"who will take ownership of this issue?"
...blah, blah...

drives me up the ********* wall at work!

[ryan42]

"I could care less" means the exact opposite of what people intend it to mean.

I need twenty dollars.
I couldn't care less.
--
I can't believe you're only giving me 10 dollars.
I could care less.

Just use the right version.

Oh, and like, this like, "like" thing is like so uncool.

[zoetropeuk]

Here's my list:

1. My bad (Too many people on MacRumors used it)
2. Worlds best practice (who comes up with this ?)
3. LOL
4. SUP
5. Any phrase that comes from the mouth of any one working in middle management. Just hire competent people to do the work in the first place and they shouldn't need managing.

[Awimoway]

"I could care less" means the exact opposite of what people intend it to mean.

I see this criticism a lot, and I just don't agree. The phrase is always uttered in a dry, sarcastic tone, and when speaking sarcastically, we say the opposite of what we mean. So it makes perfect sense to sarcastically say "I could care less," intending that we actually could not care less. Either way, we always know what they meant to say even if we'd prefer to be wiseasses who say things like "so you must really care a lot about it, then, huh?" which implies that both we and they knew full well what the intended meaning was, but we'd rather ridicule a deficiency of mathematical logic in their language. After all, (digression: I bet somebody hates "after all") isn't correctly understanding the intent of the utterance what really matters?

The rules of English grammar are, many of them, based on false assumptions caused by fussy over-analyzation of the logical inconsistencies of the language. But this ain't no Latin we speak, and we should all just chill. ;)

[Colonel Panik]

Common phrases can be really annoying, but what gets on my tits is the than/then confusion that seems to beset so many juvenile minds.

"I'm better then you"

"It's better to use a Mac then a PC"

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHH!

[zv470]

I get really annoyed when people say "good" when they're meant to say "well" eg: "You did good"... yuck. But I'm guilty too... with "How's things?" instead of "How're things?". :o I suppose when you're exposed to poor grammar all the time, it's hard to speak good. :o

[zv470]

I also hate when people are explaining something and say "You see?" at the end of every sentence, grrr. :D

[Nermal]

"It's better to use a Mac then a PC"

I actually agree with this one. It is better to use a Mac then a PC, because you realise how bad the PC is, and go back to the Mac :p

Yeah I know that's not what you meant.

[Kingsnapped]

::Brings sandwich to mouth::
"Hey, are the sandwiches any good?"
::Bites sandwich::

Please don't ask how food tastes as you are about to eat it.

[stevehaslip]

several of my friends who used to live in london, you know? always say do you know what i mean? at the end of every sentence, d'you know what i mean? its actually really annoying, do you know what i mean?!

also i know this girl who got in trouble at school with all our english teachers for raising the pitch of her voice as she spoke a sentence. so everything she said sounded like a question. i didnt really notice it to much but when they did impressions of her to demonstrate, it was very funny. (they exagerated it to the extreme and pointed out how austrailian she sounded!) :eek:

[Apple Hobo]

Yeah, so like I went to the ATM machine to get some cash to go buy some CD discs and DVD discs at the Best Buy. As I was about to pay for my goods, the cashier's computer crashed. It figures since it was based on NT Technology. What an unexpected surprise! Maybe I should've done some advanced planning to avoid this situation. But I'm ok with the computer problems because that's all past history, and besides, I prefer to use MAC computers. Enough bitching about redundant phrases; I'm off for some tuna fish with tomato ketchup. :p ;)


BTW, how do I find my MAC's MAC? Or is it my Mac's MAC? Can a Mac have a MAC? I've heard Mac's don't work on the internet.

[themadchemist]

To all the students out there:

"You have xx minutes to complete this section, you may begin now."

Don't you hate it when you hear that?

[Loge]

Nouns used as verbs,

"I'll just pdf that document"

or adjectives used as nouns

"The large corporates reacted to the news ..."

[Kingsnapped]

Another one came to me. It's not a Game Boy Advanced, it's a Game Boy Advance. I'm very surprised when I see advertisements and peripherals for it calling it Advanced.

On another Nintendo note, Mario doesn't spit fireballs, they come out his hands.

[Nermal]

Yeah, so like I went to the ATM machine to get some cash to go buy some CD discs and DVD discs at the Best Buy. As I was about to pay for my goods, the cashier's computer crashed. It figures since it was based on NT Technology. What an unexpected surprise! Maybe I should've done some advanced planning to avoid this situation. But I'm ok with the computer problems because that's all past history, and besides, I prefer to use MAC computers. Enough bitching about redundant phrases; I'm off for some tuna fish with tomato ketchup. :p ;)


BTW, how do I find my MAC's MAC? Or is it my Mac's MAC? Can a Mac have a MAC? I've heard Mac's don't work on the internet.

My head's about to explode! :eek:

[themadchemist]

Nouns used as verbs,

"I'll just pdf that document"


Case in point: "Well I googled it..." Also, my girlfriend talks about "hearting" things. I explained to her how such use of language was a travesty.

[Vector]

A common phrase that annoys me is "vis-a-vis ..." when one could have just said "in the comedy series The Office". Then again maybe it just annoys me when "journalists" get bored with writing articles they know are a waste of their talents so they throw in some extra words or phrases in an attempt to convince themselves that it is a decent piece of writing. :rolleyes:

[themadchemist]

A common phrase that annoys me is "vis-a-vis ..." when one could have just said "in the comedy series The Office". Then again maybe it just annoys me when "journalists" get bored with writing articles they know are a waste of their talents so they throw in some extra words or phrases in an attempt to convince themselves that it is a decent piece of writing. :rolleyes:

While this may be true in some instances, I say that there's a whole wide world of vocabulary out there and people should excercise their right to use it (if they do so properly and accurately).

[Vector]

While this may be true in some instances, I say that there's a whole wide world of vocabulary out there and people should excercise their right to use it (if they do so properly and accurately).

I have a wide vocabulary and don't mind using it if the situation warrants, but in an article like this using vis-a-vis wasn't warranted. I don't really have a problem with it being used by this writer, i was just using it to point out the fact that many journalists use vocabulary just for the sake of using it rather than because it was needed or improved the meaning, clarity, or rhetorical value of a piece.

[kaylie_kipe]

When I was little I used to say okie-dokie all the time instead of okay. Then one day a friend of mine told me that she hated it when people said that...so I quit doing it.

[fuzzwud]

"and then some" ... just say, much more or a lot!!

[justinshiding]

Hmmm not sure if anyone mentioned this one already....but ...I answer calls all day long (inbound call center) and in the south (sorry if im generalizing her) when someone doesn't hear what I said...they'll say "dooo whuut now?" It makes me want to jump through the phone and ...something something.

[King Cobra]

All right, I'm going to participate, but in order of less annoying to the most annoying phrase ever.

[1] Split infinitives, like "to finally see." It's a little annoying.

[2] Excessive usage of "really." Once is enough.

[3] "There is... [plural]." Seriously, learn your forms of "to be." There are.

[4] Mixing up the "I wonder...?" and the "I wonder." All right, paul w., if you're reading this, yes, I know that languages change over time, I haven't forgotten that. But wondering will always be a declaration of a state of mind, and all declarations in the English language end with a period, not a question mark. So it's "I wonder..." with a period.

The mix up happens to be one thing that stands out as real annoying, since people use the "I wonder..." expecting a response. If you don't get one, well... T.S.

Surprisingly, there is one phrase that is even more annoying than the "I wonder...?" phrase:


[5] "Go with the flow"

That is by far the most useless, unintelligent, ordinary, bulls*** phrase ever. Why the hell should I [have to] go with the flow? I refuse! That phrase sounds like you want someone to do nothing at all about a situation, or even do what everyone else does, even though there are other things that can be done about it. It's even worse when used in conversation as "Just go with the flow." Man, I get so seriously pissed off to the point where I want to scream out: "No! Go against the flow!"

[themadchemist]

[3] "There is... [plural]." Seriously, learn your forms of "to be." There are.


I agree! However, do you?

Case in point:


All right, paul w., if you're reading this, yes, I know linguistics change over time, I haven't forgotten that.

Linguistics is a plural noun, but with singular construction. (Merriam-Webster Online Entry: Linguistics (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=linguistics&x=14&y=14)) Therefore, you should have stated "linguistics changes," as opposed to "linguistics change."

Moreover, "linguistics" does not fit the context of your statement. Linguistics is "the study of human speech including the units, nature, structure, and modification of language." (Merriam-Webster Online Entry: Linguistics (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=linguistics&x=14&y=14)) The study of language modifications does not change as the language becomes modified. Linguistics is a set of formal methods and techniques by which to observe, among other things, the modification of language over time and space. Therefore, it follows that the act of studying should not of itself, out of necessity, modify the means of studying. Hence, your statement would have been better served by the use of the word "language" than by the use of the word "linguistics."

Saying that "languages change" would have averted both the syntactical and usage errors. ;) :D

[King Cobra]

Right, so I've been 0wn3d for a change. Constantly flaming people isn't as fun as getting owned like that. (Errr, maybe I should refrain from using "0wn3d" in this thread.)

Fine. "Languages change."

Now I'm gonna edit my post. (guilty face)

[Neserk]

ATM macheine
what the hell do these people think the "M" stands for

It stands for:
Asynchronist Transfer Mode :p So the M is for Mode!

ISBN number. The "n" is number, hence redundant.

[Neserk]

stupid me, i meant to say 4 more.
my god is used way too much. i know atheists who say oh my god. :eek:

hey, we got new smileys!
edit-now all the other images are starting to change. nice arn.:):rolleyes: :p ;) :D :o :(

Made me think of Jewish people who say :Jesus Christ!

[Neserk]

What annoys me is when people say something is PC when it has nothing to do with PC. Everything a given person does not agree with has suddenly become PC.

What also annoys me is when people are ignorant to their own blatant PC. Ever cultural group has PC in order to belong to that cultural group.

[Neserk]

"Fair and balanced"
"We report; you decide."

All kinds of improper pronouns:
"Feel free to contact myself...." No, it's "Contact me."
"Him and me are going out." No, "He and I" are going out."

In defense of improper use of pronouns, they are damn confusing sometimes. Not your examples but often "John and I" is awkward and doesn't sound correct even when it is.

I also love when people use "John and I" when it should be "John and me." That cracks me up.

[Neserk]

We end up with words like 'chairperson' instead of 'chairman'. Some people don't seem to realise that it's 'man' as in 'human', not 'male'.


Males who don't understand that man means male, not human. Using man for all people is archaic and outdated. I am NOT a man. I am a person, a human, a woman. How would you like if we switched all the pronouns the her, she, woman? I'm guessing you wouldn't. If you are okay with it, than please start to do so in your writing and speech. I'm guessing then you'll understand that it is exclusive ;)

[Neserk]

Nouns used as verbs,



Aren't those called gerunds? I know there is a name for them. It is part of how language develops and evolves ;)

[Apple Hobo]

Males who don't understand that man means male, not human. Using man for all people is archaic and outdated.

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English man, mon human being, male human; akin to Old High German man human being, Sanskrit manu

1 a (1) : an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2) : a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilman> (3) : HUSBAND (4) : LOVER b : the human race : MANKIND c : a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)...

Yes, it means male, but there's more to the story.

[King Cobra]

I also love when people use "John and I" when it should be "John and me."
I think you have that backwards... (confirms with p182 of Diana Hacker (www.dianahacker.com)'s 5th edition of A Writer's Reference) ...yeah, it should be "John and I."

[Vector]

Aren't those called gerunds? I know there is a name for them. It is part of how language develops and evolves ;)

A gerund is a verbal noun, a verb used as a noun. Most gerunds in english are formed by adding -ing to the verb, e.g. "I find this phrase annoying." "Annoying", being formed from the verb "to annoy", is a gerund.

Anthimeria can also be used to desribe either a noun being used as a verb or a verb being used as a noun, but this is a rhetorical classification not a grammatical one.

[Doctor Q]

Right, so I've been 0wn3d for a change. Constantly flaming people isn't as fun as getting owned like that. (Errr, maybe I should refrain from using "0wn3d" in this thread.)Great response, KC. Made me smile.

Go right ahead and use "0wn3d". If we had dictionary entries for owned and 0wn3d as we use them here, they would not be the same as the conventional word owned, and I can't think of a dictionary word that would serve the same purpose. Until all the dictionaries add "0wn3d", the phrase "one-upped" is the closest equivalent I can think of. Are there better choices we could use without getting marked down by our English teachers?

I wonder if I'll be able to remember the rule about using a period after an "I wonder" sentence? I mean .

[jimsowden]

I think you have that backwards... (confirms with p182 of Diana Hacker (www.dianahacker.com)'s 5th edition of A Writer's Reference) ...yeah, it should be "John and I."
It depends on where it is in the sentence. "John and I took a walk down by the lake" correct. "She gave a present to both john and I" Wrong. It should be "John and me". Stupid english.

[themadchemist]

I think you have that backwards... (confirms with p182 of Diana Hacker (www.dianahacker.com)'s 5th edition of A Writer's Reference) ...yeah, it should be "John and I."

I think that Neserk was referring to some other instances, like "In between John and me," in which some people opt for the incorrect, "In between John and I," but I could have misinterpreted the situation. You're definitely correct, though, that the instance of "John and I are going out" is the right form.

Anyway, as far as the pickiness re. linguistics, I'm just trying to keep up with the tradition of this thread: "stick up your ass-edness." :D

[Neserk]

I think you have that backwards... (confirms with p182 of Diana Hacker (www.dianahacker.com)'s 5th edition of A Writer's Reference) ...yeah, it should be "John and I."

Only if it is the subject of the sentence. If it is the object is should be John and me ;)

[Neserk]

Etymology: Middle English, from Old English man, mon human being, male human; akin to Old High German man human being, Sanskrit manu

1 a (1) : an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2) : a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilman> (3) : HUSBAND (4) : LOVER b : the human race : MANKIND c : a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens)...

Yes, it means male, but there's more to the story.


I'm familiar with the etymology. But in modern usage man means male, period. I don't recall the whole story but at the time man was orignally used to mean males and females a different word was used for refering to the adult male of the species. Eventually it dropped out of usage and thanks to a sexist culture "they" decided man was sufficient for refering to both genders while actually excluding females. Note in the constitution all men are created equal. But women had to be given the right to vote with an ammendment ;)

[Neserk]

A gerund is a verbal noun, a verb used as a noun. Most gerunds in english are formed by adding -ing to the verb, e.g. "I find this phrase annoying." "Annoying", being formed from the verb "to annoy", is a gerund.

Anthimeria can also be used to desribe either a noun being used as a verb or a verb being used as a noun, but this is a rhetorical classification not a grammatical one.


Thank you! I know when I've looked up words where I was confused by their usage that there was often a verb form of the word and a noun form of the exact same word.

[themadchemist]

I'm familiar with the etymology. But in modern usage man means male, period. I don't recall the whole story but at the time man was orignally used to mean males and females a different word was used for refering to the adult male of the species. Eventually it dropped out of usage and thanks to a sexist culture "they" decided man was sufficient for refering to both genders while actually excluding females. Note in the constitution all men are created equal. But women had to be given the right to vote with an ammendment ;)

I think, though, that this form of "sexism" lacks intention and consequence. Just because people use the neutered 'he,' that doesn't mean that they perceive women as subordinate. Such a perception reflects a mentality in which pronouns are not causative.

Anyway, 'he/she' is cumbersome and 'they' is excrutiating, and thus I often use 'he' to refer to men and women simply because I have no better alternative. That doesn't mean I'm not glad women have the right to vote and that I don't feel women should get equal wages or be treated with equal respect and dignity.

I think there are much greater injustices in the world, certainly many of these afflict women. The syntactical tragedy here is perhaps the least wicked, both in the motive of use and the effect of that use.

I would happily change to a different neutered form, though, if an acceptable alternative presented itself. 'She' does the trick, but what's the difference between referring to things with a neutered masculine and referring to things with a neutered feminine?

[Doctor Q]

"E" or "e" has been suggested as a word to use to mean "he or she" (second person pronoun), leaving "he" for the male case only. It corresponds nicely to "I" (first person pronoun, also one letter) and even rhymes with "he" and "she". But E just never caught on, I guess because people resist change and old habits die hard. So the word "he" still means either male or [male or female], ambiguously. If we ever get over our old habits about he and she, I hope we Americans can also get up the nerve to switch to the metric system too!

[Sol]

Here are two phrases smart people should never use:

"One hundred and ten percent!"
Look, I know that whoever you are talking about tried very hard but there is no point in using percentages if you are going to go over one hundred. The truth is, this person you are talking about gave it 'only' eighty to ninety percent. Anything more would propably be fatal.

"I am not saying that... but..."
I've got news for you! You are saying exactly that and there are no buts. Next time you talk to me try to be a bit more honest.

[Doctor Q]

"I'm no racist, but..."

Have you ever heard that one without hearing a racist comment following?

[Sol]

"I'm no racist, but..."

Have you ever heard that one without hearing a racist comment following?

That is exactly what I am talking about in the post above yours.

My answer to your question is never. I have never met a racist who had the courage to admit what he was. "I am not a racists, but..." is another way of saying "Do not accuse me of being racist for what I am about to say."

[Nermal]

I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but here in NZ we have a racist Government which claims that it isn't racist :eek:

[iNetwork]

Some things that annoy me are "my bad" instead of "my mistake", I've only ever heard Americans say that. Another one that annoys me is "near miss", which implies "nearly missed", even though it's used as "nearly hit".
Yes, "near hit" and "near miss" those two drive me NUTS. When two objects collied they nearly missed...BUT NOT QUITE! The other annoying phrases are anything that DUFF MAN types. JESUS H Christ <--another annoying one> any thread that guy posts in I avoid reading. Anyone else here think DUFF MAN is annoying with his constant repetition of "oh yeah" and "duff man says"
If I ever met Duff Man, I might be tempted to take my foot to his balls. :mad:

[Sol]

The other annoying phrases are anything that DUFF MAN types. JESUS H Christ <--another annoying one> any thread that guy posts in I avoid reading. Anyone else here think DUFF MAN is annoying with his constant repetition of "oh yeah" and "duff man says"
If I ever met Duff Man, I might be tempted to take my foot to his balls. :mad:

I for one enjoy Duff Man's contribution to the MacRumours Forums. Maybe it is because I am a fan of The Simpsons and this Duff Man respects the source material. None of his posts have been out of character and for that he gets my vote of support.

Oh yeah!

[MarkCollette]

Males who don't understand that man means male, not human. Using man for all people is archaic and outdated. I am NOT a man. I am a person, a human, a woman. How would you like if we switched all the pronouns the her, she, woman? I'm guessing you wouldn't. If you are okay with it, than please start to do so in your writing and speech. I'm guessing then you'll understand that it is exclusive ;)

Sorry, you're simply wrong. It's only now archaic because a whole bunch of people have entered into some delusion, and have constructed a new sexist meaning for it, so they could reject that construction, and thus move on to some new words. It's almost a straw-man argument against the word.

And secondly, the vast majority of writers have switched to using her, she, woman, and thus have unarguably fomented an exclusive and sexist pattern of speach. Before it might have been debatable, but now it's simply straight on sexist, since all new books only refer to a person as a woman.

Here's my simple solution. I don't care how grammatically correct this is, so don't even bother correcting me.

He -> They
His -> Their
Him -> Them
Man -> Person

And when needing to use people's names, simply make 50% male and 50% female.

I have no idea why this isn't done. Seems like an obvious solution to me...

[themadchemist]

And when needing to use people's names, simply make 50% male and 50% female.


Well, since you can only use one gender per situation (for clarity), it will not be clear in any situation that you also use the other gender. Therefore, you will appear to be a sexist nonetheless. In addition, if the neutered 'he' is inherently sexist, using it at anytime is sexist. :rolleyes:

I'm dialectically opposed to using 'they' instead, which is why I think we have one of two options:

1) Adopt 'it' as a gender-neutered pronoun that can apply to people
2) Create a new pronoun that applies to both genders.

[Colonel Panik]

Won't it be fun when computerspeak takes over all of our everyday communication? Windows users will follow the EXIT signs to get out of a building, Mac users will look for QUIT signs, and Unix geeks will look for KILL signs!

colon closeparen

I once heard a comedian say, "Exit signs. They're on the way out."

Loved it.

[MarkCollette]

Well, since you can only use one gender per situation (for clarity), it will not be clear in any situation that you also use the other gender. Therefore, you will appear to be a sexist nonetheless. In addition, if the neutered 'he' is inherently sexist, using it at anytime is sexist. :rolleyes:


No, I think my 50/50 rule stands up just fine here. In that single personal reference, use whichever single gender you arbitrarily choose. Then, the next time there is a single personal reference, choose the other gender. Every single written work need not have a perfect balance, but what's important is that in general, one would perceive an overall balance.

As well, the neutered 'he' is not sexist. Only some crybabies, who want to perceive themselves as victims, have decided that it is sexist. And even by their argument, a single 'he' reference is not sexist, it's two things:

1. All human references are 'he', creating some perception that men are the only true people, and women are some sort of tacked on hanger-ons, with names like 's' + 'he', which are only derived from this true-person 'he'.

Personally, I think that if these people studied other languages, and saw the extreme complexity of sanskrit, and the somewhat complexity of german, and the little complexity of french, and oh let's not forget latin, in dealing with the issue of gender, then they'd understand that English is merely a simplification. When one simplifies, one loses precision, nuances, subtleties, etc. It's not to hurt anyone, in fact it's to help people, because the goal is to bring the language within the reaches of the common man. (does that even count as a pun?) So, I simply say, get educated, learn to not be an ignorant victim wannabe, and move on, to those people. But, guess what, I'm not a total prick, so I compromise none the less, and try to use 'they', 'one'. All I ask is that some committee of male hating femminists does not somehow impose some rule of redardia upon all the English world, that we must use 'she' or 'he/she' as the new gender neutral designation.

2. Back from when I was young, to when some fat old men first foisted the patriarchy onto our shoulders, all examples in books have almost exclusively been made with male characters, completely excluding females. This creates a perception that females do not fulfill the roles, as they are not true member of society, but merely chattel of reproduction, while males are the true agents of society.

I agree, this is wrong, so please try the 50/50 rule. Who knows, maybe some little girl will be reading some story, and see that a female character has a certain job, and then will envision herself in that place, and work towards that goal, achieve it, and live a happy happy life.

On the flip side of that scenario, if all characters are female, as is currently popular with the (un)intelligentsia, then what of all the little boys whose formative years are spent, with the perception building, that only females continue on to productive roles in society, while males just what? Die off, go to prison? If that sounds silly or stupid to you, then why would the other example have credence?



I'm dialectically opposed to using 'they' instead, which is why I think we have one of two options:

1) Adopt 'it' as a gender-neutered pronoun that can apply to people
2) Create a new pronoun that applies to both genders.

Right, I'm glad that you're thinking out of the box to come up with a solution. Unfortunately, you're falling into the trap that others are in thinking that for it to be proper English, we must all decide to do the same thing. All we have to do is adopt our own personal choice, which we feel is sufficiently clear to whomever we communicate with, and then allow market forces to decide the winner(s) in the next 50 - 100 years.

Notice how I used the word "one" to denote any individual, in the section above which has no gender? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

[billtanderson]

Edutainment - no education definitely no entertainment
Infomercial - no info but definitley a commercial
datasphere - data yes, but where is the sphere

how are you - when used instead of hello, with no intention of listening to a response
have a nice day - when it's insincere

[FriarCrazy]

"Slow Down"
This phrase is only annoying a specific time, and that is when I'm driving home from work through a neighborhood and some insecure psycho out for a walk decides to yell at me for driving the speed limit. I guess some people just don't comprehend the urge to get home after battling rush hour traffic. Perhaps that’s what you get when you live in a community full of stay-at-home "soccer moms" that spend all day at the club house and wouldn't recognize a little thing we like to call "reality" if it hit them in the face.

[MarkCollette]

how are you - when used instead of hello, with no intention of listening to a response


Argh! My local grocery store makes their tellers use a scripted dialog, which includes this question. How freakin insulting to have someone ask you a "friendly" question that they don't care about at all.

[Doctor Q]

Here's one that bugs me, whether I'm "officially" right or wrong:

I dislike the phrase "data are" in a computer context. To me, "data" is singular. I think it is generally accepted that way and that derivations don't matter when common usage clearly says otherwise. I think "datum" is archaic and I no longer care what the dictionary says about it.

I choose to use singular in all cases and I think everybody else should follow my usage because my opinion is the only one that matters. :)

[Apple Hobo]

Here's one that bugs me, whether I'm "officially" right or wrong:

I dislike the phrase "data are" in a computer context. To me, "data" is singular.

I feel the same when someone writes "Apple are..." instead of "Apple is...".

1) Apple are going to release a new G5 computer.

2) Apple is going to release a new G5 computer.

#1 just sounds goofy. I think of Apple as a single company.

[Sneeper]

I feel the same when someone writes "Apple are..." instead of "Apple is...".

1) Apple are going to release a new G5 computer.

2) Apple is going to release a new G5 computer.

#1 just sounds goofy. I think of Apple as a single company.

YES! This annoys the heck out of me! Why do people write "Microsoft are going to release Office 2004" and "Apple are going to release 2.5GHZ G5s". These are single companies! Drives me bonkers.

But since I'm here.. When people write "for all intensive purposes" instead of "for all intents and purposes"... Or when they write "should of" instead of "should've". They are common mistakes because people mishear things.. but still minor annoyances.

[Applespider]

When writing about Apple or MS, it's the company that we're talking about. And since it's only one company, doesn't it have to be 'Apple is'?

My contribution here is one that my boss says at least once a day with no real intention of listening to the answer

"Are you winning?"

Edit: to remove another potentially irritating phrase!

[Sneeper]

When writing about Apple or MS, it's the company that we're talking about. And since it's only one company, doesn't it have to be 'Apple is'?

My contribution here is one that my boss says at least once a day with no real intention of listening to the answer

"Are you winning?"

Edit: to remove another potentially irritating phrase!

Winning what? Does he ask that when you are playing a video game?

[Roger1]

Absolutely! People absolutely overuse this word. I am going to go absolutely nuts if it doesn't stop getting overused.

[zv470]

How was this for annoying:

"anyone know where i can download halo for mac??"

[zv470]

Absolutely! People absolutely overuse this word. I am going to go absolutely nuts if it doesn't stop getting overused.

Absolutely

[Roger1]

as long as you realize absolut is a different story :)

[Neserk]

Sorry, you're simply wrong.


No, actually I'm not wrong :rolleyes: Language evolves.


And secondly, the vast majority of writers have switched to using her, she, woman, and thus have unarguably fomented an exclusive and sexist pattern of speach. Before it might have been debatable, but now it's simply straight on sexist, since all new books only refer to a person as a woman.


I don't know what you are reading but what I am reading (and I'm well read) is using s/he or him/her or some variation of that. When refering to humanity use "people" or "humans" or "humanity." Most writers have dropped sexist language unless they are on the far right, most, not all.


And when needing to use people's names, simply make 50% male and 50% female.


Except that 51% of the population is female ;) It is fine the way it is. When the gender is unknown simply do a s/he or him/her etc. It is a few more letters and reads well.



I have no idea why this isn't done. Seems like an obvious solution to me...


Because it isn't a solution ;) It creates more problems...

[Neserk]

2) Create a new pronoun that applies to both genders.

Good idea.

[Roger1]

s(he) I've seen this used in place of he or she.

[Doctor Q]

I think you mean (s)he, Roger1.

[Apple Hobo]

No, we don't need a new gender-neutral pronoun. English is already becoming more and more bloated with soft, wimpy, politically correct BS.

[Sneeper]

No, we don't need a new gender-neutral pronoun. English is already becoming more and more bloated with soft, wimpy, politically correct BS.

I think the "politically correctness" is in general a good thing. We are becoming more aware of people not like us, and our language is reflecting that. Language does effect the way one thinks.

I think a gender-neutral pronoun isn't a bad idea. Saying (S)he is very awkward. Using the plurrel is also awkward.

How about Ze?

[Neserk]

I think the "politically correctness" is in general a good thing. We are becoming more aware of people not like us, and our language is reflecting that. Language does effect the way one thinks.


I agree. People throw around the term "politically correct" when ever it is an idea of something they don't like... often out of disregard to how their behavior affects others.... and language definately controls how we think.



I think a gender-neutral pronoun isn't a bad idea. Saying (S)he is very awkward. Using the plurrel is also awkward.

How about Ze?


sounds too much like he :p

[fuzzwud]

i dislike someone saying "he or she" to be politically correct. I think we're fooling ourselves as a society. Without change in individual or society attitudes, merely changing the semantics of the language is superficial. Once such attitudes change, it won't be necessary to use "he or she" or "s(he)" ... the meaning would be understood already.

[Neserk]

i dislike someone saying "he or she" to be politically correct. I think we're fooling ourselves as a society. Without change in individual or society attitudes, merely changing the semantics of the language is superficial. Once such attitudes change, it won't be necessary to use "he or she" or "s(he)" ... the meaning would be understood already.


FRom what I studied ins Social PSychology the opposite is true. You change the way people talk, you change the way they think.

That is how Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works. You take a person who is depressed (which comes with many negative thoughts) and start teaching them how to think in a different way and the depression will become less intense. It isn't about the "power of positive thinking" it is realistic thinking that invovles the realization that there are many ways to see a situation and trying to balance the negative thought process. It is more complicated than that but I don't know how else to explain it.

[whooleytoo]

I agree. People throw around the term "politically correct" when ever it is an idea of something they don't like... often out of disregard to how their behavior affects others.... and language definately controls how we think.

The problem with political correctness - at least as I see it - is the level of social engineering it implies. "If everyone spoke/thought as I think they should, the world would be a better place". And that's a rather dangerous conceit.

There is no substitute for sensitivity and common sense, creating rules and new taboos (or even new lingo, in this case) may just risk antagonising more people than it soothes.

[whooleytoo]

The problem with political correctness - at least as I see it - is the level of social engineering it implies. "If everyone spoke/thought as I think they should, the world would be a better place". And that's a rather dangerous conceit.

Actually, just reading my above post, I've found another thing I dislike - pseudo-quotes like the one above. Like many people, I'm too lazy to try to express my point, so I invent a fictitious quote to save me the effort. It's not as if my gray matter has anything better to be doing..
;)

[sonyrules]

A little off the subject, but when you call your ISP for tech support cause you can get online, and they tell you "for your convience, you can visit our support system online at....... " HOW AM I GOING TO ACCESS IT IF I AM NOT ONLINE? and they know it to.. How bad is that.....

[Neserk]

The problem with political correctness - at least as I see it - is the level of social engineering it implies. "If everyone spoke/thought as I think they should, the world would be a better place". And that's a rather dangerous conceit.



True PC is aimed at groups of people who are discriminated against: women, language and ethnic minorities, gay and bisexual people, disabled people... someone somewhere has realized that discrimination is a *bad* thing and psychology tells us that the best way to begin correcting this is through language changes.

[Neserk]

A little off the subject, but when you call your ISP for tech support cause you can get online, and they tell you "for your convience, you can visit our support system online at....... " HOW AM I GOING TO ACCESS IT IF I AM NOT ONLINE? and they know it to.. How bad is that.....


Been there, done that. arghhhhh

[whooleytoo]

True PC is aimed at groups of people who are discriminated against: women, language and ethnic minorities, gay and bisexual people, disabled people... someone somewhere has realized that discrimination is a *bad* thing and psychology tells us that the best way to begin correcting this is through language changes.

However, there is no absolute, psychological standard by which to gauge the best way forward. While you say 'psychology tells us', it would be more insightful to say 'many/most psychologists agree'; it's hardly the most exact of sciences.

But perhaps I'm being overly pedantic ;) In any case, pro vs anti PC arguments can be a little pointless, because as it's such a vague term, each side may well be talking about entirely different things.

On the other hand, the line between acceptable and unacceptable discrimination is a fine one. And there is such a thing as acceptable discrimination - we "may" discriminate based on gender when it comes to selecting a spouse, or housemate, but not when selecting an employee (sometimes..). Affirmative action/quotas discriminate on the basis of race, but as it's well intentioned, it's considered acceptable. Doesn't a 'father and son' sports day discriminate based on sex (and, to a degree, sexuality)?

And, I suppose, that would be my greatest annoyance with PC (as I interpret it): statements like 'discrimination is bad' aren't quite that simple or absolute. (No offence intended, I don't mean to focus on you!)

[Doctor Q]

A little off the subject, but when you call your ISP for tech support cause you can get online, and they tell you "for your convience, you can visit our support system online at....... " HOW AM I GOING TO ACCESS IT IF I AM NOT ONLINE? and they know it to.. How bad is that.....I had a similar experience with the phone company last month. My phones were out of order late one night, and then they came back to life sometime the next day. I called and asked a customer service representative if I would get a credit on my bill for the day my phones didn't work. He said no, because I hadn't called their office to report the problem while the phones were out, only after they came back to life. I asked if that meant I was supposed to use phones that didn't work to call them, and he said of course not, that I could simply walk to a gas station and use a pay phone. Why do I get the feeling that very few customers get refunds for the time their phones are out?

[Sneeper]

On the other hand, the line between acceptable and unacceptable discrimination is a fine one. And there is such a thing as acceptable discrimination - we "may" discriminate based on gender when it comes to selecting a spouse, or housemate, but not when selecting an employee (sometimes..). Affirmative action/quotas discriminate on the basis of race, but as it's well intentioned, it's considered acceptable. Doesn't a 'father and son' sports day discriminate based on sex (and, to a degree, sexuality)?


PCness is about awareness, not about locking people into thought process. Often people speak not realizing they are hurting others by their very word choice. Being PC is being aware that the is a larger world than one's narrow experience.

I'll give you an example.. It's very popular for teenagers now to use the term 'gay' to mean something is bad. "Oh man, your car was stolen? That's so gay." They of course don't mean it in the homosexual sense. They mean it in the *bad* sense. But their word choice unconsciously associates gay things with bad things. And I can tell you, from personal experience, that when a gay teen hears someone use that phrase, it hurts. It makes ya wanna curl up and go away.

Okay that was more soul-bearing than I originally set out for. Yikes.

[whooleytoo]

PCness is about awareness, not about locking people into thought process. Often people speak not realizing they are hurting others by their very word choice. Being PC is being aware that the is a larger world than one's narrow experience.


PCness - as you've described it above - is perfectly fine and good. Personally, I'd just call that being open-minded and sensitive. PCness - as I would define it - is something different: it's trying to legislate away all causes of offence in human behaviour, to create taboos rather than inquisitive, reasoned thought.


I'll give you an example.. It's very popular for teenagers now to use the term 'gay' to mean something is bad. "Oh man, your car was stolen? That's so gay." They of course don't mean it in the homosexual sense. They mean it in the *bad* sense. But their word choice unconsciously associates gay things with bad things. And I can tell you, from personal experience, that when a gay teen hears someone use that phrase, it hurts. It makes ya wanna curl up and go away.


Funnily enough, I was wondering about that too, where did this specific usage of 'gay' come from? I'm assuming it was originally homophobic?

I do think there is a certain irony there though, given that the original, "pre homosexual" usage of the word became almost unusable after it acquired the homosexual connotations, and now it's happening again.

In that situation, the one thing I would do is draw a comparison with the Irish (bear with me here!). The Irish had a long term stigma attached of being lazy, stupid, violent alcoholics; and the nicknames of "Mick" or "Paddy" were liberally applied to any Irish person - with all the negative connotations. Even as recently as 20 years ago, they might have caused great offence, but not today.

As Ireland is becoming a much richer, more confident nation, so are the Irish. And these days many would even use the term "Micks" to describe themselves, jokingly. And you probably will hear the phrase "that's a bit Irish" more on Irish TV than any other. The words haven't changed, nor have the intentions of the (non Irish) people who use them, but the reaction of the Irish to those words has changed; and in doing so is, partly, changing people's attitudes towards us.


Okay that was more soul-bearing than I originally set out for. Yikes.

Actually, I really enjoy discussions like these - as you can see from my rant above!!! ;)

[windowsblowsass]

"well thats your opinion"

no **** its my opinion i just said that did you really expect me to not know it was my opinion. :mad:

here as a funny list http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=boiling_blood

[wdlove]

The use of all these politcally corect words has become very annoying. We have a dictionary for a reason. The worst is that "gay" means happy.

[Neserk]

However, there is no absolute, psychological standard by which to gauge the best way forward.


Actually there is. You look for mentally healthy people. People who are discriminated against as a whole are going to have more problems with things like depression. When changing the language reduces that it is a good thing!


On the other hand, the line between acceptable and unacceptable discrimination is a fine one. And there is such a thing as acceptable discrimination - we "may" discriminate based on gender when it comes to selecting a spouse, or housemate, but not when selecting an employee (sometimes..).


Not sure what that has to do with language and the words we use... :confused: But yes, we do make spouse choices based on our sexual orientation, etc.


Doesn't a 'father and son' sports day discriminate based on sex (and, to a degree, sexuality)?



There is a problem. Not all sons have fathers and not all fathers have sons. Wouldn't be better to have a parent/child day? Not all boys like sports and there are certainly women who like sports and girls! :eek:

[fuzzwud]

True PC is aimed at groups of people who are discriminated against: women, language and ethnic minorities, gay and bisexual people, disabled people... someone somewhere has realized that discrimination is a *bad* thing and psychology tells us that the best way to begin correcting this is through language changes.

PC can actually become counter-helpful when carried away beyond its intent. When political correctness is applied in every and all instances, then it becomes a legalistic doctrine. I believe the intent of political correctness is noble, and we should be sensitive to others around us. But the knee-jerk reaction our society takes when politically un-correct sayings are said is un-intellectual. Political correctness discourages open dialog and civilized discussions of issues; as result, it stunts our societies' growth and progress for deeper understanding of each other.

Sure, everyone including me has certain prejudices whether one realizes it or not. I would rather learn and grow to understand what is mis-understood. I don't want a society where people avoid the issues out of fear. I don't want a society where people try to be nice on the surface or by semantics. That is not an active solution of understanding our neighbors.

Although as an ethnic minority, I don't speak for everyone in my ethnicity. Has anyone asked minority persons, what they think? I'm sure you'd be surprised by the variety of responses.

If the problem is sensitivity and understanding, don't stop with just words. Are you genuinely sensitive or are you just courteous by words?

[Geetar]

Actually there is. You look for mentally healthy people.

With all due respect, who is the "you" who is going to be the arbiter of "mentally healthy"?

A KKK member?
A Democrat?
Friedrich Hayek?
A transvestite?
A Republican?
Malcolm X
An experimental psychologist?
An evangelical Christian?
A buddhist?
Richard Dawkins?

etc. etc. etc...........

Half these people routinely call the other half "crazy."And we're ALL part of groups that include folk like the above.

So................

Who has the right to call themselves an arbiter of correct language?

I personally believe that is the heart of the matter. For example, I am politically fairly neutral, I am English, and English is both my Major and my native language. I think I'm sane (and of course, I must be right).

Would you like ME to decide for you what you can say without giving offense........?

Or are YOU going to tell me what I should or should not say ( and therefore, by your own argument, what I should think)......?



Sorry, just found your direction on this a little worrisome.

[Sneeper]

The use of all these politcally corect words has become very annoying. We have a dictionary for a reason. The worst is that "gay" means happy.


Language is defined by use, not by a book. Dictionaries are merely an attempt to take a snapshot of something very fluid.

I guarantee you that if you told some teenager that the movie you saw was gay, 'happy movie' would be the last definition in his or her mind.

[Doctor Q]

Wouldn't be better to have a parent/child day? Not all boys like sports and there are certainly women who like sports and girls!No solution seems ideal to me. Take Your Daughter To Work Day began as a way to give encouragement to girls to think about careers, because boys were already encouraged to do so without a special occasion. But many boys felt left out, so Take Your Son to Work Day and Take Your Son or Daughter to Work Day appeared. Does that make it fair or does that defeat the purpose? I don't know.

[Neserk]

No solution seems ideal to me. Take Your Daughter To Work Day began as a way to give encouragement to girls to think about careers, because boys were already encouraged to do so without a special occasion. But many boys felt left out, so Take Your Son to Work Day and Take Your Son or Daughter to Work Day appeared. Does that make it fair or does that defeat the purpose? I don't know.


Fair is in Pomona.


The only thing that matters is that all people regardless of gender know they have options when they grow up to do whatever they want to do be it full time career and nothing else, career and family, or family only.

[The Muffin Man]

"No offensive, but you're a bloody dumbass." That kind of comment drives me nuts. How can you expect someone not to be offended? Also, "I don't mind gay people as long as they don't try to get with me." Don't flatter yourself. Anyone agree?

[Neserk]

"No offensive, but you're a bloody dumbass." That kind of comment drives me nuts. How can you expect someone not to be offended? Also, "I don't mind gay people as long as they don't try to get with me." Don't flatter yourself. Anyone agree?

yup.. as soon as someone says "nothing personal" or "no offense" I immediately put up the shield!

[Apple Hobo]

"I don't mind gay people as long as they don't try to get with me."

I agree--that's a goofy phrase. Where's the logic in that phrase? Why do people assume gay people are only out to rape random people? I think it would be hilarious if a gay guy said, "I have no problems with heterosexuals...as long as they don't try to do anything with me."

[5300cs]

I hate when people use "basically." "Basically what happened is that he went into..."

Another vote for this one.

"Basically it means..." and then the person launches into a 20 minute explination of something. Irks me to no end :mad:

Unless someone says "Basically, you're F-d" or something like that, then it's OK :)

[recursivejon]

Some things that annoy me are "my bad" instead of "my mistake", I've only ever heard Americans say that. Another one that annoys me is "near miss", which implies "nearly missed", even though it's used as "nearly hit".

It's worse when they make a mistake and simply said "just kidding" as if it were intentional.

That always makes me want to decapitate people.

[Doctor Q]

Car salesman: "I'm ready to accept your offer. Wait here while I OK it with the manager."

Translation: "I'll let you sit here and worry while I have a cup of coffee in the back room. Then I'll come back and tell you the manager says we can only sell it for $650 more than you offered."