CNN Video Article on a Student that can't afford college anymore.

[bbotte]

http://www.cnn.com/video/?JSONLINK=/video/us/2009/02/23/am.carroll.broke.students.cnn

"Oh I can't afford my tuition", but she's typing on some type of MacBook, and if you look in the segment where she is eating lunch, you see her AT&T iPhone on the table. That bill is cheap. :rolleyes:

I mean seriously, if you can't get a loan and you have this stuff and your schooling is a priority, it's time to cut some corners, drop the iPhone, sell your MacBook for your school money, clearly it's not that important.

Disgusting, what kids these days think they "NEED" to go to school is dumb.

[Demosthenes X]

I mean seriously, if you can't get a loan and you have this stuff and your schooling is a priority, it's time to cut some corners, drop the iPhone, sell your MacBook for your school money, clearly it's not that important.

Yeah, $400 profit she'll make from selling her used MacBook and buying a cheap Windows PC will really make a dent in her tuition costs. I don't know about the US, but my tuition is $500 per class... so if I sold my MacBook and bought a netbook, I might have enough to pay for one class. Sweet!

And if you think a college student doesn't need a laptop, then you're just deluding yourself.

The iPhone is another story...

[bbotte]

Yeah, $400 profit she'll make from selling her used MacBook and buying a cheap Windows PC will really make a dent in her tuition costs. I don't know about the US, but my tuition is $500 per class... so if I sold my MacBook and bought a netbook, I might have enough to pay for one class. Sweet!

And if you think a college student doesn't need a laptop, then you're just deluding yourself.

The iPhone is another story...

I'm deluding myself? Every college campus I have attended and visited, has computer labs, you do not "need" a laptop. It's a convenient item. I did all my computer work in a lab for my college education, sucks you have to go to one but I did it. Never owned a laptop until I could "Afford" one. So she could sell it and pay for a couple of classes by your math. And it's not profit, it frees up cash to pay for school. The iPhone is laughable. You prove my point, thank you.

[wvuwhat]

I've been through 7 semesters at an out of state public school (W.V.U.). I'll be getting my B.A. in Communication Studies. By the time I'm done, I will have paid more than 80,000 in tuition/room/board from the school, an additional 650/month for my apartment for the past 3 years, and countless daily expenses. Cutting a 30 dollar data plan on an iPhone is small potatoes. The MacBook could have been a gift from a rich family member. I'm just saying, that 1500 total purchase price for the two Apple products isn't even enough money to pay for a 3 credit class for me.

[bbotte]

I've been through 7 semesters at an out of state public school (W.V.U.). I'll be getting my B.A. in Communication Studies. By the time I'm done, I will have paid more than 80,000 in tuition/room/board from the school, an additional 650/month for my apartment for the past 3 years, and countless daily expenses. Cutting a 30 dollar data plan on an iPhone is small potatoes. The MacBook could have been a gift from a rich family member. I'm just saying, that 1500 total purchase price for the two Apple products isn't even enough money to pay for a 3 credit class for me.

Oh I fully understand the cost of an education, my point is do everything before going on the news complaining about money. I'm sure the big wigs at GM can't function without their private jets. This to me is the same situation as showing up to congress with your hand out to the public and using those jets as they did to get to DC.

[jknight8907]

I really have to agree with the argument to keep the Macbook. The benefits it gives you as far as ease of completing assignments, research, etc, far outweighs the drop in the bucket of help that selling it would get you. It would be like selling your microwave so you could buy a car.

[eldy]

It's sad but not everyone can go to college. If you are determined enough you can start out at a community college to get GEs out of the way or take a year or two off to save up. It might even help the porn industry. :)

[Rapmastac1]

It's sad but not everyone can go to college. If you are determined enough you can start out at a community college to get GEs out of the way or take a year or two off to save up. It might even help the porn industry. :)

Exactly, not all of us are in the situation where we can go to College. I live with my grandparents and have had to help out for a long time! I was never able to really go above and beyond at school but it did ok. Starting out at a Community college to get a minor degree and getting a job with that to make more money. Then you go to a full-on college and get a good degree.

I have been out of high school for about a year now and don't plan on going to college for one more year, my finances aren't in line to allow me to get to school now. I have some nice things, yes, but I'm still saving for 6 months worth of take-home pay before I take on school.

But saying you can't afford such when you have an iPhone and stuff - ridiculous! Sacrifice a little bit, they are already in school - they better not screw it up now just because they want their precious iPhone!

[Zombie Acorn]

One year of her tuition is about the same as what it cost me to go 3 years at my college, I am not shedding a tear here.

Syracuse University

Tuition: $33,630
Housing and Meals (average costs): $13,066
Fees (Health, Activity, Cocurricular, and Communication): $1,298

Total: $47,994

Other Expenses (average)
Books and Supplies (est.): $1,306
Personal expenses (est.): $892
Transportation (est.): $600

Total: $2,798
Total Cost of Attendance: $50,792


GO TO A CHEAPER COLLEGE IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT! :rolleyes:

[Abstract]

I agree about cutting corners, but the MacBook makes sense.



The iPhone....well..........that's just over-the-top. Many grown adults working in the real world can't afford an iPhone, but are perfectly happy with a really pedestrian mobile.

[Zombie Acorn]

I agree about cutting corners, but the MacBook makes sense.



The iPhone....well..........that's just over-the-top. Many grown adults working in the real world can't afford an iPhone, but are perfectly happy with a really pedestrian mobile.

The iPhone and macbook are pebbles when compared to what these people are paying in tuition, by the prices on syracuse site you would graduate with an undergraduate degree with 200k debt.

[chewietobbacca]

The point is that every bit adds up, and an iPhone subscription isn't small money when you consider that it can pay for 2 years of GE's at a CC

Either way though, she's in the wrong kind of university if she's worried about money

[raggedjimmi]

I'm deluding myself? Every college campus I have attended and visited, has computer labs, you do not "need" a laptop. It's a convenient item. I did all my computer work in a lab for my college education, sucks you have to go to one but I did it. Never owned a laptop until I could "Afford" one. So she could sell it and pay for a couple of classes by your math. And it's not profit, it frees up cash to pay for school. The iPhone is laughable. You prove my point, thank you.

I completely agree. Everyone on my first university course had a laptop of some sort, not many had them at my second university. It was only me at college who had a laptop (IBM Thinkpad, no less :)). Everyone else got distinctions just fine.

Around here many students who still live at home just get student loans to buy gizmos for personal use. I'd hardly say a 42" LCD TV counts as an educational item, or upgrading from an old Xbox 360 to a new Elite model. But it's up to them, they're going to be paying this back a few years down the line, not me.

It's all just part of the entitlement culture we have now.

[63dot]

[url]

Disgusting, what kids these days think they "NEED" to go to school is dumb.

When I entered college at 16, tuition was free. Now I am 45 and doing some grad work for second career and it's over $700 per unit. School has become expensive and my school is considered cheap compared to other mid-tier private colleges. Top tier private schools are $1800 per unit first year with minimal dorm room and what is barely required for food. Our dorms had a cafeteria we called vomit gardens.

[Demosthenes X]

I'm deluding myself? Every college campus I have attended and visited, has computer labs, you do not "need" a laptop. It's a convenient item. I did all my computer work in a lab for my college education, sucks you have to go to one but I did it. Never owned a laptop until I could "Afford" one. So she could sell it and pay for a couple of classes by your math. And it's not profit, it frees up cash to pay for school. The iPhone is laughable. You prove my point, thank you.

And of course, it's always so easy to find a free computer on campus. Not to mention comfortable. And of course buildings are always open and defer to your scheduling needs. And naturally you can pick up one of those computers and take it to class when you need too.

:rolleyes:

Sorry - as a college student, I'll give you that a notebook is not strictly necessary, no. But it is every bit a worthwhile investment in one's education. In this student's case, the freedom afforded to her by having her own computer is worth more than the ~$800 she might be able to get if she sold her MacBook.

Seriously: so much university work is done on computers these days that having a personal computer is nearly a necessity. Yes, you can get away without one, but your life will be far, far easier if you have your own computer.

[raggedjimmi]

Did personal desktop computers disappear?

[mkrishnan]

And of course, it's always so easy to find a free computer on campus. [...]

I tend to agree, although the general point that, if one wants a spokesperson for the unaffordability of college, a spokesperson who doesn't flaunt any expensive accessories would probably be the best choice.

But wholly aside from that is the issue of rising college costs. Costs at many (if not all) Universities have vastly outpaced inflation. Students' parents can't even afford their tuition, let alone the students themselves. And even if you cite the lower cost small state schools and community colleges, they don't have room to handle all the people who go to large universities were they to be displaced.

I think this is a serious issue, particularly for students who study societally valuable but not very lucrative fields. And the accessibility of the University system to our citizens is in no way like the automotive industry and their jets. If the domestic automakers perish, I firmly believe it will be a bad thing, and that it will have downstream, longterm impacts on American affluence for millions of people.

But if American citizens can't get a college education... our country just can't function like that. Americans must have access to college. Barring a radical re-engineering of the entire nation and our economy, there simply is no reasonable alternative to this.

[.Andy]

Are we sure that the macbook and the iPhone are hers? Or is this just an assumption that is being made for the purpose of argument?

/didn't watch the video.

[EricNau]

I'm deluding myself? Every college campus I have attended and visited, has computer labs, you do not "need" a laptop. It's a convenient item.
Times have apparently changed. As just one example (http://computerownership.ucdavis.edu/):
"UC Davis expects students to have their own personal computers."


The iPhone, while admittedly a luxury item, is minute compared to the costs of tuition.


Are we sure that the macbook and the iPhone are hers? Or is this just an assumption that is being made for the purpose of argument?

/didn't watch the video.
It's pretty obvious. She uses the MacBook and the iPhone is sitting right in front of her at the lunch table.

[MikhailT]

Is it not possible that those devices were gift to her?
I know a lot of students were given laptops as gifts from family and friends. There are parents who is willing to spend their money on iphone for 200$ and pay only 30 a month for it on a family plan.

Either way, the computer labs are not 24/7 operations everywhere in the country. Nor do they always have empty seats for you to use at any time. Before i graduated from my university, there were classes that was using the OPEN computer labs, that resulted less open hours for the students and the only 24/7 lab was in the library that's always full.

Colleges around the country are increasing tuition rates faster than inflation rates, not only that, the prices on the books for courses are frigging out of the world. Those publishers are ripping off students, period and the instructors are not helping at all. They would publish 2009 edition with CDroms and claim that it is enough to justify the 300$ price for a physics book that has not changed in content except for PAGE NUMBERS AND CHAPTERS from the 2008 edition and even the 2008 was only 200$.

I was lucky enough to get scholarships and college work program to pay off my degree and graduated with no debts. Not everybody is going to get scholarships or find a job within college and not everybody could do full time with a part time job.

Oh yea, don't tell me that people who can't afford to go to a good college should find CHEAPER college. What you pay is what you get counts for most of the time when it comes to the quality of the college education.
Cheaper colleges usually do not have computer labs, nor enough tutors, open hours for instructors, supplies and lab equipments.. so on. In some cases, the quality of the college is not going to be worth the investment you make for yourself in the long term.

Education is important and should be accessible for anybody who chooses to go. (In my opinion? College education should be free for everybody but that's socialism or commie or whatever you guys want to call it)

[63dot]

Education is important and should be accessible for anybody who chooses to go. (In my opinion? College education should be free for everybody but that's socialism or commie or whatever you guys want to call it)

With CEOs from Obama's stimulus package to likely still receive millions, and Bush having spent hundreds of billions on a war on false pretenses, money spent on education for our American youth actually sounds like like a good idea by comparison. Cost-benefit. Money for education is an idea that should have been looked into long ago and is not frivolous like CEO over-compensation or chasing after WMDs in Iraq.

[Zombie Acorn]

Is it not possible that those devices were gift to her?
I know a lot of students were given laptops as gifts from family and friends. There are parents who is willing to spend their money on iphone for 200$ and pay only 30 a month for it on a family plan.

Either way, the computer labs are not 24/7 operations everywhere in the country. Nor do they always have empty seats for you to use at any time. Before i graduated from my university, there were classes that was using the OPEN computer labs, that resulted less open hours for the students and the only 24/7 lab was in the library that's always full.

Colleges around the country are increasing tuition rates faster than inflation rates, not only that, the prices on the books for courses are frigging out of the world. Those publishers are ripping off students, period and the instructors are not helping at all. They would publish 2009 edition with CDroms and claim that it is enough to justify the 300$ price for a physics book that has not changed in content except for PAGE NUMBERS AND CHAPTERS from the 2008 edition and even the 2008 was only 200$.

I was lucky enough to get scholarships and college work program to pay off my degree and graduated with no debts. Not everybody is going to get scholarships or find a job within college and not everybody could do full time with a part time job.

Oh yea, don't tell me that people who can't afford to go to a good college should find CHEAPER college. What you pay is what you get counts for most of the time when it comes to the quality of the college education.
Cheaper colleges usually do not have computer labs, nor enough tutors, open hours for instructors, supplies and lab equipments.. so on. In some cases, the quality of the college is not going to be worth the investment you make for yourself in the long term.

Education is important and should be accessible for anybody who chooses to go. (In my opinion? College education should be free for everybody but that's socialism or commie or whatever you guys want to call it)

If you socialize the education system you will destroy it. Money attracts high profile professionals and professors to big league schools. We simply need to make sure that our best students and not just our richest are making it to these schools.

[SteveMobs]

Stop going to a private university like syracuse, go to a public university or community college. Stop having an iPhone, I mean, seriously?! No one can b*tch and moan about bills if they have an iPhone. Apply for scholarships, stop going out to lunch, cook for yourself. Live at home.

I feel there are plenty of avenues to take.

[MikhailT]

If you socialize the education system you will destroy it. Money attracts high profile professionals and professors to big league schools. We simply need to make sure that our best students and not just our richest are making it to these schools.

Destroy it how exactly?

[Zombie Acorn]

Destroy it how exactly?

Inefficiency and disregard for economic principles. The reason tuition raises higher than inflation every year is because demand is higher than ever. Look at our public school system, it is abysmal compared to the US's college front.

[robanga]

The Army, Navy and Marines are actively hiring.

...She might have to give up her iPhone for basic training though.

[MikhailT]

Inefficiency and disregard for economic principles. The reason tuition raises higher than inflation every year is because demand is higher than ever. Look at our public school system, it is abysmal compared to the US's college front.

Public school system is abysmal? Yea, so why isn't anybody doing anything about the public school system? We have no problem paying $500 billion dollars on our defense but yet we can't increase the budget for our education. Have you seen the average pay for a public school teacher? There are reasons for the inefficiency and disregard for economic principles, it is not because of socialization, it is purely because our government is not paying attention to this problem and nobody is doing anything about it. If we provide the funding, those schools would do just fine.

[Zombie Acorn]

Public school system is abysmal? Yea, so why isn't anybody doing anything about the public school system? We have no problem paying $500 billion dollars on our defense but yet we can't increase the budget for our education. Have you seen the average pay for a public school teacher? There are reasons for the inefficiency and disregard for economic principles, it is not because of socialization, it is purely because our government is not paying attention to this problem and nobody is doing anything about it. If we provide the funding, those schools would do just fine.

The same problems you see in the public school systems is what you would see in college systems if you allow the government to run them and cap expenditures for students so that everyone can go. You will have professors getting crap pay and classes that are overfilled which will mean you won't get the best professors, in fact the professors will probably be working in the private sector instead because they can make more money. The government isn't the answer to every question.

I love how everyone thinks education is so important until it comes time to pony up some cash, personally I would rather not trust the government with the education of my child, if I do have one I will send them to private school no matter what the cost is.

[MikhailT]

The same problems you see in the public school systems is what you would see in college systems if you allow the government to run them and cap expenditures for students so that everyone can go. You will have professors getting crap pay and classes that are overfilled which will mean you won't get the best professors, in fact the professors will probably be working in the private sector instead because they can make more money. The government isn't the answer to every question.

I love how everyone thinks education is so important until it comes time to pony up some cash, personally I would rather not trust the government with the education of my child, if I do have one I will send them to private school no matter what the cost is.

Whoa wait, I see what you're talking about and let me clear something up.

Letting the government run the universities are not what i meant. That will never work. I meant that the students should not pay for the schools. Let the government pick up the tab and the students should be allowed to go anywhere they choose. (to certain limits of course, the rich students over certain family income should pony up, poorest students should not pay a cent)


The universities right now are competitive just like the market and are trying to get the best students they could but many of their choice won't work because some but not most can't afford the tuition even AFTER the federal grants, scholarships and so on because the rates are going up so fast that the government support is not catching up. The universities themselves are starting to run out of the funds for all the scholarships for the neediest students.

The federal pell grants have not kept up with the tuition rates over the past decade.

My point was that the government should be increasing pell grant support for those students to the point that most of the poorest students can afford to go to the best schools they can go to.

As for the public school, the funding should be increased for those schools. Look at all the budget cuts that are happening all over the country. They are cutting out Music, Art, Computers and so on because they can't afford those supplies.

[63dot]

Stop going to a private university like syracuse, go to a public university or community college. Stop having an iPhone, I mean, seriously?! No one can b*tch and moan about bills if they have an iPhone. Apply for scholarships, stop going out to lunch, cook for yourself. Live at home.

I feel there are plenty of avenues to take.

In the case of a private university until completion?, well, there is SUNY and that's what she may need to do. But I do wish the grant/loan situation were not so bad that all 12 rejected her. What's going on there? She seems to fulfill some aspects of having a need. She's not working 3 jobs just for kicks.

[Abstract]

The iPhone and macbook are pebbles when compared to what these people are paying in tuition, by the prices on syracuse site you would graduate with an undergraduate degree with 200k debt.

You can say that about nearly every common expense for a student. So when do you start cutting costs in a way to live comfortably, but not extravagantly? :confused:

If she can't make the money to pay for all of this, then she should start "making money" by not spending it unwisely. 'A penny saved is a penny earned', and I believe this is an American saying. To me, an iPhone is extravagant for someone who knows how much their education costs, and know how much her debt will be. I'd say the same thing if she bought $4 dessert coffees at Starbucks semi-regularly at lunch.


If you really believe that a person who's going to accumulate a large debt shouldn't bother saving on (relatively) small costs just because they're small, then perhaps this is the type of thinking that's wrong with our culture of living on credit cards and debt.

These "small" individual expenses add up.

Stop going to a private university like syracuse, go to a public university or community college. Stop having an iPhone, I mean, seriously?! No one can b*tch and moan about bills if they have an iPhone. Apply for scholarships, stop going out to lunch, cook for yourself. Live at home.

I feel there are plenty of avenues to take.

Agreed.

[Zombie Acorn]

Whoa wait, I see what you're talking about and let me clear something up.

Letting the government run the universities are not what i meant. That will never work. I meant that the students should not pay for the schools. Let the government pick up the tab and the students should be allowed to go anywhere they choose. (to certain limits of course, the rich students over certain family income should pony up, poorest students should not pay a cent)


The universities right now are competitive just like the market and are trying to get the best students they could but many of their choice won't work because some but not most can't afford the tuition even AFTER the federal grants, scholarships and so on because the rates are going up so fast that the government support is not catching up. The universities themselves are starting to run out of the funds for all the scholarships for the neediest students.

The federal pell grants have not kept up with the tuition rates over the past decade.

My point was that the government should be increasing pell grant support for those students to the point that most of the poorest students can afford to go to the best schools they can go to.

As for the public school, the funding should be increased for those schools. Look at all the budget cuts that are happening all over the country. They are cutting out Music, Art, Computers and so on because they can't afford those supplies.

My parents made enough money that I wasn't eligible for a pell grant, guess how much money I received from my parents.... 0. I don't know why there is a determination by your parents income on whether you are eligible, they most likely pay MORE taxes than the poor families and receive less benefit. In my case I was a poor mofo for 5 years with no parental or government assistance (Sallie Mae basically took an arm and an eye for my tuition instead).

The pell grant system is screwed in my mind. The problem with wanting to increase the grants is that universities will inflate their tuition to meet the new government handouts. It happens everytime the government raises the amounts.

Overall I agree with you in principle, if it would actually work and universities weren't going to be greedy. I just don't think it will end up working the way we want in the end if the government just hands out more money. As long as kids are willing to pay 50k a year to go to school universities will continue to raise their rates.

[Sun Baked]

Should check into the programs offered around her, in KY UPS and the State have teamed up to offer a program to get people degrees if they agree to work the UPS graveyard shift part-time.
Students in the Metropolitan College Program get a free education at any of the three schools, textbooks, a housing subsidy, and a good-paying job. Benefits include a medical plan and a 401(k) retirement plan. Students are given mentors who provide counseling on issues related to the employee's job, school, and personal life. The student-workers may get their degrees in any subject, are not required to work for UPS when they graduate. Due to the growth of the program, there are many more students enrolled in the Metropolitan College Program than can be accommodated by UPS on a full-time basis upon graduation. As a result, UPS has formed alliances with other Louisville-area companies to create career opportunities in a variety of fields.
I'm not even there and heard about that, where I'm currently at the community college has a narrower program (for underemployed people that can't quite make it) ... but it does help people and the community out by delivering skilled people into the local talent pool.

Just takes some looking around and maybe sucking up to the reality of settling for a lesser school in the area if that is where the local assistance is targeted.

[Zombie Acorn]

You can say that about nearly every common expense for a student. So when do you start cutting costs in a way to live comfortably, but not extravagantly? :confused:

If she can't make the money to pay for all of this, then she should start "making money" by not spending it unwisely. 'A penny saved is a penny earned', and I believe this is an American saying. To me, an iPhone is extravagant for someone who knows how much their education costs, and know how much her debt will be. I'd say the same thing if she bought $4 dessert coffees at Starbucks semi-regularly at lunch.


If you really believe that a person who's going to accumulate a large debt shouldn't bother saving on (relatively) small costs just because they're small, then perhaps this is the type of thinking that's wrong with our culture of living on credit cards and debt.


It is extravagant, but the normal college kid isn't going to make up 50k worth of expenses in a year even if they live like a hobo. She needs to be in a different less costly school if she can't afford it was all that i was saying.

[Zombie Acorn]

Should check into the programs offered around her, in KY UPS and the State have teamed up to offer a program to get people degrees if they agree to work the UPS graveyard shift part-time.

I'm not even there and heard about that, where I'm currently at the community college has a narrower program (for underemployed people that can't quite make it) ... but it does help people and the community out by delivering skilled people into the local talent pool.

Just takes some looking around and maybe sucking up to the reality of settling for a lesser school in the area if that is where the local assistance is targeted.

That is one hell of a deal, I would have jumped on that in an instant.

[Sun Baked]

That is one hell of a deal, I would have jumped on that in an instant.

Would have done it myself if was offered when I went to school.

I know quite a few people that worked that sorting table, and also played with the containers there at UPS on snowy days -- bet they would have also loved it.

Sadly the program isn't extremely old.