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View Full Version : Turkish Plane Crash at Amsterdam Schiphol


garybUK
Feb 25, 2009, 06:58 AM
Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7909683.stm

Another!! Plane crash, it's scary.

arkitect
Feb 25, 2009, 07:07 AM
Another!! Plane crash, it's scary.

Not to make light of it… but has there been a recent spate?
Last one I can recall was the Hudson river incident.

Hardly an everyday occurence.
:o

garybUK
Feb 25, 2009, 07:09 AM
Not to make light of it… but has there been a recent spate?
Last one I can recall was the Hudson river incident.

Hardly an everyday occurence.
:o

There was a continental airways crash into a house in or near buffalo state that killed 50 including at least 1 person on the ground. And a downed BP helicopter in the north sea!

So yes, they has been a recent spate

arkitect
Feb 25, 2009, 07:12 AM
There was a continental airways crash into a house in or near buffalo state that killed 50 including at least 1 person on the ground. And a downed BP helicopter in the north sea!

So yes, they has been a recent spate

And I stand corrected. ;)

The earth's core must be slowing down…

garybUK
Feb 25, 2009, 07:28 AM
That or the sun is dying maybe we should build ships to start a thermo-nuclear reaction to start the sun again ;)

Edit: okay that sounds like a film i saw recently....

arkitect
Feb 25, 2009, 07:35 AM
That or the sun is dying maybe we should build ships to start a thermo-nuclear reaction to start the sun again ;)

Edit: okay that sounds like a film i saw recently....

Nice soundtrack… just a pity the storyline went all psycho towards the end…

Stampyhead
Feb 25, 2009, 07:46 AM
That or the sun is dying maybe we should build ships to start a thermo-nuclear reaction to start the sun again ;)

Edit: okay that sounds like a film i saw recently....

Which film was that? It sounds cool.

arkitect
Feb 25, 2009, 07:49 AM
Which film was that? It sounds cool.

Sunshine (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/)… I think.
:o

My first thought was The Core (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298814/)

garybUK
Feb 25, 2009, 07:53 AM
It's called Sunshine, not fantastic but not bad either.

oblomow
Feb 25, 2009, 12:47 PM
A dutch website has photo's (http://www.nufoto.nl/onderwerpen/vliegtuigcrash-schiphol/) taken by people that were nearby.

mkrishnan
Feb 25, 2009, 12:52 PM
And I stand corrected. ;)

The two US airliner crashes were particularly notable because the last fatality had occurred some 2.5 years ago, prior to the Buffalo crash. What is the major airliner fatality rate like in Europe? Have there been accidents with associated fatalities more recently there than the one that happened in ... 2006? in the US?

dmr727
Feb 25, 2009, 04:42 PM
What is the major airliner fatality rate like in Europe? Have there been accidents with associated fatalities more recently there than the one that happened in ... 2006? in the US?

Judging airline safety isn't an exact science, so like all statistics take this with a grain of salt, but check this out - it might have a couple of answers for you:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/rates.htm

The problem is (this is actually a good thing) - flying is generally so safe that the accident data set for the better airlines is really too small to be all that meaningful.

mkrishnan
Feb 25, 2009, 05:20 PM
So basically, there isn't any evidence that particularly more crashes happen in Europe than in North America, right? What I had been kind of looking for was a last fatality date like the one provided in the US articles.

How sad in any event that more people lost their lives. I hope that, if there is a systematic issue that's going on that's causing more crashes, a la some of the ones hypothesized in the last thread, that we can figure out what it is and reduce it.

dmr727
Feb 25, 2009, 06:19 PM
So basically, there isn't any evidence that particularly more crashes happen in Europe than in North America, right?

Yeah, I don't think the evidence really points to that. There are some airlines that statistically aren't so safe that fall under the European umbrella (such as Aeroflot), but on the whole I'd guess it's reasonably even.

As far as systematic safety issues - it's sometimes tough to prove. For example I look at the 2006 Comair accident in Kentucky, and I don't really know what systematically could have been done to prevent it. The media made a big deal about the construction being done on the taxiways and the nonstandard markings, the outdated charts that didn't reflect the construction, and the tower being understaffed - but at the end of the day you had two pilots that simply made a huge, huge mistake. The media loves to pin disasters on 'the system' because it makes for better news, but sometimes you just have a case of humans screwing up, and especially in aviation, people can get killed as a result.

That said, I'm not trying to dismiss systematic safety issues altogether - Captain Sully made a pretty good point about how the job isn't what it used to be. Pay and quality of life for an airline pilot is not all that great these days, and as a result you're attracting a lower class of pilot to the job. The same thing is happening to Air Traffic Controllers (in the US, at least). Also, with airline profits as thin as they are, everyone is riding a knife edge between being efficient and staying safe. It's definitely an interesting situation.

garybUK
Feb 26, 2009, 04:19 AM
I have flown a lot, Quantas was statistically the best Airline (iirc), and i've flown Continental.... they are scary!!!!!! they felt the most unsafe.

dmr727
Feb 26, 2009, 11:14 AM
and i've flown Continental.... they are scary!!!!!! they felt the most unsafe.

I'm curious - what about them made you feel unsafe? Don't get me wrong - I'm not questioning your feelings - but these kinds of things are interesting (and helpful!) to me.

bradl
Feb 26, 2009, 11:29 AM
Of course, LiveATC.net is on the scene before any of the news outlets! We happen to have 2 feeds for EHAM, both of which caught this.

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/turkish-airlines-1951-feb-25-2009/

Remember, registration to the forum is required to listen to the clips.

BL.

garybUK
Feb 26, 2009, 11:50 AM
I'm curious - what about them made you feel unsafe? Don't get me wrong - I'm not questioning your feelings - but these kinds of things are interesting (and helpful!) to me.

The planes i have flown on (trans atlantic) were really old boeing 737's that are frankly falling apart, (i don't like boeing aircraft anyway). The staff are very rude and the ride is ALWAYS bumpy. Hell you don't even get a tv screen they are the old drop down CRT screens